var json_comments = new Array("
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komodork
March 4, 2010 6:43 PM
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Don't you need a credit card to get a movie from this rental machine? I mean, if you are paying cash, whats stops you from returning the disk? Unless you parents are giving your children credit cards, then there is something wrong here.

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3 replies
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nakkypoo
March 4, 2010 6:51 PM
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Prepaid debit cards don't usually have a billing address, which I believe at least Redbox requires. No billing address means the card would get declined.

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notovny
March 4, 2010 6:49 PM
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Hmm. I'm seeing now that the Prepaid Debit Card must be registered to an address to be used in a Redbox Kiosk, to agree with the requested zip code.

Objection withdrawn, your witness.

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ChemicallyInert
March 4, 2010 9:54 PM
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I've found that you can use any address. I think the zip code is all that has to match.

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Puckstopperga
March 4, 2010 7:29 PM
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So technically if little Bobby wanted to buy pornography over the internet, all he'd have to do is go buy a prepaid debit card and register a billing zip code.

Can anyone of any age get a prepaid debit card?

If so, it's not just redbox that fails to check age, as, from what I understand, simply having a debit card IS age verification for other entities.

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stinerman
March 4, 2010 10:32 PM
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LOL

\"Buy pornography\"

With the amount of free and pirated stuff out there, I don't think you need access to money to watch porno.

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ShruggingGalt
March 4, 2010 10:20 PM
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Yes, ask the Jackson family on how a minor was able to buy a stun gun.

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morlo
March 4, 2010 7:48 PM
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This prosecutor should be disbarred and imprisoned for corruption.

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nakkypoo
March 4, 2010 6:44 PM
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Ahh yes, all those impressionable youths with credit cards are at severe risk due to Redbox kiosks.

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2 replies
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subsider34
March 5, 2010 1:58 AM
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Especially with the new CARD Act restrictions on people under 21 getting a credit card.

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travel_nut
March 5, 2010 5:12 PM
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Wait, what?! I'm 20 and I have a credit card...but it was opened when I was 18. Does the CARD act really restrict me from getting another card until I'm 21? Not that I want to, just curious.

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NatalieErin
March 5, 2010 11:44 PM
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You're not barred completely from getting a credit card if you're under 21, but you need a co-signer or to show the ability to repay.

Chances are you'll be grandfathered in anyway. That's what happened when the drinking age went up to 21.

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Shonky McShonk
March 4, 2010 6:45 PM
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Isn't knowing what kids watch a parent's job?

And don't those machines require a credit or debit card?

Are southern indiana middle-schoolers rollin' like that?

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3 replies
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Starfury
March 5, 2010 11:03 AM
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Knowing what your kids watch IS a parent's job. And I do know what my kids watch and I also restrict what they watch on TV/DVD/Computer.

Unlike my friend who lets his kid watch most anything and play some violent video games I wouldn't play.

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Dropzone56_rockingout
March 5, 2010 3:27 AM
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Last time I was in the area, no. Now that was about 12 years ago though. So maybe the area has improved some.

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outsmartbullet
March 4, 2010 6:45 PM
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Well, if that doesn't represent a government official putting chilling pressure on speech, I don't know what does. sounds like Vanderburgh County Prosecutor Stanley Levco needs a kick in the ass.

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7 replies
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Griking
March 4, 2010 9:45 PM
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What are you talking about? There are already laws in place that prohibit children from going to the movies to see R rated movies. This is just a case of laws catching up with technology.

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sqlrob
March 5, 2010 12:16 PM
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No there aren't.

There are Zero, zip, nada laws that prevent a minor from going to an R movie. It's all theater and store policy.

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HogwartsProfessor
March 5, 2010 11:13 AM
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They can still go; they have to be accompanied by an adult. That explains why I have to listen to a three-year-old crying during an R-rated film.

It SHOULD be that they can't get in at all, but Entitlement twits would protest because they wouldn't be able to drag their kids everywhere they go, even when it's inappropriate for them.

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dadelus
June 8, 2010 10:26 AM
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That's why I love the theater near me. It's a 29 screen theater and 4 or 5 of those have a rule that noone under 21 is allowed parent or no parent. Even when the screen is showing a kid friendly film like Shrek. It's worth the extra 5 or so dollars per ticket to know you won't have to deal with rugrats while watching a film. Plus the leather recliners are SOOOO comfy.

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tubedogg
March 5, 2010 1:36 AM
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Which laws would those be? The MPAA rating system is voluntarily enforced by the movie industry. (Granted, it's voluntarily enforced under the threat of governmentally-mandated enforcement, but at the moment it's voluntary nonetheless.)

See http://www.bigscreen.com/MPAA_RatingsInfo.php#RatingLaw

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ArcanaJ
March 4, 2010 11:32 PM
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\"This is just a case of laws catching up with technology.\"

The vending machine was invented in in the 19th century. With progress like that the law won't discover the horseless carriage until we're all wearing rocket packs.

Sounds to me like a certain southern Indiana prosecutor is gearing up to run for office and this is a stunt to get him some name recognition.

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Smashville
March 5, 2010 9:15 AM
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More like {{subst:uw-error2|subst=subst:}} - ~~~~

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NatalieErin
March 5, 2010 11:51 PM
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I'm mildly embarrassed that I laughed at that.

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Keavy_Rain
March 4, 2010 7:32 PM
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If that kick knocks him to the unemployment line, I'm all for it.

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Kuchen
March 4, 2010 6:46 PM
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As someone who lived the first 20+ years of my life in Indiana and was once carded for a PG-13 movie (I think I was 18 at the time), this feels very \"Hoosier\" to me.

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xnihilx
March 5, 2010 9:21 AM
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Ditto. It seems like about every five or so years here someone somewhere in the state has a hissy about 'impressionable children seeing PG-13 or R rated movies.

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Thyme
March 4, 2010 6:47 PM
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Ridiculous.

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pecan 3.14159265
March 4, 2010 6:49 PM
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The \"system\" is woefully ridiculous. When I was 14, I could walk into Blockbuster and grab any rated-R movie off the shelf. I never got carded, and I was obviously not 18. Years later, I remember when I was actually approaching 18 and someone actually carded me.

Now, whenever I go into a rated-R movie at the theater, I get carded! Kids will see these movies whether they do it at their friends' house, or their parents rent it and aren't very good about hiding them.

And sometimes it has nothing to do with parental responsibility because kids are devious little bastards. They'll find a way. I should know! I saw The Exorcist when I was 8.

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Conformist138
March 5, 2010 7:13 AM
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I grew up with religious parents who wouldn't let us buy/rent anything over G for a long time and for quite a while we didn't even have TV in our house. My friends from a similarly religious family and I all watched Throw Mama From The Train when we were 10. This is just another example of wanting to think kids need to be protected from any and all things not made just for them. If they had their way, our public spaces would just be Sesame Street replicas. The odds of a kid being derailed for life because they viewed an R-rated movie is slim-to-none, for a PG movie, that goes straight to my uncontrolled laughter at thinking Shrek may be responsible for some kid in a psych ward or jail.

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HogwartsProfessor
March 5, 2010 11:16 AM
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I agree with you; however, young children do not need to do the same things adults do. There are a lot of things that they just don't need to be watching.

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drburk
March 5, 2010 6:51 AM
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You didn't get carded because you parents allowed you to rent mature movies when the set the account up. When my sister was 17 she still couldn't rent r rated movies because my parent's never allowed her on the account.

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pecan 3.14159265
March 5, 2010 8:27 AM
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Blockbuster made a big fuss about not renting movies to underage kids. If that was their policy, they should have kept to it.

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Griking
March 4, 2010 9:48 PM
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Children can get cigarettes and booze from their friends while at their houses so it must be equally ridiculous that there are laws preventing children from purchasing tobacco and alcohol in stores then huh?

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sqlrob
March 5, 2010 12:18 PM
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And you can point to the documented, direct harm of movies?

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pecan 3.14159265
March 4, 2010 10:14 PM
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It's not like restricting alcohol and tobacco at all. Most movies rated PG are meant for kids!

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The Cynical Librarian
March 4, 2010 9:04 PM
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Reminds me of when I was underage and went to watch Dogma the weekend it came out in 1997. When we got carded at the desk, I simply told the clerk that I was my friends date. Evidently this was plenty of age verification for this guy.
Needless to say the movie was good.

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Etoiles
March 5, 2010 8:48 AM
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I was on a date to see Shakespeare in Love when it came out. I was of-age but my boyfriend was not. It's the only time I've ever been carded at a movie, but they just assumed that the guy had to be older than I was. Nice.

After all, don't want those kids getting any of that there culture!

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pecan 3.14159265
March 5, 2010 10:08 AM
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I hope kids don't see \"Shakespeare in Love\" and think it was accurate. Then again, I don't think anyone wants to be reminded of how rare personal hygiene was during that time. No, the men did not look like Joseph Fiennes.

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Bohemian
March 4, 2010 7:17 PM
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Showtime, Cinemax, HBO. Kids can watch all the non G rated movies they want if the TV isn't code locked or locked with a PIN number.

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pecan 3.14159265
March 4, 2010 7:34 PM
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One time I sneaked downstairs in the middle of the night to watch TV. I realized very quickly that Showtime at 3 am was adequate punishment enough for sneaking downstairs.

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Postal
March 5, 2010 12:36 PM
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Might be \"punishment\" for a girl, but for 10 year old boys, the 2am shows were... an education. :D

OT: Pecan Pi is now a pecan muffin???

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MikeF74
March 4, 2010 6:51 PM
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If this logic held true, there would be no adult websites. Just because a child might now how to use a credit card, doesn't mean everything in the world has to be child appropriate.

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ForestGrump
March 4, 2010 6:52 PM
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Should be a non-issue. Redbox policy is 18+ to rent movies.

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pantheonoutcast
March 4, 2010 6:53 PM
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Kids don't have parents in Indiana? Sad...

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2 replies
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Sumtron5000
March 5, 2010 9:49 AM
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You'd think the overwhelming orphan problem would be the bigger concern!

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pantheonoutcast
March 4, 2010 6:53 PM
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Kids don't have parents in Indiana? Sad...

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zigziggityzoo
March 4, 2010 7:04 PM
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When was the last time you saw a sub-13 year old with a credit card?

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4 replies
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dvddesign
March 5, 2010 12:01 PM
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I had an ATM card at 12 for my checking account. It wasn't a \"debit card\" since they didn't have those at the time, but I was card abled at 12 and when I got my first debit card at 18, it was simply because I didn't know they had upgraded the system until then.

Granted, since parents have to cosign on a checking account they can block a kid getting a debit card, but most parents won't mind since cash isn't a highly traded currency anymore like plastic.

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Elphaba
March 5, 2010 12:00 AM
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I've given my card to my friend's daughter to go rent the movie from redbox. It made her feel special. Course, I told her if she came back with something R rated it was going right back.

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Eyeheartpie
March 4, 2010 10:24 PM
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I had one when I was 11. My mom trusted me enough to put me on her discover card account.

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ArcanaJ
March 4, 2010 11:35 PM
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Yes, but did you buy porn with it? And if you did, why weren't the rest of us invited? Remember, it's important to share.

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ap0
March 4, 2010 7:05 PM
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Kids these days are savvy enough to get their R-rated content from all sorts of \"free\" online sources. They don't need friggin' RedBox.

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pixiegirl
March 4, 2010 7:07 PM
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It's redbox's fault that your kid watched a rated R movie?! Where the hell where the parents when they are watching these \"live damaging\" movies, seriously. This is a overreaction in my opinion. I don't see the problem with a underage kid watching a pg-13 movie or a rated R movie with in reason. I say with in reason because I wouldn't let a real little kid watch anything too gory or sexual. Besides You need to have a credit card or a debit card to pay for the movies, how dose someone under 18 get a credit or debit card? If they got it from their parents then I place blame on the parents. If a kid has a debit card then they have to have some source of income(a job), if that's the case I think that they are mature enough to work then they are mature enough watch a rated R movie.

On a side note I only have redbox where i live i've never seen any moviecubes and was surprised that they offer porn. The thought of renting a porn and returning it is kind of grosses me out. I'd be leery of renting anything from a moviecube fearing that my non porn dvd touched a case of a porn dvd. I didn't think anyone rented porn anymore ever since the internet became popular.

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dancing_bear
March 4, 2010 7:07 PM
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Yes children, Indiana sucks.

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Nick1693
March 4, 2010 7:09 PM
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Why is parenting being legislated?

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5 replies
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dolemite
March 5, 2010 8:33 AM
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I see it more and more these days. Government getting involved with what parents can and can't do.

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Wrathernaut
March 5, 2010 7:37 AM
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Because much like anti-gay legislation brought about by certain politicians who got a DUI on his way home from a gay nightclub, they think that making something illegal will help their self-control.

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HitScan
March 5, 2010 12:35 AM
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Perhaps not everyone read the entire article:

\"Limiting kiosks' selection to only G-rated movies certainly limits their usefulness and relevance, and means that renters will need to turn to brick-and-mortar video stores to rent movies with adult content. We're sure it's just a coincidence that the idea for the prosecutor's action against video kiosks came from an attorney representing the owner of several Indiana video stores.\"

Red Box's popularity is murdering regular rental places. Blockbuster isn't closing another 500 stores this year (just) because of iTunes. Just like most of the other \"Think of the children\" nuisances that come along, this one is about protecting some adult's interest: money.

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DrWebster
March 4, 2010 7:17 PM
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Because, apparently, southern Indiana thinks that parents suck at it too much.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
March 5, 2010 12:19 AM
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If you've been to Southern Indiana, you'd know why ....

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Dropzone56_rockingout
March 5, 2010 3:40 AM
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So true. Sadly in the small town that my father's family is from, renting movies and video games is what they do for fun.

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pulsar0510
March 4, 2010 7:11 PM
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Not only do you need a credit card of some sort to rent, but isn't the MPAA rating a voluntary thing? It's not law or anything, it's just a guidleline that is followed.

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3 replies
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Sumtron5000
March 5, 2010 10:01 AM
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Then how the heck can he threaten legal action? I mean I guess he can threaten anything, but maybe someone should tell him before he pulls a munson.

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Sys Admn
March 5, 2010 7:04 PM
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Reread the article, the part that quotes the actual law. An unrated porn film doesn't get a free ride (err, pass), nor is an R-rating automatically unlawful. An R-rating might make it easier for a prosecutor to get the jury to agree the material was harmful, though.

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XTC46
March 4, 2010 7:22 PM
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You are correct. The rating system is just that, a rating system.

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aaron8301
March 4, 2010 7:11 PM
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I'm willing to bet that the lawyer of the video stores that tipped off the prosecutor also donates to the prosecutor's election campaign.

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warf0x0r
March 4, 2010 7:16 PM
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Dear Vanderburgh County Prosecutor Stanley Levco:

Even though you live in Indiana I'm sure you have heard of the \"Internet\". Most minors, some of the more privileged ones in your state, have access to the \"Internet\". Most minors use it as a means of communication and learning. While I will not discuss with you exactly how this works... let’s face it that topic is probably over your head. I would like to inform you that the \"Internet\" also has a great variety of pornographic material available, for free, to anyone capable of correctly spelling the word: pornography. While this does rule out most of the denizens of your county and state it is perceivable that some of the smarter individuals are capable of viewing this material which does include minors. While MPAA ratings don't apply to this material I urge you to take your battle to the front doors of the \"Internet\" also. If anyone is able to stop this horrible beast I'm sure it is you.

Sincerely,
Man who has only read of the \"Internet\" in books with the word Dummies in the title.

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9 replies
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dbaker0810
March 4, 2010 10:28 PM
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*sigh* MUST we give this guy ideas??

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Daemon Xar
March 4, 2010 7:28 PM
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You don't even have to spell it correctly--google will helpfully correct misspelling.

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pecan 3.14159265
March 4, 2010 7:22 PM
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Most of the rated R movies I watched when I was a kid were horror movies. I do wish I hadn't seen some of them though, since even a decade and a half later, I remember specific scenes that terrified me as a kid. I don't think kids should see rated R movies because a lot of the movies now are really, really, bad, and even as an adult, I don't want to see some of these. I loved The Hangover, but I'd never, ever let my (hypothetical) kid see it.

I have a friend whose brother is probably one of the most obnoxious kids in the world. None of the other kids were ever allowed to watch rated R movies when they were kids, but the parents obviously stumbled with this kid. He's allowed to watch any movie he wants, and he thinks all of these rated R movies are so cool, and he mimics the behavior in them. This has turned him into an 11 year old douchebag who makes awful comments about women.

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pythonspam
March 5, 2010 12:52 AM
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The first R-rated movie I saw (age 14) was Schindler's List, then Glory, both with my parents.
Neither harmed me negatively (I learned a lot from both). MPAA ratings are just suggestions anyway. Leave it up to parents to decide what is acceptable.

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Kryndar
March 4, 2010 7:59 PM
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Heh, honestly don't recall when I first saw an R rated movie, although since I'm in Ontario it may have been AA here but not R. As an example the Matrix was AA in Ontario, I think. Actually I just checked on the imdb to make sure it was rated R in the states and how the hell is it #25 on the top 250, anyway that's beside the point. Of all the movies I saw as a kid the one the scared me the most was Who Framed Roger Rabit, namely the bit at the very end.

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pecan 3.14159265
March 4, 2010 7:24 PM
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Hm, that wasn't supposed to go under that comment.

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jackbishop
March 4, 2010 7:19 PM
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The MPAA rating system does not (and I believe has been specifically judged not Constitutionally qualified to, even if the feds wanted) have the force of law. I'd think it would be an uphill legal challenge to show that R-rated material was, in the eyes of the law rather than in the eyes of the MPAA's ostensibly voluntary coalition standards, harmful to minors -- particularly in light of the fact that minors are permitted to watch R-rated films under the guidance of a parent or guardian.

If there are vending machines dispensing NC-17 films and actual pornography, there might be a slightly stronger argument, but not by much.

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Straspey
March 4, 2010 7:24 PM
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I agree. I would counter-sue and challenge the prosecutor to demonstrate and show actual harm to specific children in each and every case where an \"R\" or \"PG-13\" had been purchased by a minor.

I would also challenge him to prove by preponderance of the evidence - on a purchase-by-purchase basis - that the individual DVD had been acquired without the knowledge and consent of a parent or legal guardian.

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Billy
March 4, 2010 7:51 PM
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This is the ordinance this is brought under:

IC 35-49-3-3: Dissemination of matter or conducting performance harmful to minors

Sec. 3. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a person who knowingly or intentionally:
(1) disseminates matter to minors that is harmful to minors;
(2) displays matter that is harmful to minors in an area to which minors have visual, auditory, or physical access, unless each minor is accompanied by the minor's parent or guardian;
(3) sells, rents, or displays for sale or rent to any person matter that is harmful to minors within five hundred (500) feet of the nearest property line of a school or church;
(4) engages in or conducts a performance before minors that is harmful to minors;
(5) engages in or conducts a performance that is harmful to minors in an area to which minors have visual, auditory, or physical access, unless each minor is accompanied by the minor's parent or guardian;
(6) misrepresents the minor's age for the purpose of obtaining admission to an area from which minors are restricted because of the display of matter or a performance that is harmful to minors; or
(7) misrepresents that the person is a parent or guardian of a
minor for the purpose of obtaining admission of the minor to an area where minors are being restricted because of display of matter or performance that is harmful to minors;
commits a Class D felony.

A law professor on the Indiana Law Blog commented that with the age restriction already in place by Redbox (18 and over), there's no way that Redbox could knowingly or intentionally be in violation of the law. In fact, a minor who misrepresents his age would be in violation of this law.

There is one part of this, though, section 3, which Redbox should be careful of. Heck, they might be aware of it, though.

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Emperor Norton I
March 4, 2010 10:46 PM
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Except that section 3 violates the First Amendment by respecting an establishment of religion.
Therefore, it's unconstitutional!

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Billy
March 5, 2010 5:54 PM
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Actually, it doesn't. I've worked cases similar to this one involving the prohibition of liquor sales within a certain distance from a church. There is a Supreme Court case called LARKIN v. GRENDEL'S DEN, INC which, essentially, says that legislature can restrict liquor sales in the proximity of churches. A church can not have influence over that law, though (a church can't waive the law, for example).

In light of that case and in light of other \"adult use\" zoning cases, I would have to say that church-proximity regulations don't necessarily run afoul of the Establishment clause of the Constitution. See also Lemon v. Kurtzman.

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Billy
March 4, 2010 7:54 PM
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I meant to post this below...I'll do it now.

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tbax929
March 4, 2010 7:20 PM
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Thiings seemed better when the gubment wasn't so insistent on parenting our children. You got nothing better to do? Really?

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1 replies
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Duke_Newcombe sez íViva la Revolucion de Chihuahua!
March 4, 2010 7:55 PM
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The gub'mint iz thret'ning our FREE-DOMZ!!!

Oh, wait. That cry is only for when non-conservative governments do it. Nevermind.

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oldwiz65
March 4, 2010 7:21 PM
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Anybody want to bet that the prosecutor/attorney own or have stock in a video rental store?

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varro
March 5, 2010 2:08 AM
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Doesn't own the stores, but one of his cronies does.

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fsnuffer
March 4, 2010 7:22 PM
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This is the most pressing issue of the day to deal with? Government intrusion, plain and simple

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redskull
March 5, 2010 9:05 AM
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Amen. Mr. Levco lives in severely economically depressed city full of shuttered businesses, that's shedding jobs by the truckload (I oughta know, I live here). And yet the issue of Little Johnny hearing the F word in a movie becomes his personal crusade.

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UltimateOutsider
March 4, 2010 7:25 PM
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I almost agreed with the sentiment until I read the part about the lawyer representing brick-and-mortar video shops. That's the way businesses deal with their competition these days- tattle to mommy rather than work to make their own products/services more attractive to customers. *glares at AMD*

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Dre'
March 5, 2010 6:58 AM
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This is in no way similar to the AMD / Intel fiasco.

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Shadowman615
March 5, 2010 12:54 AM
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Yeah, I don't know who got it into lawmakers' heads that it's their job to \"level the playing field.\" That's not in anyone's best interest except for the single business who is unable to compete anymore. Certainly it's bad for the consumers.

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Hobz
March 4, 2010 11:15 PM
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So why didn't Dell sell AMD based computers when AMD had the best chip on the market during the P4 days?

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wrjohnston91283
March 5, 2010 8:45 AM
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Intel was able to give them a better deal.

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Blackfished
March 4, 2010 7:46 PM
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I remember seeing the cigarette dispensers as a kid ( in uni now), and realizing at the age of seven or eight that I could easily get cigarettes out of them. No way to check id's at those, either, prosecutor man.

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bigd73
March 4, 2010 7:47 PM
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Oh Good God!!! Comic Books was a big first in corrupting our youth as was Rock n' Roll music and Heavy Metal music and Cartoons, Movies and everything else but parents. Everyone needs someone to blame. My Son who is almost 20 has played games all his life, read comic books and listened to heavy metal music and rap and he has never killed anyone, is in a great college, get's a B average and plays football. The government is always looking for someone to blame for problems and most of the people of this country are to lazy to watch their own kids so they let the government do it for them. If you don't want your child to see an R rated movie then don't allow them but take the responsiblity to do it yourself. The government needs to stay out of stuff like this so we can let natural selection run it's course so idiots don't keep making it anyways. Long live Darwin.

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r01984
March 4, 2010 7:48 PM
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\"cites an Indiana law prohibiting dissemination of matter harmful to minors\"

Um.. harmful is a very relative term.
In my mind there is not one movie that exists that will be harmful for a child, especially one that has the capability to use a red box machine.

Indiana law = fail
This law does not apply.

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drburk
March 5, 2010 6:53 AM
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Depending on how you define material, that means that candy is now illegal under the age of 18. dang I love my state.

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El_Fez
March 4, 2010 7:52 PM
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Dont you need like a credit card or something to rent from one of those? Surely that's enough, isn't it? The responsibility is on the parent if they give lil' Jimmy the mastercard and sends him out to pick up copies of \"Foreskin Gump\", \"Desperately Seeking Semen II\" and \"Little Oral Annie\" for the night?

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Syncop8d1
March 5, 2010 3:01 PM
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Years ago I once the advertisement for \"Little Oral Annie\" on a movie marque (sp?). I was a child then, but old enough to get the humor. Years later there was \"John Wayne Bobbitt, Uncut\" advertised at a theatre near Knott's Berry Farm. Not that any of this is really relevant to the discussion at hand, but your comment made me think of how I funny I find some porn titles to be.

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pecan 3.14159265
March 4, 2010 10:16 PM
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Redbox rents regular movies, not porn.

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NarcolepticGirl
March 4, 2010 7:54 PM
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Are there even G rated movies anymore?

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dvdchris
March 7, 2010 1:32 PM
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Less than 10 movies released in 2009 were rated G.

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HogwartsProfessor
March 5, 2010 11:20 AM
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I don't think so. When my ex and I took his little girl to see \"Stuart Little,\" the cat said \"DAMN!\" We looked at each other like OMG!

It was totally unnecessary in the context of the movie. They just don't make 'em like they used to. *sigh

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baristabrawl
March 4, 2010 7:54 PM
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Nanny State. Parents. Credit Cards. Blockbuster is closing. If you let your 8 year old watch \"Shutter Island,\" that's on you. It's your irresponsible ass that has to stay up all night with their nightmares.

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Billy
March 4, 2010 7:55 PM
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This is the ordinance this is brought under:

IC 35-49-3-3: Dissemination of matter or conducting performance harmful to minors

Sec. 3. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a person who knowingly or intentionally:
(1) disseminates matter to minors that is harmful to minors;
(2) displays matter that is harmful to minors in an area to which minors have visual, auditory, or physical access, unless each minor is accompanied by the minor's parent or guardian;
(3) sells, rents, or displays for sale or rent to any person matter that is harmful to minors within five hundred (500) feet of the nearest property line of a school or church;
(4) engages in or conducts a performance before minors that is harmful to minors;
(5) engages in or conducts a performance that is harmful to minors in an area to which minors have visual, auditory, or physical access, unless each minor is accompanied by the minor's parent or guardian;
(6) misrepresents the minor's age for the purpose of obtaining admission to an area from which minors are restricted because of the display of matter or a performance that is harmful to minors; or
(7) misrepresents that the person is a parent or guardian of a
minor for the purpose of obtaining admission of the minor to an area where minors are being restricted because of display of matter or performance that is harmful to minors;
commits a Class D felony.

A law professor on the Indiana Law Blog commented that with the age restriction already in place by Redbox (18 and over), there's no way that Redbox could knowingly or intentionally be in violation of the law. In fact, a minor who misrepresents his age would be in violation of this law.

There is one part of this, though, section 3, which Redbox should be careful of. Heck, they might be aware of it, though.

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Dragon Tiger
March 5, 2010 10:49 AM
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My bigger concern here is where \"harmful\" is defined in relation to this law.

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TCama
March 4, 2010 8:50 PM
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The troubling thing about this, legally, is that the prosecutor would have to prove that the same exact standards that MPAA uses to label a movie PG, PG-13 or R, are the legal standards as to what is harmful to minors. The MPAA rating system is not that. Furthermore, ratings are assigned by a private association, not a government agency.

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jason in boston
March 4, 2010 9:21 PM
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Great point. The MPAA standards are not exactly cut and dry. The documentary \"This Film is Not Yet Rated\" proved the hell out of this.

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Jason
March 4, 2010 7:55 PM
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I haven't seen many 3 year olds trying to rent at redbox lately. Must be an election year and someone needs the religious vote.

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colorisnteverything
March 4, 2010 9:12 PM
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Um... it's a red part of this state and an election year, so yes. He is pandering. Plain and simple.

I don't have a problem with the redbox machines. I use IU's rental service because I pay for it as a student and I can pretty much get any new release known to man because I live in the dorms, so I don't use redbox.

However, I wasn't allowed to watch R-rated movies or even PG-13 movies until I was 13 or 14 and my parents finally felt it was both okay for my younger sister and I both to watch them. Because what one watches, the other will, too. That is something each parent must decide, though, not a county or the state of IN.

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mianne
March 4, 2010 10:29 PM
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But what percentage of the constituency are already users of RedBox and similar kiosks? Of those: how many want to have these stripped of everything intended for people older than 7? Or required to show their ID to a fast food employee before they're allowed in to use it? Or would be happy just going back to BlockBuster instead?

I don't hare how \"red\" Indiana is, this legislation is dead in the water.

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dwohio
March 4, 2010 8:02 PM
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How much you wana bet somehow, somewhere, there has been influence used upon this attorney by interests who will profit from these kiosks being shuttered.

I would put money on it. Dig far enuf...you will find blockbuster or hollywood or some other brick and mortar retailer who he is \"helping\".

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2 replies
March 4, 2010 8:04 PM
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Levco is spouting nothing but bull$hit.
Period.

The dude needs to stop trying to litigate technology that he obviously doesn't fully understand.
the Indiana state bar association should SERIOUSLY look into reviewing whether or not he should have his license revoked, and seriously question his education.

You MUST have the valid credit-card that is associated with the account IN HAND at the Redbox if you want to rent or even pickup a reserved DVD.
The ONLY thing you can do without a card is view DVD covers and return DVDs.
The box won't even dispense a DVD without verifying the card via swipe and zip-code entry.
Even if his bitch is about the covers, he still has no leg to stand on. The covers are approved by the mpaa, and are G at best.

And if a parent is giving their kid a credit card, then the kid renting movies >G rating is the LEAST of their problems. The patent's first problem they should be worried about should be why in the hell they're giving their \"any-movie-over-G-is-ruining-my-kid\" kid a credit card in the first place.

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Postal
March 5, 2010 1:32 PM
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He doesn't care about learning technology, he cares about getting elected. No better way than to \"protect the children.\" Which is why if your computer becomes infected with a virus which causes it to d/l or share kiddy porn, you are the one going to prison. One reason I want to go to law school is to derail idiots like this.

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El_Red
March 4, 2010 8:19 PM
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I imagine this prosecutor never heard about thing like : INTERNET !!!!
With porn, bittorent, pirate bay, etc

I cannot stand hypocrites and their policies.

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FS1
March 4, 2010 8:20 PM
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Kids don't need Redbox to get their R-rated movie fix. There are plenty of other places they can access those movies much easier. Like just grabbing it off the family video shelf, for example.

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Ishbar
March 4, 2010 8:24 PM
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I think the biggest safe guard is that they require a Credit card or Debit card to use. Both require you to be 18 years of age, In some states I have seen 17...which is still old enough to view R rated content.

This is probably another instance of some mother was too irresponsible and let her kid run amok with her card.

Also this line bothers me: \"I'm not on a crusade,\" said Paul Black, an Evansville attorney who says he suggested the inquiry to Levco's office on behalf of a client who operates several video store locations. \"We're just looking for a level playing field here.\"

Doesn't that mean there would be a CONFLICT OF INTEREST?

RedBox is awesome, the video store is dead.
FFS we don't need brick and mortar stores as well as idiot mothers trying to take them out for their own poor choices.

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roshambo
March 4, 2010 8:31 PM
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So let me get this straight, they don't want anything but G rated movies in these boxes because I assume they are worried that a kid will rent the movie without the parents consent, PG-13 is for 13 yr old, I have to assume that PG is for 12 and 11 yr olds thus logically they are essentially saying that 10yr olds and younger are wandering the streets and supermarkets alone unspupervised by parents renting movies that aren't appropriate for their age that will lead to their corruption. I would have to assume that if kids under 11 are wandering the streets alone, renting movies should be the least of the politicians concern. I would think the fact that there is no parental supervision over what must be thousands of kids renting these horrible movies would be the primary concern of the law makers. People seriously need to get their heads screwed on straight. Stuff like this is rediculous. Such a waste of tax payer money. Any time something like this comes up in any state, the politician should be immediately fired, any pention or health care they were to receive should be revoked and the position would be done away with as obviously if they have time for crap like this, the job position has become pointless and is no longer needed. Think of all the money we could save. Nex thing you know, schools and public services would be fully funded again.

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nakkypoo
March 4, 2010 8:40 PM
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PG doesn't have an age, but if it did, it'd be closer to 7. Even PG-13 is still just a suggestion, it's not an age restriction. Here are what the ratings mean, from the MPAA.

http://www.mpaa.org/FlmRat_Ratings.asp

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Friday7261965
March 4, 2010 8:38 PM
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The ideal thing would be for Schnucks to send a letter back telliing the prosecutor that his interpretation of the law is flawed and they therefore respectfully will continue to have the Redbox in their stores. Based on this morons reading of the law,
\"(1) disseminates matter to minors that is harmful to minors;\" I would say Twinkie's every sugar coated cereal, fall under the category of harmful to minors. Visually watching the fat broad in stretch pants and curlers walking in the local wal mart is as hermful to minors as watching The Hangover.
It;s time to remove the stick from up this guys ass and start beating him with it.

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TCama
March 4, 2010 8:44 PM
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The MPAA rating system is not government regulated. It's a somewhat arbitrary rating made by an industry association, and participation (by studios, distributors, theaters, retailers and everyone else involved) is completely voluntary.

Now, if a prosecutor were to try to enforce something like this, it would not go over well at all. Essentially, the state of Indiana would be putting legal force behind the rating system, opening them up to all sorts of lawsuits.

The best part is that the MPAA made the rating system as a way to AVOID government regulation of the industry. I bet MPAA's official position on this is that they are opposed to it.

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The Marionette
March 4, 2010 8:59 PM
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Should adult-rated movies be removed from redbox kiosks because of the \"risk\" of minors renting them? No. The parents should be the ones responsible for their kid's well-being. Unless their parents are giving them their debit/credit cards then there should really be no worry about them renting r-rated movies. I haven't used redbox myself, so I don't know if it accepts prepaid debit cards, but even so it's a bit difficult for a minor to even get a prepaid debit card because all the places that I go to where you can get one require that you're over 18 (a few times they needed your parent).

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restored486
March 4, 2010 9:04 PM
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\"cites an Indiana law prohibiting dissemination of matter harmful to minors\"
-wouldn't that include religion since a lot of discrimination and violence arises from that?

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Kat@Work
March 4, 2010 9:05 PM
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Movie ratings aren't the law... its an independent board - which sucks I might add.

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JiminyChristmas
March 4, 2010 9:06 PM
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A related Indiana statute defines 'harmful to minors'

IC 35-49-2-2Matter or performance harmful to minors Sec. 2. A matter or performance is harmful to minors for purposes of this article if: (1) it describes or represents, in any form, nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, or sado-masochistic abuse; (2) considered as a whole, it appeals to the prurient interest in sex of minors; (3) it is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is suitable matter for or performance before minors; and (4) considered as a whole, it lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors.

IANAL but invoking this law as it relates to MPAA ratings in a blanket manner doesn't even meet the intent of the statute, nevermind the Constitutional questions. It seems to me that each movie would have to be judged against the standard individually.

For example, Schindler's List is rated R partly due to nudity. I don't think any reasonable person would say that movie \"considered as a whole...appeals to the prurient interest in sex of minor.\" On the other hand if you were talking about maybe Wild Things 3, also rated R, the \"prurient interest\" standard may fit. In any case, it's ridiculous to apply this statute on the simple basis of having PG-13 or R movies for sale or rent.

As for my own editorial comment on this, it's odd to me that what this law identifies as supposedly harmful to minors is focused exclusively on sex. There's no mention of the myriad graphic portrayals of violence, torture and murder in contemporary films. Tits and ass are harmful, but movies like Saw, Hostel or a hundred other serial killer or slasher movies aren't? That makes no sense at all.

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varro
March 5, 2010 2:14 AM
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This is a variation of the Miller test for obscenity, and *nothing* that Redbox rents would fall under this law. The only thing that would be covered by this is porn, and porn is easily accessible for free on the Internet by most kids and some adults.

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MikeB
March 4, 2010 9:09 PM
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ok, to rent from the Kiosk, you need a credit card. To get a credit card you need a parent to give it to you, so if the kid knows the password (never rented from one so not sure if there is just a pw) then the parent would have had to give it to them.

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pecan 3.14159265
March 4, 2010 10:18 PM
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There is no password. You pick your movie, put in the credit card, and punch in the zip code.

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kcvaliant
March 4, 2010 9:10 PM
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Since when did kids get credit cards and accounts??? Damn those parents...

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skrolnik
March 4, 2010 9:35 PM
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Clearly, Mr. Levco must have frequented cigarette vending machines as a child and all the nicotine stunted his mental growth.

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LACubsFan
March 4, 2010 10:11 PM
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Dear Senator Asshole....

Do many minors in your area have credit cards?

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MrUbiq
March 4, 2010 10:14 PM
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Hopefully an Indiana based parenting group will take this for what it is, an insult to their parenting skills; and rise up in crusade against it ;P

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flarn2006
March 4, 2010 10:21 PM
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My computer misheard this headline as: \"Indiana prosecutor wants PDT. For teen and are rated movies load robots guts.\"

PDT = Pacific Daylight Time?

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flarn2006
March 4, 2010 10:23 PM
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I think this whole thing about movie ratings is stupid. Who determines what can \"harm\" a child? Why is sexual content inherently more \"harmful\" than anything else? And besides, restricting movie ratings by law puts too much power in the hands of the MPAA, a private corporation (as if they didn't have enough power already!)

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Adam
March 4, 2010 10:25 PM
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I understand R to an extent.....PG-13, okay....it's getting a little stupid....But PG as well? This guy is a whackjob. In pretty much every case, the kids that watch these R rated movies see and hear much, much, much, much, much, much worse OFF the TV in public, at school, and ON the TV watching regular prime time programming.

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thesupremeaj
March 4, 2010 10:39 PM
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Hmm....

Most states have mag stripes on the back of state ID's (I know PA does.) Why dont they use state ID's to check for age? Redbox would also then have more recourse on lost/stolen movies since they could also utililize the other info on the ID. (Name, address ID number, etc...)

Now all the privacy advocates can sue me below!

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veg-o-matic
March 4, 2010 10:55 PM
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Bob Jones University graduates now have a new hero.

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IceCat
March 4, 2010 11:10 PM
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Watch this for all you need to know about the MPAA, and the ratings,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDqxuGlxbWc

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Forgotten18
March 4, 2010 11:39 PM
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I actually laughed my ass off while reading this post...

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MooseOfReason
March 4, 2010 11:50 PM
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If you need a credit card to use the kiosks anyway, the people who would go to the kiosks for any PG, PG-13, or R-rated movies, would go online and buy a used copy at Amazon, or sign up for Netflix (which might actually be a better deal than Redbox).

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Elphaba
March 4, 2010 11:58 PM
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Just noting that not all nutbirds are from Utah. Here the statute of harmful material to a child specifically excluded R rated movies. Srsly, this statute mean porn, not Indiana Jones or the Thomas Crown Affair.

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DerangedHermit
March 5, 2010 12:13 AM
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I'll just download hardcore porn for free.

God bless the Internet.

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PSUSkier
March 5, 2010 1:03 AM
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PG? Really? REALLY?!

Next all these 6 year olds will be watching movies like Home Alone and start doing drugs and drinking! Thank God for prosecutors like this guy.

DIAF. That is all.

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dg
March 5, 2010 1:24 AM
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I'd tell the guy - thanks for the opinion, I don't concur, and MPAA ratings don't carry the weight of law. They are voluntary. We do not concur that any of the materials contained within the Video Rental Box to be harmful to anyone, minors notwithstanding. Moreover, our box requires a credit card/debit card for use, and we state it is only to be utilized by adults over the age of 18. We have taken reasonable steps to ensure this, but just as the State is unable to prevent alcohol purchases by minors, we make no guarantees nor accept any responsibility for use by same. We further find that your allegation that we restrict movie rentals to certain voluntary rating classifications to be an unlawful restraint on Constitutionally-protected speech, and to be overbroad on its face.


In otherwords - I'd tell them \"Bring it on...\"

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AmPriS
March 5, 2010 1:41 AM
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So a private attorney who represents brick and mortar rental businesses gets in touch with a county prosecutor.

This is nothing more than an illegitimate attempt to oust redbox from grocery stores.

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cmhbob
March 5, 2010 2:46 AM
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Good lord! Don't let this man into the library, either!

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qwerty017
March 5, 2010 4:27 AM
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Ummm.... I'm pretty sure the ratings system is completely voluntary and as such has no legal bearing.

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Don't_rip_me_off_bro
March 5, 2010 6:23 AM
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Really? This is what we've come to, Amurca? We suck so hard.

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drburk
March 5, 2010 6:54 AM
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Just make parent's register the card online to allow renting of R rated movies.

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TailsToo
March 5, 2010 8:51 AM
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So we won't give them health insurance, not going to reform student aid / tuition abuses, or do anything to help build a robust job market for their future, but we'll protect kids by keeping PG-13 movies out of store kiosk.

Please.

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harsa321
March 5, 2010 8:58 AM
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A credit card is needed to rent... and should theoretically prohibit those under 18 from renting a video at all. That\"s enough of a safeguard in my opinion....

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redskull
March 5, 2010 9:09 AM
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Incredibly, if you read the entire article, Mr. Levco admits that he didn't know such movie kiosks existed until a \"concerned citizen\" brought them to his attention. So even though they've been around for more than a year, now that he's aware of them he's labeled them an official Public Menace.

Wat do you want to bet the \"concerned citizen\" owns the last Blockbuster Video in town?

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Papercutninja
March 5, 2010 9:19 AM
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i hate the midwest. I'm sorry. I just do.

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Sumtron5000
March 5, 2010 9:42 AM
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Let's pretend that every movie theater and brick and mortar rental and sales store check IDs meticulously. What about buying movies through Amazon or any other online site? What about renting movies through Nextflix? What about downloading them with points through XBOX or other consoles? What about every porn site where the box says \"Are you 18 years of age or older?\" What about the time in fifth grade when someone's mom rented \"Waiting to Exhale\" and we all watched it during a sleepover?

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Ladybird
March 5, 2010 9:43 AM
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Since the ratings are voluntary, what if your parents give/gave you permission to watch a rated R or PG-13 movie?

My mom never had a problem with movies like Glory or Schlinder's list; she saw them as educational and a jumping off point to talk about slavery and the Holocaust. I don't do scary movies, so she never had to censor those.

This guy sounds like an idiot.

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mister_deez
March 5, 2010 10:00 AM
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Like people have mentioned, I think the credit card issue stops most of this from happening anyways. I think way before you try to pass legislation to prevent the low probability that some kid will go through all this trouble just to rent a rated R movie from redbox, you have to just LET THE PARENTS DO THEIR JOB. If you don't want kids watching rated R movies then the best chance you have is to let the parents stop them. If the parents don't mind the kids watching rated R movies anyways, then you're pretty much screwed because they'll rent it for their kids. Stanley Levco, please go find a more worthy cause for your effort and education.

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bwcbwc
March 5, 2010 10:03 AM
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Isn't the ratings scheme a voluntary industry standard that was implemented in order to prevent government censorship?

I suspect this prosecutor has no bite to back up his bark. There isn't anything that obligates Redbox to limit distribution to minors except possibly in their contracts with the media companies. And in order to prosecute, he can't just say they're violating the ratings, he has to show harm to a minor. (IANAL)

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Steamboat
March 5, 2010 10:13 AM
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If this went through, it would be disastrous for Redbox AND for the consumers renting from its kiosks.

95% of what consumers want to see are movies with a rating of PG or higher. If Redbox were limited only to G-titles, it would only carry Children's films and movies released decades ago. Not what people want to see, and not a business model that would succeed for Redbox!

The other problem is that the G-rated titles currently offered by Redbox are DREADFUL. Redbox never seems to get the good family films (e.g. Disney and Pixar). Instead, they offer obscure cartoons with lousy animation or collections of episodes from third-rate kids' shows.

Why punish US for the sake of a few bad parents?

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Dirk
March 5, 2010 10:18 AM
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This is obviously not about \"protecting the children\" or whatnot. This is clearly about protecting the financial interests of the brick and mortar video stores.

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lihtox
March 5, 2010 10:50 AM
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A PG rating doesn't prevent kids from seeing a movie even in theaters; it's \"parental guidance suggested\" last time I checked. So the fellow wants to hold Redbox to a higher standard than movie theaters.

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johnrhoward
March 5, 2010 11:52 AM
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If parents don't want their kids renting inappropriate movies at DVD rental kiosks, perhaps those parents should take away their kids' credit cards.

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duncanblackthorne
March 5, 2010 12:31 PM
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You don't need a calendar to know when it's an election year, do you?

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redskull
March 5, 2010 12:56 PM
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Whew! The local paper just ran an update and Mr. Levco has decided NOT to prosecute store owners with Redbox kiosks.

Hooray! Hoosier minors can still see all the boobies they want!

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/mar/05/levco-wont-prosecute-over-movie-boxes/

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markathome99
March 5, 2010 1:09 PM
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Our local theater's will not let kids see R without their parents, there's control there. What's to stop the kids from renting a video. Same thing....

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grapedog
March 5, 2010 2:09 PM
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I think anyone who gives their kid a card to access their account is a moron. One of the most important lessons a kid can learn today is the value of the dollar, and sadly cards don't work for that.

I don't care how much parents say they teach their kids about the value of a dollar, unless a kid with a $10 bill only gets back $5, or has to give up his last $1...he's not really figuring it out.

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diddy0071
March 5, 2010 6:03 PM
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So who is this prosecutor receiving money from? Hollywood Video or Blockbuster? One can only wonder.

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droidd
March 6, 2010 4:34 PM
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I had always thought that movie ratings were \"guidelines\" that movie theaters and rentals places agreed to go by and enforce themselves.

I did not think that the ratings were laws saying that if the movie was rated R that if you were under 18 you could not rent/watch.

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jaredswilliams
March 6, 2010 4:41 PM
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You need a credit or debit card to rent a movie from red box, meaning either mommy and daddy are giving their kid their credit card AND PIN which means they don't give a crap about their kid anyway, or they are at least 18 and can see a rated R movie anyway.

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photoradarscam
March 8, 2010 12:10 AM
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Kind of ironic. They care that minors might get a hold or an R or PG13 movie, but they don't care about the red light cameras that can't identify the actual driver and errors made when tickets go to the wrong person.

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