var json_comments = new Array("
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H3ion
February 9, 2010 7:06 PM
Moderate | Flag for review

Won't Amex block the charge, or issue a chargeback? I mean if Amex can call and say something is wrong, can't they do something about it?

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5 replies
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Greekboy
February 10, 2010 2:27 PM
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Credit Card companies do not consider the holder of the card as the customer. Businesses are their customer and CC companies always refuse to stop charges at the customer's request even though they are obviously false. Get used to it. The customer is just a pawn in the consumer credit game.

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nl86
February 10, 2010 11:41 PM
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this would be the case if the original user wasnt dealing with amex. amex will almost always stand up for their card holders rather than their merchants

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kpsi355
February 10, 2010 10:12 AM
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I used to own a business. I only ever had one chargeback procedure initiated (they called it a 'Transaction investigation') and had I not provided proof of authorization by the customer I'd have had the amount of the charge in question, plus a $25 chargeback fee, deducted from my next batch of card earnings. I was already out the merchant fees.

So yeah, you'd think that this sort of malfunction would have Mapple acting with haste to stop the charges. Must cost them $35+ every time they fraudulently charge your card.

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nucwin83
February 10, 2010 8:48 AM
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Exactly. Every charge past the first is unauthorized. If the regular CSR won't listen, get the call escalated.

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winner
February 9, 2010 10:11 PM
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Absolutely. He should just tell Amex that the charges are fraudulent and have Amex reverse them. They'll issue the OP a credit and deal with Apple directly.

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M3wThr33
February 9, 2010 7:12 PM
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Oh dear god.

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2 replies
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SenatorIvy
February 10, 2010 8:25 AM
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This is why I was hesitant to use iTunes to find album art. I of course found out that it doesn't even do album art in a usable fashion anyway.

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TheFingerOfGod
February 10, 2010 10:59 AM
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HUH? You hesitate to use a function that is free (as in, you don't pay for album art even for music that you have ripped yourself. . . it does not even initiate a purchase when you try and get album art.). Are you saying that you are scared to signup for iTunes and thus have no access to the album art service. Is that what you are saying? But if that is what you are saying then how can you know that they don't \"do album art in a usable fashion anyway\"? And what does that mean? What don't they do right with album art? THe pictures that I have gotten are rather large and fairly detailed. Please enlighten me.

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celeb8
February 13, 2010 3:59 AM
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The reason he would hesitate to get an iTunes account is that iTunes asks for your CC before you get access to download the album art for your old albums. There are ways out of/around it, but that's what it asks for by default and at least implies that it requires. It's now clear that that CC going to iTunes/Apple would be a very, very bad idea.

As for the part regarding the art not being usable, no idea.

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legwork
February 9, 2010 7:13 PM
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I can't help but picture Homer somewhere deep inside the iTunes billing department, asleep at the keyboard, with his nose firmly planted on the Enter/\"submit\" key.

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3 replies
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dancing_bear
February 9, 2010 7:27 PM
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Or the episode where Homer had the bird that drinks water pecking at the keyboard. http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2009/08/dipping-bird-reprise.jpg

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Kllian
February 9, 2010 7:15 PM
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They'll respond to a lawsuit.

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4 replies
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Verucalise (Est.February2008)
February 9, 2010 9:52 PM
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I think you are a little quick to jump on the sue bandwagon. It's not like Apple is going to bang down his door and demand money. He bought $146 worth of product. They can't charge him for any more than he received. It's an obvious billing error, and I highly doubt they will be held liable.

Amex will issue a refund and go after Apple. No lawsuit needed.

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RickN
February 10, 2010 10:10 AM
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I'm not sue-happy either but... \"We've charged you 300 fraudulent charges, we're continuing to charge you additional times, and we have no intention of stopping. Fix it yourself.\"

Not the best attitude for the company in the wrong. With the chargebacks he hasn't suffered actual monetary damages, but what a pain in the butt...

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CompyPaq
February 9, 2010 7:17 PM
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Why doesn't AmEx just block the charges? Or better, block the charges and then bill Apple for every chargeback. I'm sure that will get attention.

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midwestkel
February 9, 2010 7:28 PM
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Yea definitely 299 charge backs for fraud, I would think Amex would help you out.

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2 replies
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Orv
February 9, 2010 7:34 PM
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Yeah, I find that chargebacks mysteriously cause unreachable customer service departments to become reachable.

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theblackdog
February 11, 2010 5:44 PM
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It's true that they do, though sometimes they still won't help you, yet they strangely just let the chargeback go through then

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Skeptic
February 9, 2010 7:31 PM
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Do you know in which state iTunes is headquartered? Tell the AG's office. Also, if they are doing any advertizing or billing by mail, file with the US Postal Service's mail fraud division.

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2 replies
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wrjohnston91283
February 9, 2010 7:46 PM
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Apple doesn't normally do billing via mail. Doesn't mailing advertisements constitute mail fraud in this case? I don't think USPS would have any jurisdiction over this.

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Smashville
February 10, 2010 9:52 AM
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But your point is still there. Apple doesn't use the mail.

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Billy
February 10, 2010 12:21 PM
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Also, a billing error is not mail fraud.

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danielem1
February 9, 2010 7:37 PM
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It's funny how helpless the credit card companies try to make us think they are when things like this happen. Puuleez, AMEX, we know you know you can do something about this, it's just cheaper for you to have us deal with the glitchy retailer for you first.

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1 replies
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rocketslide
February 9, 2010 7:43 PM
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Especially since he didn't know it was happening until Amex alerted him. Clearly they know that this is not something a customer would normally do. On the plus side, would he get credited $50,000 in rewards points?

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Lucky225
February 9, 2010 7:43 PM
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One, LAST TIME, are these ACTUAL charges or PRE AUTHORIZATIONS, perhaps you need to check your AVS billing address

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1 replies
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aka_mich
February 9, 2010 7:50 PM
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Not sure how AMEX works but if they have $50,000 pre-authorized on an account that only has $5000 that may be enough to stop him from using it for anything else. I see your point and it's worth checking but with numbers this high I think he has every right to flip his shit no matter what they're showing up as because it's obviously wrong.

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ChemicallyInert
February 9, 2010 7:50 PM
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Quickly! Hop into a USB shaped submarine and dock with the underwater Apple headquarters so you can beg for Steve Jobs's leniency and mercy!

([comicbookguy]Some people will get this reference. Most will not. I am perfectly content with that.[/comicbookguy])

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4 replies
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Dracoster
February 11, 2010 12:30 PM
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That would be a Firewire submarine.

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misterfweem
February 10, 2010 6:38 AM
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Think Differently . . . Think Differently . . .

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ChemicallyInert
February 10, 2010 5:55 PM
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We need to flay him. Everyone! Flay him with your earbuds!

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Coles_Law
February 9, 2010 9:32 PM
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How would complaining to Mapple help here? :)

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aka_mich
February 9, 2010 7:51 PM
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Well it's a novel way to combat piracy but their approach seems somewhat flawed.

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Andrew360
February 9, 2010 7:58 PM
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I've always received excellent service from iTunes support, unfortunately this service (by email) takes a day to respond. I'm sure that Apple will make it right, they've always done so well for me.

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twophrasebark
February 9, 2010 8:01 PM
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There should be a contest on somehow figuring out a way to blame the OP for this.

Most creative answer wins.

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13 replies
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jerry101
February 10, 2010 2:04 PM
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This is the OP's fault for listening to music. God hates music, so he's punishing the OP.

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TheFingerOfGod
February 10, 2010 11:02 AM
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This seems to be just a mistake and will be fixed. How is that?

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vastrightwing
February 10, 2010 9:23 AM
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The OP probably had a virus on his machine and it kept ordering the same purchase over and over. Since Mapple is not responsible for keeping his machine free of viruses, they won't allow a charge back and neither will Amex.

I repeat. There are alternatives ways to obtain music. iTunes is not the only provider of music.

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Wrathernaut
February 10, 2010 7:29 AM
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This is what he gets for not showing his reciept at the door!

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David in Brasil
February 10, 2010 5:38 AM
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OP shouldn't have bought anything from Apple in the first place.

They've never done me any favors - the last time I called their support, it was hinted that I would have to jailbreak my iPhone to fix my problem. The guy said \"well, we can't officially recommend this, but there are plenty of places on the web where you can get the information you need\".

So much for their stellar customer support.

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S
February 10, 2010 2:54 AM
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Obviously the OP didn't fill the forms out properly when he signed up. He can't blame Apple for charging him using Zimbabwean dollars because he selected the wrong country from the list!

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
February 10, 2010 12:04 AM
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Apple fanbois deserve what they get?

(As my iTunes updates my podcasts ....)

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MercuryPDX
February 9, 2010 11:14 PM
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I just make my own music at home. It's cheaper and sounds MUCH better.

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morganlh85
February 9, 2010 9:56 PM
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They are back billing you for all the music you downloaded illegally.

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ogsoleysol
February 9, 2010 9:37 PM
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Credit/charge cards are evil. If OP hadn't used a credit/charge card, this wouldn't have happened.

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StanislausBabalistic
February 9, 2010 8:20 PM
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That's what you get when you pay for music?

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Tamar Weinberg
February 9, 2010 8:06 PM
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Gotta love Apple. They're too good for real customer service for \"digital\" issues.

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1 replies
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pot_roast
February 10, 2010 11:38 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

That was a really ignorant and clueless thing to say.

The OP should call Executive Relations. The number is here:
http://www.apple.com/contact/

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LESSTHANKIND
February 9, 2010 9:20 PM
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Normally banks and credit card companies have systems in place to stop this kind of thing... numerous duplicate transactions should trigger automatic cancellations of those transactions. This kind of thing has happened to me several times (not to the tune of 299 extras, but...), and every time the bank or credit card company has said the same thing... the duplicates will drop off. And they always have. So I'm not quite sure why AmEx, especially after confirming the obvious error/glitch with the customer, can't deal with the situation by either making sure only one transaction goes through, or issuing an automatic credit for the 299 duplicate transactions if they do go through.

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bigmil87
February 9, 2010 9:21 PM
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\"There is no number for iTunes and I have sent multiple messages to them without response via email.\"

This is correct somewhat. I worked at Apple as a Tier 2 Tech Support Agent for over a year and can fill you in.

1) There is no public phone number to reach Apple's iTunes store support page. There is an internal one, however you need to have an iPhone or iPod Touch serial number in the internal program called iLog to even be able to call iTMS (iTunes Music Store).

2)I have called many a times about issues related to cards(while working there). They do not handle it. Simply put the store, even at their T2 which is the highest technical support, does not have the ability to do anything but force remove the card. They cannot reverse charges. All they can do is credit them.

3)The email support isn't the best but its not all that they have. IF and only IF an iTMS Advisor is not busy answering phone calls or emails from other customers there will be a Chat Now button that pops up. Clicking on that will get you directly into contact with the iTMS Advisors, you can find the link on this page if you click on iTunes Account and Billing (http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/)

4)AMEX is the one thats going to have to do something. You can call all day long to AppleCare, till your fingers are blue and you can't speak anymore it won't accomplish anything. Like you were told all that can be done from Apple's side is to remove the credit card, and then at that point working with AMEX they should be contacting Apple from their side.

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1 replies
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Mysterry
February 10, 2010 1:07 PM
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I feel sorry for you working for Apple. I'm unsure if you work for one of the contracting companies that is work for Apple and aren't really an \"Apple employee\" but all the same, I feel sorry for you.

Otherwise, what you've said is correct.

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zimmi88
February 9, 2010 9:27 PM
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So, I bet this revolutionary software goes something like this...

while (customer_is_not_broke) {
charge_credit_card();
}

Right? =P

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2 replies
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sqlrob
February 10, 2010 9:50 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

No. Apple uses Objective C

while (![customer isbroke])
{
[creditCard charge:Amount];
}

;)

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glorpy
February 10, 2010 9:49 AM
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That would surprise me. I would expect Apple's billing software to be more object oriented.

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Trai_Dep
February 9, 2010 9:27 PM
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You know, you DON'T have to buy a song every time you want to hear it. Really, you don't.

/j

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Crutnacker
February 9, 2010 9:28 PM
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Maybe you can use an iPad to stop the bleeding.

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Crutnacker
February 9, 2010 9:32 PM
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EECB sent to Apple regarding this story. AMEX is worthless in dealing with customer disputes IMHO.

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1 replies
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Derek Balling
February 9, 2010 9:34 PM
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If Amex starts doing Chargebacks, Apple will sort it out. Chargebacks are for \"full face value\" as opposed to \"what Apple got paid\".

So if, for example, Apple sold $100 worth of stuff, they got, after Amex tithes, say, $97. When they get charged-back, though, Apple's balance gets debited by $100, not $97. So each bad charge costs them $3.

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G00MAN
February 9, 2010 10:03 PM
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Charge Back. Charge Back. Charge Back. (Repeat 300X).

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BelleSade
February 9, 2010 10:30 PM
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Heh, I had a very similar thing happen to me. I purchased a few songs on Itunes, and Itunes kept saying that my debit card wasn't valid. So I tried to pay for them about 14 times before giving up. I look into my bank account, lo and behold, they charged me money (the 14 times) without actually giving me the product I paid for. I tried everything and just settled on calling my bank and fixing it myself.

I've decided never to buy anything from the Itunes store again except the useful apps.

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3 replies
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jerry101
February 10, 2010 2:03 PM
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I never buy anything from Apple or ITunes, except when I do.

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RogerX
February 9, 2010 11:19 PM
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\"And I never, ever buy anything from Best Buy, unless I really want it.\"

:P

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BelleSade
February 10, 2010 12:58 AM
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No, buying at Best Buy is inexcusable. Plus, you can get just about everything Best Buy sells elsewhere.

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S
February 10, 2010 3:26 AM
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Unless you order everything from the internet and your NIC dies. True story, happened to me the day of the grand opening of Best Buy. Stacked 2 coupons only valid that day and only spent $3 on a NIC marked around $15.

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ninjatoddler
February 9, 2010 10:57 PM
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While listening to AC/DC on his iPod, Joel decided to check his AmEx online account on his MacBook. He was Thunderstruck! He called AmEx customer service who wanted Joel to get his Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap by passing the buck to Mapple instead. Now Joel's head was ringing like Hells Bells thinking of how to fix his situation because he knows Money Talks and he was low on it. He pondered grabbing his Big Gun and T.N.T and ...

... and he woke up. It was just a dream. His account was Back in Black.

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3 replies
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JoeDawson
February 10, 2010 9:31 AM
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Have you ever heard \"Titles\" by Barclay James Harvest... The entire song uses bits and pieces and titles of Beatles songs... and its a good song too...

\"Long and Winding Road... that leads to your door... Here comes the sun its all right, people shout for more...\"

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JoeDawson
February 10, 2010 9:33 AM
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Buy it on Itunes.... It will only cost you $297.00!

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
February 10, 2010 12:06 AM
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He asked his dad to send Lawyers Guns and Money so he could storm Mapple?

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humphrmi
February 10, 2010 12:03 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

I've called CC companies myself about recurring fraudulent charges, and I've been told that CC companies can't block any charges, as long as the account is open in good standing. They can certainly issue chargebacks, though... and each chargeback costs Apple extra money.

If the OP is only interested in stopping the madness, then unfortunately closing the account and getting a new Amex may be the only quick option.

Although if the OP is willing to deal with a lot of paperwork, and wants to \"stick it\" to Apple for not doing anything to stop it, he could simply leave the account open and request a charge-back for each and every invalid charge. Eventually, Apple would be inundated with charge-back fees, and would figure out how to stop it.

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johnjamesthree
February 10, 2010 1:09 AM
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Why not just issue a new card with a new number and chargeback the rest.Simple solution if that is the actual case. I want to know how they charged it 300 times? Was it multiple charges every day or was this over the course of time?

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1 replies
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whogots
February 10, 2010 11:15 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Yeah, it's a simple solution, but moving to a new card may cause rectal discomfort. (Since we have at least one humorless person in this thread: That means \"might be a pain in the ass.\")

Apple caused the problem, so it's stupid that the OP should have to suffer.

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Droog
February 10, 2010 1:41 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

In Soviet Russia, Apple owns you.

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DanKelley98
February 10, 2010 7:35 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

\"I have called Apple to have them stop charging me and they told me the only thing I can do is cancel my card\"

Translation: \"Just because our system is screwed up, its you that has to cancel your card.\" Hey Jobs, its really nice to know that Apple is looking out for their customers....

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Razor512
February 10, 2010 7:54 AM
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when this is happening, report it to the credit card company and say there illegal uses of your card, then contact the FTC and report the issue to them. you gave apple a chance and they blew it so just report it to as many authorities as possible, this will help protect you and it will help apple notice that they have to fix their own problems.

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hunter3742
February 10, 2010 8:00 AM
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Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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asten77
February 10, 2010 10:22 AM
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I can't say this is too terribly surprising to see from Apple, given that they are the e-commerce geniuses that run perhaps the only large store on the entire internet that has to be taken offline for 30+ minutes to add or change items on it.

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Tiaris
February 10, 2010 10:31 AM
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Shouldn't that magnitude of charges [or pending/on-hold charges] be putting the OP over his/her credit limit? I hope AmEx isn't charging an over-limit fee for this. If they are - especially if they've been notified of the issue - there are more problems here than iTunes going infinite loop happy.

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1 replies
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psm321
February 10, 2010 1:14 PM
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I think you've hit on the problem. They confused their street address with a programming strategy.

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Joe
February 10, 2010 10:59 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

I had the same thing happen to me recently. AMEX did a chargeback to Apple. My Apple account was immediately disabled by Apple. It took me over a month and my first child to get it reopened. I was told it is Apple's policy to disable account for any chargeback

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jkeating
February 10, 2010 11:51 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

iTunes finally responds:

Dear Joel,

Thank you for contacting iTunes Store Customer Support. My name is Venkatesh and I will be assisting you today.

I understand from your mail that you purchased iTunes Plus upgrade for your entire library. I came to know that you do not need the upgrade and want the charge to be reversed since the upgrade cost to very high. I am sorry for whatever has happened.

Finding a solution for you is important to me, so I have requested assistance with the issue you reported. You will receive an email after the matter has been investigated and further information is available.

Thank you for your patience. Apple wants your iTunes experience to be as enjoyable as possible.

Sincerely,

Venkatesh
iTunes Store Customer Support

Please Note: I work on Tuesday to Saturday 07.00 AM to 04.00 PM CST.

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to assist you. You may receive an AppleCare survey email; any feedback you provide would be greatly appreciated.

All I can say is WOW

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dmuth
February 10, 2010 12:01 PM
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I'm surprised with all the comments of making 300 chargebacks, nobody has made any references to Sparta. Anyway...

I too would like to jump on the 300 chargeback wagon. I work as a software developer and have done a fair bit of e-commerce during my career. There is simply NO excuse to charge a credit card over and over to the tune of 300 times. None whatsoever. Either Apple has incompetent programmers or (equally likely) the company is \"asleep at the wheel\" and not actively monitoring that part of their internal systems. (Logfiles, people. Come on, it isn't that hard.)

I eagerly await to see what happens when Apple gets hit with 300 chargebacks.

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