![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-141352-100x100.png\")
As a waiter I'm completely with the restaurant on this one.
Everybody who is going to say that tipping is optional, you are completely correct. But there are consequences to tipping poorly sometimes. Take your business elsewhere if you don't like the staff taking issue with what I assume are continuously stingy tips.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/css/images/default.gif\")
So essentially, if I do not provide a non mandatory adequate tip, I will be refused proper and expected customer service at a restaurant? Spare me. At least you get tipped. I work in customer service too and I'm not even given a thank you. Tips should never be expected because they're an optional courtesy. And if by neglecting to provide said courtesy to someone that was not required in the first place, when in all other walks of life that courtesy is unnecessary, why oh why then, must you or me be penalized for doing something that is widely accepted as an un-required--even silly seeming-- transaction everywhere else?
I tip when you deserve it. If you're a shitty waiter, or I find hair in my food, so forth. I'm sorry, but I paid for a good meal and service. Not expectations. I don't give money to brash beggars and I don't tip where it's undeserved.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1523452-100x100.png\")
I agree with you, it's abhorrant, and the manager should have quietly and politely spoken to her about the need to tip fairly. But ultimatly, they're shooting themselves in the foot by giving themselves bad press by kicking her out. Was she probably a bad tipper and an asshole customer? Yeah. I'm sure you've got bad tippers that you put up with b/c they're nice people. But when it comes to the service industry, you have to put up a good face, because the public is never on the side of the guy who wants to part them with their money.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-318831-100x100.png\")
Actually, there are no consequences for poor tipping, since poor tipping is (supposed to be, anyway) a consequence of poor service. Poor service results in poor tip, and the scales balance. Trying to punish someone for poor tipping is a new transaction, for want of a better word, and imbalances the interaction.
Which would be logical except for the fact that there are plenty of people that do not tip well (if at all) for good service. Ergo, you cannot absolutely correlate a poor tip with poor service.
From the video, she definitely seems like the type of person who just leaves $50 on a bil that's $46.50 and thinks that's a good tip. I do think that the manager should have asked her in the past what was wrong with the service. If she was just being spiteful or thinks 10% is a good tip then that's the service the restaurant should start giving her. Make her wait an hour for a table then sit her at the worst table. Let her ask for a soda and don't bring it. she'll just stop coming
I'm sorry, but I think that is a fair tip. On a busy night, how many total minutes do you think that waiter spent on you? Let's say a total of 10 minutes was spent serving you, you've got $3.50 for those 10 minutes, which works out to $21 dollars an hour for carrying things to someone's table. Seems fair to me. It's not the customers fault that the US and Canada want customers to pay the wages of someone employed by someone else. I fail to see the reason why these countries don't change the law to be inline with Europe and have the restaurants pay a fair wage.
Actually, your statement is completely unfair. There's a lot more to serving than \"just carrying things out to someone's table\".
Tipping is a form of speech. Nobody, no matter how little money they make, has a right to a tip. Any required tip is either blackmail or a bribe.
Her rights to speech don't apply here - the restaurant isn't an agent of the government. Provided they're not violating the Civil Rights Act and any applicable state laws, they have the right to refuse her service.
This restaurant's policy is a lot saner than that other restaurant's, where they call the cops and have their customers arrested for not tipping.
Tipping is optional. Getting served by the restaurant is optional. I'm kind of OK with that.
Of course, I'd be a lot more OK with restaurants paying their waitstaff a reasonable salary and doing away with the tip entirely, but I guess that would just be too ... un-American.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-377742-100x100.png\")
No way. The person is willing to tip, just not 18%.
15% is the universal standard anyways, it is BS that they will put 18% on the check automatically for 3 people.
When I worked at a restaraunt we did have regular that never tipped. They were completely ghetto. Eventually no one would serve them and the manager had to go to their table and ask them to leave because they never tip. They made sense and bitched about racism. They never came back. In cases like that, it makes sense. It does not make sense to kick someone out just because they will not tip 18%. If they tip 15% then there is no problems.
Now if they are a regular and they reguarly tip less than 15% then it would have been better for the manager to ask why they have a problem with the service and give them no excuse to tip less than 15%.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1238059-100x100.png\")
Je suis d'accord. If the servers and chef had asked not to have to serve her, there was a history with that customer.
You're not agreeing with anything. You're arbitrarily siding with the restaurant over a regular customer who always left a good tip and never under-tipped? It's just her word against theirs and there are no facts to corroborate the nature of her tipping. The only thing we do know is that the restaurant forced her to pay an 18% tip once, and she did it, and then she found 300 other local customers who agreed that this restaurant's business practices were unfair. 300!
I'd like to see them try that crap on me. Just the sense of entitlement with such a requirement would oblige me not to leave that tip, and to dispute that portion of my bill.
I will freely admit that I don't tip well, but I always tip at least the customary 15%, and I believe that the wait staff *earns* their tip, and that they *earn* anything above that.
She didnt find 300 people who agreed with her, she most likely phrased it as \"dont you think not serving a person because they are black is wrong?\" and then got 300 people to agree with her.
Everyone knows that black people are terrible tippers and even if you give terrific service they may leave a 15% tip but usually 10% would be normal for great service. I had a friend who ended up with a table of 3 black women like her that ended up getting their meal comped for having to wait so long(so they say, it was like 20 mins) for their food, so she runs around getting them drinks or anything they wanted then they leave and left no tip! The manager met them at the door, asked them why and the lady just shouted that the meal was free so there was no tip, then proceeded to scream that they were just saying they are doing this because they are black.
This is why society as a whole is turning numb to black people screaming racism, most of the time is just because they are being a-holes and nothing to do with skin color.
Um, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if she really was a good tipper, the restaurant wouldn't banish her.
\"You're not agreeing with anything. You're arbitrarily siding with the restaurant over a regular customer who always left a good tip and never under-tipped? \"
It's not arbitrary. This behavior is in keeping with a non/extreme undertipper. Normal, considerate people wouldn't complain to the media or would FIND ANOTHER RESTAURANT. Instead, they seek some sort of narcissistic \"vengeance\".
Whereas the restaurant is blameless despite their narcissistic demand they be tipped for incredible service whether they provide it or not?
\"There are consequences to tipping poorly sometimes\"
And there are consequences for bad service as well. As a waiter you should try to provide the highest level of service that is possible.
From my personal experience, I've undertipped (a 1 percent tip at times) for BAD service. I am talking 35 minutes to even come over and take a drink order, then a further 35 minutes to take our dinner order. We didn't want to leave the establishment because, gasp, we were hungry.
Back in my younger days I would leave tips in change IN the remains of the food. That was reserved for the worst of the worst though and I haven't had to do that in quite some time. If your waiter is bad enough that they don't even clear your finished plates, they kind of deserve it.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1530836-100x100.png\")
I was at the local Macaroni Grill with my wife a few years back and a similar example of non-service plagued us. It was after 9pm on a Tuesday (they closed at 11pm) and we were one of two tables that were occupied. Our \"server\" would take anywhere from 10-20 minute in between trips to our table and always pretended to be exhausted from running around so much.
The kicker here was that we knew exactly where he was and what he was doing when not giving us service, he was talking with the family at the other table, 20 feet from us. We were too hungry to go somewhere else by the time our food got out to use, and it was lukewarm at best.
My tip for his shite service, \"pay more attention to all of your tables and you might get a tip\" written on the bill. We have only returned for take out service three times since as opposed to eating there once or twice a month before.
Wow, I'd like to say a lot of stuff right now to you that would get me disemvoweled.
When in college I worked as a server, and I'd have to say at least 50% of the time a low tip has NOTHING to do with the service. For example, anecdotally, I have received a 70 cent tip on a 20+ meal because we, at a chain restaurant, could not provide the customer with breaded fish. Did we have breading? No. Did we have the kind of fish they wanted? No. But this was somehow my problem as the sever, for not being able to provide them with something that in no way even approaches any of the existing menu items. Before telling them that I was sorry and we couldn't handle their request I did check with the managers and chef to see if something like what they wanted was possible - it was not. So since I couldn't provide them with something that was impossible does that really justify me MAKING LESS THEN MINIMUM WAGE for the hour?
'And there are consequences for bad service as well.'
Yes, on an individual basis I completely agree.
But do you think a restaurant would ban a regular due to THEIR poor service? It just makes no sense. All signs point to this lady being a chronically bad tipper and the staff had had enough.
All I have to say to people who don't tip/tip below what is considered fair is this: of all the people a waiter serves in a single day, you know the vast majority of them follow standard tipping procedures. So you know when you go out to eat that your server is acting under the assumption that you're part of that majority, and are going to tip them fairly for their service.
So next time you go out to eat, before your server can even get you a drink, tell them 'Hi Jeff. I just want to let you know before we get started that I don't believe in tipping. It's nothing to do with you, it's just a practice that I don't feel is fair.'
Now the playing field is level, and your server isn't working under the assumption he'll be compensated for the service he gives you. Enjoy your meal.
If their service at this specific Restaurant is as stellar as you are making it, ONE person undertipping shouldn't effect the overall take home from the wait staff and the kitchen. The fact that they were throwing mandatory 18% on her bill makes it sound like they are fed up with EVERYONE'S undertipping. Perhaps it's time for Management to take a look at why they are forced to take these measures.
As for letting the waiter know before hand, I used to estimate what my bill would be when ordering and leave the tip on the end of the table. I wouldn't touch it unless the service started going down hill. While using this practice, I only had to drop the tip three times. All of which were for pretty serious 'violations'. Messing up an order after sending it back three times is a bit much, along with chatting on your cell phone WHILE taking our order. That's just plain rude.
'If their service at this specific Restaurant is as stellar as you are making it, ONE person undertipping shouldn't effect the overall take home from the wait staff and the kitchen.'
Obviously. The two important factors here, if my assumption is correct, are the terribly low tips she leaves and the fact that she left them ROUTINELY. However you feel about tipping, less than 15% is going to be construed as insulting. That happens with the same person again and again, they're going to get fed up. Like that guy who hated Tim Horton's coffee but kept coming back. This lady kept leaving bad tips but kept coming back, to the point that the restaurant would just rather not deal with her.
'The fact that they were throwing mandatory 18% on her bill makes it sound like they are fed up with EVERYONE'S undertipping.'
Um, no, because they were only applying that rule to this lady. Right?
'As for letting the waiter know before hand, I used to estimate what my bill would be when ordering and leave the tip on the end of the table. I wouldn't touch it unless the service started going down hill.'
Yeah, I've heard of that before, and it's one of the crappiest things you can do to a waiter, in my opinion. Like saying 'see your money, monkey? dance for it'.
And that really doesn't have anything to do with my idea of letting the waiter know ahead of time that you don't tip.
Finally, I wish people would stop telling stories about the time their waiter was 'around the corner on his cell phone while my glass was empty' or whatever. As if anybody would defend a tip for that kind of neglect/poor service.
Sounds like a \"Cheers\" episode. Customer tells waitress Carla that the money on the table is her tip, and for each 'infraction' her tip is lowered.
Carla splashes beer on his face, he removes a bill. She repeats this action, resulting in another bill removed.
When all the 'tip' money has been removed from the table, Carla slaps some of her own money on the table, and dumps the rest of the beer all over him.
At that point I don't know if I'd get the Manager, or order a beer and splash back. ::grins::
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1020806-100x100.png\")
Upon which Carla pounces you and shoves her tongue down your throat.
Norm then raises his beer and says\" Maybe that will take the edge off for a coupe of days!\"
cue canned laughter.
That is humiliating and despicable to make someone pick their income from your garbage.
That was the whole point. When we finish our meal, we assume that the wait staff is going to, you know, do their jobs and clear our table. In that particular occasion we had to go to the Manager to get our check because our waiter vanished. We found him in a corner booth counting his tip money and chatting on his cell phone. This wasn't the only problem we had with him during our stay though. We had ordered some food with very minor special requests, no cream in the Oatmeal, No Cole Slaw with our Burgers and Coke No Ice, every request was ignored. When he came by and asked \"How is everything?\" he walked away before we could even say a word.
As I said, I haven't tipped like that since I was a teenager, but should the need arise, I will again.
So you prefer outdoing others' disgusting behavior?
Why do you feel that someone acting badly should be treated with the utmost respect, even though they are unwilling to do so themselves?
I prefer using conditioning to stop bad behavior. Do good things, ie good service, get a good treat. Do bad things, ie poor service, get bad things. If the waiter hadn't been so cold towards us and ignored some pretty basic special requests, we wouldn't have acted like punk kids.
Oh, a bit more backstory, this happened when I was 19. I've always been well dressed, I don't smoke and I treat my elders with respect. I EXPECT people to reciprocate the respect that I give to them because that is just polite. When your waiter is snubbing you and other tables just to count his tip money, it's a serious lack of respect.
That whole two wrongs don't make a right thing. Disrespecting someone back doesn't make you better or right and rarely teaches them anything. I just can't imagine being that demeaning to a stranger for something like bad service. I'd go the complaint route first.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1526332-100x100.png\")
YOU chose that job. YOU know the game. Tipping is optional and if you can deal with the random asshole customer leaving a bad tip or no tip then it is time to find a new line of work.
Tipping should never be expected. Tips are a reward for good service. If the establishment cannot live up to what a customer deems good service then a tip should not be paid.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-762676-100x100.png\")
\"Tipping should never be expected.\"
...actually, it is - by the laws governing worker compensation for food service serving. Those workers are allowed by law to be paid less than minimum wage, because tipping is expected.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-267279-100x100.png\")
To a point. If the waiter does not make enough in tips to equal or exceed minimum wage, the employer must compensate them the difference. This means someone regularly sucking will get fired.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1378135-100x100.png\")
Tips are income. You realize that some/most people (at least in Alabama and Louisiana, where I've served) that serve get paid only $2.13/hr, right? And tips ARE the income. Your \"paycheck\" goes towards taxes.
they can refuse service for any damn reason, as long as it isn't discriminatory. I know that I've refused to serve a habitually bad tipping customer. It hurts my income, what with a 3% tip-out whether or not the customer tips me. I refuse to pay to serve someone.
And if they don't make the minimum wage, the restaraunt has to make up the difference.
TIPS are an indicator of how good your service is. I took my step mother out to a restaraunt for her birthday the other day. The server was excellent. She took the orders directly from my 5 year old and 2 year old (my 2 year old can say grilled cheese, lol) and was patient and took care of everything we could have needed. She got over 20 bucks for a tip.
If you don't keep my drink full, or act like I am bothering you, I leave a dollar.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1224812-100x100.png\")
They may get paid as little as $2.13/hr, but if they aren't make at least minimum wage after tips the employer must pay them the difference. If everyone stopped tipping anything, tipped employees would make at least $7.25/hr. And the wage doesn't just go toward taxes. That may turn out to be the case, but the waiter would have to be doing well enough that their $2.13/hr was equal to their withholding, medicare, and social security tax. At 40 hours a week, the base wage gets them $85.2.
Looking at withholding tables for weekly pay with zero withholding allowances, I work out that they would need to make between 670 and 680 dollars, or 17 dollars an hour, for their 2.13 per hour to go all towards tax. Thats 80 withholding, and about 5 dollars for the combined social security and medicare tax.
So stop perpetuating this myth that all waiters must automatically pay their base wage in taxes and that not getting tipped causes them to make less than minimum wage.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-61435-100x100.png\")
You know that servers have taxes withheld based on an assumed percentage of their checks, right? I believe the government assumes they are getting tipped 10% and withholds based on that.
So yes, all of their base wage probably does go to taxes.
you still realize minimum wage doesn't equal living wage, correct? and most servers don't work a full 40 hours?
Minimum wage is set by the government, and if it does not equal a living wage then it has a problem.
Underemployment is also a problem caused by the current economic situation. I am underemployed. I work 25 hours a week at $8.25 an hour. Or about 28 hours on minimum wage. In an entire year, I make what a person drawing unemployment for an entire year makes. I am not in a job where I am generally tipped and have never been tipped. Like a server, I work closely with customers, though with me its one on one and one at a time so they have my complete attention. No one pays me for being underemployed. What makes a tipped employee more 'deserving' of extra money versus anyone else(and there are quite a few right now) in such a position?
it's not extra money - it's their income. Look above - and at a fair labor practices poster - and it'll state that the reason why they are allowed to be paid less is that the income is EXPECTED to be made up via tipping.
Money beyond minimum wage is extra. As I said, the employer must make up any difference between the amount they make and minimum wage. Its called a tip credit. Pretty much, its the employer saying my employees should only make minimum wage, but if I pay them minimum wage they'll make far more in tips cause people tip them. So, I take what is called a tip credit. I pay them less and expect them to make the tip credit amount in tips. If they don't, I have to pay them more to make up for it. Tipped or not, servers will make at least $7.25 an hour. There is no getting around it if the laws are being followed accordingly.
In states where that is allowed, the restaurant has to make up for the difference between the server's total pay and minimum wage. So if I get $3 per hour and $4 per hour in tips, and minimum wage is $8 per hour, the restaurant has to pay me the extra $1 per hour.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-344098-100x100.png\")
I'm curious how that is tracked and accounted for. Does the waitperson take a wad of singles and change, throw it on the counter for the manager to count and log at the end of their shift? It seems unlikely, but then again, I don't know the underpinnings of a restaurant well enough to know what is going on as far as pay is concerned. I have heard of estimating tips for waitpersons and the tax ramifications associated, but I have never heard of a restaurant picking up the difference if the person has a bad tip day...
During the short time I was slinging coffees, we were paid minimum wage and had tipshare, but it was more of a bonus thing to me - I don't recall claiming it on taxes.
Waitstaff are usually required to report their tips at the end of every shift for both tax purposes and minimum-wage checking purposes. Admittedly, every server I have ever known have underreported their tips, so self-reporting is clearly not foolproof, but that is how it's done.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1280310-100x100.png\")
If thats the case, why would she go back repeatedly to an establishment that gave her poor service....and then be surprised they are banning her?
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1524404-100x100.png\")
As a waitress, I wonder that all the time. One particular couple comes to my mind, they come in every Friday night. I just waited on them tonight as a matter of fact. Every single Friday night, the guy and his wife come in. We argue over who has to wait on him, and eventually someone goes to his table. Every week, he asks when our flounder was delivered. If it's not within a certain time period, he asks if our chicken is fresh or if it's been sitting around for a while.If he's in the mood for chicken, but it's not fresh, he will literally wait thirty minutes for us to make it fresh for him. Otherwise he usually orders a barbque sandwich and onion rings, and his wife gets baby back ribs. Then his wife's hushpuppies are cold, and the coleslaw on his sandwich \"just doesn't taste right\". His tea isn't sweet enough so he gets lemonade instead (after he's drank about half of his tea) (also, may i add, there are sugar packets on the table..if it's not sweet enough...add some sugar. revolutionary idea). He'll usually try to ask for a free dessert for all the complaining he's had to do. We tell him no, and after about an hour and a half, he and his wife leave, and there's a lovely pile of pennies, dimes, and nickels waiting for me on their table.
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There's got to be more to this story...but ultimately, the restaurant can refuse to serve anyone they want to, for any reason.
...well, so long as it's not blatantly something like racism - like a \"whites only lunch counter.\"
I have worked in restaurants before and they don't call it a \" 'n-word' tip\" for no reason.
I never understood this. So you can refuse to serve someone because they smell, are ugly, are short, whose clothes offend you, etc, etc. But the moment you state the reason for not serving them is their skin color, then it's totally wrong?
I'm sure the \"more\" is that she's a complete bitch to the servers and/or picky about how the food is prepared.