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Feed The Weenies

February 6, 2010 8:46 PM

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She doesn't deserve any damages. The container cautions that the contents are hot. Coffee is inherently hot when served properly. She has a reasonable responsibility to take reasonable precautions against spillage ( just like she does when she fills the tank in that car with gas- REASONABLE precautions like not jamming a Lucky Strike in her mouth and lighting up) .
Mc Donalds (and other restaurants) should call these money grabbers bluff and take these cases to court and get them in front of a jury. If they lose ,they lose. If they win,the bounty hunting attorneys that midwife these things will think twice.

23 replies

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February 7, 2010 7:37 AM

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I am very sad to see both your take on it (jerk) and all the people voting against this woman. If you'd RTFA, it says \"the plastic top fell off and spilled very hot coffee on plaintiff's upper right leg\".

That means the lunkhead who prepared and handing her the coffee was careless, didn't put the lid on sufficiently, and BURNED HER.
It's real easy to take a dump on other people reading their situations, but let's watch you bitch and moan when they do it to you...be an efing human and put yourself in her shoes.

Nice to know you want your fellow consumers to suffer physical injury and never get a dime in well deserved compensation.

I hope she gets a barracuda attorney and a consumer activist judge, and therefore a HUGE settlement.

McDonalds - Put the fricking lid on tight from now on. Period. They do the same thing to me with soda all the time - hand it to me wet with a loose lid. No that won't injure me but annoying as hell.

\"

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coujo

February 8, 2010 2:41 AM

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so if you make coffee at home, and spill it on your own lap, do you go and sue the company who made the cup or the coffee maker?

no, its your own damned fault. you didnt think that it wasnt too hot to cause burns, scarring or other severe trauma, but that doesnt entitle you to any rewards for screwing up. what makes it any different in a resteraunt? the fact that some teenager prepaired it instead of you?

simply because your not the one fixing the coffee, you arent held liable for any incidents happening with the coffee is a wrong statement. so wrong that it shows whats happening in the US these days, people arent taking responsability for they're own actions and holding the rest of the world accountable for all actions.

do i think this person deserves something? not really, its an accident, similar to slipping on ice in the parking lot. the most the store is legally liable for is calling for medical help, after that its your responsability. (unless they're your employer, then its a different story)

sueing the company will only make you look like an idiot. sueing the person who spilled coffee on you, thats a possibility. but what are you going to get from a teenager? his car?

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February 8, 2010 5:32 AM

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So, if I prepare and hand you a hot beverage that anyone with a brain knows can do serious damage if not handled correctly, and I place a lid loosely on top, causing burns to you, then I'm totally in the clear and it's your fault? Like, once my hand isn't touching it, it can totally be rigged (purposefully or through carelessness) to explode? Sweet, I think I have a new favorite game for sociopaths. Points are awarded by surface area covered in scar tissue.

Have you ever grabbed a paper cup with a loose lid? They can be squirrely and spill easy, especially if you're surprised. I don't see why you're so fast to vilify the burned woman, she's not even asking for an insane amount of money. Less than $10,000 seems almost modest compared to how much some people seek.

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cybrczch

February 7, 2010 8:02 PM

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Voting for McDonalds, just because of you.

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Griking

February 7, 2010 5:15 PM

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If you really think that McDonalds be held responsible and liable for anything in this story then let it be for not putting the top on correctly and not because their hot coffee is hot. But even proving this would be a stretch. Who's to say that the customer didn't squeeze the Styrofoam cup when she took it which would normally cause the top to come off?

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February 7, 2010 12:41 PM

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as someone who serves hundreds of cups of coffee a day, let this lunkhead tell you how its done. There is NO WAY you can move a cup of HOT coffee from a counter, out of a window and hand down to someone in a car without the lid being on properly. The worker would have already burned themselves 5 times before it would have happened.

You want to know what happened? The worker held the cup out and the lady grabbed it like a crazy person. Squeezed it, lid popped off, coffee in her lap cause she was stupid.

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February 7, 2010 2:04 PM

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Yeah there is, I've seen people do it. If the lid is partway on but not all the way, it usually pops off at the slightest provocation.

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February 8, 2010 12:38 AM

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You're absolutely right. And the lid would have popped off immediately upon transfer of the cup, and the coffee would have spilled on the ground outside the car window. Not on her leg.

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Wolfbird

February 12, 2010 1:55 PM

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I think you're onto something, there.

In my local drivethrus the clerk can't reach into your car (probably for a good reason). The point of contact happens outside the car and outside the restaurant. It's true that a McPloyee probably isn't a rocket scientist and is likely to screw up the operation of securing a lid sometimes, but if it was good enough to survive changing hands, any further mishaps appear to be self-inflicted.

If you have sausage fingers and handle items like an inebriated gorrila and/or like to squeeze your coffee cup until the lid pops off, how is this McDonald's fault exactly?

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vesper

February 7, 2010 11:46 AM

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Ohhh I like your response Defense Attorney \"feedtheweenies\".

As for Carmey, you sound like a typical female liberal and most of you want, want, want without considering your actions as being accountable. So would you like someone to hand-feed you the drink also? Wipe your chin? Change your diapers when you poo? When does it end? I would love see you in the 16th century trying to fend for yourself and how long would you last?

Both parties in every situation have reasonable expectations from and to each other. Past a certain age there is a presumed awareness of one's responsibility to others and not just oneself.

If I were to be the opposing counsel to this woman's actions, I would really dive into what SHE did as she grabbed her coffee:

1. Did she grab with whole or with fingers
2. Did she lift the lid off before driving away?
3. Did she do ANYTHING which could have cause HER to be the one that caused that problem after she left the drive-through?
4. What did the drive-thru attendant see?

As an \"lawyer acqaintance\" once said to me, \"1st rule of law school; everyone's a liar, especially your client because they all want to look better than the opposing counsel\". This woman ain't telling the whole story.

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February 8, 2010 12:41 AM

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The local McDonald's here has a camera directed at the customer at the drive-thru window. They'd have a clear video of what transpired. However, I could see where McDonald's would pay her lawsuit because it's cheaper than the cost of defending themselves in court.

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February 7, 2010 2:03 PM

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What exactly is a typical female liberal? Because saying shit like that makes you sound like a typical misogynistic Neanderthal.

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Noir

February 7, 2010 2:50 PM

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A woman who \"want, want, want without considering your actions as being accountable. \" fits very well with the description, just like most of the republicans are retarded and the people who sue for nothing are complete jackasses.

From the info I guess she grabbed the coffee from the lid, it opened and spilled. Or as others said she squezzed it so the lid poped up.

At most I would pay her the medical bills, but I'm putting my hands on the fire saying that she's just dumb and doesn't knows how to handle a hot cup of coffee.

srsly, why s ths n Cnsmrst?

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February 7, 2010 2:36 PM

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Huh. I thought it made him sound like someone who just can't get laid and therefore is very angry at the world.

We could both be right, I s'pose.

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February 7, 2010 11:08 AM

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I hear some people actually drink coffee from cups that don't even have lids. What happens then? Should a careless coffee drinker sue the company that made the coffee cup when they spill it on themselves at home?

Coffee is hot. If you're old enough to drive a car and order coffee, you're old enough to know that it's hot. I figured that out when I was 7 years old and I was brewing coffee at home and serving it to my parents in OPEN COFFEE MUGS. If a 7-year-old can manage to handle coffee and know that it's hot, what the bloody hell is this woman's excuse?

The only thing McDonald's failed to do was wipe her ass, which they shouldn't be expected to.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:12 AM

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You know, I brew coffee at home, I've spilled it on myself, and it wasn't hot enough to give me serious burns. Maybe McDonald's should figure out that you can make hot coffee that isn't DANGEROUS.

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Griking

February 7, 2010 5:26 PM

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I don't think that it's the temperature so much as it is where the coffee is being spilled in most of these cases. When people spill coffee on themselves in a drive thru they're generally going to spill it on a sensitive area like your thigh or even worse.

Another issue is that there's often a lot of differences between the height of the drive thru window and the height of the customer's vehicle and how far from the window the customer's vehicle was. Was she driving a tiny compact car and need to reach up to take the coffee? Did she not pull close enough to the windows which caused her to have to reach further than she was comfortable doing so? There's a lot of factors to consider in these cases.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 8:16 PM

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Sure, and those are factors that a company selling hot liquids from a drive-through window needs to take into consideration. But the temperature of the coffee is important. Hot and dangerous hot are not the same.

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Luca

February 7, 2010 9:02 AM

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Maybe she should act like a responsible adult and check the lid next time instead of assuming someone who works at McDonald's did it properly.

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February 7, 2010 9:19 AM

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At a drive-thru? Depending on the height of the car and the window it could very well be too late to check by the time it's handed over. Not to mention- isn't that what I'm paying for?
(well, not literally me- this is why I never order any hot drinks- I don't care if it's 10 below outside, give me a frappuccino.)

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wrjohnston91283

February 7, 2010 8:38 AM

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It may not have been McDonald's fault, directly. I worked at a coffee shop for several years, and we often had \"bad cups\". The cup manufacturers often have some of the cups that are crush on the edge, or paper cup with a bad seam. The lids \"fit\" when we put them on, but if you hold the cup in just the wrong spot, the lid will \"pop\" off, since the rim isn't a perfect circle anymore.

Now, if that were to be the case, I'm sure McDonalds would still have some responsibility, since they were the final link before the consumer, but I have seen prior cases in my line of work were the retailer and manufacturer share joint responsibility.

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February 6, 2010 11:29 PM

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I'm sticking this reply here, not aimed at you, Feed the Weenies, because several people in this thread keep referring to the Liebeck case when they only have a smidgen of knowledge about it.

First and foremost - Liebeck did not win her case because the coffee was too hot. The case was won on the grounds that McDonald's did not do enough to warn her as to how hot the coffee was.

Second - I keep seeing different temperatures floating around as to what coffee \"should\" be.
Keep in mind that any liquid over 120 Degrees will burn you.

The National Coffee Association of the USA says this about how to brew and serve coffee: http://www.ncausa.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=71

\"Your brewer should maintain a water temperature between 195 - 205 degrees Fahrenheit for optimal extraction.\"

\"Pour it into a warmed mug or coffee cup so that it will maintain its temperature as long as possible. Brewed coffee begins to lose its optimal taste moments after brewing so only brew as much coffee as will be consumed immediately.\"

The coffee in the Libeck case was estimated to be around 185-190 when served (based on McDonald's quality requirements and the degree of burns on Libeck). Thus the coffee was served below temperature recommended for coffee... i.e.: It wasn't too hot.

Please familiarize yourself with the facts of the case before you start spouting off your own \"facts\".

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:28 AM

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First and foremost - Liebeck did not win her case because the coffee was too hot. The case was won on the grounds that McDonald's did not do enough to warn her as to how hot the coffee was.

Only half right. The coffee was too hot - that is, it was hotter than an ordinary consumer would reasonably expect - AND McDonald's did not warn her.

I don't get why people are having trouble understanding the difference between 'brewing temperature', 'holding temperature' and 'serving temperature'.

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February 7, 2010 11:17 AM

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So they recommend that you drink boiling hot, or close to it, coffee?

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February 7, 2010 2:05 PM

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Try a little science on for size. Water at atmospheric pressure boils at 212 degree Fahrenheit. No less, no more. Not 195. Not 205. Not even 213. Only. At. 212.

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Sian

February 7, 2010 3:10 PM

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Not a coffee drinker, so,

Is coffee supposed to be consumed at groin-blistering (and presumably mouth-blistering) temperature?

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Griking

February 7, 2010 5:31 PM

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If it's not brewed hot enough it will taste like garbage.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 9:30 PM

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Only if the coffee is cheap crap. That's why McDonald's brews it that hot in the first place.

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PsiCop

February 7, 2010 11:11 AM

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You're correct, this is not the Liebert case. In that case the plaintiff spilled the coffee on herself. In this one, the employee contributed to the spilling. That's a basic mechanistic difference.

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 11:30 AM

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How did the employee spill it on her? Was the person inside her car serving her the coffee?

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PsiCop

February 7, 2010 4:23 PM

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The spill occurred while the coffee was being handed over. In other words, in both people's hands. I guess you could try to say it was the customer's fault only, but I'd say the employee has 50% blame.

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February 7, 2010 8:53 AM

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If a life time of experience didn't prepare her for the fact that coffee is hot, I don't know how much more warning McDonald's could have given her. We can't cater to the least bright among us all the time. Sometimes we just have to accept the fact that stupid people will sometimes get hurt.

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awer25

February 7, 2010 12:25 AM

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The recommended temperature for brewing is not the recommended temperature for serving.

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February 7, 2010 12:38 AM

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Umm... they tell you to serve it in a method that maintains its temperature and consume it immediately... so, errr... what was your point again?

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February 7, 2010 2:08 PM

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Wait, you drink 195 degree liquids? Have you contacted the Guinness people yet?

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February 7, 2010 9:23 AM

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That you shouldn't be taking their advice? It's physically impossible to drink something that's that hot and not get internal burns. If it'll burn you when it spills on your external parts, what makes you think that your internal parts will take it any better?

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awer25

February 7, 2010 2:19 AM

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Consume it immediately? You can't consume a liquid that's 195*-205*.

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awer25

February 7, 2010 12:33 AM

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Additionally, the NCA is giving the idea conditions for brewing and drinking coffee - which is not in a vehicle where spills are likely. If you're serving coffee to drivers, you can't hand them a cup of 190* coffee with a loose lid, and just say \"hey, the cup says the coffee is hot\".

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February 7, 2010 12:39 AM

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My post was directly regarding the Libeck case - not this one. If the coffee was served with a loose lid, that's a different story all together than what happened in Libeck.

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r081984

February 6, 2010 9:53 PM

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I say she deserves damages because the employee spilt the drink on her. She did not spill it on herself. She is asking for so little money that Mc Donalds will just pay her off.

The big coffee lawsuit from years ago was when the person spilt the hot coffee on themselves and then they said it was too hot and should not have burned them from spilling on themselves. That was BS.

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cmarie14

February 6, 2010 10:55 PM

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The quote from the lawsuit above says \"the plaintiff took the cup of coffee and the plastic top fell off and spilled...\"

She had the cup of coffee in her hands when it spilled - not the employee. She likely grabbed it from the top, which I've stupidly done, and no matter how tight the top is, when you squeeze the cup directly below the lid and release the suction/snap without holding onto the cup from the bottom, you *will* drop the cup. It was her own fault, if I'm reading the quote right.

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February 6, 2010 10:42 PM

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Here of all places people should've paid attention to the facts of the matter. The woman in the previous lawsuit had second degree burns and had to go to the hospital. I've known a lot of people who've spilled coffee on themselves. None of them have had to go to the hospital because of it. That coffee was brewed way hotter than coffee is usually brewed and all she had asked was for McDonalds to cover her medical bills. If that's unreasonable, then I don't know what defines reasonable.

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:07 PM

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Actually it seems like she is the one claiming the employee did it, it is more likely though she just squeezed the top too tightly when she took it and spilled coffee on herself and now is suing the company because she was stupid.

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thisistobehelpful

February 7, 2010 1:15 AM

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Eh... I've spilled coffee on my hand because the employee didn't push down hard enough. This happens regularly too and is more often with styrofoam than paper cups because paper ones have a an actual lip due to the rolled top and the lid is held on more like a tupperware lid rather than something just being pushed down.

If you don't push the lid down into a firm seal, handling the cup in a perfectly normal strength grip can pop the lid off and squeeze the cup to where liquid will come out. This happens with soda cups as well. You know, lid doesn't go down and you pick up the flimsy paper cup you have a soda spill?

I've never spilt it in my lap but this could easily be the employee's fault. They are supposed to make sure the lid's on tight so it doesn't spill. If the lid's not on tight and it spills you get this. She's also asking for a completely reasonable amount. And as a former server if I hadn't put the lid on correctly and this happened I would see it as my fault for not putting the lid on properly.

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mythago

February 6, 2010 9:45 PM

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How much \"bounty\" is a lawyer going to get from an $8,000 award? Do YOU work for a dollar an hour?

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barty

February 6, 2010 11:26 PM

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Doesn't matter. Personal injury lawyers are the absolute scum of the earth, perhaps only behind politicians and thieves. Come to think about it, they all have the same thing in common.

This is just another compelling reason for tort reform. It is time to put a stop to lawsuits that are spurred by the defendant having deep pockets and not wanting to have to shell out thousands to defend themselves against such BS.

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zomg!

February 7, 2010 10:14 AM

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What? Personal Injury Lawyers are not necessarily the scum of the earth. I work for an attorney who mainly does family law, but she will do personal injury if she feels the case is worthy and not a money-grabbing scheme.

And if you knew how much the average attorney makes after overhead you'd be shocked. I'm not talking the ambulance chasers or the politicians, but the real attorney who volunteers for court-appointed ad litem work and makes $220 every TWO months to represent a child or incapacitated adult who is in a bad situation. Does $110 a month on a case that takes usually 10 hours of work a month sound reasonable? Does $11/hr when you have around $100,000 in student loans sound greedy to you?

Not all attorneys are greedy scumbags. I can guarantee you that the attorney who is going for $7,500 in damages is not looking to get ahead, especially when they're fighting McDonalds (who I assure you has so many attorneys it's ridiculous). The attorney will be lucky to make $1,000 or $2,000 off of this deal, which will break down to a ridiculously low amount per hour.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:57 AM

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You're not going to get through to this guy. But you will probably see people like him come into your boss's office as clients. They'll be the ones who loudly proclaim how great their case is (not like all those OTHER cases) and wildly overvalue both their chances of winning and how much money they think they're entitled to.

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zomg!

February 7, 2010 6:13 PM

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Fortunately, my boss has pretty good radar for those people. :)

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February 7, 2010 7:45 AM

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No it is time to put a stop to people like you trying to make sure no corporation is ever held accountable for harming consumers and no consumer can ever have a day in court and a chance for justice.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:31 AM

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Yeah, those evil personal-injury lawyers, fronting money out of their own pockets to go up against McDonald's for the jackpot sum of a couple of hundred dollars. You work for an insurance company, right?

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Trai_Dep

February 7, 2010 3:20 AM

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...Until your daughter is paralyzed by an unrepentant quack or your sister is blinded when driving into a wall in an Ambien sleep-driving haze. Or will you simply shrug then happily pay out of pocket, cheerfully, to stick it to those darned personal injury lawyers?

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Persistence - Long viv revolisyon an konsomatè yo!

February 7, 2010 9:59 AM

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The reason MDs are so \"unrepentant\" in the first place is that the moment they say \"I'm sorry\" they've admitted blame and will be sued into nonexistence for doing so. Also, medicine is NOT an exact science. It's time for people to get THAT through their thick skulls. Not even taking into consideration that the pharmaceutical companies only have a rough estimate of the average effect a drug has on a handful of test subjects, people's bodies are all different and respond to treatments and surgeries differently. There is a world of difference between a misfortunate doctor and gross negligence/incompetence. Yes, companies take shortcuts which end up hurting people, and they should be held responsible, but WHO THE F**K said that there is always someone to blame and be held responsible for the suffering that happens in YOUR life?!?

This woman got coffee on her lap. Waah, f-ing waah. Excuse me for not having empathy when someone has a minor accident and tries to cash in on it.

I say YES to Tort reform. There should have to be shown a pattern of negligence in order to sue for something as stupid as this.

I say YES to Consumer Protections. That doesn't mean that every situation deserves someone should get rich quick. She should count her blessings that she lives in America where she won't go home and be assumed to have been sleeping with a demon because she has burns on her thigh and thus get stoned to death by her own family.

/rant

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February 7, 2010 2:13 PM

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If \"tort reform\" to you requires showing evidence of negligence, you better check in with all the other \"tort reform\" proponents - they pretty much solely want to limit punitive damages across the board.

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Trai_Dep

February 7, 2010 12:11 PM

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What kind of impoverished backwater do you live in that you think that a woman claiming $7,000 is \"a get-rich-quick scammer'?!

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mythago

February 7, 2010 10:57 AM

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The University of Michigan Hospital has slashed its malpractice costs by having doctors say \"I'm sorry\" and by offering to compensate patients for medical errors.

Thanks for playing.

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February 7, 2010 10:51 AM

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Tort reform is of course the right wings answer to saving costs in medicine. Several states have passed tort reform and guess what, malpractice insurance has NOT decreased. The fact is punitive damages on a doctor are sometimes necessary. Imagine a doctor comes into your open heart surgery and is drunk off his ass. He ends up killing you. Should your family have their right to be with you not have whatever monetary damage a jury or judge deem necessary. If the value is capped at say $1 million then you have basically said that is all you are worth. The doctor may be worth $100 million. He pays the million to your family and lives the rest of his life. Punitive damages are meant to make those in power REALLY do their jobs well. Those who make the most have the most to lose. The only people capping awards will help are insurance companies.

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Mr. S

February 6, 2010 8:53 PM

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If the article is correct and the top of the cup wasn't properly affixed, I can see this being McDonald's fault - I think that making sure everything's kosher before handing it out of the window is the least of their responsibilities.

As for the damages, they're reasonable and not astronomical. So this case seems legit.

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February 6, 2010 9:06 PM

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Even if I handed you a cup of coffee with NO lid on it, I would expect you to not be a moron and spill it all over yourself. I think McDonald's should start counter suing these idiots.

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February 7, 2010 7:48 AM

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I think a more appropriate name for you would be \"Anti-Consumer-Wolf\". You pretty consistently post that way.

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XTC46

February 7, 2010 12:30 AM

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Id argue that with no cover, more danger is assumed and one would be even more cautious. If i see a cover on something, I assume it will prevent liquid from pouring out on me within reason, I don't expect it to pop off and burn me.

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The hand that feeds, now with more bacon

February 6, 2010 9:15 PM

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The description seems to assert that the spillage occurred DURING the handoff and that the employee played some part in it.

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February 6, 2010 9:53 PM

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Psst...consumerwolf doesn't let the facts get in the way of his opinions. Just an FYI.

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mythago

February 6, 2010 9:58 PM

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We know, but we don't give a flap what he thinks; it's the folks at home who might be led astray by the fact-free ranting that we're concerned about.

It amuses me that people are freaking out that the woman is asking for the astronomical sum of about eight thousand dollars.

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CaptainSpankOMax

February 6, 2010 10:10 PM

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\"According to the suit,\" does not always equal \"facts\"

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:51 AM

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Sure it does. We're not arguing about whether the claims in the suit are true, but about whether IF they are true, the lawsuit is a valid one.

\"Waa waaa too many lawsuits all your fault\" does not constitute facts. Defensive attribution, yes. Bone-stupid ignorance of how lawsuits really work, definitely. But facts? Nope.

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pj1280

February 7, 2010 10:37 PM

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I really don't have anything to say here... I just wanted to post a reply to a reply to a reply to a reply (etc) to see my comments all scrunched up against the right margin.

","

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SaraFimm

February 6, 2010 8:46 PM

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I thought this problem was fixed with the last lawsuit. Supposedly, the fast food restaurant doesn't hand out super hot coffee anymore. At least, that's what I thought since I don't buy hot drinks from any fast food place. As regards to this instance, she's not asking for a super amount of funds like the last huge lawsuit. Now, if she turns it around and asks for millions, I think she's in the wrong.

5 replies

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February 6, 2010 9:27 PM

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Have you ever read about the injuries in the prior famous lawsuit? That woman's genitals were burned to the point of melting. Most people don't realize that.

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NumberFortyThree

February 7, 2010 3:16 PM

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Yes, in any case that other woman's injuries were much worse and their coffee is no longer that hot.

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h0mi

February 7, 2010 2:07 AM

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She wore sweatpants which helped retain the hot liquid next to her skin. Holding McDonalds liable for the burns would be like holding her clothing manufacturer liable because her sweat pants weren't like gore-tex.

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February 7, 2010 11:25 AM

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Do you SERIOUSLY think that sweatpants made that much of a difference? WOW, completely unbelievable!

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February 7, 2010 9:21 AM

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Not unless the sweatpants were improperly made, or represented that the would prevent genital melting but did not.

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Trai_Dep

February 7, 2010 3:30 AM

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So, grannies should only order lava-hot coffee from places naked?!

PS: if you know any women, ask them how much it'd take to make it worth their while to get their labia fused to their thigh, flash-cooked via hot liquid. Get back to us when you find someone willing to take the plunge for $8,000, OK?
PPS: Alternately, imagine it was your mom, your daughter. Would you point your finger and snicker, blaming her?

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)

February 7, 2010 8:43 AM

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I have a feeling this particular poster doesn't really care.

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shepd

February 6, 2010 11:51 PM

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Yes, and you should see the horrible things cars do to people.

Your point is... what, again? We shouldn't drink anything hot? Or are you suggesting McDonald's burned her? I suppose, in that case, Honda maims people when someone uses one of their cars as a battering ram.

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Mary

February 7, 2010 5:28 AM

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Or it could be that McDonald's had been told before that their coffee was too hot and could scald their customers and they hadn't done anything to correct the issue, which is the basic definition of negligence.

There's a LOT more to that particular case than anybody ever bothers to research or understand.

http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html

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February 6, 2010 9:45 PM

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Thank you. People always overlook that little tidbit.

Third-degree burns on her genitals, people. You'd be suing too.

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debones

February 6, 2010 10:28 PM

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The last lawsuit the lady also gave McDonald's a chance to pay just her hospital bills and they turned her down which is why she turned to the lawsuit.

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:04 PM

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Well most people have the common sense not to put a paper cup of hot coffee between their thighs.

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February 6, 2010 10:19 PM

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My computer is sitting on my lap right now. Do i not deserve damages if it explodes and catches fire - as some laptops have done - burning my genitals? If the product fails standards and use is within reason - i.e. not deliberately injuring oneself - then damages should and do apply. The coffee was significantly hotter than it was supposed to be, and the injuries were so far out of run of the mill, ordinary.

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February 6, 2010 11:04 PM

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If you put your laptop between your legs and squeeze it until the container bursts, I don't think you should to sue for damages.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:34 AM

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Most people understand that if you sell coffee so hot that a splash causes third-degree burns, maybe you should think twice about selling it from the DRIVE THROUGH WINDOW. You know, where two seconds after you hand it to the customer, the beverage will be in a moving vehicle?

Go look up the difference between 'comparative negligence' and 'contributory negligence' and get back to us.

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February 6, 2010 11:23 PM

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That's neither logical nor the way our legal system works, sorry babe. Laptops aren't supposed to explode. Your logic is as if because I know there is a chance of medical malpractice and go to the doctor anyway, I can't recover. Little kids aren't supposed to swallow toys, and we know that if they swallow things they'll choke. That knowledge doesn't make the production of choking-hazard toys permissible, from a negligence standpoint. Oh well. It probably sounded good to you when you thought about it for half a second.

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February 6, 2010 11:34 PM

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No - my logic is that if you use a product outside of its intended use and in a manner that is inconsistent with any reasonable logic, you shouldn't get to sue when things go wrong. Like juggling chainsaws or eating glass. Or putting super-hot liquids between your knees and squeezing (unless it's some kind of sex-lube... then I suppose it'd be okay to sue when things go wrong...)

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mythago

February 7, 2010 5:38 AM

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And happily, that is precisely what the law says. If the woman had grabbed a pot of coffee out of the brewing machine and tried to douche with it, we wouldn't be having this discussion because there would be no lawsuit. Accepting a cup of coffee from an employee selling it != juggling chainsaws.

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:32 PM

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I'm sorry but you can get burns from espresso, or even the coffee you make at home. I don't get to sue coffee maker companies just because coffee is made with very hot water.

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February 6, 2010 10:54 PM

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These things you think are the same, aren't.

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 11:21 PM

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How?

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February 6, 2010 11:26 PM

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The women in these lawsuits didn't make their coffee at home. A restaurant made it and served it negligently. Also, that a consumer can know that a product, if broken, could cause harm, does not relieve the producer (or, in this case, the seller) from negligence.

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 11:41 AM

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The problem with that is the coffee was not made wrong or anything. We can't know for sure if it was the top put on incorrectly, the cup being deformed or if she squeezed the top of the cup and it popped up. Fresh coffee is very hot. If it spills on the skin right after brewing, it can burn. Regardless of being at home or anywhere else, fresh coffee is still very hot. At best this was an accident and given her real medical expenses were only about $300, it wasn't even a bad accident. This woman is suing because apparently she was too stupid to know hot coffee is hot and to be careful handling it.

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February 7, 2010 12:07 PM

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We do know it was 'made wrong'. Those facts were shown in Liebeck.

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 9:50 PM

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No, they said it was very hot and in the end they settled that it may not have been too hot but in any case needed better warning labels. Also they did find that Liebeck was 20% responsible for her burns. However good brewing temps are very hot for both tea and coffee so any reasonable person should be careful with them unless they have made them themselves.

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February 8, 2010 10:10 AM

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Yes - made wrong by being too hot, hotter than was safe and hotter than company policies allowed.

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LadyTL

February 8, 2010 8:18 PM

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Maybe in the older case but certainly not in the one brought up in this article.

","

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zomg!

February 6, 2010 8:52 PM

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how about option #3 -- if the burns indicate the coffee was hotter than normal (i.e. boiling or close to boiling) she should be awarded money. Otherwise, no.

6 replies

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mythago

February 7, 2010 12:21 PM

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Which....is pretty much how the law works.

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Difdi

February 6, 2010 9:12 PM

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That's just it. Close to boiling is precisely how hot hot coffee should be.

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tsume

February 6, 2010 9:12 PM

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http://www.coffeeresearch.org/coffee/brewing.htm

\"Coffee should be brewed for 4.5-5 minutes using a ratio of 55 grams of ground coffee per liter of filtered water (195-205°F)\"

If you are too stupid to know that coffee is brewed at a high temperature, you deserve the burns. That's how I see it.

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mythago

February 6, 2010 10:02 PM

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Hey, if you are too stupid to realize that if you spill coffee on your customers it will hurt them badly, then you deserve whatever lawsuits you get.

Oh wait, I forgot; personal responsibility doesn't apply to anyone but consumers!

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tsume

February 6, 2010 10:13 PM

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I'm just saying she should have exercised better caution when handling the beverage. Thanks for playing.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:40 AM

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And the people selling the coffee should have done....nothing. They're not the consumer, so screw them!

I think you meant to post your comments on the Corporatist blog.

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February 7, 2010 8:44 AM

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Should they have blown on it for her until it was cool enough to drink? Seriously, how do you think Starbucks stays in business, despite their entire business model being the sale of piping hot coffee? If you can't see that it is a case of personal responsibility to not be burned by the hot coffee you've just ordered (with a big warning label right there on the cup) then I've lost a little bit more faith in humanity.

I know what you might be thinking \"but the lid wasn't secure!\". This would be valid if it was intelligent in any way to pick up a cup of piping hot coffee by the lid. If you pick it up by the body, you won't spill any on you even if the lid does pop off. The first thing I do when ordering coffee is make sure that the lid is secure, even before I drive away (or walk away, if I'm ordering inside an establishment). It's common sense.

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February 7, 2010 9:35 AM

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Let's see- they could have checked to make sure the lid was secure (it's a drive-thru, not a counter), thrown a couple of ice cubes in it... Because if the lid pops off the cup has also changed shape by your grip. This will cause the coffee to shift- most likely out of the cup. This is why I order cold drinks no matter what the season. I've had it happen too many times to me- first time was with soda, so I decided to remove further risk by never ordering anything hot. Room-temp or slightly warm at the most.
(and my local Starbucks seems to make most of its money off of cold drinks and food... even in winter)

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Persistence - Long viv revolisyon an konsomatè yo!

February 7, 2010 10:12 AM

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You're Starbucks \"seems\" to make most their money off of cold drinks and food? Really? Did you do a survey? You're opinion and casual observation in no way, shape, or form makes that statement true. And if McDonalds throws ice in MY coffee, I'm going to be pissed. I paid for HOT COFFEE. I know it's hot. I've spilled it on myself, I've burned my mouth a few times but not ONCE has it occurred to me that I should sue McDonalds because my HOT coffee turned out to be... wait for it... HOT! As with the poster you were responding to, I check to make sure my lid is on tight before I pull away from the drive thru. When will you and others realize that gratuitous lawsuits are BAD FOR CONSUMERS. They raise prices for everyone else and occasionally put many people out of work when the award is big enough. This woman deserves a condescending pat on the head, a bag of ice for her thigh, some A & D ointment, and the assurance that everything will be okay and it will heal. She does not deserve over half my current yearly salary (yeah, right, I know it's sad) as recompense for an ACCIDENT!

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February 7, 2010 10:38 PM

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\"Opinion and casual observation\"? Try \"conversation with employees\". And people like you make it difficult for people like me to get drinks right. Because I get pissed OFF if I get a drink that burns my mouth if I try to drink it straight away (you repeatedly injure yourself trying to drink coffee and you still think it's normal? Masochist.). At least the people at my local Starbucks know that I never want any of my drinks hot. And \"hot\" = 100F+. A couple of ice cubes isn't going to bring \"boiling\" below that mark. If it has to be 190F+ for you to consider it hot perhaps you should have your nervous system checked out.

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February 7, 2010 12:04 PM

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Accidents happen. If you sell coffee hot enough to burn then sooner or later somebody will get burned. This is common sense. By selling coffee hot enough to burn people you are guaranteeing that somebody will be burned by your coffee. Somebody will trip. Or a kid will gab it and drink it. Or there will be one of a million other causes.The only way to avoid this is to sell coffee cool enough that it does not burn people when it is spilled on them.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:21 AM

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When I get my coffee from Peets, I expect it to be HOT, too. I don't expect it to be 190+ degrees, and you know what? IT ISN'T.

The world doesn't, thankfully, turn on who you personally approve of.

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Persistence - Long viv revolisyon an konsomatè yo!

February 7, 2010 10:37 AM

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*Your*

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February 6, 2010 9:31 PM

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Does that work for other things? If you are too stupid know that cars traveling at 60 mph could decapitate you, you deserve the injury? So no car accident lawsuits? Regardless of fault. Thank god people gave the system more thought than you did.

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tsume

February 6, 2010 10:15 PM

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If you walk out in front of a car travelling at 60mph you do deserve injury.

If you fumble your coffee cup when it is 120+ degrees you do deserve injury.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe McDonalds and other companies should just close their drive through and give you sips of coffee in a highly regulated environment spoonful by spoonful but only after first checking the temperature via 3 different methods. I'd like to hope that's not the case.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:39 AM

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\"120+ degrees\" coffee won't even scald you, much less burn you.

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February 6, 2010 11:27 PM

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Not only are you wrong, but none of your examples are logically consistent with what happened here, particuarly in the original Liebeck case.

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zomg!

February 6, 2010 9:31 PM

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Well, when I did mystery shopping the guidelines for serving coffee were 135-145 F. Boiling is 212 F.

So while I'm sure that coffee should be BOILING while it's being made, it should not still be close to the boiling point when it is being served.

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ajlei

February 7, 2010 12:24 AM

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If you did mystery shopping for a coffee shot, it is typical for a latte/mocha/etc to be served at 145-155F. However, straight coffee is typically kept around 200F.

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ajlei

February 7, 2010 12:26 AM

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shop*, ugh.

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Pixel

February 6, 2010 10:09 PM

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Then whoever wrote those guidelines knows nothing about coffee. Serving temps should be 155-175 deg, anything below 150deg is too cold.

Also, skin scalds at 120deg. so *any* temp in the proper range or in your range would still cause instant scalding burns.

Hot coffee is hot by its very nature.

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zomg!

February 7, 2010 9:43 AM

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Skin scalds at 120 but it doesn't cause permanent burning and scarring at that temperature.

","","

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February 6, 2010 8:53 PM

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If you're not responsible enough to hold a cup of coffee, then don't order one.

3 replies

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February 7, 2010 7:49 AM

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If you're not responsible enough to read the facts in an article don't post opinions about it :)

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:56 AM

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If you're not responsible enough to make a cup of coffee that won't burn your customers, don't sell one.

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February 7, 2010 10:23 PM

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Coffee that's not hot enough to burn is too cold

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February 8, 2010 9:50 AM

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Only if your goal is throat cancer. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/03/27/hot-tea-cancer.html

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February 8, 2010 9:34 AM

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So \"cold-brewed\" coffee isn't real coffee?

","

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February 6, 2010 8:55 PM

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It happened as the employee was passing it to her...and the lid popped off. It will be hard for McDonalds to avoid some liability.

9 replies

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February 7, 2010 8:22 PM

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Not if the judge is as anti-consumer as most of the people who post on The Consumerist.

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Razor512

February 7, 2010 6:52 PM

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some people tend to grab the cups with too much force when in a hurry and thus the lid pops off then they go all emo over the coffee spilling.

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P_Smith

February 7, 2010 2:07 AM

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Even if the lid wasn't put on properly, it begs the question: Who would be dumb enough to pick up or take something in a sitting position that could potentially hurt or kill?

Suppose it were a sharp knife instead of a hot coffee. (A knife is a good analogy, since it's more dangerous than a coffee.) Would you grab or pick up one and pull it toward you while you're sitting down with your chest or lap expose and you're unable to move if the knife fell, point downward? I wouldn't.

She should have demanded it be put in a bag or gotten out of the car; if it was in a bag and spilt, that would have more merit for a suit about carelessness. McRotten's might have some culpability if the employee was careless, but common sense should apply as well. People should be aware and careful when they're doing potentially dangerous things.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:55 AM

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Is that a real question? If so, ask yourself this: who would be dumb enough to hand a customer sitting in a car something that could hurt or kill them?

The customer knows the coffee is 'hot', but not how hot. (If you pour from my Mr. Coffee right when it's done brewing, your coffee will be hot, but from personal experience I promise you it won't give you second-degree burns.) The company selling the coffee knows exactly how hot it is.

I'm also intrigued by the notion that putting the cup in a paper bag makes it SAFER. Because....the paper magically absorbs heat? Because a cup in a bag is *less* likely to spill, particularly if the customer then has to take the cup out of the bag to put it securely in a cupholder? What?

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knacko

February 7, 2010 2:59 AM

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Someone is a wheelchair...

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February 6, 2010 11:12 PM

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Doesn't add up. Here's why:

Picture being in your car at the drive-thru window. There's a big gap that you have to reach out to, to get your food, right? The distance between the drive-thru window and where your car window begins.
When he hands you your coffee, you have to hold the thing and pull it into your car. If the lid would have popped off instantly and spilled everywhere like she claimed, it would have happened even before she managed to the cup into the car. She did something to change the situation.

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February 7, 2010 8:55 AM

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As a former morning shift McD's drive-thru worker, I can tell you that the plastic lids don't really fit on the drinks all that well and having them pop off during the handoff really isn't that uncommon. All it takes is a small squeeze on the part of either party.

McDonald's was warned not to serve their coffee insanely hot already. If they served coffee at an inappropriate temperature and the top popped off due to the employee not affixing it properly or it not fitting properly, then they owe this woman the cost of her medical bills resulting from the error.

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February 6, 2010 9:22 PM

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\"... took the cup\" I really don't understand how you grab a cup and then have it spill on you, even if you squeeze the cup hard enough for the lid to come off.

It's all pretty ridiculous, unless there's security footage of her grabbing the cup.

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)

February 7, 2010 8:53 AM

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I've had it happen... the plastic top of the coffee cup has a small defect, so when you try to put it on it will not line up all the way. The McD's worker could of *thought* they put the cap on correctly. They pick up the styrofoam cup, hand it thru the window, and when the lady ordering put extra pressure on the cup when she grabbed it, the top pops off.

*I've worked in a very busy coffee shop, this is not only a theory, but a situation that occassionally came up.*

","

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varro

February 6, 2010 8:56 PM

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This is different from the Stella Liebeck case (where the plaintiff was very seriously injured) - she only claims $319 of medical expenses and lost wages.

Give her $1000 to go away - it's an injury, but not much of one.

3 replies

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February 8, 2010 2:29 PM

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If that is the case, I am going to McDonalds and dumping some coffee in my lap. That is worth a grand.

This is stupid. If I order coffee, I expect hot coffee. I also check the lid after it is handed to me. If I dump the coffee on myself, I am an idiot and go home to change my pants.

What is next? If I go to a Pho restaurant, order the soup and knock it into my lap, can I sue the restaurant for their hot soup being hot?

I guess my brain doesn't even work like that...with the \"blame someone else for you being dumb\" response.

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H3ion

February 7, 2010 3:00 PM

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Going back to law school 101, there is a primary issue of liability and only then do you even worry about damages. Actual damages suffered when the defendant is clearly liable doesn't bother me. In this case, that's probably $319 to a doctor (I'm assuming the plaintiff has no insurance so that she isn't double dipping) plus the cost of a prescription. Punitive damages in a case like this are not warranted, period. She claims to have suffered a burn because the top of the coffee cup wasn't on properly. If her husband/whatever had served her a cup of coffee at home, and it had spilled and burned her, would she be claiming under her homeowner's insurance? Life has pitfalls and they're not always someone else's fault. And if we went to a loser-pays tort system, you'd see a lot of these cases cleared right off the docket.

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tmed

February 9, 2010 2:24 PM

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Insurance isn't double dipping. If she gets paid by McDonald's, the insurance company will come for anything it paid. In fact, if she just goes for her co-pay, the insurance company can still come for it.

There is likely no cause for Punitive damages here. In the Liebeck case, the jury awarded huge punitive damages in large because of simply awful representation by McDonald's who acted largely as if they did not take the case seriously.

That lawsuit did more to wake companies up to fighting these lawsuits than it did for plantiffs. Even Liebeck settled after that award because it was inappropriate.

","

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Ouze

February 6, 2010 8:57 PM

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I wonder how many people will post about how \"our litigious society is out of hand\" using the Liebeck case as an example, without actually clicking the second link and readin about out.

2 replies

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:11 PM

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I see the older case as a perfect example of how sue happy people have gotten because she won even though she was stupid enough to put a hot liquid where it could spill however accidentally on her crotch.

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February 6, 2010 10:20 PM

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Yes, people should never let improperly served products anywhere near them. Absolutely. /end sarcasm

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h0mi

February 7, 2010 2:16 AM

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She placed the coffee cup between her knees and pulled the far side of the lid toward her to remove it. In the process, she spilled the entire cup of coffee on her lap.[9] Liebeck was wearing cotton sweatpants; they absorbed the coffee and held it against her skin as she sat in the puddle of hot liquid for over 90 seconds, scalding her thighs, buttocks, and groin.[10]

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:35 AM

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So it was all Liebeck's fault because...she was wearing cotton sweatpants?

If you indeed read the link, rather than cherry-picking, the jury reduced her damages by the amount they believed was her fault.

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:38 PM

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The original suit was about a cup that had already been served. She choose to put a paper cup of a liquid known to be hot when served in a sensitive area. I do understand accidents can happen at a drive-thru window but all the same. If I spill hot coffee on me and get burned at home , I don't go out and sue the coffee maker companies because the coffee was brewed at high temps.

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February 7, 2010 9:27 AM

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i hope you never get in a car accident and try to sue - you CHOSE to get in that car, after all, knowing cars are highly dangerous and accidents/injury/death are common.

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 11:53 AM

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Why would I need to sue someone for a car accident unless their insurance didn't pay? Isn't that why we are all told to have car insurance by the state to drive a car?

","

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sayahh

February 6, 2010 8:57 PM

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What year does she think this is, 1992? :)

(At least there's another Democrat in the office--that much is still the same.)

3 replies

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sayahh

February 7, 2010 12:39 PM

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I stand corrected and humbled...that's why I get for writing faster than I can think! :p

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February 7, 2010 9:09 AM

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In 1992, a Republican was in the White House (Clinton didn't take office until Jan. 20, 1993).

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maximus

February 7, 2010 1:57 AM

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Stupidity isn't just for Republicans.

","

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jennesy

February 6, 2010 8:59 PM

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Didn't this happen like 20 years ago and as a result all coffee cups now warn us that hot drinks are hot?

2 replies

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February 6, 2010 9:01 PM

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It happened 20 years ago when a woman decided to place a cup of coffee between her legs and then squeeze her legs together. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but they payout she got inspires cases like this.

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mythago

February 6, 2010 9:47 PM

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That's not what happened, but thanks for demonstrating exactly who isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:13 PM

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That's exactly what happened! You cannot hold something between your knees without squeezing it somehow.

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February 7, 2010 11:30 AM

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A normal person can hold a drink between their legs while sitting without crushing it. I've done so myself more than once.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:38 AM

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No, that's not at all what happened. Maybe you can't hold a cup between your knees without making the lid pop off, but that's your problem. The issue with the coffee is that when Liebeck took the lid off to put cream and sugar in, the lid popped off and it spilled. The coffee wasn't just hot, but undrinkably, scaldingly hot. You know, maybe a little too hot to be served in a drive through where your customer is going to have the coffee in a moving vehicle two seconds after they pay for it?

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vesper

February 7, 2010 11:50 AM

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What the media doesn't say about that case is that that particular McDs management had been warned numerous times by corporate to turn down the temp on their coffee machines. Apparently other customer's had been burned also so this woman's lawsuit was not unreasonable. The scolding coffee burned her labia and inside areas of her legs which required skin grafts.

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 11:50 AM

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Why didn't she put it in a cup holder to add creamer and sugar though? Coffee is assumed to be hot, so why put it anywhere close to your groin? Plus if it had been lukewarm coffee which is closer to skin temp, they would have brought it back in complaining the coffee was too cold.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:59 AM

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How about you actually go read the facts of the case - there's a link handy at the top of the page - instead of asking us to explain it to you?

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 9:54 PM

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I did read the article thank you very much. I am just pointing out that she could have done alot of things differently that would have made more sense and would have not resulted in burns. A sensible person would have the sense to not put a fragile cup of a hot liquid in a place close to a sensitive area much less an unstable place close to a sensitive area.

","

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CaptZ

February 6, 2010 9:01 PM

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These stupid bitches are going to cause the rest of us to lose the convenience of getting hot drinks without leaving the comfort of our vehicles. I am so sick of losing things because of dumb ass people not being responsible. Even if the lid was not secure she should not have spilled it on herself if she had properly held the cup when handed to her. Damn idiots.

6 replies

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dannod

February 7, 2010 8:14 PM

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Unlike some of the other people, I think your comment sums it up. We lose lots of things and gain lots of inconvenience due to idiots -- not just coffee. Think airport convenience. Think receipt checks at stores. Think identity theft. Think IRS audits. Whether the server or the woman were the idiot is still up for discussion. But either way, I think there's a tendency to surrender responsibility and accept risk, blaming everything on the other person -- particularly when they have a deep pocket.

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Pixel

February 6, 2010 10:12 PM

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Insulting and offensive sexist language. How ...nice.

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pecan 3.14159265

February 6, 2010 10:43 PM

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Yeah, it's much too late in the night for me to have anything profound to say about this idiot except, \"what an ass\" - and behold, I am correct.

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February 6, 2010 9:34 PM

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Wow, we should have more people like you running things. High class AND smart!

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andrewe

February 6, 2010 9:11 PM

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Yes because whenever I receive a cup of coffee at the drive-thru I take the time to get out of my car so I can see the cup properly, inspect the cup for a proper fitting lid and ensure the temperature is safe. Or, perhaps the McDonalds employee could do just that before blindly handing that cup of scalding caffeine goodness down into my car..

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:40 PM

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Short of taping it or gluing it, there is no way to actually secure a disposable cup lid so that there is no way it could come off.

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February 7, 2010 11:51 PM

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There may be a whole other way to serve it. It may turn out that the only viable way to serve it is in a tray, like the ones they give you when you're buying several drinks at a time. They may have to come up with a similar design for a single cup. Something that doesn't depend on either the server or the receiver having their hand around the cup itself with the potential risk of squeezing it and causing the lid to come off. Maybe devise something with a handle (or handles on both sides, one for the person handing it over, one for the person receiving it) that can be folded in for drinking. Or maybe a \"handle\" like on a bucket. I dunno, I'm guessing teams of designers could probably come up with something, though.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:41 AM

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Huh. So maybe the people selling you the coffee should consider that, like, there's a possibility that the lid will come off even if you're totally careful, so perhaps it shouldn't be so hot that it causes serious burns if and when it spills? I know. Crazy talk! I too can't stand coffee unless it's hot enough to cause tissue damage.

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February 7, 2010 7:55 AM

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Amen. I think the best situation here is a class action suit against McDonalds for negligence and not making cups with handles so this crap is prevented, and YES they DO have the responsibility for preventing it. They are not even trying.

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February 7, 2010 11:15 AM

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Then why just McDonald's? Why not Burger King, Jack In The Box, Starbucks, or just about any convenience store? I've purchased some pretty damn hot coffee at all of those places, and so have many others. Why is it only McDonald's that's getting shafted here?

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February 8, 2010 12:36 AM

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Then have you wondered why this has never happened to any of those other places? Only McDonalds. And more than once. Doesn't this seem odd?

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February 7, 2010 5:13 PM

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Because smarter consumers get their drive-through coffee elsewhere.

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February 7, 2010 2:21 PM

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So far those other drive-ins haven't caused such as accident, so that's why they haven't been sued yet. Gas stations don't usually have drive-ins, so I'm not sure how they could cause a similar accident at all.

","","","

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February 6, 2010 9:07 PM

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What do you mean there's no ice? You mean I gotta drink this coffee hot?

6 replies

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February 7, 2010 10:07 AM

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Cancer merchant! Cancer merchant! Cancer merchant! Cancer merchant!

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February 7, 2010 9:32 AM

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+1 for the Clerks reference

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February 6, 2010 9:51 PM

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Do you sell hubcaps??

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February 7, 2010 1:36 PM

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Ohhhh, Mini-trucker magazine.

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February 6, 2010 9:24 PM

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Maybe she needs a Roof Coffee Cup. Never let an opportunity go by...

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zomg!

February 6, 2010 9:13 PM

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So, how much is this thing, anyway?

","

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yensed

February 6, 2010 9:09 PM

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If the employee handed her a hot cup of coffee by the lid and it came off when switching hands, I think its not an unreasonable amount of money to ask for if the coffee was really hot enough it left scarring. At some point places are going to have to stop serving coffee so hot.

5 replies

$\"user-pic\"$

February 6, 2010 11:08 PM

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I agree. I've had soft drink lids come off during the drive thru 'exchange' and spill drink on me.

The employee seems to have some measure of fault in this.

She's only asking for like 8 grand, hardly an exorbitant amount.

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njack

February 6, 2010 10:11 PM

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Dmn bldng hrt lbrl. t's fckng cff. t's sppsd t b ht.

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Difdi

February 6, 2010 9:21 PM

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Unless you're ordering iced coffee, it is supposed to be between 195 and 205 degrees Fahrenheit. Those temperatures are well above the scalding point. Serving coffee colder than that means one of two things; Either it was not properly brewed (degrading flavor) or it was brewed and allowed to cool (may be lukewarm or stale).

Would you complain if your coffee tasted bad, or if you ordered hot coffee and it arrived lukewarm or even cold?

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February 7, 2010 9:57 AM

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\"Serving coffee colder than that means one of two things; Either it was not properly brewed (degrading flavor) or it was brewed and allowed to cool (may be lukewarm or stale).\"
And what of cold-brewing? But really, I'm surprised that the recommended temperature for coffee is above the point at which the body can safely take it. Who decided that was a bright idea?

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mythago

February 6, 2010 10:01 PM

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Wrong. Sorry. Try 155-175 F. There is no reason to serve coffee at 195 degrees. The only reason coffee would be this hot is if the restaurant was trying to get more and stronger coffee out of low-grade grounds.

http://www.bunnomatic.com/pages/coffeebasics/cb6holding.html

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:15 PM

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Unless is was freshly made then it still will take some time to cool down to appropriate temps.

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Pixel

February 6, 2010 10:14 PM

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Scalding occurs at 120deg. So even the proper holding temps are going to cause scalding.

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zomg!

February 7, 2010 9:47 AM

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There is a huge difference between scalding and a burn. If the Plaintiff were only scalded, I'd say she doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. Heck, I 'scald' myself every time I take a shower.

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 11:55 AM

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I doubt she was really burned that badly though since her medical expenses were only about $300.

","","","","

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February 6, 2010 9:13 PM

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Personal responsibility is apparently for sale for $7500.

2 replies

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mythago

February 7, 2010 5:24 AM

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That's apparently what it was worth to McDonald's. Personal responsibility does apply to corporations too, right?

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February 7, 2010 7:57 AM

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No, because a corporation is not a person. In fact, as the Corporation movie points out, they are a psychopath. Therefore they should be locked up in restraints and restricted to where they can't hurt others. Unfortunately we are to the point where the psychopath inmates (corps) are running the asylum (Congress & the country).

","","","

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nakkypoo

February 6, 2010 9:17 PM

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I expect coffee to be hot, I don't expect the lid to be so loose as to fall off and spill on me in the short journey from the hand of the employee to the cup holder of my car.

If she were asking for $75,000 instead of $7.500 I'd be more inclined to believe she's trying to take advantage of the situation.

3 replies

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February 7, 2010 8:31 PM

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Do you expect your coffee to be nigh-boiling?

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February 6, 2010 9:48 PM

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Seriously, those damages sound like they are pretty much just to cover her injuries and lost wages. If she was really looking for a payday, it would be much higher.

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February 8, 2010 10:44 PM

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\"She seeks $7,182 for her pain and suffering, plus another $318 for lost wages and medical expenses.\"
So, no, that's not what all $7500 are for.

","

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andrewe

February 6, 2010 9:18 PM

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Just yesterday I walked into a McDs and bought a coffee with cream. The cup felt fairly cool but the coffee was scorching hot. I actually pondered that old lawsuit as I licked my burned lips.

How the heck do they get the coffee that hot? My home coffee maker neither makes nor keeps it that hot. I've never received a coffee anywhere that was even close to that hot, even served black. It seems to me this is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

And for you blame the victim types. Several times I've had a drive-thru soft drink dumped in my lap, usually because the worker is not paying attention, often yakking with a coworker. Try this. Put your hand out to receive your drink but don't touch it. See how many times out of ten that worker drops it on the ground. We can keep score and give prizes to the winner.

2 replies

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:18 PM

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Well yeah it's going to going to get dropped because from the view of the window it will look like it id in your hand.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 5:28 AM

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What are you talking about? Are these weird vision-distorting windows that make it impossible to see whether the customer has taken the cup from you?

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 11:58 AM

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No it's called perspective, where from the window if your hand is around the cup without actually holding it, it will seem like you have the cup in your hand.

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February 7, 2010 10:43 PM

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Not at that angle. You can still see space between the hand and the cup.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 12:07 PM

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Okay, at this point I have to assume you're trolling. Thanks though.

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 9:59 PM

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How am I trolling? I'm just pointing out that you can appear from certain angles to be holding the cup when you are not, as you suggested people doing. Just because you feel you are right does not make my points trolling.

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February 8, 2010 10:02 AM

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How hard would it be to say \"Do you have it?\" and wait for a response before letting go? They teach boy scouts to do that with knives and such, why not dangerous liquids as well?

","

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Eldritch

February 6, 2010 9:20 PM

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I think it's reasonable if it's the fault of the chain. It's my responsibility to realize that coffee is HOT and to be careful, but it is the responsibility of the person handing it to me to affix the lid on tightly and securely. Lids that are put on properly, especially for coffee cups, should not just randomly pop off.

For the record, the other woman who won money from McDonalds for hot coffee had a legitimate lawsuit. The coffee was OVERheated and the burns she received were so bad that she needed re-constructive surgery on her ladybits.

","

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February 6, 2010 9:20 PM

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And here I get people complaining our coffee isn't hot enough at Starbucks. I always grab and hold the cup by the lid after putting the lid on to ensure it's on properly. I've burned myself a few times this way, but I'd rather I'd screwed up and burned my hand instead of a customer pouring it all over their self.

1 replies

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pecan 3.14159265

February 6, 2010 10:46 PM

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The drip is really only one temperature, since it's already been brewed, but when I go to Starbucks, I prefer the espresso be super hot because it takes longer to cool down. I can spend hours drinking one cup of coffee.

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February 6, 2010 9:37 PM

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The US-American sue-happiness makes the US the joke of the rest of the world, because it lets stupidity triumph.

4 replies

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February 7, 2010 8:00 AM

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And you watch Fox News too much. Back up what you say with a source we can look up. Thanks.

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mythago

February 6, 2010 10:04 PM

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The rest of the world has socialized medical care and generous work-leave policies, so people don't have to sue in order to get their medical bills and time off covered.

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Noir

February 7, 2010 3:15 PM

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Do you see people suing for these kind of stuff on countries with a shitty healthcare system?

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mythago

February 7, 2010 8:18 PM

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Countries with shitty healthcare systems also tend to have shitty legal systems. Go file a personal-injury suit in Nigeria and tell me how that works out for you.

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February 6, 2010 10:23 PM

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Someone just dropped a truth bomb of awesomeness.

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pantheonoutcast

February 7, 2010 7:19 AM

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And hyperbole...

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:14 AM

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It's actually math, not hyperbole.

","

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njack

February 6, 2010 9:40 PM

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If she gets a dime, I'm heading to McDonalds for coffee to make a quick buck. Seriously, this is getting fucking ridiculous.

4 replies

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mythago

February 6, 2010 9:52 PM

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Please do. Then you'll find out the hard way that if you don't have a lot of damages no lawyer will take your case (they can't afford to front the costs for you in return for making zero to jack-all in fees), and if you file the lawsuit on your own, you can expect to have McDonald's lawyers crawling all over your life with a microscope.

As a lawyer, I find that there are two universal truths about people who bawl about frivolous lawsuits: they don't know anything at all about lawsuits, and they will be the first ones to turn to me at a dinner party to ask for free legal advice.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 12:17 PM

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I'm really not trying to be funny. I really do run into these people all the time. I once had a potential juror say that he couldn't possibly decide a wrongful-death case fairly, because people just sue for money all the time, although HE was in a lawsuit because his SO got hit by a car, but THAT was DIFFERENT because it was a MERITORIOUS lawsuit.

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February 7, 2010 8:01 AM

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LOL! I just LOVE you! :)

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Trai_Dep

February 7, 2010 3:42 AM

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The other universal truth is the guys that hate lawyers and their lawyering ways the most are the ones quickest to say, \"Except my lawyer, of course\".
Triple that for when someone in their family is the one seeking redress via a personal injury suit.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:43 AM

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That's totally not fair. Sometimes these guys are wealthy and have insurance companies that do all the bickering for them, so they don't ever have to file a lawsuit to have their little needs taken care of.

","

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droidd

February 6, 2010 9:41 PM

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Perhaps McDonalds and other places with drive thru service should refuse to hot beverages thru the drive-thru.

I did get an ice cream headache eating a mcdonalds sundae. It lasted quite a long time. I thought about suing because NOWHERE I see any warning about this being even a possibility of happening.

1 replies

$\"user-pic\"$

February 7, 2010 9:45 AM

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I think you a verb there. But in all honesty, maybe things like this shouldn't be served from drive-thrus without some additional protection. Put it in a bag, perhaps? One that won't melt from such a high temperature?

","

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mythago

February 6, 2010 9:44 PM

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She wants EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS! Insert rant about 'jackpot justice' and 'bankrupting America's businesses' here!

2 replies

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zomg!

February 7, 2010 9:52 AM

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Isn't McDonald's a multi-national corporation now? If she were suing a mom and pop I'd be disgusted, but we're talking about McDonalds. They don't even value human life.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 10:59 AM

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Why would you be disgusted if she we were suing a 'mom and pop'? Either the restaurant is to blame or it's not.

","

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February 6, 2010 9:44 PM

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It warns about the hot coffee on the lid. Really, if you can still sue even with the warnings, what's the point of having the warnings?

2 replies

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mythago

February 7, 2010 5:03 AM

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Do you want a real answer?

The warnings themselves are rather stupid. They're a dumbass lawyer attempt to CYA in regard to a part of product-liability law in many states, which says that a product is defective if it 'does not perform as safely as an ordinary consumer would reasonably expect'. This means that if you cut yourself with a steak knife, tough, because an ordinary person would expect a steak knife to be sharp. If your steak knife explodes on contact, though, that is not something an ordinary person would expect - thus defective.

The way to CYA on this is to WARN of the unexpected defect. This is why you will never see a warning sticker on a steak knife that says \"Caution, knife blade may be sharp.\"

So the geniuses who put \"caution, may be hot\" think that they're safe because they're warning people. They apparently don't understand that the issue in the Liebeck case was not that the coffee was hot (duh), but that it was SO HOT that it was tissue-damaging undrinkable, and it was made that hot not because there is no other way to make coffee, but because it was more economical to make coffee at that temperature.

(I am told by people who followed the trial that there was also evidence presented that one of the reasons for the temperature is that McD coffee is so bad, they wanted people to be far away from the restaurant before they drank the stuff, to avoid any complaints or returns, and that there were actually charts McDonald's had prepared showing how far away customers would be before the coffee was drinkable. I have not, unfortunately, found independent confirmation of this.)

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zomg!

February 7, 2010 9:54 AM

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I heard that they made it super hot to cut down on the number of \"free refills\", but I also haven't seen any proof. It's just an urban legend now.

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$\"user-pic\"$

February 6, 2010 9:47 PM

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@Ouzu

So I did click the link from \"The Oregon\" and read the piece form the newspaper, I am not sure what I was to have learned, other than perhaps the temperature of the coffee, by the plaintiff.

\"extremely hot in the extreme.\"

","","

$\"user-pic\"$

February 6, 2010 9:49 PM

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there is too much emphasis on hot coffee in this news ... actually makes the reader forget the plastic top was loose, so give her money ... i want some too

","","

$\"user-pic\"$

February 6, 2010 9:52 PM

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I am amused that people think that since coffee is supposed to be hot, it's no big deal if it burns you.

Forks and knives are supposed to be sharp. If your waiter stabs you with your flatware (damaging a nerve and causing you to lose some sensation in your hand), would you just shrug it off?

Yeah...that's what I thought.

2 replies

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:25 PM

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There is a difference between being stabbed by someone and spilling something on yourself either by accident or stupidity.

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February 6, 2010 10:30 PM

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So if a waiter accidentally stabs you with your knife while handing it to you, that's totally different than this situation where (based on the description above) the employee didn't secure the lid, which led to the coffee being spilled.

Interesting. Please explain the difference in legal liabilty of the two examples.

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:47 PM

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Actually yes it is different because of two reasons, one your waiter should never be handing you your knife blade first or any kind of silverware point first and two silverware at place like that are mostly on the table or given on your plate for exactly that reason.

Also short of taping it down or gluing it and letting it sit, there is no way to secure a disposible cup lid so it never comes off. Your analogy is flawed.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:46 AM

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Short of putting a sealed knife guard on the knife blade, there is no way to be sure that a waiter cannot possibly stab you. What if you dropped your steak knife and he's putting a new one on the table for you?

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt the defensive attribution party. Carry on.

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 12:05 PM

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If a person is putting a knife on the table and then suddenly stabs me, that is not an accident and I would be pressing assault charges.

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February 7, 2010 10:55 PM

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So how do we know the person at the drive-thru window didn't have malicious intent here?

$\"user-pic\"$

February 7, 2010 2:43 PM

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You're not even good at trolling. How sad.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 2:39 PM

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Sigh. Unsubtle troll is lacking in subtlety.

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LadyTL

February 7, 2010 10:04 PM

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How am I trolling by knowing the difference between a plausible accident and assault? I would say you are trolling by claiming I am a troll and not bringing up how I am wrong or making any contribution to the discussion.

","","

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howescj

February 6, 2010 9:52 PM

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Normally, I'd say no way in hell to her suit but the fact that she's asking for a reasonable amount (presumably the 7K is to cover medical bills and the lost wages is surprisingly almost nothing) makes me think that it has merit and should be looked into. Especially since its not just that the coffee is hot but that the lid was not secured properly. With the low amount being asked I'd say that if McDonalds doesn't just settle now for the 8k then it truly doesn't have a soul or good financial sense, given legal costs.

1 replies

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:27 PM

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Unless they taped or glued the lid down there is no way to truly secure it from oh say the top being squeezed too much.

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BytheSea

February 6, 2010 10:01 PM

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This this is a rerun.

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$\"user-pic\"$

February 6, 2010 10:08 PM

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It happens, I've had coffee spill on me this way. For all appearances the lid looks like it's on, but one small part didn't quite get over the rim. One time, when it was handed to me the other person was holding the middle portion, leaving me to grab the upper part. The lid held just long enough for him to let go, then it popped off. The cup, missing the support of the lid, immediately bent inwards and slipped out of my hand. It fell onto the counter, about 4 inches or so. The impact of the cup hitting the counter bounced coffee back up, covering my hand in coffee. I had nice pink skin for a bit after that. I think he had just given me a tray of food with the other hand or something, otherwise I try to have a hand under the cup too.

In my case, all I did was ask for some ice, the manager gave me a wet towel too, and they got me a new cup.

I've done the same thing completely on my own at gas stations. Couple hot coffee baths and you learn to run you fingers around the lid a few times until you feel it snap into place. And never to carry it using the lid as support.

Now I've never had 'horrendous scarring' from coffee, or other hot beverage, spills. Were I to get bad enough burns to scar, or at least require medical attention, then maybe I'd ask for compensation for that. If it was the employee's/store's fault, not me being solely clumsy.

","","

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TardCore

February 6, 2010 10:09 PM

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20% of you think she deserves money for spilling HOT coffee on herself? No wonder this country is so screwed up!

1 replies

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mythago

February 7, 2010 4:48 AM

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Because people actually expect businesses to make up for their screw-ups? You're so right. Let's get rid of any laws that impose personal responsibility on people who have \"Inc.\" or \"LLC\" after their names.

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$\"user-pic\"$

February 6, 2010 10:19 PM

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For everyone who says that the woman should not, under any circumstances get $8,000, how much would I have to pay you for me to pour a cup of hot coffee on you?

3 replies

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TardCore

February 6, 2010 11:47 PM

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Uh, they didn't do it on purpose. It's called an accident and again for the slow learners IT'S HOT COFFEE!!!

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:42 AM

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I notice you didn't answer the question.

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zomg!

February 7, 2010 10:31 AM

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I accidentally hit a car once. I shouldn't have to pay for damages, should I?

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February 7, 2010 10:53 AM

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For slow learners, it's called negligence

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Colonel Jack O'neill

February 6, 2010 10:33 PM

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On the lid, it says caution contents is hot.
Coffee is supposed to be hot.

And if the person handed it to her, where she would have to reach out of the car window, it would have spilled on the ground, not on her leg.

1 replies

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pantheonoutcast

February 7, 2010 7:24 AM

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I was thinking the same thing - the cup had passed from employee to customer and was inside the car. That's the only way it could have spilled on her LEG. If the top had come off as the employee was handing it to her, it would have spilled on her HAND.

It was an accident, she deserves nothing.

","

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humphrmi

February 6, 2010 10:36 PM

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She seeks $7,182 for her pain and suffering, plus another $318 for lost wages and medical expenses.

Here's where her case falls apart, IMHO (and I'm not a lawyer.) There is a reason why even the most litigious states limit punitive damages (things like \"pain and suffering\") to three times actual damages. And yes, some states don't limit at all, but the US Supreme Court has taken a hard stand at about 100x, and even then in only the most extreme cases. They (the Supremes) maintain that there must be a reasonable relationship between the level of punitive damages awarded and the actual harm suffered.

Specifically, Oregon sets punitive limits at about 4x actual damages. (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004266465_punitive07m.html)

McDonalds might offer her a settlement, but given the disparity between actual losses and punitive losses, and the limits that Oregon imposes, she'll be lucky if she doesn't end up paying their court costs.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 5:32 AM

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1) If you bothered to RTFA, she's not asking for punitive damages. She's asking for compensatory damages (the $318) and non-economic damages, colloquially 'pain and suffering' (the $7,182). If you file a lawsuit and want punitive damages (not \"punitive losses\", which don't exist), you have to ASK FOR THEM IN YOUR LAWSUIT. Otherwise you don't get them. Period.

2) Since you're not a lawyer, why are you making ludicrous misstatements about law that doesn't apply to this case anyway?

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February 6, 2010 10:42 PM

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It depends... if the lid was not firmly in place, or the coffee was hotter than it should have been (don't know if that's provable), then I think the suit has merit.

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Grrrrrrr, now with two buns made of bacon.

February 6, 2010 10:43 PM

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As soon as I read \"nervous shock\" and \"pain and suffering\", the BS alarm went off. I'd give her enough to cover the cost of treating the burns and nothing more.

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CTAUGUST

February 6, 2010 10:43 PM

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I think she had no right to sue. That said, I don't understand why drinks are served so hot. I will occasionally get hot chocolate at Dunkin Donuts and it's BOILING! I will burn my tongue every time if I don't wait what seems like 15-20 minutes before attemping to sip it. Why on Earth do they feel they have to serve drinks so hot? You are asking for trouble.

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Mr. FixIt is a Domestic Extremist

February 6, 2010 10:52 PM

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Now, forgive me if I'm mistaken, but coffee, tea, and the like is made with BOILING water, which, if my grade-school science hasn't yet departed me, is in excess of one hundred degrees Centigrade.

This MIGHT have something to do with why hot beverages are so hot.

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February 8, 2010 1:37 PM

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Someone's never heard of cold-brewing...

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LadyTL

February 6, 2010 10:50 PM

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Well then just avoid ordering a drink made with hot water and you won't ever have that problem.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:16 AM

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Yeah, because all hot drinks have to be so hot that they cause tissue damage.

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February 7, 2010 10:05 AM

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And yet this issue seems to happen less with other hot drinks. For example, when my sister and her boyfriend order their hot Chinese herb jelly drink (because I order mine iced) it comes to them at a temperature of about 100F, in a semi-durable plastic cup with a reasonably strong lid (looks like a Starbucks cold-drink cup but somehow rated for hot drinks). You can hold it by its top and it won't come off. Why does McD's fail here?

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bennshu

February 6, 2010 10:50 PM

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Part of me wants to run up to her and just yell: \"STELLA!!!!!!\"

But on a more serious note, she'd probably have a better time arguing that the McDonald's employee negligently passed her the coffee or that the lid was defective or not put on properly. Since the most famous of McDonald's hot coffee lawsuits, I don't know if any court would allow someone to recover damages because the coffee was too hot -- unless of course it happened to be as hot or hotter than what it was in that first lawsuit. When would a hot beverage ever be cool enough to not cause burns but be hot enough for consumers to enjoy consuming?

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February 6, 2010 10:51 PM

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The lids on drinks (when affixed correctly) impart a certain predictable rigidity to the cup. A rigidity that is not there if the lid is not affixed properly, or not there at all. This rigidity enables the user to hold the cup by smaller points of contact, i.e. the tips of the fingers and thumb rather than the whole hand. This is advantageous when given hot coffee in a thin paper cup. However, when you grab a cup that way, you're squeezing between 2 points instead of around the circumference of the cup. The force can cause the cup to crush together at the top and spill.

If someone hands me a cup with a lid on it, I'm going to assume that they put it on right, because 99% of the time they do. I would grab it and assume that the force I impart with my grip will not crush the cup. Sometimes the employees hand you the drink so that the only way you can take it from them is by the lid. Again 99% of the time it's on there pretty well and doesn't spill.
If someone handed me a cup with no lid on it, I would grab it in such a way that most of the weight is supported at the bottom where the cup is more rigid, has a smaller diameter, and there's also a margin between the paper and my hand.

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matt1256

February 6, 2010 10:56 PM

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Coffee spilled on the lady's right leg. That means unless the drive thru attendant was hanging by her ankles and holding it over the woman's right side (North America drives on the left, so the hand-off happened on the left side outside of the vehicle) only the woman is responsible. All of those lids can be popped off by too tight a squeeze. Headlines should read \"Local woman not careful enough with coffee, burns self\".

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February 6, 2010 11:05 PM

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Oh no, people aren't responsible for anything they do these days, right? Its always the companies responsibility to be the parent, right?

Please, this happened before, they lady sued and got rich..I was against the concept then and Im still against it, people who sue companies over stuff like this are nothing more then scammers looking to get rich. Im siding with mcdonalds on this, end of story.

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February 7, 2010 8:08 AM

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And you are a jerk, end of story. Let it happen to you and you will be telling a different story, and another jerk like you will be howling what a greedy m-fer you are, and Fox News will be calling for your assassination. Well, not literally, but practically.

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acasto

February 7, 2010 11:46 AM

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So everybody who disagrees with you are jerks? It seems that that is all you have been doing on this topic is digging through the comments to call out those you deem to be \"jerks\". I guess I'll just go ahead a label myself a \"jerk\" since I think a grown adult with any experience in drinking coffee out of to-go cups should exhibit reasonable caution and assume the lid might pop off. Every time I get a coffee to-go I put a napkin around where the seam meets the lid. Though it would be nice to have cups that I know won't drip on me I exhibit caution because it is easier to do the napkin thing than scrub coffee out of my pants later.

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February 7, 2010 12:23 PM

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Accidents happen. If you sell coffee hot enough to burn then sooner or later somebody will get burned. This is common sense. By selling coffee hot enough to burn people you are guaranteeing that somebody will be burned by your coffee. Somebody will trip. Or a kid will gab it and drink it. Or there will be one of a million other causes.The only way to avoid this is to sell coffee cool enough that it does not burn people when it is spilled on them.

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cbutler

February 6, 2010 11:11 PM

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never mind the lawsuit,. This is the very reason why I don't use establishments like this to get coffee. Why does it have to be lava hot!? If I order a mcdonalds coffee I know I have to let it sit for 30 minutes before I can touch it without burning my lips and tastebuds. Coffee shouldn't be that hot! Fast food joints for some reason have to have the hottest coffe on earth. Where is the demand for such temperatures? Last time I checked, Starbucks is pretty well known for coffee and it's never hot enough to melt my pants or provide 3rd degree burns to my junk. Besides, because mcdonalds coffee is so hot, it's burned and tastes like crap.

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john

February 7, 2010 3:10 PM

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I will agree with you. Coffee should never be served that hot. By extracting/brewing coffee at such high temperatures, you get all the bitter acidic compounds that ruins the good flavors in coffee. Cold brewing is the way to go. If you want it to hot after that, microwave it.

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February 8, 2010 9:46 AM

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+1. I wonder what's with everybody else thinking that coffee has to be just this side of boiled to be \"normal\". Cold-brewing it is for me if I were to make coffee-based drinks at home.

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joetan

February 7, 2010 2:02 PM

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You have lost your mind friend.

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Happy Tinfoil Cat

February 6, 2010 11:13 PM

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Every single time I pull up to the McD, there is a wet pile of ice where similar things happen to people ordering cold drinks. I am careful to ALWAYS get the cup by the cup and not the lid. In case you are wondering, I only order iced coffee. Perhaps McD could use a better cup design, I don't know.

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Happy Tinfoil Cat

February 6, 2010 11:14 PM

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How did it hit her _right_ leg if it was during the process of be handed to her?

4 replies

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February 8, 2010 9:49 AM

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If the cup was tilted towards her when being handed over, it's very possible even before it gets to her hands.

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Happy Tinfoil Cat

February 9, 2010 2:24 PM

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Then the handoff would have to have been well inside the car, which is not possible given the finite length of human arms.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:33 AM

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If she was close to the window, leaning forward to get the cup, and the whole thing spilled. It's not that hard to imagine.

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Happy Tinfoil Cat

February 9, 2010 2:31 PM

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I tried to imagine it, but I can't. It's not possible to have the McDroid hand far enough inside the car to spill the coffee on the RIGHT leg (in a country with steering wheels on the left side of the car). In Superbowl terms, \"It was a fumble, not an incomplete pass\".

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February 7, 2010 12:19 AM

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Don't they serve iced coffee?

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February 7, 2010 12:59 AM

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All this talk about burning is making me nervous. I'm gonna get a cup of ice and I'll be right back.

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maximus

February 7, 2010 1:51 AM

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I am predicting she will be going to court in a neck brace and a sympathy crutch.

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CarnivorousPETA

February 7, 2010 2:05 AM

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I spilled my chicken noodle soup on my leg 2 minutes ago and now it hurts and i'm suffering emotionally. Can i sue Campell's?

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February 7, 2010 2:05 AM

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I'm torn on this issue. On one hand I truly feel that the person in question has absolutely no case whatsoever and is classic example of what's wrong with our legal system, and American in general. On the other hand... Fuck McDonald's!

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mythago

February 7, 2010 5:47 AM

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Some of the comments here are reminding me of a story told by a vague acquaintance who handles medical malpractice cases. The malpractice in question was inflicted on his client during surgery, when she was under full anesthesia.

He thought he had a pretty solid victim-blaming-proof case since, as I mentioned, his client was under FULL ANESTHESIA during the entire time. Yet lo and behold, during jury selection, when he asked his standard question of 'knowing what you have heard so far, is there anything that would make you think the plaintiff was at fault for her injuries'? he was astonished to see one potential juror put her hand up. That person's rationale? \"Well, nobody told her she had to pick that doctor!\"

if only he'd known to steer her to Consumerist.

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February 7, 2010 11:55 AM

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All of these blame the victim posts make me sick. Businesses have a legal and ethical responsibility to avoid accidents. This includes things like shoveling and de-icing the sidewalk, removing objects that people may trip on, and making sure that the drinks you serve are not hot enough to cause burns. Common sense says that if you serve your coffee hot enough to cause burns then sooner or later an accident will happen and somebody will get burned. Blaming the victim is nothing more than bigotry.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 12:20 PM

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It's really 'defensive attribution'. If people are only hurt because they're stupid and venal and deserve what they get, then I never have to worry about being hurt because I'm smart and good!

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February 7, 2010 8:22 AM

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\"Nervous shock\"? What does that even mean? Did she also develop a case of the vapors?

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mhutt

February 7, 2010 8:53 AM

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It left scarring (not like \"ouch that was hot\" but scarred her) and occurred when the employee was handing it to her and the lid came off. If an employee caused me to have scarring on my leg I would sue and her amount is not unreasonable.

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mhutt

February 7, 2010 8:55 AM

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It left scarring (not like \"ouch that was hot\" but scarred her) and occurred when the employee was handing it to her and the lid came off. If an employee caused me to have scarring on my leg I would sue and her amount is not unreasonable. Maybe the cup should say \"if this touches your skin you will be scarred\" not just \"hot\".

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February 7, 2010 9:06 AM

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Maybe this is a stupid question, but why is \"so hot that it will burn your mouth\" the proper temperature to serve coffee?

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mythago

February 7, 2010 12:08 PM

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It isn't.

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razremytuxbuddy

February 7, 2010 9:51 AM

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Whether this lady's suit has merit or not is not my concern here. McDonalds has irresponsibly made a joke of this issue, rather than taking seriously the need to regulate the temperature of its coffee and make sure it gets delivered in a secure vessel.

The lawsuit that is going to get McDonalds' attention someday is when an infant strapped in a car seat beside the coffee recipient gets burns that require hospitalization, not to mention the fact that if a child is burned in the home in that matter, there will be a child abuse investigation. This is the case that, when it happens, will make McDonalds and other fast food providers WISH they'd taken responsibility from Day One, for how they deliver their hot beverages.

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February 7, 2010 9:58 AM

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The original article from OregonLive.com says \"as it was being handed to her by an employee of the defendant, the plaintiff took the cup of coffee and the plastic top fell off and spilled very hot coffee on plaintiff's upper right leg\"

based on that, it says the lady had already taken or was in the process of taking the cup of coffee. anybody that has received a drink from mcdonalds before or any other fast food restaurant for that matter, KNOWS that these lids do not stay on properly all the time and therefore you should have a proper handling of the cup.

Did she order food too? Was she handed food and a cup of hot coffee at the same time and she decided to grab both and she spilled the coffee on her because she was trying to do too much? Did she grab the cup from the top because she didn't want her hand to brush the mcdonalds employee's hand because she's afraid of getting swine flu?

there's alot that goes into this but the main thing is. As a consumer, you have to be smart. Coffee is hot. Lids do not always stay on (if you've ever been to a fast food restaurant).

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mythago

February 7, 2010 2:43 PM

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As a vendor, you have to be smart, too. So you might sell coffee that is still hot, but not hot enough to cause skin damage. You might also invest in lids that snap on securely, and teach your employees not to overfill cups.

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February 7, 2010 10:11 AM

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Ugh, you guys go ahead and make your angry pointless rants about lawyers or whatever, but can ANYONE explain to me why it's an acceptable practice to serve a beverage meant for human consumption at temperatures that can cause serious injuries to any human that actually tries to consume it? It drives me INSANE when I am on the road and I actually want a cup of coffee, but I know nobody will serve me one that I can actually drink without a trip to the hospital. What the hell is the point of that? If lawsuits get places to stop doing this, then I heartily applaud.

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legalguy

February 7, 2010 10:25 AM

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Get ready for it folks. McDonald's will soon be serving only \"tepid\" coffee. This is almost a rerun of a McDonald's suit from many, many years ago. I think that one actually settled for millions. Dumb bee-atch took the coffee at the drive thru, (no lid as I recall) placed it between her legs and hit the gas. The very obvious happened. I recall a picture of that woman and it would seem, from the picture, that hot coffee would be about the only thing to ever get between her legs. Oh crap. I have to stop before I become insulting.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:02 AM

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Wow, wrong, poor reading comprehension AND sexist. Go back and RTFA in the second link. Then you can stop sobbing over the nightmare of tepid coffee.

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Rubedo

February 7, 2010 10:54 AM

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Pretty soon, you will nt be allowed to buy anything hot....Coffee, tea, Soup, a toasted sandwich, because someone doesn't have common sense when it comes to dealing with anything that is not room temperature.

Life has hurts...

Get over it.

2 replies

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February 7, 2010 11:39 AM

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Wow you are extremely immature.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:18 AM

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You must live in a very frightening world.

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February 7, 2010 11:00 AM

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Great, it's 1994 all over again. At least this time there's precedence. Once this case is over though, no matter what the outcome, I bet McDonald starts serving their coffee lukewarm.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:32 AM

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Yeah, that $8000 payout is going to be such a huge blow to McDonalds' bottom line, I bet they'll even start serving their cheeseburgers cold!!!11!!!!

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February 7, 2010 11:21 AM

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I know, we should all know by now that HOT COFFEE may be hot, but if the employee did not put the cover on properly, causing the cup to spill, then McD should be held liable. Not for X $millions, but hey, we are talking $7500 here. If a \"good\" lawyer hears of this, it will be 75 million. Let the court decide.

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joetan

February 7, 2010 11:27 AM

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the only thing this woman deserves is a one way ride to prison for gross stupidity in the 1st degree.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 11:36 AM

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Unfortunately - although, for you, probably fortunately - stupidity is not a criminal offense.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 12:11 PM

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We need to update the bingo card - \"references Liebeck v. McDonald's\"

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February 7, 2010 12:20 PM

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It's good to see from the votes that the large majority of people can see through this scam artist's trick. What's going to happen to her next week? Finger in the chili?

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February 7, 2010 12:24 PM

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Accidents happen. If you sell coffee hot enough to burn then sooner or later somebody will get burned. This is common sense. By selling coffee hot enough to burn people you are guaranteeing that somebody will be burned by your coffee. Somebody will trip. Or a kid will gab it and drink it. Or there will be one of a million other causes.The only way to avoid this is to sell coffee cool enough that it does not burn people when it is spilled on them.

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xanxer

February 7, 2010 12:47 PM

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Let's lobby against selling any hot beverages. Iced coffee only!!!!

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February 7, 2010 2:14 PM

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Didnt this happen before? Multiple times the cases are thrown out...

I have Aflac which pays me for these types of burns, even if the company wont.

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H3ion

February 7, 2010 2:45 PM

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I would be comforted in knowing that the coffee burned her reproductive organs to the point where she can no longer reproduce. That would be worth $7,500.

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torgeaux

February 7, 2010 3:22 PM

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Ah, two choices that aren't in opposition...and ignorance prevails.

If the coffee is TOO hot, it's McDonald's fault. How hot is too hot? Lots of ways to get there...in the last suit, they knew it was too hot to drink, kept it that way to limit refills in spite of reports of severe burns. We'll see how this one goes.

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February 7, 2010 4:52 PM

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I wonder what temperature you need to get coffee boiling at to make people like her brain dead. All those frivolous lawsuits are why things aren't cheaper than they should be.

Hot anything burns. If it spills on your lap, it might hurt but that certainly doesn't warrant $7,500 in damages unless she was wearing some very fancy $7,500 pants.

1 replies

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February 8, 2010 9:57 AM

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\"All those frivolous lawsuits are why things aren't cheaper than they should be.\"
Nooo... Go to the front page and look a couple posts above this one. Sprite's cheaper in China- and things like that happen.

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February 7, 2010 5:25 PM

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Always check the lid. Don't ever trust a low paid McDonald's worker to do things like that. Plus, the lid could have lossened when she grabbed it. That has happened to me at Starbuck's a zillion times.

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Mr. FixIt is a Domestic Extremist

February 7, 2010 5:54 PM

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Upon reading the article, there is nothing to suggest that the coffee left the plaintiff with any lasting injuries, much less 'scarring' or 'tissue damage'. If such were the case, she would be asking a lot more than 300-some-odd dollars for her medical expenses.

$300 sounds like the cost of a Doctor's Appointment, upon which said doctor told her 'Put some aloe on it, take a couple aspirin, and quit wasting my time.'

'Nervous Shock' and 'Emotional Scarring' are nonsense claims from people who try and bilk companies out of their money.

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HenryGale

February 7, 2010 6:29 PM

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I work at Mcdonalds (I know, I know). One time I had coffee spill all over my hand, STRAIGHT out of the brewer. My hand was all burned (no blisters even) but with some generic burn ointment it was fine by the end of the day. I'd like to see the 'scarring'.

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mythago

February 7, 2010 8:21 PM

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Some people scar more than others from burns.

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jared

February 7, 2010 9:31 PM

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If you actually buy and drink McDonalds coffee then your an idiot. It's not coffee. It's coffee flavored colored water with BPH and caffeine added.

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Thora

February 8, 2010 12:17 AM

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I don't think we need another hot coffee lawsuit, but I can kinda see both sides honestly. As a coffee drinker, *I* know that coffee, especially from restaurants where it's kept on the burner, will be HOT when served. Common sense dictates that you handle it carefully, lest you spill it on yourself & end up with burns. On the other hand, I can totally buy the loose lid theory. Half the drinks I get at ANY fast food place(unless you go inside & can fill the cup yourself) have the contents running down the side of the cup with the lid only halfway on. That's what you get when you hire teenagers & illegals who don't give two shits about service I guess, but still- unacceptable.

If the fault IS found to lie with McDs, she should get her medical bills paid, a few coupons, & an apology.

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gorby

February 8, 2010 12:28 AM

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That's a nice flurry of comments about how the McDonald's employee was at fault for spilling the coffee on the woman, what a coherent point --

\"...as it was being handed to her by an employee of the defendant, the plaintiff took the cup of coffee and the plastic top fell off...\" (from the suit; from the article in the OP)

-- oh wait, nevermind.

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n0ia

February 8, 2010 8:54 AM

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Pretty soon McDonald's (and other large chains) are going to stop serving coffee through the drive thru.

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torgeaux

February 8, 2010 8:58 AM

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HenryGale: The difference is what you describe. A bare arm will get less serious burns. What causes the problem is the coffee being held against a small area by the clothing.

McDonald's last time was liable (really) because they knew of the problem, kept it hotter than necessary anyway because they had fewer refills, and knew the cost of settling was so low it was easier/cheaper than correcting the problem. We'll see this time. But, if the employee handed the cup without the lid fastened, so there was nothing the customer could do to avoid the incident, and it caused injury, what else is there to discuss?

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jimv2000

February 8, 2010 12:59 PM

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Uh, she's not asking for a ridiculous amount, and if the lid was indeed not on tightly and the coffee did cause injury, then it is entirely McDonald's fault and they should pay up. She had every right to expect that the lid would be on tightly and that the coffee would not spill.

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jc364

February 8, 2010 1:15 PM

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I'm sure that McDonalds, after losing the original lawsuit, made the necessary changes required to keep from losing this lawsuit again. If not, then they absolutely deserve what's coming.

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February 8, 2010 1:56 PM

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This has happened to me, and it is very frustrating.

If McDonalds cannot guarantee that hot coffee can be safely transfered from the drive-thru window directly into my car, it should not be available via drive-thru. And what I mean by \"guarantee\" is that someone at the window checks and double-checks that the lid is extremely secure on the cup. And in my experience, McDonald's coffee lids are the absolute best-fitting which leads me to believe someone at the window was negligent.

I don't get coffee at the drive-thru very often, but I'd say about 1 in 5 times the lid is loose or ill-fitting.

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February 8, 2010 2:14 PM

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Wow, so many people are quit to comment and blame the woman. I think this issue needs much further investigation. McDonalds have oftentimes been found noncompliant for keeping coffee too hot. Yes, there are actually temperature restrictions for coffee and sometimes restaurants overlook and have their coffee at a higher temperature than what legal food safety compliance allows. Their coffee machines are commercial grade that can heat it up a hell of a lot hotter than the ones we have in our kitchen. If this were the case, the woman could have gotten significant serious burns that would not have come if the coffee was within safe temperatures, therefore she should have received the damages. Sounds like a serious lack of quality assurance with not securing the lid and scalding hot coffee. Also, FYI the 1994 McDonald's lawsuit similar to this, the woman that sued suffered serious 3rd Degree burns, spent 7 days in the hospital, required skin grafts and never filed a lawsuit against anyone until her coffee incident. Maybe people should stop and think before blaming on sparse facts.. JUST SAY'IN..

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February 8, 2010 8:38 PM

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I don't care who dropped the coffee or didn't put the lid on right or should have been more careful...

If this coffee was hot enough to cause scarring, they should pay.

They have known for a long long time that their coffee was too damn hot. Years ago, they turned a similar case into a public relations goldmine. In reality, it was their fault for serving coffee at ludicrous temperatures. Bad coffee at extreme temperatures tastes less bad. They put us at risk to sell more crappy coffee. They pay.

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February 11, 2010 3:00 PM

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How about a \"We don't know the details, trust the court to decide appropriately\" option? Or is that too much for our tort-reform-crazed little brains to manage?

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Javin

February 16, 2010 2:48 PM

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If any of you would actually read the historical cases instead of jumping all over the \"stupid woman who spilled coffee on herself\" you would know that McDonald's typically keeps their coffee much, much hotter than most restaurants, and has been ordered and fined on almost 80 separate occasions to reduce the temperature of their coffee because it's dangerous. This was the cornerstone of the coffee lawsuit and why the woman won. McDonald's was, again, ordered to reduce the temperature of their coffee in that lawsuit, which they did, only to bring it back up to the dangerously hot temperatures a few weeks later.

I have spilled coffee on myself a number of times, and never once has it been hot enough to cause 2nd degree burns, skin sloughing, etc. Their coffee is entirely too hot, and dangerous, and they've been warned repeatedly. I hope to see another multimillion dollar lawsuit. I hope she gets the same lawyer, even, as he's already got the paperwork in order. McD's has been repeatedly and legally ordered to reduce their temperature because it's dangerous, but McD's figures the money they save by keeping it ultra hot (apparently the theory is it will remain fresher for longer) is worth the paltry amount they pay to the people they scar for life.

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