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Happy Anniversary?
2 replies
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Seems like the OP and his wife had a HOT weekend!
Happy Anniversary?
Seems like the OP and his wife had a HOT weekend!
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Thank goodness everyone was OK! That's what matters most here. This looks pretty bad (I like the sparkly image!).
Any idea what the items were that were left in the car? I'm not sure $300 worth of valuables is worth a fight, especially since, you know, you could have died in a fiery inferno. And it sounds like Zipcar was cool through the whole thing. That said...the $300 Zipcar is saving is probably lost on the bad publicity this story right here alone is generating.
I believe some homeowners insurance may cover this kind of thing...can anyone confirm that? Although again, I'm guessing a homeowner's deductable will be greater than $300...
Again, thank goodness no one was hurt.
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Homeowners & renters insurance will cover personal belongings in a car. If Zipcar is responsible for the fire, ie: they didn't perform proper maintenence on it (like that poor girl on here a while back who got stuck with the crap Zipcar, and they continued to let people use it afterwards), then sue Zipcar for the cost of the items. If Zipcar is not responsible, then I hope their deductable is under 500 bucks.
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Homeowners would cover it. And if they're deductible is higher than that, Zipcar isn't responsible.
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Or even the credit card you charged the reservation to might also provide insurance. I don't know if ZIpcar \"owes\" you anything--the service they are providing is a safe automobile to drive (which they didn't and are trying to [poorly] fix). Would ZIpcar be responsible if you drove their vehicle and had your belongings stolen from inside the car because of a robbery?
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Your analogy is incredibly flawed because Zipcar isn't responsible for the robber. What they are responsible for is maintaining the car and keeping it in safe and running condition, which includes making sure there's nothing so horribly wrong with it that it overheats and blows up in the span of ten minutes. This is directly their fault and they had complete control over it, so yes, they should be held responsible.
How are they responsible for what you decide (or don't decide) to bring in a car? I think Zipcar has only has the responsibility to keep their CARS safe. And we are assuming that the OP 100% told the truth in his version of events.
Not sure it was completely in their control. Might have been flawed manufacturing by BMW (Minis don't have the best CU ratings) or perhaps defective replacement parts. In either case, it would not be Zipcar's fault directly.
That said, I think that a reasonable person can expect a car rented from Zipcar to be flame-free while using it, and that it's the responsibility of Zipcar to reimburse the OP for damages sustained while operating equipment owned by Zipcar. Fault and responsibility are two different things.
Well said Jeff-er-ee re: fault/responsibility.
I think Zipcar should pay unless it was spelled out on one of the forms that personal items were not protected from damage, not just lost or stolen. However, John should check his homeowner's/renter's policy, as they often have coverage for personal items lost during travel up to a certain amount.
I'd be very surprised if it wasn't spelled out in the fine print.
Do normal rental cars cover this sort of thing?
I don't think rental cars cover this because personal belongings in a car are not covered under an auto insurance policy.
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Really, none of this matters. If Zipcar gives two shits about its reputation, they'll pay for the items without a second thought, particularly for items worth about $300.
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How long was the vehicle driven after the warning light first came on? I've driven the NYS Thruway before and the distance between exits can be miles. There's always room to pull onto the shoulder on the thruway; it may be a bit nerve-wracking to get out of the car but you can do it. If the manual says \"pull over immediately\" that's what should have been done.
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Some parts of the New York State Thruway don't have such a wide shoulder to pull over on. However they always usually have a small one every small distance apart from each other. Though now that I'm thinking about this it may of been interstate 81 in PA.
\"From the time the warning light came on to when the car was engulfed in flames was about 10 minutes\"
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He definitely should've pulled over. My car overheated once and I made sure to stop the car before it got too hot. I stopped the car before the light even went on just to be safe, then had the car towed. When you read the manual and you don't follow the suggestions, you deserve to have your belongings incinerated.
Exactly. It takes an idiot to not realize that when your engine temperature reaches the \"OMG it's gonna blow\" level, something needs to be done immediately. I'd be willing to bet that they would have acted differently had it been their car. Or if they really weren't aware that a dangerously overheated engine = bad, they shouldn't have been behind the wheel of a car in the first place. I believe the operator of any vehicle should be responsible to know at least the most basic safety aspects of its operation.
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I've driven that stretch of I-87 MANY times, and as you can see in the pictures the OP provided, there's ALWAYS room to pull over. I talked to my SO who drives that stretch daily, bringing milk tankers down to NYC and Long Island, and he also agrees.
Not blaming the OP mind you, but if I had an overheating light come on in my car, you bet your sweet tuckus I'd pull over as quickly as possible. A light flashing on and off doesn't also mean that the problem came and went- it was probably flashing to catch your attention! Many cars have that feature.
Agreed. The NYS Thruway is one of the better designed roads as far as safety is concerned (at least the sections that I have driven on between Syracuse and Buffalo) and there is ample shoulder width to pull over to the side of the road, especially a car as small as a Mini Cooper. The OP said he was on the thruway for about 5 minutes, so at highway speed, he traveled 7-8 miles with the check engine light on (and who knows how many miles with the car running on low coolant)
It is difficult to know exactly what happened, but I would guess that there was a coolant leak of some type, either a leak in a coolant hose or the radiator. The radiator lost its cooling effect and the engine began to overheat Enough coolant leaked out to allow the water pump to sieze (the noises you heard) , causing the serpantine belt to heat up and burn which because of the excessive heat in the engine compartment ignited some wiring or soundproofing insulation.
The OP should be careful, he may have caused ZipCar to lose an entire car as opposed to a few hundred dollars in repairs had the pulled over immediately. Had he pulled over immediately (or not waited 5 minutes to pull over) it is likely that none of his belongings would have been damaged, and the car would be back on the road after a few simple repairs.
Sorry - I think that John shares any culpability here - he ignored the manual recommendations and decided to continue until he started hearing noises...?
Personally, I think that Zipcar would be justified in coming after him for damages, due to obvious and intentional abuse of the vehicle.
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If they're only claiming a loss of about $300 of belongings, zipcar should just cowboy up and pay it instead of letting this get out-of-hand. How's this a big deal for them? They have the cars insured, what does that cover?
I do not believe that rent-a-car companies take responsiblity for personal items (it is probably in the contract). So if somebody breaks into your car and steals your stuff or if you get into an accident and your stuff is destroyed, it is on you and your insurance company.
(To be cynical, ff the poster didn't have the optional annual damage waiver, he is probably fortunate that Zip didn't charge him for the value of the car up to their $500? non covered amount.)
The $300. loss is probably below the poster's own policy deductible.
But here, it seems that there was defect in the car. We do not know whether that defect was the fault of the manufacturer (design flaw) or Zip (poor maintenance). Zip probably should
have settled and then discussed the matter with Mini-Cooper.
Just the posting here has done more than $300. in damage to Zip and Mini Cooper.
My sense is that the poster should report this issue to the manufacturer and, if they don't deal with it, to the National Safety Council or whomever deals with auto defects.
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The OP continued to drive a car after the temp warning light came on. They even kept driving after reading in the manual that the light meant \"Pull over immediately.\" They kept driving until new noises indicated that their continued driving had damaged something else under the hood beyond whatever the initial problem was.
This is not a design defect the manufacturer needs to fix. They put a light there and told them the light meant \"stop immediately\". If you don't follow the instructions & warnings provided it isn't the manufacturer's fault.
manufacture won't do anything besides investigate it.
Not a known problem with mini's so it is probably operator error (hit something) or neglect.
10 minutes running an engine after a overtemp warning light comes on is a BAD idea. This is a risk you take with car sharing, but if you booked it with a credit card, you probably are covered under that insurance.
You sign your life away (literally) when renting a car so, no, I don't think they have a responsibility to replace anything.
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My (bound to be unpopular) opinion:
There is no way for Zipcar to verify that there was anything in the car, let alone $300 worth.
However, I think Zipcar should implement a policy of reimbursing a flat fee per person in cases of car destruction to replace damaged goods. Like $100 a person.
So no claim because there is no way to verify what was in the car? What about every person who has ever had a fire in their home? They get nothing? I have no idea how they do it, but trust me, a claims adjuster will work with the person to figure out what was in the home/car and what is covered. And as for the \"what if I said there was money in the glovebox,\" on most home insurance policies, there is a limit for cash, usually a few hundred dollars.
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I would think the fire department could point out the charred remains of a few personal belongings in the back, enough to at least prove there were items of some sort there.
Absolutely Zipcar can - and their claims adjusters will - examine the vehicle, and find the personal property left there. Unless these couple's belongings were highly flammable (first edition Going Rogue), then they are still all melty and burnt up in the Mini. Insurance companies do this all the time and Zipcar should have no trouble doing it.
I'm in agreement here. I could easily claim I had $5000 in cash that I left in the glove box, or something to that effect.
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But he's not claiming $5,000 cash. He's claiming $300 in stuff. It would be an easy thing to do as a goodwill gesture, if nothing else. I'm sure if he was trying to scam them, he wouldn't aim so low.
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I agree that the company is not liable for the contents of the car, as
1.) there is no way to verify the contents of the car or their value
2.) I am sure they agreed to this in the contract they signed
THAT being said, its only $300 stupid dollars. Just pay em the money to turn this from a PR nightmare to PR gold mine. I dont understand these companies and their lack of proactive PR, they'll spend 10s of thousands on marketing only to ignore something like this that will no doubt end up on the 1st page of any google search a potential customer may do.... just stupid
Zipcar could (and their claims department will) examine the car, including the front and back seat, the trunk, etc. Unless the valuables were highly flammable (a first-edition copy of Going Rogue) there will be melted, burnt up evidence of the valuables lost in the fire.
(let me clarify, car destruction that is not the renter's FAULT)
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Zipcar members must take Zipcar's insurance - how does it not cover this? And the most likely thing is that it's due to negligence on the part of Zipcar (they can be awful about getting anything repaired), so even if their insurer won't do it, they should put up the money and quick.
Having been a Zipcar member for about 2 years now, I've grown less and less satisfied with it.. fear of an incident similar to this will probably prevent me from renewing my membership next month. Great work, Zipcar! Keep building that brand!
Auto insurance doesn't cover belongings in a car. That's what homeowners/renters insurance is for.
Not all homeowners or renters policies cover belongings. I know from experience.
Renter's insurance is designed specifically to cover your belongings- the one thing that the landlord's homeowner's insurance won't cover.
Whether a particular renter's insurance policy covers stuff in a car, I have no idea.
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I think the simple answer to this is that Zipcar's insurance is likely required to cover them and their interests, not you and yours.
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Zippo Car... come on you were thinking it!
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That comment wins the thread! :D
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Surely Zipcar's own insurance covers this. They should pay out. They'd be paying out big time if the PEOPLE in the car had been damaged by their car ... they should pay out for the stuff, too. And really, $300 of stuff is not too much to ask for some good publicity and being seen as a stand-up company AFTER CLIENTS ALMOST DIE IN A HORRIFIC CAR FIRE! Holy moly.
Zip car's insurance is, I presume, an auto insurance policy. That doesn't cover personal belongings.
Can't a fire marshall determine where the fire came from? Or can't the vehicles' repair/maintenance records be requested? Small claims court? I've never heard of a vehicle setting afire that quickly unless there was a severe manufacturers defect (see:Ford) or something wasn't fixed in a timely manner.
I agree, their insurance should cover it completely. $300 is not a lot. Heck, if I lost my cell phone in a car fire such as this, it's $200 brand new to replace. (And a simple phone at that!)
The company should show more remorse for this unfortunate incident. This poor couple isn't asking for much, just to replace their belongings. Not to gain anything extra.
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If they have a list of items destroyed then it shouldn't be a problem. I would imagine they would have auto insurance and between their provider and the compaines provider, with some work on the couples part they should be able to have any of their items reimbursed depending on their deductable. I know that when I was in the hospital last April I had over 500 dollars worth of my stuff stolen and both myself and the police officer believe that it was the hospital staff my home owners insurance would cover the loss but I had a 500 dollar deductable so I wouldn't have been able to recover any of my costs. I would imagine with some pushing they could get the company to pay the costs because of the possible loss of life that could have occurred.
Number one, most Zipcar customers do not have a car, therefore no insurance. One of Zipcar's selling point is that you get insurance when you rent the car. Unfortunately, this likely falls under your homeowners or renters insurance in this case. I wouldn;t try to fight the lost items. I WOULD make a huge issue over loss of time, loss of the car, the amount of effort you had to put into fixing this issue. I do not blame Zipcar for the fire, most car fires have very little to do with maintenance issues.
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They probably don't have auto insurance since they don't have a car... that's why they're using Zipcar to begin with!
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Wow...I'll never ride in a Mini whether its owned by Zipcar or not. Give this guy some money so he can replace his stuff cause there is no way this is his fault.
If your concern of Minis is due to the fire, it is not well founded. There is one simple way to seriously decrease the risk, if the light that means \"pull over immediately\" comes on, pull over immediately. Don't keep driving for another 5 minutes until your ignoring the light causes something else to go wrong and start the fire.
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Ummm, with all due respect why not? I've owned my mini cooper for seven years with minimal issues (especially compared to all cars I've owned). The car in general is not without its problems, but at least on the discussion boards I frequent, seems to be perceived as having above-average reliability. I've never heard of a car-beque like this before either.
If you are talking safety-wise, then I presume you avoid all compact cars? especially since many of them are rated much poorer than the mini.
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If they have homeowners' or renters' insurance, items in their car may be covered by that. Of course, that kind of insurance tends to have at least $500 of deductible and as CR has reported, making too many claims on your homeowners' policy can lead to big premium hikes or denial of coverage in the future. But I mention it for reference, in case there was ever a similar situation where someone lost a few thousand dollars' worth of camera equipment or something like that.
I believe that Zipcar probably doesn't HAVE to cover this, in legal terms. However, this does reveal at least some questions pertaining to their maintenance record, and it's just a big ugly mess of a story, so it would have been worth $300 (or a portion thereof) for them to have avoided the bad publicity, and in fact possibly received good publicity.
Then again I'm sure some bean counter on their end would figure out that if there was good publicity, that'd attract just enough fraudulent cases to cost them more than the good publicity was worth...
*sigh*
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If no one will pay them back, they should try contacting the consumer fraud department at their county DA's office. I worked there for a year and helped a guy get $1,000 from a rental car company when his stuff got stolen. And he did not buy the extra insurance. : )
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I believe this falls into the \"be a f***ing human\" category. Your car almost killed someone. They lost $300 worth of stuff. Replace it and be happy they aren't suing you.
What if the driver's negligence (driving for 5 minutes or more with the check engine light on) was the cause of the vehicle fire? If this were the case, then the OP caused several tens of thousands of dollars damage to Zip's car and he was responsible for the loss/damage of his personal property.
Granted, there are not enough details to know exactly what caused the fire, but it sounds like the car detected a problem, and the driver chose to ignore the warnings which may have contributed to the fire.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely co-signed. This is horrible. They were seconds from being killed by this company's negligence, and the shoulder-shrugging attitude is disgraceful.
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How did you determine that the fire was caused by \"the company's negligence\"?
From the fact that this company is known to rent out cars that have serious issues, and leave their customers up sh*t creek. Once you do this enough times, you lose the benefit of the doubt.
I've worked in auto claims for years.
Sometimes vehicles catch fire through no fault of the owner. it could be a manufacturers defect for all anyone knows.
additionally- personal property is never covered whether it is a rental or your own car unless it is permanently installed (i.e. dvd player or aftermarket radio).
i may be wrong, but i always understood personal property claimed from an auto loss would be something claimed on a homeowners or renters policy.
sounds to me like zipcar treated them pretty well although if i were the people that rented the mini i would be upset too.
Thank you! Reading this thread, I'm surprised that so many people don't know that. If this is news to you, you probably need a better agent. My clients know it, guaranteed.
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Amazing photos and horrible story, but I am, in general with Zipcar. Interesting that the story doesn't mention the value of the 'few' items they couldn't get out of the car. I'm sure that as a condition of Zipcar membership you have to have (auto) insurance and there is likely a disclaimer indicating that they cannot be responsible for personal belongings.
John & his wife's renters or homeowners insurance should cover lost / damaged / burned items.
You know what is more interesting than that? This quote from the story you just read:
\"I informed them that I had lost some items in the car, but we were lucky to get most of the items out. They told me that they would in no way cover my lost items (about $300).\"
I love the wording of the poll, \"replace John and his wife's belongings.\" So they should replace John, and also his wife's belongings? hahaha English is a funny language.
I'm having a hard time not putting a lot of the blame on the customer here. Common sense should tell you not to keep driving if your temperature warning light comes on. The warning won't even come on until your engine reaches several hundred degrees. 10 minutes of highway driving above the warning temperature with a cooling system that is at best insufficient and at worst completely malfunctioned? Fire can easily result.
Several hundred degrees?
Huh?
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As in many hundred.
What's hard to understand about that? Fire is hot.
Doesn't look like you had a very hard time of it at all.
I can't imagine that this sort of scenario occurs often for Zipcar. There is no way that the cost savings of not reimbursing the personal items ($300 according to customer) is worth the negative PR which is being generated as a result. Not to mention the increased chances of a lawsuit.
Umm... Who opens the manual when your temp gauge in the red zone? When it comes to vehicles in general, red usually means STOP. True, the car must've had pre-existing mechanical problems, but I still call the fault 50/50. The driver of the rental showed severe lack of judgement or, perhaps, disregard for property that wasn't his own. There was plenty of room to pull over on that interstate.
How do you know there was room? He said there was no shoulder. What exactly would you have done?
There's always enough room. It's not worth risking your engine or entire car just because you don't want to inconvenience yourself or others by pulling off to the shoulder. If anyone else experiences a car overheating, I certainly hope they pull over as soon as possible to prevent permanent damage to the engine or an explosion. FYI, turning the heater on all the way may cool the engine down a little.
If you're not knowledgeable about cars, always trust the manual and the warning lights. Don't ever let the tachometer, temperature gauge, or anything else enter the \"red zone.\" Red means \"stop,\" NOT \"drive for 10 minutes until you find a suitable exit or until you start hearing abnormal noises\".
I have a red \"wrench\" symbol that comes on when my car is due for an oil change. Should I immediately pull over and call the dealership for a tow?
The OP said themselves, 'the warning light goes off and comes back on, only to go away again. About 5 minutes of this..' I would feel bad if they immediately/quickly stopped. But they didn't. They DESTROYED that car.
To put it this way, if they borrowed your car, would YOU pay them after they destroyed YOUR car?
I have to overwhelmingly agree with you here. I'm not sure why so many others commenting have jumped to so many illogical conclusions. Perhaps people didn't RTFA?
People are claiming they were \"within seconds\" of their lives ending. That this is \"obviously\" the fault of the company.
Crazy Friday, I guess. :-)
Seconded. I've never disagreed with so many posters on an article before. Has everyone lost their minds? Dude kept driving even when the light was on. Zipcar should go after him for destroying its property. If he can't get reimbursement from his homeowners/renters policy, too damn bad.
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I don't care if the OP kept driving the car until the engine seized up from overheating, the car shoud not have caught fire. And exploding? No, it shouldn't do that, either. Not ever.
Perhaps this is a defect specific to modern Mini-Coopers, but regardless, the liability ZipCar faces is fairly clear - they rented a car that, except for some quick thinking and action on the part of the renter, could have caused two deaths. That sounds like \"reckless disregard\" for the most basic of maintenance.
Sorry ZipCar, but when you leave a customer standing on the side of the road watching the car they barely escaped with their lives burn and actually EXPLODE (see 3rd photo), you give a full refund to the traumatized customers, and you thank your lucky stars that they do not sue you into Chapter 7 liquidation for your reckless approach to dealing with the inevitable result of your reckless approach to maintenance and inspections.
Hahahaha ... might as well have said \"I dont care if the OP filled the car with newspaper and threw in a lit match, the car should not have caught fire.\"
Cars catch fire. Cars can explode when on fire. Cars are full of combustible material and some of that material is under pressure. Please, do us all a favor and design a car that will NEVER explode. Until then we will all have to assume a certain amount of risk every time we get behind the wheel.
Car fires are usually sudden and without warning and have NO connection to maintenance. You could sue them all you want, but you would lose unless it was willful and malicious. The fact they made it all the way to their trip and half way back shows ZIPCAR was not the last entity to have possession of the car. The law would require you to prove ZIPCAR did something wrong.
When an engine is producing an amount of heat that cannot be effectively dissipated, it will eventually reach a high enough temperature to ignite gasoline, oil and plastics. Any engine will. That's what the temperature gauge and warnings lights are for.
Cars don't \"seize up\" from overheating. They catch fire. The OP didn't immediately pull over when the overheating light (which basically says, \"Stop now, or the car can get hotter and hotter, eventually catching on fire\").
Car engine typically \"seize up\" from low oil, which would be more Zipcar's fault (though you should always check fluids before embarking on a road trip).
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There is no evidence here that Zipcar was \"reckless\" in its maintenance of the car. You are simply drawing that conclusion from the fact that car caught fire. Newsflash: Cars have lots of moving parts, and lots of parts that create immense amounts of heat. Sometimes, catastrophic failures occur that are not the result of any \"reckless\" maintenance.
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This isn't anyone's fault, it's not Zipcar, it's not BMW.
Inside the engine block is a combustible flame which is firing thousands of times per second, it can misfire, and no one will notice, that can cause a fire.
It could have been a faulty electrical problem, and something got shorted.
Or a number of other problems.
When people do PM on a car, more then likely they ain't pulling off the heads and looking at them.
They ain't pulling out the engine to inspect it.
It's hard to say what caused it, they are a number of things that could have gone wrong.
Also these people shouldn't get nothing back for the damaged items, unless they can prove that they were in the car. He could have said that he had an original Rembrandt in there.
He say's: \"Realizing the engine is on fire, we grab (almost all) of our belongings from the back of the car, move away from the vehicle, and call 911.\"
Shouldn't he have called 911 first, and forget about anything in the car.
An electrical problem is either BMW's fault for selling a defective car or it's Zipcar's fault for not properly maintaining the car.
What in the world can a spark plug ignite when a car is properly maintained and isn't defective?
Zipcar owns the car. Zipcar's car caught on fire with people inside it. Either Zipcar bought a defective product and needs to take it up with the manufacturer, or they failed to maintain the car to keep it in a safe operating condition.
You do realize that cars contain consumable parts that sometimes fail catastrophically, without any warning and without any fault? Further, the car might not have gotten to the point of catching on fire had the OP followed the manual's directions and pulled the car over immediately.
What Zipcar REALLY should do is figure out why the car turned into a fireball. This kind of sh*t just don't happen randomly. Something is very wrong, and someone can get killed or badly injured next time.
As for the personal items destroyed, if the car burning turns out to be clearly Zipcar's fault, then yes they should pay for them. But if this happens, the cost of these personal items will be Zipcar's least trouble.
What caused the car to turn into a fireball was the OP driving for miles after a light that meant \"pull over immediately\" went on. The temp light came on because the car was above the proper temp, they kept driving, the temp kept rising and eventually it got hot enough that something under the hood caught fire.
So the part that failed? The nut holding the steering wheel.
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Your homeowner's policy covers items in the car. If you don't have a homeowner's (or renter's) policy, this is one reason why you need one.
Although $300 probably would be less than your deductible...
AMEX may cover your belongings. Check with AMEX.
The OP said the light came on, they consulted the manual which told them to stop the car and let it cool. Against the direction of the manual, he kept driving for what sounds like several miles.
1) If you don't know what to do when the \"car is overheating\" light comes on, you shouldn't be driving your own car, much less someone else's.
2) If you don't know what to do, consult the manual, but don't follow what the manual instructs, it's your own fault.
*nod* 5 minutes at highway speeds is going to be at least 5 miles, which is pretty far to go if the manual says \"pull over immediately\".
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File a claim with your Homeowners as there is no contents coverage on your Standard Auto policy either.
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Silly. Zipcar should replace the stuff the OP can prove he brought. If OP's treasured Faberge eggs were completely vaporized - well, hell, he should have grabbed 'em before the car asploded.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1425332-100x100.png\")
I am rather flabbergasted Zipcar is not bending over backwards for this guy. They could have been killed! As a company, I would have ensured that his entire experience with Zipcar cost him $0 including the cost fo rental, items lost, everything. And then probably would also give him additional vouchers for a future rental.
I mean, wow, that's just insane! A rental car blows up (ok, catches on fire)! Why are they saying anything but \"yes, sir\" to him?
Why should they? By his own admission he continued to drive the car knowing it had a heat problem and that he should pull over. Hell, one could easily conclude that he destroyed Zipcar's car by not immediately pulling over, as the manual instructs. Perhaps he should consider himself lucky Zipcar hasn't sued him for destroying the car.
I find the comments referring to Zipcar's \"negligence\" here interesting. What evidence is there that Zipcar was in any way negligent? Hell, the only evidence of any negligence that currently exists is the negligence of the OP, who continued to drive the car in the face of an overheat indication AND knowledge that the manufacturers recommended procedure was to immediately pull over. Given that there is absolutely no evidence as to what caused the initial overheat, it's incredibly premature to declare Zipcar negligent or at fault in any other manner. Further, good luck to the OP if he decides to sue, given that his message to Consumerist could be used as evidence against him in his suit.
I used the term \"negligence\". Any basic course in internal combustion engines (we engineer types take such courses) will include the amazing lack of combustibility of gasoline outside the compression of the engine. If you see a car engine on fire, it is electrical, and a very short-lived fire, or it is oil burning, which can engulf the car. Oil can only burn is there is a serious oil leak, and while a small oil leak is possible as a result of a head gasket failure, oil is under ZERO pressure if the engine is stopped, so there would not be enough oil to make much fire.
So, I'm betting that this car had a serious oil leak for a long while, which both caused the overheating, and provided the fuel for the fire, as the oil leaked all over an engine block that got hotter and hotter.
You can pour gas on a very hot engine block and not ignite the gas. But oil ignites and burns at temps that enigine blocks can attain, with dark black smoke like the smoke in the photos.
The explosion? That had to be the battery, the fact that it exploded means that it was fully charged up and not shorted out when the fire started, pointing yet again to a large amount of oil all over the engine compartment to fuel the fire.
The only question in my mind is why the \"OIL\" light never came on if my guesses are correct. I'd expect the \"OIL\" light to come on long before the engine would overheat from a lack of oil.
And cars are very very hard to get to explode, despite what you see in the movies.
This is on Zipcar, why they're not shelling out for 300 dollars to keep someone from badmouthing them all over the place is ridiculous.
Anyone ever had an engine fire? I've got a 20 year old car that still hasn't caught on fire (knock on wood) but you have to do some things to a car to get the engine to catch on fire. With a new car like this, you've got to have a serious maintenance issue for it to overheat at all, let alone catch on fire. We're talking broken pumps, lack of (not low) coolant, or engine oil problems.
Granted, they should have pulled it over as soon as the light came on and called Zipcar to come and get them and take back their hoopty deathmachine, but they would have had to be doing something very stupid to overheat the thing in the first place, and it doesn't sound like they were pulling a trailer with the thing.
It boggles my mind that a car rental company would not be equipping its cars with fire extinguishers for exactly this reason. Besides the fact that it might allow them to keep some of its cars, it's much less likely that they're going to kill someone and destroy all their stuff inside the car.
I have been involved in a vehicle before. While it was a decade ago, it was a fairly new and well maintained vehicle at the time. Not all vehicle problems can be prevented with regular maintenance.
And low coolant levels is just as likely to cause a problem as no coolant. That is why there is a minimum level mark right there on the coolant resevoir, it is the minimum level of coolant needed to operate the vehicle safely (not cause the engine to overheat and start a fire).
It is actually easier for new cars to overheat if something goes out of whack, as tolerances are tighter, and things are much more tightly packed into the engine bay.
It wouldn't take a lot of abuse to cause a car to overheat, something as simple as a bad fan relay or stuck thermostat can cause it. However once the temp light comes on, continuing to drive for another 5min could constitute abuse.
Rental companies don't put extinguishers in cars for two reasons a)they are likely to get stolen (they don't put floor mats in cars for the same reason) b)fighting a car fire with a small extinguisher is potentially *very* dangerous and unlikely to be successful.
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It sounds like most of you don't know much about cars. All it takes for a car to overheat to the point of fire is a stuck thermostat. On a car as new is this, it wouldn't have been due for a new thermostat, and there is no way to \"check\" a thermostat's condition, other than to drive the car and make sure it operates at the proper temperature.
When thermostats stick shut, there is no warning, and no way to know in advance that it may happen. It just happens. There's no way ZipCar or any other car owner can tell if it is going to happen. And it only takes minutes of highway driving to overheat the engine to the point of the engine completely stopping. And at the temperatures it reaches when this happens, a fire can very easily start.
I have to blame the OP on this one. The temperature gauge was high and the warning light was on, and he continued to drive for 10 minutes. Those so-called \"idiot\" lights are there for a reason. Only an idiot would ignore them.
ZipCar should not be at fault for the OP knowingly driving a car that was overheating and warning him to stop. The wife even looked in the manual and it instructed them to pull over and let the engine cool down.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-95687-100x100.png\")
There had to have been something wrong with that car for it to overheat and then catch fire in New York, on a freeway, in the middle of autumn. Seriously, Minis use an electric fan (like all FWD cars built in the past 10 years) so failed fan clutch or broken belt can't be to blame. The car was driving on a highway at highway speeds so the fan wouldn't have been running anyway. The fact the car warned of overheating suggests that the car was full on coolant. (Temp gauge won't work if there's no coolant). My guess is a stuck thermostat on the engine. This allowed the engine to get hot enough to possibly ignite some component under the hood, or fuel. Judging by the fact that steam was seen first I don't think the fire came before. I guess the radiator could have been caked with a thick layer of crud and that might also do it.
When a thermostat on an engine fails and sticks closed it can be the coldest day on record and it'll overheat going down the freeway. Liquid cooled engines aren't designed to give up much heat to the air via the heads and block. 90% of the cooling happens in the radiator. I don't know how a Mini's cooling system is plumbed, but on any of my vehicles if the thermostat does ever get stuck shut you can always roll down the windows and angle the dashboard vent registers outside while running the heater on full blast. Not a pleasant feeling certainly, but it can definitely give your car enough cooling to make it to a safe place to wait for roadside assistance, especially if its a cold day. After all, the heater core in the car is a tiny radiator.
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If I were zipcar and read your post, not only would I not pay you for your items, but I would go after you for the damage to the car. You're admitting that the light came on, and you ignored it. The thruway has ample room on the shoulders where one can pull over and wait, and the car would probably still be drivable. I would take what they offer here and be thankful.
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Most of the Thruway has shoulders, but some parts don't, especially in the mountains. There are parts in mountainous areas where there's a small shoulder and a guardrail, but not enough space where I'd be comfortable pulling over. I frequently think about this, since there are similar stretches on the highway between my house and my parents'.
This trip started in the Catskills. Those are mountains.
Zipcar probably doesn't really care; Zipcar's insurance carrier is another story. The OP will be really lucky if the insurance carrier, if/when they discover this admission, doesn't decide to pursue him.
Most rental car companies are self insured and handle their own losses (unless it exceeds a massive threshold). So this probably is zip cars money, and it is definitely a loss of an asset (the car).
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1504-100x100.png\")
One thing different about Zipcar is that they provide insurance to their drivers. Most rental companies have drivers provide their own insurance.
While I agree with you re: most rental car companies, I'm not sure Zipcar does. I vaguely recall seeing an insurance card for one of the major carriers in one of the cars I've used. However, if they do indeed self-insure, you're right, Zipcar would be going after them.
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I like the picture that looks like a phosphorous bomb is going off. That's fantastic shooting.
Nice flame job...
i've only had one issue with zipcar before and it was minor, they made up for it by far.
plus recently I sent them a story about a good experience i had with zipcar when i had to take my wife to give birth, they without even telling me sent me a zipcar onesie for my new daughter, that was cool of them to do.
Is the ash & burnt red an available exterior color option from Mini now?
While I do think Zipcar should reimburse you as a nice gesture (it costs them so much more in bad publicity not to and Zipcar has gotten quite a bit of bad publicity lately), I don't believe they are legally obligated to. Unless you had the extra insurance (which they do offer), but even then, I am not sure what the deductible would be.
Regardless, if you have homeowners or renter's insurance, your items should be covered under those plans. When I had some items stolen from a friend's car some time ago, my homeowner's policy covered the loss. Again, you may have a large deductible which makes it a wash, but worth checking into.
\"and their credit for a future car rental has been upgraded to a BMW.\"
Does it still expire in two weeks?
On most cars I have ever driven, the dashboard warning lights are color coded to help you decide how to respond to them. A yellow warning light (such as \"Check Engine\" or \"Service Engine Soon\") means \"deal with this as soon as its convenient, but quickly\". The exception might be if the light is flashing. If the warning light is red (such as your brake warning light), stop as soon as you can and have the car towed.
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+10
The Mini Cooper doesn't have a temperature gauge. It has an \"OMFG PULL OVER NOW\" light.
clicked wrong one = +10 intended for the OMFG PULL OVER NOW light :)
One does not drive with an overtemperature light on. Check engine light, OK, Overheat indicator absolutely not. If the wife truly checked the manual she would have seen that (http://www.motoringfile.com/files/2003MINICooperCooperS.pdf).
The renter is always responsible for his property. How can the rental company control what property the renter puts in the car. Was he carrying his Picasso that day? It is up to each of use to have insurance coverage on those things we value.
I think Zipcar's inital offer was more than generous. In fact I am surprised that they didn't bill him for loss of use as he continued to drive an overheated vehicle.
Zipcar did more because of the possibility of negative publicity. The OP did not have to pay for the loss to which his operation of the vehicle in an unsafe condition caused. However we all have to share his loss in increased rates at Zipcar or the insurer Zipcar uses to cover these losses.
It is instances like this that Consumerist actually does a disservice to all consumers to benefit a single consumer
Just wanted to clarify, it's not good to drive while the check engine light is flashing. That means, \"your catalytic converters are being destroyed.\"
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-120832-100x100.png\")
Zipcar owes him nada. Pulling over the second your temperature alarm goes on is basic driver's ed.
Zipcar needs to replace the items lost due to horrible maintenance issues. They pulled over just after the troubles started. My car lost most of it's coolant once and created an impressive steam cloud, which I got off the main road to a side feeder and had to leave the car sit for over an hour before anything could be done. I'm guessing that the fuel rail had a slight leak that lit up when the engine block reached several hundred degrees.
This is one reason to never buy a car that was used as a rental car. The drivers don't care about the cars so they abuse them.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-376262-100x100.png\")
Also? BMW should probably be concerned as to why their car caught fire. But doesn't EVERYONE just drive rental cars into the ground?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-944482-100x100.png\")
That third picture looks like the car did a fireworks display. A little early for New Year's!
Anyhow... great to hear that Zipcar compensated the family for everything they lost in the car fire and the upgrade for their next car.
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Cute but deadly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kKbivBkJoM
This one went up after the hazard lights started flashing.
Fires seem pretty common in the Mini based on my five minutes of searching.
They are very lucky to be alive, but should have learned a harsh lesson. When you realise that your car is on fire, you shouldn't get ANY belongings out. You can't possibly have anything in that car more valuable than you and your wife's lives and safety. Don't be a moron. If you know the car is on fire, get the hell away NOW and don't stop for anything. After doing something so stupid they're even more lucky to be safe and sound.
Don't you usually pay for insurance to cover this type of thing when you rent a car?
Funny story. I once drove someone's car home for him as a favor (100 miles or so). He was aware that a radiator hose was bad, but did not change it or tell me. The hose blew on the interstate and before I could stop in traffic the engine set up. Lots of smoke and steam but no fire. He still blames me for not stopping sooner. For want of a nail...
As a firefighter, I have to say it - HOly CRAP that's a blazin' car fire. Geez. I've been out on car fires before, but I haven't seen one to that extent that wasn't deliberately set. Wow.
\"From the time the warning light came on to when the car was engulfed in flames was about 10 minutes\"
If this statement is accurate, this says a lot about the quality of the Mini Cooper. The thing is completely destroyed.
Oh yeah, thank god you weren't in the car when it caught fire, cuz as soon as a car catches fire the doors automatically lock and you are trapped inside! Give me a break. If it were to catch fire, you simply stop and open your door......
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-406173-100x100.png\")
Wow. Stuff like that just doesn't happen all of a sudden. Something had to have been wrong with the car for a long time before it just got to the point where it would blow up. It seems that Zipcar let a ton of maintenance issues go, and they're lucky that John and his wife were able to get out of the car before they were seriously injured. They definitely owe John a refund and they should cover the cost of the damaged items.
yes you are right, something was wrong with the car that is why it blow up. John has to get his cost of the damaged items, otherwise he should file a case against them.
Thank you.
Atlanta Chapter 7 Bankruptcy
It's more likely a manufacturer issue. Google \"Mini Cooper Fire\" and you'll get a number of results from people with car fires days or weeks after regular maintenance.
Zipcars at my school definitely don't undergo regular maintenance. They are sooo cruddy and whatnot. I am not surprised that this happened.
OP should file a claim with homeowners/renters insurance. Items in a car not permanently attached are never covered by auto insurance.
No, things like this can, and do, happen in seconds. It doesn't neccessarily mean a lack of maintenance.
I'm sure threatening a law suit for negligence would speed things along. It seems like they would have a pretty solid case, if they can figure out what caused the fire in the first place. Like you said though, stuff like that just doesn't happen all of the sudden.