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The OP can have my iPhone next week when I get my new Nexus phone.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-498940-100x100.png\")
Hey speaking of which, are you getting one (a Nexus) b/c you're in the biz or just waiting to hear about the official process? I know some pricing details leaked out yesterday but still waiting to hear about how invites / ordering the unlocked version is going to work.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-665956-100x100.png\")
The Nexus looks really cool. I'm definitely a Google phone fan. I hope you like it.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-280864-100x100.png\")
It surprises me the cops were so helpful. When this happened to me they just said, \"You're fucked. What do you want US to do?\"
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-176865-100x100.png\")
Can’t AT&T be charged with aiding and abetting a criminal?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-425645-100x100.png\")
No, because with out a police report, there's nothing to say that a criminal act was committed. The OP, for whatever reason, is really resisting the filing of a police report, which makes me wonder a bit, because if she does that, AT&T and/or Apple will probably be able to help her. They can't act on just any random person saying, \"Oh, such-and-such is stolen,\" because items like this end up in back-and-forth ownership disputes all the time. Someone sells someone a phone, regrets it and then reports it stolen. Some kid gives his iPod to another kid, parents find out, kid claims the other kid stole it. It happens constantly, so to protect themselves, most companies have a policy like this, where you need to bring in a police report. At the store where I worked, once we saw the report, the Genius Bar guys would make a notation of theft and attach it to the serial number of the computer; if it was brought in for service after that, it could be held and returned to the rightful owner. But if there's no report and Apple tried that, they could be sued for theft.
Nah, the government tried to charge AT&T being criminal in the 80s all it did was lead to the break up and formation of many smaller companies to steal from us, rather then just one big one :)
they did say that the number that is now registered on the phone is no longer an AT&T number...what could they do?
Not honour the warranty. If software companies can deny support for pirated products, then why can’t a service provider (either AT&T or Apple) deny the warranty for a stolen product?
Actually that is the typical response from Apple - if the phone isn't registered with an approved carrier, it has no warranty.
Class action lawsuit? There might not be any real grounds but the official notification they are being sued might get some attention to it, but the time frame might be a little tight.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1523389-100x100.png\")
A class action lawsuit? What is the group of people that would bring this? People whose iPhones were stolen, then serviced by Apple and returned to the thief? I don't think that will be a very big class...
My mistake, I was thinking small claims, but for some reason typed class action
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-930037-100x100.png\")
Filing a small claims suit without a good faith basis (no real grounds) can end up getting you sanctioned by the court.
Can't she just call Apple and say, \"I want the new unit shipped to my office address instead of the originating address?\"
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-215178-100x100.png\")
This is precisely what I would have done. I've done this for legitimate reasons several times so I don't see why it wouldn't have worked here.
This is probably the best idea I have seen so far.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1301600-100x100.png\")
My thoughts exactly. Or maybe she could \"confirm\" the thief's shipping address and have the police wait out front for the item to be delivered ( a tracking number would be extremely helpful) and then grab the phone and the thief at the same time.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-453211-100x100.png\")
You can't just take the phone off the supposed thief's doorstep when it's delivered. Even with the police there, it's the thief's phone until proven otherwise...and there's nothing the cops can do but ask him to give it back.
I was going to write something about her rights as a prior possessor, etc. and that even if he wanted to press charges or sue her for stealing it, he has to prove the phone is his and that his rights in it are superior to hers. However, more thinking complicated that argument. The phone being sent to the \"thief\" is a new phone, not the one that he stole from the OP. Thus, the OP doesn't really have any provable rights in this new phone, as it has a different serial number. The thief basically traded her phone for a new one. I don't have the energy to really think that out, but I suspect it really would make it difficult for the OP to actually get possession of the new phone. Getting money, on the other hand, would be a different story.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-542520-100x100.png\")
Apple - Pretentious even with your stolen property.
There is no 'stolen property' without a police report. Why couldn't the OP just do that?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-4676-100x100.png\")
They need to step it up and contact someone higher up in customer service and try and get more police involvement. I hope things work out becasue this seems ridiculous that they know it's stolen but wont help.
http://consumerist.com/2006/10/get-applecare-executive-customer-service.html
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1226070-100x100.png\")
EECB.
I think the executive carpet bomb tactic is over-used but this might be a situation where one is needed. Anyone at a decision-making level would cooperate with the police in order to catch the criminal and return the phone. Also get the NYPost or Daily News involved, a little publicity might help.
Apple cooperates with police investigation. This wasn't an investigation - no police report.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1425332-100x100.png\")
Any way to convince them to return the iPhone to the mailing/billing address they have on file with the account? That would effectively give it back to her.
Get off your butt and file a police report. Seriously, I read this as \" I couldn't be bothered to file a police report and now I'm mad because they need a police report to return my stolen property.\"
I see a whole paragraph of excuses why a police report was such a bloody inconvenience yet you wont take responsibility for the fact that this report was the one thing you needed to likely get your equipment back.
Look at this from Apple's perspective. You could have sold someone your iPhone and now you're trying to steal it from them. You're police report is some assurance that a crime has taken place and you aren't just pulling a fast one.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-174830-100x100.png\")
Exactly! I was reading too quick and didn't notice that you were the only other person to make this connection. I think it's hard to blame Apple for playing a game of CYA.
xctl. Sh ws t lz t fl plc rprt nd s nw sffrng th cnsqncs. Hd sh fld n, sh lkl wld hv gttn t bck. wrkd fr lrg cnsmr lctrncs mnfctrr fr whl nd w wld gldl rtrn stln prdcts tht fnd thr w bck t s s lng s th rgnl wnr prvdd s wth plc rprt. N plc rprt, n dc. Sh md cnscs chc NT t fl plc rprt, nd nw hs t p th prc fr th cpl f hrs sh svd b nt dng s.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-537475-100x100.png\")
My iPhone is a refurb, and the first time I called AT&T to talk to them about something, they brought up someone else's name. The rep mistakenly rattled off the previous owner's name and address, then saw under it that it had changed hands. The serial number stays the same, but the owners might change.
I don't have enough knowledge of the police's policies on stolen property to know whether the police report would have convinced AT&T or Apple enough. The police apparently told her that even with a report, it was still up to the other companies, but I don't know enough about the policies of either company to know what they would have done if she definitely had a report.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-159929-100x100.png\")
It's pretty understandable why they would want a police report and not just act on someone's say-so, too. Otherwise people could commit all kinds of fraud - sell their iphone, then tell apple it was stolen and try to get it back, ect.
If she has the address it's being shipped to, can't the police go there and ask some probing questions?
The thing is, the OP says that both Apple and AT&T have confirmed that she's the owner of the phone. The only thing i can think of is that maybe they can't find out for sure that she isn't trying to claim her phone was stolen, get a replacement cell phone, and sell it.
They confirmed she was the owner of record, they have no clue what happened to the phone after the OP bought it.
This is no different then when a Credit Card company asks you to complete an Affidavit of Forgery and submit a police report when a credit card is stolen. They know that people are less likely to make false claims if they have to file a police report (because filing a false police report is a crime).
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-267279-100x100.png\")
This part of the story really bothered me too. I know it's the holidays but you can't be arsed to spend an hour of time to get a $600 piece of equipment back?
My car got broken in to and a few items were stolen. I filed a police report and never heard anything ever again. (Didn't file a claim with insurance either.) Filing police reports is a waste of time for small crimes--and this is a small crime. On the other hand, around here we can do this all over the phone and it is pretty easy.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-376077-100x100.png\")
But if the cops catch a guy with a pantload of stolen property they can only give back the items that are reported stolen. If you don't report it, and they catch someone with your junk, you'll never see it. Sure, they might not catch them, ever, but if it's important to you then why not do it?
Another reason to file a police report is to have proof of when the phone left your possession. If the phone is later used for drug dealing you could be the registered owner when the police investigate. Even if the phone was assigned a new account, you might still be \"person of interest\" because the phone was transferred from you to the suspect; with a police report, there is no longer a reason for the investigators to think you might be connected with the suspect.
Even if it is unlikely, why take the chance?
The reason I thought of this is because of an item stolen from us:
Many years ago we had an old camper trailer (gutted and used as a storage shed) stolen. The police said that the aluminum top was probably already sold for scrap and the trailer frame didn't have a serial number. We were not going to bother filing a police report until we talked to the Department of Motor Vehicles. They suggested that we file the report so that the registration could be marked \"stolen.\" If we didn't and the trailer was found in the woods somewhere being used for making drugs we would be the owner of record. [If we lied and said it was scrapped, we would be in even more trouble.]
Except in this case, it's not, because Apple and AT&T have both told her that they may be able to do something more if she files a report. And for reasons I don't understand, she's still resisting it. I don't understand the logic there at all- if your $600 phone is stolen, file a report, even if you don't think it'll do anything. It may never come to anything, but it could help you get your stuff back (and then there's a paper trail in the event that something like the OP comes up).
I can say as a former Apple employee that if someone filed a police report and brought a copy in to show us, we could then flag the serial number of whatever was stolen and return it to them if it was brought to the Genius Bar (any Genius Bar- this is a national database). How often it returned in equipment being recovered, I don't know, but it's certainly better than doing nothing and having no chance of getting your stuff back. I'm not trying to be nasty to the OP, but I agree with Dutchess. Get down to the police station and file a report, and maybe it's not too late to have the phone recovered. Apple can't legally do anything for you until they have that piece of paper- it opens them up to way too much liability.
Seriously, if I could manage to file a report in Prague when my wallet was stolen, in a foreign city and in a foreign language that I don't even speak, I think the OP can take the time to file her report if she really wants to get that phone back.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-812791-100x100.png\")
It wouldn't have been an hour of time. She said the precinct is an hour away. That's two hours of travel time plus the actual time spent actually getting the report filed. I have no idea how long that would take, but I'm guessing at least an hour. The only reason she even has a chance of getting the phone back is because the thief (or whomever the thief subsequently sold the phone to) decided to try to get it repaired. Had that not happened, there would be pretty much zero chance of the police being able to do anything.
Aside from that, the police are currently involved anyway, and they've spoken to Apple and Apple has still said they won't return the phone to her.
Explain to me how the local precinct is two hours away -- when she's in NYC?
Also, I have had to file police reports for stolen goods before -- spending hours to do so doesn't seem likely. Cops came to our door, we gave them the info, a few hours later the cops drove back and dropped off the paperwork. (I live in Philadelphia, so this wasn't a case of a small-town cop with nothing better to do.)
An hour there, an hour back. Easily possible. The subway isn't a teleportation device.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1523889-100x100.png\")
Some parts of the city, it really could be two hours each way. I stayed with friends in Queens and commuted to Manhattan when I interned there. Talk about one long (hour and a half) train ride (not including transfer stops). ugh.
The police are involved in what appears to be an informal role, as she pretty much ended any formal role when she declined to file a police report.
What's to stop her from filing a report now? How long can one wait after they are robbed to file a report?
I would kindly remind Apple that knowingly receiving property is a crime. Also since this phone is presumably being sent across state lines, there's a federal felony in addition to the multiple state felonies. I hope Apple has some good criminal defense attorneys on staff.
There's no evidence the phone is stolen other than her word.
That's the point of a police report... so you have it documented. That's the \"knowingly\" part.
LOL Wow... 'receiving property is a crime'? Stolen property, yes. Felony, hardly. The police report tips the situation into the OP's favor because filing a false police report is a crime and then Apple has official police involvement with a paper trail. She needs to file a police report and quickly. Apple gets these things turned around quickly.
And careful with those legal terms. They can bite you if you don't know how to use them. :)
They could retain people like you, with absolutely no working knowledge of the law, on their legal staff and still beat charges like those without any effort whatsoever. Aside from the OP saying it's her phone, and having access to a random email account, it appears that there is no proof whatsoever that she owns the phone. Plus, she's too damn lazy to file a police report. That just screams \"I don't even care about getting \"my\" property back, and there's a good chance I'm trying to defraud Apple.\"
Th nl \"vdnc\" ppl hs tht ths s stln prprt s th P's wrd. f th hd plc rprt shwng tht ths phn ws rprtd stln, ntng th srl nmbr, tc. tht wld b dffrnt str. Th P ws t lz t fl rprt.
Send an email to sjobs@apple.com
Wait 1 day
Problem resolved
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-552772-100x100.png\")
The police spent an hour on the phone? Most police wouldn't even want to spend 10 minutes doing this, after all it's just a phone and they have much better things to do with their life. However, I think this story should be tagged with \"above & beyond\" for the service from the NYPD.
How true.
Yeah, let's aim for the lowest common denominator, and especially in our police dept's, great idea!
not lowest common denominator but rather there is a limited amount of police resource.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-212669-100x100.png\")
Always, Always, Always file a police report, I don't care how inconvient it is for you. If you really want your stuff back, you need to file a police report. That being said, maybe she can contact Steve Jobs, his email always seems to get things fixed and I am sure he can get it done.
I have to agree with you. I work in insurance, and if you ever have anything stolen and wish to file a claim for it, you need a police report. Take the hour or so out of your day to file it.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1523541-100x100.png\")
not sure if either of you have ever been a student but she stated she had a final the next day and the precinct was over an hour away. well once you get to the freaking precinct you have to wait in line for maybe two hours if you are lucky. that could be time spent studying for those finals. Granted once her finals were over she should have filed but that day I can see why she did not.
I was a college student several times over and I still took the time to file a police report.
I seriously doubt they were going to make her spend hours looking through mug shot books (I would assume they're online now anyways). They likely would have taken her report, given her the case number and that was it.
Yes, the precinct was an hour away, but she probably could have called on the phone to do this. Virtually every time I've had to file a police report I've been able to do it over the phone.
I stand by my original observation, all I hear is a lot of excuses.
I was a college student, and you still file a police report! Even if you go the next day, you have to file a police report so if something turns up you can get it back. Its hard to feel sorry for her if she can't do somehting that simple. If she was worried about her final, she should have called the professor and asked for another date, and if they wouldn't budge then take the final and go the next day. A few hours out of your day isn't going to kill you especially if you aren't studying last minute.
I would have talked to the professor about letting me take the final at another time, even if it was on the same day, just later. If I told some of my professors, \"I was robbed,\" I know at least two of them would have let me take my finals at a different time, or with a different section of the class, especially if they knew that I had to travel an hour to report it.
If that didn't work, and the teacher wouldn't budge, then you take your final and go to the police station. But I find that most teachers have a little heart and will make allowances and not jump to suspicion, especially if you've been attentive, have had good grades, good attendance, and have proven to make an effort.
Without a police report, how does apple/at&t know she didn't sell the phone to someone else and is now trying to get it back? Sorry to say, but in this case it's her word against theirs. But I agree, it definitely sucks.
But how do the police know it's stolen other than her word... except for the information received from Apple/AT&T which obviously Apple already has.
The police report becomes an outside official paper trail that justifies Apple's actions that is backed up by force of law, since filing a false police report is a crime. That record combined with the record of owner they have on file tips the scale in the OP's favor. File the police report.
All that shows is that she is/was the owner of record. That's it. She could have sold the phone to someone else, regretted it and now be attempting to steal it back. Maybe she gave it to someone and then wished she hadn't. They have no way of knowing what happened, and without an official statement that has actual legal bearing, they can't just take a piece of property away from one person claiming ownership in order to give it to another claiming the same thing.
If we go down that road, the next post on Consumerist will be from someone who bought a refurbished phone that still had the previous owners' information attached, brought it in for a repair and had it confiscated because it was \"stolen.\" Do you really feel like leaving it up to your average Apple store or AT&T store employee to make the call as to whether something was stolen or not? I ask this as a former Apple employee myself, incidentally.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-151751-100x100.png\")
How about small claims? Have your claim served on an Apple store. Claim for an iPhone or the amount of cash it would take to buy a new one. Show the judge all the evidence you have and how the police even tried to help you, but you couldn't get Apple to give up your phone even though it is clearly yours. It'll take a little of your time, but it should be pretty much a slam dunk.
I agree with the folks who are suggesting charging Apple with a crime, but the DA is NOT going to want to bother haranguing Apple and their lawyers when he can get easier convictions off someone else (and probably has bigger fish to fry).
Try the Steve Jobs route first. If that doesn't work, then:
1) File the damn police report. Just get it over with.
2) File a Civil Suit against apple in Small Claims court for $600. You're out the money to buy a new phone, and they have your property and won't return it. Chances are once you have them served, they'll send you a check for $500 to dispose of the case. If they don't, then when you go to Court, and they don't show after being served - immediately ask for a Default Judgment. If granted by the Court, take it and file it with the Clerk - whatever you have to do. Then contact Apple's legal dept. Tell them they owe you:
* The amount granted by the Court
* Court Costs/fees
* Filing fees
* Process Service fees
* Transportation costs/fees for your time to take the bus, train, drive, park, whatever...
* Attorney's Fees (if you represent yourself Pro Se - you can claim this - about $75/hr is a nice number that most Judges will allow - but you've gotta ask for it).
* Postage
* Filing fees for the Judgment
* Interest at whatever the legal limit is (18% a YEAR - so divide by 12 and do the math).
3) Not sure what the limit for a Felony theft is in your State, but $600 sounds about right. Find out if it's a Felony. If it is, then go back to the Police - talk with the nice officer. Tell him that you want them to file aiding and abetting Felony theft charges against Apple. Have them name the Customer Service Representative, Supervisor, anyone they talk to.
4) Cancel the AppleCare - get a refund send to YOU.
Or she could just file the damn police report, already.
Actually, rereading the post, I don't understand why she didn't file one after going down to the precinct and having that officer talk to AT&T on the phone.
If I had to guess - I'd go with the Student in New York bit. Having finals drains the brain. Living in NY one gets resigned to something being gone forever if stolen on the subway. And going to the cop shop is a whole experience in spending money on transportation and time. Why do it if the thing's gone?
So once it turned up, she figured why not give them a call. When that didn't work, the cops called. When that didn't work, I'd have filed the damn police report and told them to get on with returning it to me...
Why do it if the thing's gone? Well, when I had a wallet stolen in Prague, which I knew full well I'd never get back, I went to a police station and filed a report (which can take a while when you're having to dictate to a cop who's not a native English speaker so it can maybe get translated into Czech for the report) so that if it did turn up, I might see it again, so that the incident would be complied in any crime statistics for that year in case it was part of an upward trend, because at least I could feel like I did something productive instead of just shrugging and saying, \"Well, that's gone,\" and, most importantly, so that if something happened with my credit or debit cards, I'd have a paper trail in the event that I needed to claim fraud. Had any of my other property been stolen, I would have filed the report so that if it was possible to claim it under homeowners' insurance, I'd have a paper trail for that. I was a student at the time, too, incidentally, so I don't really buy the, \"She was studying hard, she's brain dead,\" angle.
It's never fun to have something stolen, but seriously, if you're robbed, file the stupid police report. No company is just going to send an expensive piece of electronics to a different address than the one from which it originated based on someone calling and saying, \"Oh, yeah, it's stolen.\" Even having the police call- so what? Apple has no way of knowing whether that's actually a cop on the phone. And I for one wouldn't want them just randomly deciding that certain stuff sent in is stolen and returning it to other people; it would present all kinds of opportunities for abuse and fraud. If they start doing that, next we have a rash of articles on the Consumerist from people whose refurbished and/or eBay purchased phones were confiscated when brought in for repairs because they were still registered as belonging to someone else. A recipe for disaster is what it would be.
Failing to file a police report was her mistake here, especially since she ended up going to the precinct, anyway. Now, I think it's ridiculous that in NYC, you can't file a report over the phone, but that's probably for another conversation. If she still can, she should go, file the police report and then see if she can get the phone back. Otherwise, unfortunately, I'd say this has to be chalked up to a lesson learned. Always file the police report, even if it's a pain, because it's a paper trail in case you need one later.
I don't know about small claims law in NY, but I was under the impression that small claims generally doesn't allow you to recover incidental expenses like filing fees, only the amount of your suit. Still, 600 bucks is better than zip.
This is wrong for so many reasons. You generally can't collect attorney's fees, especially \"attorney's fees\" that represent fees you are \"paying\" yourself as a non-attorney, nor can you collect \"transportation\" expenses paid to get yourself to the courthouse.
Not true. At least in Illinois. All you have to do is put the claimed amounts into the filing. Then when their lawyer (if one shows) doth protest about it - you simply say to the Judge \"Your Honor, I wouldn't have had to incur any of these costs if they hadn't acted in such an unconscionable manner.\"
As for claiming attorney's fees if you represent yourself Pro Se - YES you can get them. If you are acting as your own attorney, you deserve to paid as an attorney for representing yourself. Once again, you had to take time out of your day to plan, file, and litigate the case - so you damn well do deserve compensation. I work as a consultant and get paid $225/hr. I initially asked for that rate in my claim - the Judge countered that I might not have been working billable hours and would need to see my historical billing sheets if I wanted to claim I typically worked the full week... Rather than fooling with that, I countered with \"How about $75/hr then - that's what a 3rd year law student or new atty would make\" - the Judge said yes. I've always gotten it.
For someone taking time off work who works a 9-5 job - take your annual salary, divide by 2000 (typically 2000 working hrs in a year) and that's your hourly to claim. But CLAIM something.
As for the other costs, I've had EVERY Judge I ever asked for these costs grant them to me. Their failure to do their job cost you money and time and you need to be made whole.
Depending on her policy, her renters/homeowners insurance may cover a stolen/lost cell phone. Of course, they'll require a police report.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1523987-100x100.png\")
So if I understand this correctly, since there is no police report, there is no way to prove that this phone was stolen, rather than sold on Craigslist or ebay or something along those lines?
I'm OK with that, really. If I buy something on ebay and need warranty service, I would NOT be happy to have the seller find a way to have the replacement shipped to THEM rather than me.
Next time something of mine is stolen, I guess I'm going to have to waste the time to file a report tho *sigh*
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-565952-100x100.png\")
It's called transfer of ownership. Apple will gladly do it for you if you the person who originally bought it asks for it to be transferred to someone else. And even with the police report good luck getting it back. And if you find a lost phone, never return it to the Apple store, go to AT&T or the police because they won't take the time to figure out whose it is.
Well, that's not entirely true. We had people bring in lost and found phones a few times when I worked at Apple, and while we wouldn't take them from whoever found them if we couldn't identify an owner (I think corporate policy was that we couldn't act as an agent for returning stuff), if we could, we'd try and call someone in the phone book, let them know that the phone had been found, get the owner's name and contact information, then get a hold of them and see if they could come and pick up the phone. With their permission, we could sometimes hold the phone for them to pick up. Otherwise, no. This could have changed since I worked there, but we weren't allowed to take a random phone from someone who had found it, only help them track down the owner so that it could be returned.
Sh's tlkng t th wrng ppl. Sh nds t fnd t wht lgl frm rprsnts ppl n Nw Yrk Stt nd tlk t thm. Rcvng stln prprt s crm. f th plc nfrmd ppl, vn f t ws brn dd prtr, th hv lgl blgtn. Nw tht sh's fnll gttn ff hr ss nd fld plc rprt, fx t nd smthng wth th srl nmbr t th lw frm. Th ndrstnd th lw. Lvl tch spprt dsn't.
As I said above, without a police report, Apple doesn't \"know\" that this is stolen property. They have the word of a person on the phone who is claiming to be a cop, but who cannot supply any documentation to support the claim that the phone is stolen because the OP was too lazy to file a report. Without a police report, Apple doesn't have any real evidence that this phone really was stolen.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-158340-100x100.png\")
I agree with you. Apple is in the clear. OP has no basis for her claim without a police report.
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\"The whole situation is just illogical to me.\"
...people expecting any kind of logic from Apple is...illogical.
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If the number that the phone is currently using isn't AT&T when it gets sent in, they aren't going to replace it anyway. At least in store, the minute we saw anything other than that little AT&T in the upper left hand corner, we won't even look at the phone. We're not going to try and fix a software issue that you're having because you loaded software onto the phone that we don't support.
(don't work there anymore, but I used to)
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She did not file a police report when it was stolen so the Police really can't do much. Even small items need to have police reports attached to them since they can be tracked via serial number. You always need evidence. Apple is not in the wrong here.
I'm really disappointed with Apple in this regard. I found an ipod outside my office. There's an Apple store right down the street so I took it in and said \"I found this and despite the stunningly bad music selections would like to get it back to the owner...is there any way you can plug it in and pair the serial # with the owner in order to return it?\"
The answer was yes we *can* but no we *won't*. It'd be so easy for them to do. And when it comes to stolen equipment, a couple of people in a back office somewhere could be devoted to matching IP addresses to ISPs to names after receiving a police report. Of course, some of those new IPs would belong to people who got a \"gift\" and didn't know they were receiving stolen property, but at least Apple wouldn't be the bottleneck.
Even better, Apple could implement a kill switch that it could flip after receiving a report that would permanently disable the device, thus taking away the incentive to steal them in the first place.
\"Even better, Apple could implement a kill switch that it could flip after receiving a report that would permanently disable the device, thus taking away the incentive to steal them in the first place.\"
That would be a complete nightmare. How many posts would we read here on Consumerist from people whose iPods or iPhones were accidentally/wrongly killed off because they were sold second hand by someone who then tried to get them back, sold on eBay by an unscrupulous person, wrongly reported stolen, et cetera. I can see it now, and it's not pretty.
Of course, they might be able to do something like that in cases of theft... if the victim provided a police report to demonstrate that the item was actually stolen. But that brings us right back to where we are now: they can try and help you out, but you need to have made the theft \"official\" by filing a report.
At least for the iPhone, they do. It's part of MobileMe
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Only problem with MobileMe is if you don't have the $100 (oops, pardon me, $99) a year for the fee, you can't use the wipe feature or the locate the phone feature. I have 2 iPhones and with the $60 in data plans for them, I can't afford another $200 a year for MobileMe services.
It might be easy for them to do, and it might be a *nice* thing for them to do, but why should Apple hire extra people just to track down stolen stuff? Apple doesn't really have any obligation to help people find their stolen stuff, and it gets expensive to start hiring people solely for that purpose.
Well because it's a great fairly low cost marketing method. At the very least you include a catalog of new items with the returned item. Or the person comes back to your store and you give them the item, and offer them a small gift certificate - for a free song or two or five on iTunes...
You build loyalty and then those people you build loyalty with go to their friends and say \"Hey, these guys are stand up... you should totally buy their XYZZY\"...
Why should they have a Genius Bar or have free classes or provide tech support for free in their stores either? No obligation, just plain old customer service really. It would be the least expensive of their customer service add-ons they do. How many of these get stolen each year + it only takes a few minutes to pull an IP from their logs and send a request to an ISP for an ID = literally just a couple of people in the \"Stolen i-whatever Department\".
And they don't even have to do it for free. If I were in that position, I'd be willing to throw a nominal fee at completing the investigation circle. Which is what I suppose MobileMe is aiming at to some extent for $99 a year, but that's more about wiping your info or pinging your phone's location, not catching the scumbag who mugged you on the 6 heading up Lexington.
Who said anything about hiring additional people to do that?
Doing this function may require Apple to spring a bit of cash to train everyone on the floor to do it, but they wouldn't have to hire anyone on. And hey, training would be cheaper to boot, so...yeah.
I think I'm seeing what everyone is saying about you. You really do seem to be in love with corporations. @_@
That was my experience in trying to return the ipod. The guy on the floor (one of the dozen or so btw) said, from a tech perspective, that he could pair the serial # with the owner's contact info in two seconds, but that he couldn't give it to me to return in the interest of privacy (which I can totally respect) nor would Apple allow him to send an email or make a phone call (thus apparently relieving Apple of the huge financial burden of said email or phone call).
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From Golddog's comment:
\"...a couple of people in a back office somewhere could be devoted to matching IP addresses to ISPs to names after receiving a police report. \"
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So I head to the police precinct where an officer calls the rep I spoke to last
OK, so at this point the OP does in fact go to the police station. Did she file the report then or was it too late or did Apple still not care?
Wrong precinct, I suspect - she mentioned that the actual precinct was an hour away.
Yes, that's my question too.
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I want to point out that \"Jailbreaking\" your phone has nothing to do with being a criminal. For a lot of people (like me) we have jailbroken them in order to apply cosmetic changes and use Cydia apps.
t sms hr nl spprtng rgmnt s tht sh hs ccss t th ml ddrss ssctd wth th phn. Gv n cmptr ltrt prsn ngh tm, nd th cn ls gn ccss t tht ml ccnt. Pls, sh pnl dmts tht sh's fr t lz t b bthrd wth thngs lk flng plc rprt. f sh cn't tk th mst bsc f stps, nd wth sch nn-crng tttd, wht pssbl chnc wld sh hv n crt?
I would find out where the Apple repair center is, then call the police in that jurisdiction and ask them to charge both Apple and the customer service representative you spoke to with knowingly receiving stolen property worth more than $400, a felony nearly everywhere. This should get their attention.
First off, the police don't charge people with crimes, prosecutors do. Second, if you asked for this, you would get laughed at or ignored.
Really? So all those episodes of Cops where they say \"Do you know what you're being charged with?\" to criminals are just imaginary? Or they're doing it wrong? I don't get it.
Semantics. Police can arrest people if they suspect a crime was committed, but police do not make charging decisions, unless it's a citation like a speeding or parking ticket.
Further, relying on a TV show like \"Cops\" for legal knowledge isn't a very good idea. It's like watching \"Wings\" in order to learn how to fly.
I think what you're running into here is that without the police report there's no evidence that a crime has been committed. It's basically your word against the person who has your phone now. From Apple's point of view, you could be a scammy eBay seller who sees an opportunity to get a free phone.
File the police report, it's not that hard. Where I live, they'll send an officer to your house to take the report.
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A: Are they selling iPhones in NYC?
B: Why buy anything with AT&T? If you have to pay full price for a new phone then just buy out of your contract and get a phone with another company...That's cheaper, right?
Got a receipt? Good. You kept the receipt for an expensive purchase. That's a good idea.
Now get off your butt and file a police report. Sorry it's an hour away and you think the chances are slim. This incident has proven to you that even though the chances of finding the phone are slim, they clearly do happen.
Should have filed a police report anyway. With a police report and a receipt, this shouldn't be too hard at all. The cops might even be able to catch the person receiving the stolen & repaired phone. Who knows, the person getting it might have bought it off craigslist or ebay.
Something to think of - if the OP bought the phone on a credit card, they may have purchase protection. Where she gets a new one if the old one is lost, damaged,or stolen. There's time limits on the deal though, and yep, she'll still need a police report.
But if she had the phone a relatively short period of time, it could be worth investigating...
Credit company is going to ask for a police report before they do anything about replacing something....puts the OP right back in the boat with a huge hole.
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This crook is very lucky. I know a few people who would not take this kinder and legal approach. Armed with an address and phone number bad things can happen. On that note I bet the person requesting service on the phone is not the theif but an innocent purcheser who unwittingly bought a stolen phone.
If you ever want compensation for a crime, ever, whether you find your property or not, you file a police report. When mugged for my iPod, Apple refunded my remaining Applecare, my credit card company refunded my purchase price (including interest), but I needed a police report to do anything. Of course I didn't have to go downtown, I went to the ER instead, but I'd trade getting knifed for an hour trip downtown. Seems a reasonable trade.
Um, she should have filed a police report. Sure, getting robbed was inconvenient enough to begin with, but reports help not only the victims, but can also help increase patrols or attention in a problem area.
Apple probably needs a police report to verify that the phone is stolen. Yes, a call from the cops should suffice, but I don't feel much sympathy for the snatching victim in this case.
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Really, the NYPD makes you spend time at a precinct looking at photos of suspects to file a police report so you can get Apple to NOT receive your stolen iPhone or at least replace your Stolen iPhone with a working iPhone (because the thief was retarded enough to file a warranty claim)? I had my vehicle broken into once, and I never set foot in the police station. The Officer that arrived looked over the vehicle, determined the method used to gain entry (screwdriver to the door lock). He then took pictures and collected a couple prints, asked me for a list of the items that were taken and a physical description and then gave me his card so I could give him any other information about the missing items (such as serial #s). On the backside of the card was a web address with the report # written down.
I mean we're just a bunch of ass-backwards rednecks here in Texas, but it appears we have at least adopted 21st century technology to make policework a little less of a chore for the public that needs them. I understand transit officers can't carry around an MDT with them, but SURELY they have some small computer access terminal somewhere in the subway stations where they can file an electronic report.
I'm no expert, but I reckon if you have a reasonably decent job in that part of the country spending all day at the police station would cost you more money than the replacement cost of the iphone.
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That sounds like nearly the *same* process I went through when my truck was broken into while living in the North side of Austin. I didn't get my stereo back but I did have a $0 deductible so I got a new one from Circuit City (where I bought the original) through arrangements with the insurance company (Allstate). However, I never got my radar detector back b/c it was not \"part\" of the car. Oh yeah, did I mention that this all happened on my birthday? Good time, I tell ya. Good times.
If Apple says they \"can't\" return the phone, then they are lying. They \"won't\" return it.
Now if you get a subpoena or other court order then you can compel them to return it.
So why did you not file a police report when you first contacted them?
Couldn't the police now arrest the people who robbed her? They know the address now and phone number.....
I'm sorry if someone has pointed this out already, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the phone now has a number that is not AT&T's number, it means the phone is already 'jailbroken', doesn't it? And doesn't that void any warranty?
It would then logically follow that they wouldn't replace it, right?
You're right, actually. If the number isn't attached to an AT&T account, Apple aren't going to do the repair. We had this happen a lot when I worked at one of the retail stores. People would come in with a phone that had issues, I'd take a look, see \"T-Mobile\" in the corner where the AT&T carrier logo would normally be and would have to tell them to take a hike, because jailbreaking voids the warranty.
In this case, it's possible that the phone's new owner just stuck their own AT&T sim card in the phone, but if they didn't already have an iPhone on their plan, or they're going to get hammered on data charges. Even if they don't, AT&T is going to slap an iPhone data plan on that contract immediately once they catch the iPhone's IMEI on their system. If they're not using an AT&T-based sim card in the phone, AT&T wouldn't be able to trace the phone at all, I don't think, and Apple's not going to replace it or fix it.
she never had it stolen, she sold it to a guy for 400$ on the train. came up with this whole scam. Shes the one that told the dude to go ahead and use the apple care to get a replacement as she would never get the money back.
Can she pull the kiosk trick described in earlier Consumerist stories, sue Apple in small claims and have them served at an Apple store where nobody will pay attention, then get a default judgement?
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First I will state that I presently work for a company that Apple uses for AppleCare, I have said this before regarding issues with Apple but in no way do I represent Apple's final answer in anything just stating the obvious.
As far as we are trained on this issue Apple is not responsible for the product that you purchase once it is yours its yours and we step back. We support the product for one year but that does not include theft or damaged product.
Anyways yes that sucks. As far as what I am told we can do is tell you to contact your insurance company(homeowners), or if you bought it with a credit card contact said credit card. I presently am Tier 2, which being the highest of non executive phone support that there is. We have no authority to send you a new iPhone or iPod unless you currently have the original in hand as we require the original to be sent in. You can try to get in touch with ER but I don't know what they would do for you. If Apple just sent new iPhones and iPod's out to every consumer they would not be in business.
I feel for your situation but in my position there would be nothing I could do, not that I wouldn't want to its just our hands are tied.
Sorry u got robbed. Sounds like a good time to switch carriers since AT&T has horrible service. It sounds pretty logical to me though.
If someone sells an iPhone on ebay/craigslist and then tries to get it back when they find out the new owner is trying to get a warranty replacement just by calling AT&T because their name was listed last.
If you got robbed you file a police report just like everyone else and it would have gone a lot smoother. You could have looked up your serial number and reported it stolen on the report and then at&t would have to give it back. But because you waited they will get the phone.
So just throwing another comment out there and playing devils' advocate...
Lets say you bought a car from somebody down the street, i.e. Joe, the car was $500 and you sign over the papers and its a done deal. You drive the car for awhile but one night it gets stolen.
Lets even say you see Mr. Thief driving down the road, now you know someone else has your car and is actively using it.
Do you go back to Joe who sold you the car to complain that the car you purchased was stolen? Do you contact the maker of the vehicle and tell them the car was stolen and they are responsible for getting it back to you?
Of course you don't. You contact the police and file a police report, and you contact your insurance company. In no way shape or form should this come back to Joe or the company who makes the car. Simple as that.
As far as the AppleCare warranty it is a one year warranty. NOT Insurance, you would not believe how many times I get calls where customer's say they have a warranty and we as a company should cover lost/stolen iPods/iPhones.
Gizmodo has an update - she finally did go down and get a police report.
As a Sprint subscriber, this is all fascinating to me...
Speaking from experience (I left my phone in a U-Haul then returned the U-Haul):
With Sprint you call customer service and tell them your phone was lost or stolen. They flag the phone's ESN or MEID, which prevents anyone from activating the phone. No police report required. It's basically a brick at that point, which makes it worthless from a re-use/re-sale perspective. Sprint will not allow the phone to be activated until and unless you report the phone found.
Charge Apple with knowingly receiving stolen property?
take it back yourself. grab a pipe and go to the address
The phone hasn't been reported as stolen - there is no police report. Apple will work with the police after a police report is filed. I understand its inconvenient but the OP really needs to file a police report to get assistance.
Since this never happened to me I have to wonder who is paying the bill? Did she cancel her service? If she tells Apple the phone is stolen then how would the thief change the billing address on the phone? If Apple does decide the phone really is stolen, do they remotely disable it so it never works again?
Anyone know?
Except without a police report, it's not known to be stolen property.
Imagine you legitimately purchase an iPhone from the original buyer. You then need to have it serviced through Apple, but the original owner/buyer tells Apple it's stolen and should be returned to them.
That or something along the lines of refusing to cooperate with an investigation. There's evidence on that phone.