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Lucky for these crooks this took place in IL and not PA or another concealed carry state. This interaction would have gone much differently if the robber(s) ended up getting someone who wasn't defenseless.
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The whole argument is specious, simply having a gun may have stopped a robbery or escalated it. Pretending to know what \"could\" have happened is just fantasy
States with looser gun laws tend to have higher gun violence, but it's debatable if one caused the other. I come from a state with fairly liberal gun laws (RI), but when I've bought stuff from Craigslist I never showed up expecting to get robbed, and thus never packing.
It's a heckuva stretch to say this wouldn't have happened in your state, or that you could never fall victim to a scam.
@Tremblor: I would definitely never say this wouldn't happen in my state and I also would never say it was impossible that I could fall victim to a scam. My point was two fold:
1. I would have been carrying. I feel better that I would have some means of defense, rather than no means of defense.
2. If one of the victims of these scams had been carrying, that situation may have gone much differently.
Side note: For me, if I was walking around with enough cash to buy a TV or something, I would most definitely be carrying.
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@Toof_75_75: Regardless of what side of the line in this debate you are on, there are some absolute truths here:
1. If someone with a gun wants your money, property, or wants to harm you, and you have no means of defending yourself, you are at your mercy.
2. The police are never there instantly. Nationwide, 4 minutes is considered an OUTSTANDING response time, and is unlikely.
3. When you outlaw firearms, only outlaws will have firearms.
The government simply cannot protect everyone. The vast majority of police work is reactive, meaning after the fact. They will take a report, maybe collect some evidence, and then (hopefully) attempt to catch the perpetrator(s) so they can't do it again. But that doesn't change the fact that they did it at least once, to you.
Will a gun provide magical faery protection? No, of course not, but it does provide some protection, and the option of using it is better than not having the option.
And if you just want alarmist sensational Glenn Beck tripe, here you go: \"Why are you so unwilling to defend your family? Don't you love your family?\"
@Tremblor: It is NOT true that states with looser gun laws tend to have higher gun violence. The opposite is true.
See how easy it is just write things on the internet without citing a source to back them up?
Maybe both of you should cite some sources. Right now you're both making claims, but neither has bothered to back it up with any research.
@Toof_75_75: Give it up Toof. What right do you have to defend yourself? Just accept the fearmongering and give in, guns are bad, people who like guns are bad. Stop being bad!
Links for the rest of you:
@InThrees: Please, don't baffle them with the truth, they prefer to remain ignorant and \"feel\" safe.
@lannister80: Yeah, just so you don't have to make any misplaced assumptions as to where I stand.
@gjones77: Same here. I'm not saying necessarily that if the victim was armed then they'd have killed the robbers. I'm simply saying at least they'd have had a means to defend themselves and their property.
@halcyondays: Ditto.
@Toof_75_75: \"Yeah, just so you don't have to make any misplaced assumptions as to where I stand.\"
You like banning guns and putting your country on the road to financial ruin? (Reagan was all about gun control and is the reason you can not buy a new automatic rifle due to an executive order signed in 1986. He campaigned for the Brady Bills and he was governor of California when that state banned public carry of weapons, in 1967.)
@Toof_75_75: You won't hear me argue against that Took, I have a license to carry concealed in my home state.
@gjones77: As you could likely guess, I too have my license to carry concealed. I also have the mild benefit of living in an open carry state; which I would take advantage of if I felt like dealing with constantly being bothered by the police.
@Toof_75_75: Don't I wish, it isn't illegal in my state, but if you do so you'll get arrested and lose your license.
It's not that I want to run around cowboy style (though it would be fun), it's that if it does become exposed, and one of the more spineless of our society screech and call the police, I can possibly be charged with brandishment.
@gjones77: Suggest you consult your particular state's subforum at [opencarry.org] Some very useful information there, including others who are involved in making legal open carry actually legal, not just in name only.
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@Toof_75_75: This very thing happened a couple nights ago here in Nashville. Two thugs followed a guy parking his car in an apartment complex and attempted to rob him- one with a gun. Funny that he had just purchased a handgun. He shoots at them, they shoot back then run. Somehow no one is hit.
Cops get the thugs and, wonder of wonders, the gun toating thug is 17 and just out on parol for being convicted at age 16 as an adult for the very same offense and has a rap sheet back to age 12. The other thug was on parol also for theft. If the parolee gun toating thug had gotten shot and killed, I imagine his family would have wailed that he was a good church going boy studying to be a doctor versus the street hoodlum that he actually is. Unforetunately for society, that thug was not killed and we will have to keep supporting his tail in jail...
I can't tell if the 'wonder of wonders' is sarcastic or some other type of exclamation, but I'm not surprised at all. Most people literally can't hit the broad side of a barn with a handgun, standing still. Add in adrenaline, moving targets, being shot at yourselves, and most people's innate aversion to actually hurting other people; and you've got a recipe for a lot of bullets flying into the background.
@econobiker:
It's not as simple as good vs. bad and it's not \"unfortunate for society that [he] wasn't killed,\" it's unfortunate that our society doesn't do more to stop crime before it starts. Most of these \"hoodlums\" exist for reasons that are too complex for the average person to bother trying to understand, thus we tend to take the easy way out and say, \"lock 'em up and if they get killed, oh well it's just another dead gangster.\"
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@Toof_75_75: Yes, because it's guaranteed that when a criminal pulls a gun on you and you pull a gun on him that you, being the white hat, will automatically win the shootout...?
@Caged Wisdom: The majority of the time there's no shoot out, the criminal runs, they're not willing to take a chance on an armed individual, even if the criminal is armed.
Plus, to be honest, I'd rather have the option than not.
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McNulty!
@endless: @octoSink: Why is the tag for this post not \"The Wire Was A Badass Show\" cause ...it was.
@endless:
That's a load of Bunk!
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit!
@endless: That's why I read the link! Ha ha. McNutty.
Also because my wife loves to sell on Craigslist and it disturbs me how trusting people are over the phone.
1. All business should take place in the garage.
2. We try to sell to polite sounding people, mostly women.