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lehrdude
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Pretty soon we're going to have Periwinkle Tuesday...

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ShruggingGalt
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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So Black Friday starts at 6 am on Thursday now?

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5 replies
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flidget
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@ShruggingGalt: The sale doesn't start any earlier, but by opening the doors such a long time before the sale starts and designating a different line for every major item, the store eliminates the possibility of a huge stampeding crowd.

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RogerTheAlien
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@flidget: But never underestimate the stupidy of people in large groups. There will undoubtedly be idiots who, without reading that the sale doesn't start until Friday, will line up outside the store on Thursday morning anyway. There will be another stampede. But this time there will also be a riot when they realize they're fucking morons and got to Wal*Mart a day early.

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tbax929
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@flidget:
Bingo. At least that seems to be the benefit of it to me, too.

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henneko
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@ShruggingGalt: Why should Christmas get to have all the fun?

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XTC46
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Im pretty sick of stored getting blamed for this kind of stuff. While they certainly encourage it by having big sales, it isnt their fault a crowd of people run and stomp on each other. Stores can do a lot to help the situation, but in the end, its not their fault that people are rude and violent.


I worked at compUSA, and on blackfriday, we had lines around our building, the store would be packed to capacity within 30 minutes of opening.


We let people in in waves to prevent anyone from getting trampled, and asked people not to run. Letting in 30 people, the stopping everyone made running pointless since there was no one behind you. We also handed out vouchers for the door buster items, so running wasnt an issue. We had 30 of something, we had 30 vouchers. We would write the persons name on it, hold it, and then when the person go to the register, we would go get their product. Very easy, and no one got hurt. Basicaly, take away anything that makes acting like an ass worth it.

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el elarmist
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter:
I disagree, a store should take better precautions. Wal-Mart certainly has the money to hire some real security, not just one guard. It is their responsibility, because they are well aware of the madness of Xmas shoppers.

And Wal-Mart also has to be aware of its reputation for attracting uncouth shoppers willing to do anything for a cheap item. They are not known for attracting the most sophisticated, well-mannered shopper. It is Wal-Mart. They are an uber-wealthy company. I can't believe they try to offer low prices by skimping on hiring enough security that wound up killing a lone guard. They should be ashamed of themselves.

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el elarmist
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter:
Ok, not to disagree that the mob is blameless, they are to blame as well. But the mob mentality that Wal-Mart fuels is inexcusable. And they are well aware of it.

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shadowkahn
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: \"it isnt their fault a crowd of people run and stomp on each other.\"

Look, when you go in front of the consumerist society that you and your fellow retailers created, and wave something tantalizing like \"HDTV for 20 bucks,\" and then say it's only available to the first 10 people who get to the back of the store and lay hands on it, you're going to have a stampede. Period. Anyone could tell them that. So yeah, it is their fault.

Like you said about CompUSA, there are easy ways to prevent these stampedes, and Walmart didn't do it.

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subtlefrog
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: I also think that the person shopping at CompUSA is looking for a perhaps slightly different gift than the BlackFriday WalMart shopper.

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sonneillon
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: I agree that the mob is primarily at fault for killing that guy, but there are ways to restrict mob mentality and to keep people from freaking out. Forcing them into lines is actually very effective, there is some sort of primitive herding instinct involved. It is amazing what a nylon rope can do.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_DemandsJusticeForOtters!
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: You kinda contradicted yourself there. A store that doesn't take the precautions you described could be considered at least negligent. Just opening the doors and letting the crowd stampede in is a tad reckless.

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XTC46
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: I said stores can and should make those preperations, but at the end of the night, if people are going to stomp on eachother, its not the stores fault. So while stores can, and maybe should, go out of their way to prevent people from being assholes, when they fail, its not really their fault. I can walk into a store at any given time and thorw somone out of my way, and nothing a store is going to do can stop me.

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henrygates
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: I think that's what they tried last year, except when the tried to hold people back, the crazy Walmart customers pushed the employees down and trampled them.

You can have all the protections and planning in place you want, but you can't stop a huge mob of people. At that point you need a big crazy guy firing a shotgun into the air to stop the chaos.

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Cant_stop_the_rock
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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You'd think you'd be able to tell from the comments on that Jdimytai Damour \"artwork\" that most people find it tasteless and don't appreciate its \"artistic merit.\" I think you could have found something better to link to if you want to respect the guy.

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LandruBek
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Cant_stop_the_rock: Funny, I was thinking just the opposite: I was proud of Ben for posting that artwork last year, even though most people seemingly misunderstood it. I'm glad there's a link this year to remind people to take a second look.

No doubt, it is an alarming image, and it makes the viewer (me at least) uncomfortable. If you're inclined to dismiss it meritless, maybe try reading some of the less knee-jerk comments from last year. The artist said his motive for the image was, in part, how appalled he felt in the aftermath of Damour's death by trampling. I think the image expresses horror and outrage, and that's why it strikes one as horrible and outrageous at first. In part it mirrors the utter lack of respect Damour was afforded as shoppers trampled him to death. At the same time it is so coarse that it forces you to face the fact that no one deserves that kind of miserable fate: it makes you reject the pitiless treatment he received, and to give him some posthumous respect and pity. I think it's really effective art.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_DemandsJusticeForOtters!
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Cant_stop_the_rock: I think it's meant to underscore the distaste most people feel for Black Friday, and the herd mentality that contributed to his death.

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summerbee
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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But what will happen in the store when they start putting all of the Black Friday deals on the shelves early Friday morning? Will customers begin crowding around some poor stockboy? Or, will all of the deals be out on the shelves, but their extra-low prices only activated at the register after the clock strikes 5 am on Friday? Either way, I still think it's going to cause a mild ruckus, whether at the front door or elsewhere.

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flidget
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@summerbee: The deals will be spread out in the store and wrapped until 5. Say you're after a 40-inch TV. When you get to the store, you'll be directed to the line for that item, which won't necessarily be in electronics - it could be in hardware or something, since they're trying to spread the crowds as much as possible. You'll get in line, but you won't be able to lay a hand on the item until 5, and even if you could, it'd come up Sale Not Allowed at the register.

No matter what they do, it's Black Friday and stores will be packed, but they're doing everything they can to make things as smooth and safe as possible. The extra planning, training, and hiring is unlike anything they've ever done.

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Kishi
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Wow, I normally feel bad for Wal-mart employees, but that goes double for the people who have to work on freaking Thanksgiving.

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Agent19488
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Kishi: Amen.

NOWHERE should be open on Thanks-freaking-giving. No call centers, no stores, nothing but police, fire, and the ER. I really do not care if you satellite dish doesn't work on Thanksgiving - maybe you can actually talk to your family and act like you love them, or at least like them, rather than watch a stupid football game.

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shanoaravendare
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Kishi: The Wal-Mart my Mom works at everyone has to work at least 4 hours on Thanksgiving. Mandatory. Her shift? In the middle of the freaking day.

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FaustianSlip
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@shanoaravendare: That's just absurd. I worked at Apple and Best Buy for two different Black Fridays, and while I was in super early come Friday morning, we all got Thanksgiving off, at least (and no one was trampled, despite the Best Buy doorbuster stuff- there were carefully-regulated lines and vouchers to prevent that).

I don't shop at Walmart often anyway, but now I'm going to avoid them even more. There's no reason for people to be at frigging Walmart on Thanksgiving day. I'm sorry if someone forgets to buy cranberry sauce, but seriously, suck it up and give the employees one lousy day at home. Jeez.

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bobateaforyouandme
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@FaustianSlip: I agree! I'm assuming that since they're going to be open all night that customers will camp out in line for the deals IN THE STORE. I'm sure they'll be asking employees to bring them stuff and just generally being annoying.
@shanoaravendare: Yeah, I figured they'd made it mandatory. Black Friday is a mandatory work day. I think if I had to work Thanksgiving, I'd start some kind of boycott. That's just crazysauce.

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dragonfire81
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@shanoaravendare: Well look on the brightside, at least she'll be home in time for turkey dinner.

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henrygates
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@dragonfire81: Unless she's supposed to be cooking it.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Kishi: if they are really lucky walmart pays double time for holidays.
does anyone know?

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tbax929
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@catastrophegirl:
My parents both work for Walmart. I think they said they get time and half for Thanksgiving, if they work.

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searonson
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Kishi: Yeah, my first thought is that working in Walmart on Thanksgiving is totally freakin evil! It used to be that, if you worked retail, Thanksgiving and xmas were your only guaranteed days off. Now our corporate overlords are even taking that away.

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PsiCop
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I agree that continuing to use the word \"doorbuster\" is in very poor taste, given what happened a year ago. Surely all those creative marketing professionals who work in retail around the country, can get their heads together and come up with something better?

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ColoradoShark
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Walmart suckage continues. I feel bad for the people who have to work Thanksgiving and will do my little bit to protest by staying away from all open stores that day.

Exceptions to my attitude are for pharmacies so sick people can get what they need and grocery stores until about noon.

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NotYou007
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I just came back from my local Walmart and my chasier was asking a manager about what was going on. My local Walmart is opening at 12:01 AM and the Black Friday sale will start at 5:00 AM and they will have all 32 check out lines open.


I'm sure some people will camp out infront of certain items but I won't be there. I will be sleeping :-)

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coren
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@NotYou007: I imagine the lines will start for the midnight opening and then people will hold their items in the nice warm Walmart instead

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NotYou007
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@coren: I wish I would have asked the manager how they where going to stop people from getting their hands on certain items early. It is a brand new Walmart with lots of space so I'm sure they have a game plan.

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putzinaround
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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its just people behaving badly. i went to staples 2 years ago on black friday, and they handed out vouchers to people like an hour before they opened....they went down the line said who is here for the laptop, they had 40 or so, and handed them out in the order of the line. because people still rush the door right when they open, they see a huge line, but about 10 or 15 minutes before the store opened a bunch of people started to pile up by the door...people that just got there...and we were ticked, but when the late arrivals rushed the door, all the deals were gone, because we had the vouchers. another staples i went to last year had staff at the door and when late comers tried to rush the door the staff told them to get in the back of the line, and would not let them in until everyone in line was in.

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lajoan
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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what does any of this have to do with the poor little baby Jesus?

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NotYou007
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@lajoan: Your poor little baby Jesus was most likely born around Spring time, not anywhere near Dec. 25th so it has nothing to do with poor little baby Jesus. Just a good time to get some good deals on some stuff.

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RogerTheAlien
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@NotYou007: Besides, Christmas is a time when people of all religions can come together to celebrate the birth of Santa. Duh.

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FangDoc
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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It also means that Wal-Mart will have to be staffed continuously, reducing the ability of employees to spend any part of Thanksgiving with their families.

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bobateaforyouandme
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@FangDoc: It makes me really sad. I hope the store I work for doesn't see this as a \"genius\" idea and do it next year :/

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coren
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I love the spreading it out. Last year I got a 270 360 (when the 60 gig was still 300) with two extra games (ie not just Kung Fu Panda and Indiana Jones (I hated anyone who advertised those as \"bonus\" games or the wii with \"bonus remote\" when they were selling hte fucking standard bundle)) on Thanksgiving online, and that was that. This year i snagged a 40 inch 1080p Insignia for 500, and I wont even talk about how ridiculous the B2G1 Free game sale got. It's to the point where I can't think of anything else I really want that I don't have.

Other than computer components, and I always go Newegg for that.

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jdmba
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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First off, having a guard or two on the outside, forming a line; instead of letting mobs rush the door would be a start.

It is VITAL to remember that people who get up at 3AM to stand outside a store are pretty much from the shallow end of the gene pool and so anything is possible. Except for 1 or 2 items reserved for the first people to grab them (assuming the store employees haven't hidden them anyway), better deals can be found online.

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smiling1809
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@jdmba:


\"It is VITAL to remember that people who get up at 3AM to stand outside a store are pretty much from the shallow end of the gene pool and so anything is possible.\"


No kidding. Apparently, come of them can't seem to overcome their primal urge to get a flat screen for $10.00 off and don't mind killing someone to make that happen.

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Meddygon
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Unrelated to Wal*Mart, but related to \"Early black Friday\"-

REI stores will be having a winter sports sale 11/20 through 11/22 with extended hours on all days (roughly 9am to 9 or 10 pm at all stores). Black Friday itself will be 8 AM to 9 or 10.

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chadraytay
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I've seen about 10 lists of the \"differences\" for this years sale. Other than non-super centers being open 24 hours, there are none. All stores with common sense were already doing the sales this way on their own.

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thrashanddestroy
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Jesus, really? \"Doorbuster\" has been used in retail marketing since God only knows when. If you really want to honor the memory of Jdimytai Damour, how about not using such a tacky image some child whipped up in fifth hour graphic design class? I'm sure his family would be more insulted by that than hearing a phrase used since their childhood.

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Alys Brangwin can't stop the beat
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Buy Nothing Day is only two weeks away! Hooray!

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MooseOfReason
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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It wasn't their fault in the first place.

I can't believe people were blaming Wal-Mart for the actions of a mob of shoppers.

If someone's door got broken down and his house got robbed, whose fault is that?

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Tawnie is Monster Mashing
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I am just waiting for them all to say how dispointing sales were for the 27th. I have seen no deals in what has been leaked online so far. Wal Mart included.

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saltyoak
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I wish this year we could all vote with our dollars, avoid black Friday, just don't buy anything, and put the fear of the consumer on Wal- mart

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DaWezl
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I never bother with Black Friday myself, but I'm wondering what would stop someone from buying the \"doorbuster\" product at full price a few days before and then coming in and asking for a price adjustment on BF? Usually the ads have been leaked in plenty of time to know what's going on sale.

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Outrun1986
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@DaWezl: A lot of stores close the customer service desk on BF during doorbuster hours or sometimes for the whole day. It may be in bad taste but it has been done more than once. Just proves that retailers do not care, they just want you to buy all the crap they sell and nothing more.

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bobateaforyouandme
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@DaWezl: The store probably won't allow a price adjustment to match Black Friday items. But I could be wrong.

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r386
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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so these retailers are spreading out black friday deals for employee safety....... yeah ..... sure ..... it has nothing to do with the likely horrible holiday spending season ahead

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andoman
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Stores can't be blamed, but wouldn't you try to take precautions against possible crazy morons? I mean its not good for business!

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Hands
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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WalMart insured my safety by banning that gay couple for something they didn't do. Corporate sanctioned bigotry is a great way of saying, \"Hands, we don't want your business.\"

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Mykro
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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The Walmart in Greenwood, Indiana has always been open all night on thanksgiving. My aunt and I always arrive around 1am and stake out the black pallets, then we strategize where who's gonna stand, and we guard them with our lives...

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A_smilodon
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I've never gone to one of these things in my lifetime and don't plan to start now. Most of the time you can get good deals throughout the Christmas shopping season anyway and if you plan ahead and shop the whole year (Christmas comes around at the same day every year, it's not a surprise) you can do much better than Black Friday.

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BytheSea
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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So basically, this Thanksgiving, my cheapest, cheesiest relatives will be spending it out shopping.

Ok then.

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duetoprivacy
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I was hoping that this was a typo and it was 6pm, not 6am.


I guess I can't wrapped my mind around the person that is going to camp out in front of their desired HDTV or to save 60 bucks on whatever their must have electronic of the year is. If you think about it in terms of time is money, thats not really making a good return at all.

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