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Rask
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Between this and the 15$ extra charge for Exchange Activesync support(heard this on Buzz Out Loud), Verizon isn't looking like a very appealing provider to get a smartphone from.

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7 replies
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rickhamilton620
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Rask: Another BOL listener? Nice! :) I saw this in the rundown yesterday :p Hopefully Verizon will get out the word that you only pay 45 dollars if you want to use Verizon's Hosted Exchange solution.


I'm also glad this ETF thing is for new contracts, i'm getting ready to jump ship to T-Mobile for the HD2 *drools*

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milrtime83
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Rask: The $15 Echange support is for business users running a corporate exchange server. If that charge applies to you then you're most likely on a business account with the company paying for your service. No regular consumer should be paying that $15.

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Sir Winston Thriller
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@milrtime83: I sometimes check my work email via our Outlook on the Web site--I'm guessing that in that case, this charge wouldn't apply to me. Correct?

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yasth
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@milrtime83: Lots of people connect with their work email server with their private phones. Why they want to torture themselves I don't know, but it is hardly uncommon.

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milrtime83
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@yasth: Yes, I did too for a while until I decided I wasn't being paid enough to deal with work stuff on personal time. But I'm saying you can still do that without the extra $15 charge if the phone is on your personal account.

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rellog321
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Rask: Except for the Droid that is... :)

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cpt.snerd
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Rask: This will only apply to Business Users I think.

[www.wired.com]

Consumers and regular people will get to use to for the $30 price point.

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theblackdog
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@cpt.snerd: Yeah, looks like it's only for business users who are using Verizon's exchange solution

[www.pcmag.com]

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He
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Why don't they just make the ETF different for every device based on the subsidy amount? That would be the fair.

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5 replies
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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@He: i got a free phone recently (buy 1 Chocolate 3, get the second free), and part of the fine print was that if i canceled within a certain time frame (1 year, iirc) i would have to pay back the difference between the promotional rate (free) and the regular rate ($50, i think)

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zacox
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@He: Why dont they just stop subsidizing devices and offer them at a fair price. Oh wait, it's because they're still scared that you're gonna jump ship for the better-plan-of-the-month elsewhere.

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XTC46
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@zacox: Becasue the fair cost of phones is more than most people will pay. A High end smart phone will cost upwards of $800, they are basically handheld computers. HTC is relelaseing a phone with a 1GHz Processor, 1GB of RAM, a several GB of space...My netbook as similar specs, and has a whole lot more room to cram it all into.

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West Coast Secessionist
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: Bull. Most people buy cheap-ass phones that can't possibly cost more than $75. The \"subsidy\" is a lie. Phones are subsidized to the tune of $25-75 in almost all cases except smartphones (which are still a tiny portion of the overall market) yet the telcos charge $350 ETFs. This is pure profit for them.

The whole thing is a scam in order to justify the oppressive contracts.

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jamar0303
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: But they do. Heck, Sharp sells non-smartphones for upwards of US$500 here (China) and they sell like hotcakes. No. 1 in its price bracket (basically the US$500+ bracket- yes, it beat most smartphones as well as other high-end phones like the Aura).

Or if US carriers would actually be reasonable and allow prepaid users to have the same package plans as postpaid users they could do like the local iPhone carrier here in China and use the \"prepay\" as the subsidy guarantee. Pre-pay US$900-something and you get it for free. No need for an ETF- because the money's aleady locked in the account and you can only use it with them. Unfortunately they don't extend the same system to other phones.

Instead it's, for example, about US$120 off above-mentioned Sharp phone (Google for \"SH0902C\" if you're wondering what exactly manages to beat the pants off HTC's high-end smartphones sales-wise for the past couple months) if you sign a 2-year contract at about US$26/month (510 minutes, 20 videocall minutes, 600MB internet phone or tethering, free multimedia content off the carrier's portal, free incoming anything with free incoming text anywhere in the world). It's free if you sign at US$120/month (3000 minutes, 200 videocall minutes, 3GB internet, but otherwise perks same as above- and did I mention that overage is US$.01/minute? And internet overage is US$.03/MB? And roaming to the US is only US$.32/minute and US$.21/text? AT&T's CS sucks so bad I'm willing to pay the extra just to be able to deal with CS people that are actually helpful).

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VisionFromAfar
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@He: Fair? FAIR? You, my friend, obviously don't have a phone from Verizon. The only reason I've stuck with them is their coverage + company discount.

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dragonfire81
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@He: That would be too confusing for customers.

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bohemian
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Does Verizon have any method available for you to try out a phone before you commit to buying it and the 2 year contract?

The Droid looks appealing but after the fail that is our current LG phones I want to try one first. Our LG phones have such horrible voice quality I avoid making calls on it. I don't want to make that mistake with a smart phone.

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4 replies
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kcvaliant
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@bohemian: Yes all phone companies have this.. Also, even if it goes beyond the date you can always swap out phones.. I have done this a few times.. The latest was 2 months after I had it because I hated the phone so much..

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startertan
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@bohemian:

You should be able to get a phone and try it out for 30 days and return it if you don't like it. If you use your NE2 they would credit it back to you if you decide to return the phone...at least that's what they've always told me.

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pecan 3.14159265
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@bohemian: Like startertan said, Verizon usually gives you 30 days. The key is to remember the return date and then write a day for the week before it in huge red letters and post it at eye-level in your home. Then you know how much time you have because things will always pop up last minute and you don't want to be stuck with a phone you don't like because the dog ate a marker and needs to go to the vet.

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GitEmSteveDave_ Natural H1N1 Cure
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Also program some reminders in the phone, so it reminds you itself. Hrmmmm. I wonder if we could mandate providers to do that. program a reminder into every new handset that 30 days is almost up. Perhaps a free text message...

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startertan
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@GitEmSteveDave_ Natural H1N1 Cure: I don't know if I'd like that. I'm a big fan of personal responsibility and I'm willing to accept the consequences if I forget to return it within the time period. For me personally, it's too close to regulating how fast I can drive by speed limiting a car to 55mph. Just my take on it.

Something else I found out. Had 2 friends, one was NE2 ready but didn't want a new phone, one was still in mid contract but wanted a new phone. Though the NE2 friend could get a BB, then say they don't like it, use the NE2 credit and then just sell it to mid contract friend. No dice b/c the BB data plan has a automatic 6 month time frame so even if NE2 friend canceled he'd be responsible for paying for BB data for 6 months.

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temporaryerror
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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I wonder if this was done in response to people pulling a fast one or if it was in anticipation of people pulling fast ones.
What it basically breaks down to is 2 ETF's- one for the basic service and one for the data/smartphone service.

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Ronin-Democrat
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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still want your iphone on verizon?

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2 replies
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GitEmSteveDave_ Natural H1N1 Cure
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Ronin-Democrat: Only if they mate it with my Casio GzOne Boulder. Water, shock, and dust proof iPhone? Yes, please!

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Muthafodder
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Isn't this change in terms & conditions reason enough for existing Verizon customers to terminate without an ETF?

I wish AT&T would make another change...

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2 replies
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edesignway
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Muthafodder: No because it is for new service, not existing.

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nbs2
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Muthafodder: Likely not, as it looks like this will only be implemented for phones purchased after 15 Nov. The contracts already extant will not be affected.

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theblackdog
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Reading BGR's commentary about \"Flip my Blackberry\" isn't that what a bunch of people were doing with the iPhone when it first came out? AT&T is probably pissed they didn't think about this first.

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1 replies
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mikells43
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@theblackdog_FeelingRandom:


I flipped my 1 storm that vzw didnt make me send back in. and i flipped my storm when i bought the tour, i made about hmm lets say 500 plus the 268 they credited my bank acct with when i sent a defective storm 1 in. :).

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idip
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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I miss my iPhone... but when I think that I only used 40 minutes on my prepaid phone last year (Gave up iPhone for Tracfone) I just think of the money I'm saving.

Still use the old 1st Gen iPhone as an \"iPod Touch\".

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2 replies
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Warren
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@idip: Amen. I spend about $8 per month on my Tracfone minutes and I've never had to sign a contract.

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idip
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@idip: And by last year I mean, last month... of course.

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tmlfan81
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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I understand why Verizon is doing this. In the off chance you are one of those people that sign up for two lines of service and cancel the second to subsidize the first, they lose money. Under a two-year agreement, the secondary smartphone would pay at least $9.99 a month being the secondary line on the account + $29.99 a month for the device being on a data plan. That's about $960 over the course of two years, multiplied out by the number of new 2-year subscribers they get so it certainly adds up. (That's before overages, text messaging and other features get used / bolted on)

Now had they introduced this right before the Android was released, it may have tempered some of the excitement surrounding the device. I think it will cause some discomfort for early adopters - those that would already pay an early term fee from their current carrier to switch to Verizon only to pay an arm and a leg to jump ship again should they grow tired of the Droid. However, I don't think it will hurt sales too much.

I only wish that they would have increased the ETF for everyone, so I could have gotten out of my own contract w/o term fees and played the waiting game to see what the final verdict was on Droid before dropping $200 on the phone again. It only takes one bad experience to make you think twice. Looking to get an Ozone - maybe.

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1 replies
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12-Inch Idongivafuck Sandwich
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@tmlfan81: Now had they introduced this right before the Android was released, it may have tempered some of the excitement surrounding the device. I think it will cause some discomfort for early adopters - those that would already pay an early term fee from their current carrier to switch to Verizon only to pay an arm and a leg to jump ship again should they grow tired of the Droid. However, I don't think it will hurt sales too much.

Thats me exactly. I was going to jump ship and pay the ETF from ATT and switch to Verizon for the Droid. Just didn't want to do it before 11/15. I like to be an early adopter, but want to make sure the phone isn't garbage (from real life reviews, not just blogs/etc). Everyone I know is on ATT, so the change would be big for me (minutes used and whatnot, so may have to get a more expensive plan), but I was going to do all that to get this phone.

Now...not so sure...

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dbshaw
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Given the number of times they make changes to the contract that lets you out without paying an ETF, shouldn't be a big deal.

Still, good to know. Read them contracts people!

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Wireless Joe
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Wouldn't it be ironic (in a Morissette way) if this was all being put in place in anticipation of user frustration with network issues related to high data usage on the very smartphones they're buying.

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Silversmok3
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Keep in mind, on the $9.99 plan data is probably mandatory-so that additional phone costs $39.99 per month if its a BB.

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Darkneuro
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Keep in mind that when you get one of the 'smartphones', you will also have a higher monthly premium and a higher deductible if you have phone insurance.
I work for a cell-phone insurer, and I wish I had a dollar for every customer who has complained about their smartphone. TEST it in the store, see if you can play with your friend's phone. Read the reviews. If EVERYONE has issues with the touch screen (that you can't calibrate!), you will too. Trust me.

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1 replies
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West Coast Secessionist
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Darkneuro: no offense at all to you, but in my opinion, phone insurance is a ripoff, unless you have a hella expensive phone and break it whatever the max permitted number of times is. I think Verizon's asurion insurance says you can have 2 replacements per year. Maybe if I was that clumsy.

But still I'd rather save the money and bet against me breaking my phone, then if I do break it use the would-have-spent-on-insurance money to help me buy a NEW phone instead of the crap used phones Asurion sends.

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broncobiker
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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I was gonna say...theres an abundance of ways to slip out of your contract ETF free. You just have to know where to look and what to complain about hah.

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1 replies
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RvLeshrac
December 7, 2009 2:36 AM
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Here's one: with Verizon, I barely get 3G service at home, and get no voice service at all. (Well, OK, as I type this, I have a stuttering bar).

I almost guarantee that the majority of people will have dead spots in their houses. Couple that with advertising and your state's AG, and you've got a pretty easy contract \"out.\"

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pratzert
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Just don't offer any 2-for-1 sale of smart phones.


I believe there is some sort of price fixing going on anyway of ALL cell phones.


You can get a subsidized phone on a two year commitment,
But no matter what, you end up paying full pop for a phone without a commitment.


Why can I find sales on any other electronic ityem EXCEPT a cell phone ?

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1 replies
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teke367
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@pratzert: I think so too, I can't believe that I can buy an Ipod Touch for $200, but some crap cell phone would cost over $300 without a subsidy. Really, it can't cost that much to add the phone portion.


This deal wouldn't be a bad deal from Verizon if the monthly deductions equalled the total ETF. If you cancelled one day before your contract ended (you'd be dumb, but still), you would owe them $110 still.

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