var json_comments = new Array("
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Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Well this should make all the \"pro-baby lovers\" on this site happy. See they kick off adults as well. Lesson learned, everyone, parents, kids, adults, learn how to behave in public.

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harrier666
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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During a commercial airline flight an Air Force Pilot was seated next to a young mother with a babe in arms. When the baby began crying during the descent for landing, the mother began nursing the infant as discreetly as possible.

The pilot pretended not to notice and, upon disembarking, he gallantly offered his assistance to help with the various baby-related items.

When the young mother expressed her gratitude, the pilot responded, \"Gosh, that's a good looking baby...and he sure was hungry!\"

Somewhat embarrassed, the mother explained that her pediatrician said that the time spent on the breast would help alleviate the pressure in the baby's ears.

The Air Force Pilot sadly shook his head, and in true pilot fashion exclaimed, \"And all these years, I've been chewing gum.\"@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather:

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LadySiren is murdering her kids with HFCS and processed cheese
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: Random Stephen Wright joke: \"If corn oil comes from corn, and olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?\"

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Smashville
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: Why don't you go beat your kids or something, deadbeat. That's the kind of response you were looking for with that trolling comment, right? Well...there you go.

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Trai_Dep
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: Call me a stickler, but I won't be satisfied until someone hits him in the face then argues it's a learning experience for him.

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tmed
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: That's me - I am much happier seeing adults kicked off than kids under 5.


I have seen the best behaved kids stress out and break down and holding them to an adult standard is ridiculous. Holding adults to that standard, naturally, is not.

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sicknick
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@tmed: Not trying to cause a flame war, just a discussion here:


I agree that children should not be held to the levels of adults to a point, but where are the adults who are watching that child to be made responsible for unruly kids? Yes, kids act out, but that doesn't make it a right or correct for them to be allowed to.


Point of fact, as a young kid, we were in a department store (Hudson's! I'm showing my age here) and I was playing in the clothing racks like they were my own private fort. I was told by my Mom to stop. I didn't, and she grabbed me by the arm and asked a store clerk where the bathroom was. She took me in and beat my ass. Needless to say, I stopped hiding in the clothing racks.


I feared my mother, as all children should fear their parents. She could give me an evil look most times or speak in That Tone and I was picture perfect. When I wasn't, I got the wooden spoon or her hand. Why can't we hold all parents to these standards, since we'd cut down greatly (there is no way to erradicate it) on unruly children in public.


Again, not trying to start a fight (since there is no easy answer to this fight) but I'm just posing a thought.

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bwcbwc
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@sicknick: Well, partly because nowadays if you whack your kid you get taken off the plane for child abuse. The social double-standard has left parents in a situation where if their kid doesn't respond to \"modern discipline\", the only alternative is to go to jail or to let the kid act out.

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shepd
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@sicknick:

Ruling by fear is not a good thing. It teaches children that the way to be in control is to be able to instill fear. That means when the kids become older teenagers, they may turn on their parents, if they've actually learned the fear lesson correctly.

Incidentally, this goes for citizens of most countries, too.

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nybiker
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@sicknick: I didn't fly when I was a child (my first flight was when I was 17), but growing up we feared my mom and not my dad. Mom would have no qualms about smacking us on the backside (of course, if we twisted & shouted, the smack might hit us elsewhere) and it didn't matter if we were outdoors or at home. And if we were home, yeah, the wooden spoon could be used. Dad, well, he was afraid he'd lose control and really go off on us, so his threats about hitting us were just that.

Fortunately, the 4 of us boys turned out ok (actually, let's just say 3 out of 4 did - my youngest brother is not what I'd call any sort of angel).


I think it all comes back to kids being taught boundaries and parents enforcing them. Yes, a 2-year-old is probably not going to truly understand it all, but I imagine that as they get older they should be able to. (I say I imagine, as I am not a parent, so I don't know the exact time when a child starts to be able to understand the rules of flying).

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katstermonster
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@sicknick: You're absolutely right - children who are misbehaving for the sake of misbehaving should be dealt with. I'm 22, and I'm still terrified of The Look, as I should be.


However - there are extenuating circumstances. Hypothetical: a 2-year-old has an ear infection and has to fly. Or heck, a 2-year-old with sensitive ears has to fly. I have sensitive ears, it's miserable. I've cried while flying before from the pain. The 2-year-old isn't crying and screaming because he or she is a bad child, but because he or she is in intense pain. There's only so much you can do to quiet the child. Yeah, it's miserable for everyone else, but what are you really going to do?

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sicknick
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@katstermonster: Again, from my childhood, my mother was directed by her pediatrician to add 1-2 tsp of whiskey to my formula when teething. A 2 yr old can be given the same to knock them out so they aren't A) in pain or B) or a bother to others.


I have sinus issues and I self medicate in a variety of ways before getting on a flight. Xanax, booze, dramamene, etc. It's just cruel to let a kid cry for hours, also disturbing those around you in a cramped/shared space, instead of knocking them out.

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katstermonster
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@sicknick: My kids will be getting doses of Benadryl before a flight. Some parents aren't comfortable doing that, though, and I can't entirely fault them for that.

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bwcbwc
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@katstermonster: That works 2 ways since it can relieve pressure in the ears and sinus as well as putting them to sleep.

Better take some yourself, though. Otherwise you'll be zoning out in bed at your destination while the kids'll be bouncing off the walls.

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KristinaBeana
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@katstermonster: Make sure they do not have the reaction I did as a kid - and actually still do as an adult. Benadryl makes me ultra-hyper, my heart races, my eyes dilate and I even begin to shake. So, the exact opposite of sedation.

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tmed
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@KristinaBeana: Same with me as a kid and my younger boy (stuff knocks out my older boy faster than a mallet). Also, you can't always count on medications having a consistant reaction in a child. He / she may be sedated once and hyper the next.


I'm not saying not to dose your kid before flying - it can be really effective and it's pretty safe, but don't rely on it too heavily.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@sicknick: And your mother received dangerous advice that injured kids.

I have no objection to doctor-approved medicating of kids, on planes or elsewhere, but I do think that one other difference between then and now is that the entitlement obsession goes across the board--people mistakenly feel entitled to exist without ever being touched by another person, exposed to another person's smell, or hearing another person, and that's as much a self-indulgence as parents who feel that their children are entitled to do whatever they want.

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tmed
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@sicknick: We are discussing radically different situations. A department store is not a plane. Planes pose a myriad of special circumstances that result in some epic meltdowns by kids. Once again I am talking about kids under 5, after that, barring developmental troubles, even a bad emotional fit should be under control pretty quickly and the kid should be aware enough of the community to try to behave themselves.


I disagree fully that a kid should fear physical pain from a parent. There should be respect for a parent and respect for parents' authority coupled with a desire to behave well. I was spanked and whipped with a belt as a kid, and I never stopped doing sh*t and hiding it from my parents.


With my own boys, they were never allowed to misbehave in public and if they did, we would be out of public quickly and learning just how much control they have in their life and how quickly it can be taken away.


This is not to start a fight, I know people who used corporal punishment effectively, it was simply not for me.

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soundreasoning
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@tmed: What about holding their parents to that standard? I mean having them take responsibility.
Anyway I agree with your statement but that doesn't mean there's not a line for kids too.

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DH405
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@tmed: And a parent with an unruly child has the right to disturb my experience how? I don't care what your circumstances are, they don't give you any extra rights to disturb others.

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tmed
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@DH405: That is absolute crap. The kid (again - under 5) has the right because at some point - he / she does not have the ability to stop. The parent who has the kid in the middle of the meltdown does not have the right to be belligerant, but that does not give the general public the right or the justification to treat the parent like anyone except someone in the middle of an unfortuante situation and offer aid as appropriate. If the parent is not apologetic, concerned, and embarassed already, than you are not going to be able to help the situation and those with the authority to do so (the flight crew in this case) should fix the situation. You have no right to pile on someone in the situation.


You have no inalienable right to a hassle-free existance. If you simply choose to be a d*ck who does not care about another person's circumstance, than stay the at home. Sometimes people have to fly with kids in the modern world. Sometimes that goes badly.


Once again, adults should get booted off the plane and arrested in Boston.

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mamalicious
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@tmed:
\"You have no inalienable right to a hassle-free existance.\" Yep, this.

If more people would realize this, I think the world would be a better place.

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gtrgod01
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@mamalicious: Good luck trying to get that point through the thick skulled 20-something ass hats on this site that spew hate towards children every chance they get.

Apparently \"they\" think that simply buying a plane ticket entitles them to sleep, absolute silence and purified air (ie...no dirty diapers).

All their comments do is show how young and inexperienced in \"real\" life they really are....They seem to think they are entitled to everything at the expense of others all while saying \"you don't have that right at MY expense\". They are all hypocritical ass hats who need to grow up....

The more they post, the more you can tell it's not just kids they hate, it's anything/anytime they don't get what they want or feel they deserve or are \"entitled\" to by some fictitious set of \"rights\" that simply don't exist anywhere but in their warped, detached from reality minds....

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@tmed: What's weird is that the \"I'm entitled not to hear this stuff!\" is actually part of the same indulgence that such people object to in others.

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littlemisslondon
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@DH405: Right, I guess I should just stay inside my house for the next 5-6 years in case my infant happens to cry where someone other than myself and her father can hear her!

That's fucking ridiculous. Put on some noice-cancelling headphones and be a mensch.

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tackett
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@littlemisslondon:
Pull up a chair, youngster...

Ya see, long ago, most kids were well behaved because their parents made it happen. A crying kid on a bus, or a plane, or at the grocery store wasn't very common, and people accepted it.

Now, every kid can do no wrong, as long as his/her self-esteem is high. Now, crying kids are *everywhere* and most of the people around you are really tired of it.

You might be the best parent in the world, and keep your kids under control in public most of the time. However, the vast majority of Americans simply don't. The rest of us are tired of it.

So yeah, we probably go overboard sometimes, and want to remove kids from airplanes. If it was an uncommon occurrence, people wouldn't care.

The rest of the country messed it up for you.

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AK47 - Now with longer screen name!
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@littlemisslondon: Huge difference between \"my kid's upset and is crying, but I will act like a reasonable parent and do what needs to be done to calm him/her down\" versus \"I will ignore this raging tantrum because my kid's allowed to cry and scream and wail to the point where everyone in this confined little plane wants to light them on fire and put them out with a screwdriver. Hey, kids will be kids.\"


If you fall into the second camp, then please do stay home for the next 5-6 years, because I find you fucking ridiculous.

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littlemisslondon
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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Let's see here...

There needs to be a distinction made between \"tantrums\" and \"really, really young kids crying\". If your 3-year-old won't stop throwing stuff, then fucking make them stop. But very young babies sometimes cry. That's just what they do. And unless you think they, and therefore their parents, have no right to be anywhere public, you may need to occasionally deal with a crying kid. Suck it up and be a mensch.

(Caveat: I don't think very young infants belong on airplanes in general, but in an emergency it's sometimes unavoidable.)

@Traveshamockery: No one's suggesting you enjoy an infant's cries. My kid isn't perfect. But she is under 3 months old. Would you tell your sister, or your mom, or a woman you care about (if there are any), that she should never leave the house with her child until it's old enough never to cry?

@AK47: My kid is currently 2.5 months old (and no, I'm not planning on taking her on an airplane anytime soon). If a 2.5 month old kid cries, I can try to calm her down, but if she starts crying in line at the grocery store and nothing I'm doing is calming her down, I'm sorry to say that I'm more likely to let the people around me endure her crying for 5 minutes so I can buy my groceries rather than abandon the cart.

@tackett: Yeah, I guess you're right. Sigh.

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ohenry
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@littlemisslondon: My childhood upbringing was a lot like some others have said here; I grew up in fear of the wooden spoon, and turned out just fine.


Personally, I don't hit my 3 year old. But when they get to be 2 or 3 years old there isn't too much of an excuse, I think. I haven't taken my kid on a plane, but I've had him in public situations where he's been upset. All I have to do is look into his eyes and talk with my deep, low, \"I mean business now\" voice and he gets the point. I've never hit him, just used timeouts and grounding. Works well enough.

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Traveshamockery
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@littlemisslondon: Ah, self-important parents.

MY LITTLE ANGEL IS PERFECT AND YOU WILL ENJOY HER CRIES! HOW DARE YOU LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT!? SHE HAS AN EAR INFECTION!

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Erskine
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Traveshamockery:


\"SHE HAS AN EAR INFECTION!\"


I have a leatherman - bring her to me...

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s73v3r
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@littlemisslondon: You gonna spring for them for me? And are you gonna get the flight staff to allow me to use them during the parts of the flight when you can't use electronic devices?

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littlemisslondon
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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oh, and...

@s73v3r: Tell you what. If you and I are ever on a flight together, and my kid is old enough to understand the word \"no\" and that she should behave, and she starts misbehaving and yelling/screaming at you, I will personally buy you a pair of noise-cancelling headphones out of the fucking Skymall catalogue.

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Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@RandomHookup: sorry it should have read \"baby-lovers\" or \"pro children should be given carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want to do because they are kids and if you don't agree you are the anti-christ and you should never be allowed to procreate\" folks.

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h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@RandomHookup: I guess so. I love things that are anti-gravity, and antimatter, so I'd probably love anti-babies.

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Kuchen
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@RandomHookup: Someone who hates people that love babies?

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@shepd: I guess that'd be me. Disinfanting sounds nasty.

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PsiCop
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: Actually I expect some responses will be along the lines of, \"It's reasonable to expect adults to behave, but 2-year-olds? How dare anyone impose on them to sit still and be quiet? Why, of course they're unruly! They should be!\"

Or something like that.

Not that I buy that excuse myself. Just that someone will, no doubt, offer it.

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Saboth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@PsiCop:

\"Look, kids will be bad. What can I do about it? I don't have a corner to send them to for a 30 second time-out, and aside from useless time outs and ignoring the problem, what else is a breeder to do?\"

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Erskine
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Saboth:


\"what else is a breeder to do?\"


Nyquilada...

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UGAdawg
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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So they couldn't give him a row to himself? Was the flight sold out?

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Trai_Dep
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@UGAdawg: Hrm... It looks like he got into a row all by himself!

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DangerMouth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@UGAdawg: Without making a bunch of wild-ass assumptions here, I can easily imagine a scenario where the passenger either asked for or demanded an upgrade, was refused, and decided to takes his pissiness out on those around him.

I flew 100k miles a years for many years, and saw all tyoes of entitled, bratty passengers. I got many upgrades at the last minute, both paid and free, and one thing you learned playing the game was that gate agents have an extrordinary amount of discretion as to upgrades and it paid to be really, really nice to them.

Being moved up a cabin after you were already on the plane was much more rare, though it did happen opccasionally.

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FatLynn
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@UGAdawg: Arrangements like these need to be made in advance. You can't just get on the flight and demand an accommodation.

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woogychuck
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@FatLynn: He very well could have made arrangements in advance. I travel with my son on a regular basis and there have been at least 3 occassions when our seats were changed despite booking months in advance. In one case, they moved our seats 8 rows apart even though he was 2 years old at the time. The ticketing and gate agents refused to change our seats and the gate agent even attempted to add an un-attended minor fee to my sons ticket. In the end, we had to walk around the gate asking people to switch seats.


Also, was he injured when he purchased the ticket? If not, we can't really expect him to know the future.

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FatLynn
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@woogychuck: What airline were you on? I have never heard of confirmed seats being changed for no apparent reason, but I also don't fly USAirways.

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PinkBox
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@FatLynn: I've had confirmed seats changed before, but I don't remember which airline it was.

They moved my boyfriend back several rows, and had me squished between two guys. Luckily my bf convinced the woman beside him to switch somehow.

I'm thankful, since the flight was over five hours long.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@FatLynn: It's often the result of an aircraft change, so it can happen on pretty much any airline.

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formergr
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@floraposte: It does happen quite a bit (it's not on purpose, usually an aircraft change or a computer burp), and generally when there is a small child involved it falls on the gate agent and/or flight attendants to go around asking others to swap seats so the child can sit with at least one parent.

Usually they don't make passengers do it themselves, though, and certainly the unattended minor fee attempt is a new one for me. Ballsy!

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Quake 'n' Shake
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@FatLynn: If you buy well in advance, it can happen when the flight schedules change. Typically, the airlines just spit out 2 new seats for you, and those aren't always the same arrangement. This is especially true if, as floraposte mentioned, the aircraft type changes.

Last year, I bought tickets on Delta about 10 months in advance. Knowing the flight schedules would likely change several times, I checked my itinerary weekly. Sure enough, changes were made automatically to accommodate the schedule changes. I recall having to change the seats too. After one \"automatic\" schedule change, they stupidly had us landing in Atlanta after our connecting flight had already departed.

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Oddfool
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Quake 'n' Shake: I had the same issue a couple of years ago with my son and I traveling from San Diego to D.C. Since our hotel accommodations were different, we had 2 separate itineraries. Halfway through the year, flights were changed, and we were split up on separate flights, with his having an extra stop. I'm definitely glad I had kept monitoring throughout the year, so I could fix anything that came up.

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FatLynn
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Quake 'n' Shake: Ah, you are right, this has happened to me now that I think about it. I am just vigilant about checking my seat assignments, and would be even more so if I required a special accommodation due to disability or injury.

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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@UGAdawg: that was my first thought, move him either to another row, or first class. but i'd get ticked off if i was on that flight, and some jackass got more room for being a dick.

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Dondegroovily
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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If it was a broken bone, maybe it had to be in the aisle to heal properly. Just sayin'

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formergr
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Dondegroovily: If that was the case, it's something he should have a) called ahead to the airline about, b) talked to the gate agent about when he got to the airport, and c) also talked to the purser/head flight attendant once on the plane about.

If he was polite, they would have tried their hardest to accommodate his injury... I've had some awful airline service, and really nasty FAs and gate agents, but I've never see someone with an injury *not* be accommodated if they were polite.

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yevarechecha
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@formergr: Really. My brother flew last year with an enormous knee brace after a skiing accident. He wasn't on crutches (though he was supposed to be) but was moving extremely slowly and had to go through a bunch of contortions to readjust the brace to bend his leg in the seat. The airline switched him to an aisle seat, boarded him before everyone else, checked on him throughout the flight, moved his carry-on around for him, and had wheelchair assistance waiting for him at the gate when they landed. The TSA was predictably rude about it all, but the airline treated him wonderfully.

The Herald article says this guy was asked to move his arm out of the way for the beverage cart and refused. That's just plain rude. Flying can be a really frustrating experience, but what did he really think that would accomplish?

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tmed
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Dondegroovily: Can't fly then. If first-class wasn't full, they shuld have just upgraded him. It sounds like it really wasn't comfortable for the passenger. Pilot clearly made the right call.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Dondegroovily: You don't get to be in the aisle, though. So if that was the situation, he can't fly on the airplane just for that reason.

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DangerMouth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@floraposte: Right, if he had told them at the gate the arm 'needed' to be in the aisle, they would not have let him board in the first place. It's a pretty basic safety rule- aisles are to be kept clear.

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K-Bo
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Dondegroovily: If it's a broken bone, it ain't gonna feel so great when they bang it with the beverage cart.

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mattharvest
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Dondegroovily: That's hard to imagine, unless he had a full-sized chest cast. They explicitly describe it as requiring a \"splint\", which means he had to have arm flexibility.

What's much more likely is that he was in pain (and pissed off about the injury) and refused to comply because like most people he hates air travel.

Good for the Pilot, not ruining the entire trip, but the several hours of delay probably weren't welcome for the rest of the plane. They should be able to sue the passenger for their damages.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Oh, my God--they pulled over to the side of the road!

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diasdiem
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@floraposte: It's like my Mom was flying the plane. Nothing shut us up faster as kids than Mom whipping the car over 2 lanes to the side of the road. Wrath quickly followed.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@diasdiem: My mom once pulled over on an interstate, and a cop stopped and told her she wasn't allowed to do that unless it was an emergency. \"Mister,\" she said hotly, \"when you have two kids fighting in the back, it is an emergency!\" He moved along.

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diasdiem
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@floraposte: Nowadays parents have in-car DVD players to keep kids quiet. When I was little Mom just had a long-handled wooden spoon in the front seat.

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DangerMouth
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@diasdiem: My partner is fond of recounting the time his parents pulled over in the middle of nowhere, new mexico, and left him and his cousin on the side of the road.

I think they were about eight at the time. It would have been a long walk back to CT.

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diasdiem
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@DangerMouth: My mom used to tell us that those white X's you see on the road now and then were drop-off points for parents to leave their children for UFO's to pick up.

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formergr
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@diasdiem: Oh god, that's awesome!
**mentally files away for when I become a parent**

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DangerMouth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@diasdiem: Oh, that's funny, but I can see that backfiring. I can definately imagine a kid screaming to be dropped off there to 'see the UFO's'.

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diasdiem
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@DangerMouth: One that apparently doesn't backfire is two words one of my sister's ex-boyfriends mother used: \"Trunk Therapy.\" This would explain a lot, since that guy turned out to be a real psycho.

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Applekid
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@floraposte: That was a warning. Next time it's a swift kick in the butt out the door mid-flight.

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rpm773
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@floraposte: Yes, but not until after the pilot had reached wildly into the back, trying to slap whoever it was making all that ruckus.

\"I'm going to pull this damn thing over if you don't settle down!\"

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TCama
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@rpm773: The pilot told the co-pilot \"I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna land the plane, I swear,\" about 10 times throughout the flight. The co-pilot thought it was an empty threat just to get the passengers to calm down.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@TCama: Heh.

It'd be funny if the pilot turned out to be a mom with young kids, wouldn't it?

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Julius Seizure
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@floraposte: It was US Airways, they don't even fly they just taxi to Heathrow.

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MostlyHarmless
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I am kind of tempted to side with the crew here.

Was there a way where the passenger could have easily with minimal effort moved the bandaged arm out of the way? If yes, then it is the passenger's fault.

I get the fact that you are injured and all, but \"I have an injury\" is not a valid reason to cause others _avoidable_ inconvenience/hazard.

Also it is for his own safety that he move the bandaged arm out of people's way, so it does not get bashed up by mistake.

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FatLynn
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: Agreed. If he needed special accommodations, it was his responsibility to arrange them in advance.

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Megalomania
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@FatLynn: it depends on how soon before the flight it happens, although I can't imagine anyone can say with a straight face that the guy wasn't being a jackass.

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RandomHookup
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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And they always drop them off in Boston. Our jails are full of airline hooligans.

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ecwis
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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It's kind of ridiculous and seriously inconvenient that he has to go to court in Boston. He's Scottish and was flying from Philadelphia.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@ecwis: It's kind of ridiculous and seriously inconvenient that he was so unruly on a flight that he needed to be kicked off.

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DangerMouth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@floraposte: Not to mention expensive and potentially dangerous to make an unscheduled stop. Airports charge huge fees to airlines using their facilities, which don't get waived because of a problem passenger. I also wonder if they had to dump the fuel before landing, as most airports don't allow airplanes full of fuel to land.

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Anathema777
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@DangerMouth: But where would they dump it between Philadelphia and Boston?

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Hawkins
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Anathema777: Actually, when airliners dump fuel, it mostly just evaporates before it hits the ground. See
[www.aerospaceweb.org]

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DangerMouth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Hawkins: Ah, thanks, I know we've circled over the water when we had to dump fuel near NYC and LA, it never occurred to me to wonder what happens inland.

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selianth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@DangerMouth: Boston isn't exactly \"inland\" anyway There's one landing pattern where you come down over water (and don't even see land till the second you hit the ground, it can be nervewracking at times) so it's probably not even an issue.

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smirkette
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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The selfishness and pig-headedness of some people takes my breath away. The only way he can have a leg to stand on is if his arm was splinted in such a way that he could not move it from the center aisle.

Still, this and hours of cripplingly uncomfortable flying could be saved if passengers weren't mistaken for sardines.

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shepd
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@smirkette:

If that's the case, he needed to buy two seats. Or, if your country makes their airlines give you an extra one for free where appropriate, request it in advance.

As an adult, you should know you can't block the aisle, and you should know you can't have your arm in someone else's seat the entire flight.

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tmed
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@shepd: Airlines don't honor a second paid empty seat. They will fill it with the overbooked passengers.


I assume there was no empty seat on this flight. If here was an empty seat and they didn't switch to make this guy sit next to it, than the flight crew was filled with idiots.

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qcgallus
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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He probably just sprained it swinging his claymore.

I would love to know the logic behind his request (and the amount of alcohol). They couldn't provide the service he wanted, so they were supposed to turn back and let him off, then head out on their merry way again?

Or maybe the flight was just supposed to go to Logan, but the pilots fell asleep and overflew it! Then they covered it up using London and some crabby foreigner as a scapegoat.

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rpm773
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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...so he demanded they turn the plane around and take him back to Philadelphia.

Hmmm. Sounds grave, like shock and dementia from the injury had set in.

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ToddMU03
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Is the news going to do a story on how he now has to pay more money for a different flight? What? He's not a whiny parent with bratty kids the runs directly to TV news? Hmm, sucks to be him.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@ToddMU03: I've yet to hear a news story about a parent that caused a disruption in flight by insisting they turn the plane around, and if the parent did, I doubt they'd get much sympathy either. Not all incidents on aircraft are the same.

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ToddMU03
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@floraposte: He was being unruly, the brat last week was unruly. Both got tossed. Same type of situation. Unruly passengers should be tossed.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@ToddMU03: I get that's how you see it. That's not how the news or other people see it, because most of us recognize that adults have different expectations and privileges than toddlers, which is why we get to drive and to buy booze--the latter of which may be relevant here. And that's why he's treated differently in the news than a crying two-year-old.

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DangerMouth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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I think it's less a matter of expecting the 4 year old to behave, than expecting the parent to maintain control of their child. In both cases, it's about the adult who should be in control.

Also, I'm pretty sure the mom with two kids wasn't booted for the crying two year old, but the running around four year old, tho continuing to make it sound as if it was about a crying baby rather than a mother unwilling or unable to reign in an out of control toddler certainly makes a better 'anti-baby-you people are clueless monsters' story.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@DangerMouth: I'm not saying it's always unreasonable to boot kids for being disruptive (I don't remember the details on the various recent incidents, so I have no recollection on who I sided with). I'm just disagreeing with Todd's implication that this situation is exactly the same. It's not, even if we pretend that grownups and children are the same.

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ToddMU03
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@floraposte: Very similar situations, not saying they're exactly the same, but in each case there was an unruly passenger. Adults failed to address the issue properly. Both should have been kicked off the flight. Neither should expect compensation.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@ToddMU03: Okay, but I think you're postulating a vastly different response to the two situation that isn't there. I don't think that the parents/kids have generally been receiving any kind of compensation. They're sometimes allowed to take a later flight when the kid calms down. Which seems fair to me.

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DangerMouth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@floraposte: I understand what you're saying, and I also don't agree with Todds assertion that the situations are identical. I was just trying to make the point that, in ALL cases it's the *adult* parent who is responsible for the child (not the child itself), just as it's the adult passenger who is responsible for his own actions.

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@DangerMouth: And on that, we are in violent agreement.

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Smashville
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: I like amateur babies.

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bwcbwc
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Smashville_Flippin the Bird Before Bud Adams: So many of the biggest babies go pro. It's a dwindling resource.

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nstonep
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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I wonder if he's from North-kilttown?

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cmdrsass
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@nstonep: Hey, *I'm* from North-kilttown! Do you know Angus McLeod?

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pot_roast
November 18, 2009 4:52 PM
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Unless the flight was absolutely full, this was something that should have been handled at the ticket counter or at the gate. I used to work for an airline (customer service/gate/ramp - we were cross trained) and we did what we could to accommodate disabled passengers (we had to) and passengers with injuries that were casted, splinted, or on crutches.

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valthun
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@pot_roast: unless he was one of those, \"I must sit in an aisle\" kind of person. He probably told everyone he was just fine, but when he refused to co-operate and follow the instructions of the flight crew he caused a serious problem. He deserves to be dropped off at the closest airport.

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tmed
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@pot_roast: Exactly. I have to assume that the flight was full.

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harrier666
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@tmed: US Air agents are pretty good. I am willing to bet he had a printed ticket and no one who was in a position to work with him ever saw his arm. If he had approached the counter to ask about the sitch, this wouldn't have happened.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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Too bad there wasn't a 60 year old man around to slap him into behaving if he didn't shut up.

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pinkbunnyslippers
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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\"Don't make me come back there, or so help me God I will turn this plane around and someone's going to feel the back of my hand on their backside!\"

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SatisfriedCrustomer
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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Have you ever been with a 49-year-old Scottish man before? It's not like you can just tell them to keep quiet. They can be fine in the airport and then all of a sudden have a meltdown in the plane and there's nothing anyone can do, even if you're the best parent in the world. The real problem is the wait on the runway before takeoff. This is hard on anybody and particularly on a 49-year-old Scottish person. I wish you all would come off your high horse because someday you might be with a 49-year-old Scottish person of your own and then you will expect other passengers to be patient with you. And you've never raised a 49-year-old Scottish person so you don't know what you are talking about.


Sorry, just amused why the detail that this person is Scottish makes any difference to the story :)

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orion70
November 23, 2009 5:31 PM
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@SatisfriedCrustomer:

ahahaha. *applause*

I just knew my 49 year old Scottish man would settle down after we got in the air and got his whiskey, just like he does every other time. Besides which, he unsettled the 51 year old Russian I also had with me who got out of his seat and started running up and down the aisle. I can't be expected to keep them BOTH under control.

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Snaptastic
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@SatisfriedCrustomer: Of course! It's not like Scottish men have on/off switches!

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@SatisfriedCrustomer: Turns out he was a Glaswegian. Now tell me that makes no difference :-). (And at 49, an elderly Glaswegian.)

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tmed
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@SatisfriedCrustomer: It isn't said to provide an excuse or reason, it is offering information. If he was from the states, we would have gotten to find out which state. It is a detail that allows your mind's eye to fill in the proper swear words when picturing the scene.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@SatisfriedCrustomer: I know, right? And you can't give 'em whiskey to calm them down; it only makes them even more unruly!

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dieselbug
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: Damn right it makes us unruly! We drink Whisky. Note there is no 'e' in it . . . . . .

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vastrightwing
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@SatisfriedCrustomer: Remember, Scottish people should be seen and not heard!

Anyone who is out of control should be removed... me included!

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floraposte
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@SatisfriedCrustomer: Don't they generally say what country somebody's from if it's not here?

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Anne Boleyn
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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NOW THAT'S THINKIN' WITH YER DIPSTICK, JIMMY!

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katia802
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Anne Boleyn: Had to heart you for that one, all the time I was reading the article that guy's face was in my mind.

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Smashville
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Trai_Dep: Where's that one been, anyway?

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scoosdad
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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From the linked article in the Boston Herald (caption under the guy's photo):

John Alexander Murray, of Glasgow, was charged with being an unruly passenger shortly after US Airways Flight 728 landed at around 11 p.m last night. He said today, through his court appointed lawyer, that he needed a window seat to stretch out his injure{d arm-- text missing from caption}.

If this is accurate, it sounds as if the airline assigned him an aisle seat when he wanted a window seat instead. So maybe he was making an ass of himself in the aisle seat to punish the flight crew for his seat assignment.

And here he is:

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bwcbwc
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@scoosdad: And window vs. aisle is bullshit. If his injury's on his right arm, just put him in an aisle on the left side of the plane instead of the right. Then he can stretch his arm into the aisle. Way more room than at the window.

Dude just wanted a window seat.

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David in Brasil
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@scoosdad: I wonder if he gets his window seat in jail?

Maybe his new Significant Other will help him with that...

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davidc
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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In the picture, his arm is bent and fairly close to his body. He could have / should have been able to shift in his seat to allow the cart to go by.

Bottomline? I hope they charge him the fuel cost to land the plane and take off again.

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IfThenElvis
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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Scottish? Maybe he was being completely reasonable but there wasn't a translator on board.

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katstermonster
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Smashville_Flippin the Bird Before Bud Adams: That one started this thread. New name. For reals.

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Naame
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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It sounds like the passenger took the situation too far, but I do question whether or not the flight crew was capable of working out a compromise which would have made everyone satisfied. In situations like these, you always got his side, her side, and the truth.

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DangerMouth
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Naame: Agree, but I think the lesson here is that, generally speaking, if you've reached the point of getting hauled away in chains for making a ruckus, you've lost your right as consumer to legitimate complaints and expectations of reasonable accomodation.

Getting angry and assertive can work in a lot of situations, but on an airplane, you do not want to be seen as out of control.

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katstermonster
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: I do what I can.

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katstermonster
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@Traveshamockery: Um, a child with an ear infection is a serious matter. And is impossible to quiet. So good luck with that.

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harrier666
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@katstermonster: A child with an ear infection should be no where near an aircraft. It can, and has, caused serious long lasting damage. A good parent should never risk their children in this way.

I had an ear infection recently and had to sick out on a flight (airline pilot). They tested me and didn't let me fly for 3 days. I was stuck in a hotel for 3 days because the airline I work for wasn't about to risk my ears. I appreciated it, though a hotel when sick is no fun.

Don't blame the ear infection for your kid's behavior on a flight. The kid should NOT be on that flight.

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TCama
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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This sounds like something The Onion would write ...

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Hogan1
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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If his arm was in a cast and extended, he was probably blocking the aisle which is an FAA Safety violation and the Airline is forced to act. If there were no open seats, their ONLY option would have been to ask him to position himself in a way as so move the limb out of the aisle. If he had an issue with this he *should* have had the common sense to let the Airline know his situation beforehand.


Airline acted in the right; this guy was just an idiot.

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khfurletti
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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Don't make me pull this plane over! LOL

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Superawesomerad
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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So, was he drunk?

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eaglearcher
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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Looks like he can bend his arm just fine.

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Smashville
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@katstermonster: @MostlyHarmless: It all makes so much sense to me now.

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AngryK9
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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That pilot must have been a school bus driver in a past life.


\"Don't make me pull this plane over little mister!\" *fistshake*

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bwcbwc
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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Man. So much hate here between the childless and the child-burdened.

I suggest future threads in this vein be subject to mass disemvoweling. All of the arguments have been made and there are folks on both sides that have their emotions so tied in that they just aren't listening and are being abusive.

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gtrgod01
November 18, 2009 4:53 PM
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@bwcbwc: You have to admit that the \"childless\" are usually the ones to start the argument. They're young and lack direct experience with the subject, other than witnessing from afar and making a split second decision on the abilities of parents (or their big claim to experience is the \"i have a big family\" lol, yet they seem to all know how the situation should be handled.

It's irritating to those who have children because they are being judged by people who DO NOT understand how children work....you can't turn them off, you can't drug them, you can't beat them....although those seem to be popular suggestions of handling \"irritating\" situations from the childless it just proves they don't \"get\" it.

....for the record, I don't have kids...i'm just not an ass hat that thinks I know everything or thinks i'm entitled to some fictitious set of \"rights\" guaranteeing never to be irritated by others.

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Mitogenesis
January 18, 2010 1:03 PM
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Why pull over.....\"if you dont behave, I'm gonna drop you out this door right here and you can fly yer self\".


May the 49 Scottish guy can do a \"fly me I'm Scottish\" commercial

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