May the 49 Scottish guy can do a "fly me I'm Scottish" commercial

ahahaha. *applause*

I just knew my 49 year old Scottish man would settle down after we got in the air and got his whiskey, just like he does every other time. Besides which, he unsettled the 51 year old Russian I also had with me who got out of his seat and started running up and down the aisle. I can't be expected to keep them BOTH under control.

The pilot pretended not to notice and, upon disembarking, he gallantly offered his assistance to help with the various baby-related items.

When the young mother expressed her gratitude, the pilot responded, "Gosh, that's a good looking baby...and he sure was hungry!"

Somewhat embarrassed, the mother explained that her pediatrician said that the time spent on the breast would help alleviate the pressure in the baby's ears.

The Air Force Pilot sadly shook his head, and in true pilot fashion exclaimed, "And all these years, I've been chewing gum."@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather:

I had an ear infection recently and had to sick out on a flight (airline pilot). They tested me and didn't let me fly for 3 days. I was stuck in a hotel for 3 days because the airline I work for wasn't about to risk my ears. I appreciated it, though a hotel when sick is no fun.

Don't blame the ear infection for your kid's behavior on a flight. The kid should NOT be on that flight.

It's irritating to those who have children because they are being judged by people who DO NOT understand how children work....you can't turn them off, you can't drug them, you can't beat them....although those seem to be popular suggestions of handling "irritating" situations from the childless it just proves they don't "get" it.

....for the record, I don't have kids...i'm just not an ass hat that thinks I know everything or thinks i'm entitled to some fictitious set of "rights" guaranteeing never to be irritated by others.

I suggest future threads in this vein be subject to mass disemvoweling. All of the arguments have been made and there are folks on both sides that have their emotions so tied in that they just aren't listening and are being abusive.

Apparently "they" think that simply buying a plane ticket entitles them to sleep, absolute silence and purified air (ie...no dirty diapers).

All their comments do is show how young and inexperienced in "real" life they really are....They seem to think they are entitled to everything at the expense of others all while saying "you don't have that right at MY expense". They are all hypocritical ass hats who need to grow up....

The more they post, the more you can tell it's not just kids they hate, it's anything/anytime they don't get what they want or feel they deserve or are "entitled" to by some fictitious set of "rights" that simply don't exist anywhere but in their warped, detached from reality minds....

Dude just wanted a window seat.

Better take some yourself, though. Otherwise you'll be zoning out in bed at your destination while the kids'll be bouncing off the walls.

@littlemisslondon: My childhood upbringing was a lot like some others have said here; I grew up in fear of the wooden spoon, and turned out just fine.

Personally, I don't hit my 3 year old. But when they get to be 2 or 3 years old there isn't too much of an excuse, I think. I haven't taken my kid on a plane, but I've had him in public situations where he's been upset. All I have to do is look into his eyes and talk with my deep, low, "I mean business now" voice and he gets the point. I've never hit him, just used timeouts and grounding. Works well enough.

If more people would realize this, I think the world would be a better place.

@s73v3r: Tell you what. If you and I are ever on a flight together, and my kid is old enough to understand the word "no" and that she should behave, and she starts misbehaving and yelling/screaming at you, I will personally buy you a pair of noise-cancelling headphones out of the fucking Skymall catalogue.

There needs to be a distinction made between "tantrums" and "really, really young kids crying". If your 3-year-old won't stop throwing stuff, then fucking make them stop. But very young babies sometimes cry. That's just what they do. And unless you think they, and therefore their parents, have no right to be anywhere public, you may need to occasionally deal with a crying kid. Suck it up and be a mensch.

(Caveat: I don't think very young infants belong on airplanes in general, but in an emergency it's sometimes unavoidable.)

@Traveshamockery: No one's suggesting you enjoy an infant's cries. My kid isn't perfect. But she is under 3 months old. Would you tell your sister, or your mom, or a woman you care about (if there are any), that she should never leave the house with her child until it's old enough never to cry?

@AK47: My kid is currently 2.5 months old (and no, I'm not planning on taking her on an airplane anytime soon). If a 2.5 month old kid cries, I can try to calm her down, but if she starts crying in line at the grocery store and nothing I'm doing is calming her down, I'm sorry to say that I'm more likely to let the people around me endure her crying for 5 minutes so I can buy my groceries rather than abandon the cart.

@tackett: Yeah, I guess you're right. Sigh.

Ya see, long ago, most kids were well behaved because their parents made it happen. A crying kid on a bus, or a plane, or at the grocery store wasn't very common, and people accepted it.

Now, every kid can do no wrong, as long as his/her self-esteem is high. Now, crying kids are *everywhere* and most of the people around you are really tired of it.

You might be the best parent in the world, and keep your kids under control in public most of the time. However, the vast majority of Americans simply don't. The rest of us are tired of it.

So yeah, we probably go overboard sometimes, and want to remove kids from airplanes. If it was an uncommon occurrence, people wouldn't care.

The rest of the country messed it up for you.

That pilot must have been a school bus driver in a past life.

"Don't make me pull this plane over little mister!" *fistshake*

@KristinaBeana: Same with me as a kid and my younger boy (stuff knocks out my older boy faster than a mallet). Also, you can't always count on medications having a consistant reaction in a child. He / she may be sedated once and hyper the next.

I'm not saying not to dose your kid before flying - it can be really effective and it's pretty safe, but don't rely on it too heavily.

@littlemisslondon: Huge difference between "my kid's upset and is crying, but I will act like a reasonable parent and do what needs to be done to calm him/her down" versus "I will ignore this raging tantrum because my kid's allowed to cry and scream and wail to the point where everyone in this confined little plane wants to light them on fire and put them out with a screwdriver. Hey, kids will be kids."

If you fall into the second camp, then please do stay home for the next 5-6 years, because I find you fucking ridiculous.

@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: Why don't you go beat your kids or something, deadbeat. That's the kind of response you were looking for with that trolling comment, right? Well...there you go.

@katstermonster: @MostlyHarmless: It all makes so much sense to me now.

Getting angry and assertive can work in a lot of situations, but on an airplane, you do not want to be seen as out of control.

Maybe his new Significant Other will help him with that...

It'd be funny if the pilot turned out to be a mom with young kids, wouldn't it?

The Herald article says this guy was asked to move his arm out of the way for the beverage cart and refused. That's just plain rude. Flying can be a really frustrating experience, but what did he really think that would accomplish?

@sicknick: I didn't fly when I was a child (my first flight was when I was 17), but growing up we feared my mom and not my dad. Mom would have no qualms about smacking us on the backside (of course, if we twisted & shouted, the smack might hit us elsewhere) and it didn't matter if we were outdoors or at home. And if we were home, yeah, the wooden spoon could be used. Dad, well, he was afraid he'd lose control and really go off on us, so his threats about hitting us were just that.

Fortunately, the 4 of us boys turned out ok (actually, let's just say 3 out of 4 did - my youngest brother is not what I'd call any sort of angel).

I think it all comes back to kids being taught boundaries and parents enforcing them. Yes, a 2-year-old is probably not going to truly understand it all, but I imagine that as they get older they should be able to. (I say I imagine, as I am not a parent, so I don't know the exact time when a child starts to be able to understand the rules of flying).

Ruling by fear is not a good thing. It teaches children that the way to be in control is to be able to instill fear. That means when the kids become older teenagers, they may turn on their parents, if they've actually learned the fear lesson correctly.

Incidentally, this goes for citizens of most countries, too.

@sicknick: We are discussing radically different situations. A department store is not a plane. Planes pose a myriad of special circumstances that result in some epic meltdowns by kids. Once again I am talking about kids under 5, after that, barring developmental troubles, even a bad emotional fit should be under control pretty quickly and the kid should be aware enough of the community to try to behave themselves.

I disagree fully that a kid should fear physical pain from a parent. There should be respect for a parent and respect for parents' authority coupled with a desire to behave well. I was spanked and whipped with a belt as a kid, and I never stopped doing sh*t and hiding it from my parents.

With my own boys, they were never allowed to misbehave in public and if they did, we would be out of public quickly and learning just how much control they have in their life and how quickly it can be taken away.

This is not to start a fight, I know people who used corporal punishment effectively, it was simply not for me.

If his arm was in a cast and extended, he was probably blocking the aisle which is an FAA Safety violation and the Airline is forced to act. If there were no open seats, their ONLY option would have been to ask him to position himself in a way as so move the limb out of the aisle. If he had an issue with this he *should* have had the common sense to let the Airline know his situation beforehand.

Airline acted in the right; this guy was just an idiot.

I have no objection to doctor-approved medicating of kids, on planes or elsewhere, but I do think that one other difference between then and now is that the entitlement obsession goes across the board--people mistakenly feel entitled to exist without ever being touched by another person, exposed to another person's smell, or hearing another person, and that's as much a self-indulgence as parents who feel that their children are entitled to do whatever they want.

@katstermonster: Again, from my childhood, my mother was directed by her pediatrician to add 1-2 tsp of whiskey to my formula when teething. A 2 yr old can be given the same to knock them out so they aren't A) in pain or B) or a bother to others.

I have sinus issues and I self medicate in a variety of ways before getting on a flight. Xanax, booze, dramamene, etc. It's just cruel to let a kid cry for hours, also disturbing those around you in a cramped/shared space, instead of knocking them out.

@DH405: That is absolute crap. The kid (again - under 5) has the right because at some point - he / she does not have the ability to stop. The parent who has the kid in the middle of the meltdown does not have the right to be belligerant, but that does not give the general public the right or the justification to treat the parent like anyone except someone in the middle of an unfortuante situation and offer aid as appropriate. If the parent is not apologetic, concerned, and embarassed already, than you are not going to be able to help the situation and those with the authority to do so (the flight crew in this case) should fix the situation. You have no right to pile on someone in the situation.

You have no inalienable right to a hassle-free existance. If you simply choose to be a d*ck who does not care about another person's circumstance, than stay the at home. Sometimes people have to fly with kids in the modern world. Sometimes that goes badly.

Once again, adults should get booted off the plane and arrested in Boston.

If he was polite, they would have tried their hardest to accommodate his injury... I've had some awful airline service, and really nasty FAs and gate agents, but I've never see someone with an injury *not* be accommodated if they were polite.

Usually they don't make passengers do it themselves, though, and certainly the unattended minor fee attempt is a new one for me. Ballsy!

They moved my boyfriend back several rows, and had me squished between two guys. Luckily my bf convinced the woman beside him to switch somehow.

I'm thankful, since the flight was over five hours long.

@Traveshamockery:

"SHE HAS AN EAR INFECTION!"

I have a leatherman - bring her to me...

@Saboth:

"what else is a breeder to do?"

Nyquilada...

@Traveshamockery: Um, a child with an ear infection is a serious matter. And is impossible to quiet. So good luck with that.

@MostlyHarmless: I do what I can.

@sicknick: You're absolutely right - children who are misbehaving for the sake of misbehaving should be dealt with. I'm 22, and I'm still terrified of The Look, as I should be.

However - there are extenuating circumstances. Hypothetical: a 2-year-old has an ear infection and has to fly. Or heck, a 2-year-old with sensitive ears has to fly. I have sensitive ears, it's miserable. I've cried while flying before from the pain. The 2-year-old isn't crying and screaming because he or she is a bad child, but because he or she is in intense pain. There's only so much you can do to quiet the child. Yeah, it's miserable for everyone else, but what are you really going to do?

(didnt you notice a trend?)

@Smashville_Flippin the Bird Before Bud Adams: That one started this thread. New name. For reals.

@tmed: Not trying to cause a flame war, just a discussion here:

I agree that children should not be held to the levels of adults to a point, but where are the adults who are watching that child to be made responsible for unruly kids? Yes, kids act out, but that doesn't make it a right or correct for them to be allowed to.

Point of fact, as a young kid, we were in a department store (Hudson's! I'm showing my age here) and I was playing in the clothing racks like they were my own private fort. I was told by my Mom to stop. I didn't, and she grabbed me by the arm and asked a store clerk where the bathroom was. She took me in and beat my ass. Needless to say, I stopped hiding in the clothing racks.

I feared my mother, as all children should fear their parents. She could give me an evil look most times or speak in That Tone and I was picture perfect. When I wasn't, I got the wooden spoon or her hand. Why can't we hold all parents to these standards, since we'd cut down greatly (there is no way to erradicate it) on unruly children in public.

Again, not trying to start a fight (since there is no easy answer to this fight) but I'm just posing a thought.

MY LITTLE ANGEL IS PERFECT AND YOU WILL ENJOY HER CRIES! HOW DARE YOU LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT!? SHE HAS AN EAR INFECTION!

That's fucking ridiculous. Put on some noice-cancelling headphones and be a mensch.

Anyone who is out of control should be removed... me included!

Bottomline? I hope they charge him the fuel cost to land the plane and take off again.

John Alexander Murray, of Glasgow, was charged with being an unruly passenger shortly after US Airways Flight 728 landed at around 11 p.m last night. He said today, through his court appointed lawyer, that he needed a window seat to stretch out his injure{d arm-- text missing from caption}.

If this is accurate, it sounds as if the airline assigned him an aisle seat when he wanted a window seat instead. So maybe he was making an ass of himself in the aisle seat to punish the flight crew for his seat assignment.

And here he is:

Also, I'm pretty sure the mom with two kids wasn't booted for the crying two year old, but the running around four year old, tho continuing to make it sound as if it was about a crying baby rather than a mother unwilling or unable to reign in an out of control toddler certainly makes a better 'anti-baby-you people are clueless monsters' story.

"Look, kids will be bad. What can I do about it? I don't have a corner to send them to for a 30 second time-out, and aside from useless time outs and ignoring the problem, what else is a breeder to do?"

@Anne Boleyn: Had to heart you for that one, all the time I was reading the article that guy's face was in my mind.

@Trai_Dep: Where's that one been, anyway?

@SatisfriedCrustomer: It isn't said to provide an excuse or reason, it is offering information. If he was from the states, we would have gotten to find out which state. It is a detail that allows your mind's eye to fill in the proper swear words when picturing the scene.

@pot_roast: Exactly. I have to assume that the flight was full.

@shepd: Airlines don't honor a second paid empty seat. They will fill it with the overbooked passengers.

I assume there was no empty seat on this flight. If here was an empty seat and they didn't switch to make this guy sit next to it, than the flight crew was filled with idiots.

I flew 100k miles a years for many years, and saw all tyoes of entitled, bratty passengers. I got many upgrades at the last minute, both paid and free, and one thing you learned playing the game was that gate agents have an extrordinary amount of discretion as to upgrades and it paid to be really, really nice to them.

Being moved up a cabin after you were already on the plane was much more rare, though it did happen opccasionally.

@Dondegroovily: Can't fly then. If first-class wasn't full, they shuld have just upgraded him. It sounds like it really wasn't comfortable for the passenger. Pilot clearly made the right call.

Last year, I bought tickets on Delta about 10 months in advance. Knowing the flight schedules would likely change several times, I checked my itinerary weekly. Sure enough, changes were made automatically to accommodate the schedule changes. I recall having to change the seats too. After one "automatic" schedule change, they stupidly had us landing in Atlanta after our connecting flight had already departed.

@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: That's me - I am much happier seeing adults kicked off than kids under 5.

I have seen the best behaved kids stress out and break down and holding them to an adult standard is ridiculous. Holding adults to that standard, naturally, is not.

Have you ever been with a 49-year-old Scottish man before? It's not like you can just tell them to keep quiet. They can be fine in the airport and then all of a sudden have a meltdown in the plane and there's nothing anyone can do, even if you're the best parent in the world. The real problem is the wait on the runway before takeoff. This is hard on anybody and particularly on a 49-year-old Scottish person. I wish you all would come off your high horse because someday you might be with a 49-year-old Scottish person of your own and then you will expect other passengers to be patient with you. And you've never raised a 49-year-old Scottish person so you don't know what you are talking about.

Sorry, just amused why the detail that this person is Scottish makes any difference to the story :)

"Don't make me come back there, or so help me God I will turn this plane around and someone's going to feel the back of my hand on their backside!"

I think they were about eight at the time. It would have been a long walk back to CT.

If that's the case, he needed to buy two seats. Or, if your country makes their airlines give you an extra one for free where appropriate, request it in advance.

As an adult, you should know you can't block the aisle, and you should know you can't have your arm in someone else's seat the entire flight.

antidisinfantarianism?

@FatLynn: He very well could have made arrangements in advance. I travel with my son on a regular basis and there have been at least 3 occassions when our seats were changed despite booking months in advance. In one case, they moved our seats 8 rows apart even though he was 2 years old at the time. The ticketing and gate agents refused to change our seats and the gate agent even attempted to add an un-attended minor fee to my sons ticket. In the end, we had to walk around the gate asking people to switch seats.

Also, was he injured when he purchased the ticket? If not, we can't really expect him to know the future.

@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: I like amateur babies.

"I'm going to pull this damn thing over if you don't settle down!"

@Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather: Is there such a thing as an "anti-baby lover"?

Hmmm. Sounds grave, like shock and dementia from the injury had set in.

I would love to know the logic behind his request (and the amount of alcohol). They couldn't provide the service he wanted, so they were supposed to turn back and let him off, then head out on their merry way again?

Or maybe the flight was just supposed to go to Logan, but the pilots fell asleep and overflew it! Then they covered it up using London and some crabby foreigner as a scapegoat.

Still, this and hours of cripplingly uncomfortable flying could be saved if passengers weren't mistaken for sardines.

And they always drop them off in Boston. Our jails are full of airline hooligans.

Or something like that.

Not that I buy that excuse myself. Just that someone will, no doubt, offer it.

Was there a way where the passenger could have easily with minimal effort moved the bandaged arm out of the way? If yes, then it is the passenger's fault.

I get the fact that you are injured and all, but "I have an injury" is not a valid reason to cause others _avoidable_ inconvenience/hazard.

Also it is for his own safety that he move the bandaged arm out of people's way, so it does not get bashed up by mistake.

What's much more likely is that he was in pain (and pissed off about the injury) and refused to comply because like most people he hates air travel.

Good for the Pilot, not ruining the entire trip, but the several hours of delay probably weren't welcome for the rest of the plane. They should be able to sue the passenger for their damages.