var json_comments = new Array("
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ScubaSteveKzoo
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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These people should be ashamed for not knowing that she lip-syncs. Seriously? Does it matter anyways? Would they rather she huff and puff through the songs?

I see rock shows because of the live sound, but I don't expect it to sound exactly like an album. These people apparently can't tell the difference.

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anduin1
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@ScubaSteveKzoo:
I've been to concerts where it sounded as good as if not better than CD versions. I mean the AC/DC concert I went to was probably the best I've ever seen, could literally feel the music.

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Keavy_Rain
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@ScubaSteveKzoo: Clearly you've never been to a Rush show. It simply amazes me how much the live performance sounds like a live performance of the album.

The band has said, on numerous occasions, that they strive to make their live show as accurate as possible to the album's recording. They do use pre-recorded sounds and such to fill in for instruments and people not on stage, but the band members themselves sing their songs and play their instruments.

Long story short, its totally possible for a band to accurately recreate their album experience live without lip syncing, but clearly that's too much to ask of some artists and I do honestly feel that those artists should let their fans know that they're not willing or able to actually perform on stage.

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Dawnrazor
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Keavy_Rain: Yeah, but Rush are MUSICIANS and consummate professionals.


Britney Spears, Black-eyed Peas, Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, et al. are NOT primarily \"musicians\". They are better defined as \"performers\" whose intent is not to provide a pure musical experience but rather to put on a good \"show\". For these performers, music is almost an afterthought, more like aural wallpaper to provide a backdrop for the dancing and stage show than pure art in and of itself. Therefore lip-synching is probably a lesser \"sin\" for this type of performer than it would be for a true band (whose main purpose is to create music) such as Rush or Porcupine Tree. (Sorry, can't help but name-drop my favorite musical discovery of the past 15 years! Any fan of Rush, Floyd, Radiohead, or any other heavier Prog act is highly encouraged to check them out!)

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RogerTheAlien
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Dawnrazor: Wait, wait, wait...why'd you go and hafta drag BEP into this? What'd they ever do to you?

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hi
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Keavy_Rain: A lot of bands sound simular to their albums but to expect britney spears not to lip sync is like asking the wind not to blow.

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FreeShaggy
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I'm pretty sure that Spears has already made it public that she lip syncs for her concerts.

Something about being unable to dance and sing at the same time, too much demand on the body.

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anduin1
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@FreeShaggy:
if she's going to lip synch, shouldn't she charge less then? She's not singing, she's just dancing and call me crazy but I wouldn't go to a MUSIC ACTS concert to watch them dance...

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SJActress
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@FreeShaggy: Even if she were sitting still, there's no equipment to make her sound like she has any singing talent.

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H3ion
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@FreeShaggy: I think in her case, walking and chewing gum at the same time is too much strain. Also in her case, the sound is modified to studio standards, a standard she can't possibly meet in a live performance. At least U2 is live.

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deejmer
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@FreeShaggy: Um.....i think the deficit has less to do with the dancing and more to do with the fact she is an untalented hack who cannot sing in tune.

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Blueskylaw
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@FreeShaggy:


How did singers ever become stars in the days before lip-syncing?


Next crazy thing you'll hear is that baseball players can't hit and run around bases without using steroids because it's too stressful on the body.

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Blueskylaw: Go back and watch an old episode of American Bandstand. Note how there are backup singers and a band playing...when no one is on the stage but the singer.


In the era of pop-music, there weren't days before lip-synching.

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@FreeShaggy: Basically, it's hard to sing and do cardio at the same time. As lame as it initially sounds, it actually makes sense.

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Dawnrazor
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Smashville_now with Monster Energy: What about people like James Brown, Little Richard, Mick Jagger, Iggy Pop, or Steven Tyler? Those guys go nuts on stage, almost certainly qualifying as \"cardio\", yet still manage to sing (and often play instruments as well) for themselves without collapsing.


Heck, Jerry Lee Lewis makes me feel like I've had a cardio workout just WATCHING him! I bet he would rather chop off his own fingers than \"play\" along with some synchronized piano/vocal track!

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ohenry
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Dawnrazor: Agreed. To add my own experience to this, I just saw Trans Siberian Orchestra this weekend, and HOLY CRAP were they amazing. And there wasn't any lip synching there. They play instruments/since/dance all over and sound incredible doing it.

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philipbarrett
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Smashville_now with Monster Energy: Yeah, that's why all those Broadway shows are lip synced too!

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Coles_Law
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@philipbarrett: not trying to defend Brittany Spears here, but most Broadway dance numbers have a couple dozen singers. When it's a solo act, the performer is usually still or walking.

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FaustianSlip
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Coles_Law: Usually, but not always. In Boy From Oz, Hugh Jackman was doing nearly all the heavy lifting in terms of singing and dancing, and he did both without needing to resort to lip synching (and on a broken foot toward the end of the run). While I can understand that it's difficult for someone to do non-stop, high-energy dancing and singing for a two-hour concert, isn't that where building a good set list and intermissions come into play? And more to the point, isn't the fact that it's difficult and not everyone can do it pretty much the justification for charging hundreds of bucks for concert tickets?

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TheWillow
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Coles_Law: This. Otherwise having a show called \"A Chorus Line\" probably wouldn't make a ton of sense.

There's a reason why Angel's table jump in Rent isn't during the middle of a line, y'know.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@philipbarrett: This has been an industry practice for quite some time. It's why Milli Vanilli wasn't immediately outed as frauds when their vocal track began to skip during a live performance.

Although the fact that broadway actors can pull it off means they are either more talented, or their dance numbers are not as high energy.

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philipbarrett
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: More talented or just talented? Plus they perform 7 shows a week.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@philipbarrett: Indeed. I'm not sure why actors in musicals can do something that pop singers are apparently unable to. Coming from a theater background, this perplexes me.

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Trai_Dep
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: There are some decent pop singers that don't lip sync.
Jessica, Brittney and this ilk aren't them, obviously.

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Batwaffel
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@FreeShaggy: Yet people like Michael Jackson did it so well without lip-syncing.

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supercereal
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Batwaffel: Frankly, he ran circles around anyone in terms of dance and choreography, yet still managed to sound pretty much perfect. I have no idea how he managed that.

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Batwaffel
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@philipbarrett: Amazingly, most actually are not. Look for the little dots taped on their foreheads. Those are the microphones.

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hotdogsunrise
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Smashville_now with Monster Energy: Not only that, but I saw her once when she first came on the scene. (insert lame story about accompanying younger sibling here)


She actually did sing some of her songs. She would stand or sit, and sing. And it was HORRIBLE. I don't know what key she was trying to sing in, but it wasn't the key of the songs.


It's probably a much better show now that she sings none of it live.

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chuckv
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Going to a concert like this is akin to being a 10 year old on Christmas morning. You know in your heart of hearts that it's more likely than not lip synced, but being constantly reminded of that fact will probably diminish your enjoyment of the moment.

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pegr
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@chuckv:


I saw David Bowie sing \"Fame\" live on the Sonny and Cher show and felt ripped-off when he didn't sing that falling pitch \"Fame, Fame, Fame\" bit. At least he didn't fake lip syncing it.


I guess Brittany Spears just doesn't measure up to David Bowie.


dead-pan like Steven Wright!
get off my lawn!

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dadelus
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@chuckv: I was thinking it's more like going to a WWE event and complaining cause the fights are fixed.

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Quake 'n' Shake
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Really, the concert promoter's disclaimer ought to read:
\"WARNING: You are spending your hard earned money to see Brittany Spears. A reevaluation of your priorities is likely in order\"

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starrion
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Quake 'n' Shake:
Oh yeah:


You are ordering Rolling Stones Tour tickets.


WARNING: OLD. Singing and dancing on stage may be limited and/or bad due to performers advanced age.

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Quake 'n' Shake
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@starrion: There was a time when I would have gladly paid a premium to see the Stones in concert.
That time was 1978, and it's long gone baby.

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Quake 'n' Shake: These people pay money to see cricket. Brit-Brit's a step up.

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MostlyHarmless
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Smashville_now with Monster Energy: THE HELL?? You take those words RIGHT BACK or I'm unhearting you FOR EVER!!!.

How could you say something like that?? Please tell me you dont mean it... please?

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: I have nothing against cricket...twas just meant for the funnies.

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: As a hockey fan, I know how crazy people get when people insult hockey...so I wasn't exactly sure we were playing...

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Quake 'n' Shake
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: @Smashville_now with Monster Energy:
Not for nothing gentlemen, but I'm reading your comments as though they are to be spoken with a pompous English accent.

Thanks for the chuckles! Cheerio.

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MostlyHarmless
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Quake 'n' Shake: Or you could imagine mine being spoken in an Indian accent. Twice the funny. At least according to @katstermonster.

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: And mine in a slow Canadian accent. I'm not Canadian, but I think that'd be funny.

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magic8ball
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Smashville_now with Monster Energy: I'm reading them with any imaginary French accent. Pure comedy gold.

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TheWillow
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@ScubaSteveKzoo: Exactly - Next thing they will be asking for disclaimers on Pro Wrestling: WARNING, they're not actually hitting each other in the face with a ladder as hard as they can...

Or signs at the mall in April: You know what? there is no easter bunny! That guy over there is just a guy in a suit!

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I think if you go to any sort of pop show and expect someone to actually be singing or not fooling around with voice modulation...you're kidding yourself.


About 10 years ago, I took my sister to see N-Sync. They had voice modulation on Justin that was so high, it made him sound like he had inhaled an entire helium tank.

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TheWillow
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@H3ion: Yeah, he just has a teleprompter.

Also, his vocal range is 5 notes.

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H3ion
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@TheWillow: That's actually pretty impressive when you understand that he can't read.
Puts on a hell of a show though.

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VioletPheonix
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@H3ion: What's not being able to read have to do with vocal range?

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H3ion
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@VioletPheonix: Nothing, but reading a teleprompter is kinda tough.

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whysthsncnsmrst
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I don't see why this matters. It is more of a \"show\" and I don't see how her vocals could not be winded during dance routines. I think more people would be pissed to hear her gasping for air mid-song.

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Sanspants
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@whysthsncnsmrst: That's what I don't understand I guess. I listen to a band's album then I see them live because (usually) the live show is more energetic, you get to sing along, maybe get the mic in your face for a singalong part. But what's the fun in watching a live music video? They're selling the act more than the music.


I guess I shouldn't be surprised with this, but I still don't get it.

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aliminx
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@whysthsncnsmrst: I'd be more upset hearing how she sings without computer help. She sounds like crap - I've heard her demos. She barely dances - unless you consider walking around a stage \"dancing\".

She lip synchs because her voice is poor.

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GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Do you also hold it against artists that use a tele-prompter?

She actually sang the song, just in a studio. I mean, I'm nowhere near as in shape as she is, but you can't expect me to bounce around the stage and NOT be out of breath, which would make the singing bad.

Now if it was someone sitting on a stool lip-syncing, that would be different, but she is putting on a show which is trying to satisfy more than just your sense of hearing.

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H3ion
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn: Would you pay $100 a ticket to watch someone stand on stage while their CD's played through the sound system? Unfortunately for Britney, I think her dancing also sucks and we already know she can't act, but she's a hell of a mom.

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diasdiem
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@H3ion: Or how would you feel about attending an exhibition of a certain artist, only to find that it's nothing but prints and reproductions?

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H3ion
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@diasdiem: That's a good point. Would you go to a Rembrandt exhibit where everything hanging on the wall was a poster. I guess the issue is that if the gallery advertised that the exhibition was posters, I could make up my own mind to go or not. With a music performance, I expect to hear the singer(s) perform. If I wanted to just listen to their CDs, I could buy them.

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theothered
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@H3ion:


To carry this analogy just slightly further, what if you paid to see a live performance and the artist just played a video of a previous performance. Wouldn't you feel that you had been scammed?


Using an audio recording or a video recording of another performance without disclosure that this is what you will receive at the \"live\" performance, you are ripping off the ticket purchasers.

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rooben
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn:


I beg to differ that she actually sang the song in the studio. Yes, maybe sound came out of her mouth, but most of it was studio engineering.


In any case, its still beside the point - any person who proposes that they are a singer, should be able to sing. Live. If they aren't, then we're talking about performance art, now, not a concert. That fact should be disclosed.

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logicalnoise
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn: I'd imagine that britney \"sings\" a couple slow songs which would demand she not move around as much.

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn: Which is what the huge deal was with Ashlee Simpson. She was essentially just standing there. And of course, when she actually sang at the Orange Bowl...yeah...that wasn't good.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Smashville_now with Monster Energy: My favorite part about that fiasco was when she awkwardly tried to blame the band at the closing credits. Stay classy, Ashlee.

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GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: My favorite part was the impromptu \"jig/ho-down\" she did before bolting.

@rooben: So the reason most artists are popular is they release songs NOT done in a studio? She CAN sing. Like I said, when she's dancing in addition, though, you can't expect the theatrics to NOT bring down the quality of her singing. She's concentrating on the choreography, in addition to running around, which unless you are an olympic athlete, will leave you breathing heavy.

@H3ion: Depending on the act, no. But while I expect when Weird Al is walking up and down the stage to actually sing while playing his accordion, if he's doing somersaults, I could understand then bleeding in to cover until he's back. I will guarantee that there is a trained audio tech who is getting someone like Brit's feed directly into his ear and fades her in and out depending on how out of breath/voicing jumping as she jumps around is.

@H3ion: BIG difference. I agree if it's a Bill Shatner on stage sitting on a stool lip syncing, then no, I wouldn't be satisfied. He's not exerting himself or giving my other senses a performance as well.

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donopolis
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn:
Sorry, I call bunk pure and simple.
I have seen pop concerts, and broadway shows by the truckload that were in no way sedate and standing still. The artists involved always managed to perform to my expectations with out disappointing.

A \"live\" concert predicates a \"Live\" performance...if you are spending that much cash on a show you should get a true performance, or at least be told that you are paying to see Brittany dance. I have paid to go to the ballet before and have no problem with it.

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secret_curse
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: Yeah, didn't she say they started playing the wrong song? What're the odds on 4 or 5 dudes all starting to play the same wrong song at the same time? Hrmm...

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TheWillow
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I went to see Nsync once (I don't care what you say, it wasn't creepy at all that 14 year old me wanted to marry a 30 year old in a boyband) and they had a song where they were bouncing off of trampolines onto a velcro wall while singing without interruption.

It's common sense. It's not rocket surgery.

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magic8ball
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@TheWillow: Really? Because that actually sounds like it was kind of funny.

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TheWillow
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@magic8ball: yes. It was for the song \"Up Against the Wall\" which was clearly about velcro suits and trampolines, and not at all about obscene dancing in a club.

They also rode mechanical bulls for \"Space Cowboy.\" It was actually fun, if you're looking for ridiculous entertainment and not music. Which, sometimes, I am.

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iammoses
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@TheWillow:
What is this \"common sense\" you speak of?

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phate
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@TheWillow: I need 20ccs of A-1 Stat! Come on people this baby isn't going to the moon unless we can get that coolant leak plugged.

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pecan 3.14159265
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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IMO, it really depends. To most people, it's probably common knowledge that she lip syncs. But some people may genuinely not realize that this is what happens in a live concert setting. I can see if grandma knew Sally liked Britney Spears but had no idea who she was.


However, I would be very, very upset if I spent my hard earned money and did not know beforehand that this was expected. I suspect that this is only a real problem in cases in which the musician or performer had a history of lip syncing. I mean, I wouldn't expect this to be a problem for U2 or any rock bands. It seems that a big part of what goes into the concert experience is the live-ness of it. Why would anyone want to go to a concert and it sound exactly as if they sat at home and listened to the CD?

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samurailynn
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Probably because Britney refuses to go to anyone's home and bounce around while lip synching to the CD.

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GMFish
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I saw Metalica back in the late 80s and even they played a portion of the concert to a backing tape.

If this becomes mandatory, it'll be on every ticket because everyone does it.

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H3ion
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@GMFish: When Murray the K ran his top 40 shows at the Brooklyn Fox, not one single act actually performed. They were going through their doo wop dance motions, etc. but the music coming through the speakers was their records. And that was OK since all we wanted to do was to see the artists and the shows were pretty cheap. Most of them didn't even move their lips part of the time.

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magic8ball
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@GMFish: I saw Van Halen a few years ago and they played a recording of a synthethizer for the introduction to \"Jump.\" They were not subtle about it. Eddie kind of waved his fingers around and played air synth while the recording played.

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Trai_Dep
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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This sort of thing is fine. There's a lot that can't be done live and audiences know this. So long as it's background, it's reasonable.
...Stuffing the trousers seems unfair to credulous groupies, however, and this MUST NOT STAND!

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craptastico
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@GMFish: Metallica? in the late 80s? a little part of me just died. unless it was just chopper noises in the beginning of One or something like that this is just unacceptable.

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rooben
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@craptastico:
I know that ...And Justice For All had taped background noises on One (Chopper, etc), but none of the music was taped.


On the Black Album, the live show had some elements taped - speaking parts on Enter Sandman, some weird break in Unforgiven, but again - the music was all live (you can tell).

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trujunglist
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@TheWillow:

That sounds so unbelievably lame that I wonder why they didn't take the stupid shit out of the show and focus on why people were there in the first place - the song. If my favorite song is X sung by Y and they don't sing X, they bounce off fucking trampolines, then fuck them.

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TheWillow
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@trujunglist: No one goes to a boyband concert for music. They go because they're pubescent girls (or boys) who want to see the person that they've decided will be their practice imaginary boyfriend.

Or for the dancing.

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!11!!!!!!

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vladthepaler
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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There should absolutely be a rule like the one proposed. In Austalia and in the US.

Britney Spears = the 21st century Milli Vanilli

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Awjvail
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@vladthepaler:

Except it is actually her voice on the track...

I never really understood all of the Milli Vanilli comparisons... she's not using somebody else's voice on the CD and then claiming it as hers...

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AdvocatesDevil
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Awjvail: But how do you know for sure it IS her voice on the CD? :)

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anduin1
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@AdvocatesDevil:
it is her voice, its just VERY heavily produced, if you listen to most of the new stuff (I know, why would you want to?) You can literally hear the computer effects on the voice used to clean up her chain smoking throat.

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Megalomania
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@AdvocatesDevil: because if it isn't, then surely they could have found a better one.

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Aquasol
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@vladthepaler: GIRL YOU KNOW IT'S GIRL YOU KNOW IT'S

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shadax
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I wouldn't want to go pay $300 to listen to the PA system. MJ could do both

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philipbarrett
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@shadax: MJ was happy to lip sync with underage boys.

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ElizabethD
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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These are the sorts of concerts (giant venues, over-the-top spectacle, fake singing) that I would never spend a penny on. Just watch the video! I'd rather be in a rock club close to the stage watching real musicians in real clothing (jeans etc.) play real music with their hearts and talent. I guess I feel that ticket-buyers who spend $100s to see people like Brit get what they deserve. I am more than happy to pay $25-35 to see bands like the Raconteurs, Dead Weather, Alejandro Escovedo, Los Lonely Boys, Buddy Guy, etc. do their thing... their REAL thing... at House of Blues and Paradise Rock Club and Lupo's.

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TheWillow
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@ElizabethD: It is possibly to like both of these sorts of things at the same time, you know.

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ElizabethD
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@TheWillow:

Really? I'm not talking about the genre of music. I'm talking about how ludicrous it seems to me to spend a couple hundred bucks on a fake performance in an airfield-sized venue. I don't care if it's Britney or the Rolling Stones; it had better be REAL performance. Or else I'll pay in fake dollars.

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TheWillow
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@ElizabethD: Yes. I can't stand movies and don't understand why someone would rather pay to see a screen than go see live theater, but that doesn't mean they're wasting their money. I *really* don't understand why some people pay hundreds of dollars for a louis vuitton bag when I can get one for $10 on a street corner, but it's their money, not mine.

I never understood why my guy friends like the WWE, it's obviously fake (don't know why people like real wrestling/boxing/ufc either). Then I went to a payperview royal rumble party and I actually had a good time - but it's still stupid and fake.

If it makes them happy, let them spend their money.

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ElizabethD
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@TheWillow:

Sure, I see your point. It's worth what it's worth to the individual consumer of the \"performance.\"

Movies, though, to me are a separate genre from plays with live actors. I love movies AND live theater. And I pay 4 to 8 times more for live theater than I do for a movie because it's, well, LIVE. And not lip-synched. :-)

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katia802
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@TheWillow: I know WWE is fake, but enjoy the athletic ability and coordination it takes to make it look that good. If i liked an artist, and knew they were doing lip synch during dance numbers, i'd probably pay for the ticket to see them dance. Same basic thing. I agree with the Australian Govt. that it should be announced, but refuse to judge someone else's tastes in comparison to my own.

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Awjvail
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@ElizabethD:

Britney lip synced at the House of Blues too...

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ElizabethD
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Awjvail:

What, she couldn't even project her voice (miked!) in that small venue? Good gweef.

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Steel_Pelican
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@ElizabethD: You should go to basement shows. It doesn't get much more real than that.

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ElizabethD
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Steel_Pelican:
What are basement shows?

(up for almost anything here except for lip-synched spectacles)

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Sanspants
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@ElizabethD: Basement shows are THE best shows to see or play in.


@ElizabethD: You need to put The Middle East on that list. I'd much prefer that club than The Paradise. Oh, and Great Scott too.

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ElizabethD
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Sanspants:

Thanks for the venue tips!

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@ElizabethD: You know...there is such a thing as people having different tastes than you.

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ElizabethD
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Smashville_now with Monster Energy:

And by \"tastes\" you mean \"spending hundreds of dollars to see someone pretend to sing\"? I don't think that's a matter of taste; more a matter of, well, consumerist priorities.

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craptastico
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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it's hard to believe that lip-syncing devestated Milli Vanilli, leading to one of their suicides, and now it's accepted as a given. has music really degenerated that far since the late 80s?

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@craptastico: The difference is it was not Rob and Fab who recorded the tracks that were used for lip-syncing. Britney, at least, records her own vocal track that she lip syncs to.

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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@craptastico: Milli Vanilli didn't lose their Grammies for lip-synching, they lost it because they didn't even perform on their album at all. And were lip-synching to someone else's voice.

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philipbarrett
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@craptastico: Back in the 70's ELO were lambasted when it turned out that their cello parts were pre-recorded. Yes, it has degenerated that much!

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rooben
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@craptastico:


That was different - they didn't actually sing the music on their album; there was a different singer (I believe he sang both parts), and then they lip-synced in their concerts. They were only the \"face\" to Milli Vanilli...this was the same in Black Box and C+C Music Factory, both with models pretending to be singers, while the acutal recordings came from a singer named Martha Wash (who didn't have the right \"look\")


What was the big deal was that their voices were not part of the original recording, thusly not deserving of the Grammy.

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Loias calls you out if you can't RTFA
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Absolutely, let's do this in the U.S.! I rarely go to concerts because so often \"artists\" don't actually sing. There is a realness to singing live that you can't convey in a recording; and hearing a mistake isn't a show-ruining moment either. It's life, and it's live music.

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Steel_Pelican
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Next up, Aussies sue Michael Bay after learning that Transformers aren't real.

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JulesNoctambule
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Steel_Pelican: I think he deserves it just for making Transformers 2.

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flugennock
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Steel_Pelican: Never mind Transformers; if they had any sense, they'd be suing Michael Bay for impersonating a film director.

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Outrun1986
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Yeah, I think they should disclose it just so that you know and are aware of it. Even if its something that's on every ticket, at least they can say you are warned ahead of time.

Although it should probably be disclosed BEFORE you purchase the ticket, not sure how this would be done, but it does seem useless to disclose it on the ticket after you have the ticket in your hands and already paid for it. You know kinda like some theme parks disclose what rides are closed/open AFTER you have already paid to park and paid for your tickets, they got you even before you get in the gate.

Do we know of any performer who can pull off dangerous stunts, a lot of dancing and actually sing live at the same time?? I don't think so.

I think its a little bit ridiculous to expect a performer to sing through the whole concert especially if there is rigorous dancing and dangerous stunts involved. If they are standing or sitting or doing light running then that is different.

I suspect most big-name pop concerts are pre-recorded in the studio, so they are not using the album version, they are using a recording made specifically for the concert.

I also think that performers should at least do a song or 2 live for each concert, even if that means they are sitting down or standing. This way you would have visual entertainment with lip-synching and you would have live singing, which should be a happy enough mix to please everyone. People who pay for the tickets deserve at least that.

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flugennock
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Outrun1986 writes:
Do we know of any performer who can pull off dangerous stunts, a lot of dancing and actually sing live at the same time??

Well, there was Garth Brooks zooming over the stage on wires while wearing his pussy-assed space cowboy outfit while dry ice mist swirled over the stage (what the hell kind of country singer was he supposed to be?), there was Alice Cooper doing the mock hanging at the end of Killer and, of course, there was Michael Jackson and that whole leaning-waaaaaaay-forward dance move during Smooth Criminal.

I remember some retina-melting light shows at Pink Floyd concerts, but the Floyd themselves just sort of stood there and played -- and god damn, did they ever play good.

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HogwartsAlum
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@flugennock: I never got to see Pink Floyd live. Since they are my favorite band of all time, that makes me sad. :(

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willfromtexas
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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This is why I only go to Beyoncé concerts!!

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techstar25
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@willfromtexas: Well, in that case, I hate to be the one to break it to you ...

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JollyJumjuck
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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And this is why I support local music artists, and the occasional established artist where I *know* I'm going to get value for my money (e.g. I recently saw Jane Siberry at a small, intimate venue for $20 and it was worth every penny, and then some). Performers who are trying to make a living (as opposed to funding a pool) are more likely to give back to the audience rather than just \"phone it in.\"
Unless one is doing an homage to Dario Argento, I expect performers to be live in *every* aspect.

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trujunglist
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Wow, you people are just aching to line up and get taken. You know, if you can't repeat a performance on CD live, then don't perform the way you're performing. If it means not dancing around like a fucking moron for some sections of a song then don't dance around like a fucking moron for those sections of the song. It's very simple. Spectacle can be created without sacrificing performance.

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pixiegirl1
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I think with Britney that most people already know that she lip-syncs, I think the only time she sang live was on SNL and you couldn't even hear her over the band . . . I don't think that was by accident. If I went to a Britney concert I would not be expecting her to sing live.

As far as having all musicians declare if they are lip-syncing, I think they should. If for nothing more than the shaming factor. I don't go to concerts that often but I'd be upset if I spent a lot of money on tickets & find out that they were faking it. I think I'd be more inclined to spend money on concert tickets if I knew it was live.

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StanTheManDean
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Ms. Spears to be faking it


When I see a reference to a woman \"faking it\", \"IT\" better damn well be something other than singing.

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Steel_Pelican
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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\"We want a band that plays loud and hard every night/ That doesn't care how many people are counted at the door/ That would travel one million miles
and ask for nothing more than a plate of food and a place to rest/ They'd strike chords that cut like a knife/ It would mean so much more than t-shirts or a ticket stub/ They'd stop at nothing short of a massacre/ Everyone would leave with the memory that there was no place else in the world\"
Against Me!, \"Reinventing Axl Rose\"

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JulesNoctambule
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@Steel_Pelican: Holy damn. An Against Me reference here? And I remember when it was just Tom with his guitar and Kevin on an upturned pickle bucket at the CMC. It's official; I'm old.

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SaraFimm
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I go to Vegas for the shows and I don't care if the Dancers are singing--I'm there for the performance of physical talent. I go to small nightclubs for musical performances where I listen to the music.

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SkokieGuy
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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It seems that the promoters are specifically NOT marketing the musical, singing or concert aspects of the show, but the performance / entertainment aspect.


It is the Circus Tour, starring Brittany Spears. [www.britneyspears.com]


And if exacting musical standards and delivering a life artistic musical performance are of interest to these Aussies, exactly why are they buying Brittany Spears tickets?

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The_Red_Monkey
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Just look for the video on youtube of Enrique Iglesias without his support vocals and you can see how crappy he really is. The problem is not the lip syncing but that they autotune these bastards into sounding like they can sing. The albums should have a warning on them.

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abz_zeus
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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If I'm going to see a show then fine to some lip syncing during more physical section, but if I'm going to a CONCERT where a musician (singer/band) is performing I expect the music to be live.

If I was to see a Britney show I'd expect to see a lot more than her just singing, it it was a concert, I expect her to sing

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dbshaw
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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The poll is ineffective. Just because its too be expected doesn't mean people shouldn't be informed.

A better, more consumerist oriented poll question would merely be: Should people be informed or not?

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TouchMyMonkey
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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My wife and I saw Green Day this past July. Not one note was prerecorded. The closest they come is the use of backup musicians - a guitarist and a pianist (the new CD had piano in it), neither of whom are official members of the band. Were they backstage? Were they on tape? Hell motherfarking no! That wouldn't be rock and roll, and that's what Green Day's fans expect.

If you want me to STFU about Britney Spears being a no-talent hackette, she ought to be made to actually sing on stage. That is, if she can read the teleprompter without staring at it.

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TheWillow
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@HurtsSoGood: They play 3 chords and their vocal range is only slightly better than Bruce Springsteen's.

And Bruce uses a teleprompter.

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Sanspants
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@TheWillow: Which means Billie Joe's vocal range is WAY better than Britney's. Also, that's three more chords than Britney plays.

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RobertBaron
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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If you're going to a Britney Spears. it's not like you give a shit about music anyway so I don't see why a person like that would care if she singing or lip syncing

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XTC46
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I like live music a lot. I also expect that a band playing and singing live will not sound like the CD, sometimes it is better, sometimes it is worse. Being able to puton a great show is important, and im ok with it not sounding as perfect as the album, but there really are some bands that wouldnt be around if it werent for being able to fix the mistakes via a computer, and that is a shame.

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flugennock
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Y'know, Jerry Garcia's singing may not have always been letter-perfect all those years, but at least it was his voice.

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katia802
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@flugennock: this has already been brought up, but I never saw Jerry dancing around and doing aerobics on stage like britteny does. Of course, he never needed to, I brought binoculars to shows just so I could really see his hands when he played.

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swingchickie
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I think the rule of thumb should be this: if the lead performer is going to do a lot of dancing (Britney, Janet Jackson, etc), assume most if not all of the songs will be lip-synched. There's no way on earth a performer can dance that much and carry a tune... hell, even Olympic athletes are huffing and puffing in interviews after competing, and that's only for a few minutes of exertion. You can't expect even better stamina and control from a singer/dancer.

As for the comments about Broadway: having been a professional stage performer, I can tell you there's a difference. Next musical you attend, watch whoever is singing the lead; they won't be dancing up a storm the way the dancers in the chorus are. The people in the chorus are able to sing and dance that hard because they are all helping each other out... they learn to stagger their singing, and mouth the words in some parts, in order to save their breath. It sounds awesome, but that's because not everyone is singing the entire time. It just looks that way. If the lead performer is sick/loses their voice, they have an understudy that can go on... Britney can't have an understudy, so if she's suffering from vocal fatigue from all those shows, the show can go on and the audience gets their entertainment.

Oh -- and some musicals have lip-synching by the leads. I toured with a show where we all recorded \"click tracks\" before the tour started... 2 weeks into the show I lost my voice for several weeks, and to save my voice I'd speak my lines but the \"click track\" would kick in when it was time to sing. So yes, it's done there too!

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willfromtexas
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@swingchickie: Obviously you've never seen Beyoncé perform live.

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ElizabethD
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@swingchickie:

I have seen people in Broadway shows and musicals singing their guts out at top volume AND dancing. Yes, it's strenuous, but all the more impressive because of it.

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Panamapeter
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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We seem to have dancers we call singers. I doubt many of these \"singers\" can actually sing well. A cow pissing on a flat rock can sound good with enough sound engineering.

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bagumpity
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Anagram of Britney Spears: Bray, Siren Pest

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The Marionette
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I think there should be some disclosure about it, and not a fine-print one either. If I'm going to a concert I want to see the person perform how they should. With people like britney spears she only sings, that's it. She doesn't have to play any instruments at all, so at the very least she should at least sing. With bands there's even more because they have the instrumental players and the singer. How would one feel if they went to a band concert and they're pretty much playing air guitar/drum/bass/etc AND lip-syncing? It wouldn't exactly be that much different than watching a music video.

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torgonius
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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So you mean that even if I'm nailing all the notes in Guitar Hero: Van Halen, I'm not really Eddie and shouldn't be charging people to watch me play?

Looks like I'll have to start charging more so that I can budget for a legal defense fund now.

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Tijil
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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If the promoter advertises a \"live performance\" of a singer, I expect that person to actually be singing; A live SINGING performance.

If the performer is just going to lip sync a recording, why should I pay the exorbitant prices? My wife could do that for me... :o)

Luckily the sort of music performances I attend are much, much more likely to be \"live\" as I don't believe most jazz or classical audiences would as easily put up with listening to a recording while the performers simply mime.

If I'm going to listen to a recording, I can do it more easily, less expensively, and likely with better fidelity at home in my music room.

Should fake performances be clearly stated in the advertising? Absolutely! Live music performancees should not be redefined as \"pre-recorded music performance with a peson on stage faking it\" - Unless it Milli-Vanilli...

[en.wikipedia.org]

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davidc
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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If I wanted to listen to pre-recorded music, I simply click the mouse. When I want to hear \"live\" music performed, I buy a concert ticket.

Concert: performance of music by players or singers

If the band or vocals are \"pre-recorded\" that needs to be disclosed since they are no longer \"performing\" the songs.

It's pretty simple ... doesn't matter how long somebody has been mis-representing themselves or if they shaved their head at some point in their life.

If you sell \"concert\" tickets, especially \"live concert\" tickets, you better be performing it live.

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Slow2Whine
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I agree with David.c - I think if a show is going to have any vocals or music pre-recorded, They shouldn't charge such a premium for a \"live\" performance.

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Smorgasbord
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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If you want to hear her ACTUAL voice, go to

). Believe me, you would rather have her lip-sync.
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heart.shaped.rock
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I've seen Britney twice (shuddup, I have a daughter) in her younger years and I can tell you that her shows are, well, pretty damn incredible. Like her or not, the shows are entertaining and wild with great dancing, amazing sets, explosions and everything else. I didn't go expecting to see a supreme vocalist, and neither did my kid, we went to see a spectacle and that's what we got.


On another note, I was a huge Iron Maiden fan as a teenager and saw them several times live, the last time around 1990. It was festival seating and I wanted to get out of the crowd, so I walked up to a seating area that was right behind the sound board. I watched as a technician played a keyboard right along with Steve Harris' bass line. THAT was devastating....

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aliminx
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I've heard Britney Spears singing on Demo tracks, and she isn't lip synching because she's dancing, she's lip synching because she can't sing very well.

Most of her \"dancing\" is walking around, so COME ON.

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danno5-0
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Lip sinking is kind of like buying a high quality fake Rolex watch. The fake look, feels, and works like the real thing, but its not the same.

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moore850
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I think the words \"lip sync\" or something very distinc that will identify the performance as \"taped\" should have to appear in the title of the show, otherwise it's like false advertising.

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razremytuxbuddy
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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There are gray areas here. Lots of live shows use electronic sampling to fill in the sound, although they are singing and playing their instruments live. Back in the 60s, the Beatles, Moody Blues, etc. used a Mellotron to recreate the sounds of orchestra instruments. That's why they don't need a full orchestra on stage with them. Now it's done with digital sound. That is all fine with me, although I'd also like the raw sound of just the live singing and instruments.

Britney's show is different. It should be advertised as what it is: A person dancing (but mostly just strutting back and forth across the stage) to prerecorded music. If I want to see someone bad enough to go to one of their concerts, I try to get a close seat. It's easy to tell from there that the singing and playing is live. The occasional flaws and bum notes are part of the live show. If I went to a concert that was lipsynched, I'd be upset.

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adamcz
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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If everyone supposedly already \"knows\" this, why does she still wear a microphone?

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scredly
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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My problem with her miming live is the she sells music CD's not dance videos. An other posters have covered, singing while is done in musical theatre and if it was easy everyone could do it. If Brit-Brit has to tone down her dancing so she can sing, that's what should be done. If she can't really sing - then put out dance videos and tour as a dance troupe.

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PsiCop
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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The issue here isn't just that Ms Spears admits she lip-syncs. As has been pointed out, that's not news. The issue, rather, is whether or not concert promoters generally should have to report that performers lip-sync.

While I'm not one for \"government mandates,\" this is not something that should cost anyone any money, though, and it promotes transparency, which is always good for consumers. So there's little reason not to do it. Online ticket vendors could easily add into the description of some concerts a line like, \"This concert may feature simulated vocals\" or something along those lines.

One more thing ... a lot of commmenters have suggested that it's somehow not reasonable to expect performers like Ms Spears to dance and sing simultaneously. While it's true that some exertions can stop vocals, I disagree that it's impossible to choreograph something really astounding which prevents someone from singing. I've spent a few decades doing amateur theater and know MANY performers who were able to both sing and dance — and even perform what might best be called \"gymnastics\" — at the same time. If amateurs who get paid nothing can do it, then it's not unreasonable to assume Ms Spears ... whose pay for the tour will no doubt be in the millions ... can do it.

It may be simply a matter of designing a routine that matches the performer's ability ... but that's why tours hire choreographers.

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shibblegritz
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Dear God, is there any limit to which government will not go to nanny its subjects?

If you're so dim as to believe talentless pop hacks are actually performing live, you probably also believe recorded performances are faithful reproductions of their angelic singing voices and that the Photoshopped models in womens' magazines are all really that perfect.

Shall we require iTunes customers to click through a disclaimer that musical performances have been heavily edited and synthesized or require Photoshopping disclaimers on every altered photo (ie every photo that ever appears in a magazine?).

Go to the damn show, enjoy the spectacle, but don't think you're in the presence of true talent, and don't expect government to warn you that you're not. They should have better things to spend your money on, and if they don't, like the old Australian singer used to say, they should just \"give it back.\"

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stlbud
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Britney Spears or not. I want to know if I'm paying for a live performance or a recording. I got burned years ago - paid a lot of money for a \"live\" concert only to find 5 musicians on stage and a big tape recorder in the back of the auditorium (yeah this was some time ago). Anyway, I thought I was paying for a full orchestra and all I got was a recording. The concert was, to say the least, disappointing. Watching a video would probably have been more entertaining.

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P_Smith
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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This is what happens when you go to see \"performers\" and \"singers\" instead of musicians. If you go to see superficial crap, you're going to get superficial crap.


People who go to see real music (guitar/bass/drum bands, jazz groups or classical orchestras) don't have this problem. Any bands or groups that faked it on stage would lose all their fans.

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phoblog
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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I saw the concert. Mouthing the words would have been totally fine . . . IF Brit had put on a real show, rather than just casually walking back and forth across the stage as her backup dancers REALLY danced. Anyone who has seen a previous tour should have known from the first song that Brit was just filling the coffers and in no way ready to get back on the road as the great show-woman she once was. THAT'S what Oz should be mad about.

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u1itn0w2day
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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Most definately they should disclose if they are lip syncing or have prerecording instrument tracks. You are paying for a LIVE show.


One of the most recent examples I can think of was when I think it was Shakira lip sync'd on NBC's America's Got Talent. It was totally contradictory to what the contestants were having to do - perform live under pressure. It was in conflict with what the show was about. What a hypocrite pop star and network for letting her do it.

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