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hills

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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ADT = ugh. I was really pleased when I chose a local alarm company - when my alarm went off on the middle of the night someone from my city, and not 3000 miles away, called.... that can be helpful in an emergency & it's nice to support local business!

4 replies

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Aaronjk

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@hillsrovey: I'll never cower in the corner waiting for the phone call when someone breaks down my door, he'll have a bullet in the chest.

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kaceetheconsumer

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@hillsrovey: We went with a local company that later got bought out by a national one, and the service quality declined significantly. And without our knowledge, they exploited a clause in the original contract that said something about if they get bought out, the terms of the buyer's standard contract applies, so when we moved to another state and didn't stick with them, they tried to make us pay the rest of the year's fees. We threatened to make a public stink about it and got it down to just the fee to cover the month after we left the service, during which the arguing was going on. We weren't thrilled with that but we took it.

So sadly, going local isn't a long-term guarantee, but it's a better start, I guess.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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+1.

I get mine installed in my new place Friday. The local guys were quite knowledgeable, low-pressure, and there were no long-term contracts.

AST/Broadview = kinda sleazy/sketchy anyway even before I read this.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Or ADT even...lol. Sigh. Getting old.

","

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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This is very similar to that story of the lawyer who went around passing out fliers to people that lived in a building where a woman was brutally raped, a few weeks after said incident. A lot of people said it was OK because it's not like he specifically targeted that woman or anything, just the building she was in. He's just trying to make a living, right?

There's a right way and a wrong way to make a living, and if you have to take advantage of a senseless tragedy to do it, then you might need to rethink your business plan, and probably your morals too.

4 replies

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mythago

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@squinko: Of course, there are ethical codes and disciplinary boards to deal with lawyers like that asswipe. ADT doesn't give a rip.

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pecan 3.14159265

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@squinko: I remember that. ADT is definitely doing something similar, and it's pretty slimy of them.

You know, ADT could have sidestepped a lot of the criticism if they had drafted a list of tips on staying safe and personal security, and then ended it with \"For more information on ADT and its security services, please call (phone number) or visit us at (web address).\"

They could have been a $@)%*^ human, and didn't have to offend everyone. They could have chosen to be helpful instead, but they decided to be opportunist.

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: I just thought of another one. Remember when Jennifer Hudson's sister and mother were killed? Some local shop came out with an advertisement about how they would still be alive today if they had a shotgun, held in the company's patented shotgun-bed-holster-thing, nearby.

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kaceetheconsumer

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@squinko: That's a common response from the gun industry to school shootings too. If only a teacher had been armed to the teeth, nothing bad would have happened, really really.

Plus I suppose Rambo would make a decent geography teacher.

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Traveshamockery

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@kaceetheconsumer:

That's a common response from the gun industry to school shootings too. If only a teacher had been armed to the teeth, nothing bad would have happened, really really.

Can you provide an example of a member of \"the gun industry\" making such a statement? Keep in mind that the NRA is not a part of the gun industry, but a representative of gun consumers.

While you're at it, perhaps you'd like to comment on the number of mass killings that occur in \"gun free zones\". It seems those bent on murder don't mind walking right past those signs....

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Traveshamockery: yeah, really, no need to turn this into another \"NR ncdnt.\" I agree that kaceetheconsumer should perhaps provide more background for the \"gun industry\" statement, but seriously, did you really need to open up that can of worms? Give me a freaking break. I'm pro-guns and even I think you're being ridiculous.

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kaceetheconsumer

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Traveshamockery: \"Can you provide an example of a member of \"the gun industry\" making such a statement?\"

Took me less than two minutes to find an example on Google. If I wasn't so busy I'm sure I could find more.

[articles.latimes.com]

Murderers do walk past signs, yes. But having more guns in more hands doesn't stop them either, especially if most of those hands are untrained.

I prefer Chris Rock's idea of making each bullet cost $5000.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: They should hire you for their marketing department. That would have pretty much fixed the problem.

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pecan 3.14159265

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): I'm 2 for 0 in my imaginary marketing firm. I also fixed the \"that's so gay\" ad campaign. I'm very good at figuring out how to get to people.

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pecan 3.14159265

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: 2 for 2. I'm going to hire a numbers guy for my imaginary marketing firm.

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kaceetheconsumer

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: Actual LOL on that. +1

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umbriago

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Hi, I'm Phil from Smith and Wesson! We're in your neighborhood today with a special offer on our top of the line SW1911 handgun! Could I have a moment of your time and give a short demonstration?

4 replies

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Applekid

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@umbriago: I'm just curious. Suppose they did have an alarm and did all the right things and it went off, just like in those Brink's scaremercials. How long would it have taken the police to respond to \"just another home alarm system\"? Compare to how long it would take some sick bastard to kill someone.

Both approaches are reactive to good common sense and having your wits about you, but one takes an average of 20 minutes and the other about as fast as you can reach into your pants / purse.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Applekid: Further, what if an attacker broke in during a period when the alarm was not armed? There's only so much an alarm can do. Better to have a loud, loyal watchdog and a shotgun.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: One of my criminology instructors told us that the shotgun was an effective deterrent, even without being used. If an intruder gets into your home, he said, just pump that sucker. Every burglar in the world knows that sound. *SHUCKSHUCK* \"Oh CRAP\"

I don't know if he was joking or not, but if I were a burglar and I heard that, I'd run like the wind.

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Traveshamockery

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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One of my criminology instructors told us that the shotgun was an effective deterrent, even without being used. If an intruder gets into your home, he said, just pump that sucker. Every burglar in the world knows that sound. *SHUCKSHUCK* \"Oh CRAP\"
I don't know if he was joking or not, but if I were a burglar and I heard that, I'd run like the wind.

It's a wonderful thought, but people shouldn't buy a gun hoping its \"noisemaker\" function will save their life.

The sight of a gun isn't going to make a hopped-up druggie crap his pants, he's just going to come at you. If you're not mentally prepared to pull the trigger, you're probably just going to get killed with your own shotgun, sound effects and all.

Same thing with \"warning shots\". A warning shot is just an obvious indicator to the bad guy that you're not serious about shooting them. Plus, in most states, firing a warning shot is legally the same as \"using deadly force\" against the intruder. You're also responsible for where that bullet ends up...

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Traveshamockery: Who siad I wasn't going to pull the trigger!? >:|

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@HogwartsAlum: That sound is seriously pretty terrifying. Nothing makes you feel more powerful than pumping a 12-gauge.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@katstermonster: I wanna learn how to do it one-handed a la Sarah Conner in T2 :)

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@HogwartsAlum: I've heard of a study where prison inmates convicted of burglary were hooked up to machines that measured stress levels. Various sounds were then played, among them being a man's voice yelling, a dog barking, and a shotgun action being ratcheted. The shotgun noise scored the highest stress level.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: Ha ha ha ha...so my cop guy WASN'T kidding!!!!

Man I know just the one I want, but I don't have any money. :P

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dfens42

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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You can get an entry level Mossberg 500 or Remmington 870 for less than $300 new from someplace like Dick's or BassProShops...

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@dfens42: Cool, we have Bass Pro.

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ARP

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@HogwartsAlum: My friends ridiculed me for wanting a shotgun with a laser sight. My theory was that any true neer-do-well in my home would hear the noise of the shotgun racking a shell and a laser looking for something to shoot and so the chance of me actually having to use it would be slim.

BOT- I think gun companies, alarm systems, governments, drug makers, and consumer products all use fear as a means to sell products or policy. The problem is that we've become used to reactively responding to this fear and let prejudices surface [See: Beck].

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rocketbear79: threadkiller

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ARP: You don't even need an actual laser sight, just get a good green laser pointer ($10-20) and that will achieve the same effect.

Your friends do realize that shotguns can fire slugs as well right? (not that you would want slugs for home defense)

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Aaronjk

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@rocketbear79: threadkiller: For a home defense shotgun use BIRD SHOT. At the close proximity it still makes a HUGE hole, but gets stopped by one to two layers of drywall. Good thing around family, buckshot will go through 9-10 layers.

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rocketbear79: threadkiller

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Aaronjk: Yep, agreed. Also pellet based \"hamburger rounds\" are good for home defense handguns. Most likely won't kill but turns the targeted area to its nick-namesake.

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kayl

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@rocketbear79: threadkiller:

You can't in good conscience recommend those handgun novelty rounds...

Buy high quality brand name hollowpoints. Buy 150 rounds or so and put 100 through your gun, shooting one handed, with both hands, limp wristing, etc. If that round isn't reliable, find one that is. (Obviously - make sure that your gun isn't the problem. Clean it and lube it per manufacturer's recommendations)

Bird shot is a good recommendation for a shotgun load

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Jfielder

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ARP: Except that lasers work both ways... they also show the bad guys where to shoot. Forget about the laser, practice with your firearms and become proficient with them. And then you'll be better of with a ridiculously bright flashlight and a pressure switch... Know your target and what's beyond your target.

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Jfielder23: They make laser sights that don't show where they originate from; they only show the little dot on the target.

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starrion

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@umbriago:
Smith and Wesson- the original Point and Click interface....

Yes. Alarm companies do this. Most alarms are never ever used. Alarm systems in a small town like this even less so. The point is deterence. Theives don't like houses with alarms, even though it's likely that they could break in and do what they wanted before the police responded.

People who are rattled by a tragedy like this might get some peace of mind by installing an alarm. If I were doing the sales, I wouldn't mention what happened though.

Disclosure: I work for Tyco. I do not work for ADT.

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Kogenta

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@starrion: I think the point of an alarm system is that if they know the police are coming, they're just going to grab whatever they can and get out instead of casually spending the time to strip the whole house all of your valuables.

It's not designed to stop burglars/home invasion. It's designed to attempt to minimize the losses of such an event should it happen (also deterrence).

The consumerist summary doesn't really give me the impression that they were mentioning anything. The area is small enough it sounds like that everyone already knew what happened. I think it may be a bit tactless. In wake of an event like this, I see no problem with them doing sales, but I think they should be as discreet as possible.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Kogenta: I agree that it's not designed to stop smash & grab burglars, but my home alarm system actually has a pretty nifty home invasion alert that will let the alarm people know that I'm undergoing a home invasion without sounding an audible alarm in my home or calling my phone. As soon as the alert goes off, the police get a very specific message.

As for the practice of selling alarms to a community that experienced a tragedy, it doesn't seem all that shocking. We have personal injury lawyers that we call ambulance chasers and this type of distasteful behavior doesn't seem any different. Sad, but unsurprising.

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@339point4: Just because other people do it, doesn't make any of it right.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Why not?

The best time to market things to people is when they're aware they could need it.

While they should be doing something like sponsoring this town's vigil or w/e as well, it's not a low blow in my eyes.

4 replies

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mythago

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Covertghost: No, the best time to market things to people is when they are likely to buy it. Right after a horrible tragedy is the time they will hate you. Do you also turn up at funerals offering to sell life insurance?

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pecan 3.14159265

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Covertghost: It's like peddling fire extinguishers after a home burns to the ground. It's just very, very tacky. I said upthread in a reply to squinko's post that ADT could have taken a much better route to advertising its services, but it either didn't think about it, or didn't think anything was wrong.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: I would go with the latter as most companies have limited or no moral compass when it comes to making money.

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Covertghost: Hey, your mother's dead. How would you like a security system? Maybe she'd still be alive if you had one in the first place.

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bohemian

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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So someone was murdered after someone broke into a home. Would you answer the door for some strange guy days later?

2 replies

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chiieddy

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@bohemian: This particular murder/attack was rather heinous. 4 teenagers decided they were going to kill someone to see how it 'felt' and picked the house at random. This was a fairly rural, small town where people leave their doors unlocked, etc. It was pretty earth-shattering for the area.

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ARP

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@chiieddy: Wait I thought crime only happens in big liberal cities and is only committed by brown people. Limbaugh has been lying to me?

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Traveshamockery

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ARP: Nobody's been telling you that, and you're haven't been listening to Limbaugh.

But if you read the stats, you'll find that big liberal cities full of brown people do have the highest violent crime rates. But I'm sure that's just me being racist.

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mythago

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Traveshamockery: I'm unaware of a correlation between liberal political beliefs and the murder rate. Citation please? And no, Fox News doesn't count.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@mythago: Thank you. :)

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Traveshamockery: Was that REALLY necessary? ARP was trying to make a joke, and hey, it made my day. So how about you remove the stick from your ass? And I've listened to more than enough Limbaugh in my life, I suggest you turn off the radio and try some original thought once in a while.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ARP: hahaha I'm coming down with the flu, and you just made my day about 12 times better.

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squishyalt

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I agree with the smarmy attitude of the Laura Northrup.

Those greedy bastards should just wait until everyone feels safe and secure. That way nobody will buy an alarm system and more people will be easy targets for murder.

Capital idea Laura!

4 replies

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@squishyalt: You're a douche. There were plenty of ways for ADT to capitalize on this without being insensitive about it. I'm sure many of the people in that town were already considering a security system because of the killing.

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lmarconi

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@katstermonster: Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering what you would suggest ADT do to capitalize on this event without being insensitive. Is it a matter of waiting until everyone forgot about it - because at that point it seems like they wouldn't be interested in the product anymore.
Personally, I think it would have been a positive idea for ADT to wait two weeks, then throw some money at the town and offer to sponsor a public/home safety forum with fire, police and safety experts. ADT gets their name and product out there and residents benefit from some useful information even if they're not interested in the product. Unfortunately, this was probably not the work of the company and probably the work of an individual salesman desperate for commission, so I'm not really sure what could have been done to stop him, short of paying these people salary so they don't have to resort to insensitivity out of desperation.

Side note: Was it really necessary to call him a douche? Sorry, I don't mean to be the language police, I just think it degrades your good point to lead off with that.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@lmarconi: I agree entirely with your suggestions, as well as the ones Pecan Pi has brought up - ADT could sponsor some sort of home safety message, one in which the main point ISN'T getting people to buy ADT systems...they'll flock on their own.

My issue with squishyalt wasn't the opinion expressed, it was that the entire comment was rude and sarcastic, and the editor was called \"smarmy\" in the process, which I find to be both unnecessary and inappropriate. So yes, douche is appropriate. For example, your comment was constructive and asked a good question without being obnoxious, so I would never call you a douche. :)

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@katstermonster: And on second glance, it does appear that I'm calling squishyalt a douche because of his opinion...the douche truly was because of being a sarcastic name-caller, though.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@squinko: On second thought, I've been meaning to <3 you. So there it is.

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@katstermonster: @MostlyHarmless: I like hearts. ;)

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@squinko: I'm assuming theres a pic there that katstermonster liked and is blocked from where I work.

I'll wait till i see that one to do the hearting.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@MostlyHarmless: Monkey, saying \"You missed the point, good sir.\" I'll tweet it to you.

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cosby

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I see nothing wrong with this. It is a good time to bring up the benefits of having a security system in place.

I know one of the vendors did the same around my area when reports came out saying breaking and entering was on the rise. My mom talked to them but just didn't get a good vibe from the guy. She ended up calling vector and they sent someone over and got her setup.

I will say that I generally will not have anything to do with door to door sales people though. Never know what they are really up to.

3 replies

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@cosby: There's a huge difference between, \"Hey, there's been some break-ins in the area, how's your home security?\" and \"Hey, two women were attacked and one died. Want an alarm system?\"

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rocketbear79: threadkiller

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@squinko: I agree. This actually happened to me for the first time yesterday. A guy came to the door selling ADT and was talking about burglaries and stuff down the road. I didn't really see a problem with it, and the guy looked just like J. Pederman (sp?) from Seinfeld so I was slightly amused while politely tuning him out.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@squinko: ah, but since anyone can print up business cards and salespeople don't have special IDs like cops, anyone coming around saying 'there's been some break ins, how's your home security?' is going to be suspicious looking to me.
how do i know they aren't 'casing the joint' ?

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@catastrophegirl: I'm not saying it's a good idea in general, but it seems less heartless to me if they were doing this because of a rash of break-ins rather than a horrible murder.

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pecan 3.14159265

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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What hasn't been discussed is the fact that this was a senseless tragedy, one in which the perpetrators broke into a home. ADT, while effective at detecting forced intrusion, doesn't do much if people aren't aware of their surroundings, install better locks, and avoid opening doors to strangers. If someone wants to get in your home and do you harm, there are easier ways than breaking in. ADT sells an alarm service - but there's no replacement for common sense. All it takes is for someone to open the door, and for someone to force their way in. No alarms would go off.

A better tactic for ADT would be to highlight safety measures people can take to protect themselves, and then tout the benefits of adding a home security alarm system. It might not be the hard sell ADT looks for, and they may not get as many sales in the short term, but I bet a lot more people would think \"that's a nice thing they did\" rather than being upset. And that could have won them some loyalty in the long run.

2 replies

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mythago

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: \"Common sense\", if you want to avoid danger, would be to avoid romantic relationships , never consume alcohol and never leave the house except in a large group of extremely well-trusted people. Cowering in fear and never opening the door for a UPS delivery or a Girl Scout is not going to improve your odds. Particularly since a gang of four teenagers who wants into your house real bad is not going to stop and wander off because your door is locked.

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ARP

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: I would love to see a model home if security and gun firms had their way. It would have no locks, but sensors everywhere inside and outside of the home. There would be a gun in every room. Living there would require no thought or common sense on the part of the occupant. Just wait for the police to come and shoot anything that walks near the house: girl scouts, neighbors, mormons, etc.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Opportunistic? Yeah, probably... but is it wrong? I'm not so sure it is. ADT is probably one of the last companies I'd personally go with for home protection, but I can fully understand why some people would feel safer with them.

ADT is in the security business. It's their job to try to find customers who worry about their protection. In areas like this, after a recent criminal activity, there's bound to be a market. Yes, it's opportunistic, but no more so than any other business that attempts to create an opportunity to get more customers. The only reason why we are even talking about this at all is because it's a \"sensitive\" subject...

Fact of the matter is, though, that I'd bet there are people there who'd like to know more about security now and ADT has a right to make their case. It's not like ADT came out saying: hey if these people had one of our systems this wouldn't have happened. Nobody is saying that.

2 replies

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@BacteriaEP: Totally. It's not a black and white issue. It's helpful and opportunistic at the same time.

It's similar to the fire department posting warnings and things you should do to reduce your risk during times of high fire risk (which here in California, seems to be always).

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mythago

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Benguin: No, it's not. The fire department does not sell you services by posting those warnings; they're trying to STOP you from needing to call them. ADT is doing just the opposite.

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Julia789

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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It is scummy, but after a break in or tragedy, many people do want a system installed immediately in their home.

When I was 16, I was home alone taking a shower when two men broke into our secluded suburban home. I thought I would be raped or killed when I came out of the shower and saw them from behind, pulling dresser drawers out and dumping them on the floor, as I stood there in nothing but a towel.

I ran to my room, SLAMMED the door (so they'd hear someone was there but hopefully not know I'd seen them) and locked it. I quickly called my Dad at work, he yelled \"I'm on my way call the police\" then hung up and called 911. (Why I called my dad first, was just a reaction of a scared little girl wanting dad to protect her, I was sweating and about to faint and not thinking straight.) I was so happy to hear several police cars screech into our driveway and they ran into my house with guns drawn - me still hiding in the towel. Luckily slamming the door worked, they fled when they realized someone was home. They were never found, but I was happy to be alive.

And I was never happier than when my furious dad pulled in shortly afterward, having driven 100 mph on the highway from the next town to get there, bursting in the door ready to kill anyone who touched his little girl. God I miss my dad! I will always remember him bursting in the house in his business suit like The Hulk, ready to kill someone, and grabbing me - so happy to hug him.

The first thing I asked my parents to do was get an alarm installed in the house with a panic button. I didn't need to beg for the alarm - my father was ready to turn the house into Fort Knox.

3 replies

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DH405

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Julia789: Glad to see that story left you relatively unharmed.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@DH405: Seconded.

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Julia789

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@DH405: Thanks. I did feel better when the alarm was installed with a panic button on each floor of the house. That was almost 20 years ago. It's actually nice to remember the story now that my dad has passed away, because I keep that fond memory of him \"rushing to my rescue.\" Dad in shining armor. :-)

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Timing is everything. It sounds to me like the timing was inappropriate and insensitive in this case. They should have waited just a few days longer, so that it didn't look like they are trying to take advantage of people's grief. And I like the idea that they could offer an informational general book about home security, and THEN mention \"oh by the way, we sell an alarm system.\" That's a better way to go about it and to present yourself as a concerned business within the community, rather than knocking on doors.

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redskull

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@gafpromise: I agree about the timing. Waiting a week after the vigil before hawking security systems would have gone a long way in the eyes of the community.

That said, why do door-to-door salesmen even exist anymore? I could see the point back in the 1930s through 1950s when housewives were usually home all day and most families owned one car. But today most people are at work (well, they were till this year) during the day. Plus, people can order pretty much anything they can think of online.

Who needs a guy coming to your door and bugging you?

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@redskull: Also, some towns require them to get a permit before they can do it, and they grant virtually no permits to non-charitable organizations.

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enine

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Yes they still exist, I've had two alarm companies, the local newspaper (whoes saleman decided to put out his cigeratte on my porch) and the more spray your lawn with harmful chemicales to make your grass greener than your neighbors than I can count. After the first month I started to get rude back to them.

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moore850

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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ADT, First to respond in an emergency... by trying to sell alarm systems to your neighborhood. Seriously, what does ADT propose they could have done to stop the murder? Alarm systems won't stop a killer nearly as well as fast-moving bullets.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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When seconds count, the police are only minutes away-- Get a gun and be prepared to use it if someone breaks in. All the alarms in the world aren't going to help you in the time it takes for the cops or ADT to respond to an emergency. YOU are responsible for YOUR safety.

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ARP

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@halcyondays: Assuming you have the presence of mind 1) to go get it, 2)understand if someone is a threat or not, and 3) use it. 2) is the biggest issue in my mind.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@halcyondays: A gun is great, but only if you're awake and alert when a break-in occurs. That's the only advantage I can see to having an alarm system, but I'd still go with a dog over ADT. ADT won't take a chunk out of a burglar's ass the way a doberman will. Gun + Dog = Win.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster:
\"Gun + Dog = Win\"

Right on! If you can train your dog to shoot your gun, then you totally win!!

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@AdvocatesDevil: Or train it to hold bees in its mouth so when it barks it shoots bees at you!

:D

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Hooray4Zoidberg

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: Unless your dog attacks everyone who sets foot in your house, he'll likely not attack a burglar. Ever watch that show \"To Catch a Thief\"? Everyone always thinks their dog will protect them from burglars and every time they simulated a break in the dogs were happy to see the burglar, tail wagging, jumping up and down, licking his hand/face. Typically they'll treat burglars like anyone else who enters they house, they don't know who belongs.

Having a dog that might bark in the middle of the could be good to wake you up if someone breaks in, but if it barks every night and creates a \"cry wolf\" scenario you'll probably either sleep through it or learn to ignore it.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Hooray4Zoidberg: Depends on the breed and training, really. If a dog isn't specifically trained to be a guard dog, it likely won't act as one. A golden or labrador retriever likely won't take exception to an uninvited guest; they were bred for something entirely different. A properly trained breed like a doberman, or mastiff, likely will take action against an intruder. There's a reason they were popular with junkyard owners. ^_^

There are some breeds that will do this instinctively; my roommate's chow mix once cornered a friend who came in unannounced through a side door, but most dogs need to be trained to do so.

But yeah, you can't just buy a dog and expect it to know what to do if someone breaks into your house unless you've trained it. A dog that barks continually at nothing is certainly a problem, but sometimes barking alone is enough of a deterrent to make a burglar pick a softer target. I'd still feel better with the dog, though. You can't rub an alarm's belly and it won't fetch sticks. ^_^

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mythago

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: There's a reason that actual guard dogs are trained by and owned full-time by professionals. If you have a \"guard dog\" in your house, it's not a pet. And you won't ever want to have friends over.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@mythago: True. It can be done, but a lot depends on the dog, the training, the owner, etc. Although with proper training, the dog should stand down when ordered. Otherwise why have them?

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@RecordStoreToughGuy_IsBeing(pur)SuedByAMonster: Really, my retriever barked and growled at everyone who came near the house until I told him it was okay the same as my Doberman.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@VagrantRadio: I did say \"likely won't\" not \"won't do it at all.\" There's a very good chance he was taking his cues from the Dobie. They are pack animals.

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Blueskylaw

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I like the Broadview Security commercials where ⅛ of a second after a \"bad\" guy kicks in the door, a well coiffed model with snow white teeth says we received a report of a breakin. Are you all right? We are sending help right away Mrs. Fletcher.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Blueskylaw: Yeah, I know the response time of these people for calling is 10-15 minutes. Lotta help there.

A neighbor had hers go off, something was wrong with the system, and she couldn't turn it off. She was standing outside with her phone to get away from the alarm noise, that's how we knew what was going on, and it took them no less than 15 minutes to call her and help her get it turned off.

An older friend in Georgia a few nights ago had her door kicked in in the middle of the night. Her alarm system woke her up, along with the bang of the door. She had her gun ready and aimed at her bedroom door, and called 911. Evidently, the guy did run off right away, and she is disappointed she didn't get a shot off. The cops said they were disappointed, too. The cops were already there by the time the alarm system people called her.

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cmdrsass

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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New Hampshire is the safest state in the nation, so this crime was particularly horrifying. With such a low crime rate, I wonder how an ADT guy can make ends meet. Oh wait ...

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Eels

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I live in even smaller town New Hampshire than the town this happened in. What bothers me most about this is the fact that I doubt these salesmen were offering a fair price for their services, and instead inflating prices to capitalize on our fear. People here are mostly ignorant to the pricing of alarm systems. Until a neighbor's house was robbed last year, we had never even locked the door to our house.

That being said, the home security preys on our vulnerability and this is not that shocking considering the commercials for (I think) Brink's that you see on TV. They are basically telling us that at some point in our life, a man in a black hoodie is going to kick our door in and try to kill us, and so help us if there isn't an alarm on that door.

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pecan 3.14159265

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Common sense tactic #1: Lock your doors.

I don't understand why people don't do this. I don't care if you live somewhere in which you know everyone in the entire town and everyone is so loving and kind they bake each other cookies on the weekend - there are always people passing through. One of those people might take advantage of your unlocked doors.

I grew up in very safe suburbs and we locked all of our doors and windows every night. We never feared for our safety in our neighborhood, but why even tempt those who would do harmful things given the chance?

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mythago

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: Yes, locking your window and door might delay an intruder all of 2.3 seconds while he smashes the glass or kicks in your flimsy spring lock. I agree it's better to lock than not, but c'mon. Locked doors and windows are largely going to keep out opportunistic criminals. They're not going to do much against somebody who really wants in and doesn't care if you know it.

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Julia789

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: In our local newspaper last week, a woman who left both her front and back doors and her ground floor bathroom window unlocked had a man attack and grope her in the shower. She screamed for help and her son (12 years old I think?) came running down and chased the guy away.

I cannot imagine leaving my doors unlocked. That woman could have been raped or killed, and her son could have been injured or killed as well. At least if the doors were locked, he might not have broken in, or at least it would have made enough noise to alert them, so they could call police.

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GitEmSteveDave_ Natural H1N1 Cure

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: Well, in this commercial for Broadview Security, a mother and daughter seem to be picked at random, and locked door is kicked in.

I kind of like this one for Bear Mountain Sports:

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enine

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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The real question is weather or not there is any benefit to having an alarm system. Two drugged out kids decided to take dayys's truck out for a drive and went through the side of my house, it was on the opposite side wall of the one car garage and we were sitting on the couch in the living room on the other side of the garage, just a few more feet and I would have been run over. I ask you the same question I asked the alarm salesman who came around shortly after if they had run through the side where I was and ran over me how would the alarm have saved me, I would still have been run over and the 911 operators would tell the alarm company the same thing they told me that they police and emt's were all occupied on other calls (it was a rainy day so there were a lot of car accidents). Would the alarm company have kept calling 911 for the next 30 minutes like I did to finally get someone to come out or would they have made the inital call then logged in their database that the police were called and on their way?

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golddog

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@enine: I think it depends on the type of system and what you pay for. I guarantee that having an ADT system would have done nothing to bring about a different outcome in that (NH, not yours) situation. I can't remember all the details of the case, so I'm not sure how much time they spent in the house, but I DO know this:

- They staked out the house prior to breaking in. Any ADT-ish system can be disabled by simply cutting the phone line. Most security companies sell a wireless backup as an upgrade, but last I heard you had to be in a relatively populated area for that to work. You can also cut the wire that goes from the panel to the Tx, so problem solved for the home invader.

- Police are extremely skeptical of dispatching to a private residence alarm from a company like ADT due to the high rate of false alarms and usually don't like coming out unless there's a homeowner who can confirm on the phone they are indeed bound and gagged and being murdered. See issue #1 above.

Security companies are a surprisingly scumbaggy industry IMO. The one benefit that's been proven is that if a burglar is looking at two houses, one has an alarm and the other doesn't, they're going for the unalarmed house. Why make you life more difficult, even if the chances of hassles are usually remote. Not sure about research on drugged out kids driving in to your house.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@golddog: I would think the systems would be useless if they could be disabled so easily. The criminal sees the ADT sign on the lawn and they already know what they have to do to get into that house. I know you don't have to have the sign but criminals likely can see the signs of an ADT system anyways. If your the only one on the street with the alarm system then they know you have something good in there so they try to target your house.

You have to go with the flow for your neighborhood, if everyone has the alarm system, you get it as well. If no one has it, don't be the only one with it.

A system like this might be useful if you have an elderly person living alone and they need to push the panic button for a medical emergency but I don't think its too useful if your trying to prevent break-ins.

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golddog

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Outrun1986: You're right...just like there's a continuum of security companies...let's say ADT at one end and Blackwater ex-secret service agents camped out on your roof, there's a continuum of crooks...opportunistic crackheads and satanic teens at one end and Danny Ocean at the other. That ADT sign in the yard and accompanying system will probably make the crackhead move on or chase them away, Danny Ocean not so much. And if you have ninjas on your roof (the really bad ass red ninjas) it's gonna make people wonder what you got goin on in there.

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mjpd1

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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ADT showed up at my door within 24 hours of my house being broken into, offering me a security system. Might not be tactful, but it's effective. Now I've got a security system, along with most of my neighbors who they also hit up within days of the break-in.

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Bargaineering.com

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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It's both and it works, that's why people do it. Why do they call some lawyers ambulance chasers?

My friend's sister in law lived in a duplex and there was a fire in the other unit. The other unit was destroyed and hers was severely damaged, which made her half of the duplex pretty much worthless. While they were outside, watching the Fire Department battle the blaze, lawyers were already there. They have police scanners.

Is it despicable? Part of me says yes, but you need help and they go out of their usual routine to provide it. They make your life easier by appearing with no promise of a payday.

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mythago

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Bargaineering.com: Really? You might want to call your state's organization that licenses lawyers (probably the state bar). A lot of them have very strict prohibitions on contacting people in that manner.

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Bob Lu

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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IF the alarm system they sell works, it is helpful.

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StradTrumpeter

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I don't understand what the big deal is. Someone got murdered, which is what ADT's service helps prevent. ADT also likes money, so they seized the opportunity. This is no different than an air conditioning company advertising during a heat wave. When did we all become so easily offended?

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squinko

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@StradTrumpeter: I find it hard to believe that having a security system would automatically prevent a murder. It's not going to get the cops there any faster, and it doesn't provide any sort of physical defense against an armed intruder.

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pecan 3.14159265

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@StradTrumpeter: Because someone was murdered, they were holding a vigil, and ADT wanted to post fliers advertising their alarm system. Because it is insensitive and tacky.

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aka_mich

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Wait, the man claimed to be from ADT/DirectTV? That can't be a good combination.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I had a situation like this. No murder, but the day after a neighbor had his house broken into and ransacked (he was not home, luckily) the ADT guy was banging on the door. They actually ended up taking out a restraining order on him, as he would not leave them alone. I met with the sales rep when I was looking to buy my alarm system, creepy as hell.

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mbz32190

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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That's why I bought ADT signs years ago when you were still allowed to sell them on ebay...the sign is enough of a deterrent for most amateur burglars (and pesky ADT salespeople)

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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\"I think that it was very appropriate for this salesman to offer alarm systems. I would have been flattered that someone cared enough to come to me. Why are people so critical?\"

OK, THIS PERSON LIVES UNDER A ROCK.

ADT did not start pitching alarm systems because they \"care about you\". The sales reps are probably paid straight commission and a high crime area is the PERFECT place to start selling.

Yes, if there is a murder in your area you may want an alarm on your house. It's sales. Enough said.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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If you feel you need ADT to be safe, move to a better neighborhood. True, crime can happen anywhere but is anyone in that small NH town safer because they have an alarm system? Millions of people in the US live in areas where no one locks doors and 99% of them get by fine.

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squishyalt

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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So they make money selling alarm systems. So what?

Do any of the people here bitching about the salesperson offering free alarm systems think that there is ANYONE out there doing alarm systems and monitoring for FREE?

Of course not! It isn't possible! Wake the fuck up people! This salesperson saw a need and sought to fill it the only way possible - with an alarm system that has to be paid for.

What do all you brilliant bitchers suggest that would make these people safer tonight? And, can you pull it off?

If you aren't doing something better to make these people safer (or at least feel safer)- STFU!

But it's easier to bitch about somebody else' solution than it is to implement your own, isn't it?

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PSUSkier

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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This is certainly not an isolated incident. Not three days after a house was broken into and alcohol was stolen (kids) from someone's house, there were ADT fliers in every single door on our street. At least there wasn't any door to door.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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The Brinks/Broadview ads piss me the hell off. They make women look A) like targets, deer waiting for the wolves to attack, and B) like basketcases as they scream in terror and run from the c) stereotypical bad guy (hoodie, beard, dopey look).

Real burglars don't LOOK like TV burglars.

Most of the women I know pack guns and would blow the crap out of any vermin that tried to attack them. One woman carries two guns and more ammo than I do. Woe be to anyone who messes with her.

But the point is, these ads do nothing but play off fears and promote stupid images of women being fearful and weak and vulnerable, and they push the idea that an alarm system is going to make you 100% safer. Maybe. But maybe you need to be able to defend yourself and be brave and strong and rely on yourself to save yourself.

That's the message they should be giving to women.

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warped

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Go back to Russia if you don't like opportunistic people! Sales rep's job is to get the account. Give 'em a metal!

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Newvox

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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When everything is driven by sales numbers and revenues, there is absolutely no way to prevent stepping over the line from ethical, professional sales to opportunism, misrepresentation, coercion, and outright fraud (as in cash4gold).

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Pickled_Herring

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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ADT et al were going door to door in my neighborhood after a spike in violent crime (2 incidents in four months). I guess they missed the sign in my yard for my local company whom we couldn't be happier to use.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I live in Killeen, Texas. Even as they continue to LifeFlight victims of the mass shooting to area hospitals, an ADT salesperson just came to my door trying to sell us on home security. There's nothing their door-to-door solicitors won't stoop to in order to make a sale, from my experience.

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squishyalt

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@abbamouse: Yes! God forbid that an alarm salesman actually try and sell alarm systems to people in areas hit by crime!

WTF was s/he thinking! Those people don;t need alarms! They'd rather die in peace and quiet!

You sic 'em abbamouse!

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