So I will start off saying my husband and I have been shopping at Menards since they opened and because of our business we are there almost daily and sometime twice a day. This afternoon [November 7th, 2009] we came for the second time to get lumber and paint. I just bought my husband a surprise drywall gun last night from Menards so in exchange he thought it would be nice to look at a new drill for me.
I have had my eye on a light weight compact cordless so we started comparing them. He noticed a complete set of 2 drills, bat, chargers and so on but they were not on display, just in the box. Well I opened the box so I could see how light they are and they were perfect for me. I picked everything up that I removed from the box and stuffed it back in the box and set it in the cart. I tried to close the top of the box however because i removed everything it would not go back in place, So I left the box open.
We had several items in our cart and within a minute I found some drill bits to go with my new set so I tossed the small package in the cart. I turned my back to talk to my husband about more bits and some guy comes cruising around the corner grabs my cart and takes off walking very fast. "HEY you have my cart!" I yelled to the guy as he was already down the aisle. He let go of the cart said sorry and disappeared around the corner leaving my cart. I walked down, grabbed the cart, and came back to my husband. Very strange we both thought but we just continued shopping.
Over to building materials we went before checking out. We checked our items out (over $300.00) and the cashier never questioned the open box or looked inside.
We leave the store and a man walks up and asks for our receipt. My husband went to pull it out of his wallet and before he gets it out the guy reaches into the drill box and pulls out the small pack of drill bits. He looks at us and said you took these. We replied oh they must have been missed we will come back in and pay for them.
The guy who we now know as security asked us to come back inside. We went inside expecting to pay for the $5.99 drill bits and he tells us we have to fill out an incident paper.
They take our cart full of $300.00 worth of stuff and lead us into the security room. Inside the room we are sitting in silence while this guy is filling out paperwork and a lady that works as a CSM(?) is standing guard at the door like we are hard criminals ready to flee the country.
After several minutes of silence I ask if I am being charged for something. The security man said no I just need you to fill out this paperwork and give me your drivers license.
So I hand over my license and he said to me that he'd seen the drill bits on top of the open box then he'd seen us walk into the checkouts and not pay for them. I could not believe what I was hearing. I told him over and over this is a mistake I threw the bits in the cart and they must have landed on the box. The guard then said maybe they slipped further in the box when you moved your cart. He said well that sounds like you're just having bad luck. My husband asked if they'd seen me put the package in the box. He would not respond.
He then told me I have 2 choices. I can pay Menards $150.00 or they will call the police and charge me with theft and a $350.00 fine. We could not believe what was happening. CHARGE ME WITH THEFT! JUST BAD LUCK??? What is happening! Have they gone crazy!
I have thrown items in my cart many times and never thought twice about it. I understand if the bits were in my pocket or hidden under everything in the box but they were on top of a opened box that the cashier never even looked in the box. Honest mistake is what I call it not bad luck or theft.
So now I am in tears and faced with a choice I never thought I would make in my life. We run a professional business and I would never want to risk my reputation by being hauled out of Menards in front of everyone by the police. I was told to sign the paperwork and pay the $150.00 to avoid this from happening. So I signed and paid what they called a restitution. They refused to give me a copy of the paperwork I signed. Then they sent us on our way with tears in my eyes. I went quietly but I can't let this go.
"Just having bad luck???? (Beloit Menards)" [janesville.craigslist.org] (Thanks to M!)
(Photo: TheTruthAbout...)
@wiguy45: Well, I had no idea. I kept reading this thing, thinking what a prick... I have been very loyal to Menards, but that party is over.
]]>PLEASE follow up on what happens here!
Will Mennards investigate and try to fix their personnel problem?
OR will Mennards try to threaten this website to take down the article?
Please follow up with any contacts from Mennards on this!
]]>Shoplifters open boxes. You opened the box.
Shoplifters put items in the box that they want to steal. You tossed an item into the open box.
Shoplifters leave without paying for all items. You left without paying for all items.
When caught, shoplifters offer to pay for the item. When caught, you offered to pay for the item.
Your actions - and the result - were identical to those of a shoplifter. In most states walking out of a store without paying for an item is a crime.
In the future I suggest that you ask an employee (or Customer Service) to open the box and to repackage the contents.
]]>If she would have maintained her right not to be search, it seems like there might be less reason to believe that there would be reason to detain...but that doesn't fit the facts as she stated them.
]]>I'm making the assumption that all of this applies in this situation.
]]>"We leave the store and a man walks up and asks for our receipt."
Nobody (who has made a lawful purchase) should ever comply with this. Say "fuck off," and if they attack you, lawsuit. Dumb, never ever comply with this, unless you are a thief and don't want to turn it into a felony.
]]>The OP should go back to the manager and ask (nicely) for a copy of the paperwork. If it's not found, there might be a couple of rent-a-cops looking for their next victims.
]]>This lady posted a one-sided story (on Craigslist, no less) and her version of it is spotty at best.
Intimidation? Physically prevented from leaving? Not based on what she posted. She may have felt intimidated...but is it the legal definition of intimidation? She didn't even try to leave. She *assumed* she couldn't leave. The person "guarding" the door could have just as easily stepped aside. Therefore, no false imprisonment.
Besides, as I've mentioned repeatedly (and you seem to ignore by your "rent-a-cops" comment, so check again), there is such a thing as the shopkeeper's privilege. If the guards believed she stole something, they are allowed to use reasonable means to keep her there. To be sure, they can only do it until cops come, but, frankly, I'm not going to put my trust in her one-sided story and, therefore, It's not entirely clear what happened.
Did they threaten her? She didn't mention it. It's not duress (not the legal definition, anyway).
>>> "Either you let me go now and leave with the merchandise I paid for, or I will call the police myself and file charges against YOU personally AND the company. What's your decision?"
RIGHT! But she didn't do that, did she? She assumed the worst, signed something without reading it, and paid money with no questions asked. That's on her. She agreed to it. Per many other posts, the civil demand is legal (and I believe it, too. It makes sense considering that one may settle a case at any time before a civil judgment).
On the other hand, why do you think they would have changed their tune? If she didn't agree to the civil demand, I would have called the cops.
I guess it comes down to this: if the guards actually believe that she stole the bits (and there's really no indication from this woman that they wouldn't believe that), AND there is such thing as the shopkeeper's privilege (and there is), AND if there's such a thing as civil demand, Menards didn't do anything wrong.
]]>That does not sound right to me...
]]>These people's business required that they be in the store at least once or twice a day? These people must have done something prior to this to get store security's attention. Signing the form and paying $150 sounds like a load to me. I can't see these people as victims because they cooperated so stupidly.
]]>@billy:
You're missing the point, Billy.
They were sat down in the security room with the security guard behind his desk and another store employee "guarding" the door.
This is kidnapping.
Unless you are in an interview room WITH THE POLICE and being charged with a crime, in which case this is not illegal. ANY other circumstance and this becomes DURESS as you are being PHYSICALLY prevented from leaving even though there are no charges being filed (The security guard said no when they asked if they are being charged. At the moment the security guard said no, they were no longer under ANY obligation to stay in that room. If they say someone was guarding the door, that's FALSE IMPRISONMENT, hence kidnapping. This is a VERY serious charge.)
Last I checked, rent-a-cops do not have the legal right to detain ANYONE against their will. They are not the police.
If that guard had detained me, I would have essentially told him "Either you let me go now and leave with the merchandise I paid for, or I will call the police myself and file charges against YOU personally AND the company. What's your decision?"
Very simple.. and had the op said something to that effect, the guard would have changed his tune.. FAST.
]]>[privateofficernews.wordpress.com]
The article gives an example of a man detained by Home Depot for "stealing" a couple of screws which he'd brought from home so that he could match the threads.
]]>First, why would you sign and essentially admit your guilt? Second, contact a lawyer and the local news media and have them contact Menards' corporate office to file an official complaint. Third, it looks like Menards and other stores have a nice side business of extorting money out of honest but naive public, their customers!!! This is an outrageous practice that deserves local if not national spotlight for public attention on what these stores are doing to their customer base. You may risk losing some money (court fees and fines) and time, if in fact you do lose the case, but these corporations have a lot more at stake with their name, image and faith from their customer base. I don't think they would want to wager or risk these for a measly $5.99.
]]>What you are arguing, though, is that a store (or police, for that matter) would NEVER be able to detain anybody if they reasonably believed she was stealing. I'm premising my argument on the fact that stores CAN detain you if they believe you are stealing. As others have pointed out, many jurisdictions DO allow some self help in this form.
If she was so worried about her reputation, she could have called the police and had them sort it out. Even if the police didn't believe her, it's a little too bad. She could, then, sort it out in front of a judge: that's what they are there for. As it stands now, she signed a document admitting (I'm assuming) that she stole something. How does that help her reputation?
]]>If she refused to sign and the store didn't do either of the above-two options, THEN I'd say she's imprisoned or falsely imprisoned.
]]>If you think otherwise, please feel free....
]]>Again, her choice was sign the admission and pay OR call the police. As others have asked, why didn't she just call the police?
]]>@Toffeecake: That reminds me of My Cousin Vinny (with the tuna fish cans in the pocket). Good thing you didn't end up on trial for murder!
]]>I say call the cops, go back to the store, talk to the manager (Not some dumb supervisor under the sway of the big, mean security guard.) Tell them that if they don't pay you BACK your money AND issue a PUBLIC apology, that you will press kidnapping charges (the supervisor blocking the door has NO right to keep you from leaving if you're not being charged with anything, that's unlawfull detainment, hence kidnapping.) harassment charges and extortion charges.
That should get the (obviously corrupt) security guard fired AND also threaten physical assault charges if he so much as laid a finger on you.
This should get the attention of the store management pretty quickly, and get your situation resolved even faster.
Peice of mind = raising hell at a store that you have more than frequently visited and has broken several laws and damaged your rights.
By the way, I am NOT a lawyer. Please take this advice at face value.
]]>Um, If you live in Janesville(or almost any other city) where a Wal-Mart is you will notice a police booth. That is because any incidents in-store will involve the police. I would not sit idle. Get the police involved as soon as possible it will be on cameras that record unless the entire store is in on this. Do not hesitate! That is not only extortion but strong-arm robbery because you were held against your will without police involment.
]]>@Wombatish:
Press charges???
It is up to the DA to charge regardless if you do something call "press charges". People watch too many movies.
]]>@kc8dhx:
It is illegal if they hold you against your will.
@TCama:
If they dont let you leave it is extortion.
@bogartbrown:
If you are in the store then no theft was committed. All you have to do is give them the item and leave with what you paid for. Just ignore them.
If they give you problems call the police and tell them you are being kidnapped by the store security.
THe cops would call them all retards and let you go.
You can even try to have the store security arrested.
You should have given the bits and left, if they held you then you should have called the police.
The police would have called all of them retards and let you leave.
]]>I'd definitely threaten a lawsuit & get a lawyer to subpoena them for the surveillance video.
]]>It's hilarious to see the knee jerk reactions on this site. Did Chris Walters even bother attemping to contact this annonymous Craigslist poster regarding their completely ridiculous story? $100 says he didn't.
]]>I don't think things add up with what she writes on "Craig's List". I work retail and you can not stop people unless you have seen exactly where the item was put, and watched the person from the time it happen until they walk out with the unpaid item. You then have to be able to tell exactly where the items where hiden. From the story she wrote the security guard was able to do that without hesitation. I don't think her story rings true and if it was an accident the ask to speak with the police not the L.P.
I am sorry I have heard everything. People steal alot more than I think you realize. They steal used makeup and perfume testers. They will stand there with a baggy and scoop face cream out of a jar so they don't have to pay for it. They will use almost an entire bottle of something and then come back in and demand thier money back. They take their old shoes off and put them in boxes and walk out with new ones. I have seen them bring their little kids in so they can teach them how to steal too. I have seen judges wives and Church Deacon's wifes all steal there is no one type of person that steals. I don't really trust most people.
Menards security has gotten some *really* bad press before for this kind of crap!
]]>@Melt: Damn, that was some excellent reading.
]]>They usually stop you right on the edge of the stores property so it's easy to prove intent (you were clearly leaving) but untrained store personnel are allowed to stop you on store property. They can't detain you on someone else's property.
The magical zone is past the registers but before the parking lot (very few stores own/rent the parking lot as well, it belongs to the management company).
]]>And if you don't pay a civil demand, it's sent to collections.
You have literally no chance to fight these things off, other than to not sign the paperwork.
But unless you expressly know your rights, you will probably be scared into doing just that. That's what they bank on.
]]>@billy: I hear waterboarding is the latest tool in generating confessions.
]]>For example, I'm not allowed to pull a gun out on a cop who does the same while arresting me, since the cop is acting within the law. The same goes if you replace the cop with anyone else making a lawful arrest (i.e. someone making a citizen's arrest).
]]>Menards just lost more business than $5.99 through this post. Seriously, has anyone considered the impact of this site? This would be something like the Jim Cramer effect.
]]>If accused of a crime by any store LPO or the police do not talk to them without your attorney. Period. Anything you say will be used against you! Notice, there is absolutely NO requirement for any exculpatory statement to be included.
Please watch this if you haven't already:
[video.google.com]
@Corporate_guy: Theft involves intent, you know that, right?
Also, real cops hate, HATE, loss prevention personnel. If a cop has to waste any time on this kind of issue, particularly where the accused demonstrates a desire to pay for the item and a reasonable story, the cop is likely to just roll his eyes and tell LP to suck it.
]]>If one has a permit to carry a firearm, and they were detained in such a way, does anyone know if it would be lawful to draw a weapon? I mean this in the cases where the security/LP person makes an effort to detain you after you have said "good day." As I understand the laws, and as a person would feel in such a situation (beign with a security guard and having someone else "guard" the door) it would not be illegal to draw a pistol on someone preventing you from leaving.
]]>Cops most of the time will use the excuse that it is not their job to interpret the law when they make obvious mistakes. But this is one instance where that excuse enables them to arrest you for shoplifting.
Most likely a good cop would just try to talk the idiot store out of it, but if they really want you arrested, you will probably be arrested.
Then you get to tell your story to a judge. This means you have to go to court and pay for a lawyer. No matter how innocent you are if you show up without a lawyer you will be found guilty.
Fighting this after signing stuff is also pointless. The paperwork probably says if you sue them or reverse the 150 dollar fee, they will report you to the police. The police will charge you because the paperwork probably says you admit to theft. Then a lawyer cannot even save you in court.
]]>@PLATTWORX: I'm sure no one will read to page 4, but just in case - the OP probably paid because she was scared.
A nearly identical situation happened to me when I was in high school. I didn't know my rights, and I was afraid/worried about missing work while I waited for the cops to show up, taking time and money to fight potential shoplifting charges, having the explain the entire situation to every damn person I know, etc, etc.
This woman says she didn't want everyone to see her dragged out of Menards in handcuffs. I can sympathize. Her friends and colleagues may very well be the sort of people who think only the guilty are ever arrested.
]]>If I saw somebody stealing something out of my house and I told them, "give it back or I'll call the police," would they be "under duress" if they actually gave it back?
Duress is, "sign this or I'll break your legs"...literally.
]]>"I can pay Menards $150.00 or they will call the police and charge me with theft and a $350.00 fine."
Where do they get this $350 figure? Is it the standard local court fine for convicted shoplifters?
]]>@Difdi: That's why I make my own egg nog! :)
]]>This goon asked for $150. Not $5. He's not going for restitution. He's looking to get money out of her. And since he obtained that money by threatening her with the cops, it's extortion. Not restitution.
]]>@Difdi: You are not a lawyer. You are incorrect about what extortion is.
]]>@Ohpine: Except you are taking an awful risk that the security guard isn't A) an off duty cop, B) a relative of whatever uneducated police officer shows up, or C) an freaking lunatic who will break your phone, physically assault you and then claim you resisted his "lawful detention".
]]>She stopped at the receipt checker and even if she said she was going to "come back in and pay for them" she had to have still be inside the store if her receipt was being checked.
]]>I wonder if the security jerk was the one who grabbed her cart and walked away with it. She should probably call the cops and the headquarters of the store about this.
]]>At least if you shoplift at Walmart, they won't try to extort you; they call the cops everytime. Drives the cops crazy in these parts. At one Walmart I went to, about 9/10 times I went there would be cops out front.
]]>@billy: such as imprisonment and the only way of getting free is signing?
]]>So they threaten to charge you. Bow up and tell them there's not a jury around who would convict an upstanding business owner who has purchased $300 in goods on charges of shoplifting $6 in merchandise at the same time. Then tell them that if they persist in going down this road that you'd welcome them calling the police as it would spare you the trouble of having to call them yourself to lodge extortion charges against the security guard and manager.
Now that it's said and done, I'd go ahead and call that cop and file those extortion charges and see just how long this lasts. And call a damn reporter or two while you're at it and embarrass this wreck of a company to no end. They apparently deserve it if they're running an extortion racket like that.
But whatever you do, grow the damn spine.
]]>Call Menards upper management, call the cops. It sounds like you didn't do anything wrong, and that the store definitely did.
Good luck.
]]>ANyhow, if someone believe I did something wrong and threaten to call the police, I would probably tell them to go ahead because I would trust the police to make the right decision. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen, as we have seen in some receipt-check instances. In addition, you can't be sure if the security guard might embellish things a bit, just to make sure you fit the shoplifter profile to a dot with the police. If I had a suspicion that this might happen, I might also go with the $150 'fee'. However, I would make sure to get copies of everything I signed, and if I had already signed and didn't get it, to prove everything was solved, I would be calling the police myself.
When it's all said and done, if this story is exactly like it is told here, it is very bad judgment on the part of Menards. I used to work retail and we could not risk accusing anyone of shoplifting unless we were 110% sure. Better to let 3 get away than accuse an innocent person in front of everyone. This si likely to cost Menards more in lost revenue than they could ever make up in loss prevention this way.
]]>"It was an unintentional mistake, and I didn't notice the drill bits. I'd be happy to pay for the drill bits or leave them here and shop elsewhere. Either way, I will now be leaving. If you attempt to stop me, I will call the police and press charges against you for false imprisonment. Good day."
]]>Grapes are expensive. It's only prudent to try one before buying a bunch.
]]>My advise to everyone is buy a small hidden camera for these situations. They tape us on their cameras for their safety so it's only obvious that we need to also tape them for our safety. A small usb pen camera runs about $50. Just turn it on when needed... and the proof is there.
]]>My store wouldn't even mark stuff down if it had stains on it, because people would bring stuff in to PUT stains on the stuff they wanted.
]]>When people get used to that idea, and the stores want to impose a little more on us, it's on to the receipt checks at the doors. They are there to 'prevent theft and keep prices low.' But again, 'If you aren't a criminal then it shouldn't bother you.' You can search this very site for yourself and find plenty of problems that arose from receipt checks at the doors.
And now what have we come to? This story. But it's ok because they are doing it to 'prevent theft and keep prices low.' And really, 'If you aren't a criminal then this shouldn't bother you.'
]]>I've also seen/heard of people helping themselves to "freebies"...people eating some grapes in the grocery store, grabbing a few little items here and there when making a big purchase because they think they are entitled to something just because they are a regular shopper or are making a big $ purchase that day.
]]>@ganzhimself: I know when we read these types of stories we tend to side with the person who submitted it, but keep in mind that there are always two sides to every story.
There could be a lot more to this story than what has been posted here, and the author could have embellished details in order for her story to be more dramatic.
I'm not defending Menards here since I have no idea what really happened, but I'm not about to make my purchasing decisions based upon one isolated incident at one store based upon the comments of an anonymous poster who I will never meet. If we start to hear about similar stories from other Menards then so be it, but one case?
Find me a store anywhere in the nation that has been open for more than 10 minutes where a customer doesn't think he or she has been wronged. If you won't shop anywhere where something like this has happened, you will need to avoid every retail store in the country.
]]>And since it's considered a debt, they just send it to collection if you don't pay. And the police are not going to take your complaint based on the format of their letter... the worst you could do is get them in trouble with the Bar.
In this case, it's a little different, since it did happen in person, but technically that paperwork she signed was probably the civil demand paperwork.
While I agree that civil demand blows chunks (it's being abused at this point.. it's supposed to be for -actual- shoplifting and -actual- damages, not padding your bottom line), it would all be on the up and up. It just has to be a written demand, not a letter.
]]>I would have offered to drive with them to the police station and take a lie detector test right then and there. Of course it might be more complicated than that to arrange for one! They are not available on demand. But just letting them know you're willing to go that far might help to prove it was truly an accident and you're serious about clearing your good name.
]]>Jeez, it looks as if store chains have figured out yet another pathetic way to squeeze money out of customers -- perish the thought they would EVER reduce the salary of their top execs!
I would definitely write to Menards corporate and find out if this payoff is their policy -- or the policy of the local store or what.
If it is company policy -- I would find another store that doesn't extort and humiliate customers in this way. I'd even consider ordering stuff online -- you'd probably get free shipping with a purchase over a certain amount, and you might be able to save on sales tax to boot.
]]>Again, that's the paranoid in me speaking. But it still sounds ridiculously shady, especially the refusing to give you a copy of the document you just signed. Which, I'm pretty sure, may be against the law, depending on where this took place.
]]>Menards supports illegal detention and extortion? Blimey.
]]>@Charlotte Rae's Web: Im not sure why you think that, people get arrested for shoplifting all the time, if a store wants to prosecute you cant just say "whoops you caught me ill pay for it now" You dont think the police have heard a million different stories like this from real shoplifters? How are they supposed to be able to know if they were telling the truth?
]]>a) The security gaurd is working with the mysterious cart stealer.
b) The OP is trying to cover up with some kind of weird story.
If the product is hidden enough for a cashier not to notice it, but the security gaurd knew it was in there, then either the security gaurd had to watch them put it in there, or was working with this "mysterious cart-stealer" to put it in there.
If the store has security cameras, I would want to see the recordings to see what the heck actually went on with this strange cart-stealing person (if he actually exists)
People opening boxes in a store happens, and it seems like it would be an easy way to steal something if you wanted to. You could then make up an easy excuse like "oh, it must have just fallen in".
As entertaining as the OPs story is, the idea that a security guy works out a plot with a mysterious person, to run off with carts and hide product inside of already open boxes in order to extort restitution payment seems less likely than this being ficticous.
]]>@The Dude: And you are a private security guard where, Dude??
I suspect you have a defective sympathy scale. Perhaps you should return it for one that works.
]]>This is one place where, even though the OP made mistakes, I can't criticize her. An almost identical thing happened to me when I was a teenager. I made the decisions I made because I was terrified and had no idea what my rights were.
]]>I've never heard of Menards, but I'd never shop anywhere with such a stupid name anyway. What I would have done was given Mr. security boy the ass whoopin' of his miserable life. Guess where the pen he offered me to sign his paper with, would have wound up?
]]>@Melt: Great quote from one of the articles:
"He's a loner. He's normally by himself and just moves in and out of the shadows," says Indianapolis Motor Speedway track historian Donald Davidson. Menard rarely gives interviews and refused to grant one for this article. Even those who know him well describe him in contradictory terms, as both hero and villain; the very model of a successful American entrepreneur; both brilliant and charming, yet also a foul-mouthed micromanager and a perfectionist who can be cruelly demanding with employees.
Even those closest to Menard are not sure what drives him. The state's richest man may well be one of its least known.
]]>Some great articles on the founder of Menard's here...He's nuts:
How John Menard got beaten by his own attorney:
[www.milwaukeemagazine.com]
Big Money:
[www.milwaukeemagazine.com]
Legal Hell:
[www.milwaukeemagazine.com]
Its not stealing if the cashier makes a mistake and you don't notice.
]]>@dantsea:
They're still using that old dude for the commercials, right?
]]>Chances are the DA will see it as a waste of time and will dismiss it and/or the judge will laugh it out of court.
]]>This trouble for a $6 drill bit?
]]>The moral I took from this story was: don't take instructions from a private security guard. Their rights to search you or your belongings or physically detain you are limited. Once it becomes obvious you're in a situation that isn't going to resolve itself insist that the police be called. Most of all, remain in a public place and don't agree to step into a 'private office.'
]]>There is a lesson to be learned here.
Never Sign ANYTHING without reading it.
More importantly this poster likely has a lawyer so a call should have been made to them and your statement to the security guard is I am not allowed to sign anything without my lawyer handling it.
I hope the poster has returned their $300 purchase.
]]>I don't even blame the cashier 100%... I should have paid closer attention to what she was scanning.
]]>Not saying she stole, because it sounds like she probably didn't, but this is one of many reasons not to take apart boxes without permission...the first of which is that it's just plain rude.
]]>(I am assuming the law in Wisconsin is similar to the Texas law).
]]>And they're allowed to multiply the amount b/c the item lost value by being stolen or some bullshit.
I paid it once when I was young and stupider for a DVD a cashier forgot to ring up.
]]>Did the OP pay the bribe with a credit card? get them to take the money back.
]]>I know this because I do it too. When I catch a student cheating, I know that the school will ALWAYS accept the students bogus explanation as to why they brought notes into the exam. So, the only for me to see justice done is to bluff. "Listen Johnny, I'm going to level with you. Either take a zero on this exam or I'll go to *make up official sounding name* and get you kicked out."
]]>They do have a right to see what they signed and to get a copy. I would call the store manager for that.
]]>Lay off, sheesh.
]]>@leftturnonred: sounds like what the RIAA does. Pay even though they have no evidence.
]]>943.50 Retail theft. (1) In this section:
(a) "Merchant" includes any "merchant" as defined in s.
402.104 (3) or any innkeeper, motelkeeper or hotelkeeper.
(ar) "Theft detection device" means any tag or other device that is used to prevent or detect theft and that is attached to merchandise held for resale by a merchant or to property of a merchant.
(as) "Theft detection device remover" means any tool or
device used, designed for use or primarily intended for use in removing a theft detection device from merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of a merchant.
(at) "Theft detection shielding device" means any laminated or coated bag or device designed to shield merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of a merchant from being detected by an electronic or magnetic theft alarm sensor.
(b) "Value of merchandise" means:
1. For property of the merchant, the value of the property; or
2. For merchandise held for resale, the merchant's stated price of the merchandise or, in the event of altering, transferring or removing a price marking or causing a cash register or other sales device to reflect less than the merchant's stated price, the difference between the merchant's stated price of the merchandise and the altered price.
(1m) A person may be penalized as provided in sub. (4) if he or she does any of the following without the merchant's consent and with intent to deprive the merchant permanently of possession or the full purchase price of the merchandise or property:
(a) Intentionally alters indicia of price or value of merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of a merchant.
(b) Intentionally takes and carries away merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of a merchant.
(c) Intentionally transfers merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of a merchant.
(d) Intentionally conceals merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of a merchant.
(e) Intentionally retains possession of merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of a merchant.
(f) While anywhere in the merchant's store, intentionally removes a theft detection device from merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of a merchant.
(g) Uses, or possesses with intent to use, a theft detection shielding device to shield merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of merchant from being detected by an electronicor magnetic theft alarm sensor.
(h) Uses, or possesses with intent to use, a theft detection device remover to remove a theft detection device from merchandise held for resale by a merchant or property of a merchant.
(3) A merchant, a merchant's adult employee or a merchant's security agent who has reasonable cause for believing that a person has violated this section in his or her presence may detain the person in a reasonable manner for a reasonable length of time to
deliver the person to a peace officer, or to his or her parent or guardian in the case of a minor. The detained person must be promptly informed of the purpose for the detention and be permitted to make phone calls, but he or she shall not be interrogated or searched against his or her will before the arrival of a peace officer
who may conduct a lawful interrogation of the accused person. The merchant, merchant's adult employee or merchant's security agent may release the detained person before the arrival of a peace officer or parent or guardian. Any merchant, merchant's adult employee or merchant's security agent who acts in good faith in
any act authorized under this section is immune from civil or criminal liability for those acts.
So especially with regards to section 3, they did interrogate, accost, hold without notice, and coerce the op. Further, good luck proving intent in this case. The Op should have called the cops, the security goon for Menards should have been hauled away, and everyone should have gone their own way.
]]>I would take this STRAIGHT to the local news because "Menards" is CLEARLY extorting hush money from its customers.
]]>WHY ON EARTH DID THIS PERSON PAY?????????????? You let the cops be called and the store must prove the offense!
Something isn't right here or the OP is not very savvy... I am stunned.
]]>If a merchant demands ID for a purchase, call 1-800-VISA-911 and report them.
]]>@Scazza: Actually, these days, I'd be willing to bet a fin that Beijing isn't as bad.
]]>@DD_838: Well if she's 4'11 and he's 6'5 we still live in a world where "might makes right"...
]]>How do you like my interpretation?
]]>@strathmeyer: You don't have to be a lawyer to grow a brain and some common sense.
]]>They were LYING to you trying to scare you into paying and you fell for the scam.
]]>@shadowkahn: Oh yeah? I see your utility knife, and raise you a reciprocating saw! Biotch!
]]>Oh My God, I can't believe I just read that... Where do you think you live? Beijing?
]]>@The_Red_Monkey: You don't need to be a lawyer. You just need to have common sense.
]]>@MEoip: Call their bluff, and raise all in.
]]>@Nicole: You mean awful. Or awful/awesome. Time for some coffee! Starbucks has some eggnog latte for you...
]]>@G.O.B.: Come on!: The rent-a-cop could fuck himself with the drill bits! Now, that's convenience.
]]>@AustinTXProgrammer: Counsel, not "council".
]]>I'm still looking for email addresses.
]]>Didn't matter that the screw was obviously something that had been removed from a piece of equipment.
Good news was, he wasn't the only security guard in the store. When he tried to take me into the back room, his boss realized he was being an utter dumbass, apologized and sent me on my way.
I suspect, and sincerely hope, that that particular security guard didn't stay a security guard for much longer after that.
]]>I had to pay TJX over $200 to get out of a criminal charge for a, er, regrettable decision on my part. This is standard business. It's not fair, but, it's standard.
]]>First of all, Menards had the 5 point checklist they need to accuse someone of shoplifting. The need to witness: 1) customer entering the store, 2) taking the item in question, 3) hiding the item, 4) walk past the point of sale without paying for the item, 5) attempting to leave the establishment. From the article, it sounds like they had at least numbers 2 through 5.
False arrest, false accusation, and slander aren't applicable, since they did in fact take an item without paying for it. And the store has the right to detain customers when there is sufficient evidence of shoplifting.
Now, are they being complete jerks by doing all of this? Absolutely, no question. But I don't know if there's anything that can be done about it (legally). Maybe I'm wrong.
]]>They only way I can see this is as a rogues scamming clients for extra cash. Nothing else makes sense.
A security guard does a citizen's arrest - he is NOT law enforcement. There are a handful of cardinal rules that must ALL be there for an interception to go on legally, otherwise it is illegal incarceration. And security agencies drill their employees with these rules: They know any lapse opens the door to valid and expensive lawsuits, almost 100% of them lost.
As to threaten calling the police unless you do XXX, that's definitely extortion. You call, or you do not call - but NEVER threaten.
Call a lawyer. Have the LAWYER call Menard. File a complaint with the police. Period.
]]>I would NOT have allowed them to take the items I paid for ANYWHERE expect MAYBE to my vehicle. If they didn't want me to go back and pay for the drill bits, I would have told them to keep them and continued leaving. If they threatened to call the police, I'd have whipped out my cell and dialed 911 myself.
]]>It's bargaining with yourself.
]]>I hope the people in this story do get a good lawyer. They need one to turn their situation around. It is amazing what a bully can make you sign and pay when you feel your business, i.e. your livelihood is threatened. How awful. I'm glad we don't have Menards in our area, and if they ever come here, I'll put this story out there.
]]>Do you even know what the god phone has or are you just assuming like a moron
]]>Its called a civil demand and is perfectly legal in most states for use with shoplifters
Its not extortion at all folks...
]]>BTW, there is an app for that, and it comes with the phone pre-loaded.
douch.
]]>I am with her on everything else, though. I was treated like a thief at a Walmart once. I had bought a couple of big plastic containers (nesting) and the cashier didn't ring up 2, because she didn't notice they were separate items. I didn't notice that she didn't notice because I had a billion other things in my cart. I foolishly handed the bouncer my receipt at the door (this was before I started reading Consumerist et al. and knew I didn't have to do that). She had a loving fit when she discovered the extra plastic bin in my cart (mind you it's like $3 at the most) and snatched it out of my cart and demanded I leave the store. She made a huge spectacle in front of all the shoppers.
Not nearly as bad as the OP, but I can sympathize.
]]>@soloudinhere: I agree with you %100. I hated working in retail and going around and finding rude customers who have opened tons of things then just left them laying around. THAT in it self is a big red flag since a lot of times when people steal things, they open the package and remove the contents.
]]>I was buying plumbing fittings and I went thru the self-checkout at Home Depot. As I practice shotgun plumbing, I ended up returning all the ones that weren't right. Apparently I threw a fitting in the bag that hadn't scanned properly and it was light enough that it didn't register on the scale. Of course, it wasn't on the slip when I returned it. The clerk just went "hummph", recognized me as a repeat customer and threw the fitting in the return bin without having me arrested.
I was really worried for about 10 seconds because it was an honest mistake. They have failed to scan a frickin' door before and I was too scared to go back and try to pay for it, for fear of being accused of shoplifting.
]]>But we'd have been fired if we'd demanded money from a shoplifter, and, at least in my store, if we'd tried to extort it the manager would have turned us over to the cops to face charges himself.
]]>That's a shame, if true (guys, it's a craigslist post). Menard's has always had customer service when I go.
I do remember a couple high school friends of mine working there saying that they were pretty aggressive when it came to shoplifting. I wonder if this couple had been a little less hysterical and a little more assertive whether one of the shift managers would have seen how ridiculous the whole situation was.
]]>A good lawyer would have them begging you to take back your money....and more!
Mac
]]>Got proof of the shake-down payment?
]]>The lady took off the stickers so she was trying to steal them but something similar happened to my mom. She forgot her glasses at home. So when she went to the store one of the employees told her she could use the store glasses. She finished her shopping and forgot she was wearing the Stores glasses and not her's until the Person at the cash register asked if she wanted to buy those as well.
]]>It's incredibly rude to take apart a retail box (especially if you can't put it back together, which she couldn't) and it opens you up for this kind of thing.
Ask an associate to open it for you. It's not yours to demolish until you've paid for it.
/end rant.
]]>Has anyone heard of these kinds of incidents at Lowes? I'm running out of hardware stores.
]]>To those who think the whole mistaken cart thing is some gian conspiracy...it happens alot. Ive had my cart taken several times when in busy stores, and ive take somones elses on at least 1 occasion. It just happens when you arent paying attention.
The issue here is that she signed the paperwork. Unless a store has you on video doing the following:
1. Sticking someting in the box on purpose.
2. Walking out with it knowingly not paid for
they will lose a shop lifting charge on you. Otherwise it is just too easy to claim as a mistake.
]]>"at which point he'll be taking on a second misdemeanor for trying to prevent you from contacting the police in an emergency."
Plus assault for lunging at you, and battery for laying a hand on you or any equipment connected to your person (namely the phone).
And don't forget false arrest, false accusation, slander, false imprisonment, and theft (of the $150), because having worked security at Menards while putting myself through college, I can tell you that this is not standard procedure for busting shoplifters.
]]>They need to get in contact with Menard's corporate or even better go file a police report for extortion. Had a cop actually shown up and heard the entire story and the instance that the items were in the cart they are probably going to try to talk the store manager out of pressing charges.
]]>Even allowing for the kind of fluster-muddled recollections people get in situations like this, it sounds like they want to claim they watched the OP's cart demonstrate something visible at the time it went through checkout.
]]>Menards has a very aggressive attitude toward shoplifting, by reputation.
$6 drill bits IS a small item, but shoplifters could buy a cartload of stuff to hide the shoplifted item, get away with it, and then return the other camouflage items on the receipt. Success! but for $6??
The fault here is that there is (probably) a corporate policy of zero tolerance. No allowance for common sense. On top of that, there is probably pressure on the Loss Prevention Dept. to 'catch' their quota. It's a shame, because they will lose a lot of business from this.
Checkers at my Menards go through the items, looking for stuff - They will pick up 80# bags of softener salt to make sure nothing is between them. One told me they find expensive saw blades like this all the time, which the customer 'forgot'about.
Altogether, I'd say don't sign, though.
@Ohpine: no, they were her bits. She says so. The guy grabbing her cart probabaly was just a guy who grabbed the wrong cart, ive done this before and have had it done to me before.
]]>I also would have signed nothing nor handed over my license. I don't even show my license when a clerk asks me for it when using a credit card (which they are not really allowed to do in my state).
]]>@GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn:2 weeks ago I walked out of walmart with a $12 pair of reading glasses hanging from my shirt. I had left mine in the car and had "borrowed them to read a medicine label. I discovered them when I put my sealtbelt on and promptly returned them to the greeter at the door. I don't know who was more surprised.
]]>Agreed I would get my ducks in a row and then go to my bank and ask them for a chargeback. I would have my attorney contact the store and the police and tell them whats going on and why I am requesting the chargeback, and then I would take this business to court (provided my attorney has enough evidence.) and humiliate and sue the pants off of them. Lets see who will be laughing now.
]]>Extortion, outwresting, or exaction is a criminal offense which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion.
]]>But if you're not a shoplifter, stay the hell out of those back rooms.
]]>Shouldn't be difficult to track that down, then track down surveillance video from their time in the store. Then call the police and file a report for attempted extortion.
Or... just wait 24 hours for someone from Menards corporate to get a whiff of this story and fall all over him or herself to contact the OP and arrange appropriate compensation (as well as a come-to-jesus meeting with the store manager) before this blows up into an even larger PR disaster than it already is :)
]]>Buyer has something small under larger items in the cart, forgets about it, leaves then security magically appears. Buyer offers to pay for mistaken item, but security whisks them away and offers an extortion payment in lieu of theft charge.
Similar story here:
[www.my3cents.com]
This just seems too weird.
But I just got my "birthday coupon" for a free 13-in-1 pocket tool, so I have to go at least one more time...
]]>@G.O.B.: Come on!: #2 is a very important point. Why the HELL would they bother?
]]>As others said, I would have called the cops myself right away - and refused to hand over any money.
Did you pay cash or credit?
]]>1. Police arrives and gets the explanation from asshole mall-cop and whatever likewise store manager is on hand.
2. The couple explains that they paid for $300 in goods; why would they bother stealing $5.99 in drill bits?
3. (Increasingly un)common sense prevails...(?)
You (1) signed something that they wouldn't even give you a copy of and (2) gave them $150? I'm sorry, but that wouldn't fly for 1 second with me!
]]>I understand why you complied. It wasn't the "protecting my civil rights" right thing to do but you were afraid and did not want to cause a stir. My advice to you is to now call an attorney. A huge one that can guarantee you some sort of victory. Do not use a single item you purchased and preserve your receipt. Do this quickly. Hopefully the lawyer will suggest you file a police report. I would also be concerned about getting the video footage from inside and outside the store before they chuck it. Protect yourself. You never know when this thing could come back and bite you or your family later. Good Luck!
]]>Call the cops yourself. Make the "security" guy and whoever else on Menard's side wait for the cop to arrive. I'm sure they'd be coming up with any excuse they could to leave before the cops got there.
]]>Of course one would have to retain council to make sure that the bogus charges can't come back to haunt, but I bet they would fold very quickly and settle for attorneys fees and even some damages.
]]>Let the cops come. The accused was more than willing to pay for an 'oversight'.
The store should've let them pay and left it at that.
But I would've called the cops on the obvious extortion the store was pulling.
]]>I would have gone with the cops and told the cops what they offered me. I use my cell phone to record coversations just like this. All cell phones now days have a voice recorder....except maybe the god-phone.....
]]>Some security guy gets in your face and accuses you of something? Whip out your cell phone and say you'd like to record this incident on video to prevent any miscommunications.
Rent-a-cop sticks you in a room? Start calling corporate offices and news stations. Get names, badge numbers, employee ID numbers, everything you can think of.
]]>You look him square in the eye and say "Don't bother Sir", and you pull out your cellular phone and call the police immediately. You tell them exactly what happened and that the security personal at this store has just tried to extort you out of $150 (Extortion is a felony).
You watch his eyes go as wide as saucers, and all of the colour drain out of his face, perhaps he'll be even more stupid and make a grab for your phone, at which point he'll be taking on a second misdemeanor for trying to prevent you from contacting the police in an emergency.
This is a pretty dicey game these morons are playing, I'll wager the person who dropped those bits into the box is the same person who stole your cart... and my wager is that they're either working with the store in loss prevention, or they're working with this asshat in his scheme.
]]>Whoops, meant to respond to an earlier post, weird. Anyway, point still valid.
]]>@AirIntake: They answered that: "We run a professional business and I would never want to risk my reputation by being hauled out of Menards in front of everyone by the police."
]]>Agreed, the proper response here is to call (or at least threaten to call) 911 and report false imprisonment.
]]>If that happened to me, they'd be calling the fire department, on me.
]]>