@el elarmist:

Bingo. I'm never surprised when I see this type of news from the US. Which is sad.

@coren: That's nuts.

For a transplant it was only $300k.

For a separate visit where I was sedated with Dilautid for 3 days straight it was only ~$60k.

Methinks those hospitals are just ridiculous

@H3ion:

The question of billing has less to do with the bill and more to do with the actual cost of care.

Hospitals routinely charge $2/ea for OTC aspirin tablets, $5+ for a pair of OTC latex gloves, and we're supposed to think that the bill we get is 'fair'?

@Quatre707:

Hear, hear.

@madanthony:

No, I think people understand that this wasn't a "willful" screwup.

What's at issue is that they sent a letter to a deceased person. Someone who was declared dead at their hospital. The file that was used to create this bill would have been flagged to indicate that the person was deceased.

It was an accident, but it was an accident with far-reaching consequences. It inflicted immense psychological harm on the family of the deceased.

Additionally, the "indigent" letter is bordering on illegal, as a hospital cannot legally refuse emergency care to anyone at any time for any reason.

@pecan 3.14159265:

www.childsplaycharity.org

Corporate/Legacy sponsors often pay for medical equipment and staff. While money is nice, consider donating crayons, books, games, toys, and other things that the big endowments don't cover. It sounds frivolous on the surface, but not when you hear about kids who have their entire childhood stolen from them by sterile white rooms.

There are *LOTS* of non-profit children's hospitals out there, and all of them do great work. They're frequently the only resource available to the parents of terminally ill children, as the for-profit hospitals that have the resources most often simply refuse to treat long-term patients who aren't filthy rich.

@Hua Kul:

I will grant that hospital administration and insurance companies are both made up of some of the sleaziest people you could imagine, but hospitals will typically reduce your bill based on your income. I had my bill cut in half when I went in for an emergency room visit (chest pains).

Of course, had they simply prescribed the antibiotics when I had told them to, it would have cleared up the searing pain in my chest 5 hours earlier, cost me $1500 less than they charged, not wasted a bed, and prevented whatever damage may have been done to my heart by the pericardytis during the six hours I waited in a hallway.

Adding insult to injury, the hospital bill cost more than the additional yearly income tax liability I would have suffered had I been living in Canada, and up there I would have been seen *immediately* instead of waiting hours to see a doctor. Did I mention the searing chest pains?

@pecan 3.14159265:

Excepting that in most other countries, the letter would never have been sent. They would have been covered by the NHS and would have had no contact with the billing department of the hospital.

So, yes, he was correct: As a citizen of any civilised country, you're never directly billed for emergency health care.

The strange part is I have been in the resuscitation room where they would probably have taken him when they have had people in pretty serious condition come in and most of the time it looks like a bunch of people standing around trying to keep pressure on this or that while two people actually do something. How those few moments ever amount to that cost are always beyond me.

The problem is that inappropriate responses have become the norm these days and are really more of a view of what those who send them are really like.

Last year my wife spent 14 days in a hospital and the total bill was over $58,000. The insurance company paid them $8,800 and the hospital accepted it as payment in full. If we had not had insurance I would not have been able to negotiate the bill down to $8,800. Something doesn't seem right there.

All of that can be laid on the roommate who murdered the victim. When you illegally assault, harm, murder, etc. someone you are liable and responsible for all the resultant medical costs.

There was the obvious screw up: he had insurance and his parents were still billed (which to my knowledge they have no obligation to pay unless they are his estate, but IANAL).

There was the obvious "be a fucking person" screw up in sending a dead kid's parents the notice about him being persona non grata at the facility.

But here's the thing: he didn't live with his parents. We know this because he had a roommate (who inflicted the beating that ended his life). Further, he wasn't a minor - he was 23 at the time of his death. So why was a bill sent to his parent's home? And while I agree it's possible that was still listed as his address rather than his address at the school, why was it also *addressed* to his parents? Every article I've read said it was received by or addressed to them - nothing about opening a letter that was addressed to their son or anything about it being for their son.

It takes more than a simple clerical fuck up to send a bill to someone that was an insurer's responsibility, and wouldn't be their responsibility even without insurance, nevermind the deadbeat notice. The only way that gets to the parents is if they know the kid is dead, and send it anyway.

And that's fucked up. Be a fucking person.

Something is seriously wrong - there were two major screw ups here, one not billing the insurance company and the second of sending that letter to the family of the deceased.

Hm...why would they be sending that to his family since he wasn't living there?

[www.nwfdailynews.com]

They're going to get about 5 percent of what they billed. 5 percent here would be about 1500 bucks, or 300 bucks a minute. Call half of that over head, split it about 10 to 12 ways (they've got at least that many people waiting) and it gets much closer to the reality of what the doctor's get paid.

This story has been a hot topic with the on-line autism community as well-- the victim was mildly autistic. It's terrible to find that it just keeps going and going thanks to UCDavis's appalling treatment of this family. And I hope our fine congressmen and women will take note today.

CIvilized countries have universal health care.

The hospital and ambulance service never even sent her a bill. A few months before making her final payment to that S.O.B., karmic justice worked it's magic. At age 48, he died (while cheating on his wife...literally, in the act) from a subdural hematoma! My aunt paid the last few payments to his estate. Later that year, his widow returned every penny my aunt had ever paid AND she paid off the $20k balance on her mortgage to apologize!!!

Karma is a b!tch!

You also can't be so irresponsible as to send a letter to someone telling them their dead child is a deadbeat.

Seriously? The hospital system knows if someone is discharged as "expired." It should be reprogrammed to NOT tell you that your dearly departed is broke. When honestly? They probably never got insurance information to begin with.

Now I'll go read the story in order to have an informed opinion.

@padams89: That actually is a very interesting, informative post. I give you a non-official off-brand gold star :)

@kethryvis: That about sums it up .

Found this a while back [www.nwfdailynews.com] - this bill puts that 29K to shame but the family really got the short ended on this UC Davis bill .

I had a cavity filled and paid a good chunk of money for it (I was uninsured at the time). A month later, the filling fell out and I called the dentist--all the while expecting to end up paying another couple hundred dollars. I was pleasantly surprised when they did the filling (and a bit extra work to keep it from falling out) for free. Why? The doc felt that it was total crap to pay that much for his work (which he prided himself on), then to have nothing to show for it.

I know there is a world of difference between a dentist and an ER trauma team, but I think it is total crap to stick someone with a bill that costs more than their net worth--especially when they die.

@ARP: And you are correct in your statement. My accounting professor was an accountant for a group of hospitals here and explained exaclty that as an example. They know that x% of paitieints will not pay...ever. Everyone elses fees get bumped up to cover that loss.

@ARP: No, they're getting full payment probably from the insurers, the ones that they get nothing at all from are what drives it up, the insurance companies (responsibly) refuse to directly subsidize treatment for the uninsured on the backs of their customers and shareholders.

The hospitals have to try. Every once in a while, someone, maybe the state, ends up paying the inflated bill and it evens out.

While I sympathize with the OP, it's not true that the "didn't do anything" at the hospital simply because a diagnosis couldn't be reached. They likely put him on telemetry monitoring during his stay, and ran multiple tests to evaluate a cause of his condition. Do you think the cardiologists, nurses, techs, machinery, room, etc all come at no cost?

Bingo.

Just one more reason for a single payer system, then we don't have to worry who pays for it.

Things in a trauma bay happen in this order:
Airway: the airway is secured and the patient is ventilated if unable to do so on his/her own. This may include intubation, surgical cricothyrotomy, chest tubes, chest decompression and many other highly skilled and precise procedures that are fatal if done improperly.
Breathing: Respiratory therapists are present to get the patient on a ventilator, bi-pap, c-pap or other appropriate breathing machine if needed.
Circulation: There are cariothoracic surgeons as well as the full crash team ready to resuscitate the patient using things as simple as a defibrillator or as complex as in room surgical interventions that include repairing the chambers of the heart.

YES, all of this can easily happen in the first five minutes. In fact, it is extremely rare for the ABC's to take more than 1 minute total especially because there are typically 10-15 people in the trauma bay, each with a specific and highly skilled purpose.

While all of this is going on the aforementioned x-rays are being taken (everyone is wearing lead and the table has films in it so all they have to do is move the overhead system and clear the x-ray field for a few seconds.

These things are just the tip of the iceberg of what is done in five minutes in a trauma bay. Although the bill is expensive, keep in mind that all these people are ready to do this for YOU 24/7/365 and although there is not a patient every shift the staff still needs to get paid.

Health care like housing should be a human right and not depend on the size of one's pocketbook.

@madanthony: I call bullshit. In Canada you could get a greater standard of care for much less money and bullshit.

@bunnymare: Perfect. Crumple up that $5 bill and shove it up their ass.

@ARP: nice. Rush Lintball +1.

/UCD graduate student and staff member, but not a "representative" of the University.

NOWHERE!

for five minutes of their time they really think they deserve $30,000 dollars? they were there at work! they are paid to be available. heck even most mechanics will look at a car and tell you if them inspecting it would be worth the charge.

And the billing is totally messed up anyway. The hospital may send a bill to the insurance carrier for $29,000 but their actual reimbursement may be less than $10,000 and they're not allowed to balance bill. We had that exact situation in a string of MRI clinics that I represented. Our charge was $950. Medicare would allow less than $300 and the private insurers would key their reimbursement to Medicare plus some percentage. People went berserk when they saw a $950 bill but the fact was that only people with no insurance paid that amount, and we would usually discount the bill in that circumstance. We weren't raking in money because our actual receipt per scan was around $350.

We can rightfully complain about medical costs when we don't demand the most expensive and most comprehensive medical care. Until then, the costs go with the territory.

@gover57:

if the pt is not a minor, then nope, parents aren't liable

@Bob Lu:
well, I went=off half-informed in my comment, too--strictly speaking, doa is when you're pronounced dead "on arrival." In this case, they worked on the kid for about five minutes before pronouncing him dead in the er.

@SagarikaLumos: Yes, which is why providers charge so, much. They don't get "full" payment from insurers, so they need to charge more to the people that can least afford it.

When my nephew passed away the insurance company refused to pay the bill for his admission to the hospital because he lived less than 24 hours from the time he was admitted. After a year, my sister threatened to take it the local news station and then they settled up.

I don't believe that these are automation mistakes. I believe that hospitals and insurance companies have these "errors" built in their systems to try to take advantage of people when they are most vulnerable.

@supercereal: True, but his parents are not the estate. Now, if they had evidence that they were the representatives of the estate, fine. But its pretty obvious, they weren't that sophisticated about this.

So this was more than just a clerical error (asuming he was an adult). They were attempting the sleazy technique of billing people who don't have a legal responsibility for another person's debt.

@nova3930: Sorry, I meant cost in terms of list price, not cost of providing services. So, providers need to make up for that low margin, by charging very high margin on others.

Anyway, if he died at the ER visit in question, UCD medical center is very, very wrong.

I think that's kinda the point. You would think a modern hospital with a level 1 trauma center such as UC Davis would have a little check box or something in the patient's file that says "deceased", and perhaps another one that says "insured".

I agree with what W10002 said - the hospital needs to reach out beyond just a press release.

To me, the most ridiculous part of this is calling the dead patient indigent. Um, yeah, he didn't pay his bill cuz he's dead. Maybe if someone checked that little "deceased" box in his file, they'd know that.

I think there are different degrees of responsibility. Yes, they should have processes in place so dead people don't get dunning bills. But some people seem to be acting like the hospital explicitly made a point of sending a bill to a dead person, rather than accidentally sending a form letter.

@floraposte: Double win!

Havent read the whole thing + articles yet...but I work at a trauma center and we easily go thru $20k, 30k, even $55k worth of blood products in an hour trying to save a life.

I would need to see the itemization of course and chart, but Ive seen plenty of $30,000 30 minutes stays worth of bills for a pt who expires.

As far as the "insulting" letters - the computer dropped them as any other patient accounting system would. "The computer" doesnt care if it is a $100 bill or $100,000 bill. I also would like to know if the hospital received insurance info timely when pt was there. If the pt can't talk, expires, then family arrives, the liklihood insurance was known and provided timely by family during the most distressing time of their life isn't high. The means it was set up as self pay and not set up to the insurance.

I got tired of very injured people coming in, often without ID, who lie, are uncooperative, or are too injured to speak blame the "evil hospital". We didn't set up these systems to annoy and hurt family; culturally hospitals are a business that have to "Follow the rules" if they want to get reimbursed - while saving lives most of the time - so the doors can be kept open for the next round of v. injured people.

The fact that only 40% of our patients have insurance cards with them doesnt help + the others who when asked what their insurance is say, "I don't know."

@floraposte:

Re: debt collectors; I entirely agree there--I feel pretty confident that they would make such a claim. I think the reason "dependents" comes up and causes confusion for people is that many families have insurance policies where kids are covered by virtue of their dependency. However, I'm confident that (insurance issues aside) a person's status as a dependent does not make his debts somehow tranferrable thereby.

@Bob Lu:

What on earth do you think he was pronounced doa at the er for? Of course it was the fatal beating.

@The Porkchop Express:

First, there is exactly zero evidence that the insurance info was missing. (By the way-if they had such a handy excuse, don't you think they would've used it? I do.)
Second, it simply isn't the parents' problem to help the hospital find the executor for the hospital. This really is very simple--the hospital sent a letter they had no right to send and caused gratuitous suffering. There's a reason they apologized--they were dead wrong.

@ARP:

Sorry but my wife is a Dr. and #2 is BS. No Dr. with a desire to eat will accept less than what care costs from a private insurer. At that rate, they're better off closing the practice and sitting at home.

The assertion that insurance pays less than what care costs is absolute nonsense if you think about it. If the majority of your business is covered by insurance, and there are really only one or two insurance companies per state, then logically if insurance is paying less than cost, you're going to go out of business. Its the old business fallacy of "we lose money on every sale but we'll make it up in volume."

Incidentally the only two "insurers" that pay less than what care costs are Medicaid and Medicare and the only reason they get away with that is the reimbursements are set by law.

Thats also a big reason its becoming increasingly difficult for those on Medicaid and Medicare to actually find a Dr to treat them and end up going to state/federally funded residency programs that are required to treat them as a consequence of accepting that funding. They can't get rates to cover care, they just stop accepting them where they can.

You're explanation also is quite contradictory when coupled with the fact that insurance premiums are going up. If insurance is paying less than cost, then non-payers should have no effect on cost. The answer lies in the fact that its not a contributor, its people use more and more expensive healthcare combined with the fact that we as Americans see health insurance as prepayment for health care services, which it should not be.

For people making cash payments the fee schedules are typically set up such that one of three things happens.

1. You pay up front. If you do you can generally haggle with the Dr. and get a fee close to what the insurance pays. The insurance company gets those rates because they have a guaranteed contractual payment arrangement in place.
2. You don't pay at all and get sent to collections or whatever.
3. You pay in installments and pay a lot more than 1 in order to cover 2. No different than any other "financing" arrangement, especially one thats completely incapable of being secured.

If this is the case I'd say the hospital made some bad PR decision but is not actually in fault. Someone used the resources improperly, they should pay for it, even be panelized. It is sad that they were later murdered, but it doesn't change the fact that they used the the resources improperly.

In the other hand if the bill is for treating the lethal beating, what Mr Seamons said will be totally utterly BS, and the hospial should not just apology. They need be investigated, fined and someone have to lose their job.

@bunnymare: @johnfrombrooklyn: I truly do feel for you both and wish that not only did you not experience the loss, but that it was handled better by the companies involved.

On the one hand, they should be more sensitive when an unexpected, tragic death has occurred. On the other hand, automation is a part of life and we have to accept it, as frustrating as it is.

It's Friday and I'm still not sure.

But hey, I did get to see Poe's boobs.

@treimel: They admit it now. Sometimes the insurance info isn't there.

Of course you're right about the estate being responsible (if no insurance) but how are they to find the estate (again if no insurance or insurance info).

Other places need to bill in order to pay staff/equip so that when you do need them - they are there. If they didn't get paid from somewhere, where would we be?

I'm very sorry for your loss, and I do think some of the billing practices make things difficult.

That's one practice I really hate from hospitals. You go in, and you get a bill from the hospital, the doctor, the lab, the pharmacy, something else - all looking for their little co-pays and such. Sorry, but when I go to the hospital, I shouldn't have to pay for it in such an a-la-carte fashion. The Hospital is the "prime contractor" and all bills should be coordinated through the hospital, not from each Tom, Dick and Harry individually.

@floraposte: Well if they did actually get this bill becuse he didn't have insurance, isn't it their own fault? I mean he should have taken better care of himself and the parents should have put aside $29k in case something like this happens. They need to exercise some personal responsibility.

/snark

Are the parent's actually responsible for this bill? Can they tell the hospital to F*** off? glad i'm taxed like crazy up here in Canada and will never have to worry about any of this kind of crap. I'd be telling them to go after my kids estate to get thier money, and being a student, it's likely he has no assets in his estate, and they wont get anything.. You guys need to vote in that damn medical law that's all over the news down there. who cares what the stupid anit-new law hype is, its better than what your current situation is...

@nova3930: Most medical provider also grossly overcharge for two main reasons:

1) To offset those who can't ever pay
2) To offset payments from insurers who often only agree to pay a fraction of the costs.

So, people without insurance are getting the short end of the stick because, they're being forced to pay the full amount.

This also means that providers keep raising prices to offset 1 and 2. It's a never-ending cycle.

So, when you complain that you don't want to pay other's costs, too late, you already are.

I am actually more upset with the tone of the letter than the fact they sent it to the parents of a deceased child (which, don't get me wrong, is horrible).

I understand in today's world, hospitals need money from individuals and insurance companies to stay open, but I think the tone of a collection letter for a hospital bill should be VERY different than the tone of a letter for, say, a department store.

Well I've been to UCD Med, and must admit they are pricey even for a hospital. What makes it so is that there is a lot of researching going on with patients there. They need money to try and compete with mega-hospitals like Sloan or Anderson. Also, this tuff happens all of the time. Billing departments are a joke and always have been. I know of some cancer patients that have to call into the billing department at Yale every time they get a bill because of errors. Most people can't figure these bils out. Luckily I can. You'd be surprised how much you pay for that you never used. You'd also be surprised how often a hospital will at first pretend that you don't have an insurance card, they make more money that way.

While UCDMC is by no means a perfect hospital, far and away more than other local facilities they will accept the uninsured ER patients who I want to transfer because I don't have the specialty services available at my hospital.

Does the hospital bill patients and tell them to go to the county health clinic if they are uninsured? Yes. Do the doctors and nurses there do what is right for patients regardless of ability to pay? Absolutely. And those two things are not mutually exclusive.

I have never once had a 'wallet biopsy' performed by UCD before they accepted a patient in transfer. The nurses and doctors at UCD do the right thing even if the bean counters send bills like this.

In a broken health care system, UCDMC is one of the pieces that is holding our frail safety net together. At least in the Sacramento area.

@lehrdude: Only with a reciept.

@Trai_Dep: *groan*

I wouldn't be surprised if the odd debt collector made a case for that as a reason even if it weren't legally viable, too.

I work at a hospital that has an average of 60 beds filled each day. It costs us about $300 million per year to operate.

@ninram:

Then change your understanding--being claimed as a dependent simply means that a taxpayer is able to claim that he or she paid for the majority of the support of a particular individual (generally a minor) in a preceding tax year, it has *zero* to do with debt accrual, ciontract formation, and the like.

@Dethzilla: Yeah but its like any other business that requires large capital expenditures. You have to keep enough $$$ on hand to pay for upgrades and replacements as they become available.

What makes it worse is that you slap "3 letter gov't agency approved" (FAA,FDA, etc) on anyting, and the cost goes up 5-10X due to certification compliance costs.

We wanted everything to be heavily tested and safe to minimize risk because of people selling snake oil 100 years ago and now we're shocked that those requirements have driven up cost....

This happens all the time, I just spent (for the sixth time) 1/2 hour on the phone with my insurance company and a doctor's office that keeps sending me bills and collection notices for $250 bill despite the fact that both the insurance company and the doctor's office have told me I'm not responsible for the bill (I paid my co-pay, the doctor's office failed to timely submit it to the insurance company therefore the insurance company won't pay it, etc.)

Despite the fact that I'm not responsible for this fee the doctor's office billing office said that the bills are generated automatically and that they have no way to turn them off. If an account shows a balance they bill it to the patient and send them to collections regardless of whether the patient actually owes the amount showing owed on the statement.

The cost wasn't for what they did but for the simple fact that there were there to take him.

It's a sad day when you realize that dying on the scene will save your parents a big bill.

@floraposte:

I'd like to see a cite for that--I'm very, very dubious. I can only speak for Pennsylavnia--but here, no way, no how.

@imsnowbear:

the bill should have gone directly to the insurer--the hospital concedes that.

Why? Unless the patient died from their negligence, which he didn't, it's not their fault that he died. They still performed the services. And if their is anyone who I would want paid a shitload of money it's a trauma team that's literally saving lives.

@The Porkchop Express:

No, it's not fine--you're confusing "not unlawful" with okay to do. Moreover, it is entirely unclear that the family has any responsibility in this matter whatsoever--the proper person is the executor/administator of the estate, and that may or may not be a member of his immediate family. Additionally, the hospital itself admits that it should have sent the bill directly to the insurer-rtfa.

@Kuchen: I imagine 5 Trauma patients in that condition who can actually afford to pay that bill will cover the cost of the equipment.

This is the type of article the Pro Health Care Plan can latch on to and get the bill pushed through.

Of course the article forgot to mention that most Colleges include Insurance in tuition of the school... unless he opted out... which was dumb.

@treimel: Sending the bill to the family is fine, they can send it to insurance and/or contact hospital and re-give insurance info. It sucks but they can do that.

The letter advising that the son was no longer welcome on the other hand....horrible. not only should that letter not be sent, but they should have the records to know that he would no longer need to go there at all.

It's not just the uninsured thing--as you note, a lot of people don't make it to the bill-paying stage from such places, so the survivors have to pay for the unlucky as well.

@bunnymare: Sorry for your loss. :(

@AdvocatesDevil: It did not specify whether the bill and the letter was sent together. I think it was a separate automated process in which the son's name was mistakenly flagged for the letter.

I hated that movie so much, but Anthony Steward Head was great.

@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: Where is S2 Games at here?

Stunning...I believe this to be a case of relying on technology too much and not enough in-person investigation. Yeah, I know, people cost and that would cut into the profits.

If he wasn't admitted through the ER, then obviously my theory's blown right there.

@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already:
I would not pay that. I would change my social security number so they can't ding my credit. $20,000 when they did not do anything is theft.

@Julia789: St. Jude's knows how to get into my wallet even further. I guess it's time to browse the catalog.

In either case, the parents aren't responsible for debts incurred by their adult son. It just doesn't work that way.

@ColoradoShark: St. Jude's has a holiday catalog out, where you can shop for gifts and benefit the hospital at the same time. 100% of profits after expenses benefit them.

[shop.stjude.org]

Because obviously, he has $19,000 just laying around somewhere.

@h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes:

Ogre? From Revenge of the Nerds? He wasn't in that.

@jayde_drag0n: As he was a student, it could also be that he was still a dependent on the parents 1040. The parents of a depentant child, minor or adult, are responsible (as I understand it).

It's hard to comment on the bill without an itemization. Level 1 trauma teams don't come cheap though - neurosurgeons, trauma surgeons, nurses, anesthesiologists - all have to be kept in house on call.

regardless, the letter telling him not to come back is a little cold, even without considering that he died. It's also problmatic that they would refer someone with a complicated medical situation to follow up with a different hospital. Thus fragmenting care - which leads to higher overall costs as tests are delayed or repeated with new providers.

Regardless of the situation, the hospital needs to reach out to the family [not through a PR press release] and personally apologize for the error. Otherwise, they have no excuse for the mistake.

@lannister80: I didn't say it was okay that the mistake was made, but I think the man clearly feels as if the hospital did it on purpose, and that's not the case.

These days a "good" trauma is going to rackup charges at the rate of ten's of thousands of bucks per minute, especially in the first 5-10 minutes of care.

And on average, better than 90% of those "good" traumas are not going to have a positive outcome (if you know what I mean)

30 years ago I was one of those "good" traumas. My first 6 hours of care was $150,000. Remember, that was 30 years ago... when medical care was cheap. Fortunately I had fairly decent insurance and only had to pay the $2500 deductable.

Why the big expense? Because the majority of the "good" traumas will have zippo insurance and those that do must pay for those that don't.

I guess the hospital didn't have a money-back guarantee?

@sleze69:

Well, inasmuch as the deceased was insured,and so this bill should never have recbeen sent directly the bill was in no way, shape or form "vaalid." Moreover, the parents =/= the estate necessarily. rtfa.

@fantomesq:

But it didn't go to the insurer, hence the issue--scare quotes not needed. Moreover, they didn't directly apologize to the family-a pr flak gave a general statement. I'm glad this is being publicized.

@MaxSmart32: The second link says it was a clerical error based on automation, which leads me to think that the billing office automatically churns out certain types of letters depending on what files are flagged for certain things, and this poor man's file was mistakenly plucked and the letter was generated even though it shouldn't have been.

What a nice reminder of the many issues the U.S. has with health care. Five minutes should never cost that much, especially if the patient doesn't survive. At the very least they should a money back guarantee on that one!

That is the part that I don't understand...obviously it was NOT just meant for the insurance company, why on earth would UC Davis tell the insurance company that the insured was no longer welcome at their facility, and that he should go to a clinic? Something's not right about that.

@humphrmi: That's the very core of the problem. It's so impersonal. No one cares about the individual anymore.

What sucks more is that the whole time he was scared to death because he used to have SVT (super ventricular tachycardia) - basically your heart goes so fast it can no longer pump your blood properly - when he was a child. They operated and fixed it. Apparently this was a side-effect from the operation.

If it continuously recurs he'll have to get a pacemaker later in life.

He's happy now. He's working for S2 Games and making the website for heroes of newerth. Its his dream job. Now he is just waiting for me to get up there.

@bunnymare: I'm so sorry for your loss. :(

The only place that's never sent me a bill is St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. They've only sent me nice notes, and encouragement.

@GitEmSteveDave_RockinLabCoat: There's more to the story than these two articles have because it has to do with the nature of his care. If he had to be medevac-ed to the hospital, that costs a ton of money. If he needed a lot of blood, that's a lot of money. It's not like he came in and five minutes later, all he had were some bandages and an IV before they determined his injuries were too severe. Trauma units are prepared for the very worst injuries and that requires a lot of people, a lot of equipment.

clearly, I am in the wrong line of work....

While the letter was definitely inappropriate, the bill was still valid. Do people think that all hospital bills are forgiven if the patient dies?

"I can't believe that in any country besides the U.S., any civilized country, that the parents of a murdered boy would receive this bill for $29,000 and such an insulting letter," Gerald Hawkins, the victim's father, told ABC 10 in Sacramento, CA.

I get that he's very upset, and it's totally understandable how upset he is because he's grieving over such a horrific tragedy....but it was a clerical mistake. The second article linked called it an error in the automation process for billing. This happens to be extremely unfortunate, but there's no indication that the people in the billing department was aware that this poor person had died. Clearly, it was a misexchange of information. It's not like there were people in the billing department sorting through files of deceased people, saying "whose family can we make miserable today?"

Again, I totally understand how upset he is. But it's not like someone was out to get him or did it deliberately. It was a very, very unfortunate mistake in the billing department. Mortifying for the person who authorized for it to be sent, I'm sure.

Hospital costs are ridiculous. My boyfriend recently spent 2 days in a cardiac ward for a very very low pulserate which ended up being inconclusive (they sent him home with nothing gained except that he shouldn't have been conscious, dunno why you still are). He didn't have insurance, so they did him the AMAZING favor of taking $2000 off his bill. How nice.

The bill ended up being ~$19,000. So he basically just bought a car without actually getting a car.