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Are you able to call the local bank? Maybe you could set up a lunch-time appointment or something.
Are you able to call the local bank? Maybe you could set up a lunch-time appointment or something.
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As a former HR person, I'm not so sure of the legality of charging the employee to reissue their paycheck.
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@Smashville_Flippin the Bird Before Bud Adams: I will tell you that under any circumstances in New York, it's illegal to charge someone a fee for their paycheck.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-812791-100x100.png\")
@spazztastic: They're not charging a fee for the paycheck. They're charging a fee for the stop payment that their bank is charging them. I have no idea what NY's laws are, though.
@spazztastic: Let's just say, I've worked for 2 major, major corporations and some mom and pop places...and it was nothing that would have remotely been considered at any of them.
It seems utterly bizarre to me. Seems like it would somehow violate the FLSA.
@FatLynn: Like I said...not clear on it, but it seems like it would at least be kind of murky...especially when the stop payment in this case could be the fault of the company. She has a deposit slip, yet the check didn't clear?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-68654-100x100.png\")
@Smashville_Flippin the Bird Before Bud Adams: i think i'm going to have to agree with you here. it's not her responsibility to place a stop payment on the uncashed check - that's done to protect the integrity of the company's corporate account. her employer should just eat the cost already.
Since you can't go in, I suggest calling the manager of your local branch instead of the main #s you already tried - I've had better luck that way getting issues resolved.
I hate to be the jerk here, but there is no proof the check was actually deposited into the ATM.
And why do you label the payroll person as the jerk. A lot of companies have policies about reissuing checks that employees agree to upon being hired. It's basically the same as the bank's service charge. It's a penalty fee to keep it from happening again.
Most banks are open late on one or sometimes two days a week and many bank branches, including Chase, are open on Saturdays. It might not be the one right across the street, but I'm sure you can find one within a reasonable distance.
I'm not siding with Chase at all, but I think there are an enough holes in this story to make the poster chalk it up to experience and move on.
@laffmakr: She has a receipt from the ATM ... how is that not proof?
As for some banks being open late or on Saturdays -- not where I live. In my hometown of Atlanta, yes, but here in my current city banks are only open M-F, 8:00ish-5:00. There are no exceptions. Don't take your personal experience and extrapolate and assume that the situation is the same everywhere for everyone, then chide the OP.
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@laffmakr: In the end, it doesn't matter WHAT she put into the ATM, because the check was never paid. She's not trying to get Chase to give her the money from her paycheck. Her employer confirmed that the check was never cashed, stopped payment on the original check, and issued a new one. Presumably, she deposited the new check without incident.
If your argument is that she'd go through all of this to somehow try to scam Chase out of $15 that she likely didn't know she'd be charged in the first place... Well, that's silly too.
@laffmakr: If this were one of the new ATMs I see commercials for, there would be proof, the receipt would have an image of the check. But in general, true. The receipt really only says you deposited an envelope. There's really no proof of the check inside.
@laffmakr: Whoa now. You've got just about everything wrong here.
First off, she has the receipt, which in the very least says that the transaction took place. Sure, she could have put nothing in the ATM, but Chase isn't trying to claim that she did this, as far as we can tell.
Secondly, she never puts any blame on the payroll department. If anything, it seems as if she recognizes that the fee is valid, but her problem with it is that Chase ought to reimburse her for it, since Chase messed up. She never challenges being charged the fee.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-178471-100x100.png\")
@laffmakr: The story says many times that she kept the receipt she received after depositing the check. She had proof.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-507937-100x100.png\")
@PinkBox: No proof the check was actually in the envelope.
That's why I like the check scanners they are installing at most banks however Chase, who I now have thanks to WAMU going under, does not have them.
What will happen is they will find the envelope that fell out of the bin and they will try to deposit that check then nail her with a fee.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-65988-100x100.png\")
@The_Red_Monkey: My little podunk central Ohio bank has ATMs that scan the check--no envelope required.
they have started installing check scanners at ATMs in NYC - so maybe coming soon to you.@The_Red_Monkey:
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-93308-100x100.png\")
@The_Red_Monkey: but if they can't produce the empty envelope, it proves they lost the envelope she deposited. That's if you have to put your name and last 4 of your account on it the way you do at my bank.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-154541-100x100.png\")
@PinkBox:
Actually the bank should refer to what is printed by the ATM as a \"Transaction Record\", not a \"Receipt\". It only shows that a transaction occurred at the ATM, it does not verify receipt of any cash or checks.
I worked at a major EFT processor for many years and I programmed ATM software for a while, we never used the word \"receipt\" anywhere.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-21984-100x100.png\")
@laffmakr: She has a receipt from the atm. That is the only proof she should need. They could pull the video from her at the atm but it is probably too old now.
The envelop is probably sitting on the floor or otherwise is jammed inside the atm...
@econobiker: not too old - that stuff is all digitized now. i can request video from an atm that's 6 months or older without issue.
@laffmakr: Chase has even rolled out the automatic check-scanning ATMs, which allow you to print a copy of the check image deposited directly on the receipt.
If she has one of those at her fingertips, I'd say the \"proof\" is indisputable even by the most cynical standards.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-371772-100x100.png\")
That's one reason I would never deposit a check at an ATM.
This is not a problem with Chase, she should talk to her employer. Chase weren't the one who charged her, so why should they pay her back, her employer should reimburse her.
@Colonel Jack O'Neill: I agree. Chase may have lost the check but the fee is being assessed by her employer. If this is a one time thing, I think the employer should eat the $15. If this is a regular occurrence (which I didn't get from the story) then maybe I'd think otherwise. In any case, we're talking about $15 a month ago. Might it not make sense to just move on, or to suggest direct deposit to the employer?
@Colonel Jack O'Neill: Because Chase is the one who apparently lost her check. Why should her company be out money when they did nothing wrong? (Other than just to be nice to their employee.)
I've been depositing checks at ATMs since about 1998 and I've never had a problem. In fact, once I added the total of some checks incorrectly (in the bank's favor) and they corrected it for me.
Mistakes can happen, but assuming the OP is telling the truth, Chase should have figured out the problem initially and the OP should never have even had to get her check reissued.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-586739-100x100.png\")
OP should have made her own checks at home, like I do. Using my printing press. Even if you get arrested and sentenced to French jail, Tom Hanks will bust you out and get you sent to real jail, so it's all good.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1317414-100x100.png\")
@Cameraman: And then you get to get out of jail to help the government and then you write a book about it and then HEY! Movie deal! :)
I'd venture into the local branch of Chase and speak to management. Or perhaps the closest branch to the ATM where she deposited the check.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-580579-100x100.png\")
@Thenameismaia: Part of the issue is that she says she can't get into the branch during banking hours because of her work schedule. It'd require taking time off of work to do so which, depending on her pay rate, might end up costing her more than $15.
@h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes: I am sure there is another bank branch near by that is open on Saturday. Where there's a will, there's a way.
@The_Red_Monkey: Right, which is why I said \"She says she can't\", which could mean that there really is nowhere near her (really remote location?) or, for whatever reason, going to another one isn't feasible to her. I don't know what the circumstances are so I figured it'd be best to just point out that she feels that going to another branch isn't an option.
@h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes: Ah, my comprehension right now is not so good. Well dangit, Chase. Do something for this poor woman!
EECB?
At BoA ATMs you get a copy of the check that's deposited so you have proof that it actually went into the ATM. I never have a problem with their machines.
\"Katy is a poster child for the benefits of direct deposit, as well as deposit receipt-keeping.\"
Chase is unable to tell the OP what that transaction number from that ATM on that date was? I did it years ago, seems pretty simple.
1. If the ATM logs show no such transaction number, there is a major issue with the ATM and she should have been asked for a copy of her receipt.
2. If transaction XXX was a deposit for $XXX and they can't find the deposit envelope, the check, etc. Chase can clearly see THEY made an error.
Sounds simple to me.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-483565-100x100.png\")
While I suspect ATMs probably have some fringe exceptions or something, it seems to me that if this is the kind of ATM that images the deposited checks, the regulators of Chase might be interested to know that a deposit disappeared and the customer has been left on the hook.
If it's the kind where the receipt merely confirms what you told the ATM about what's in the envelope, I'd guess that that's too big of a loophole to get anybody else interested.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1382962-100x100.png\")
If her bank's ATM is like the ones here, it requires you to use an envelope, and the feature to deposit the check and get a scan of it isn't available.
However, if the bank opens the envelope and finds something wrong, they send a letter detailing why the deposit couldn't be made.
It doesn't sound like Chase is claiming an empty envelope, or other issue. I don't recall seeing that Chase denied there was an evelope at all. It might be that she forgot to write on the envelope or provide enough invormation. Or her handwriting sucked. Or her envelope is jammed into the frame of the ATM.
I do know that Chase isn't charging the fee, and that they are unlikely to pay the fee charged by another bank.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1504-100x100.png\")
@RedCatLinux: Yep, they should be able to find an envelope with some printing on it that matches her transaction.
Why are we even discussing this. Paper paychecks are more trouble than they are worth. I'll give the woman fifteen dollars if she signs up for direct deposit. Heck I'll give her twenty.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-117360-100x100.png\")
@feckingmorons: We're discussing this because:
1) Paper checks, a notably outdated form of payment that's being phased out in many countries, is still one of the more economical ways to pay a large sum of money to somebody in the United States.
2) Not every employer has the capabilities (or can easily shoulder the expense) of direct depositing paychecks to its employees.
3) Financial institutions like to play fast and loose with processing checks, catching hapless people in the lurch.
@azntg: I had an employer that started offering direct deposit last year finally but they charge employees $1 per check for it.
@feckingmorons: We're discussing it because it's a story that was posted to Consumerist. Her company doesn't offer direct deposit, so that's not helpful to the OP.
And guess what, direct deposit is more convenient than having to go to the bank to deposit a check, but mistakes can still happen with DD.
@chatterboxwriting: What is this, 1992?
How small must the company that she works for be to not offer direct deposit?
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@The_Red_Monkey: My boyfriend's workplace doesn't offer it. If it's small enough that they aren't using someone like ADP to prepare paychecks, they probably don't have direct deposit. Payroll processing companies are not cheap, if they prepare and print the check themselves where she works or pay an accountant to do it, there just may not be an easy way to do it.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-664105-100x100.png\")
@The_Red_Monkey: My boyfriend works for a rather large security company and doesn't have the option of direct deposit. Some companies just don't seem to have caught up with technology.
@Nicole: Maybe because they've found a revenue source by charging employees for reissued checks.
Seems to me it's almost always cheaper for a company to do direct deposit. Just the simple fact you don't have to create and issue checks would make it worth it.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-152502-100x100.png\")
Keep nagging at them until you get an answer. It took many months, letters and phone calls for me to get the last $7 from closing an account when I moved out of state. The problem was caused solely by the whim of one teller. Because she could neither read nor write correctly, she wanted me to get a notarized document ($$) in order to get my money. I went up the food chain and eventually got my money.
I was a Wamu customer since then and was very much pleased. Until Chase took over Wamu.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1425332-100x100.png\")
Threaten to close your account if you're planning to take business elsewhere. Since you want to anyway, this is a good threat to make.
I've worked a number of places over the years that didn't offer direct deposit; it's not that unusual. And all of my freelance clients pay by check. I'd love it if they offered direct deposit, but they don't.
Chase is offering $125 to open a new account. They are going to lose an existing one over $15? Very bright!
I think the problem the OP is running into was that she chose to find a faster solution to the problem, reissue the paycheck. If she allowed Chase more time to have hunted for the check she might have had better luck. On the other hand, I would probably pay the $15 instead of waiting.
The worst part... If the check suddenly works itself loose from the ATM and gets deposited, Chase will probably end up charging her a $35-45 returned item fee!
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-449511-100x100.png\")
Hopefully the OP can find the time to visit a Chase branch - any Chase branch. I've found Chase bank manager's to be helpful and they do have authority to reverse charges.
I once deposited three checks at a Wachovia ATM and was only credited for one of them. Fortunately the two missing checks only totaled about $20. Despite my having several Wachovia accounts with substantial balances, and being repeatedly told over the years that I was a valued customer, when the time came to prove I was a valued customer Wachovia repeatedly refused to credit me for the missing checks. I eventually got someone in my local branch to credit me for the checks by issuing a refund for \"check printing fees.\" Apparently he couldn't simply correct their error, but could refund a fee I had never paid. I appreciated the refund, but not the ridiculous amount of time it took to find someone who would trust a long-time customer on a very small dollar amount bank error.
Now I am a former Wachovia customer and use a bank (PNC) that has an ATM that shows a scan of the checks deposited on the receipt, so I have proof of the deposits.
This happened to me a few months ago. I deposited my paycheck as well as $300 cash. The Cash posted the next day, but the amount of the check was removed, and payments started bouncing! I called executive customer service right away and explained the problem. My employer gave me a new check at no charge, Chase waived the OD charges and that is that :)
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It's definitely illegal in CA for the company to pass that fee on to you. Check your state's labor laws - you may be able to resolve this without involving Chase any further. That being said, if you do decide to change banks before this is resolved, make sure you tell them exactly why you're closing the account. Retention reps tend to have the power to make things happen that regular CSRs doing have. You may be able to get your $15 in exchange for not canceling the account (which you can then call back and do once you've received your $15 credit).
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-343810-100x100.png\")
Chase is obviously the worst bank, I like her idea of going to a local Credit Union. At least she can expect better customer service.
I have CHASE accounts and have found the local branch to be VERY helpful ...
ALSO FYI ... CHASE charges for ACH transfers initiated from their web site, but not vice versa ... go figr
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1511911-100x100.png\")
Hi folks -
I'm the one that wrote in with the story, so let me clarify a couple of things that have come up.
1) My employer does not offer direct deposit. I have no idea why, as we're not a tiny company, but I'm not in a position to change that.
2) The $15 fee from my employer was for the stop payment on the first check, not the reissuing of the second check. Yeah, it would have been nice if my employer had offered to waive this fee, but no such luck.
3) The receipt from Chase shows the transaction number, the ATM ID, and time and amount of deposit. I gave all this information to the Chase claims people, as well as faxing them a copy of the receipt. This branch didn't have the ATMs that scan the check directly when the incident happened in September - they've been installed in the last two months. I asked the customer claims people if they could review the ATM security tape, and they said the security tape is destroyed after a week and is no longer available. Given my experience with their telephone customer service, I have no idea if this is true. However, I'm not sure what else I could do to convince them that the deposit happened. And no one from the bank has said they received the envelope but it was empty or anything like that, so I assume the whole envelope + check + deposit slip combo went missing somewhere.
I'm planning to take half of Friday off to go and speak to the bank in person, so hopefully that will take care of things.
Once had a situation where the ATM didn't give me all of the funds requested by my account was debited. Bank tried to RickRoll me unfortunately for them the omniscient Oracles of the Google Search Function showed me the path of enlightment.
Translation - start here, this might help. Electronic Funds Transfer Act: [www.fdic.gov]
That 15 dollars is your money, if you work hard for it you deserve it period. Every penny now a days is a lot of money.
Why did her work charge her for the stop payment? I oversee my company's payroll department and I would never charge a fee for replacing a check....even if it did cost the company a few dollars - it's called goodwill.
@ShruggingGalt: The company is most likely just passing on to Katy the fee their bank charges them for the stop payment of a check... Bet they use Chase, too.
I don't get why@ShruggingGalt: I'm with you I also do payroll and I can't even imagine why they would charge their employee for a stop payment & to reissue them a check. I'm sure the bank charges them a fee for stopping payment on a check but it just seems like a real asshat move to make the employee pay for it.
@ShruggingGalt: You didn't figure in some of us out here work for some real asshats. The payroll 'person' was completely evil and if you didn't keep a sharp eye on your time cards, 'it' would shave 15 minutes here or there just to be a bastard.
@ShruggingGalt: Sadly, I think you're in the minority. Instead of goodwill, most companies I have seen are all about maximum profit and a couple higher-ups trying to get themselves ahead.
I've seen software companies that won't upgrade 5 year old computers that their developers use, even if they are completely inadequate. Heck, I've seen outright broken equipment being used (monitor that is blotchy, has major color flaws and tiny resolution capabilities) because it won't be replaced. Employees often make equipment purchases in these companies just to get by (hard drives because they are completely out of storage space for work projects on tight deadlines, etc.). These companies never, ever give a raise to their loyal employees unless asked and then they usually push back. Some people who the company is utterly dependant on have to threaten to leave or else they will be totally financially ripped off of monetary promises made to them and then the only reason the company relents is they know that they would crash and burn in a month without them.
These same employers wonder can't seem to figure out why they have such high employee turnover and why employees are so unmotivated after being there for several years.
I have no suggestion for Katy, since I think banks are leading the charge on our new employment standards in America.