She deposited her paycheck into her Chase checking account, but the money never showed up. Eventually she had her employer re-issue her paycheck, but the company made her pay the $15 canceled check fee. Katy thinks Chase should reimburse her for the charge, but the bank isn't budging. She writes:
I'm getting the royal run-around from Chase, and am wondering if your readers have any tips.
Early in September, I deposited my paycheck in a Chase ATM as I normally do (we don't have direct deposit). I kept the receipt. By the middle of next week, the check still had not posted to my account. I called the Chase main customer service number regarding the missing money and was referred to their customer claim center. I filed a claim and gave them all the information I had (time of deposit, address of ATM, transaction number) off my receipt. After an additional three weeks, Chase Customer Claims asked to see the front and back of the canceled check. Our finance department at work told me the check had never cleared but said I could get a stop payment on the deposited check and a new check issued for $15.
I wrote to Chase Customer Claims saying that I would cancel the previous check and have work issue me a new check. I also said that because it was the bank's fault the original check was lost, I wanted them to reimburse me the $15 fee for the stop payment. I called the Customer Claim Center to inquire whether I would get the $15 reimbursed. The woman I spoke to said there was a note in my account to reimburse the $15 and this would get refunded by the end of the
week. A week and a half go by, and no $15.This afternoon, I called the Chase Customer Claims center and spoke to four different people: one in Customer Claims, who told me she had no authority to reimburse money (despite seeing the note in my claims account saying the $15 should be reimbursed) and transferred me to online banking. Online banking told me they couldn't see the note in my claims account to reimburse the money and had no authority to issue anything related to a claim, and transferred me back to Customer Claims. Customer Claims (different person this time) again told me they couldn't reimburse me the money despite the note in my account and transferred me to Check Fraud. Check Fraud was confused as there
is obviously no reason why this case should end up in Check Fraud, but mentioned something about going back to my branch and taking it up with them before the representative inadvertently disconnected me while she was trying to look up something related to my branch.The problem is that because of my work schedule there is really no way to get to my branch during the day, and the branch is closed Saturdays. I do all of my banking through the ATM or over the internet and can't remember the last time I had an actual interaction with a teller. I could take a day off of work to go to the branch, but if my experience there is anything like my experience over the phone, I'll just get the runaround and it will be a wasted trip. I know in the
grand scheme of things $15 is not a lot of money, but I feel strongly that I shouldn't have to pay money because my bank made a mistake.I'm planning on switching to my local credit union (where mistakes might still happen but hopefully the customer service runaround won't be so frustrating) as soon as this is settled, but I want to get that $15 back first. Every other day on this site, we get a stories about banks charging ridiculous overdraft fees and late fees and other fees for consumer mistakes, but now consumers have to pay fees for the bank's mistakes too? Ridiculous, no matter how little the amount.
Anyone have any ideas?
One idea that comes to mind is to share the story with Chase higher-ups, Executive Email Carpet Bomb style.
Any other advice for Katy, assuming direct deposit isn't an option?
(Photo: David Nemesis)
]]>Once had a situation where the ATM didn't give me all of the funds requested by my account was debited. Bank tried to RickRoll me unfortunately for them the omniscient Oracles of the Google Search Function showed me the path of enlightment.
Translation - start here, this might help. Electronic Funds Transfer Act: [www.fdic.gov]
]]>I'm the one that wrote in with the story, so let me clarify a couple of things that have come up.
1) My employer does not offer direct deposit. I have no idea why, as we're not a tiny company, but I'm not in a position to change that.
2) The $15 fee from my employer was for the stop payment on the first check, not the reissuing of the second check. Yeah, it would have been nice if my employer had offered to waive this fee, but no such luck.
3) The receipt from Chase shows the transaction number, the ATM ID, and time and amount of deposit. I gave all this information to the Chase claims people, as well as faxing them a copy of the receipt. This branch didn't have the ATMs that scan the check directly when the incident happened in September - they've been installed in the last two months. I asked the customer claims people if they could review the ATM security tape, and they said the security tape is destroyed after a week and is no longer available. Given my experience with their telephone customer service, I have no idea if this is true. However, I'm not sure what else I could do to convince them that the deposit happened. And no one from the bank has said they received the envelope but it was empty or anything like that, so I assume the whole envelope + check + deposit slip combo went missing somewhere.
I'm planning to take half of Friday off to go and speak to the bank in person, so hopefully that will take care of things.
]]>How did you miss the part that says her employer doesn't offer direct deposit?
]]>ALSO FYI ... CHASE charges for ACH transfers initiated from their web site, but not vice versa ... go figr
]]>As for some banks being open late or on Saturdays -- not where I live. In my hometown of Atlanta, yes, but here in my current city banks are only open M-F, 8:00ish-5:00. There are no exceptions. Don't take your personal experience and extrapolate and assume that the situation is the same everywhere for everyone, then chide the OP.
]]>@The_Red_Monkey: My boyfriend's workplace doesn't offer it. If it's small enough that they aren't using someone like ADP to prepare paychecks, they probably don't have direct deposit. Payroll processing companies are not cheap, if they prepare and print the check themselves where she works or pay an accountant to do it, there just may not be an easy way to do it.
]]>@Dondegroovily: No, not as long as you are consistent and administer it fairly. The book I have on payroll administration gives the example that rounding a start time up from 8:08 am to 8:15 am is okay as long as you round an out time from 5:08 pm to 5:15 pm. It's one of those things you can't say it's always wrong to do, but if you are doing it just to not pay someone, it's probably wrong.
]]>@Gnort: Eh, I do payroll and have had a couple instances of an employee washing their check with their clothes or their check go missing and I never charged them for stopping a payment on the original check. I figure it's cheaper for us to stop the check and pay the fee than deal with unhappy employees or not stopping the check and having it clear.
]]>This happened to me a few months ago. I deposited my paycheck as well as $300 cash. The Cash posted the next day, but the amount of the check was removed, and payments started bouncing! I called executive customer service right away and explained the problem. My employer gave me a new check at no charge, Chase waived the OD charges and that is that :)
]]>Now I am a former Wachovia customer and use a bank (PNC) that has an ATM that shows a scan of the checks deposited on the receipt, so I have proof of the deposits.
]]>@Nicole: Maybe because they've found a revenue source by charging employees for reissued checks.
Seems to me it's almost always cheaper for a company to do direct deposit. Just the simple fact you don't have to create and issue checks would make it worth it.
]]>If your argument is that she'd go through all of this to somehow try to scam Chase out of $15 that she likely didn't know she'd be charged in the first place... Well, that's silly too.
]]>@Dondegroovily: A totally unverified source once mentioned something about the IRS doing this... I let it go. I keep wondering what would happen of the Dept. of Labor found out about the overtime, though.
]]>I think the problem the OP is running into was that she chose to find a faster solution to the problem, reissue the paycheck. If she allowed Chase more time to have hunted for the check she might have had better luck. On the other hand, I would probably pay the $15 instead of waiting.
The worst part... If the check suddenly works itself loose from the ATM and gets deposited, Chase will probably end up charging her a $35-45 returned item fee!
]]>Threaten to close your account if you're planning to take business elsewhere. Since you want to anyway, this is a good threat to make.
]]>they have started installing check scanners at ATMs in NYC - so maybe coming soon to you.@The_Red_Monkey:
]]>How small must the company that she works for be to not offer direct deposit?
]]>That's why I like the check scanners they are installing at most banks however Chase, who I now have thanks to WAMU going under, does not have them.
What will happen is they will find the envelope that fell out of the bin and they will try to deposit that check then nail her with a fee.
]]>@RedCatLinux: Yep, they should be able to find an envelope with some printing on it that matches her transaction.
]]>And guess what, direct deposit is more convenient than having to go to the bank to deposit a check, but mistakes can still happen with DD.
]]>1) Paper checks, a notably outdated form of payment that's being phased out in many countries, is still one of the more economical ways to pay a large sum of money to somebody in the United States.
2) Not every employer has the capabilities (or can easily shoulder the expense) of direct depositing paychecks to its employees.
3) Financial institutions like to play fast and loose with processing checks, catching hapless people in the lurch.
]]>I worked at a major EFT processor for many years and I programmed ATM software for a while, we never used the word "receipt" anywhere.
]]>Why are we even discussing this. Paper paychecks are more trouble than they are worth. I'll give the woman fifteen dollars if she signs up for direct deposit. Heck I'll give her twenty.
]]>EECB?
]]>If her bank's ATM is like the ones here, it requires you to use an envelope, and the feature to deposit the check and get a scan of it isn't available.
However, if the bank opens the envelope and finds something wrong, they send a letter detailing why the deposit couldn't be made.
It doesn't sound like Chase is claiming an empty envelope, or other issue. I don't recall seeing that Chase denied there was an evelope at all. It might be that she forgot to write on the envelope or provide enough invormation. Or her handwriting sucked. Or her envelope is jammed into the frame of the ATM.
I do know that Chase isn't charging the fee, and that they are unlikely to pay the fee charged by another bank.
]]>They also rounded each day's time worked to the nearest quarter hour. Being a smarty-pants, I quickly read my card when I punched back in from lunch every day, and figured out when I would need to punch out to force them to round UP...
]]>If it's the kind where the receipt merely confirms what you told the ATM about what's in the envelope, I'd guess that that's too big of a loophole to get anybody else interested.
]]>@FatLynn: Like I said...not clear on it, but it seems like it would at least be kind of murky...especially when the stop payment in this case could be the fault of the company. She has a deposit slip, yet the check didn't clear?
]]>I'd venture into the local branch of Chase and speak to management. Or perhaps the closest branch to the ATM where she deposited the check.
]]>"Katy is a poster child for the benefits of direct deposit, as well as deposit receipt-keeping."
Chase is unable to tell the OP what that transaction number from that ATM on that date was? I did it years ago, seems pretty simple.
1. If the ATM logs show no such transaction number, there is a major issue with the ATM and she should have been asked for a copy of her receipt.
2. If transaction XXX was a deposit for $XXX and they can't find the deposit envelope, the check, etc. Chase can clearly see THEY made an error.
Sounds simple to me.
]]>I've been depositing checks at ATMs since about 1998 and I've never had a problem. In fact, once I added the total of some checks incorrectly (in the bank's favor) and they corrected it for me.
Mistakes can happen, but assuming the OP is telling the truth, Chase should have figured out the problem initially and the OP should never have even had to get her check reissued.
]]>First off, she has the receipt, which in the very least says that the transaction took place. Sure, she could have put nothing in the ATM, but Chase isn't trying to claim that she did this, as far as we can tell.
Secondly, she never puts any blame on the payroll department. If anything, it seems as if she recognizes that the fee is valid, but her problem with it is that Chase ought to reimburse her for it, since Chase messed up. She never challenges being charged the fee.
]]>OP should have made her own checks at home, like I do. Using my printing press. Even if you get arrested and sentenced to French jail, Tom Hanks will bust you out and get you sent to real jail, so it's all good.
]]>@laffmakr: Chase has even rolled out the automatic check-scanning ATMs, which allow you to print a copy of the check image deposited directly on the receipt.
If she has one of those at her fingertips, I'd say the "proof" is indisputable even by the most cynical standards.
]]>This is not a problem with Chase, she should talk to her employer. Chase weren't the one who charged her, so why should they pay her back, her employer should reimburse her.
]]>@laffmakr: She has a receipt from the atm. That is the only proof she should need. They could pull the video from her at the atm but it is probably too old now.
The envelop is probably sitting on the floor or otherwise is jammed inside the atm...
]]>@WonderKatGoBoom: *Mention, not manage.
No coffee this morning. Argh.
]]>@ShruggingGalt: Sadly, I think you're in the minority. Instead of goodwill, most companies I have seen are all about maximum profit and a couple higher-ups trying to get themselves ahead.
I've seen software companies that won't upgrade 5 year old computers that their developers use, even if they are completely inadequate. Heck, I've seen outright broken equipment being used (monitor that is blotchy, has major color flaws and tiny resolution capabilities) because it won't be replaced. Employees often make equipment purchases in these companies just to get by (hard drives because they are completely out of storage space for work projects on tight deadlines, etc.). These companies never, ever give a raise to their loyal employees unless asked and then they usually push back. Some people who the company is utterly dependant on have to threaten to leave or else they will be totally financially ripped off of monetary promises made to them and then the only reason the company relents is they know that they would crash and burn in a month without them.
These same employers wonder can't seem to figure out why they have such high employee turnover and why employees are so unmotivated after being there for several years.
I have no suggestion for Katy, since I think banks are leading the charge on our new employment standards in America.
]]>@spazztastic: Let's just say, I've worked for 2 major, major corporations and some mom and pop places...and it was nothing that would have remotely been considered at any of them.
It seems utterly bizarre to me. Seems like it would somehow violate the FLSA.
]]>@Chumas: My last job would round down our hours, therefore saving themselves about an hour per paycheck. While this might have been legal, applying any overtime to the next check so they wouldn't have to pay time-and-a-half probably wasn't.
I could have won Disgruntled Employee of the Year.
As for Katy, drop an EECB, but don't manage you intend to leave. Why would they care if they've lost a customer anyway?
]]>And why do you label the payroll person as the jerk. A lot of companies have policies about reissuing checks that employees agree to upon being hired. It's basically the same as the bank's service charge. It's a penalty fee to keep it from happening again.
Most banks are open late on one or sometimes two days a week and many bank branches, including Chase, are open on Saturdays. It might not be the one right across the street, but I'm sure you can find one within a reasonable distance.
I'm not siding with Chase at all, but I think there are an enough holes in this story to make the poster chalk it up to experience and move on.
]]>As a former HR person, I'm not so sure of the legality of charging the employee to reissue their paycheck.
]]>