var json_comments = new Array("
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Smashville
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Hey, if you believe L. Ron, the gym is just what he needs.

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2 replies
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katstermonster
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@rewind: And the brainwashing, and the...oh shit. Did I just say that out loud! FORGIVE ME, ALMIGHTY XENU!!!

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PsiCop
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@katstermonster: Xenu? XENU? Did you mention Xenu??? That's deeply offensive to Scientologists to discuss! Blasphemer!!!

 Advance to 3:40 to see what I mean.

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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@PsiCop: good way to eliminate common misconceptions about your \"religion\"... tell someone that what he's asking is \"highly offensive\". he should have said \"that's offensive, this is what we really believe\"

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RandomZero
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@gStein_has joined the star bandwagon: No, the correct answer would actually be \"That's offensive. Find out what we really believe for in a few easy sessions at your local Dianetics center for a nominal fee.\"

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YouDidWhatNow?
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@gStein_has joined the star bandwagon:


The only misconception about religion that needs to be addressed is the one where people prescribe any amount of validity to them.


Fix that one, and we'll be OK.

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Julia789
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@katstermonster: As punishment, you'll have to jump back into the volcano, where the ghosties from outer space that inhabit you camped out.

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crymson777
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Doesn't the lack of ability to transport himself to the gym automatically invalidate the contract? In addition, there are predation laws that protect the mentally and physically handicapped...which all should lead to some well deserved Bally smackdown...

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MsFeasance
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@crymson777: Well, the lack of capacity to obtain a driver's license probably indicates a lack of capacity to contract, which is generally sufficient to invalidate a contract. Speaking hypothetically, anyway.

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ludwigk
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@crymson777: I doubt that there would be a clause allowing you to void your contract for a lack of transportation. I'm sure plenty of people take the bus or something to get to the gym, so, for instance, if this man didn't have a driver's license or car, that would not affect the contract.

It's been a while since I've read a Bally's contract, but the main ways of getting your contract invalidated are:

1) At Bally's sole discretion
2) Due to a move of more than 30 miles resulting in no Bally's center within a certain radius of you, or a Bally's center with different facilities such that they are inferior to the other location's, for instance, a lack of a swimming pool.

When we moved, the lack of a pool is what allowed us to get out of our gym membership.

Hopefully, this matter has been fully resolved, and the contract invalidated.

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ubermex
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@crymson777: Depending on how disabled he is, he might not have the authority to enter into contracts without a guardian present.

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Gtmac
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Bally's behavior is unconscionable.

IANAL, but I would think it would be no problem to get that contract invalidated by a court based on the man's level of competence to enter into the agreement.

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zacox
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Gtmac: This doesn't even need to go into a court. This screams to just be ignored until Bally's sends the item to their collection goons, then sue the pants off Bally's for multiple infractions. The store manager knows that the score is by now, and if he should choose the hard road, he should be aware of the consequences.

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H3ion
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Gtmac: If he's really incompetent, he would lack capacity to sign a contract and there's no way the contract would be upheld by a court. That said, Bally's should be dragged over the coals for this. It's wholly unconscionable.

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Geblah187
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@skizsrodt:

It means \"I Am Not A Lawyer\" ... basically, \"here's some legal advice, but I haven't got a clue what i'm talking about\" :)

That aside, it doesn't take a lawyer to recognize a person being taken advantage of. If it's not illegal, it SHOULD be.

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your new nemesis
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Cyberxion101: Thank you, I have been trying to decipher that one for about a month now, I just gave up. but i agree, ballys and it's goons are reprehensible. I am saddened by this and it's implications on our society.

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egoods
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@skizsrodt: Hate to change the subject, but, I, myself am a somethingawful.com \"goon\" and I'm deeply offended that you would use our name when referring to the idiots at ballys. That is all.

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corbyz
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@skizsrodt: You could always go to acronymfinder.com when you can't figure one out.

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katstermonster
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@skizsrodt: I still always giggle when I see IANAL because...it ends in ANAL. :)

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FatLynn
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Gtmac: One of Bally's \"out\" clauses is a doctor's note saying you can't work out, in case you get sick or injured. Of course, he absolutely should not have to go to that trouble.

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Awjvail
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Does the fact that the man is developmentally disabled invalidate the contract? I know it has to be decided in court, I can't quite remember the word for it though...

Anyways, stay classy Ballys.

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4 replies
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PsiCop
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Awjvail: IANAL but it all depends. Some of the developmentally-disabled have conservators appointed for them, or powers-of-attorney held by relatives. In either case the contract may not be enforceable.

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zacox
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Awjvail: Diminished capacity is one. Incompetent is another. Mentally retarded is a third.

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wickedpixel
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Awjvail: if someone else has power of attorney, the contract can be invalidated.

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Duckula22
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Bully Total Fitness

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SkokieGuy
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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When will being an employee stop shielding people from criminal sentences?


Even if this goes to court, worst case is Bally's might pay a fine and the employees might get fired, but am I the only one who thinks this is worthy of jail time for the two men?

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fantomesq
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@SkokieGuy: I don't see a criminal charge here... its not kidnapping, if he went willingly. Larceny by false pretense? Not if a court invalidates the contract. Attempted larceny... its a long shot and I doubt you can get a prosecutor to take the case. Civil damages will suffice.

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NewsBunny
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@fantomesq: I have a mentally retarded uncle. He will do almost ANTHING to make another person happy, and to make sure that person isn't angry at him.


He would also be thrilled to sign up for something on his own, even though he's really not mentally capable of doing so. My mother is his legal guardian.


For these people at Bally's to take advantage of a person such as my uncle is reprehensible.

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frank64
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@fantomesq: I see a criminal charge. Fraud at least.

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fantomesq
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@frank64: Fraud's not slam dunk either. Did they intend to provide the service they promised to? Yes, so its likely not fraud. I agree with the earlier poster who said the behavior was unconscionable but the matter is civil, not criminal.

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damageddude
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@fantomesq: What if it was a 9 year old who \"willingly\" got into a car? That 9 year old can not legally give consent and his or getting into the car without a parent's or guardian's consent could be kidnapping. The article noted the man has a mental level much lower than a 49 year old. He may not have had the ability, mentally or legally, to give consent.

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fantomesq
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@damageddude: That is a possibility but the more of an uphill battle the case is to win, the less likely that the DA will prosecute.

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lmarconi
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@damageddude: That's a good point. I wonder if kidnapping laws protect the mentally handicapped in that way...

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Rectilinear Propagation
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@lmarconi: They ought to if they don't and if that's the extent of the man's disability then they should be criminally charged.

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bohemian
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@SkokieGuy: Your right. They need to start holding people accountable for their actions. If these Bally employees were working their own independent scam they would probably already be behind bars.

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Onion_Volcano
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@SkokieGuy:


This isn't worth jailtime. Maybe a judge can smack them on the head with a spoon like mom used to do.

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FatLynn
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Hey, you can get your money back if you don't see results! I saw it on the commercial!

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3 replies
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yume_ryuu
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@FatLynn:
You can get your money back by posting an embarrassing story about the company in question on a consumer website that gets tons of hits.

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Blueskylaw
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@FatLynn:


There must be enough holes in that promise to drive/fly a mothership through.

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kateblack
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@FatLynn: Does that mean blind people never have to pay?

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SacraBos
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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I feel a golden poo is forthcoming. I LOATHE Bally's. I once signed a contract at one of their gyms, with an addition that when the gym I joined at closed (it was due to be closed), that my membership would transfer to a specific other gym close to me. When the gym closed, they transferred my membership to the farthest one they could and still be within the mile limits of the original contract. Even though there were about a dozen closer gyms available.

When I tried to get it resolved, one of the supervisors snarled at me that I should just upgrade my membership and leave them alone. Eventually showed them my copy of the contract and got it resolved, which also required several hours on hold with their corporate office.

Never again. Ever. If they drove me to Bally's, I'd sooner crawl home over broken lemon juice bottles rather than sign a contract with them.

That they did this doesn't not surprise me.

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1 replies
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Rectilinear Propagation
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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I feel a golden poo is forthcoming.

@SacraBos: We need a 'sticky' post for Golden Poo worthy events like this so that when it comes time for nominations stories like this don't get forgotten.

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henrygates
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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What is it about gyms that make their employees and policies so slimy? Is the business just so unprofitable that they can't succeed without screwing people over?

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5 replies
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BytheSea
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@henrygates: My gym, LA Fitness, is staffed entirly by teenagers who spend their entire shift staring at their phones and stare at you blankly if you ask them a question. All the fans on the cardio balcony are slowly breaking and they refuse to replace them. It's slowly turning into a noisy, stinky jungle up there.

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RogerTheAlien
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@BytheSea: You don't happen to live in Carlsbad or Cardiff (By the Sea), do you? If so, then I know what you're talking about.

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trujunglist
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@RogerTheAlien:

Must be a San Diego epidemic then because the machines at the 24 hour fitness I go to in Escondido are almost all broken in some way at this point. They don't even bother to put an out of order sign on them, I think because you can pretty much assume that they're all out of order to at least some degree.

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frank64
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@henrygates: I really don't know how Planet Fitness can charge $10 a month and not be slimy and do OK. At least I think they aren't.

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redskull
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@henrygates: It seems like once any gym signs someone up, that's pretty much all the money they can get out of you until your contract expires. So their profit probably comes from constantly bringing in new blood. If the new blood happens to be retarded and might not understand what they're signing, so much the better for Bally's.

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CumaeanSibyl
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@henrygates: Oh, gyms are profitable. Problem is, there are two ways to achieve profits:

1) Retaining sufficient continuing membership to keep your monthly earnings above a certain level; or
2) Acquiring new members at a rate equal to the loss of old members.

1) requires actually running a functional business, performing maintenance functions, and caring about the safety, health, and satisfaction of your customers. 2) just requires the hard sell. If you didn't get into the gym business for the love of fitness -- and you probably didn't -- which would you pick?

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frank64
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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You would of thought when the family showed up they would have known the gig was up and folded! They are so used to stonewalling the regular customers and getting away with it that they couldn't tell the difference!

Being crooks is one thing, but they were really incompetent to let it go this far.

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magstheaxe
November 13, 2009 4:36 PM
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@frank64: Exactly. And if the man functions at such a low level, someone in the family probably has legal guardianship, which precludes the man entering into a contract of any sort without the guardian's consent.


I'mm glad Bally's canceled the contract, but I wouldn't blame the family for suing.

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damageddude
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Assuming the developmentally disabled man was under the guardianship of somebody and couldn't legally give consent to be driven to the gym or to sign the contract: 1) ask the Bally's reps what the gym's legal department thinks and 2) ask the Bally's reps who took the man and drove him over to the gym to sign the contract, or their attorneys, if they know the meaning of the terms: incompetence, duress or kidnapping.

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Ben Popken
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Keep reaching for that brass ring, Bally's.

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Mackinstyle
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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I'm an out of shape 23 year old student but I have enough energy and anger from this that I feel like I could floor both of those Ballytards in half a round at the same time.

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RobertBaron
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Just playing devil's advocate here... but in Bally's defense, it's not like the guy was a slobbering retard. From the video, it also appears he was alone and not with some caretaker or guardian when they knocked on his door. So it's easy for us to say they're targetting the mentally challenged when in actuality all they did was knock on some guy's door.

Now the contract will probably get torn up in a court if he's unable to give informed consent and I suppose the Bally's reps could get in trouble for soliciting (are those really laws or just signs?), but both stories are somewhat disingenious in their titles unless the reps knew the guy was mentally challenged (which isn't really clear from this article or from the news video.)

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DeathByCuriosity
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@RobertBaron: Where I live, putting a \"No Soliciting\" sign on your door means it is illegal for others to solicit at your residence. It's a municipal law.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@RobertBaron: the part i am still having trouble with is why they were going door to door soliciting for memberships?
it doesn't say in the article if they were knocking on other doors or if this guy was specifically targeted

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erratapage
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@RobertBaron: Please don't use the word \"retard\". The truth is that people with developmental disabilities have varying degrees of cognitive impairment, some of which may not be visible. My stepson is pretty high functioning in some ways. But he is impulsive and prone to make bad decisions--especially about money. He also has a speech impediment that makes it sometimes difficult for him to communicate, but which marks him as a vulnerable adult. Nevertheless, we are routinely called upon to cancel contracts and recover money that businesses should have known better than to take from him. Fortunately, once we talk to management, we are usually able to fix the problem. There is no devil's advocate position that is valid here.

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BytheSea
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@RobertBaron: The point is that they shouldn't have to take off work and pay court fees to get an unreasonable contract removed. Bally should just do it since any human would understand that giving a hard sell to a mentally disabled person is evil.

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LeChiffre
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@BytheSea: In addition, if these guys entered his home without consent, there could be charges of \"Trespass to Land\", and by transporting him without consent, there could be charges of \"False Imprisonment\". A seasoned lawyer could trump up some good charges on this group.

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RobertBaron
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@BytheSea: Yes I agree, but that's not the core of either the consumerist or the local news story. Both headlines make it appear Bally's targeted a mentally challenged man to sign up for a membership.

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Rectilinear Propagation
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Both headlines make it appear Bally's targeted a mentally challenged man to sign up for a membership.

@RobertBaron: You don't think it's reaching to conclude that they targeted him for being disabled just from the headline?

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zlionsfan
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@RobertBaron: True ... a more accurate headline could be \"Another Bally's Scam Uncovered; Developmentally-Disabled Man One of Many Targeted\".

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jpdanzig
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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This is despicable behavior, even for Bally's. How did they find this poor man, any way? Did they lurk around outside a health facility for the developmentally disabled and follow him home?


Some companies are just plain evil and corrupt to the bone, and from everything I've ever heard, Bally's is one of them.


The FTC should shut them down permanently. Failing that, I would like to see everyone they've ever scammed take them on in a class action suit and sue them for every penny they're worth.


Not every gym chain is so addicted to pernicious business practices.

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1 replies
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RobertBaron
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@jpdanzig: They found him going door to door in a regular old apartment building (not a home or facility of some kind)

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parkj238
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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I remember it used to be impossible to get out of those three year contracts they would make you sign. I had thought they might have improved their practices since they got their asses sued a bunch of times.. guess not.

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MrEvil
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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My friends keep trying to get me to join a gym despite the fact I lost 100 pounds in the past year without ever setting foot in one. After reading all the stories here on the Consumerist as well as numerous hidden camera investigations by the media. It tells me that I should just stay the hell away from these gyms.

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5 replies
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TWinter
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@MrEvil: Not all gyms are evil.

My gym is great - it's locally owned, appears to have a fair number of adult, full-time employees, and the facilities are nice, clean and up-to-date. They also make an effort to attract a broad range of people by organizing a weight loss support group, offering a series of over 55 classes, offering beginner versions of many of their other classes, having on-site daycare, and partnering with a physical therapy clinic to allow physical therapy patients use the facility as part of their treatment. There are plenty of young muscle-heads there, but there are lots of other kinds of people too.

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Julia789
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@MrEvil: There are plenty of exercises you can do at home, if you don't want to go to a gym. Not to mention walking and jogging, easy and free.

There are also usually free gyms and swimming at local high school or community colleges, on certain designated days and times for public use by city residents. Check out city services.

If a gym is not for you, it's not for you! I could never stick with the gym, but enjoy walking or running with my dog. Not so much in winter, but the other 3 seasons I do OK. ;-)

My husband uses a gym regularly, it happens to be next door to his office, which helps a lot. He can show up before work, exercise, shower, and go to work without so much as returning to his car. He's lost 40 pounds since he joined a year ago.

Gym works for him, but I just can't stick with it, and don't like it at all! I don't like the atmosphere and the gym bunnies and muscle guys trying to push idiotic nutritional advice when they have no idea what they're talking about. The sale pitches and pushes to upgrade or join classes. I would just rather go for a walk or jog with my dog!

Anyhow, congrats on your new healthier physique. You must feel great!

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NewsBunny
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Julia789: Congrats to you!


I hate the gym. But I love to box and bike. I hit the part all year long on the bike (God bless you, Gore-Tex) and have a punching bag in my back yard.

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HogwartsAlum
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Julia789: That's awesome your hubby has the gym right there. If we had one that wasn't evil and it was that close, I might be tempted.

I've just been doing Pilates and walking. In the winter, since I wont' be able to walk, I bought a Richard Simmons DVD. Should be fun. And of course, skating on weekends.

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Julia789
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: I've been thinking of getting a DVD or two for exercise in winter, also. I have a little stair stepper machine, but it is really short, and doesn't do much. It sits in my closet.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Julia789: that's a great thing - more gyms should be next to offices.
right now my job is in a rented office but the company is building my department a new building which will supposedly have a gym in it. really looking forward to being able to stretch my legs on a treadmill on my lunch break when the weather isn't good to be outside

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Julia789
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@catastrophegirl: That is great you're getting a gym at your work building! Especially in winter it will be nice.

While hubby has a gym next door to his office, I have a MALL next door to my office building. A mall with PF Chang's, California Pizza Kitchen, Cosi, and a Mexican place. I would rather have a gym! Lunch hours are horribly dangerous for both my wallet and my waistline. Macy's alone, I swear they know me when I walk in...

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Julia789: actually i need it more in the summer. high temperatures make me ill. but yes, we're all ok with the fact that the company realized that paying $200 per person for gym membership subsidies was more expensive than just putting one on the ground floor.

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Crazytree
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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well most of the people work at Bally's are borderline retarded too... so I think it kind of equals out.

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2 replies
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LeChiffre
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Crazytree: LOL,,that was good and thanks for the laugh.

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erratapage
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@Crazytree: Doesn't calling the people who work in the gyms \"retarded\" sort of offend the developmentally disabled? I mean... honestly... a lot of Bally's gym employees are incompetent nincompoops. I can't say the same for most developmentally disabled people I know.

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ElizabethD
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Planet Fitness >>>>>>>>> Bally's

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Straspey
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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If this man has been diagnosed as being legally unable to care for himself and/or make competent decisions on his own behalf, then had I been one of his relatives I would have contacted the local Federal authorities and filed a complaint of kidnapping.

I certainly would have contacted Bally's corporate legal department and presented them with that scenario.

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el elarmist
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Really, it's the fault of the two employees, they probably dreamed up the scheme to get a commission for his membership. They should be fired.

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frank64
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@el elarmist: The employees probably crossed the line somewhat, but in the company culture it was probably difficult to tell.

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tankertodd
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Sounds like Bally's has been hiring ACORN community \"get out the vote\" employees. All they have to do is drive him to a chiropractor for Medicare fraud and they would have a Chicago Democratic Party trifecta.

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parkj238
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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@tankertodd: Give it a rest, the ACORN scandal is what you guys are still focusing on after all this time?

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RogueWarrior
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Ah, so they're taking a cue from Acorn driving illegals and people who don't live in the district to polling places.

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LeChiffre
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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If this story IS true, the contract is void. This is Contracts Law 101. Good grief it can't be more simple.

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McCrazy1881
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Bally's SUCKS. Never join their Gym. They Lie like hell just to sign you up.

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Schmeeky
November 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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If I recall correctly Bally's sells their contracts almost immediately for less than their value. So a contract that's worth $1000 over it's yearly term would hypothetically be sold for something like $800 to a management/collection agency. Which means Bally's pockets the 80% of the total amount up front. This means they're more concerned about bringing in new members than keeping old members because once you've signed your contract they've made their yearly profit off of you.

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