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egoods

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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Except it says \"5X more 3G Coverage\" in giant letters at the bottom. even my parents can figure that out.

9 replies

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suckapunch117

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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So I read through here, and people complain about not having signal, then want 3G signal instead. Do you realize that the frequencies that 3G data and voice operate on do not penetrate as well into houses/structures as 2G signal. At&t issued a statement some time back stating they had finished modifying all their towers with 3G capable systems, then a few months later, after the release, said in order to give maximum value to their customers, were going to upgrade all current 3G systems to different frequencies to better penetrate buildings.

So, notive the feller on the 'map for that' commercial, not once, is inside? Notive he is playing a game through most of the commercial? Then watching a ideo of a motorcycle? (Wow cool, I'm glad I have my motorcycle spreadsheet to work on since I am a high-priced consultant!) Notice the 'guy with at&t' that walks by him is not using his phone at all, and even shakes his head as if it's useless, and has NO service? Say what you will about at&t's coverage. For every 100 Verizon customer's, close to half will say it sucks, and the others will rave when asked. Same for at&t. This add, in more subtle ways, is suggesting that at&t doesn't work at all, period, unless you are in the blue areas on the map. It's body language.

How many of the guys respondign to this video once bought Axe body spray, after the first commercial with the guy and girl in the elevator? Who can say they haven't tried it off of later advertisements that are pretty mucht he same thing in other packages? It isn't sex that is selling the product, it is body language,a nd suggestion, and Americans are VERY subject to it. If I offered you Tide for $5 for a 30 oz bottle, and a random store generic for $5, which would you buy? Tide? because they advertise? Because there is a car that drives around a track a few thousand times a week with \"Tide\" on it's hood? Because of it's \"Super stain fighting POWER!!!!\" Boy what a coincidence, THAT'S what Tide says in the commercial. The happy mom that gets the grass stains out in a single load so she has more time to sip tea and read \"Martha\" and shop at K-Mart. It's America, we're all stupid and driven to brand names in the end for prestige. Verizon is exploiting something called suggestion. At&t has a valid argument, if you have any sense of marketing at all.

Also, might wanna check an iPhone's early termination fee vs. that super cool blackberry the guy from \"The Office\" (way to sully Jim Halbert's good name Verizon, with such a crappy phone) sold for you... Still $175 for arguably the most useful phone on the market, $350 for a POS outdated blackberry. (They changed a week or so ago.)

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@egoods: I don't get where the problem is. They are using AT&T's own map which is clearly visible on AT&T's own website.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@egoods: It's a toss-up. Verizon's map shows their entire coverage area, while the AT&T map only shows their 3G coverage area, so it's essentially apples to oranges. Definitely misleading on Verizon's part. However, iPhone commercials show things loading very, very quickly, far faster than what actually happens in real life. And, as Thanatos pointed out, AT&T says more people get smartphones from them than anywhere else... but that's only because everybody and their mother wants an iPhone, which makes that line of thinking deceptive too. Verizon didn't sue over that, though I suspect that without the iPhone, Verizon would have more smartphone customers than AT&T. Just my 2 cents.

Having been a customer of both networks, I can say that, at least in my area, Verizon's coverage is more reliable and AT&T's generally bites. Most people I know (and this is not an exaggeration) on the AT&T network are there for one reason: the shiny iPhone. They admit to hating AT&T, but are there for that silly phone. Perhaps Verizon should start advertising about that....

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Thanatos

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Right, cause the AT&T ads saying that more people come to get smartphones from AT&T than anywhere else isn't a little deceptive either, right?

The ONLY reason that \"more customers get smartphones from AT&T than anywhere\" can be summarized in one word: iPhone.

Without the iPhone, AT&T wouldn't have nearly the amount of smartphone users.

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SJActress

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Thanatos: I highly doubt that AT&T, with its far inferior network, would still EXIST without the iPhone.

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Ratty

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@SJActress: AT&T and T-Mobile use the same network. The coverage is great for most parts of the country, and it uses globally standard frequencies so you're Ok to travel internationally. They were still 2nd place before the iPhone even came out, so no, that's not the sole reason why.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@egoods: that's the argument, most cell customers don't even know what 3G is. I side with Verizon on this one because AT&T needs to work on it's network and it's amount of 3G coverage instead of just sitting back then suing when someone challenges it. the only reason AT&T is #2 (besides the fact that it's crap) is that it has the iPhone. we can all agree on that one

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fxsoap

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@AppleAlex:
I wondered how long it would be before this was a suing matter. I hope the ad was worth the lawsuit

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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most cell customers don't even know what 3G is.

Verizon is also a little confused about what 3G is. What Verizon is describing as 3G service on their super-red map is CDMA (1x), which is actually closer to AT&T's EDGE network (2.5G). For the AT&T map they're using W-CDMA(HSPA+ 14.4mb/s). So they're comparing their 2G (or 2.5G) service to ATT 3.5G service area, in terms of speed. What they should be comparing themselves to is AT&T's EDGE coverage map. The slowest of AT&T's 3G service is faster than Verizons EVDO service.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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So verizon is not even comparing apples to apples. How nice of them. I wonder if there is a map for that!

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Wireless Joe: I can see people screaming at the television, \"I don't know what 3G is, but I want MORE, NOW!!!\"

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CapitalC

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ZeusThaber: I can has more 3Gs please?

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ZeusThaber: If you read the issue, its not the red/blue portions, but rather than WHITE portions. On Verizon's map, the white portion is area that they do not have ANY service. That is not true with AT&T's map.

Is it splitting hairs? Probably, but I also bet that Verizon really has no problem being a bit misleading.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@TuxthePenguin: Agreed.

If I owned a mega-company, I would convince you that the white portions were filled with candy goodness.

And that 3G causes cancer.

Now do you want 3G? Do you!?

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ZeusThaber: Yes! All the really GOOD stuff causes cancer... :-)

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@egoods:
Most people will think that 3G coverage is all that's out there these days.

","

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Duke_Newcombe sez íViva la Revolucion de Chihuahua!

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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Yes, Verizon is incorrect. AT&T quite often doesn't have coverage even in non-white or non-blank spaces in its map.

Happy to have cleared that up.

5 replies

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Duke_Newcombe sees what you did there...: When I was in college, I had AT&T cell service on their shitty, shitty satellite system. Long story short, I got incredibly spotty cell service. It didn't work AT ALL in my dorm room--I had a giant fight with then boyfriend Ruthless about the fact that he came to see me, called me, and I ignored his call (because it didn't ring). I was alerted to the fact that I had gotten a call, oh, an hour after he had left. I went to the middle of the quad, as far as I could get from every building, and called AT&T's customer service (after reconciling with now-Mr. Ruthless). I was complaining about my lack of cell service. They told me to call back using a land line because they could barely understand me. Blargh! Eventually they promised to send me a new phone (I think I might have even agreed to pay with it, whatever, their cell phone was messing up my relationship). Four weeks later, I still didn't have a new phone...they tried telling me that I had signed for it (nope) that they'd sent it, would sent it again, etc. Eventually, a CSR was straight with me and told me that it was on backorder, and would be another 6 weeks minimum before they had any. I broke my service then and there, and signed up with Verizon. And my relationship recovered.

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Snaptastic

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Duke_Newcombe sees what you did there...: I would beg to differ. I've driven through the barren plains of Kansas and eastern Colorado, and all over rural Mississippi and have always had coverage. (now ask me about back when I had Sprint, and THEN I would complain about no coverage anywhere)

I was watching the offending commercial this morning and was thinking it was inaccurate...

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Duke_Newcombe sees what you did there...:
The problem is GSM has better coverage than CDMA. ATT with roaming beats verizon any day.

They might win this case since Verizon is comparing their Analog/digital/3g voice/data map with only ATTs 3g only map.

If they only compared 3g with 3g then they would have easily have gotten away with this.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@qwerty001984: The problem comes when you CAN'T get the \"with roaming\" bit, as is the case with prepaid users.

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Science is for girls!

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@qwerty001984: I could throw my cell phone out my apartment window and hit the AT&T national headquarters and I still don't have service about 50% of the time.

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hi

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Kishi: The apps you speak of I think were for VOIP and I beleive they worked on a jailbroke IPod Touch which didn't have the phone enabled. So it's really not that funny.

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K-Bo

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Science is for girls!: I used to live in a dorm under a watertower that was also an att tower. No signal. No signal any time I got more than 5 miles away from I-40 anywhere in nc. Got a verizon phone ( they didn't even serve my area, I had to lie and get a non-local phone number) it worked better. I never did get how verizon could work better where they claim not to work than at&t did in the tiny areas they claimed they had signal.

","

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consumed

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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Verizon's map is very deceptive. It shows their LICENSED 3G areas, not their ACTUAL deployed signal coverage.

Come on, are we really to believe that all North and South Dakota are blanketed with Verizon 3G signals? I highly, highly doubt it. Verizon holds the licenses for the radio spectrum in these areas, but it's highly unlikely you'll get 3G everywhere you see red.

Very deceptive advertising.

9 replies

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kmiles

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@consumed: I travel through North Dakota (from east to west on I-94, and many points north and south of I-94 as well) and have better 3G service there than I do most places in Minneapolis.

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Where The Mild Things Are

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@consumed: My family is from Wyoming (and I have to drive through the Dakotas to visit). I'm not sure about 3G, but I know we ALL have Verizon because a lot of the time that's the only service you can get (and you don't want to be driving through South Dakota in December wo/ cell coverage).

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H3ion

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@consumed: How much advertising can you point to that is not very deceptive? The maps are supposed to refer to relative 3G coverage. If the map data is way out of whack with reality, I would think AT&T would have a decent case but if the map data is reasonably accurate, I'd say the AT&T suit is a strike suit designed to get attention.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I live in Sioux Falls, SD and I have both an iPhone and a BlackBerry Tour; neither is 3G in any part of the state. But I will say, when I travel across the state, my Verizon (BlackBerry) phone has coverage the whole way, whereas my AT&T phone (iPhone) is very spotty.

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pandroid

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@consumed: I can't speak for 3G coverage, but I have never been let down by verizon's coverage. My parents tend to live in very rural areas due to the type of work they do, and I haven't ever lost signal out there. The only time I had trouble was 10,000 feet up a mountain. It was a little spotty there... Not totally surprising.

Every time I think about switching carriers, it always seems like one of my friends starts having coverage issues, and I stay put.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Actually, yes you will - the service in those areas are provided by roaming partners (generally), not Verizon, but a Verizon customer would get service there.

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hmbddd

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@consumed: My parents and extended family are all from waaaay upstate NY, up in the mountains. I'm talking hick town, three teeth amongst the whole population. I remember when they got a Wal-Mart and everyone was excited. And they have Verizon 3G coverage. I was shocked when I found out.

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ktetch

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@hmbddd: Same here. I live in a fairly rural part of Georgia (they filmed My Cousin Vinny here, if that's any indication) and I live in the sticks of that county (we got one general store within 10 miles) - for the fangbangers out there, think Hotshot. I have 3-4 bars (out of 4) for both 1x and EVDO. AT&T has nothing.

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November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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@consumed: We really should hold their feet to the fire over that.

","

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mralmostpopular

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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\"...AT&T customers cannot use their phones in large portions of the United States.\"

Sounds about right to me.

2 replies

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November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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@mralmostpopular: there's no AT&T coverage at all in North Dakota. here in my town in California AT&T has to piggyback off a tower owned by Verizon to bring us our coverage. surprisingly even tho no one knows about us and we're in the middle of nowhere we still have 3G coverage.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@AppleAlex:
ATT can't piggy back off a Verizon tower.
Verizon is CDMA and ATT is GSM.

Now ATT can rent space on the same tower for their equipment.

GSM has coverage all over ND and ATT has free roaming.
ATT even has some of their own towers in ND.
I love how people lie about coverage for some strange reason. [www.coveragemaps.com]

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@qwerty001984: And we ALL know coverage maps completely accurately reflect the signal someone will get in a given area... And \"free\" roaming really shouldn't count when part of their customer base can't access it.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@qwerty001984: While I have no personal experience with AT&T, the experience of people I know has given me the impression that when it comes to voice traffic, Verizon wins in the places I've been to. My gf has an AT&T phone and there's never been a time that I can recall that we've been somewhere that I've had no signal whatsoever whereas she has had a much more difficult time getting a signal, not to mention dropped calls. I've heard similar anecdotes from other friends of mine.

Of course it might just be different for different areas of the country, or I'm a statistical outlier. But in terms of voice coverage, I don't feel any reason to switch off of Verizon. Since I'm only slightly tempted to start using data on my phone, I'm not looking too much into ATT. And that's coming from a person who's job relies on AT&T.

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psm321

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@bonzombiekitty: My problem is that having signal is useless when it's not reliable. In the 2 or 3 weeks I had Verizon I had dropped calls 3 times. And when my mom was visiting she had dropped calls twice in one day (also Verizon). I live in a large suburban/urban area. In the 6+ years I've had T-Mobile I've had maybe 2 or 3 dropped calls total. Yes, there are areas where I have no signal and Verizon would, but I know where those are and I know that everywhere else my phone will work reliably (except yesterday's outage... that was annoying).

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@bonzombiekitty:
That is funny my girlfriend has Verizon and when we travel cross country ATT never looses a signal while verizon does.

Verizon never works in basements either.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@qwerty001984: Do you realize you're one of the only ones defending AT&T? And it's one thing to look at maps and say there is coverage, it's quite another thing for someone to say they live somewhere and from experience, know there is or isn't coverage.

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Logan26

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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News flash for ya pal. I've been with AT&T for the last 6 years and their damn service sucks to all high heaven. My current phone is a GSM phone. I live in the greater Baltiore/Washington DC metro areas and signal and reception is spoty at best. Take a clover leaf interchange lose single, go into a single story home, lose signal. AT&T coverage sucks so it is very unlikely Verizon is lieing in their commericial.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Logan26:
Go to the chicago area or any where from Chicago to New Orleans or anywhere from Kansas to Miami.

GSM and ATT has way better coverage than verizon across the country. My girlfriend has Verizon and their coverage is weak everyone except big cities. They do not even have major highways completely covered like ATT does.

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SJActress

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@qwerty001984: The town where I grew up has 2000 people in it (yes, 2000). The nearest recognizable city is Toledo, which is well over 100 miles away. The ONLY phone service that works there is Verizon. Oh, you can GET other carriers there, but your PHONE WON'T WORK. So, yeah...you should probably rethink that whole \"weak everyone [sic] except big cities\".

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@qwerty001984: well when I checked they didn't have coverage or towers there. I would've had to use GRPS or something like that which probably meant using Rogers or some other Canadian network since I would've been so close. I didn't end up going in the end

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@AppleAlex:
No you did not check att website or the GSM coverage maps or the att towers site. If you did you would know that ATT has a lot of coverage in ND.
[www.wireless.att.com]
[www.atttowers.com]
[www.coveragemaps.com]

","

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ben

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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AT&T's complaint seems to be that Verizon is accurately depicting its (AT&T's) 3G coverage...

5 replies

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That's Consumer007 to you

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ben: Perhaps instead they should have sued them over releasing trade \"non-coverage\" secrets lol. The false lying propaganda maps in AT&T brochures for potential victims, er, customers will now have to be reprinted. Doh! :)

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matt1978

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ben: I don't know...there's a good deal more 3G coverage in TN than that map shows.

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Cogito Ergo Bibo

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@matt1978: Same thing in Virginia. We have ATT 3G in Charlottesville, rolled out months ago. Other places well west of the blue on the ATT map received 3G in Virginia at the same time. So not only is Verizon comparing apples to oranges, they don't even have the oranges depicted accurately.

Very deceptive.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Cogito Ergo Bibo: Hmm, that's odd, b/c I also live in VA (live not too far West of Charlottesville), and one of my friends is an AT&T rep who said they are bringing 3G coverage to test markets west of Charlottesville (Waynesboro/Harrisonburg/I-81), not that they had 3G coverage already. (Also their coverage map on their website shows that they don't have 3G coverage, though they do have data coverage west of Charlottesville) Not drying to be a douche bag, just not sure of your sources.

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Cogito Ergo Bibo

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@PermanentStar: I know Wintergreen, VA has 3G. I'm not saying everything west of C-ville has it. Just that C-ville does and that other places west of here do. The map only shows the I-95 corridor and areas east of there. That's clearly incorrect. That's all.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ben: If they were doing JUST that, it would be fine, but they're not. Verizon is comparing all of their service availability against just 3G on the AT&T side. That's deceptive.

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cmdrsass

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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@ben: ding ding ding. you win a cookie!

","

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junip

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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I don't particularly like either company, but the \"there's a map for that\" commercials are particularly annoying.

2 replies

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OmniZero

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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@junip: Same goes for the \"there's an app for that\" commercials. It has led to many parodies and it is really annoying in general. Really? There's an app that'll let me make notes and look up words? There's games too? Is there an app to make my phone a....phone?

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Kishi

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@OmniZero: I think so- didn't Vonage put an app on there? (Which made me laugh- it's an app so I can use my phone as a... phone? Okay.)

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Kishi: I thought the commercial was kind of amusing considering the main complaint I hear about AT&T's coverage, especially anecdotal evidence.

","","

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November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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Sprint should jump on this bandwagon and release a map comparing its 4G coverage to Verizon to AT&T.

5 replies

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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That would be comparing a few little dots to no little dots.

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dohtem

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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@wickedpixel: I dunno if that can stem the bleeding of subscribers. Sprint needs help.

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scoosdad

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@dohtem: Our company recently switched all its cell phones from Verizon to Sprint. Hundreds of them.

That lasted about ten days. Then we all went back to Verizon.

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dohtem

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@scoosdad: lmao.

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November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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@dohtem: I would personally be a happy camper if either SK Telecom or KDDI bought it out. Especially after looking at KDDI service in Japan. And their phones. Solar-powered waterproof phone FTW.

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November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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@wickedpixel: \"While those 2 fight over 3G coverage we bring you 4G coverage\", if Sprint's network is so good why are they #4?

","

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November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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it's just an excuse so Verizon will stop showing how much AT&T sucks

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ZukeZuke

November 13, 2009 4:34 PM

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Wussies!

Yeah, apparently AT&T coverage sucks even when they supposedly have coverage. We're in Cali and a girl at work w/an iPhone can't even get reception in her own house/block, but if she walks down to the next block, she does. Go figure.

","

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ZukeZuke

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I think those Verizon ads are actually kinda clever...

1 replies

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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@ZukeZuke: i'll agree with you on that, genius marketing.
Also, am i the only one who thinks that the word \"app\" needs to go ahead and die a fiery death?

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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This map reveals to me that AT&T, my current cellular company, has been using my monthly payments to them for the last seven years to build mansions for its executives instead of building network capability. This explains why I can barely get a signal while I'm at work, or when I go back home to visit my parents. It explains why the internet on my phone crawls along like dial-up. It explain why AT&T only recently got a signal in the DC subway system -- and then only in certain places. It explains while calls don't connect, or while they connect in only one direction.

This map reveals to me that my cell phone company sucks and maybe I should switch.

So AT&T, show me why this map isn't true. Show me your map that says you've got more 3G in more places -- instead of 1G or whatever the one that sucks is called. Don't be a whiner, don't SUE. They kicked sand in your face. Get up and kick Verizon's ass and show them, and me, why I should continue to be a customer and not switch over to them.

5 replies

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Cogito Ergo Bibo

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@XianZomby: Actually, they can show you a map showing that there is more ATT 3G available than depicted. ATT rolled out 3G in areas in white in Virginia months ago. In Charlottesville, we have certainly had that service since then. It's not on the map Verizon depicts. Nor are the other areas even further west from us where 3G was also rolled out at that time. The Verizon map only shows coverage along the I-95 corridor and east of there. Not accurate. Another poster upthread stated that the coverage for Tennessee was underrepresented as well.

Not that I'm thrilled with ATT. I'm thinking of jumping to Verizon and snagging an Android phone. But ATT still has a point.

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redrolla

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@XianZomby: AT&T just got a signal in the Metro system because of Congress. They made Metro break the exclusivity contract with Verizon in order to receive additional federal funds. AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile all were not allowed to put towers in the Metro system until now. They JUST got the right to expand their networks down there, that's why reception is very spotty.

Do you watch the local news here? Ever? It's been a big story for weeks.

I've had an AT&T blackberry in the DC area for about 5 years. I really don't have the same problems. Only thing I agree with is that the monthly bills are way too high.

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AustinTXProgrammer

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@XianZomby: AT&T's urban coverage has greatly improved in the last few years. They are focusing on areas with a large population instead of raw area.

Besides, at my mother in law's house AT&T is all that works, not Sprint or Verizon. Haven't tested t-mobile recently enough, they may or may not have a roaming agreement.

I used to have to use AMPS, but GSM started working around the time AMPS was finally laid to rest.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@XianZomby: they don't, they just don't want consumers knowing exactly how bad their network sucks. AT&T is the only reason I'm not getting an iPhone, and Apple says \"we're very happy with AT&T and we feel they've done a lot to advertise the iPhone\" which is Steve Jobs speak for \"as soon as the exclusivity contract ends we're dropping the biggest divorce since the Declaration of Independence\"

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@XianZomby:
Well, 1g and 2/2.5g probably both qualify for your definition of 'suck'. 'g' itself is just a term that means almost nothing in a quantifiable sense. It means generation. So its 1st generation, 2nd generation, 3rd generation. That doesn't really mean anything. 1st generation could be just talking. 2nd generation could have been connecting telepathically with each others minds if we had made some sort of crazy break through and advanced that quickly. The actual changes in technology isn't something you can know just by it being 2nd generation. Only thing you know is it should be better.

1g=talking
2/2.5g=texts and later adapted for SLOW web browsing(it was never meant to be used for that)
3g=good web browsing

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mrsam

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Reading these comments brought back fond memories, of circa 10 years ago, when I dumped AT&T, because their coverage sucked. In the middle of New York City.

It sucked back then, and looks like it still sucks now. Nothing's changed.

But Verizon isn't squeaky clean in my book either. They suck too, but for a different reason: their phones are all severely castrated. In Verizon-land, \"Bluetooth\" means \"you can pair with a headset\", and that's about it. On my T-mobile phone, I can upload and download pics and MP3s via bluetooth, pair the phone, etc. Can't do that with Verizon, and the latest phones my folks got from Verizon can't even use an MP3 ringtone, unless you pay those leaches a few bucks to buy one. Even though that damn phone has a micro-sd slot, and even though I can shove some .mp3 files on that, and even though the phone's dinky interface sees the MP3 files on the SD card, and can play in its crappy media player, there's just no way to select an MP3 file as a ringtone, using the phone's decrepit interface.

Screw both of them. A pox on both houses. I hope that they sue each other into bankruptcy.

Phew, just had to get this off my chest.

8 replies

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ktetch

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@mrsam: It's easy to make MP3s into ringtones on your verizon phone. I've been doing it for years, first with my VX8300, and now with my env2.

You need the data cable, that's all. Then, go find an open source program called Bitpim. You can cut any mp3 down, in the program, decide on the quality (bits, stereo/mono volume)then it'll convert it, and have it ready for upload. I've got a bunch of UK TV themes from the 80s (crystal maze, treasure hunt, interceptor, The Professionals [70s]) and some music clips (the start of Living on my Own, the loud non-singing bit in the middle of Extreme's play with me) for alarms. Wife has the Dr Who theme for her ringtone for when I call.

very easy.

I also use bitpim to back up all my SMS messages

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@mrsam: My motorola phone, I make Mp3 ringtones right here on my computer and send them to my phone with no problems. My old samsung a930 of course, was disabled from accepting ringtones that way which sucked ass.

I like Verizon, honestly. Can't say they are the best carrier, but they work well for my uses. Just wish their prices weren't so high.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@mrsam: Yes, one of the reasons Verizon's network is so good. they dumb down their smartphones. which is why they'll never accept the iPhone without banning the app store from working on their network.

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cc82

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@AppleAlex: @XianZomby:
The Verizon crippling phone argument isn't really valid these days... Droid, Eris, Storm2, Imagio, Touch Pro2, etc. are all unadulterated by Verizon. The Android Marketplace is fully intact for their upcoming Android phones...

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@cc82: Add the Blackberry Tour to that as well. Shocked the shiat out of me when my company replaced my beloved Alltel Blackberry 8830 with a Verizon Tour. Even the GPS works without paying Verizon an extra $9/mo.

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rickhamilton620

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@cc82: This, the most they've done to their latest smartphones is change the wallpaper/theme. And yes, Droid is a \"Google Experience\" device, meaning that the UI and much of the feature set can't be altered by any carrier or phone maker.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@mrsam: Verizon crippling phones. That's why I stay with AT&T and with GSM also. I liek the freedom of moving my SIM chip from handset to handset. I like being able to flash the software on my handset and debrand it (although that's probably a Sony Ericcson thing, not an AT&T thing) I like that AT&T offers me the subsidy unlock code at the end of my contract, so I can give my AT&T GSM phone to my mom, who can then use it on T-Mobile. I like that AT&T doesn't cripple features (not so much) on my phones, and then try to call it a convienience.

But I still think their network sucks.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@XianZomby: BTW- CDMA providers in Asia also use a removable chip instead of the US-style ESN-based activation. But the debranding is a SE Int'l only thing- SE Japan phones can't be debranded.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@XianZomby:
With T-mobile you can unlock a phone every 90 days while you are with them, as long as your account is in good standing and you are under contract. (maybe even after you are off contract)

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humphrmi

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@XianZomby: I appreciate the tip that I can unlock my AT&T phone at the end of my contract.

However, I have to take issue with the rest. I bought a Pantech Slate from AT&T, and while they didn't formally cripple any features, they added a bunch of crap to my phone, that I can't get rid of, that effectively cripples it. For instance, they load a bunch of pay apps, like My-Cast Weather, WikiMobile, yellowpages, and some stupid \"mobile banking\" app, that I can get free elsewhere. Except I can't, because their pay apps can't be deleted from the phone, so I don't have enough memory to load the free versions of these apps.

Then, let's talk about my contact list. In the middle of my \"A's\", I have the following:
- AT&T Account Balance
- AT&T Directory Assistance
- AT&T Music ID
- AT&T Refill Your Account
- AT&T Voice Dial
The account balance feature is available via dozens of other apps. Directory assistance? Sure, I need help dialing \"411\". Music ID? Great, except there's not enough room for music on my phone with all the un-deletable paid apps. Refill Your Account? Oh Come On, every single person who buys an AT&T phone buys minutes at a 7-11? And voice dial, what a friggin' joke. But can I delete these? No, they are permanent.

Same with the stupid games. Same with the templates. Same with the sample picture gallery. The list goes on an on.

AT&T does a fair job of crippling their phones.

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Trai_Dep

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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It's captioned, \"3G\".
If AT&T's potential customers are so dumb as to need further help, AT&T needs to aim higher.

3 replies

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Trai_Dep: Even more peculiar, is that the 3G description at the bottom is the identical font and size as those used to identify which company corresponds to which map. If the 3G caption is confusing to customers, finding which map belongs to AT&T probably will be also.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Trai_Dep: Not only that, but the commercial has a disclaimer at the bottom of the screen \"voice and data available outside 3G areas\"... kinda moots AT&T's argument

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Trai_Dep: stupid people are like free lunch for any company.

Fight for your stupid people!

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Is that why so many people use iPhones while they're driving? They're trying to get somewhere with a signal?

1 replies

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@hamburglar: Nope, just they just can't stop texting. I love your joke tho

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Al Swearengen

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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You can't even get AT&T service in the AT&T building in chicago, so who is lying when they say they have service everywhere?

3 replies

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Al Swearengen: I think it's funny that many AT&T stores in Florida have cell repeater sites in them. 5 bars inside the store, 1-2 bars as soon as you walk out the front door. One of the reps even showed me the repeater.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Al Swearengen: now that's just sad

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@Al Swearengen: In DC, people spend a lot of time stuck in the tunnels of the DC Metro/subway. Up until mid last month, the only cellular service that worked in the tunnles and stations was Verizon -- becasue they had an exclusive contract to install antennas underground. So the end result is that while your trains is stuck in a tunnel underneath the Potomac, the Verizon customers could talk on their cell phones or text message, while the AT&T customers could read the on-board advertising from AT&T about how their service is in more places than anybody else.

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AngryK9

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Oh yeah. Didn't see this one coming...

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JiminyChristmas

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Boys and girls, this is where all of those frivolous lawsuits you hear so much about really come from. It's not the proverbial ambulance chaser with a client who has a personal injury claim. It's a corporation with an in-house legal team or law firm on retainer (trying to justify their job or their fee) suing some other business.

This sort of thing is in the same category as the other Consumerist stories you read about Monster Cable or Monster.com clogging the courts with lame trademark infringement suits. This is why the rhetoric around so-called tort reform is so screwed up. All of the \"reforms\" restrict the ability of individuals to pursue their grievances in court and do nothing to constrain the behavior of the large businesses responsible for filling court dockets with BS.

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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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This seems as good a place as any to update my Verizon saga...
My house is apparently on the edge of some old Verizon networking map. The signal strength from the nearest Verizon tower is incredibly weak, but there's great signal from a nearby Alltel tower. The tech said that they'd re-sync our phones (whatever that means) to attach to the nearby Alltel tower. (I'm afraid that i will then only attach to alltel towers, giving me poor reception everywhere else)

4 replies

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@gStein_has joined the star bandwagon: Dial *228 on your phone and update the roaming list. This will update the PRL (tower list).

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@gStein_has joined the star bandwagon:
You should be able to do that yourself in the \"network settings\" menu on your phone. I could be wrong though...

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@temporaryerror: I used to have a lot of trouble with my phone at my house (in rural VA) but I called Verizon, got on a new plan with a new prl (preferred roaming list, for those who don't know, it just tells your phone what towers to look for in what order) and a new phone, and now I'm good to go. They have a return period if it doesn't work for equipment...might be worth a shot.

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@gStein_has joined the star bandwagon: We are on the edge of service, too. Look at their coverage map online, says we are within signal but it's the ADIRONDACKS....

I have to walk out on the porch to barely get 1 bar, out to the road to have 1-2 bars. None in the house.

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Cant_stop_the_rock

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Simple solution - if Verizon wants to prevent any confusion, they could just use one color for AT&T 3G and one color for AT&T non-3G service. The blank areas of the map would give the impression that there is no service to someone who doesn't understand what 3G refers to, which is probably more than half of the people in this country.

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lesbiansayswhat

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Whatever, basic coverage with AT&T is actually pretty bad. In Chicago there are tons of dead zones and I got absolutely none in the state of Maine. It's 2009, how is that possible?

1 replies

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@lesbiansayswhat: It's AT&T... did you really have to ask?

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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This is like the razor blades, now with an extra G and a lubricating strip.

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LatherRinseRepeat

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I get crappy 3G reception inside my place. But I get full bars when I switch my phone to EDGE. ATT really needs to step up their 3G service.

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H3ion

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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\"Sir, that's libel.\"
\"No it's not. It's true.\"
\"But the greater the truth, the greater the libel.\"

I wish both Verizon and AT&T would spend their money on reducing prices or improving service instead of on these idiotic lawsuits.

We used to use Nextel (now Sprint) because we got very good Motorola phones with walkie talkie capabilities and they would work world wide. They'd partner with Vodafone, Orange, BT, DT, FT and you would be able to call from anywhere in Europe. The only problem was that the phones didn't work in large parts of the United States, including most of Texas, all of Oklahoma, Oregon, Florida, etc. Since we spent around 80% of our time in the US, this didn't work out too well and some of us began carrying our personal Verizon phones whenever we traveled. The company finally figured out that it didn't make a lot of sense to reimburse us for our personal phones and also pay for a company phone so Nextel was dropped.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Heh... First time the non-technical Partner saw the commercial, he asked \"So what's 3G?\"... Even he caught on to it, and he hates cell phones.

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oldtaku

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I guess a lawsuit is cheaper than upgrading your crap-ass network when you don't have Steve breathing down your neck to get you to kill techs (yes literally) to roll out any 3G at all in time for the iPhone 3G.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Amen. I wish people were more protest oriented. A few trashed AT&T stores across the country would definitely get the message across - \"Oh, I'm sorry officer, I was searching for more bars in more places.\"

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Whats funny, is that we all can argue over coverage maps.From the very people that sell the service.Not like that's a biased coverage representation at all....

I know its hideously impractical, but an impartial third-party company with updated coverage info on all the carriers would put these issues to rest.And we could judge carriers based on 'honest' coverage info, because from personal experience I've had no signal in an area the map says is perfectly covered.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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They show 3g here, and Verizon isn't 3g. I think if At&t wants to win, it would be easy to show by going to some of these places that Verizon say's they are 3g but are not to win.
It's all a bunch of marketing goop anyway.

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viqas

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I have no problem using verizon anywhere outside of my area of residence. I have a problem IN my area of residence, shit even at&t has 4 bars in my bedroom and verizon gives me 1 or 2. i cant really switch because im on my parents plan.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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But... I thought AT&T DOESN'T work in Montana.

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P_Smith

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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AT&T is concerned about \"less technically savvy potential customers\"?

AT&T is dependent upon customers' ignorance. How else would they get people to sign for idiotic two year contracts?

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Funny thing is... I don't even pay attention to the actual geography of the commercial. I just know I get far better coverage than most of my peers using other providers, including AT&T. *(I have Verizon). Plus I think the commercial is cute!

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MyTQuinn

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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AT&T has plenty of commercials touting their 3G network. Apparently they thing their (potential) customers know what 3G is, or at least think it's a good thing. It's disingenuous of them to claim that a map depicting their 3G coverage is confusing or misleading.

And yes, there are plenty of areas in the white space where AT&T offers no coverage at all.

Personally, I would have more of an issue with the \"5X More\" claim. Is it really \"5X More\", or \"5X as much\"? There's a difference, and it could be a legal sticking point.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Sprint works for me, even though it has the worst coverage of any major carrier. It's cheap and I seldom leave major metro areas. When I do, I don't mind having my phone go quiet!

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Naame

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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This is dumb. Verizon already changed the commercials to include that disclaimer. If AT&T wins this lawsuit then MS should be able to win a lawsuit against Apple for their commercials.

(Before the Apple fan boys get their panties tied up in a knot please note that I am simply making a point. I do not think that either AT&T or MS should file for such lawsuits let alone win them.)

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Well, the only place where I might have a beef with Verizon's coverage is south Texas. Out between Laredo and Robstown on 44 west. But there ain't much out there but buzzards and coyotes.

AT&T's 3G map coverage I can say is very accurate since all I had was their slower service for the 2 years I had service with them in the company.

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Kyuso

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Meh, I've been with AT&T for years (prior to the Cingular switch and then back to being AT&T). Mine may be an atypical experience (or just where I live) but I've never had a severe problem with coverage or service.

I can see a non-tech-savvy person looking at the map and making the wrong assumption. My mom is the type who would because she has zero concept about anything technological. She's put DVDs in the CD player (they're both small shiny disks, right?) and used to worry that by using the CD-ROM drive to play CDs, you'd break it from overuse.

This would confuse her :(

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hi

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Tribalism with cell phones. Fun! My phone company is better than yours! No it's not! Yes it is! No it's not! Shut it already.

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wagenejm

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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The real issue here is why do people take advertisements with anything other than a grain of salt? I laughed at the commercial, because I thought it was humorous, but I sure as hell didn't actually think for a minute it was accurate. It's a Verizon commercial! OF COURSE they're going to make their own service look superior.

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angryneo

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Guess who sounds like a whiny, little b****?

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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As a technology guy AND a one-time-and-somewhat-unappreciative-of-the-way-that-company-works Verizon employee, I'm actually impressed that they bothered changing the words they were using in the early versions of the ad.

Yes, the maps say what Verizon wants them to say, and conveniently leave out some facts. But they don't claim otherwise and the facts that are depicted are accurate. So AT&T decides the best way to get at them is a LAWSUIT?

Preposterous. And one more example of what happens when people try to resist change.

Jeff Yablon
President & CEO
[answerguy.com]
Answer Guy and Virtual VIP Computer Support, Business Change Coaching and Virtual Assistant Services

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That's Consumer007 to you

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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You know, I really wish these companies would start recording each other's horrible customer service calls and using THAT as competitive advertising.

\"They treated Sam like dog shit when he had a problem. We won't.\"

Whether true or not, making it the focal point it should be as a competitive advantage gives consumers more leverage and could actually become a metric for improving the organizations.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Don't want to compete? There's a lawyer for that.

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bsteimel

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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I saw the adds and thought it was a rip off of the \"theres an app for that message.\"

But i had no confusion that they were relating to 3g coverage and not regular voice and email coverage. verizon says it has the largest 3g network along with sprint since they use the same network. No confusion here

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tsmvengy

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Is this map more accurate?

[vzwmap.verizonwireless.com]

Not as complete as the map in the ad but still a lot better than AT&T's.

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squishyalt

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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According to AT&T's own 2008 Full Financial Report (available on their website) they made $12.867 BILLION in NET profit in 2008 and they are reporting $9.516 BILLION in NET profits so far this year.

The only reason that AT&T's 3G network and call quality sucks is because they don;t give a damn about their customers. It certainly isn't because they don;t have the resources to fix it.

Rot and burn you greedy bastards.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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Too bad, it's one of the most clever advertising campaigns in recent memory.

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golddog

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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So if I'm in one of AT&Ts 3G blue areas, and I'm talking to someone with an iphone on another AT&T phone and the call drops 10x in a 10min conversation, while both mobiles have 5 bars, does that count as coverage? If anything Verizon's AT&T map is *understated* :-)

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edguitar

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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AT&T doesn't work in Montana at all

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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The map does say \"3G COVERAGE\" on it. Not sure if AT&T can win this one, but I am sure it's doing heavy damage to them.

That said, while I am no fan of either company, my friends on AT&T are always complaining about coverage, dropped calls, problems using the web on their iPhones, etc.

I think Verizon has touched on a common AT&T complaint and AT&T doesn't like it. That is the bottom line.

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November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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All cellular coverage maps are fundamentally misleading anyway because they are only gross representations of where a line of sight signal MIGHT be available to begin with.
As we all know, there may be many dead spots within the map coverage areas that cannot be shown on the gross scale of the maps that are available to the public.

1 replies

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squishyalt

November 13, 2009 4:35 PM

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@StarVapor: True. But, if you really want the scoop on who's got the best network, ask the subscribers.

I have used them both all over my state and I can tell you that Verizon is definitely far superior to AT&T in coverage and call quality.

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suckapunch117

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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(Reposting as I accidentally made it a reply to someone else's comment.)

So I read through here, and people complain about not having signal, then want 3G signal instead. Do you realize that the frequencies that 3G data and voice operate on do not penetrate as well into houses/structures as 2G signal. At&t issued a statement some time back stating they had finished modifying all their towers with 3G capable systems, then a few months later, after the release, said in order to give maximum value to their customers, were going to upgrade all current 3G systems to different frequencies to better penetrate buildings.

So, notice the feller on the 'map for that' commercial, not once, is inside? Notice he is playing a game through most of the commercial? Then watching a ideo of a motorcycle? (Wow cool, I'm glad I have my motorcycle spreadsheet to work on since I am a high-priced consultant!) Notice the 'guy with at&t' that walks by him is not using his phone at all, and even shakes his head as if it's useless, and has NO service? Say what you will about at&t's coverage. For every 100 Verizon customer's, close to half will say it sucks, and the others will rave when asked. Same for at&t. This ad, in more subtle ways, is suggesting that at&t doesn't work at all, period, unless you are in the blue areas on the map. Whereas there is a great many at&t customer's like myself that will say they never have a problem. (1-3 dropped calls a month in my area, in almost rural Iowa, I have consistent 3G coverage, and Verizon and all other carriers here stink. At&t is the only one that BOTHERED to build towers out here at all.) It's body language. They're suggesting at&t has no service where there is Verizon service ever, and that Verizon is everywhere, whereas at&t is nowhere. Check the seemless transition from at&t customer shaking his head in dismay at his phone to the map comparison that says 5x 3G COVERAGE. (No coverage on shaky head guy? Can't tell. Never get to see the phone that says 'edge' instead of 3G or no signal at all.)

How many of the guys responding to this video once bought Axe body spray, after the first commercial with the guy and girl in the elevator? Who can say they haven't tried it based off of later advertisements that are pretty mucht he same thing in other packages? I'd say a minority. It isn't sex that is selling the product, it is body language, and suggestion, and Americans are VERY subject to it. If I offered you Tide for $5 for a 30 oz bottle, and a random store generic for $5, which would you buy? Tide? because they advertise? Because there is a car that drives around a track a few thousand times a week with \"Tide\" on it's hood? Because of it's \"Super stain fighting POWER!!!!\" Boy what a coincidence, THAT'S what Tide says in the commercial. The happy mom that gets the grass stains out in a single load so she has more time to sip tea and read \"Martha\" and shop at K-Mart. It's America, we're all stupid and driven to brand names in the end for prestige. Verizon is exploiting something called suggestion. At&t has a valid argument, if you have any sense of marketing at all.

Also, might wanna check an iPhone's early termination fee vs. that super cool blackberry the guy from \"The Office\" (way to sully Jim Halbert's good name Verizon, with such a crappy phone) sold for you... Still $175 for arguably the most useful phone on the market, $350 for a POS outdated blackberry. (They changed a week or so ago.)

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