Apparently, AT&T is quite concerned that less technically savvy potential customers will look at the maps and think AT&T doesn't work in Montana or something.
Verizon has already changed the commercial to include a disclaimer that voice and data are still available in the white space on AT&T's map, and have removed a reference to AT&T customers being "out of touch." This, however, was not enough for AT&T.
From their lawsuit:
By continuing to use a "3G" coverage map in its advertisements, Verizon is still conveying the message that AT&T has no coverage in the white or blank space included in the map, and thus AT&T customers cannot use their phones in large portions of the United States.
You can read the lawsuit here.
AT&T sues Verizon over 'there's a map for that' ads [Engadget]
]]>(Reposting as I accidentally made it a reply to someone else's comment.)
So I read through here, and people complain about not having signal, then want 3G signal instead. Do you realize that the frequencies that 3G data and voice operate on do not penetrate as well into houses/structures as 2G signal. At&t issued a statement some time back stating they had finished modifying all their towers with 3G capable systems, then a few months later, after the release, said in order to give maximum value to their customers, were going to upgrade all current 3G systems to different frequencies to better penetrate buildings.
So, notice the feller on the 'map for that' commercial, not once, is inside? Notice he is playing a game through most of the commercial? Then watching a ideo of a motorcycle? (Wow cool, I'm glad I have my motorcycle spreadsheet to work on since I am a high-priced consultant!) Notice the 'guy with at&t' that walks by him is not using his phone at all, and even shakes his head as if it's useless, and has NO service? Say what you will about at&t's coverage. For every 100 Verizon customer's, close to half will say it sucks, and the others will rave when asked. Same for at&t. This ad, in more subtle ways, is suggesting that at&t doesn't work at all, period, unless you are in the blue areas on the map. Whereas there is a great many at&t customer's like myself that will say they never have a problem. (1-3 dropped calls a month in my area, in almost rural Iowa, I have consistent 3G coverage, and Verizon and all other carriers here stink. At&t is the only one that BOTHERED to build towers out here at all.) It's body language. They're suggesting at&t has no service where there is Verizon service ever, and that Verizon is everywhere, whereas at&t is nowhere. Check the seemless transition from at&t customer shaking his head in dismay at his phone to the map comparison that says 5x 3G COVERAGE. (No coverage on shaky head guy? Can't tell. Never get to see the phone that says 'edge' instead of 3G or no signal at all.)
How many of the guys responding to this video once bought Axe body spray, after the first commercial with the guy and girl in the elevator? Who can say they haven't tried it based off of later advertisements that are pretty mucht he same thing in other packages? I'd say a minority. It isn't sex that is selling the product, it is body language, and suggestion, and Americans are VERY subject to it. If I offered you Tide for $5 for a 30 oz bottle, and a random store generic for $5, which would you buy? Tide? because they advertise? Because there is a car that drives around a track a few thousand times a week with "Tide" on it's hood? Because of it's "Super stain fighting POWER!!!!" Boy what a coincidence, THAT'S what Tide says in the commercial. The happy mom that gets the grass stains out in a single load so she has more time to sip tea and read "Martha" and shop at K-Mart. It's America, we're all stupid and driven to brand names in the end for prestige. Verizon is exploiting something called suggestion. At&t has a valid argument, if you have any sense of marketing at all.
Also, might wanna check an iPhone's early termination fee vs. that super cool blackberry the guy from "The Office" (way to sully Jim Halbert's good name Verizon, with such a crappy phone) sold for you... Still $175 for arguably the most useful phone on the market, $350 for a POS outdated blackberry. (They changed a week or so ago.)
]]>So I read through here, and people complain about not having signal, then want 3G signal instead. Do you realize that the frequencies that 3G data and voice operate on do not penetrate as well into houses/structures as 2G signal. At&t issued a statement some time back stating they had finished modifying all their towers with 3G capable systems, then a few months later, after the release, said in order to give maximum value to their customers, were going to upgrade all current 3G systems to different frequencies to better penetrate buildings.
So, notive the feller on the 'map for that' commercial, not once, is inside? Notive he is playing a game through most of the commercial? Then watching a ideo of a motorcycle? (Wow cool, I'm glad I have my motorcycle spreadsheet to work on since I am a high-priced consultant!) Notice the 'guy with at&t' that walks by him is not using his phone at all, and even shakes his head as if it's useless, and has NO service? Say what you will about at&t's coverage. For every 100 Verizon customer's, close to half will say it sucks, and the others will rave when asked. Same for at&t. This add, in more subtle ways, is suggesting that at&t doesn't work at all, period, unless you are in the blue areas on the map. It's body language.
How many of the guys respondign to this video once bought Axe body spray, after the first commercial with the guy and girl in the elevator? Who can say they haven't tried it off of later advertisements that are pretty mucht he same thing in other packages? It isn't sex that is selling the product, it is body language,a nd suggestion, and Americans are VERY subject to it. If I offered you Tide for $5 for a 30 oz bottle, and a random store generic for $5, which would you buy? Tide? because they advertise? Because there is a car that drives around a track a few thousand times a week with "Tide" on it's hood? Because of it's "Super stain fighting POWER!!!!" Boy what a coincidence, THAT'S what Tide says in the commercial. The happy mom that gets the grass stains out in a single load so she has more time to sip tea and read "Martha" and shop at K-Mart. It's America, we're all stupid and driven to brand names in the end for prestige. Verizon is exploiting something called suggestion. At&t has a valid argument, if you have any sense of marketing at all.
Also, might wanna check an iPhone's early termination fee vs. that super cool blackberry the guy from "The Office" (way to sully Jim Halbert's good name Verizon, with such a crappy phone) sold for you... Still $175 for arguably the most useful phone on the market, $350 for a POS outdated blackberry. (They changed a week or so ago.)
]]>So verizon is not even comparing apples to apples. How nice of them. I wonder if there is a map for that!
]]>Having been a customer of both networks, I can say that, at least in my area, Verizon's coverage is more reliable and AT&T's generally bites. Most people I know (and this is not an exaggeration) on the AT&T network are there for one reason: the shiny iPhone. They admit to hating AT&T, but are there for that silly phone. Perhaps Verizon should start advertising about that....
]]>@cc82: Add the Blackberry Tour to that as well. Shocked the shiat out of me when my company replaced my beloved Alltel Blackberry 8830 with a Verizon Tour. Even the GPS works without paying Verizon an extra $9/mo.
]]>@gStein_has joined the star bandwagon: Dial *228 on your phone and update the roaming list. This will update the PRL (tower list).
]]>@Al Swearengen: I think it's funny that many AT&T stores in Florida have cell repeater sites in them. 5 bars inside the store, 1-2 bars as soon as you walk out the front door. One of the reps even showed me the repeater.
]]>@PermanentStar: I know Wintergreen, VA has 3G. I'm not saying everything west of C-ville has it. Just that C-ville does and that other places west of here do. The map only shows the I-95 corridor and areas east of there. That's clearly incorrect. That's all.
]]>I have used them both all over my state and I can tell you that Verizon is definitely far superior to AT&T in coverage and call quality.
]]>@SJActress: AT&T and T-Mobile use the same network. The coverage is great for most parts of the country, and it uses globally standard frequencies so you're Ok to travel internationally. They were still 2nd place before the iPhone even came out, so no, that's not the sole reason why.
]]>The map does say "3G COVERAGE" on it. Not sure if AT&T can win this one, but I am sure it's doing heavy damage to them.
That said, while I am no fan of either company, my friends on AT&T are always complaining about coverage, dropped calls, problems using the web on their iPhones, etc.
I think Verizon has touched on a common AT&T complaint and AT&T doesn't like it. That is the bottom line.
]]>The ONLY reason that "more customers get smartphones from AT&T than anywhere" can be summarized in one word: iPhone.
Without the iPhone, AT&T wouldn't have nearly the amount of smartphone users.
]]>@temporaryerror: I used to have a lot of trouble with my phone at my house (in rural VA) but I called Verizon, got on a new plan with a new prl (preferred roaming list, for those who don't know, it just tells your phone what towers to look for in what order) and a new phone, and now I'm good to go. They have a return period if it doesn't work for equipment...might be worth a shot.
]]>@Kishi: I thought the commercial was kind of amusing considering the main complaint I hear about AT&T's coverage, especially anecdotal evidence.
]]>@Cogito Ergo Bibo: Hmm, that's odd, b/c I also live in VA (live not too far West of Charlottesville), and one of my friends is an AT&T rep who said they are bringing 3G coverage to test markets west of Charlottesville (Waynesboro/Harrisonburg/I-81), not that they had 3G coverage already. (Also their coverage map on their website shows that they don't have 3G coverage, though they do have data coverage west of Charlottesville) Not drying to be a douche bag, just not sure of your sources.
]]>The only reason that AT&T's 3G network and call quality sucks is because they don;t give a damn about their customers. It certainly isn't because they don;t have the resources to fix it.
Rot and burn you greedy bastards.
]]>Not as complete as the map in the ad but still a lot better than AT&T's.
]]>But i had no confusion that they were relating to 3g coverage and not regular voice and email coverage. verizon says it has the largest 3g network along with sprint since they use the same network. No confusion here
]]>@bonzombiekitty:
That is funny my girlfriend has Verizon and when we travel cross country ATT never looses a signal while verizon does.
Verizon never works in basements either.
]]>@Logan26:
Go to the chicago area or any where from Chicago to New Orleans or anywhere from Kansas to Miami.
GSM and ATT has way better coverage than verizon across the country. My girlfriend has Verizon and their coverage is weak everyone except big cities. They do not even have major highways completely covered like ATT does.
]]>@AppleAlex:
No you did not check att website or the GSM coverage maps or the att towers site. If you did you would know that ATT has a lot of coverage in ND.
[www.wireless.att.com]
[www.atttowers.com]
[www.coveragemaps.com]
@XianZomby: Actually, they can show you a map showing that there is more ATT 3G available than depicted. ATT rolled out 3G in areas in white in Virginia months ago. In Charlottesville, we have certainly had that service since then. It's not on the map Verizon depicts. Nor are the other areas even further west from us where 3G was also rolled out at that time. The Verizon map only shows coverage along the I-95 corridor and east of there. Not accurate. Another poster upthread stated that the coverage for Tennessee was underrepresented as well.
Not that I'm thrilled with ATT. I'm thinking of jumping to Verizon and snagging an Android phone. But ATT still has a point.
]]>@matt1978: Same thing in Virginia. We have ATT 3G in Charlottesville, rolled out months ago. Other places well west of the blue on the ATT map received 3G in Virginia at the same time. So not only is Verizon comparing apples to oranges, they don't even have the oranges depicted accurately.
Very deceptive.
]]>"They treated Sam like dog shit when he had a problem. We won't."
Whether true or not, making it the focal point it should be as a competitive advantage gives consumers more leverage and could actually become a metric for improving the organizations.
]]>Yes, the maps say what Verizon wants them to say, and conveniently leave out some facts. But they don't claim otherwise and the facts that are depicted are accurate. So AT&T decides the best way to get at them is a LAWSUIT?
Preposterous. And one more example of what happens when people try to resist change.
Jeff Yablon
President & CEO
[answerguy.com]
Answer Guy and Virtual VIP Computer Support, Business Change Coaching and Virtual Assistant Services
Guess who sounds like a whiny, little b****?
]]>Do you watch the local news here? Ever? It's been a big story for weeks.
I've had an AT&T blackberry in the DC area for about 5 years. I really don't have the same problems. Only thing I agree with is that the monthly bills are way too high.
]]>Tribalism with cell phones. Fun! My phone company is better than yours! No it's not! Yes it is! No it's not! Shut it already.
]]>@Kishi: The apps you speak of I think were for VOIP and I beleive they worked on a jailbroke IPod Touch which didn't have the phone enabled. So it's really not that funny.
]]>You need the data cable, that's all. Then, go find an open source program called Bitpim. You can cut any mp3 down, in the program, decide on the quality (bits, stereo/mono volume)then it'll convert it, and have it ready for upload. I've got a bunch of UK TV themes from the 80s (crystal maze, treasure hunt, interceptor, The Professionals [70s]) and some music clips (the start of Living on my Own, the loud non-singing bit in the middle of Extreme's play with me) for alarms. Wife has the Dr Who theme for her ringtone for when I call.
very easy.
I also use bitpim to back up all my SMS messages
]]>If I owned a mega-company, I would convince you that the white portions were filled with candy goodness.
And that 3G causes cancer.
Now do you want 3G? Do you!?
]]>I can see a non-tech-savvy person looking at the map and making the wrong assumption. My mom is the type who would because she has zero concept about anything technological. She's put DVDs in the CD player (they're both small shiny disks, right?) and used to worry that by using the CD-ROM drive to play CDs, you'd break it from overuse.
This would confuse her :(
]]>AT&T's 3G map coverage I can say is very accurate since all I had was their slower service for the 2 years I had service with them in the company.
]]>Of course it might just be different for different areas of the country, or I'm a statistical outlier. But in terms of voice coverage, I don't feel any reason to switch off of Verizon. Since I'm only slightly tempted to start using data on my phone, I'm not looking too much into ATT. And that's coming from a person who's job relies on AT&T.
]]>(Before the Apple fan boys get their panties tied up in a knot please note that I am simply making a point. I do not think that either AT&T or MS should file for such lawsuits let alone win them.)
]]>@Duke_Newcombe sees what you did there...: When I was in college, I had AT&T cell service on their shitty, shitty satellite system. Long story short, I got incredibly spotty cell service. It didn't work AT ALL in my dorm room--I had a giant fight with then boyfriend Ruthless about the fact that he came to see me, called me, and I ignored his call (because it didn't ring). I was alerted to the fact that I had gotten a call, oh, an hour after he had left. I went to the middle of the quad, as far as I could get from every building, and called AT&T's customer service (after reconciling with now-Mr. Ruthless). I was complaining about my lack of cell service. They told me to call back using a land line because they could barely understand me. Blargh! Eventually they promised to send me a new phone (I think I might have even agreed to pay with it, whatever, their cell phone was messing up my relationship). Four weeks later, I still didn't have a new phone...they tried telling me that I had signed for it (nope) that they'd sent it, would sent it again, etc. Eventually, a CSR was straight with me and told me that it was on backorder, and would be another 6 weeks minimum before they had any. I broke my service then and there, and signed up with Verizon. And my relationship recovered.
]]>Fight for your stupid people!
]]>Is it splitting hairs? Probably, but I also bet that Verizon really has no problem being a bit misleading.
]]>And yes, there are plenty of areas in the white space where AT&T offers no coverage at all.
Personally, I would have more of an issue with the "5X More" claim. Is it really "5X More", or "5X as much"? There's a difference, and it could be a legal sticking point.
]]>@lesbiansayswhat: It's AT&T... did you really have to ask?
]]>@gStein_has joined the star bandwagon: We are on the edge of service, too. Look at their coverage map online, says we are within signal but it's the ADIRONDACKS....
I have to walk out on the porch to barely get 1 bar, out to the road to have 1-2 bars. None in the house.
]]>@mrsam: My motorola phone, I make Mp3 ringtones right here on my computer and send them to my phone with no problems. My old samsung a930 of course, was disabled from accepting ringtones that way which sucked ass.
I like Verizon, honestly. Can't say they are the best carrier, but they work well for my uses. Just wish their prices weren't so high.
]]>AT&T is concerned about "less technically savvy potential customers"?
AT&T is dependent upon customers' ignorance. How else would they get people to sign for idiotic two year contracts?
]]>They show 3g here, and Verizon isn't 3g. I think if At&t wants to win, it would be easy to show by going to some of these places that Verizon say's they are 3g but are not to win.
It's all a bunch of marketing goop anyway.
@cc82: This, the most they've done to their latest smartphones is change the wallpaper/theme. And yes, Droid is a "Google Experience" device, meaning that the UI and much of the feature set can't be altered by any carrier or phone maker.
]]>I know its hideously impractical, but an impartial third-party company with updated coverage info on all the carriers would put these issues to rest.And we could judge carriers based on 'honest' coverage info, because from personal experience I've had no signal in an area the map says is perfectly covered.
]]>I was watching the offending commercial this morning and was thinking it was inaccurate...
]]>News flash for ya pal. I've been with AT&T for the last 6 years and their damn service sucks to all high heaven. My current phone is a GSM phone. I live in the greater Baltiore/Washington DC metro areas and signal and reception is spoty at best. Take a clover leaf interchange lose single, go into a single story home, lose signal. AT&T coverage sucks so it is very unlikely Verizon is lieing in their commericial.
]]>Every time I think about switching carriers, it always seems like one of my friends starts having coverage issues, and I stay put.
]]>I wish both Verizon and AT&T would spend their money on reducing prices or improving service instead of on these idiotic lawsuits.
We used to use Nextel (now Sprint) because we got very good Motorola phones with walkie talkie capabilities and they would work world wide. They'd partner with Vodafone, Orange, BT, DT, FT and you would be able to call from anywhere in Europe. The only problem was that the phones didn't work in large parts of the United States, including most of Texas, all of Oklahoma, Oregon, Florida, etc. Since we spent around 80% of our time in the US, this didn't work out too well and some of us began carrying our personal Verizon phones whenever we traveled. The company finally figured out that it didn't make a lot of sense to reimburse us for our personal phones and also pay for a company phone so Nextel was dropped.
]]>I live in Sioux Falls, SD and I have both an iPhone and a BlackBerry Tour; neither is 3G in any part of the state. But I will say, when I travel across the state, my Verizon (BlackBerry) phone has coverage the whole way, whereas my AT&T phone (iPhone) is very spotty.
]]>However, I have to take issue with the rest. I bought a Pantech Slate from AT&T, and while they didn't formally cripple any features, they added a bunch of crap to my phone, that I can't get rid of, that effectively cripples it. For instance, they load a bunch of pay apps, like My-Cast Weather, WikiMobile, yellowpages, and some stupid "mobile banking" app, that I can get free elsewhere. Except I can't, because their pay apps can't be deleted from the phone, so I don't have enough memory to load the free versions of these apps.
Then, let's talk about my contact list. In the middle of my "A's", I have the following:
- AT&T Account Balance
- AT&T Directory Assistance
- AT&T Music ID
- AT&T Refill Your Account
- AT&T Voice Dial
The account balance feature is available via dozens of other apps. Directory assistance? Sure, I need help dialing "411". Music ID? Great, except there's not enough room for music on my phone with all the un-deletable paid apps. Refill Your Account? Oh Come On, every single person who buys an AT&T phone buys minutes at a 7-11? And voice dial, what a friggin' joke. But can I delete these? No, they are permanent.
Same with the stupid games. Same with the templates. Same with the sample picture gallery. The list goes on an on.
AT&T does a fair job of crippling their phones.
]]>most cell customers don't even know what 3G is.
Verizon is also a little confused about what 3G is. What Verizon is describing as 3G service on their super-red map is CDMA (1x), which is actually closer to AT&T's EDGE network (2.5G). For the AT&T map they're using W-CDMA(HSPA+ 14.4mb/s). So they're comparing their 2G (or 2.5G) service to ATT 3.5G service area, in terms of speed. What they should be comparing themselves to is AT&T's EDGE coverage map. The slowest of AT&T's 3G service is faster than Verizons EVDO service.
]]>That lasted about ten days. Then we all went back to Verizon.
]]>Besides, at my mother in law's house AT&T is all that works, not Sprint or Verizon. Haven't tested t-mobile recently enough, they may or may not have a roaming agreement.
I used to have to use AMPS, but GSM started working around the time AMPS was finally laid to rest.
]]>@Al Swearengen: In DC, people spend a lot of time stuck in the tunnels of the DC Metro/subway. Up until mid last month, the only cellular service that worked in the tunnles and stations was Verizon -- becasue they had an exclusive contract to install antennas underground. So the end result is that while your trains is stuck in a tunnel underneath the Potomac, the Verizon customers could talk on their cell phones or text message, while the AT&T customers could read the on-board advertising from AT&T about how their service is in more places than anybody else.
]]>@mrsam: Verizon crippling phones. That's why I stay with AT&T and with GSM also. I liek the freedom of moving my SIM chip from handset to handset. I like being able to flash the software on my handset and debrand it (although that's probably a Sony Ericcson thing, not an AT&T thing) I like that AT&T offers me the subsidy unlock code at the end of my contract, so I can give my AT&T GSM phone to my mom, who can then use it on T-Mobile. I like that AT&T doesn't cripple features (not so much) on my phones, and then try to call it a convienience.
But I still think their network sucks.
]]>This sort of thing is in the same category as the other Consumerist stories you read about Monster Cable or Monster.com clogging the courts with lame trademark infringement suits. This is why the rhetoric around so-called tort reform is so screwed up. All of the "reforms" restrict the ability of individuals to pursue their grievances in court and do nothing to constrain the behavior of the large businesses responsible for filling court dockets with BS.
]]>Oh yeah. Didn't see this one coming...
]]>1g=talking
2/2.5g=texts and later adapted for SLOW web browsing(it was never meant to be used for that)
3g=good web browsing
You can't even get AT&T service in the AT&T building in chicago, so who is lying when they say they have service everywhere?
]]>It sucked back then, and looks like it still sucks now. Nothing's changed.
But Verizon isn't squeaky clean in my book either. They suck too, but for a different reason: their phones are all severely castrated. In Verizon-land, "Bluetooth" means "you can pair with a headset", and that's about it. On my T-mobile phone, I can upload and download pics and MP3s via bluetooth, pair the phone, etc. Can't do that with Verizon, and the latest phones my folks got from Verizon can't even use an MP3 ringtone, unless you pay those leaches a few bucks to buy one. Even though that damn phone has a micro-sd slot, and even though I can shove some .mp3 files on that, and even though the phone's dinky interface sees the MP3 files on the SD card, and can play in its crappy media player, there's just no way to select an MP3 file as a ringtone, using the phone's decrepit interface.
Screw both of them. A pox on both houses. I hope that they sue each other into bankruptcy.
Phew, just had to get this off my chest.
]]>That would be comparing a few little dots to no little dots.
]]>@AppleAlex:
ATT can't piggy back off a Verizon tower.
Verizon is CDMA and ATT is GSM.
Now ATT can rent space on the same tower for their equipment.
GSM has coverage all over ND and ATT has free roaming.
ATT even has some of their own towers in ND.
I love how people lie about coverage for some strange reason. [www.coveragemaps.com]
@consumed:
Actually, yes you will - the service in those areas are provided by roaming partners (generally), not Verizon, but a Verizon customer would get service there.
]]>This map reveals to me that AT&T, my current cellular company, has been using my monthly payments to them for the last seven years to build mansions for its executives instead of building network capability. This explains why I can barely get a signal while I'm at work, or when I go back home to visit my parents. It explains why the internet on my phone crawls along like dial-up. It explain why AT&T only recently got a signal in the DC subway system -- and then only in certain places. It explains while calls don't connect, or while they connect in only one direction.
This map reveals to me that my cell phone company sucks and maybe I should switch.
So AT&T, show me why this map isn't true. Show me your map that says you've got more 3G in more places -- instead of 1G or whatever the one that sucks is called. Don't be a whiner, don't SUE. They kicked sand in your face. Get up and kick Verizon's ass and show them, and me, why I should continue to be a customer and not switch over to them.
]]>@Duke_Newcombe sees what you did there...:
The problem is GSM has better coverage than CDMA. ATT with roaming beats verizon any day.
They might win this case since Verizon is comparing their Analog/digital/3g voice/data map with only ATTs 3g only map.
If they only compared 3g with 3g then they would have easily have gotten away with this.
]]>Yeah, apparently AT&T coverage sucks even when they supposedly have coverage. We're in Cali and a girl at work w/an iPhone can't even get reception in her own house/block, but if she walks down to the next block, she does. Go figure.
]]>Sounds about right to me.
]]>Come on, are we really to believe that all North and South Dakota are blanketed with Verizon 3G signals? I highly, highly doubt it. Verizon holds the licenses for the radio spectrum in these areas, but it's highly unlikely you'll get 3G everywhere you see red.
Very deceptive advertising.
]]>Happy to have cleared that up.
]]>