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jik

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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This really isn't news. All the credit card issuers reserve the right to refuse to authorize any charge for any reason.

It's in their best interest to accept all legitimate charges (after all, charges are how they make money!), so they are motivated not to reject charges for no reason. But at the same time, they need to be able to protect themselves against fraud, and sometimes fraud prevention measures are going to result in false positives. That's life.

4 replies

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@jik: I think this is in response to the many automatic rejections by poorly written computer programs. \"Sure, a human wouldn't have blocked this charge, but our system specs didn't have a user case for this scenario. But don't forget, our fine print allows this to happen. Our bad!\"

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67alecto

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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@jik: Yeah, I don't see the issue - credit card companies can prevent a charge from going through for whatever reason they want.

When I was working a hotel front desk, Amex were the cards I hated the most. I got \"Referral\" or an outright decline probably 50% of the time. It would always involve having to call Amex and listen to the customer negotiate with the rep about allowing the charge.

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Applekid

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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@jik: I can't help but think a card being used fraudulently isn't being used by someone who agreed to the card terms, so, does it even need to be said?

(\"YES\" says the Lawyer in Lawyertown...)

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November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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As jlk said, it's a false positive issue. This term means that you can't say \"you rejected my card because you thought it was fraud, but it wasn't fraud, so I'm suing you.\"

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pecan 3.14159265

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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\"The Twilight Sage: New Moon\" - damn hippies and their hippie movies.

4 replies

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Nidoking

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: I was thinking it sounded like a new Legend of Zelda game.

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November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265: I thought it smelled funny in here...

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robocop is bleeding

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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@pecan 3.14159265:
Bella: \"I know what you are. You're impossibly slow. And lazy. Your skin is pale white and spells like patchouli. Your eyes get all red and bleary sometimes and you speak like you're from the 60s. You're always eating or drinking something and you never go out in the sun.\"
Edward: \"Say it.\"
Bella: \"Hippie.\"

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ElizabethD

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@robocop is bleeding:

WIN.

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LadySiren is murdering her kids with HFCS and processed cheese

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@ElizabethD: Agreed, if for nothing more than the bit about patchouli. I suggest that's exactly what a sparkly vampire would smell like. +1.

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kaceetheconsumer

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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I suspect \"Important Legal Notice\" is really code for \"we don't expect you to read this but it's not our problem if any of this comes up later and you didn't pay attention.\"

Unless there was something more specific to his account that suggested they intended to randomly deny him, I doubt they will.

That being said, as someone who pays their bill off entirely every month (and actually prepays it so the bastards can't get me with delayed statements or when I've just been in surgery/had a baby/etc, gah), if they ever randomly denied me for no good reason, I'd stop using the card forever after that. Trust has to work both ways.

2 replies

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FatLynn

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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@kaceetheconsumer: \"Good reason\" is hard to define. My CC company declined a purchase I made for about $700 worth of clothing just because I don't typically shop that way.

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kaceetheconsumer

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@FatLynn: That wouldn't count as a good reason for me. I expect my credit card companies to flag odd purchases and call me to confirm them, but not deny them.

I meant good reason like I was maxed out, or tried to purchase with an old expiry date or incorrect extra-code-thingy. You know, actual valid reasons.

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carlos_the_dwarf

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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PEARL HARBOR!!!!!

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keepher

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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I did have a refusal once on the AMEX green card. Called AMEX and asked what was up. They were concerned that it was not me or my hubs making the purchase on the net. After the phone call I resubmitted my order and it went flying through. Aggravating? Yes. Understandable? Yes. But they were rapidly responsive so nor harm no foul.

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November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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I got the same thing on my AMEX blue, another interesting part of it was that they eliminated the charges for going over your limit but \"its still important to keep your balance under your limit\".

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jan_itor

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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Nothing particularly odd here. Just their way of saying that they don't guarantee that every transaction will go through. They could decline a transaction over fraud concerns, there might be system issues when the transaction is processed that causes it to decline, etc.

No ill intent, they're just providing full disclosure and giving themselves some legal cover.

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Cant_stop_the_rock

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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You might want to look up \"random\" in a dictionary. I don't think it means what you think it means.

3 replies

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: Actually, it might. At one point, Amex decided they would require random manual audits of preauthorizations (not even actual charges!) my company sent to them. End result: requests were left to languish until they timed out (and returned \"Deny\"). There was absolutely no pattern to the ones they decided to audit.

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rpm773

November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: Heh. Random misuse of the word \"random\" is a personal pet peeve of mine.

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November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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@rpm773: On no, now we're trapped in a logic loop *BANG* (head explodes)

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November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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I got the same stuff in my new Skymiles Amex card statement -one pages of charges (not using the card a whole lot) and four pages of new terms and conditions, including the same one mentioned above.

They've never before issued so many pages of changes all at once.

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November 18, 2009 4:52 PM

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I'd send them a letter that said \"By accepting this letter and maintaining my account, you hereby agree that I reserve the right to dismiss any charges as illegitimate and thus not be responsible for said charges as I feel necessary.\"

In other words, if you'll only approve transactions if you feel like it, I'll only pay the damn bill if I feel like it.

2 replies

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@Ursus Maritimus: They will just close the account. You're not worth the agro.

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@Ursus Maritimus: Yeah, let me know how that works out for you.

For starters, I'm guessing almost every credit card company has some sort of clause like that into their terms. It means what everyone else here says...if they suspect fraud they can deny the charge and you can't sue them if it wasn't fraud. Secondly, I somehow doubt you'd actually do this (have you done it with the credit cards you currently have (if any)?

I call BS.

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nstonep

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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Amex hasn't gotten angry at me for my 2:30am $3.54 crappy beer and crappy cigar runs...yet.

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sashazur

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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BFD. This is the reason I have more than one credit card - I always assume that once in a while, one of my cards could be denied for various reasons; reasons that have nothing to do with me being a deadbeat.

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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Part of this might be that they will block or require additional authorization for charges they think may be fraudulent. I bought something off eBay a while back and went to pay via paypal with my Amex, only to have it not go through. Used a Visa card and it worked fine. Shortly after I got calls and emails from Amex's fraud department asking if it was legit.

The email could be a cya for those kinds of things.

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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Clearly this means they won't let you shop at high-risk places like Walmart...:Rolleyes:

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amuro98

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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I remember a few years ago I went to Costco with my wife, and she used her Amex card. No problems. We then went to the gas pump outside to fill up the car. The charge was refused. So I called customer service and got \"Bob\" who sounded like Apu's brother. Through his broken English, \"Bob\" explained that Amex can reject any charge for no reason. I asked how did Amex expect anyone to use their card when it was basically a blind crap shoot as to whether Amex would let me use my account. At this point \"Bob\" got upset because he didn't know what crap shoot meant and transferred me to his manager.

At this point the conversation diverged from the refused charge to trying to explain that I was not making up words to tease the operators, and that yes, there really IS a game called Craps in the US - but \"Bob\" and \"Steven\" should have known that since they both swore to be in the US somewhere.

Meanwhile I tried the card again, and this time it worked. I never was able to find out why it was refused, or what could I do to prevent it from being refused in the future.

5 replies

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bbb111

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@amuro98: \"We then went to the gas pump outside to fill up the car. The charge was refused.\"
...
\"I tried the card again, and this time it worked.\"

Another possibility is that the automatic credit card system at the pump couldn't get through for authorization. The software for POS systems report a \"no answer\" as \"refused\" [probably so they can pass the blame to the credit card company.] I learned this after a gas station regularly refused one brand of card and not another. Each time I called the credit card company and found that there had been no authorization request. The clerk at the station admitted that they had a problem with that brand of card and all transactions were coming back as refused. The credit card manager at my Credit Union confirmed my \"no answer\"/\"refused\" theory.

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Blueskylaw

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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If they swore they are in the United States, or if they say I'm in California and you think they're lying, ask them what their ZIP code is and watch them squirm.

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SacraBos

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@amuro98: Should have told him it was like playing Fizbin.

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HawkWolf

November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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@amuro98: The transaction may have been rejected because it was too soon after the first one. I've run into that one before, usually just with caravanning with my family on vacations - trying to use someone's gas card a minute after they used it will often fail.

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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yeah, that's happened to me before. the explanation i was given is that you can't use the same card in the store and then immediately go and pump gas because it might be seen as a duplicate charge. i waited a minute and it was fine.

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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My card was declined once many years ago at a restaurant when I had never been late and had no balance.

Of course, this was the ONE time in my life that my server was a woman I used to work with at a nearby office. The server had to know me the one time my card was declined in error. Ugh!

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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I got this notice on my Costco Amex as well. I think there was another part where they can screw with my limit whenever I feel like it.

Oh well, I basically use this as only my gas and airline tickets card, and I pay it off immediately, so I expect to get cancelled for being a deadbeat in a few months anyway.

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November 18, 2009 4:53 PM

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i can maybe see them doing this with credit cards, but i wonder how it works with debit cards there since the money on there is actually the person's money.

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