I have an issue I'm hoping you or the fellow readers can help me out with.
My parents are getting into there elderly years and have become very easy marks for salesmen, financing and buying all sorts of stuff they don't want or need. I have tried to put a stop to it the best I can but nothing has worked, they are stubborn and wont listen to my pleas. My problem is now they have racked up debt greater then their social security can now pay. Being their son and one of the references they put on the credit applications, their creditors wont leave me alone. The worse offender is Conns (http://www.conns.com/) or who ever is there collection agency is.
They call my house, cell phone, office, and they have even started bothering my neighbors. I started out by politely telling them I have no control over my parents finances, and had they called me before they loaned the money I would have told them not to and to please stop contacting me. This has not helped, now the threats have started, and a few want me to pay. They are going to sue me, arrest me etc. I know their threats are B.S. but still the calls need to stop. This has got to be highly illegal, I'm not the borrower or even the co borrower. I'm simply their son they used as a reference.
I have started a log of all the activities but the numbers are blocked. I'm going to head down and file a police report but against who? I think I have 3-4 different ones bothering me but I can't tell as they us different tactics and names all the time for all I know its the same company.
Any advice??
If actual collection agencies are calling you, then they're breaking the law right from the beginning, because collection agencies aren't allowed to call a debtor's friends or family to attempt to collect the debt. You'll want to get the name of each agency that calls, and tell each one not to call you again and that they're in violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and that you are going to report them to your state's Attorney General's office if they do it again.
CreditInfoCenter.com suggests you try to get a witness to listen in on the coversation, or if it's legal in your state then record it. Here's a list of what the law is on a state-by-state basis.
If retailers are calling you, ask them to remove you as a reference on the account. Make it clear that you have no connection to it and cannot help them. You may want to have your parents call and remove you from the account, or call on their behalf so that you can provide account information.
However, if on any of these accounts you were listed as a co-signer, then yes, you are responsible for the debt. It sucks, but that's what co-signers are there for. You might want to ask for the documentation on each loan and review it to see what your role truly is, so that your credit isn't hurt and you're not surprised with a lawsuit later on.
You might also want to block unlisted numbers from going through to your phone. If you've confirmed that you're not liable for any of the debt, there's no reason you should ever need to talk to any of these collectors again.
And finally, if your parents can't pay the debt they owe, you need to talk to them about bankruptcy. If they refuse to consider that option and refuse to otherwise deal with the debt, at least take comfort in knowing that their now bad credit should act as a warning sign to other lenders to stay away.
And tell them to stop using you as a reference on purchases and loans.
(Photo: Rev Dan Catt)
]]>Similar circumstance. I haven't acted on it, would welcome advice:
Two weeks ago got a call from a "Van Ru" corp. that turned out to be a debt collector but told me they were calling about a "job reference" for my next-door neighbor. Neighbor is a nice person though had not asked me to be a reference. So first I was asked if I knew next door neighbor (yes) then what was neighbor's phone number? I thought that was a bit odd... wouldn't a job prospect know the prospect's phone number?
So I said I didn't know it (true) and they then said they were so-and-so at Van Ru and asked me to have neighbor call them.
Looked them up, a collection agency out of Florida. Haven't said a thing to neighbor, who I presume would be mortified to know that collection agency scuzzes have outed neighbor.
What do I do?
]]>@cranke: Ever heard of number spoofing?
]]>@Cool Cat: Thanks for the link to the survivor debt collector article- I knew it was out there.
]]>@rhobite: 2nded- there is a whole class of post death debt collectors who try and pyschologically make the family think they are responsible for debts that the dead person solely had.
As long as the debt was only in the deseased's name (with no cosigners) poof it is gone. Now that said, you do have to relinquish items that may have secured it such as for a car loan needs to have the car given back to the bank etc
]]>As far as I know, my cell number's been owned by me for about 8 years, so no one calls that directly ;)
]]>If the parents die and there is no estate, the creditors are just out of luck. If there is an estate, they could file a claim against the estate and let probate court determine which of your parents' property gets sold to satisfy the claim.
And some creditors may very well decide to not file a claim.
Or they'll just sucker the survivors into paying a debt they don't owe. [www.nytimes.com]
Disclaimer: IANAL
]]>If the house has a mortgage on it so that its equity is less than the exemption, the trustee cannot sell it.
(I am a bankruptcy attorney, but not your bankruptcy attorney - consult local counsel.)
]]>You can *NEVER* under any circumstances be held liable for another persons debt (unless you are married).
I would laugh at them over the phone, and tell them to send someone to arrest me if they are such tough guys.
]]>@the_wiggle: Who gives a shit if they have a family to feed? They are the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth, and they deserved, NAY, demand to be verbally abused to the fullest.
If they don't like it, they should quit.
]]>We had this problem when one of my uncles died suddenly a couple years ago. His sister (my aunt), who is the only one in my family with an financial savvy handled his affairs. He didn't have any savings or property so it was fairly easy. The creditors kept calling and mailing of course but they were told there was no money in the estate to pay them.
]]>I had Chrysler financial calling me about a relative's late car payments. I told them on the very first call that I didn't want to be called ever again, and the gal assured me they'd take my name off the account. I continued to get calls and every time I'd remind them that I had already asked to have my name off the account, and they'd claim to have "no record of my request". On the final call, I was pissed... I raised my voice, dropped an f-bomb, and told them I'd sue them for harrasment if they called me again. It wasn't pretty...but it worked.
]]>Then sue for $1000 per call. PROFIT!
...well, probably more like a moral victory, but still...
Wonder when they'll start asking references for sex if they can't get any from the debtor?
]]>@cmac: @ColoradoShark: I think Florida has a limit based on lot size (must be less than 2 or 3 acres or something), but not value.
]]>His only income is an SS disability check that barely covers essentials. Can debt collectors attach Social Security income?
]]>If you know who they are you can forward a caller ID to their own main number, their own fax number or the FCC... Try to get a CEO private cell phone for fun and lols.
Blackholing is also known as virtual ring - selected numbers calling wil just get a ring, ring, forever and perpetually.
There us also a screener for Unknown Callers, where they have to identify themselves, and you get to approve after hearing their recorded identification. Known people can just key in a pas number and get in direct. Valid callers WILL wait, telemarketers and other idiots opn tight outbound metrics will not bother.
It all depends, of course, on your VOIP provider. But you can transfer your current phone number, buy a dry line, and with cell phone covering power emergencies and the like, it's a solution that worked great for me - I barely get any spam calls these days, usually when I pick up without looking.
I use Primus, which isn't perfect but for $25 a month with all the features, including hardware, is great value.YMMV.
As for recording and tracking, look up the Phone Valet hardware/software solution. It takes messages on a computer, but it's FAR more than just that: I have a permanent record of all inbound and outbound calls made on my line for the past 6 years, including message archives and recorded conversations in your format of choice and all caller ID info, even for non-message missed inbound calls.
]]>@huadpe:
So, let's say I, in TN, call someone in MD; or let's say someone in MD calls me. If, for whatever reason, the suit were to proceed in MD, I would have to get the other's consent for me to record (even though my state says only one party consent is required). Is this correct?
Let's suppose a collector in MD (2 party) calls you in TN (1 party)
If the lawsuit is in MD, you would have needed 2 party consent. If the lawsuit is in TN, one party. If federal, 1 party.
So if you do a FDCPA suit, that's federal court, and the judge would allow 1 party consent.
]]>@Heartless: *57.
]]>Elderly abuse? So that is what deadbeats hide behind now?
]]>Your parents are wonderful deadbeats. Thanks, mom and dad.
]]>You can even say it in a way they think is a question about them recording you:
"I am recording for quality assurance purposes?"
"Yes"
Never fails.
Same thing with getting the address:
"If I had an address, I could send a payment if it was my debt"
Enough conditionals there to choke a mule.
]]>Every time they call, ask for a mailing address to send the payment. Then mail them the following certified mail return receipt requested.
Debt Collector's Name
Address
City, State Zip
Re: Account Number
Dear Debt Collector:
Pursuant to my rights under federal debt collection laws, I am requesting that you cease and desist communication with me, as well as my family and friends, in relation to this and all other alleged debts you claim I owe.
You are hereby notified that if you do not comply with this request, I will immediately file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and the [your state here] Attorney General's office. Civil and criminal claims will be pursued.
Sincerely,
Your Name
]]>@the_wiggle: I'm following the law too, right? I mean, this is all assuming that they follow the law as well, but if we're both following the law why would I be the jackass? They use means of legal harassment, I use means of legal harassment. I guess we can just all agree to be jackasses and this way they get to "feed their families".
Do you still work collections?
]]>@lalaland13: Debtors prison is sooooo 1800's ;)
You can NOT be jailed for debt ... for using fraud to get INTO debt yes ... but not for legitimate financial debt :)
]]>@StanTheManDean:
"Offer to pay them... and then mail a check for $0.01 and note the penny is payment in full. "
Oh dear GOD this is the SINGLE WORST THING YOU CAN DO!!!
Sending them ANY MONEY AT ALL, and "saying you will pay them" implies that you admit responsibility for their debt, and puts you on the hook for whichever debt you do this with .... DO NOT DO THIS. I cannot emphasize this enough!
]]>I was told by an attorney (but not one who specialized in telecom law) that BOTH parties had to be in a one-party state if you're not getting consent.
]]>@MikeM_inMD:
Hey, I've got a question about that. I've never recorded a call; but here it is incase.
I live in Tennessee. As far as I know, it's a one-party state (only one person, me, needs to consent). Let's say I call or someone calls me who is in a two-party state. Do I need to notify that person (I know they have to notify me)?
]]>I had a coworker who was being harrassed at work for a debt by another employee of the same corporation. After several calls of abuse, I came over to my worker's office.
I had the coworker put them on speakerphone and told them quite firmly that they were violating the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, that we have technology to identify them and if they call again, legal action will be taken.
No more calls.
]]>treat your parents like the children they have become.
]]>@Keliken: Not only that, but as to subsection 804, you can't contact them more than once about the debt, period, unless they give you permission or (basically) you think they've lied to you.
]]>@Keliken:
"I can call a reference for information, but not for the debt...... I can say its a personal business reason"
As a business owner, I receive your telephone calls all the time. You are trying to track down one of my employees, an ex-employee, the child of an employee. Maybe even a current employee.
You play games. "personal business reasons".
Yea, right. Because you play games, I can play games.
Let me give you a hint. Employees have a private telephone number they give to their friends, family and important contacts. Posing as their long lost best friend and calling the main switchboard number doesn't do you much good.
Another hint: Lying to the switchboard operator and then the HR dept, trying to verify employment doesn't do you much good. We only respond to written requests.... AFTER the employee authorizes us to respond to your request.
You get to play games and lie. We don't tell you squat and we will be damned if we will let you speak to an employee.
]]>Jay, I'm sure your parents are wonderful people, but you should check to see if they're truly putting you as just a reference or a co-signer (i.e. they're forging your signature). If they're forcing you into being a co-signer, you've got much bigger family and legal problems. Other have stated it, but I'll summarize:
1) Gather all the names, numbers, times of call, etc. you can. If they won't tell you, tell them the law requires it. If they still won't, trick them into giving information by stating that you need to know the information to send the debt. Don't ever give your finanical information.
2) If the state law allows, record the conversation. Get their permission if you need to. If they won't give it, do as some have suggested and record yourself, but repeat everything they say.
3) Start throwing out laws and allegations. Tell them their practices are illegal under the FDCPA and that you will be referring this matter to your local AG and a private attorney. Remind them that each violation costs them.
4) If they persist, go to your local AG.
My guess is that once you start asking to record the conversation and mentioning laws, they will stop, as its their cue that they're dealing someone who knows better. Good Luck!
]]>They always get your voicemail, and always get told to fuck off and hung up on.
]]>@frodolives35: Assuming you're not a cosigner, and the creditor has a valid address and/or phone number of the debtor, it is illegal for them to contact you about the debtor's debts, in any way, period. You can't do anything about your deadbeat stepdaughter paying her debts, but you do have legal rights under the FDCPA - if they contact you in violation of this act, contact your state's AG and consider getting a lawyer.
]]>@trujunglist: Perhaps breakbeat would be more effective? Or happy hardcore?
]]>@nakkypoo: Yeah, bad idea - while most non-written contracts tend to not be binding by the courts, it's best not to play with that fire and risk getting burned. Ask them straight up for a phone number, agent name, and company name, and once you have that simply request that the proof of debt be sent by mail to the address they have on file. Assuming it isn't yours (and they'll know it), you'll have their info and they'll likely have hung up. Google a bit if you have to in an effort to find out who these folks are, and then contact your state's Attorney General as contacting anyone who is not the debtor in an actual attempt to collect a debt (and not just skip-tracing to find the debtor) is highly illegal in all 50 states under the FDCPA.
]]>@tuxclam:
Money Order.
Penny taped to a sheet of paper.
]]>@chocobo: No offense, but the police aren't going to care about a debt collector making phone calls to you (harassing or otherwise), and unless you live in Pleasantville aren't very likely to be providing you a warm body to follow up on any such complaints. Now, most state Attorney Generals would LOVE to hear about this sort of thing and make a big public stink about it to get re-elected (and might even actually solve the problem, although that's likely to be a secondary concern), and honestly, that's fine and what the OP should have done in the first place.
]]>@Keliken: Remember, it's not about punishment, it's discipline.
]]>the economy sucks. people have to feed families. at times, that means being the collector.
as for that whole punching bag bit, best watch out for karma cuz it does come around one day.
]]>@humphrmi: WTF do you have stock in BofA or something?
]]>We rarely got a call for us but were averaging 20 calls a day from telemarketers & other people's bill collectors. We canceled that phone and it is so much quieter at home!
]]>Thanks so much for this, Consumerist. I can feel your pain, Jay. In my case, it was my mom taking out loans for my college that she is totally responsible for (I have others on me that I am currently paying off). Somehow they got my work number in college and called me on the weekend and flustered me and it took a while for me to realize this was not my debt. I had to eventually had to file a police report for harassment. It may not have done much good, and the cops told me since the collectors were in another state there wasn't much they could do except take the report. But at least I got something on the record.
They still send me threatening letters occasionally. I tear them up and throw them away. If they had any legal recourse, they would have sued me or arrested me a long time ago rather than just threatening me. They're so full of crap-I tried to tell them I was going to the police once many years ago and the girl on the line said "OH yeah well we've already talked to the police and they said you should be arrested!"
]]>@wcnghj: And don't forget to use the $1000 weapon for each violation, as would be outlined on the creditboards site.
]]>First, make sure whether or not you live in a one-party or two-party state if you're going to record the call. If you're in a one-party state, you don't need to say anything to the other person. If you're in a two person-state all you have to do is tell them that you're recording, if they continue to remain on the phone afterwards, that can be construed as them having given consent to record them.
]]>I actually kind of like having one or two collectors on my ass, it's been a while but I used to have a lot of fun seeing how long I could string them along on the phone.
"Mister Blah? Yes he's here, let me get him for you. It'll just be a moment"
5 minutes later
"Hi are you still there? He's on his way now... OK here he i-- Whoops! He just spilled his drink, let me set you down for a moment and I'll clean it up while he takes your call"
2 minutesw later
"OK sorry about that here he comes... OK handing you to him now"
5 minutes later
"Oh dear hold on someone came to the door, should just be a moment... what was your name again? Oh I see... and your last name? Hmmm... sir if you can't identify yourself I just wouldn't feel right taking your call... No I'm not him but I... I see... sir if you can't be polite I'm afraid he won't be taking your call"
fake talk in the background, sound slightly concerned that the person on the phone has poor manners
"yes I'm sorry but it's been decided that if you can't behave then he won't be taking your call. Perhaps another day sir"
That was always the best part of course, if they actually stayed on the line until the end. If I was in a poor mad, bad traffic etc I'd just shout verbal abuse, figuring they deserved it being in the job they were in. It's nice to have a punching bag whose feelings you don't have to care about.
]]>I feel like maybe the TelCos should lobby against these kinds of practices because I've heard of a bunch of people abandoning their phones since there's simply no other solution.
]]>As cold as this sounds but maybe you should change the locks on the doors. I have step-daughters I love more than I do life itself. So my comment doesn't come lightly. I pray the best for you and your family. Don't ever stop loving her no matter what course of action you are forced to take.
]]>@NancyNally: I was about to say. Thank you for your good point.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to do this for parents one day. They're already freewheeling spenders, and I'm afraid age will make it worse.
Also, they don't let their children know anything about their finances. I'm 36 and have no idea what their income might be.
]]>In order to clear your entire debt, you must give up the property and (possibly) get back a cash payment that equals the amount of your exemption less what you owe.
And you're still homeless, as I see it, in that case. But you still have a place to live with a rev.
]]>I have the same type problem with my 22 year old stepdaughter. She has never crossed a bridge she did not burn and we have debt collectors call us weekly.I have had car title people come to the house and tow her car off that she left here ( I guess to hide it ) and payday loan people even come to my house looking for her. We don't know what to do to stop it and it is very embarrassing in our small town. No matter what we say to her she tells us to mind her own business but people keep giving her credit and she keeps using us for a ref.
It sucks but at least noone has come to our work places.
Break the law. Be a bad-ass.
Go ahead. What can they do about it?
Record the telephone call. Tell them you are doing so and continue to record the call when they object.
Publish the recording any where you like.
The ONLY way they can file criminal charges against you is if they properly identify themselves to law enforcement.... and now you have their name etc.
Offer to pay them... and then mail a check for $0.01 and note the penny is payment in full. In order to pay them you would need to provide you with an address, account number etc. When they receive your dinky payment in full check you will be sure to hear from their people. With another set of names and addresses.
Get the idea? Make they reveal themselves to you in a way that is hard to deny.
In the mean time, feel free to be obnoxious, rude and downright vulgar to the caller. What are they going to do, file a police report because you asked their bra size?
]]>Legally, it does nothing because the OP either did or did not enter into a legal contract. If he did not, then putting up a notice changes nothing. If he did, he cannot get out of the contract by putting up a notice in the newspaper.
As for keeping the collection agencies away, why would they suddenly be bothered by some notice in a newspaper they probably do not read?
]]>@wcnghj: lol @ bbb
]]>On the other hand, if the OP's parents have retired to Florida, they have an unlimited bankruptcy homestead protection there.
]]>I'd just come up with some more inventive methods of telling these collection people to fuck off and die.
]]>Just straight up ask for their name and address.
]]>Putting the house at risk for people who have no self-control is not a wise solution. A roof over your head and food in the fridge is always a priority. This isn't getting out of debt - it is moving debt around and putting your home at risk. Doing a reverse mortgage at this point is like enabling an addict unless they intend to change their behavior.
]]>I am not responsible for any debts other than my own. Signed- you and your address
Not sure if that still works or not but I have heard over the past years it does.
]]>@humphrmi: In Florida, the laws are quite debtor friendly. If I recall correctly, your homesteaded house is protected, with no limit.
]]>Except that could be construed to be agreement to pay the debt. I wouldn't go that route.
]]>If you have a camcorder put it, all charged up, near the phone, hopefully with a speaker function, and push record as you very clearly say you are monitoring the call to protect everyones' interests and then politely tell them to obey the law and please stop calling you. If they say you can't record them also politely tell them to remember THEY called you not the other way around, insist on their names and any and all reference or account numbers they feel give them power to collect from you.
Not only will you look very good in court they stand a good chance of being charged with extortion.
In bankruptcy, their house is protected, why put it at risk?
]]>Let your states AG and the BBB know about this.
]]>To get around their lying about their company names and such, sometimes when companies give me crap about a roomate in the past, I claim to want to mail them a money order, or check, cause I don't have credit cards (and they believe that, since they chase after people that don't pay their bills) and they will give me an address to send it to. I can then tell my buddy exactly which companies violate the FDCA laws. (he had an ex wife that ran up lots of bills in his name, so he moved in with me)
]]>would this not stop all this?
]]>You can try searching for those phone numbers online and find the actual owners yourself. Once you know the companies calling you, you could also file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.
As for your parents, I would strongly recommend going to a bank (perhaps their bank) and explaining the situation. Perhaps there is some kind of "do not lend" marker they could to your parents credit report. If your parents continue to rack up a huge unpayable debt, they could potentially lose their home... you need to help protect them from themselves.
]]>They'll stop.
use creditboards.com for reference
]]>They will tell you what to do.
]]>