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Sarah Lawrence! What, what???
Shush our only claim to fame is Rahm Emanuel and JJ Abrams. We'll take what we can get!
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My alma mater has James Baker, Steve Jackson (of Steve Jackson Games), and, erm, Alberto Gonzales.
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@TinkishDelight: Hey, we at Hamilton have Tom Vilsack, Ezra Pound, and the guy who plays Toby on \"The Office.\" Being high on the highest tuition lists is the only way most people have heard of us. Well, and the human cloning lady.
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I wonder what happens to this kind of list when fees are added in.
At some schools, the mandatory fees are higher than tuition itself, precisely so that the school can claim to have \"not raised tuition,\" or \"kept tuition stable,\" etc..
Plus, is this for in-state or out-of-state..? Hurrrmmm...
@veg-o-matic: From Connecticut College's website
\"The comprehensive fee for 2009-10 is $51,115. It covers tuition and room and board as well as lab fees, studio fees and other course expenses. It also covers special programs such as our funded internships, some course-related travel, study away and even music lessons.\"
Cost of attendance to Fairfield University. If CC can have a full scope thing listed as tuition than perhaps it shouldn't be in the running based on just room & board considering the full scope of other colleges would take them out anyway.
I think all of those schools are private, so there is no instate/out of state difference.
Most private schools DON'T have mandatory \"fees\". Tuition, room and board (if used) and maybe a student activity fee or tech fee (if on campus).
Another downside to schools having required \"fees\" is that they aren't considered tuition for tax benefit purposes.
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@wrjohnston91283: Fees that are mandatory for all students are considered a qualified educational expense for tax purposes, including education credits and applicable deductions.
Fees that are optional, or only apply to students who enroll in certain classes (lab fees, books, etc) are not considered qualified educational expenses for tax purposes.
This distinction should be reflected on a student's annual 1098-T, which should include both tuition and mandatory fees.
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@wrjohnston91283: I'm a graduate student at Southern Methodist. The (undergrad) tuition is $15,600 for a semester, with $1980 worth of fees. Room is $4,230.00 and board is $2,215.00 (these are all one-semester numbers)--this puts us above $48K for a year's schooling. Wowzers, I'm glad I don't pay that much. We're not on the list. If you included our almost $4k per year in fees, we would be.
@dulcinea47: Yep, I know that. For some reason, I thought I had seen some public institutions on that list. Nevermind that bit then!
I dig the University of Phoenix ad right there on the left (for me at least). Excellent placement.
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@GreatGerm: Check your computer for adware. We are not serving U of Phoenix or any other kind of commercial advertising.
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@Ben Popken: I think GreatGerm means on the article itself, as I also see the University of Phoenix ad. Of course no ads on consumerist (which is always nice!)
You are, of course, correct mazzic1083. I love how Ben and Laura were so quick to tell me that something is wrong with my system instead of using some common sense as to what I meant. I guess it's not just the commenters that blame the OP.
@GreatGerm: You might have a problem with your browser--we don't run any ads for products other than Consumer Reports.
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Why is Dickinson College listed at #12 and #39.
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@VidaBlueBalls:
Dunno. I started my college career there. Then I ran out of money and went to the U of AZ.
I knew someone who wanted to go to Notre Dame to become a school teacher. O.o Being #70 on the list she would have been in debt for a very long time.
Although some of these colleges are expensive, one has to wonder... Since the fees are so high are the students going to these colleges going because they really want to go and are actually graduating on time.
Some of the cheaper universities tend to draw the students who go to party. Not to say this is always true, there are plenty of students who do very well at the cheaper institutions... but perhaps the 4 year graduation rate isn't as high.
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@idip: I work at Georgetown (# 7 on the list I think?) And BELIEVE ME, More kids come here to drink and party than I ever saw at my college (UMass)
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@idip: Honestly, a lot of teachers get tuition reimbursement or loan forgiveness after 5 years of teaching, particularly if it's in a high demand area such as math, science, and Special Education. History and English teachers are a dime-a-dozen (perhaps because that's something a lot of Am. Lit or Poli-sci majors turn to if other jobs don't come up, I don't know) so school systems have their pick of those teachers. Good math teachers, or special ed teachers other than reading specialists are much harder to find.
@idip: I go to a school that should be on this list. No one* graduates in four years because their mommies and daddies have lots of money** and even though it is hella expensive, they like to go and drink and not study a whole lot
*yes, of course, some people graduate in four years. But entirely too many don't for a $48k school
**there must be, like, six people here who aren't trust fund babies, so they are excused. But I have seen kids driving Lambos, so something is awry in the land of the Southern Methodists.
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@babyruthless: At the time, my private college had a 4.5 or 5 year maximum. If you didn't matriculate in that time frame, you were kicked out.
@babyruthless: There was an article last week about students in Boston having apartments with large flat screens, multiple phones, games and all sorts of fun necessities. My old school - Boston University (#45 with a bullet)- had a huge population of students that didn't think $50k was a lot.
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@idip: It's amazing how some of these schools cost, but it obviously also doesn't count scholarships and grants that a lot of people can apply for and have a good chance of getting.
If Notre Dame has a phenomenal teaching program and you think you can afford it, by all means, do it. You'll spend more money in the long run if you go to a cheaper school for less valuable education and find out later that you really could have used a better one.
Expensive doesn't always mean good, obviously, but universities like Sarah Lawrence, Yale, Notre Dame, NYU, etc. have a pedigree.
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@pecan 3.14159265: Notre Dame doesn't actually have a teaching program, although it has an M.Ed. program through the Alliance for Catholic Education that is inexpensive and very well respected.
(Eyebrows is a Domer, with the incriminating 'Backer pics to prove it!)
@pecan 3.14159265: This is true. In my first year, after grants and scholarships, my private college cost was $1,000 cheaper than the public university. Both are reputable schools.
@pecan 3.14159265: But in the end your still a teacher. I can't imagine even the highest teacher salary in the country being enough to pay back some of these more expensive schools tuition & costs.
One of or kids was looking at going to CIA (culinary inst. of America). It was going to cost $20k a year. Unless your that one person who is going to become wildly famous writing books, having a TV show and a string of prominent restaurants your probably going to be struggling to pay $80k plus back even as an exec chef somewhere.
@bohemian: Entry level teachers don't make high enough to pay back these amounts. But if you get your masters + years experience, you can make pretty good money (think 70k-80k). But if you take a teaching position just as a job to have while waiting to pop out kids and never return, it's an awful investment.
I had looked into the CIA and a culinary route; if you get into a program like that you often work at elite hotels/restaurants. They pay pretty well; but it's one of those positions that you either need to be young and have a huge history of moving up or you need a very good school. It's not worth it to have a small restaurant position and that degree. You'll be eaten alive through payments.
@bohemian: My college tuition was around $12,000 a semester, so $20,000 a year isn't a whole lot for top notch education.
Teachers get such a bad rap. They're overworked, underpaid, and no one goes into teaching for the money. This is obvious. Some people fall into it because they don't know what else to do, but a lot of teachers love what they do, and enjoy the work. The money is pithy, but my best professors do it because they love it.
And really top notch professors can make a pretty good amount. Not a ton of money, but enough to make a big dent in loans and such.
@idip:
I completely agree - I went to a public high school, and a $35,000 a year private college. The mindset difference between the students was amazing, especially after freshman year weeds out the few remaining students who don't want to try. I actually graduated in 3.5 years and saved a semester of tuition. (took a few summer courses but those are cheaper).
Not to say that cheaper school kids DON'T try.
Forgot to finish the last part - not to say that cheaper school student's DON'T try, but if you are paying close to $40,000 a year, my experience is that you have less of those who try to glide through with simply a passing grade.
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@wrjohnston91283: My experience was the opposite. Being a grad student at a public, urban school and then going to a private, urban school in another region of the country, I found that the public school kids worked hard. There was no sense of entitlement. There was often a question of why they had to learn certain material (I've gotten that at all 3 universities that I've taught at), but they worked. Then I moved to the private school, and there was the biggest sense of entitlement I've ever seen. I had kids threaten me, cry, whine, because they showed up to class, why didn't they get an A?
Now I'm at another school, and here, it's a mix. They work. They work hard, but they also work hard to just get the A, not perhaps to actually learn. I suspect there is a different monster behind this, but I won't go on a No Child Left Behind Tangent.
Aaaaand now I'm glad I live in a country where I don't have to fork out this much money for my degree AND get a great education....
That being said, I'm dreaming of going to the University of Chicago or Yale for my grad...
Depending on what discipline you want to get your graduate degree in, they may pay you to go there. I'm currently getting about $23,000/yr plus tuition waiver to get my Ph.D in chemistry (though not at Yale or U of C.)
@BabyFirefly: One of the many reasons I chose to study in China for a couple of years before returning to America to finish up. Tuition is cheap here. I pay US$3700 a school year in tuition, textbooks cost me about US$40 total (this school is big enough to be its own publisher and each department writes and uses its own textbooks except for the two engineering majors taught by University of Michigan faculty, so that makes books cheaper) for this semester, and the best part is it's pretty open to non-Chinese speakers; spend a year learning Chinese with them and then they put you through their entrance exam and into freshman year.
@BabyFirefly: No joke. My 4-year degree at one of the most prestigious universities in the world cost about the same as one year at a comparable school in the USA.
@Topcat: But someone paid for the costs. I went to the London School of Economics for a year and British students went free. But of course it was still paid for by taxes. Costs were just shifted from the user to many non-users.
@Topcat: Yup, I think the only advantage I would get going to a prestigious US school is the reputation of the school. At least where I live, if you have \"Harvard\" on your CV, people just about kiss your toes.
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Nobody pays rack rate at College (Unless you are a C student and rich). It would be interesting to see what the overall discount rates are for the colleges reflecting the 'real' cost of an average tuition for the year.
The average 4 year public discount rate is 15.7% in 2006. For privates it is 32.8%, but the more expensive the institution, the higher the discount rate usually.
Anyway.. the figures there are like MSRP pricing for cars. There are many factors why hardly anyone pays that price for a car and why few people pay the prices listed for college.
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@V-effekt: The private school I went to had many many foreign students, they don't get discounts do they?
I always thought they had to pay the $$ upfront since they weren't citizens.
Foreign students don't qualify for any sort of federal aid or funding. They don't necessarily have to pay everything up front, but most places make them file some sort of financial statement to convince them that they'll be able to pay for four years of education.
Remember: No one pays sticker price at college except people who are both rich and have weak academic backgrounds.
@Dr_Doofus: Um...what?!? News to me...sticker price; though to be fair, I graduated in 2.5 years and tested out of 30 credits but the net effect was the same.
I wouldn't say I had weak academics in high school nor sat. I was above the average for where I went (top 20) and the program I got into.
@Dr_Doofus: #28 Duke University here. And I'm afraid to say you pay every bit of that sticker price.
But hey, at least I have a job to go along with my mortgage payment sized loan bill.
@aikimann:
That's why I didn't go there. Went to Princeton instead. I was born in North Carolina but that loan package was totally ridiculous.
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@Dr_Doofus: Hmmm. I wonder how I missed out on that. Sticker price all the way through - not rich (but parents made too much for grants), 3.85 GPA in High School...
Dang it. I got ripped off! I want a refund!
@Coelacanth: I'm in an MA program. I applied to 7 programs and was offered substantial merit aid at 5 of them. The one I'm at now will probably cost me less for 3 years than just one year of my private undergrad.
Of course, my undergrad is on the top half of that list. And my brother's school is on the bottom half. My poor parents.
@Coelacanth: @lilyHaze: I dunno, my husband and I both got very generous packages at Duke Law, and I got further funding at Duke Divinity.
We still have student loans, but those paid primarily for food and lodging, not tuition.
@Coelacanth: Definitely not. There are very little grants/scholarship for grad schools whether it's income or merit-based. Most financial aid is through loans, right?
@ams199: It depends. Many honor students went to a school \"beneath\" them to get merit-based aid. I know that some decent colleges offered full scholarship to those who were National Merit Finalists.
@lilyHaze: Depends on the grad school. Professional schools generally don't have any aid, true. PhD track students, at least in the sciences, generally have all costs waived and get a bit of stipend to boot, based on fellowships and/or being an RA/TA.
@KernelM:
After financial aid, it ended up being cheaper for a friend of mine to get his JD at U of C over his well regarded state school as an in-state applicant.
@KernelM: I've never paid a dime. I'm in my fourth year of a Masters/PhD combined program. I get ~15k per year for 10-12 hours per week of work as a TA/tutor. Now I'm getting slightly more as an instructor.
My school probably should have been on this list, but instead of having tuition increases has crazy fees ($2k/semester). They have grad students teach classes. To kids paying $48k/year to attend. Parents, you should be incensed!
Similar deal here, ~23k plus tuition waiver as a TA/RA but they only have us babysit the students in lab sections for the most part instead of teaching actual classes.
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sweet my wife's school is there except she got an almost free ride. Go BU and your lack of a football team!
sadly all of her school debt is from law school, no matter where you go for that you're coming out with debt.
@Skankingmike: I would love to see the general across the board tuition costs for universities with and without football teams. It would be interesting to see if tuition is cheaper or more expensive at schools without football team.
@bohemian: Well...penn state has a football team and it's dirt cheap to go there in state. Maybe you mean private vs. public. Private school football teams are generally weak (ie GW). Hockey generally equal (BU, BC, MU, etc). I'd say these schools charge this way because of penis envy with better schools; they want to have better students but can't do it by raising the standards for admission.
They don't use the money to renovate the school btw. GW classrooms were constructed in the 70's (ish) when I went there.
@bohemian: You won't see a lot of correlation ... flagship publics virtually all have Division I football and the costs don't vary noticeably based on football (based on state legislature? yes.). Privates come in a few different situations -- you have private schools where the football is so big it can subsidize the academics; schools where football is cost-neutral; and schools where football is a cost center. Again, there's not a lost of correlation to tuition cost; there are greater correlations of tuition cost to quality, location (cost of land, cost of faculty salaries, etc.), and to student body composition (can parents pay?).
Many schools that don't play \"big\" football still have football teams (like the Ivies), typically cost-centers, but part of the whole \"educating the whole person\" thing. And \"bringing in alumni donations.\"
Another thing people often ignore is the value of the trademark -- sports can help increase the value of a school's trademark, and all that logowear can bring in significant money to the university. When you see a list of \"most valuable sports trademarks\" there are typically several colleges in the list along with the Cowboys and Yankees and whatnot.
@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!):
My alma mater wastes tons of money on a mediocre DI football team that few of the students particularly care about. If they got rid of it, or even dropped down to DIII, the university could cut tuition by $3000-5000 a head with no other downsides. Yet when the consultants told them this, they still decided to keep throwing money down that pit.
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Gawd US! Healthcare and education, could you screw us even more? I'm sending my kids to Europe.
@BinaryTB:
State school. I go to an \"Ivy State\" which is one of the best schools in the country for what I am doing- poli sci. I pay about $9,500.00 for Tuition and fees per year. I have a friend that goes to a small, private college and it costs her nearly 3 times to go to a department that isn't even ranked in the top 50.
And international schools not only can be MORE expensive, but can teach your child little. I don't recommend England for higher ed unless it is Oxbridge, LSE, Kings College, etc. You do not learn much (or at least I didn't in all of last year) based on the way the curriculum is designed. And yeah, with international fees at a crappy uni there, the cost can be WELL over $20,000.00 a year. And then add on REDICULOUS cost of living expenses if you are in England - $1200.00 for a flat, $300-$400.00 a month for food, $500.00 for a tube pass, $1,000.00 RT to get there and a $1000.00 to come home for Christmas, and private health insurance if you are like me and have discovered that the NHS will not treat your condition properly.
@BinaryTB: your kids could go to state school and learn just as much, if not more, well aside from MIT I guess.
your kids could go to state school and learn just as much, if not more, well aside from MIT I guess.
If they're willing to do the work and make the most out of their education. Too many kids are really too young, at 17-18, to really make use of their college experience beyond partying. I wish it was more common (and more feasible) for kids to wait a year or two. A year of bagging groceries and getting some of the party-animal out of their systems, and most kids would value a $25k per year education much more. As it is, much of the time it's a continuation of high school, where \"getting by\" and \"getting grades\" is more important than the learning that gets done.
@mmmsoap:
Couldn't agree more. Truth is, the first job I picked up out of college really didn't require a college degree to carry out. However, it did teach me about responsibility, and how satisfying it is to really work at something.
I'm in an accelerated MBA program right now (65 credits in 12 months!) but I'm getting far more out of these 12 months than I did screwing around college for 4 years. The difference is that the experience of having worked out there in the \"real world\" taught me the value of the opportunity in the education system. You can reap dramatic and tangible results from school if you commit to being the top of your class.
@mmmsoap: I took a few years before I went to college. I knew I wasn't ready to focus on college when I graduated. It took everything I had to drag myself to school every day the last semester of high school. I was bored out of my mind and only had one class I was taking that was required for graduation and enough credits to graduate. I had two study halls and a bunch of really pointless and uninteresting filler classes. It was so much wasted time.
When I did finally go to college I was ready to crack down and do it. It probably also helped that the job market completely sucked and I spent about half of that time off unemployed. When the unemployment office becomes a social event where you run into everyone you know the economy truly sucks.
@mmmsoap: I graduated with people who waited a year or two before starting college...and among them, half of them never actually started. I couldn't wait to go to college, but then again, I liked school and I wasn't into partying. The only shots I ever did were shots of espresso.
@The Porkchop Express: Yes, but from my understanding, state schools are considered mediocre and not respected...?
@BinaryTB: Careful with that. A lot of European unis are into that game now and have \"international student\" fees which are insane. I wanted to study in the University of Sydney, and it would've cost me about 26k as an international student.
@BabyFirefly: We found the same thing. We looked at universities out of the country and most had international student rates that were as much as US schools.
@bohemian: If you don't mind spending an extra year getting acquainted with the Chinese language China's a good place to look at. I'm currently studying here and they're pretty supportive of non-Chinese speakers. Naturally all classes are in Chinese but you can get extra Chinese lessons from them before you start (a year's worth or more depending on how quickly you learn- zero to HS-grad level isn't going to take less than that long to learn) or jump straight in if you know enough, like me.
@jamar0303: Just don't express opinions contrary to what the people paying for that college to be open want you to have.
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@BabyFirefly: States and their schools vary wildly, but in general a top-tier state school (usually, but not always, called \"University of [State]\") isn't going to get you sneered at anywhere, and people in the know are going to be open to degrees from many more places in the state structure.
You may have to put up with conversations about sports, though.
@BabyFirefly: The University of Virginia is a state school and is one of the top 14 law schools. It's extremely respected in a variety of fields.
State school really means that it receives government assistance in funding. Private schools don't take government funds, which is usually why they charge more.
@BabyFirefly: Nah, some of them have really great programs like U of Florida I think has a really good med program.
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US is slowly becoming a aristocracy.
@adent1066: You realize when our founding fathers wrote \"all men are created equal,\" they only meant white land owning men, right? I mean, these same dudes made the 3/5ths compromise.
@adent1066: Slowly? Becoming?
I think we are already there. Education and health care are reserved for the small amount of aristocratic people who have found a way to pillage the serious lack of regulation in banking and business. The rest of us are financing their lifestyles. I wish more people would wake up to this. Reforming health care, reforming the student loan system and the cost of college could revolutionize the country.
@mac-phisto: Jonny Carson, Colonel Sanders, Fritz Klein, Wilford Brimley.
I hope spelling doesn't count
@mac-phisto: Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and those two dudes who started Google - Sergey and what's his name.
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@adent1066: My family growing up was solidly middle class, and I went to one of the schools in the top third of this list.
Remember, most of these schools have a lot of financial need based grants available, and then add to that all the federally subsidized loans available.
@adent1066: This means nothing. The US has always had a privileged class. In the 1800s and early to mid 1900s it was mostly company owners, developers, and entrepreneurs. The Carnigie family, the Knights, the Vanderbilts, etc. Now we've just expanded it to include political families such as the Clintons, Bushes, etc. The children benefit from being part of the privileged family, and from having access to that heritage.
It's like that in other countries as well. The British Royal Family has significant advantages when it comes to luxuries, preferential treatment, etc.
@pecan 3.14159265: I think he was referring to economic aristocracy rather than some combination of old money and being connected. We have a new group of people who got very rich in the last decade through the very practices that are now making life suck for everyone else.
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wooooo I'm not on the list
Almost no one pays sicker price for school. My school just barely didn't make the list, but I'm paying less than a third of sticker (and slightly less than if I went to a state school). A more valid list would be one that shows the average financial aid package (scholarships + grants) subtracted from the cost of attendance.
@unpolloloco: And what of the middle class who has too much money to get Pell Grants and other aid, but too little to shell out 50k a year?
Oh right. 30 years worth of debt in private student loans.
@BabyFirefly: Scholarships are the answer. I get NO need-based aid (because I get too much merit-based). The trick is going to a school that is a rung down from the best possible school you could get into. Those schools typically make some pretty decent offers.
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@BabyFirefly: i'm thinking you're not quite familiar with how private schools work, moneywise. they advertise a cost - what we see in this graph - but very few students actually pay that.
as an example, my sister was going to attend a private school with the sticker price of $20,000/year. right off the bat, the school hooked her up with a \"scholarship\" that made it only $10,000/year. that's before financial aid & outside scholarships. & the only requirement was that she keep attending school there & maintain at least a 3.0.
public schools rarely have \"scholarship\" programs like this.
@BabyFirefly: One of my friends couldn't get any financial aid from the government for college because her parents made too much money - but oh yeah, she also has four siblings, so guess where the majority of the money went? It was a sad, sad thing. She struggled a lot of times, but things are better for her now. She's in a master's program.
@pecan 3.14159265: ...I started in a similar situation and ended up in China. I know I'm plugging it a lot here, but college tuition is really cheap here and just as good if you speak the language (most universities worth going to will provide a non-degree Chinese course to prepare for Chinese proficiency tests and for the entrance exam).
@pecan 3.14159265: It happened to me as well, it's why I mentioned it. I had the grades and the SAT scores and everything to get into an Ivy League, but my parents made \"too much\" money and my sister goes to a very very expensive elementary school, so my yearly tuition had to be cheaper than her 3rd grade tuition.
(Yes, I'm slightly bitter over it).
And cue the \"everyone should go to state school you get just as good an education for cheaper\" comments in 3, 2, 1...
@cc82: Four years at Boston University College Of Engineering showed me that calculus is calculus and physics is physics. The world famous professor who taught me was more interested in getting back to his research than the ad hoc teacher at smaller school who wanted to share his knowledge.
I will say that twenty years on a big name on my resume has opened a few doors.
Also, at #50, Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering everyone gets a scholarship equal to the cost of tuition (and some get more, depending on need). Sticker price =/ price paid.
@unpolloloco: Didn't Olin stop doing that recently? I know they still offer a lot of financial aid because they're still young, but I don't think it's full tuition any more.
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I see 3 schools from the Washington DC area in the top 10... go figure.
@pecan 3.14159265: What I meant to say was that since it's in Baltimore, I don't really count that as being part of the DC area. It's a good 40 miles.
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Oh yeah! That's my alma mater baby! Comin' in at #6. Yay Hop!
Christ I thought that place was pricey when I graduated from there in 2001. $50K!!! Hey kids, screw education take your $200K from 4 years of college and buy a friggin' Ferrari!
When I was there R&B was about $8K. I've been in Baltimore all my life and I still drive by campus every now and again. They have all these new fancy student dorms so I'd imagine that 8 years later R&B is probably closer to $12K, making tuition $40K. Gaht dayum!
I *almost* went to Sarah Lawrence in 1995, and then it was a mere $35,000. I was excepted but, not surprisingly, we couldn't afford it.
It went up TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS in 15 years??!! Holy crap! What the heck will people be paying another 10 years from now?
@geekgrrl77: My college used to be consistently ranked as one of the top values in a liberal arts education in the country. My freshman year, the cost of tuition, room, board, and fees was about $17k. The year after I graduated, the price was almost $30k. The cost nearly doubled in 5 years...
@secret_curse: Wow, what school did you go to? My school has been consistently ranked as a great value and acknowledged as a fine research institution. I had a partial merit scholarship, and my parents didn't pay more than $30k for the degree, including a year abroad in Spain.
I can see that where you went you apparently didn't learn much because the word is ACCEPTED, not excepted.
@AllanG54: Wow, that was really really polite :P
Why do people feel the need to be so rude on sites like this when someone has a typo?
@meg9: I'm condoning the first jerk-face comment, but that wasn't a typo. one 'c' in accepted is a typo...
@NeverLetMeDown: if we're picking nits, it's not a spelling mistake, it's simply using the wrong word. the two words are basically homonyms, but different. i hate that i'm correcting grammar on a message board. see what you started?
Yes! Mine used to be in the top ten, and dropped to below 20!!! YAY! I can afford Ramen noodles again!
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Kinda blows my friend's argument that she paid 64 grand a year to go to Belmont out of the water (I was always like...how come you paid 4x as much as I did...and we graduated at the same time?)
@Smashville_now with Monster Energy: Did she factor in the cost of books, fees, meals, etc.? It still wouldn't be 64k, but it wouldn't be cheap.
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Michigan didn't even make the list. Guess we were just bitching for all those years. Not that I'm complaining.
With the way things are going in my home state, I wouldn't be surprised to see my alma mater on this list in a few years. And it's a public university.
What?! Mine only made number 23!
We were number 9 only two or three years ago!
They should count first-year expenses in their ratings.
The average tuition in Canada by province;
Average undergraduate tuition
Newfoundland $2,619
Quebec $2,272
Manitoba $3,377
PEI $4,710
British Columbia $4,840
Saskatchewan $5,238
New Brunswick $5,479
Alberta $5,520
Nova Scotia $5,696
Ontario $5,951
What nobody ever tells you is that with the exception of a few privileged careers - Goldman Sachs, McKinsey Consulting, the Obama administration - nobody cares where you went to college once you turn about 25 years old. And nobody ever asks what was your GPA.
@johnfrombrooklyn: I would agree on the GPA, but not on where you got your diploma.
My experience is that people will infer a great deal about where you went to college. If you graduated from a very selective school people will assume, \"Well, if he went to Faber U. he must have something going on.\"
And no, I don't work for any of the organizations you mentioned.
@johnfrombrooklyn: I'd finesse that a little bit--as long as you didn't go to something like the University of Phoenix or another place with some notoriety they won't care.
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@johnfrombrooklyn: I've also found that most people stop caring whether or not you actually graduated.
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@tape: So true, I was forced to drop out my senior year, (way back in 98), and no one since has ever questioned whether I have a degree or not based on my resume or job application. I simply put in the dates 94-98. That is it.
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University of Michigan out of state is $36,500 for tuition alone, plus $12,500 for room+Board for a total of $49,000.
In state tuition/room+board is more along the lines of $25,000, so maybe that's why it didn't make the list?
Here is my expert opinion having gone to undergrad at a \"state school\", grad school at a \"private school\", and now as a professor at NYU - #2 on the most expensive schools. The top 20% of the student body at a state school like Wisconsin or Oklahoma State or University of Texas are as smart and as capable as the bottom 90% at an Ivy League school. There's absolutely no difference. It's the freshman year that is the kicker. Private expensive schools have a lot more hand-holding and put a lot of personal attention into their freshmen students. After all, they're counting on the $200,000 tuition over the next 4 years. At big public schools, there just aren't the resources so freshmen have to figure out a lot of stuff on their own. On one hand, I've noticed that some state university students have more independence and a better work ethic than private school students. They've had to get there \"on their own.\" On the other hand, a lot of freshmen at public schools are 17 and 18 and therefore stupid. So you get a lot of kids with high school 3.8 GPAs and great ACTs or SATs who flunk out their freshmen year due to booze, partying, tailgating, and a general lack of guidance. But if a student can make it his or her freshman year and do well; then generally they will get as good an education at a public school as anywhere else. They just have to seek it out and knock down a few more doors. At a private school more doors are opened for you, but then you're paying for the privilege.
@johnfrombrooklyn: I had the reverse experience: private college and public university for grad school. I haven't taught aside from assistantships during grad school.
On the one hand, I agree it's true that talented and motivated students will succeed anywhere. On the other, I have a hard time agreeing that, in general, someone who got an undergrad degree from a big state university got just as good an education as someone from a selective liberal arts college.
The big difference I have seen is that those who graduated from public colleges who are otherwise bright are a lot more likely to have glaring omissions in their general body of knowledge. I work in a field with many educational requirements and both highly technical and creative aspects. You would assume that most of the people I work with are, in general, \"educated.\" For example, and I'm still talking in gross generalizations, those who got degrees from public colleges cannot write. By cannot write, I mean they are unable to compose a short document that is logically structured and grammatically correct. Likewise, they have a lot of trouble reading technical literature well enough to apply it correctly. In contrast, among the people I went to school with everyone is highly literate, even the ones in science or engineering disciplines where it's not of primary importance.
@JiminyChristmas: For what it's worth, that's a common complaint for beginning lawyers; they can't write a grammatical document. And that's with the use of spell checkers. I'm talking about graduates of Ivy League law schools as well as others with equivalent reputations. There's no doubt that the younger lawyers are some of the brightest people I've ever met but they would be canned from any writing position at a newspaper.
@H3ion: A friend of mine makes a good academic living teaching lawyers (and not just beginning ones) and businesspeople how to write.
@floraposte: We tried that, bringing in an English professor for a once-a-week evening class and writing critique. Some of the people who most needed the remedial help couldn't find the time. It was like preaching to the choir. And you're right. It most definitely is not just beginning lawyers who need the help.
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I am just thankful I do not see Princeton in that list. My daughter is determined to get into Princeton and while it is a lofty goal, I just hope it stays reasonable in price.
Fortunately, Princeton is well known for its generous financial aid (as are most of the other Ivies).
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@Tawnie is NJ bound: PS: Hate to be a whiny penguin... but... I think you promised me a Wave invite :P
I spent the weekend obsessively checking my email :P
Woot. I went to #58. They musta upped the tuition a lot recently because it was more like $30k/year (with room and board) when I went there. I graduated three years ago.
Drexel is also a 5 year school for most students. At the same time, most students work full time half the year which can get the students several grand.
The chronically-faster-than-both-inflation-and-gdp-growth in tuition is clearly unsustainable, but I think the benefits of a list like this are easy to overstate.
These schools have wildly divergent financial aid policies. Some of these schools have almost no endowments, so tuition accounts for all the costs of attendance. At others, (Yale comes to mind), generous aid policies mean even students from families earning >$100k/year don't pay close to the full cost of attendance. Harvard didn't make this list, but there, no one whose parents earn less than $200k/year is asked to pay more than 10% of their income.
Also, the value of degrees from each of these schools, and the value of degrees in different fields from any one of these schools, means a lot more than the difference in the tuition you pay to attend them. It may make financial sense to attend a state school over a local private college, or if you want a major where is doesn't matter what school you went to. But an education at a top school in a lucrative or highly competitive field can more than make up for any difference in tuition, compared to a less expensive alternative.
You need to be smart, and look beyopnd the price tag.
Note: in practice this is almost impossible, since few students have any real idea what they will study or what care4er they will enter, even if they think they do.
Please stop hating our stupid souls for taking huge student debts for the chance to study with the offsprings of the world leaders. You all made your conscious choice to take it the easy way, to go to a cheap state school (or a crappy for-profit institution) then get your 9-5, pop out some kids and teach them nothing about living their dreams and taking risks.
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@denb: Wow, elitism at it's best. Guess that Purdue degree in Engineerigng is too far beneath you since it's a state school...except they rank 9th on this list.
[colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com]
A high cost does not equal a good education. Frankly, I'm quite happy with my Purdue education where I had professors who actually had worked in the real world and would use that knowledge in class.
@Red-headed bookworm: Hell yeah, I'm elitist and obnoxious just like most people commenting here are proud of being frugal and saving on college are not realizing the cost of those connections and being exposed to certain environments and are proud of themselves. Quality or cost of education has its share in determining the future success (public schools lead the quality of science education). However, a person's ambitions and the approach to taking risks plays a greater role in future success. That being said, a hard working person can succeed in any environment.
@denb: I hope you study something useful because you may be regretting going to Expensive Uni with a degree in Finnish studies.
@denb: Have you even read the thread? Tons of people are pointing out their schools on this list.
I went to private universities and I'm now working at a public one, and while I have no regrets about my path I think you're mistaken about the degree of advantage conferred. Have a look at Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers, where he notes the undergraduate institutions for Nobel winners, and notes that they're quite a varied lot. Going to a bad school is a problem, but the difference between going to a pretty good school and a top school? Not much once you get out of school.
@Red-headed bookworm: Crap, and if I could type it would look so much better. Engineering, not what I typed up there. We really need an edit button on this board.
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Wow. Brandeis has really slipped. We were top 10 twenty years ago, and now to be 81. It feels so... reasonable.
@donnie5: I'm sure some of them get jobs otherwise, I would think it wouldn't be around otherwise.
One of the guys I know did get a somewhat related job about 8 years after graduation. Of course he got that job by working at a company and slowly getting on the job training anyway, so he would have gotten it anyway I think. He was also one of those smart as hell, sorry pastor I mean heck, guys who was kind of wasting it at full sail
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@The Porkchop Express: LOL! No need to apologize. Hell is in the Bible.
I guess I should say, \"I am glad I did not get duped into going to Full Sail\"
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That's way more than I paid for...medical school.
It costs 51 grand to go to SKIDMORE? That's crazy talk.
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86th biznatches! WPI FTW!
Oh wait...
Color me unsurprised that Dook made the list. Down the road you can get the same degree for less than the price of one year there.
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Suddenly, 90k for a bachelor's degree from ITT Tech doesn't sound so bad. Already got a government internship with their help and refined my resume building and interviewing skills.
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My Alma Mater (University of Washington) - not even in the top 100.
The school my son wants to go to? #29.
Sigh.
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Most publicly funded \"special needs\" schools are around 100k, so these prices aren't that bad, though budget/students is probably close. I'm kind of disappointed that wealthy kids don't have $1 million/year colleges, but of course their parents are always cheap bastards.
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My alma mater made this list, but you can bet they won't be touting this 'achievement' like they do every year with their listing in US News and World Report's annual ratings of colleges.
No matter where they land on the US News list, they can always turn it into the best-ever PR. Missed the top 10 this year? Just say we made into the top 15 and make it sound like an elite group. One year after they dropped like a rock in the rankings, they claimed \"we're in the top 10 among similar colleges!\", never mind that they created their own subset list of 'similar colleges' so they could claim some sort of high ranking.
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I went to GWU (on a partial scholarship... or else I wouldn't have gone).
You would think with all that money on tuition you would have these amazing professors... but no. The money is spent (no kidding) on limos for the president of the school and random events. For example, while I was there, we once had a petting zoo in the quad for a week to help us with stress and an ice skating rink for 2 months just for fun.
I went to Full Sail about 5-6 years ago--the audio program. It was about 32K for one year, not included $600 a month I paid for a 1BR apt near by. Their placement department is pretty good. The school was alright--though by the time me and several classmates left we realized it was a business. I got my current job through Full Sail's placement dept, and I've been working here for about 4 years. I can't knock the school too much, though I'm sure it's changed so much since I've been there.
There are dozens of these \"most expensive college\" lists. Mith this crap economy, isn't it about time someone made a \"least expensive\" college list?
On the other hand, a cheap college list may have some really scary institutions on it. Any alums of University of Tobacco Spit?
GW...you're 3rd on the expensive list. That dog won't hunt monsignor!
Seriously...sarah lawrence and GW...academically you're below a state school so do a qoea (quality of education adjustment).
I remember going to school with this saudi who had 3 cars on campus. A blue ferrari 360, a red ferrari 360, and a dodge viper gtr with racing stripes and a roll cage. I guess a porsche would be too flashy.
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Bizarre that they didn't count fees because some fees vary or are optional, but they do count room and board, which also varies in price (by room size/type and meal plan) and is generally optional.
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Should I be happy or sad that 4 of the top 10 are in NY State? For some reason I feel sad.
Ah well, I paid barely any of that at a SUNY school and am doing what most men my age would kill to do. Ha.
Laura, as another Hamilton alumna, on one hand I'm sad that we didn't make top 10 again (as we have in the past few years, when I was attending [yay financial aid/endowments]), but at the same time, it's probably a good thing for future generations.
Then again, if you look at the numbers, the difference between #10-70 is only 2k. Which, on one hand is a lot of money, but on the other, it's a very small margin. All of the NESCACs are up there...
So glad that ye olde alma mater is only #81. I feared it would rank higher.
However, I do see a few schools my kid wants to apply to. (be afraid)
Try to convince a high school student, particularly in an affluent area, that a person can make a very nice living as an electrician, plumber, carpenter, etc. and not have to go to college except for the love of education. It doesn't seem to make sense to anyone. But with a $200,000 college expense, you have to wonder whether you're getting your money's worth. And that's just undergrad. Law school and medical school can equal that number in three years. I went to public undergrad on a scholarship and private law schools at full freight (albeit with a working fellowship my first year and a law firm clerkship my second and third years) and I came out with no debt. I don't see how anyone can come out with no debt today unless they have wealthy and generous parents. We've set up a 529 plan for our grandchildren. It's not even going to be close to covering the needed funds.
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Education is just like big weddings, fancy cars and designer handbags. You can pay $50,000 for any of those things or far less. As long as it is worth it to you, go for it.
Is it bad that I like to laugh at kids that go to these super expensive schools and get degrees in something like Education. Seriously? You went to NYU to become an elementary school teacher? You could have done that anywhere for a fraction of the price.
I went to #2. It was less then - as were all of these - but still expensive. About 1/3 was covered by scholarships, 1/3 loans, and 1/3 cash. That was fairly typical. Plus, living expenses are a big chunk of this, but (at the time) only a small portion of undergrads lived in the overpriced and overstuffed housing, and 40%+ were commuting.
All of that was just to say that this list is pretty meaningless without a breakdown or at least a number showing what the average student actually pays.
I managed to get back from the school more than what I paid for my undergrad during my doctoral program. (In case you're wondering where the money goes.)
Oh HAI # 28, the University of Chicago. I will never stop owing you money, will I?
Financial Aid can't be overlooked. I went to #5 Skidmore and came out with only $15K in student loan debt. It's a good idea to pick a college with a firm idea of the maxim amount of debt you/your kids are willing to endure for an education(I wouldn't go above $30K). And a tip for all you kids considering grad school, yes, you are almost garenteed that someone will offer you a full ride plus stipen in any of the life/physical sciences as long as you get the support of a faculty member during the admissions process.
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Is that for one year? Full Sail University is like $75,000 for two years.
@Tvhargon: I wouldn't exactly refer to Full Sail as a \"university\".
@Tvhargon: That's still not cheap.
@Tvhargon: Yes, that's for one year - tuition, room, and board.
What is Full Sail University? I've worked in higher ed for 15 years and never heard of them.
@Tvhargon: \"Here are the top 100 most expensive colleges by total cost for the 2009-2010 school year.\"