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I think some thrower just wants to tie a parachute to a guitar and drop it out of a plane?
I think some thrower just wants to tie a parachute to a guitar and drop it out of a plane?
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United is in the wrong here, as they lost the baggage.
However, I think their lost luggage liability limits how much they have to pay, and it appears they've already gone above that amount. And if your gear is that expensive, you need to get it insured as well. They can even offer it as an add-on services for expensive items (e.g. golf clubs, ski's, etc.)
But United, c'mon, at least pretend like your a real airline.
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@ARP: I'd agree with that. The average person is almost never traveling with $13,000 in expensive hobby equipment. This is what supplemental insurance is for.
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@SagarikaLumos: I would say that if they LOSE the luggage, then all bets are off. It's one thing if it gets damaged - baggage gets treated roughly, and it's just how it is. Losing it however is completely and utterly unacceptable.
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@ARP: They shouldn't be allowed to have liability limits w/r/t luggage. They are responsible for transporting your items and it is directly their fault if something happens to it. Maybe airlines will start hiring more trustworthy baggage handlers or create a better system for tracking luggage if they have to pay out high claims like this all the time.
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@squinko: IANAL and I could be very wrong about this, but I think the luggage-liability limits are mandated by law. To get it changed, the law would have to be changed ... again, AFAIK. If we can't get a passengers' \"bill of rights\" passed, what are the odds of that happening? Nil, I'd say.
@squinko: Especially since they make you pay for checked bags now. I wouldn't have a problem with them declaring liability limits if they weren't charging for it, but if they're going to take my money for it I expect better.
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@squinko: So ticket prices should be increased to a level such that the value of any conceivable item contained in checked luggage would be recoverable? Including a bag of gold bars? the Hope diamond? [other very valuable items?]
You could reasonably argue that the peg is too low and show be increased, but it's ridiculous to think that airlines should have insurance (or self-insure) such to a 100% (or even 99.9%) percentile rather than, say 99%, and let the remaining people with really valuable goods self-insure. And I say this as someone who has been out several thousand dollars for lost electronic equipment in the last couple of years (and learned my lesson).
The issue of whether baggage handlers are stealing is relatively logically separate.
@rb1971 - E39M5'er: also, you'd then have to not only show them the stuff before they take, but to document the cost of the items.
Anybody could say they had a mayan artifact or whatever in the bag.
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I would also suspect that unlimited liability would lead to a huge amount of fraud.
Umm, sure, my missing bags contained 43 Rolex watches and a Renouir. Now give me my money!
@ARP:
Getting it insured would be an irrelevant issue. This gear is most likely VERY specialized. Plus, what she does, can't imagine what the insurance would be.
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@amberlink: Insurance is pretty cheap. I pay about $80 a month to insure ~$10000 in gear, and the policy covers liability too.
@amberlink: A few points on that:
1) Specialized gear is insured all the time. You just need to assign the value of getting remade (even if custom).
2) I think you might be confusing insurance for her gear v. life/medical insurance for her activities. Insurance for her gear should be no problem. Medical/Life insurance would be a problem.
I would agree with others that United and the airline industry does need to raise the base limits for compensation as people are now often toting thousand of dollars in gear on a regular basis and not simply as a one-off situation. This is especially true when they charge for luggate. But it can't be unlimited or else it will become prohibitively expensive as United will need to assume the worst and charge more for transport. Or, they'll simply require you to produce a receipt and proof of loss for every single item in your bag.
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@amberlink: Well the insurance would be for her equipment, not her person. So it wouldn't be THAT expensive, right?
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\"Because United Loses Base Jumping Gear...\"
Nah, it just does not have the same ring to it...
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I'm sorry, but who in their right mind checks $12,000 worth of gear? It is very clear that you are not going to be reimbursed at anything near that level.
She should have shipped this via FedEx/UPS/USPS with the appropriate level of insurance attached.
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@FatLynn: Who in their right mind jumps off cliffs?
Regardless of whether a passenger is in their right mind, the airline agreed to handle their possessions (and likely charged the customer for that privilege). The airline should be liable for 100% of the damages for lost luggage and items damaged by their carelessness.
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@FatLynn: FedEX loses and destroys things all the time. Personally, I'd feel safest keeping it with me, even if I had to check it.
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@FatLynn: As far as I know, a lot of famous people check a lot of things.. if they're taking a regular airline anyway.
I'm sure a lot of photographers check gear that costs atleast that much.
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@Kimaroo - Fortified with Kittydus Purrularis: None of the photographers or videographers I work with ever check their gear, worries of theft or loss aside--they tend to be very fond of their particular cameras and lenses (not just the model/make).
What with airlines are charging for luggage these days, sometimes it *is* cheaper to FedEx it.
@Kimaroo - No Stars Upon Thars:
My wife was a figure skater, and she always had to send her skates via UPS/FedEx in advance of any competition. Only the careless would check them.
@Kimaroo - No Stars Upon Thars:
I always carry on my equipment. I don't trust the airlines, no matter who I'm flying, to handle my gear with care and to guarantee it gets to my destination. I'm the only one who can guarantee that.
It's NEVER checked - unless it's my tripod. That thing's too big to carry on.
@Kimaroo - No Stars Upon Thars:
And I'm sure they have their cameras insured--especially because lenses are pretty delicate. I always carry on my DSLR/exra lenses. Why she wouldn't just ship that stuff ahead via FedEx is beyond me.
@Kimaroo - No Stars Upon Thars:
Photogs will usually carry on anything of importance. Not only for loss, but for damage concerns too. The TSA people still occasionally give a little hassle, but they can't deny photographic equipment.
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United breaks guitars...and loses parachutes + rock climbing gear. Maybe a duet is in order? LOL
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Meanwhile, some United baggage handler is firing up his Ebay account to make a few postings.
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@theblackdog_HalloweenHaunting: Or craigslist has a for sale posting for \"A parachute and bunch of rope climbing stuff\".
I heard this morning that United lost Dave Carroll's bag when he flew them the other day. So, on top of a broken guitar he has lost luggage. Maybe it's time for United to stop flying the friendly skies and find some other business to screw up.
@AllanG54: And somehow the NYT managed to close comments on that story after only 8 people commented most of whom seemed to know nothing about the original story either...
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So is anyone aware of GPS tracking devices for luggage/valuables, sort of a LoJack for Luggage. It seems that for the right person, this might be a valuable investment.
@Rachacha:
GPS would be unlikely to work inside a suitcase, as it would rarely have a clear view of the sky.
@Rachacha: I really, really want to pack a hidden spy camera into my luggage when I check it to see who goes through my stuff. It would be awesome if she had video of the a-hole who took her gear.
@Rachacha: Or the photographer guy who supposedly checks an unloaded starter pistol (which does not require a gun license) with his high $ equipment which then requires special TSA handling...
@Kimaroo - No Stars Upon Thars: Skipper, Skipper, I'm getting stolen Skipper! Also, there's a lion in the lagoon!
Why are we blaming United so quickly. Do we have evidence that it wasn't the TSA folks that lifted her stuff? They do have a history of stealing people's stuff. They may have also broken it while playing around with it (playing around with people's personal effects is another activity).
I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was United, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the TSA.
@nbs2: Once I hand the luggage to the person behind the counter, it's the airline's job to make sure it gets to my destination along with me.
If something got stolen out of my bag, it wouldn't matter who actually did the stealing. My contract is with the airline, and so it's going to be the airline that's going to pay. If it was the TSA, let the airline go after them.
@nbs2: True, but according to them, their employees go through background checks! They wouldn't do that; it HAS to be the baggage handlers! The last few cases were all isolated; a few bad apples in a barrel full of good ones!
*gag*
Yeah, wouldn't put it past them. And I hope no one thinks I seriously follow the TSA with the lines of bull like I repeated above.
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Now I have Ziggy Stardust stuck in my head (not necessarily a bad thing), because every time I see \"United breaks guitars,\" I hear it in my head to the tune of \"Ziggy played guitar.\"
Does that happen to anyone else?
It seems to me like all the airlines have these problems, but even the worst will surprise you with the over and beyond stories as well. We had a small bag fall out of a larger carry on, and it contained a lot of important stuff. The plane had been on two more legs before we discovered it, but they found it, boxed it up, and checked it right back to our airport!
They have liability limits for a reason. They sell insurance, and you can buy insurance on your homeowners or renters policy for these things.
Mistakes happen, and you need to protect yourself.
In the future she should declare a weapon in her checked bag. all will arrive securely.
but seriously........ ship it next and everytime from now on.
Airlines lose luggage. This is not news.
famous rockclimber? i didn't know such a thing existed.
Again, lets refer anyone contemplating flying on United Airlines to the complaints website www.untied.com...
UA is always the bottom of my list of airlines to use with Southwest on the top. SW may not be fancy but they treat you like a human being and are honest and upfront about situations such as why a plane is delayed.
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It's like United lost a bet with the other airlines, and the stakes were it had to totally screw up everything for six months.
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This is why I pack an empty flare gun in my luggage. They still treat it as a firearm so if my stuff gets \"lost\" or it's been rifled through, then it's an insta-felony for the person who did it and the ATF and TSA have a field day looking for it. Sure it's an extra few minutes spent while checking in and picking up my luggage, but it's also a lot more peace of mind knowing I can put a lock of ANY type on there (not just the chintzy TSA-approved ones) and have serious legal woes for anyone involved with tampering with it.
@FooSchnickens - Forklift Dirver Extraordinaire: that sounds awesome...let me know how that works so I can pack a flare gun in with my bass flute next time I fly.
@FooSchnickens - Forklift Dirver Extraordinaire: I'm not familiar with the rules for firearms in checked baggage. Why does it become a felony if they lose it, and why can you put a regular lock on it? This sounds very interesting...
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@hydrargyrum: Watch this guy's video (at least the first 15 or 20 minutes of it - it's 52 minutes in total) and you'll see what he does to ensure that nothing goes missing.
[www.vimeo.com]
You will find more info from the him at [deviating.net]
I should give credit to \"Powerlurker\" since he provided it back in July in response to this story: [consumerist.com]
I've flown United regularly for 20 years, and not once have they lost my luggage.
However, particularly since the merger, it seems like every time I fly Northwest, there is some kind of problem. It's a crapshoot if my luggage will even make it on my plane if I'm flying Northwest.
So while United has been getting the most attention lately, I don't think United loses luggage any more frequently on average than the other majors do, including Southwest.
@RayonFog: The US Department of Transportation tracks mishandled luggage rates, and they report to the public every month.
Looking back over the past six months, Northwest has a much better rate than United, and Southwest is consistently better than United as well.
I read the report, and I don't see where either Northwest or Southwest are \"much better\" than United.
I observed 3 things in the report.
First, in the most recent report, the three mentioned airlines are ranked 7th, 8th and 9th (United is 9th). The claims per 1000 passengers are within 1 passenger of each other. Considering the range from best to worst is almost 6.5, I'd say United, Northwest and Southwest are essentially the same.
Second, between August 2008 and August 2009, United dramatically improved their mishandled baggage rates. Southwest got slightly better over that time and Northwest got slightly worse. The point is that these rates fluctuate. United has been trending better, while Northwest, who at one point was near the best, has been trending worse. I can only assume that has to do with Delta (see below).
Third, I know that Delta has already taken over baggage handling for NW at some US airports. Delta consistently has the worst rating of the majors. They are rated 14th in the most recent report and are always in the bottom third of all listed airlines. By your standard, I'd say that is much, much worse than United.
As a side note, in researching this further, I came across a blurb saying that Delta/NW handles Customer Service and baggage handling for Comair (makes sense, as Delta is Comair's parent). Comair is consistently ranked dead last. Could explain why NW is trending worse.
@tinycorkscrew: Holy smokes, that is a goldmine.
Observation: you only have to look at one of those reports for a minute to realize you should avoid Comair if possible.
I gave up checking any luggage years ago, no matter the airline. I pre-pack into a very nice box and next-day air it to my destination, usually insured for 2x its worth, the day before I take flight. I then pack 1 change of clothing into my backpack with my (limited) toiletries and a very good paperback and my pocket bits, plus all the metal I would normally wear, slip on my slides, wear a non-wired bra. My biggest delays in the past 20 years of travelling in the air have been either with other people or delays with the mechanics of the flight itself (\"We're sorry your flight is late. The plane is late coming in from XYZ.\").
As a for instance: I watched a guy go through the metal detectors 2x in St. Louis a few months ago. They ended up pulling a week's worth of quarters out of his pocket. C'mon. It's a no-brainer. The lines at the 'lost luggage' counters are growing exponentially, which should tell you something. The airline exists to get me from point A to point B. Period. I don't expect them to make me comfortable, I don't expect them to bend over backwards for me, and I don't expect them to give a &%$* about any possessions of mine. I expect them to fly that hunk of metal from one town to another. I expect FedEx or UPS to get my package to its destination.
I have not been disappointed since I started doing this and even ended up doing this same thing when we took a motorcycle trip last year.
@Darkneuro: Why insure your belongings for twice their worth? You won't get that much if you have to make a claim (the best you'll get is replacement cost), so why waste money on insurance that is useless?
Insurance to ensure your stuff gets to where you are paying for it to go sounds like extortion. Limited liability is complete BS. People should file law suits on lost luggage more often.
If you cant carry it on you should have it shipped. Postal carriers appear to be more honest when compared to the POS's involved in airlines.
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There's NOTHING that United can't lose!
Having once (briefly) worked for FedEx in a call center, I can tell those of you who seem not to know this already: shipping services lose and delay packages all the time. While most of us also understand that airlines lose luggage, I think Davis's logical assumption that her expensive gear would be less likely to disappear as checked baggage on a single-plane, nonstop flight (yes, go read her post)--as well as more likely to arrive when she did--than if she had involved a separately-traveling carrier was completely reasonable and intelligent.
I don't think her frustration has as much to do with the cost of her equipment as it does with the inability to continue her pursuits without said equipment. I've never bought base-jumping gear, but I don't imagine she could just pull up to the local Wal*Mart and replace whatever was missing, even if United had given her twice the amount of its value.
She wanted the stuff to be there with her when she landed; it wasn't. Money doesn't fix that.
Look on ebay or craigs list and see if any of it is for sale. Stuff like this does not get lost. It gets stolen.
It is her fault for checking in such expensive equipment. It should have been insured and sent visa FedEx.
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a few years ago all my portable Ham Radio gear got stolen out of my bags on a United Flight to NYC
nothing has changed
Doesn't EVERYONE know by now that airlines limit liability for baggage damage/loss?
Get insurance if you're checking in stuff worth someone's annual salary..
hey it could be tsa, it could be united employees or someone got to the luggage turnstile first and ran off with it, there are so many choices.
and just as a side note, those of you who 'lock' your zippered luggage by locking the two zippers together and think that is secure, all it takes is a pen poke into your zipper, open the case take what you want and then slide the joined zippers back and forth and it is all sealed up.
And this, folks, is why I fly Southwest. They have by far, the lowest lost (or as the airlines like to call it, \"delayed\") baggage rate in the airline industry, the service is universally friendly and helpful, and they really go way out of the way to solve problems and keep customers happy.
Too bad the craptastic dinosaur airlines haven't, in 20+ years of competition from Southwest, figured out that providing good service yields customer loyalty AND profitability.
Anyone else see the irony in checking a parachute? I think I'd prefer that to be a carry on item
opps, as per gear, when we do films we always send our stuff on ahead via fed ex or dhl. with fedex you are paying for a higher declared value NOT insurance. if something is broken they will come examine it and see if your packing was sufficient then decide how much you deserve, way different than insured.
Climbing gear is very bulky, very heavy and looks threatening to TSA folks. I have packed it in my climbing pack, zip-tied that shut, then zip-tied that into a larger duffle bag.
Climbing gear is very expensive; climbers spend years building a rack of gear and the thieves just dumped it, I'm sure. If it's marked and it shows up on the market, somebody'll have some explaining to do.
The gun idea is good, but then you're in, say, Albany with a gun and a long story to tell a cop.
Read the FARKING Tarrif.
It is a damn legal document. Written by lawyers too stupid to get a real job so they devote their lives on how to screw you over.
And they do a damn good job at it.
The tariff is referenced on your ticket, it is referenced on the website when you bought the ticket, it is referenced at the check-in desk (somewhere in farking mouse print)
They told you what they would cover and what they would not cover. Don't use the excuse you didn't know because you had ample opportunity to read the FARKING document.
Don't care if the baggage includes the Hope Diamond or your little girls favorite stuffed toy.... the airline only has to pay up to the limits declared in the tariff.
Don't bash the airline. Blame the stupid rock jockey who can't read.
I believe the payout is related to the disclaimer warranty when you buy the ticket. Still...if your stuff is that important to you (and worth that much) SHIP IT to yourself and insure it.
PS-->No such thing as a famous rock climber. That's akin to a famous curler.
Lost or stolen? The airlines have become the breeding grounds for thieves more so now then ever. So travelers beware. If you cannot afford to lose it mail it.
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Maybe she should have taken it as carry on?
@bastion72: That much gear can be petty bulky and probably wouldn't fit within the carry-on limits.
Have you @bastion72: Have you SEEN rock climbing gear? I'm fairly certain TSA would have had a field day with her. Considering all the sharp, pointy things. :D
@bastion72: Well, maybe not a carry-on, but at least insure it or ship it separately. No way would I let ANY airline handle $13K worth of my stuff.
@bastion72: If I'm a TSA agent, i'm going to be EXTREMELY curious about someone trying to bring a parachute on to an airplane...