var json_comments = new Array("
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YouDidWhatNow?
October 18, 2009 12:03 AM
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2 words: ejector seat.

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3 replies
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Applekid
October 18, 2009 2:32 AM
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@YouDidWhatNow?: And if my ejector seat jets are stuck on full throttle? WHAT NOW?

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ninjatoddler
October 19, 2009 5:43 AM
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@Applekid: In which case, you're going to need 2 match sticks, a good sized map of somewhere in the mid-east, a hair-clip, an exacto knife, and a large roll of duct tape.

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Razor512
October 18, 2009 12:08 AM
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I have driven older cars with out power steering at high speeds before and there were no control problems, they only showed up when going slow, when going fast, the steering wheel is easy to turn. (older consumer cars can be fun to drive if you can get them for cheap and have a lot of space, you can drive them in a large open area and go wild :) )

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10 replies
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The Porkchop Express
October 19, 2009 5:48 PM
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@Razor512: People who drive/captain/pilot boats will know about this as well.

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Bluth Certified Law Firm
October 18, 2009 3:16 AM
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@Razor512: Well, the thing is that if a car is designed to have power steering, it's a lot harder to maneuver if it loses said power steering. If a car is designed without power steering, the car is not so reliant on it, and it's easier to steer.

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cranke
October 19, 2009 5:12 PM
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@Bluth Certified Law Firm: thanks bluth for setting these mechanically UN-inclined people straight.

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Rachacha
October 18, 2009 1:10 PM
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@Bluth Certified Law Firm:Agreed. I drove a vehicle with manual steering, and at highway speeds, it was fairly easy to turn the wheel. I also have had a power steering pump fail while doing 60 MPH, and while I was able to retain control of the vehicle and drive it home, it took every ounce of energy (I was a scrawny 18yr old who was 6' tall and weighed 130lbs) to turn the wheel to get off an exit ramp. I made sure to leave myself extra room, and control my vehicle speed. Turning off the vehicle at +100 mph would not seem like a smart thing to do when shifting into neutral will disengage the engine and allow you to retain power steering and power brakes.

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techphets
October 18, 2009 4:09 AM
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@Bluth Certified Law Firm: I'm glad to finally see someone say that. So many people assume that vehicles with power steering handle exactly like manual steering vehicles- definitely not the case.

I've lost power steering through deliberate acts (experimenting) and through failures (belts, engine stalling, etc) and although there is some maneuverability I've worried that I might actually break the steering column when trying to turn. Nothing like driving a manual-steering vehicle at all.

I'm guessing most of the people who comment on the matter are doing so because they were surprised to learn that vehicles with manual steering are only difficult to steer at low speeds.

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lordargent
October 18, 2009 7:25 PM
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@techphets: I'm guessing most of the people who comment on the matter are doing so because they were surprised to learn that vehicles with manual steering are only difficult to steer at low speeds.

That's just physics at work.

At freeway speeds, a slight turn in the steering wheel will result in a larger apparent turn than at lower speeds.

50 MPH => 73.33 feet per second
5 MPH => 7.33 feet per second

In the first case, you turn the steering wheel to the right a few degrees, your car moves 73 feet, and a portion of that movement is to the right.

In the second case, you turn the steering wheel to the right the same amount, but your car only moves 7 feet. A portion of that movement is to the right, but it is significantly smaller than in case #1. So at a low speed, if you want to move to the right at a significant rate, you have to turn the wheel more.

/Whip out the Pythagoream Theorem and you can sketch all of this out.

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Difdi
October 18, 2009 2:20 AM
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@Razor512: Some cars have a steering wheel lock that engages when the ignition is switched off. Forget losing power steering, if your car has this \"feature\", turning off the ignition to remedy a stuck accelerator would result in no steering at all.

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thedarkerside.to
October 18, 2009 4:17 AM
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@Difdi:

There is no car (that I am aware of) where the steering wheel lock engages when the ignition is off. This would, how shall we put it, stupid.

What you should NOT do though is to completely move the key to the \"lock\" position (where you can pull it out), a simple twist to turn the ignition off though would be the way to go.

As for \"having problems steering without power steering at high speeds\": Not an issue, the wheels are turning too fast to offer any resistance to the steering, though once the engine stops running the hydraulic pressure drops and you will have to step harder on the brake to make the car stop.

I currently drive a 1969 Mercedes, it does have power brakes but no power steering and I have very little problems to parallel park the car or back it into a parking spot, even at low speeds, people who would have a stuck accelerator will already be so high on adrenaline that they will probably slam on the brakes much harder than they think.

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thisistobehelpful
October 18, 2009 8:06 AM
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@Snowrunner: Also \"There is no car (that I am aware of) where the steering wheel lock engages when the ignition is off. This would, how shall we put it, stupid.\"

Actually it would be a lot more stupid for it to engage while the ignition was on...

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thisistobehelpful
October 18, 2009 7:58 AM
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@Snowrunner: My 2000 Honda Civic does that. I do not have to remove the key for it to lock, only turn the ignition off and turn the wheel slightly to the left or right.

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bwcbwc
October 20, 2009 3:39 AM
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@thisistobehelpful: Actually, this illustrates another problem with the \"turn off the ignition\" trick. Even if your car doesn't lock the steering wheel with the ignition off and the key in the lock, it's too easy to misjudge the position of the key when turning it off, and you may pop the key out by habit.

Of course, overshooting neutral and putting the vehicle in reverse or Park poses its own set of problems at hight speed. Tumbling roll-over, anyone?

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Spunnel
October 20, 2009 5:50 AM
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@bwcbwc: But we all know that in an automatic, you don't need to push the button in to go from drive to neutral. You'll never over shoot.

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SharkD
October 19, 2009 3:43 PM
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@thisistobehelpful wrote:

My 2000 Honda Civic does that. I do not have to remove the key for it to lock, only turn the ignition off and turn the wheel slightly to the left or right.
Then your steering wheel lock/ignition switch tumbler is broken and you should have someone fix it.

The steering wheel lock should not engage unless you have removed the key from the ignition switch.

@Bluth Certified Law Firm wrote:

...if a car is designed to have power steering, it's a lot harder to maneuver if it loses said power steering. If a car is designed without power steering, the car is not so reliant on it, and it's easier to steer.

Most production-based race car teams disable the power steering on their vehicles, which were designed for power steering assist. Around the pits, the cars require much more effort to steer (slightly harder to turn the wheel. At 65, it's hardly noticeable, and above 90, the cars are far less 'jittery,' during minor corrections, than with the power steering enabled.

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dreamcatcher2
October 18, 2009 6:40 AM
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@Snowrunner: There are cars that have a steering wheel lock. It's an anti-theft feature. My car has it.

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mac-phisto
October 18, 2009 11:57 AM
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@dreamcatcher2: i believe what he's saying is that the steering wheel lock shouldn't engage with your key in the \"on\" position. don't turn the key to the \"off\" position or remove it; just turn it one click left from \"start\" to \"on\". try it sometime in an empty parking lot - you should still be able to turn your steering wheel. unfortunately, you do lose brake pressure, so stopping the car is still quite difficult, but it will stop the accelerator from functioning.

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Munchie
October 18, 2009 8:31 PM
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@mac-phisto: The problem with a number of these cars is that they use push button ignition. It prevents the car from being turned off while in motions. Its a \"safety feature\". Neutral + brake is about the only hope.

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GearheadGeek
October 18, 2009 9:37 PM
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@Munchie: push-button-start cars resist shutting off the ignition, not exactly preventing it. You either have to hold for 3 seconds, or press repeatedly in a short timeframe. It's not necessarily intuitive, but as it seems that many manufacturers are going to this at least on high-trim-level vehicles, it's good for people to know how it actually works. Of course, not knowing how anything really works hasn't stopped all sorts of people from getting their licenses so far...

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secretmanofagent
October 19, 2009 2:23 PM
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@SagarikaLumos: I think something to point out isn't to turn it off but to move it to accessory or back into drive without turning the engine on. My key sequence was (remove key position ->Accessory->Drive). In accessory, I believe I lost power steering but even at 50 mph it wasn't bad. What happens if you put it back to the drive position without restarting the engine? Is power steering controlled by the engine being on?

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Changed my name to \"I like potatoes\"
October 18, 2009 12:47 AM
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@Razor512: My first car was a 1980 Dodge Omni with no power steering or power brakes. You just get used to it. Consequently, getting into a car that has power steering and power brakes after driving one without - kind of weird. Now I can't imagine going back and driving without that stuff.

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kexline
October 19, 2009 2:33 PM
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@changed my name: A car with no power steering is a very, very different animal from a car with power steering that isn't working. You don't get used to it so much as you learn to defeat it. My 1980 Accord wasn't all that heavy, but I earned some seriously buff forearms from making low-speed turns with its formerly-power steering system.

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MustyBuckets
October 18, 2009 12:17 AM
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@Razor512: Exactly. Pushing a broken down truck at around 5 mph, the person behind the wheel could barely steer. When the truck's power steering failed at 55 mph, it wasn't a pain to make it home to try to fix it.

PS - I got rid of that truck.

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post_break
October 18, 2009 12:12 AM
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How about slamming it into neutral? This is what I did when my ford focus blew a valve and ran extremely lean, it actually started accelerating even if I let off of the gas. Had to toss it in neutral constantly until I got it fixed the next day.

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5 replies
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Amish Undercover
October 18, 2009 3:51 PM
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@post_break: Turning off the car on an older vehicle is probably the smart thing to do... the gas pedal on my Jetta on a very cold MN night (-10F) stuck to the floor and, after I threw it in neutral, the engine went wild until I turned the car off.

And, as noted in a post above, driving without power steering is not difficult at higher speeds. At lower speeds, it is easy to stop so it is also hard to argue turning the car off is a dangerous strategy.

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bwcbwc
October 20, 2009 3:43 AM
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@statgrad: First neutral, then bring the vehicle to a stop, then turn it off. 15 seconds or so of high revs won't kill the engine.

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RandomZero
October 19, 2009 11:32 AM
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@statgrad: \"Without power steering\" is one thing. My car, however, will lock if you turn it off and then move the wheel more than an inch or so. Doing 100, wheels off-center, and unable to control? That's a deathtrap.

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RandomZero
October 19, 2009 11:37 AM
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@RandomZero: And to clarify, yes, it's done this without being in park, with the key still in. Perhaps it shouldn't be - maybe something's failed. But I highly doubt my car's the only one on the road that does this - especially considering how utterly indestructible it is in every other regard.

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witeowl
October 18, 2009 12:41 AM
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@post_break: You mean like what the article suggests?

Their advice, should you find yourself with a stuck gas pedal, is to shift the car into neutral.
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RogerTheAlien
October 18, 2009 6:45 AM
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@witeowl: I read that, too. But, what I think post_break might be getting at (or I could be way off base) is that the article seems to go about testing the most difficult way of slowing a car with a stuck accelerator. The common sense approach (and I know common sense doesn't always prevail in an emergency - but this isn't about emergencies, it's about slowing a car with a stuck accelerator) would be to shift into neutral. But the article mentions that almost as an afterthought. Which is the WRONG thing to do if you're trying to teach people the CORRECT thing to do in this instance. The tag on the post says \"The More You Know\", so they should be touting the correct thing to do as the predominant feature in the post itself.

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nonsane
October 18, 2009 12:13 AM
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Please don't shut the car off unless it will not shift into neutral. Steering lock engaging sucks while going 120mph

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8 replies
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Skipweasel
October 18, 2009 5:50 PM
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@nonsane: There's a big difference between turning the ignition off and engaging the steering lock. If you can't work out the difference, go practice.

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SatanicGuinea
October 18, 2009 1:12 AM
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@nonsane: Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't that only engage if the car is in [P]ark?

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chris_d
October 18, 2009 8:10 PM
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@SatanicGuinea:
Yes, this is a great point. I forget this because mine is a manual. Any car made in the last 40 years or so cannot lock the steering wheel unless the car is in park. So shutting it off is completely fine. You won't be able to lock the steering wheel.

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Nytmare
October 18, 2009 12:38 AM
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@nonsane: There should be halfway point in the ignition where the engine can be shut off before the steering lock clicks on. At least there is in the cars I've driven.

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bwcbwc
October 20, 2009 3:45 AM
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@Nytmare: That can be hard to hit accurately in an emergency. Plus in some cars you turn the key the opposite direction to engage \"accessory\" mode (electric power enabled to the cabin, but not to the ignition coil.

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subtlefrog
October 18, 2009 4:08 PM
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@Nytmare: So here's the problem with some cars. I've got a Prius. If you just shut it down (which I'm not sure you can do at speed since it is all electric, and I'm not going to try...), it automatically goes into park. I assume other electric ignition cars do this. Or maybe just the CV transmission cars. In any case, it's probably not JUST the Prius, and people should be aware of this.

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VagrantRadio
October 19, 2009 3:55 PM
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@subtlefrog:

Automatic transmissions are made with a \"tab\" that is supposed to be flexible or break when thrown into park at high speeds. If it does automatically go into park, your trans will be screwed, but you will be okay.

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shepd
October 18, 2009 11:24 PM
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@subtlefrog:

There's no way Toyota would be so dumb to allow the Prius to auto-select park with the vehicle in motion. Even at only a few miles an hour, it'd rip the parking pin to shreds, and probably the transmission, too.

I expect it will select neutral until the computer notices 0 mph. It's just common sense and avoids lawsuits. :-)

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bwcbwc
October 20, 2009 3:50 AM
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@shepd: You mean like there was no way that Toyota could be dumb enough to ship slidy floor mats that can jam the accelerator down?

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shepd
October 20, 2009 1:40 PM
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@bwcbwc:

No, just that they'll only do it once. I expect problems with stuff like wheel interlocks have been worked out by now. Probably by other automakers, too. :)

The floor mat thing is just plain weird.

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nonsane
October 18, 2009 1:30 AM
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@Nytmare: On most cars there is the halfway point. In a panicked situation you're gonna reef on that key.

On older volkswagens for example it is, key in -> Run -> start.

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DeeJayQueue
October 18, 2009 1:14 AM
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@Nytmare: Usually car key switches have 4 positions:

-Key in
-Acc On
-Run
-Start

Above, the order in which most import cars are set to. However, on most American cars, at least up until the 90s, the order is:

-Acc on
-Key in
-Run
-Start

If you are driving a rental, or a car you're unfamiliar with, or in a panic situation, you may not know which way to turn the key or how far. Also, on some cars Acc On means different things, and sometimes the steering, heat, a/c, etc don't work. It's essentially a setting for leaving the radio and the 12v plugs on. Again, not everyone knows this and it's not universal to every car.

However (again), every car has a rev limiter, and whether stick shift or auto, every car can be shifted from drive to neutral and there is a retent to keep it from going from N to R inadvertently, so in the event of a stuck accelerator, shifting to N is always the right choice, and turning the key is never the right choice.

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subtlefrog
October 18, 2009 4:12 PM
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@DeeJayQueue: After I posted about the Prius, I thought about this - If you have a push button start, it's probably not a great idea to try this. In the Prius, it's the same, it's off, acc, start (with a second accessory mode in there I think, too). But if the car isn't actually ON, it is always in Park. Always. As a result, there may be a switch to prevent you from shutting down at 120 mph and throwing yourself through the window while dropping the transmission out the back end, but if not...well, you'll stop, I guess.

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Eric Y.
October 18, 2009 8:48 PM
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@subtlefrog:

\"there may be a switch to prevent you from shutting down at 120 mph and throwing yourself through the window while dropping the transmission out the back end\"

There was an episode of Myth Busters where they tried slamming cars into reverse and park at high speeds.

They were testing on older cars (20-ish years old?) and all of them had safety mechanisms built in so that if you slam the car into the wrong gear at highway speeds the car wouldn't throw you out of the window. The cars would just stall. I am absolutely sure that something like this would have been built into the Prius as well.

Even without safety mechanisms, you would probably achieve transmission failure and not come to a sudden halt. Though I wouldn't really want to find out.

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KMan13 still wants a Pontiac G8
October 19, 2009 11:32 AM
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@Eric Y.: hehehe in the newer Nissans with the CVT's (sentras, altimas, etc) you can put the car in reverse and it acts like neutral, but it turns on the reverse lights, and scares the crap out of the people behind you ... i've verified this in a rental with a friend following me ;)

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SagarikaLumos
October 18, 2009 1:32 AM
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@DeeJayQueue: I wouldn't say that key off is \"never\" the right choice. Stopping slowly without power steering or brakes is preferable to crashing into something at 120. I've turned a car off before at that speed just to see what it felt like. The steering is heavy, but not bad considering that you're steering over the power steering. Most cars retain enough vacuum to stop the car once WITH power brakes after keying off so long as you do one steady push and not release until stopped. In an unfamiliar car, Neutral might be preferred, but automatic cars are not going to lock the steering without the gearshift in Park and even sticks aren't going to lock it without pushing the key release button (hint: don't push it). If this happened to me in my own car, I'd probably turn it off to avoid the damage of the engine racing against the rev limiter in neutral (fixing a car with a stuck throttle is cheaper if it doesn't also have bent valves and a thrown rod). In a rental, screw that and go for Neutral.

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sirwired
October 18, 2009 2:12 AM
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@SagarikaLumos: Actually, with an engine running at WOT (Wide Open Throttle), you will quickly lose your power brakes after a few pumps. Power brakes rely on intake vacuum, and an engine at WOT has none.

So basically, if your gas pedal is stuck to the floor, all you have left is vacuum reserve, engine on or off... (Assuming you don't have a Drive-By-Wire car that will cut the throttle when you cut ignition)

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SagarikaLumos
October 18, 2009 1:35 AM
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@SagarikaLumos: Oops, I meant that I've turned a car off at highway speed, not 120. I've (ahem) probably definitely never gone 120.

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Difdi
October 18, 2009 2:24 AM
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@SagarikaLumos: Yes, but if your steering wheel locks in place when you turn off the ignition, that can cause fatal problems too.

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SagarikaLumos
October 18, 2009 10:26 AM
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@Difdi: You didn't read what I said. IT WON'T LOCK. If the automatic car isn't in Park, the steering won't lock. Stick cars won't lock unless the key release button is pressed. These safety interlocks have been required on cars sold in the US for 30 years or more. You can safely turn the key off with the car in neutral or drive and the steering WILL NOT LOCK until the car is put in park. Try it sometime in a parking lot with the car stopped if you're worried about it. It will not hurt the car to turn it off in drive. Don't mistake the now high-effort steering for locked-if you really try the car can be steered with the engine off, but the key won't turn back far enough to lock the steering until the gearshift is put in park.

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treimel
October 19, 2009 1:05 PM
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@SagarikaLumos:
Not 30 years \"or more\"--my \"73 Spitfire steering can ABSOLUTELY be locked without pressing a \"key release button\". (For one thing, there is no key release button.)

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kexline
October 19, 2009 2:48 PM
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@treimel: My 1998 Celica also doesn't have a key release button, and does lock the wheel if you turn the key all the way off while moving. (I've had this happen while letting the car settle into a parking space, which I guess might be a zero-mph maneuver.)

That said, you can certainly still retain control of the car by putting the key in the ACC position, and even if you lock the wheel you can always turn the key back to ACC.

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treimel
October 19, 2009 3:51 PM
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@kexline:


Oh, I know about the accessory position; if you look at the older post on this subject, I actually *had* a problem with my accelerator return spring, so I actually did that several times.

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kexline
October 19, 2009 5:34 PM
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@treimel: Sorry, the second part wasn't really aimed at you -- if you're driving a superannuated British roadster, it's reasonable to assume that you know your car and can drive.

I just didn't want it to look like I was agreeing in any way with the ten thousand ninnies on this thread who think the wheel lock engages as soon as you think about maybe turning the car off soonish.

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zarex42
October 18, 2009 12:19 AM
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You have the bit about power steering being important at 120mph totally backwards. You don't need power steering when you're moving fast, you need it when you're moving slowly.

Frankly it's really not all that dangerous. Steering works just fine, and at speed very little effort is required to steer.

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1 replies
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KMan13 still wants a Pontiac G8
October 19, 2009 11:28 AM
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@zarex42: My power steering died on my car briefly, and I did not experience much trouble steering on the highway ... only the exit ramp proved to be a bit of trouble haha. Luckily, it came back right after restarting the car ... when in doubt, reboot, eh? computer tech's motto...

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LJKelley
October 18, 2009 1:24 AM
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Lets hear it for the Germans! Mercedes, BMW, VW, and Audi have Smart Gas Pedals.


I'm glad I picked a german vehicle, as safety should always be the #1 priority for all vehicles.

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1 replies
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H3ion
October 18, 2009 3:38 AM
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@LJKelley: That may be due to all the fuss with Audi and reported unintended acceleration. I don't know if they ever found a cause or whether it was even really happening, but it made the press and gave Audi a black eye for a while.

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enine
October 18, 2009 1:38 AM
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There was a recall a few years back on Chrysler ABS which used the ABS pump to provide power braking and when it failed you lost power brakes which most people having always had power brakes thought they lost brakes completely.

I had a throttle position sensor go bad and cause an engine to rev up to where I was standing both feet on the brake until I shifted to N at a red light. Since I still had to get home i just slammed it in D when the light turned green and shifted in and out of N as necessary the rest of the way home.

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Englishee Teacher
October 19, 2009 8:54 AM
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@enine: This sounds like what happened to me. I was about 19 years old, driving my first car (an '89 Accord) and a loose bolt in the engine fell into the throttle and jammed it in the open position. My car was constantly accelerating. I figured this out as I was approaching a red light, and ended up out of my seat standing on the brake in a panic as the car continued to creep forward, refusing to come to a complete stop. The light changed, I pulled into the parking lot at my workplace, slowed it as much as I could, slammed it into park, took out the key, jumped out of the car... and it kept running. I was furious and booted it a couple times, then it shuddered and died.

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esthermofet
October 18, 2009 2:06 AM
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\"If you're already going 120 mph, losing power steering will cause a whole other set of very, very dangerous problems.\"

Logical analysis isn't your strong point, is it?

Turn off the engine. The car will no longer have power to maintain a top speed. It will decelerate on its own -- rather quickly from drag.

Pull the shifter into D1 (1st gear). Engine braking (yes, with the engine off) will slow the vehicle even faster.

Stand on the brakes -- even power brakes will work pretty well if you push hard enough.

Get a grip on the steering wheel and turn hard -- even a car with power steering will turn without power to the steering pump.

Losing a bit of control but with increased odds of a slower-speed impact, or no impact sure beats the odds of almost certain catastrophe.

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9 replies
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SacraBos
December 20, 2009 1:06 AM
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Yeah, faced with the dangerous set of problems with uncontrolled 120mph travel vs. the problems with reduced low-speed maneuverability, I'll take turning off the engine, thank you.

However, the last time I had an engine problem (Ford Ranger, Manual tranny) where the water pump locked up, I had that thing in neutral in less than 2 seconds. Coasted the beast nearly a mile across three lanes of traffic, off ramp, and into a side road. Almost made it into a Fry's parking lot, which would have been full of win!

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TheSurlyOne
October 18, 2009 8:11 AM
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@esthermofet:

I'm sorry but you're WRONG!

In a situation where the car is accelerating out of control, the safest way to react is by shifting the transmission into Neutral. You are effectively breaking the connection between the engine power and the drive wheels- which is EXACTLY what you want! If for some reason the driver is unable to select 'N', shifting into Park is the next best option.

A panicked driver in an emergency situation could easily lock the steering column while turning off the engine. That could be a fatal mistake. The loss of power assist for the brakes is another likely issue. But the greater issue is that Anti-lock Braking Systems (ABS) don't function with the engine off! ABS is especially critical if even one side of the vehicle has lost contact with the road surface, and far more critical if the driver is completely off the road (on grass, dirt or gravel) trying to stop the car.

An automatic transmission does NOT provide engine braking when the engine is no longer running.

Turning the steering wheel hard makes no sense, unless there is a solid barrier directly in front of you. At the very least, the driver will lose control of the vehicle and spin until it hits enough things to stop its momentum. If the car takes the hits on the driver's side, it wouldn't be pretty! Even worse, the car could flip and spin out of control end-over-end...

Slam it in Neutral then STAND on the brakes until the car is at a dead stop! Ignore the engine revving to 7000rpm and any unpleasant noises. When it stops, turn the engine off and get the hell out of it!

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shepd
October 18, 2009 11:39 PM
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@TheSurlyOne:

Car makers aren't that dumb anymore. This isn't your grandad's Model T we're talking about.

If all it took was turning the key one notch to lose all steering ability, we'd have heard about it on the news. Doing something like that *can* happen by mistake, especially for old, worn ignitions (you know, the kind you can pull the key out of while the car's still running).

Cars are designed to engage the wheel lock only when it is safe--and the only time the car is safe to not be steered is when it is at a standstill. AND the only time that is guaranteed (assuming the transmission isn't broken) is when the car is in park.

Of course, on a manual, things are different.

I know this, I tried all sorts of stupid tricks with the transmission selector when I installed my remote starter to make sure the car can't do anything stupid.

In fact, on my car, the wheel only locks after the key is removed. You can't remove the key on a properly functioning automatic ignition unless the car is in park (Perhaps also neutral, although I doubt that). You can't put the car in park without damaging the hell out of your transmission when the car is moving. Try it and believe!

People need to figure out their cars better. :) I bet half the people here don't know that you can switch from reverse all the way to drive without pressing the button on your shifter. And that you can't shift back into reverse from drive the same way. And that you can't shift from drive to a low gear without pushing it, but you can shift from a low gear to drive (or neutral).

In a panic situation, the method with the least possibility of mistake is the correct one. Considering few people shift to neutral by just banging on the shifter (instead they press the button) that opens up the following likely modes:

- Shift to neutral. OK
- Shift to reverse. OK (car will not actually engage the reverse gear at high speeds)
- Shift to park. Not great, but it does involve neutral, although you'll absolutely destroy the transmission. There's some (remote) chance you'll wreck the car too.

Now, turning the keys:
- ACC mode. OK, no engine.
- LOCK mode. OK, no engine.

Turning the keys wins because no matter what you do, the engine is not running. You no longer need to visually verify your decision. Using the shifter, for most, will involve looking at it, which you don't want to do at a high speed. Not looking at it and being jumpy (as one would at high speeds) is a recipe for a ruined car.

Of course, if you're needing to deal with this WHILE the car is turning, neutral is best, since the steering will still work the same. But, seriously, how many times has this situation occurred simultaneously while the driver was on a slalom course?

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floraposte
October 18, 2009 4:13 PM
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@TheSurlyOne: That's what I think--there's too much finessing required to remember what car you're in, what specific angle the key has to be at to enact which particular results, etc., while you're already dealing with your panicked, screaming children and the traffic ahead of you. A shift into neutral is immediately doable for everybody.

Kind of like when they quit telling people to \"steer into the skid\" because under stress conditions it was just too complicated for many to follow. Advice that people can actually follow without training or experience and under stress conditions is the best kind.

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SacraBos
December 20, 2009 1:14 AM
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I have to disagree with the \"steering into the skid\" comment. Although you can't just tell people that, you have to get them to live it. One thing I loved about living in a place with winter was doing donuts in snowy parking lots. You learn so much about how a car actually drives when marginally out of control - and how to get back into control. With practice, steering into the skid becomes so automatic, there have been times I've skidded and corrected without thinking about it.

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mralmostpopular
October 18, 2009 10:25 PM
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@floraposte: I completely disagree with your last statement. The SAFEST advice is the best kind. If it's too complicated for people, then perhaps we ought to make people go through training before they can drive a car. And if they still can't get it, then they shouldn't be on the roads endangering their lives and the lives of others. We have made it too easy to pass a drivers test in some states.

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floraposte
October 19, 2009 12:04 AM
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@mralmostpopular: The problem is that it doesn't matter how good the advice is when people don't get a chance to train regularly in the situation in question. Or any situation in question. So you can either have a scenario wherein everybody goes for 12 hours of driver maintenance a month (then, of course, kitchen safety maintenance, child safety maintenance, yard safety maintenance, etc.), or you can keep a message that's broadly effective and simple enough for everybody to follow. In other words, the approach with the best result in the real world. Which tends to be the simplest, because of limitations on time, money, and human trainability.

There's a reason that overcomplication is frowned upon in emergency services.

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GitEmSteveDave_#GitEmSteveDaveRocks
October 18, 2009 2:31 AM
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@esthermofet: WHAT?!?! Turn the wheel hard while you're going fast? I guess a roll over is the optimal outcome for you?

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Smashville
October 19, 2009 1:52 PM
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@GitEmSteveDave_Hates #DoucheDad: Actually, compared to hitting an object, a rollover actually is the optimal outcome (if your car is built well enough that the passenger compartment will actually sustain a rollover).

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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*
October 18, 2009 2:41 AM
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@GitEmSteveDave_#GitEmSteveDaveRocks: even if you don't roll... the road is a lot longer if you're going straight, not off to the side. (if you're lucky, and in a mountainous area, you might find one of those \"runaway truck ramps\" which is basically 200' of sand/dirt, built into a series of ~1' high mounds, ending at a large hill of soft material (like sand))

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Difdi
October 18, 2009 2:25 AM
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@esthermofet: But if your car has a steering wheel lock, it won't matter whether it has power steering or not. The wheel will simply freeze in place, and you'll have no steering control whatsoever.

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swissdietcoke
October 18, 2009 2:20 AM
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@esthermofet:

- Turning off your engine at any speed will most likely result in a steering lock, which would most certainly immediately cause a horrific accident unless you were traveling in a straight line with nothing in front of you

- Most, if not automatic transmissions have rev limiters on their gears. Ex. If you are driving 120mph and move the shifter from D4 to D3, the car will not shift, as you have passed the rev limiter for third gear.

- The consumer reports article just said what happened when they tried to slow down at 60mph. It didn't work.

RTFA.

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Super Moose
October 18, 2009 3:27 AM
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More reasons to drive manuals.

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TheSurlyOne
October 18, 2009 8:14 AM
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@Super Moose: Amen to that! I've thought the same thing from the first time I heard about the Toyota/Lexus issue. This wouldn't happen with a manual tranny (and even if it did, safety is right under your left foot- it's called a clutch)! :)

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SadSam
October 18, 2009 10:24 PM
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@TheSurlyOne:


Indeed, but sadly many new and/or newer cars don't come in manual transmission. I've always driven manny tranny but my current car didn't come in manual and now I've got an automatic.

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Pontificate
October 18, 2009 4:55 AM
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@Super Moose: Damn straight! Stick shift = More fun and control.

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StarVapor
October 18, 2009 3:40 AM
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So what's wrong with just shifting into neutral and let the engine over-rev until you come to a stop.
The power steering and power brakes will still be fine while the engine is over-revving.
If possible, when it comes to a stop, make sure you stop it with the front bumper touching an immovable object (the side of a building or such) then turn the ignition off.
Any engine damage incurred form over the over-revving would be the price you pay to live to drive again.

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jimv2000
October 19, 2009 3:14 AM
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@StarVapor: Don't a lot of cars have safeties that keep the engine from revving too high?

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Rachacha
October 18, 2009 2:18 PM
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@StarVapor: Absolutely nothing!


If you have the presence of mind, you could also turn on the cruise control and immediately begin to press the \"decellerate\" button which will begin to rev down the engine and bring the car to a controlled stop. Granted this option would take a while, but you could place the car in neutral, hit the cruise control decellerate to down rev the engine and use your brakes to slow down.

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roothorick
October 18, 2009 8:32 PM
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@Rachacha:

Tried it in my car. Don't work. The cruise control can be overridden by the gas pedal merely by pressing it; a stuck gas would certainly override the cruise and keep the engine in WOT.

I imagine it's a safety feature; if you find yourself in a situation where you have to accelerate to escape from a runaway semi, a cruise control that overrides the accelerator pedal would at best cost you valuable seconds while you fumble to turn it off. At worst, kersplat.

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H3ion
October 18, 2009 3:41 AM
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Most of the newer cars seem to have shifters that can either be placed in drive, or the cars can be taken through the gears manually. Not much fun when there's no clutch but you can still control the revs by deciding when to shift. In an unintended acceleration event, it might be useful to downshift first to use the braking power of the engine, and only when in low gear shift into neutral. I realize that takes some extra steps when a person doesn't have much time to think, but it might be helpful for those who generally shift their automatic transmission manually.

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APlusAuto
October 18, 2009 9:28 AM
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@H3ion: The problem with most of these cars that have this manumatic shifters is that they wont let you shift into lower gears if you're going to be anywhere near the redline when you downshift. Your best bet is still to shift the car into neutral and slam the brakes. You still have power steering and power brakes because the engine is still running.

If you still use a key to start your car you can turn the ignition off while it's in drive and not worry about the steering wheel locking cause the ignition wont turn all the way to the lock position if it is in drive. If you're in neutral though on some cars you can turn the ignition off and it will turn to all the way to the lock position and that will lock your steering wheel.

If you have one of these new fangled keyless ignitions with a push button start button and a transponder, your best bet is to get the car into neutral because most of them won't let you shut down the ignition while the car is moving as a precaution in case someone accidentally hits the ignition button. I think your only option to turn the car off while in drive is to throw the transponder out the window. In theory once the car gets out of the transponders range it will shut off the fuel pump and the engine will stop, but that might also lock the steering wheel.

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montusama
October 18, 2009 3:58 AM
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I knew that cats were behind all of this.

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HogwartsAlum
October 18, 2009 2:18 PM
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@montusama: Yes, I can see the problem...the kitteh slides onto the accelerator and refuses to be dislodged.

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Laura Northrup
October 18, 2009 10:32 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: You know, we kid about this, but this actually happened. I had a roommate who adopted a kitten and had to pick her up immediately; no time to bother getting a cat carrier. Instead, she parked me in the backseat and told me to hold the cat.

The flaws in this plan were that (1) Cats hate me and (2) this was a terrified 6-month-old kitteh. On the highway at rush hour, the cat first dove under the driver's seat, meowing hysterically. Then she made her way under the brake pedal, making for a terrifying trip down the highway because she was terrified to press the brake lest the cat get smushed.

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HogwartsAlum
October 19, 2009 7:05 PM
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@Laura Northrup: Cardboard box with a hole in it for air.

Scary!

@floraposte: I agree - it's not safe for the kittehs or the people!
T

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floraposte
October 18, 2009 4:15 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: Actually, that apparently is a problem with unrestrained pets in cars sometimes, especially kitties--they dart down to the nice safe place in the footwell and wreak havoc. Keep 'em in carriers, folks!

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Froggmann
October 18, 2009 4:20 AM
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I've had several vehicles do stuff like this. Here is what you need to do if you end up with a stuck throttle.

1. stab at the top of the accelerator with your toe. THis will usually un-catch the bottom of the pedal from the carpet or floor mat.

2. Shift into neutral, most cars now a days have rev-limiters so the engine won't blow. this will allow you to retain power steering and power brakes as you decelerate.

3. Turn the engine off, no your steering wheel will not lock. Again modern cars have interlocks to prevent you from locking the steering wheel and removing the key while the vehicle is not in park.

If you choose #3 you will have to contend with no power steering and only 2 or less applications of power brakes. Shifting an auto into a lower gear will slow you down but for a short time. Once the automatic transmission loses enough pressure your transmission will go into \"neutral\" but in the meantime the deceleration will help.

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blahblah999
October 18, 2009 6:50 AM
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This is certainly one situation where driving a manual transmission car (as I do) pretty much avoids the whole problem. Using the clutch when slowing (before using the brake) is what you already do. So unless you clutch release also fails at the *same time* your engine decides to go accelerate on its own (which seems pretty damn unlikely to me, barring some sort of intentional sabotage) you are fine.

Also, switching the ignition off is not so bad - as long as the crankshaft is still spinning, it will still be turning the steering pump, and there should still be some vacuum (for power brakes), and in fact, the throttle being wide open (regardless of whether the you cut the ignition or not) will already be robbing you of vacuum anyway.

Also, the engine will add only *some* braking effect with an automatic transmission, due to the torque converter - but with the ignition cut, at least it wont keep you speeding up. Once the synchronizers in the transmission let you, pop into neutral, and then if you have space, cycle the brakes on and off to slow down to keep them from becoming useless as quickly (rather than slamming them on, which in might also lose you steering traction)

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Major-General
October 18, 2009 7:50 AM
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Funny thing, I read about the problems of the Toyota recall as also occuring in vehicles without floor mats installed.

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nstonep
October 18, 2009 2:07 PM
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@Major-General: Yep. I believe the problems started with the switch to drive by wire throttle bodies but don't quote me. Physically speaking...I would think there'd be more problems with a cable throttle but that's not the case.

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OMAC
October 18, 2009 11:49 AM
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No power steering at 120 MPH is no problem since you won't be doing any drastic turns. I think I read somewhere once where power steering was only used at low speeds where you needed to move the wheel more than just a few inches, like parking lots and making turns.

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Skipweasel
October 18, 2009 5:53 PM
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@OMAC: Chances are with modern electrically operated power steering it won't be cutting in at speed anyway. Mostly it only does anything at low speeds.

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ktetch
October 18, 2009 12:33 PM
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@OMAC: Right. I had a 97 town+country and one spring day, the shaft on the PS pump sheared (we were doing a set of 360 loops in a parking lot to re-calibrate the compass). We didn't get it fixed until july4th. 3 months driving a big heavy minivan with no power steering. Now I grew up with cars without power steering, so I soon got back used to it, it's really not an issue.

People talk about panicked drivers though, and the answer is simple - driver training needs to be increased. US driving standards are abysmally low, and it doesn't help that here in Ga, they're even being taught dangerous things. Apparantly, if you breakdown on a freeway, they reccomend raising the hood, and staying in the car. You should never stay in the car but get out and as far from the roadway as possible, or at least on the other side of crash barriers.

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nstonep
October 18, 2009 2:04 PM
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Alright...if the accelerator get's stuck here's my advice: tuck, roll, and avoid the semis ;) That's if you can figure out how to unlock your doors without the key fob (there's no rolling eye smiley ;( )

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nstonep
October 18, 2009 2:12 PM
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@nstonep: I forgot to mention that the \"other\" problem is with the yackos that put PEDAL covers on their cars. If you're going to put pedals on your car they need to be drilled and the bolts need to be cut to fit.

I remember going to get a tire changed and the firestone tech jumped the curb in a customers toyota matrix then threw a hissy fit to his boss about the pedal covers making the throttle stick; then started yelling at the kid. It was the funniest thing I've seen in my life...besides a cop tackling some guy high out of his mind at a burger king.

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henrygates
October 18, 2009 2:08 PM
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Did they not test shifting to neutral? That seems like the most obvious thing to do. Although I recently drove a new BMW 7 series and they have electronic shift paddles. No idea what would happen if you tried to shift to neutral at 60mph or if your power cut out. Getting it to shift into drive and reverse while the vehicle was stopped was frustrating enough.

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Rachacha
October 18, 2009 2:23 PM
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@henrygates: FTA: \"So what should you do if you are put in such a situation? The answer is simple: Put the car in neutral. In each one of the cars we tested, we were able to easily nudge the gear lever into neutral and stop the car quickly.\"


Seems like they did test shifting into neutral.

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Caveat
October 18, 2009 2:08 PM
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OK, I have an Avalon and am subject to the recall. What I want to know is how you got a picture of my cat (or her identical twin!

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darkforcesjedi
October 18, 2009 2:11 PM
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My dad has a custom Chevy Impala with a supercharged LS3 motor in it. I had a stuck accelerator in it a few years ago in a residential neighborhood. My first reaction was to hit the brakes, which had no discernible effect (went from 25 to 60 in about 3 seconds). It was easy to stop and handle once I turned the ignition off. The hard part was pushing it home afterwards.

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Joewithay
October 18, 2009 2:39 PM
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FYI if you turn your car to \"Acc\" rather than off you will still have power steering and brakes.

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reidnez
October 18, 2009 3:30 PM
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@Joewithay:

Sorry, but that is generally not so. Power brakes run off a vacuum booster from the engine, power steering runs off an engine-driven hydraulic pump. So both systems are dependent on the engine running, not just the electrical system being on. Some newer cars do have electrically-assisted power steering which might function in the \"accessory\" setting, if they are designed to. I'm not totally sure there.

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GearheadGeek
October 18, 2009 9:54 PM
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@reidnez: You're half right... the power steering will most likely stop functioning, but at wide-open-throttle you're just getting vacuum for the power brakes out of a reservoir anyway, the engine isn't making vacuum with the throttle open. So, you'll have the same amount of brake boost available to you that you would with the key on.

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É®îç
October 18, 2009 3:11 PM
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Why give the floor mat excuse any additional credence? How many millions of cars are out there now, and have been for many years, with mismatched mats, double mats, or backwards mats with no problem?

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AirIntake
October 19, 2009 9:21 PM
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@EricAugu: Yeah, I'm from Canada, where everybody has aftermarket snow mats. My throttle even got stuck once because of them. As you can tell from my commenting though, I didn't panic, put it in neutral, and am still alive.

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reidnez
October 18, 2009 3:23 PM
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Losing power steering at high speed will affect your ability to drive very little. In fact, for a couple decades now all cars have used variable power steering, which adjusts the assist depending on speed. At freeway speeds, it is pretty much \"off\" anyway.

Now, losing power brakes is a concern...but you will just have to push the pedal harder, using two feet if necessary.

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IfThenElvis
October 18, 2009 4:13 PM
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How about a low tech approach? Reach down, or have your passenger reach down, and pull back on the mat. Floor mats have always been a issue. My brother had problems with his 1980 Chevette.

Are there really other real-world causes of stuck throttle (not theoretical) that were not floor mat related?

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treimel
October 19, 2009 5:03 PM
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@IfThenElvis:


It's happened to me by the throttle-return spring falling off the linkage. Nothing theoretical about it.

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floraposte
October 18, 2009 6:21 PM
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@IfThenElvis: You don't necessarily know it's the floor mat without looking, and that's a bad time to take your eyes off the road. You can shift into neutral without looking down.

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thaboosh
October 18, 2009 4:58 PM
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This happened to my friends '08 Tacoma last weekend. We were driving back from the white mountains and he went to pass when the road became two lanes. He has a standard and was in third, the engine reved WAAAAY up twice and he quickly realized what had happened and reached down and pulled the floor mat.

lucky he stayed calm and instantly knew what had happened. scared the shit outta me.

He's getting new mats this week.

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[DFX] Deimos
October 18, 2009 7:34 PM
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Losing power steering at higher speeds IS NOT a problem. The small amount of force you are providing to the gear box coupled with the force of the car moving forward will allow the car to be easily manuverable until you get down to about 10-15 MPH.


I have driven 18 wheelers with fully loaded trailers before, and those are even controllable without power steering (even at low speeds, though you have to use your entire body weight to turn the wheel).

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chris_d
October 18, 2009 8:04 PM
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Neutral might be the best advice on newer cars with rev limiters, but with an older car (how old, I don't know), you will blow your engine. In the latter case, all this talk about losing power steering and power brakes is moot, because they are driven by the engine, and once you blow the engine you'll lose them anyway. So now you have no power steering, no power brakes, AND a blown engine.

Power steering isn't as much of an issue when driving down the road. It's much different than trying to turn the wheels on a parked car. Braking is more difficult, but can be done. You just really have to stomp on it. As long as your engine is off, the parking brake can also help slow you down. Just apply the parking brake slowly.

Every GM car I have driven has a position of ignition off, steering unlocked that is one click back from run. In addition, the GMs I have driven with manual transmissions actually have a stop that prevents you from going back to the lock position without pressing a release button. That's actually very safe. You can turn the key backwards and it won't lock the wheel unless you press the button.

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GearheadGeek
October 18, 2009 9:57 PM
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@chris_d: switch-off is a good option, definitely, but if all that comes to mind is putting it reverse, don't advise people against that because it might \"blow the engine.\" A blown engine is MUCH less painful than hitting the back of a truck or some immobile object at high speed.

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chris_d
October 19, 2009 12:21 AM
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@GearheadGeek:
I can't see putting it in reverse being a good option. Isn't it possible that the transmission could lock up or apply some amount of power to the wheels in the opposite direction, cause the driver to completely lose control?

I completely agree that blowing the engine is better than a crash; my point was simply that the advice against turning the car off because you'd lose your power steering and brake power assist is moot on a car without a rev limiter because a blown engine isn't going to provide you with any power assist for brake or steering either. So there is a chance that by following the CR advice, you might end up losing power steering and braking ANYWAY.

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GearheadGeek
October 19, 2009 12:52 AM
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@chris_d: Your right, neutral is the good option... it's also the gear my brain was apparently in while I was typing. I have no idea where \"reverse\" came from

For a LOT of older engines, they'll just float the valves and lose power somewhere around redline without having a cast-iron fit, at least for a little while. That would give you power steering for a while as you coast down, and for people who are afraid of the key locking the ignition column it would work out fine.

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GearheadGeek
October 19, 2009 12:53 AM
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@GearheadGeek: bloody buggering edit-free hell. \"you're\" not \"your\" damn it. Please can we have an edit button when we shuffle off this Gawker coil?

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chris_d
October 18, 2009 8:13 PM
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A couple of other posters mentioned this; they deserve credit. I forget this because mine is a manual.

If you have an automatic, try this. Go out to your car, set the parking brake. Turn the key to run (but don't start it). Shift your car into [D]. Turn the car off and try to remove the key. See if the steering wheel locks. IT WON'T. There is a safety interlocking to prevent this. I can't believe consumer reports missed this!!!

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chris_d
October 19, 2009 12:29 AM
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Alright, so after reading this, I decided to go out and do an experiment. I got my car going 35 MPH, shifted to N, and turned off the engine. The safety prevented me from turning it to lock. Steering was just fine. It was only a little harder than with power steering. The other thing is that there remained vacuum in the brake booster. I was able to brake easily because I still had power assist and come to a stop. In fact, I was able to depress the brake pedal 3 separate times with no increase in effort. It was only on the 4th time that I started to notice the power assist go away, but I still had 50% or so.

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treimel
October 19, 2009 1:11 PM
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@chris_d:
The truth is--if you don't panic, a stuck accelarator is just not a serious problem.

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ChristopherReedsApprovalBlinkage
October 19, 2009 1:19 AM
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So cats are behind stuck accelerators?

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sam1am
October 19, 2009 5:40 AM
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I drove a car for some time after high school that would, no joke, start accelerating full bore without notice or apparent cause at random times while I was driving it. Given how accelerators work, I have no idea how it happened, but I would have to fight the accelerator with the brakes and it lead to more than a few scary situations.

The car also talked. It would say things like \"the door is ajar!\" and other helpful notes. Sometimes while driving it would randomly say \"electrical malfunction!\" and sometimes the voice would be all messed up sounding.

Yea the whole experience was pretty much like real life star trek.

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NE-Phil
October 19, 2009 1:23 PM
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A few days after I had purchased a used Honda CR-V, from a Honda dealer, the mat caused the accelerator to stick. I found myself going 60 mph in a 35 mph zone with my family in the car.
I had no idea what was going on. I simply put the car into neutral, letting the engine rev, pulled off to the side of the road, came to a stop & then turned it off.
Once I was able to see the floor I saw that the mat was not properly hooked into the floor pegs. (Thanks Honda dealer!)

Now I check it every time we get in the car but it has never come loose.

And if I had blown the engine while it was revving up in neutral? Then I would have taken it back to the Honda dealer with a big lawsuit if they didn't want replace it.

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extremenachos
October 19, 2009 1:24 PM
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I had an old 85 Regal that the accelerator got stuck on, actually it happened because i was 18 and bored, so I stomped on the pedal then took my foot off. The accelerator got stuck, so I was flying down a secondary road in the edge of town. I kicked it into neutral and coasted down to a a safe speed, killed the engine and rolled up to the four-way stop.

That thing wasn't fuel injected, so I cleaned the carburetor off, the throttle was getting stuck.

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GreatWhiteNorth
October 19, 2009 2:30 PM
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Well this was one of the topics discussed in the hot tub last Saturday night... And after setting out the scenario my friend the funny car driver (racer, pilot???) and Car Salesman replied immediately just shift to neutral or turn the engine off with the key!

This is not a difficult problem. Could be very scary though.

I routinely shift into neutral in both standard and automatic transmission vehicles while driving... Helps greatly in slippery winter conditions...

I have in the past also tried shutting down the engine via the key and it worked well too... plenty of vacuum reserve for the brakes and power steering isn't an issue...

The recent accident caused by this problem has been very unfortunate for those involved, but has provided a very good learning moment for the rest of us.

Finally, if I get my way I will always own and drive a standard transmission vehicle... I beleive it forces you to be an active driver and not a half witted passenger behind the wheel! (Take that you SUV driving soccer moms!)

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holytrainwreck
October 19, 2009 3:39 PM
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Standing on the throttle, standing on the brake...


Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug...

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treimel
October 19, 2009 3:48 PM
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I know it's been said before, but it bears repeating. The last sentence in this post is just 100% wrong--power steering does *nothing* at high speed. Nada. zilch. I know about a million other commenters have already pointed this out, but Laura's really got to change this. Promulgating this kind of misinformation is actually, truly physically dangerous.

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treimel
October 19, 2009 3:55 PM
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@treimel:
I guess I should unpack that--someone could get hurt because they know enough to turn the key to the accessory position, but hesitate to do so because they fear that losing power steering at high speed is a problem. It isn't, and it irritates me that a post about \"what to do in an emergency\" would be so misleading.
/rant over.

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shepd
October 19, 2009 5:32 PM
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Just for the hell of it, I just tried the turn off the ignition test with my automatic 2001 Corolla.

I did it just before a bend one would NOT want to round at over 60 km/h. The steering was definitely harder, but I got around the bend just fine, it was not difficult. I performed this feat at 50 km/h.

The brakes brought me to a safe, slow, controlled and easy stop at the stop light ahead. In fact, the brakes were no harder to use than they are normally (this car DOES have power steering and brakes).

All positions of the key did this. My wheel did not lock.

I tested again to see if I could start the car while moving. It will not start in drive (smart!). Once I shifted to neutral it started without issue.

So:

Toyota Venza - 0.
Toyota Corolla - 1.

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Traveshamockery
October 19, 2009 5:58 PM
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My strategy: do a barrel roll.

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MrEvil
October 20, 2009 1:50 AM
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shifting to neutral won't work on alot of newer cars. Their PCM's won't let you shift the transmission in a way that will potentially damage it or cause an over-rev condition in the engine. The ONLY way to escape a runaway is to pull the key and hold onto the wheel and hit the brakes. Usually enough residual vacuum will be left in the brake cylinder you'll have two or three good pumps before the brakes will be impossibly hard to press.

As for lack of power steering, a vehicle is easier to steer the faster it is going, it's also why alot of cars have speed sensitive power steering. It lessens the amount of assist at higher speeds. Holding the vehicle straight shouldn't be a problem, nor should safely pulling to the right.

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vladthepaler
October 20, 2009 4:16 PM
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I don't drive so maybe I'm missing something obvious, but why not just engage the parking break?

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FRE
November 25, 2009 5:34 PM
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Not all cars are the same. One should familarize oneself with a car before driving it to be prepared to deal with a stuck accelerator, since it is not a rare occurrence.

Not all engines have rev limiters. If an engine does not have a rev limiter, shifting to neutral with the accelerator stuck down to the floor will usually destroy the engine, sometimes in less than 2 seconds.

Learn how the ignition switch works, so that you will be able to shut off the ignition quickly without locking the steering.

If the accelerator is stuck down to the floor, the engine will not provide vacuum for the power brakes so power brakes which use a vacuum booster (almost all do), will provide power for only one brake application. However, the brakes will still work, but will require considerably more force. If the usually light touch is ineffective and the driver panics and assumes that braking is impossible, he may crash.

Even a car with power steering can be steered when the engine is not running, but the force required will be far greater.

On your own car, you should, in a safe place, experiment to see how the car handles without the power steering and power brakes so you will be prepared and not panic. While driving at about 20 mph, shift to neutral and turn off the ignition. Press the brake pedal a couple times to use up the vacuum, then note how much pedal force is required to stop. Note how the steering responds. Then, if the accelerator sticks, you will not panic, but will be able to respond sensibly and effectively to prevent crashing.

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