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I can forgive Long John Silver's, but not KFC.
Way to go, KFC.
6 replies
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@temporaryscars: It's not KFC that did it. It's the fault of whatever processing company the franchisee is using.....
I can forgive Long John Silver's, but not KFC.
Way to go, KFC.
@temporaryscars: It's not KFC that did it. It's the fault of whatever processing company the franchisee is using.....
Dear lord. Whoever wrote the article linked to here should not be allowed to write. The errors almost gave me a headache. Why didn't they contact the payment processor for this KFC, as I doubt the KFC's POS system saves/can save all the transactions in internal memory?
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@H3ion:
The Dean: I thought you had a degree from Columbia.
Jeff: Yes, and now I need to get one from America.
@GitEmSteveDave: #RosaRocks: Because it is KSFY. The morning news is more like an amateur morning radio show than a newscast. It is certainly more interesting than the other channels. Their competitor station KELO puts quite a few stories online that look like a third grader wrote them.
Yes the POS can save all transactions, usually there is a backend server that handles the database. On my POS it is possible the run the credit card batches again thru the backend server but it's not easy to do.
@Skaperen:
How does your system take tips into account at a sit down restaurant where you paid after you've eaten? Usually at a full service restaurant the server does these things,
1: gives you the bill. 2: you take out a credit card as payment. 3: server takes your card and runs it for the amount on the bill, then returns it to you. 4: you write in a tip amount, take your copy and leave restaurant. 5: server comes back and picks up restaurant copy, see's tip amount, goes to POS, puts in that amount.
Since the card is no longer available how would the tip get credited properly?
Yea, its just data on a hard drive, my POS has all transactions since day 1. I can find how many ice teas in sold for any timeframe and which server sold it and how the tea was paid for.
@GitEmSteveDave: #RosaRocks: It's called a broadcast journalist. The broadcast folk barely even know how to write something that sounds comprehensible when spoken ... most of the time. But try to read it and it's downright horrible.
Now, try to tell a broadcast folk about things like attribution and editorializing and your head will probably explode.
- Print Journalist
@GitEmSteveDave: #RosaRocks: Yes, the reporter or producer usually just takes the transcript they wrote for the air, takes out obvious things like pronunciations and puts it in the site.
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Wow.. I could see this being a huge disaster for some people.
Is YUM Co going to pay all the fees and things from people's checks bouncing? I can assume that the banks might be willing to wave their fees, but usually the company you write the check to has a fee as well. I wouldn't imagine that ALL of these companies would be willing to wave fees because of something like this.
Do I smell a class action suit in the future?
@Kimaroo - Fortified with Kittydus Purrularis: I remember when DreamHost accidentally ran their billing program as if it were 2008-12-31 - on 2008-01-15. (see [blog.dreamhost.com] [blog.dreamhost.com]) Reminds me of that.
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@Kimaroo - Fortified with Kittydus Purrularis: I suggest that *IF* YUM (or some 3rd-party payment processor, whoever is actually responsible) refuses to pay the fees then each affected individual should pursue criminal fraud charges for each doubled charge... because it's either a mistake for which the business is responsible or fraud they've committed intentionally. Let YUM choose which is less bad for them. ;)
/facepalm
It's not fraud. If someone does not accept financial responsibility for a mistake that is not an admission that the \"mistake\" was intentional. The proper recourse is to sue them in small claims court.
Unless your desired outcome is to have a bunch of people laugh at you - in that case you should try to have them charged with fraud.
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It is when they are the ones clearly responsible and have already acknowledged it. A refusal to do anything about it would make it fraud.
If you wrote a check you didn't know was bad, then when you were told about it, you then refused to take care of it. Seriously, don't you think you would be charged with fraud?
@Cant_stop_the_rock: It is one, or the other. If it's a mistake, they should correct it. My suggestion was more for the public shaming than the actual outcome, since even the outside chance of a fraud conviction wouldn't likely result in payment of the fees incurred by the injured parties. I'd say the companies involved can ill afford the bad publicity, however.
Obviously the highest probability is that it's some sort of stupid mistake... a backup of just the charges (and not their settlements) was restored, perhaps, and the system proceeded to do what it's designed to do and settle the charges.
If YUM or the payment processor get moving quickly with documentation to the various financial institutions, most of the charges will probably be reversed at no charge to either party. If they don't, shame them mercilessly.
I have herd that isnt too rare anymore to overcharge or double bill people using debit cards at fast food places. This is the 2nd story in a week about it.
First from my mom talking about some chat she and a friend had to a manager at sonic, that the one near me overcharges people on debit cards and the manager they spoke to knows about it. Now KFC.
This just proves that everyone should keep every receipt and check their bills before paying it to make sure each item is correct.
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@KTK1990: i've been double-billed before, but that was being billed twice, in the same minute. almost as if a VERIFY or SUCCESS packet got lost on the way back to the POS machine, so the cashier re-ran it. it's only ever happened at doctor's offices, and they just credited the extra copay to my next visit. (not optimal, i know, but better than dealing with a fast food joint, where i don't exactly have an account)
but this story sounds more like they were billed once in april, then billed a second time last week. And i think GitEmSteveDave_thinks gStein needs a star too is right, it's a problem with the payments processor, not the KFC franchise or YUM!
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@gStein_has joined the star bandwagon: The fact is though the merchant should take ownership and responsibility for it, not the consumer. The merchant processor is a subcontracted service of that business. How is that the consumer's fricking problem? It's not.
Why anyone uses their debit card anymore is beyond me.
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@sbcpunkrocker: Well, not everyone can afford to huddle in fear and revulsion at the back of their tinfoil-lined cave like you.
@sbcpunkrocker: Why anybody doesn't use their debit cards for everything is beyond me. First of all it's more financially responsible and just as protected by Visa and MC agreements as a credit card is. Second, Credit cards will soon be charging 79% interest daily, before the law kicks in anyway.
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@sbcpunkrocker:
Because they can, and you don't get to tell everyone else what to do. What would you suggest? A credit card?
Maybe it's the customers' fault for using debit cards.
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Because they can, and you don't get to tell everyone else what to do.
@tbax929 is rooting for a Phillies repeat: It would be awesome if the forums could just auto-reply with this to everyone who asks a variant of, \"Why does anyone do X?\"
@sbcpunkrocker: KFC doesn't accept credit cards. It's the only option if you don't have cash, but the kicker is that you have to pay the $1.5 atm fee.
@knightracer: I've never been to a KFC that doesn't accept credit cards (at least not in the decade or so during which I've handled most of my daily purchases via credit card.) Perhaps this is something peculiar to the franchise in your area.
@sbcpunkrocker: Because some people don't want to use credit cards (even if they could pay the full balance) or checks, or carry a pile a bunch of cash with them? I use my debit card all the time and have never had an issue...I usually run it through as credit though so I have some kind of protection from Visa.
@mbz32190: It's still not the same protection you would get from a credit card.
Get over your credit cards are evil and I'll run up debt if I use one attitude. They put an important layer of protection between the merchants and YOUR money. If something gets screwed up your mortgage is still payed because the credit card absorbed the transaction and carries it until its straightened out. Clark Howard refers to these as \"Piece of trash fake Visa or Mastercard\" for a REASON!
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@sbcpunkrocker: Are you the customer in front of me still whipping out your checkbook and having to write half your biography on the front of the check?
It's actually a new government program to discourage people from eating fast food. It is part of the new health care bill and this is just a trial.
\" there are people who are regular customers there and all of the sudden they have $300-$400 charges coming through their account\"
If you're one of those \"regular customers\" then I think you've got bigger problems than $300-$400 in accidental charges...
@Homerjay is utterly alone.: Please stop commenting on other people's food habits that are none of you're business. Thanks.
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We're secretly going to double bill everyone's debit card. Let's see if anyone notices.
Sounds like they're copying gym membership's billing departments, Comcast's billing department and AT&T's etc.
This is actually fairly common but usually only happens on a smaller scale and they are typically resolved by by the processing company fairly quickly.
Also, a few facts since it seems most people don't understand how restaurants (and business in general) use third party vendors to handle credit/debit transactions....
1. This isn't YUM or \"KFC\" itself. It's probably a franchise location.
2. This is the fault of a processing company, not the franchsiee or \"YUM\"(KFC).
Businesses pay these processing companies either a fixed fee per transaction or a percentage for every instance a customer uses a card. For example if you go to buy a 99 cent item at McDonalds and pay with a card, that store or franchise probably has to pay 5 cents or whatever to the processing company.
Also, To whomever suggested class action lawsuit, that's idiotic.
@Hogan1: Apparently you don't seem to understand how business works. When you subcontract a service, in this case card transaction processing, you are RESPONSIBLE if they screw up for making it right for the consumer, not blaming some part of your business arrangements that should be transparent to the consumer. Maybe that's why you don't own a business.
@Areyouagoodlittleconsumer:
I'm looking for where I said they shouldn't take any blame but alas I have yet to find it. In cases like these the franchisee or business has to rely on the processor to fix it as they have the data.
From your response I can only assume that either you have incomplete or inaccurate knowledge of how it works or you'd simply rather bash people and make inaacurate statements then contribute meaningful and productive conversation. Based on your previous posts, I'd guess the latter.
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This just shows that the system we have now for credit and debit cards is fundamentally broken. The problem is the fact that mere information is all that is needed to charge an account, once, or more than once. Accounts can be charged on just the merchants say-so if they have the information. Substitute scammer for merchant for the full picture.
We need a system where it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to be charged more than the customer allows, and only as often as the customer allows.
One way to do it (in a system I designed) involves a smart card with a display and keypad. The card gets an optical signal from the cash register and displays the amount requested. The customer enters the security authorization at the level they prefer (stupid people can choose to leave it insecure while smart people might use a long security code that changes daily ... the important thing is you get to choose your security level preference if you use a bank smart enough to provide it). The card generates a transaction authorization based on the timestamp, merchant ID, account reference number, and amount. The transaction authorization code is then sent to the cash register over the same optical link (all this happens within a second or less). The cash register can then verify if the request is valid through merchant services connecting with the bank. Or the business can elect to trust the customer and not verify it.
A transaction code has meaning only for one exact transaction, between two exact parties, for one exact amount, at one time. A 2nd transaction would need to be generated to do a 2nd charge, and the smart card holder will have required re-entering the code for a 2nd transaction (banks may choose to require this to avoid risks of customers getting multiple charges).
I also have designed an internet equivalent for this which is slightly more complicated, replacing the card with bank access using a special device plugged into the computer (potentially the very same card with a USB port).
@Skaperen:
Uh, these errors happen on the processors side and not the banks or at the POS. Your \"system\" would have no effect on this.
You may want to do a bit more research on how POS credit/debit transaction systems work.
This KFC location is one of the worst run franchises ever. If there was a way for the store to cause this error, they probably did.
@bohemian: That goes without saying. Anyone who would make the business decision to mix a KFC with a LJ's is clearly mentally troubled, and I don't even want to think about the flavors emminating from their deep fat fryers.
The KFC / A&W Combo in Sioux Falls makes more sense... but sadly their management is equally as troubled. If they could only figure out what a degreaser is I wouldn't feel like I am risking my life every time I walk (slide) across the floor.
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\"It hasn't been fun coming into the office everyday.\" Oh, the poor babies at KFC. I don't give a damn about their workday. What are they going to do about this? There are people out there getting ripped off by YOUR mistake. Don't tell me about YOUR problems.
There are now laws preventing anyone handling credit card data from storing or transmitting data without meeting various standards. I'm sure the FTC is on it.... I doubt seriously the store resent the data. It has to be the processor. If it is them, how would they just process the data for one site 'again'. I suspect there will be others....
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I'm sure they're taking it very seriously.
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I had a similar situation happen with an airport parking lot. I had no idea I had been double billed--for three months--until the parking lot called me to tell me that their POS card reader had been having issues for quite some time. They then went through each transaction while I was on the phone with them. Since I could look at my credit card and bank statements online we were able to find all instances of double billing, for which I was promptly credited and offered an apology. They assured me they had changed their card processing company (I wonder if this KFC uses the same one?) and that the problem would not reoccur.
That's how you handle a situation like this. I imagine the KFC is a bit higher volume and won't be able to manage it quite that well. And yes, I still park with them.
@oldwiz: Nope, I still use them. They caught the error before I did and made it right. For that they deserve a second chance.
The real issue will be checks that were written and are now NSF because of the false billing. It's against the law to write a check if there are insufficient funds to cover the check. Every customer who was falsely billed, should be paid an additional $30 for the inconvenience.
I was personally affected by this error. However, I don't see any Watertown KFC charges in my account history from April or later, until the two incorrect charges from last week. Might this include some transactions that weren't processed correctly the first time, that were then accidentally reprocessed twice?
@staque: In addition, when I spoke to my bank, they said that entities (in this case KFC, or, presumably, its processor) have 120 days to collect on their transactions following the POS preauthorization. If the processor failed to collect on the original transaction within that 120 day window, one would think the original transaction is effectively void, leaving the processor on the hook to reimburse KFC.
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So it's the double down, right?
@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: Only if the dollars and cents are both 10.
@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: +1