@staque: In addition, when I spoke to my bank, they said that entities (in this case KFC, or, presumably, its processor) have 120 days to collect on their transactions following the POS preauthorization. If the processor failed to collect on the original transaction within that 120 day window, one would think the original transaction is effectively void, leaving the processor on the hook to reimburse KFC.

I was personally affected by this error. However, I don't see any Watertown KFC charges in my account history from April or later, until the two incorrect charges from last week. Might this include some transactions that weren't processed correctly the first time, that were then accidentally reprocessed twice?

It is when they are the ones clearly responsible and have already acknowledged it. A refusal to do anything about it would make it fraud.

If you wrote a check you didn't know was bad, then when you were told about it, you then refused to take care of it. Seriously, don't you think you would be charged with fraud?

The Dean: I thought you had a degree from Columbia.
Jeff: Yes, and now I need to get one from America.

[www.tvfanatic.com]

@W10002:
God Damnit, pirate jokes are NEVER funny.

The real issue will be checks that were written and are now NSF because of the false billing. It's against the law to write a check if there are insufficient funds to cover the check. Every customer who was falsely billed, should be paid an additional $30 for the inconvenience.

That's how you handle a situation like this. I imagine the KFC is a bit higher volume and won't be able to manage it quite that well. And yes, I still park with them.

I'm sure they're taking it very seriously.

@tbax929 is rooting for a Phillies repeat: It would be awesome if the forums could just auto-reply with this to everyone who asks a variant of, "Why does anyone do X?"

@bohemian: That goes without saying. Anyone who would make the business decision to mix a KFC with a LJ's is clearly mentally troubled, and I don't even want to think about the flavors emminating from their deep fat fryers.

The KFC / A&W Combo in Sioux Falls makes more sense... but sadly their management is equally as troubled. If they could only figure out what a degreaser is I wouldn't feel like I am risking my life every time I walk (slide) across the floor.

@GitEmSteveDave: #RosaRocks:

Yea, its just data on a hard drive, my POS has all transactions since day 1. I can find how many ice teas in sold for any timeframe and which server sold it and how the tea was paid for.

@Skaperen:

How does your system take tips into account at a sit down restaurant where you paid after you've eaten? Usually at a full service restaurant the server does these things,
1: gives you the bill. 2: you take out a credit card as payment. 3: server takes your card and runs it for the amount on the bill, then returns it to you. 4: you write in a tip amount, take your copy and leave restaurant. 5: server comes back and picks up restaurant copy, see's tip amount, goes to POS, puts in that amount.
Since the card is no longer available how would the tip get credited properly?

@Areyouagoodlittleconsumer:
I'm looking for where I said they shouldn't take any blame but alas I have yet to find it. In cases like these the franchisee or business has to rely on the processor to fix it as they have the data.

From your response I can only assume that either you have incomplete or inaccurate knowledge of how it works or you'd simply rather bash people and make inaacurate statements then contribute meaningful and productive conversation. Based on your previous posts, I'd guess the latter.

@Skaperen:

Uh, these errors happen on the processors side and not the banks or at the POS. Your "system" would have no effect on this.

You may want to do a bit more research on how POS credit/debit transaction systems work.

We need a system where it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to be charged more than the customer allows, and only as often as the customer allows.

One way to do it (in a system I designed) involves a smart card with a display and keypad. The card gets an optical signal from the cash register and displays the amount requested. The customer enters the security authorization at the level they prefer (stupid people can choose to leave it insecure while smart people might use a long security code that changes daily ... the important thing is you get to choose your security level preference if you use a bank smart enough to provide it). The card generates a transaction authorization based on the timestamp, merchant ID, account reference number, and amount. The transaction authorization code is then sent to the cash register over the same optical link (all this happens within a second or less). The cash register can then verify if the request is valid through merchant services connecting with the bank. Or the business can elect to trust the customer and not verify it.

A transaction code has meaning only for one exact transaction, between two exact parties, for one exact amount, at one time. A 2nd transaction would need to be generated to do a 2nd charge, and the smart card holder will have required re-entering the code for a 2nd transaction (banks may choose to require this to avoid risks of customers getting multiple charges).

I also have designed an internet equivalent for this which is slightly more complicated, replacing the card with bank access using a special device plugged into the computer (potentially the very same card with a USB port).

Obviously the highest probability is that it's some sort of stupid mistake... a backup of just the charges (and not their settlements) was restored, perhaps, and the system proceeded to do what it's designed to do and settle the charges.

If YUM or the payment processor get moving quickly with documentation to the various financial institutions, most of the charges will probably be reversed at no charge to either party. If they don't, shame them mercilessly.

This is actually fairly common but usually only happens on a smaller scale and they are typically resolved by by the processing company fairly quickly.

Also, a few facts since it seems most people don't understand how restaurants (and business in general) use third party vendors to handle credit/debit transactions....

1. This isn't YUM or "KFC" itself. It's probably a franchise location.
2. This is the fault of a processing company, not the franchsiee or "YUM"(KFC).

Businesses pay these processing companies either a fixed fee per transaction or a percentage for every instance a customer uses a card. For example if you go to buy a 99 cent item at McDonalds and pay with a card, that store or franchise probably has to pay 5 cents or whatever to the processing company.

Also, To whomever suggested class action lawsuit, that's idiotic.

@knightracer: how much KFC must you be buying to make a 1.50 transaction fee worthwhile?

/facepalm

It's not fraud. If someone does not accept financial responsibility for a mistake that is not an admission that the "mistake" was intentional. The proper recourse is to sue them in small claims court.

Unless your desired outcome is to have a bunch of people laugh at you - in that case you should try to have them charged with fraud.

@temporaryscars: It's not KFC that did it. It's the fault of whatever processing company the franchisee is using.....

Sounds like they're copying gym membership's billing departments, Comcast's billing department and AT&T's etc.

Get over your credit cards are evil and I'll run up debt if I use one attitude. They put an important layer of protection between the merchants and YOUR money. If something gets screwed up your mortgage is still payed because the credit card absorbed the transaction and carries it until its straightened out. Clark Howard refers to these as "Piece of trash fake Visa or Mastercard" for a REASON!

If you're one of those "regular customers" then I think you've got bigger problems than $300-$400 in accidental charges...

@sbcpunkrocker:
Because they can, and you don't get to tell everyone else what to do. What would you suggest? A credit card?

Maybe it's the customers' fault for using debit cards.

@temporaryscars:
What??? This makes no sense.

Yes the POS can save all transactions, usually there is a backend server that handles the database. On my POS it is possible the run the credit card batches again thru the backend server but it's not easy to do.

@sbcpunkrocker: Are you the customer in front of me still whipping out your checkbook and having to write half your biography on the front of the check?

but this story sounds more like they were billed once in april, then billed a second time last week. And i think GitEmSteveDave_thinks gStein needs a star too is right, it's a problem with the payments processor, not the KFC franchise or YUM!

I have herd that isnt too rare anymore to overcharge or double bill people using debit cards at fast food places. This is the 2nd story in a week about it.

First from my mom talking about some chat she and a friend had to a manager at sonic, that the one near me overcharges people on debit cards and the manager they spoke to knows about it. Now KFC.

This just proves that everyone should keep every receipt and check their bills before paying it to make sure each item is correct.

Wow.. I could see this being a huge disaster for some people.

Is YUM Co going to pay all the fees and things from people's checks bouncing? I can assume that the banks might be willing to wave their fees, but usually the company you write the check to has a fee as well. I wouldn't imagine that ALL of these companies would be willing to wave fees because of something like this.

Do I smell a class action suit in the future?

Chuck Harmer wrote that lovely article. OMG, the errors!

Now, try to tell a broadcast folk about things like attribution and editorializing and your head will probably explode.

- Print Journalist

Way to go, KFC.