In mid-July, I sold a BlackBerry Pearl 8100 and a White MacBook with a fresh Leopard install on eBay. All was fine. Then in August, both buyers disputed in PayPal, for non-legitimate reasons. The phone guy disputed because he said it took too long to ship, but he had agreed to a longer ship time since he was from Indonesia and bought the phone even though I said US buyers only. The delay was because I had to go to the post office during the day to fill out the customs form, and I was busy studying for the NY bar and so it took me about a week to get to the post office. He dropped the claim when he received the phone and all was well. The girl who bought the MacBook disputed because of buyer's remorse, and lied and said that it had Tiger installed instead of Leopard, which it didn't. I mailed her a leopard disc and she dropped that dispute as well.
Lo and behold, PayPal decides to restrict my account because of "suspicious activity" so I can't use it. Fine, I understand selling to Indonesia and two disputes in a week seems sketchy. So I complete the steps in the Resolution Center to remove the limitation. But it's not lifted. I try calling, several times, and no one seems to be able to tell me why the system hasn't lifted the restriction. I send tons of emails to customer support, all of which are responded to by telling me that to resolve a limitation, I should complete the steps listed in the resolution center. Awesome, I love robots. I wait a week, and try calling again, nothing. Finally, at the end of September, I launch an EECB to all the addresses listed here on Consumerist for PayPal. I hear nothing, not one response. I try that again a week later, rewriting the email in case there are some kind of filters to delete repeat email. Again, nothing.
I called again, and spoke with a young man who told me that PayPal has "linked" my account to some other account (with a completely different email that he won't tell me what it is) that has a negative balance and until that balance is resolved, I can't have my account back. I ask him how much the balance is, but he won't tell me. He gave me absolutely no way of working out the problem so I can have my account back. He tells me he will send an email with details. I receive the email several hours later, but it of course has no actual details, and is a regurgitation of what the guy on the phone said.
So, here I am, with $24 in my account that I can't access (doesn't sound like much, but it is a week's worth of groceries for a future attorney who doesn't yet know whether she passed the bar and can begin her life's work of human rights law - no jokes please! ;)), and a PayPal Buyer Credit account that I can't use but of course can still make payments on, with no course of action or guidance whatsoever from PayPal. All I want is the restriction lifted, or at least something I can do to resolve this mess and close my account.
Does anyone have any other advice on what Jessica can do to get her money back?
]]>@LightningUsagi: +3 Ebay and Paypal jumped the shark by not allowing feedback by the seller on the buyer so buyers could rampently rip off buyers and it not be reflected. Ebay even spanked some sellers who put bad feedback text under positive buyer reviews. To many it seems like Ebay is trying to get an Amazon type model going- screw the little single seller and feed the big corporations...
RIP Ebay and Paypal
]]>Bill B
"There's a special place in Hell for bankers."
Like right now I'm actually waiting for something I know is going to take a while to ship (preorder) and may not arrive before the 45-day cutoff, but I'm starting a dispute on day 44 even though I have no reason to believe it will be a problem because if I don't I'm completely out of luck if there is. Sucks for the seller but I don't really have an alternative (and I gave them a heads-up that I'd be doing it before I bought).
Seems like they won't help either buyers -OR- sellers. I agree they need to be regulated, either that or some competition -- the only reason I haven't dropped them completely is that there aren't many alternatives.
]]>Those idiot trained monkeys are only able to read their screen and see "negative balance", they literally could not understand what the problem was. Fortunately I had gotten all my money out so I just abandoned the account.
]]>No to blame the OP, but selling software without the physical media is potentially illegal. Shipping installed software on a computer without somehow releasing your license to the new owner can get you in real trouble if you are not careful.
]]>Customer service was useless. I tried a few times and just got the runaround and ignored.
So I wrote a brief letter to general counsel outlining my complaint. It wasn't long before they gave me my money. I think this is a worthy companion to the EECB; for issues where the company is clearly in the wrong, general counsel is usually quite quick to pick up on it and make sure the company does right.
I've since made this my regular habit, I'm not interested in escalating things with customer service, or wasting time with customer service. If I'm denied something I'm entitled to, I end the call, then mail off a letter to the company's legal dept. Works well!
]]>PayPal is regulated by the Electronic Funds Transfer Act.
They are not allowed to withhold your money without any recourse or explanation.
]]>You live in NY State. I also live in NY State. There is this guy in the AG's office named Andrew Cuomo who loves to eat these guys for lunch, breakfast AND dinner.
Once I got back into selling, I found out that Craigslist, despite its hassles, is much better. One small investment in a counterfeit pen and I had nothing to worry about.
As to the OP and some of the comments - it's hardly worth the small claims filing fee to fight for $24. Personally, I'd just give up and let it slide, as the amount of fight it would take wouldn't be worth my time. (Yes, I know it's wrong for them to take the money, but my personal cost-benefit analysis would fall on the side of forgetting about it.)
But there are definitely a couple of things to worry about in doing it my way. One is they may send the balance to collections. The other is that they probably have lots of her credit card and bank account info. They may just try to take the money out of her accounts. Obviously that wouldn't be good.
]]>Their behavior certainly borders on racketeering.
That being said, this picture of PayPal President Scott Thompson shows a guy with a sort of "Ken Lay" look. Either completely oblivious or maybe completely complicit. Hard to say.
]]>Who told you that? Generally speaking, if the corporation does business in a given state, jurisdiction over the entity is proper. For Paypal, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's all 50.
]]>eBay sucks. That being said, here are a couple eBay and PayPal numbers:
e-Bay, Inc.
408-376-7400
Toll Free: 800-322-9266
And another one: 888-749-3229
PayPal
1-888-221-1161
or 402-935-2050
Good Luck...
]]>Here's my Paypal horror story and the reason I no longer have an account... I sold an item around 2002 and the buyer paid for priority shipping in the hopes that the item would get to him by the weekend. (It was a gaming set that hadn't been released to the general public yet, and he wanted it to show off at his next gaming event.) However, he didn't pay me until the middle of the week, so it didn't arrive in time. He left me a positive saying it had arrived and he was happy, but a week later, he filed a claim with Paypal saying he'd never received it. I had already pulled the funds out of my account, so my account went into the red and I couldn't use the account unless I funded the deficit, which I refused to do. Paypal ignored all evidence that I had that he had received it, including tracking number, and the signature confirmation from the post office. They ended up siding with him after months of me mailing and faxing and calling them. And when I tried to file a police report against the buyer for mail fraud, I hit roadblocks with the police as well.
My account has stayed frozen with a negative balance since that time, and I can't attach my email address or bank account to another account. I'm happier that way. I use my husband's account occasionally, but if there is another payment method offered, I use that without hesitation.
]]>Paypal lost my business, meh, no great problem on my part I say. They just lost more business and a very vocal person who tells everyone NOT to use paypal. Nothing worse for a business than bad word of mouth
]]>That's just that part of it.
The fees blew me out of the water.
]]>DO NOT SELL PHONES ON EBAY!
That's if you're expecting an immediate payment of course.
Awhile ago I sold two iPhone 3Gs on eBay for $1600, both phones sold for $800. Each time, the buyers decided not to leave feedback, so payment does not come in unless shipment is verified or 21 days pass. Both times you would have to wait for Paypal to verify the claims that it shipped (even though you give the rep the tracking number over the phone, so that's 3 days, plus an additional 4-5 days for the money to clear to your account. You end up shipping the items to wherever the destination is at your own expense!
Terrible all around. Just terrible.
]]>@PLATTWORX: This is actually more common now than it used to be due to the fact that sellers can't leave negative feedback for buyers. More buyers are getting refunds or freebies from sellers knowing that they can't do anything to warn other users. And sellers are giving in to keep from getting negatives.
]]>Plattworx: As far as the comment about looking at the original OP - that was uncalled for. I had a wonderful '100% positive feedback' account with eBay and Paypal for almost 10 years until PP finally got around to screwing me. PP regularly screws their honest above-board customers. You are lucky that it hasn't happened to you.
We need a Federal investigation into PP, that's for sure. They screw people in so many ways and have made the news for same in so many ways I'm surprised the Feds haven't stepped in.
]]>They denied all of my appeals.
I contacted the district attorneys office in Santa Clara, CA as well as the CA Department of Financial Institutions. I also sent a copy of all of this to their CEO at the time.
I got an apology and my money released very shortly after doing all of this. They are not a bank but they do answer to some authorities.
Also, at the time they kept telling me that their user agreement gave them the authority to hold my money. Nothing tripped up their reps more then telling them that you read the agreement and have a copy in front of you. Not a single one could point to the section that gave them the right to hold my money for what they considered suspicious activity.
]]>The eBay/PayPal organization is inherently evil. Their black souls exist only to find joy in inflicting pain on others... Use them only as a last resort. Which unfortunately happens from time to time, since there realistically aren't good alternatives when you need such a service.
]]>I'd also say...if you are going to sell electronics, spell "US only". Dealing with these scam artists from other countries that know all the shifty ins and outs of money grams, check fraud, etc. just isn't worth the risk.
]]>I am not a fan of PP. I would rather just not buy on Etsy or Ebay than use them.
Take them to small claims court if you can.
]]>I do not however keep a balance on my paypal account, I only use it for buying anyways, I have never had much luck selling anything on ebay, mostly phones, so I stopped trying to sell them, and turn them in at my local fire station who collects old phones for 911 service for battered woman.
]]>If you need to use PP for some reason, open a separate account and only keep the amount you need for your PP transactions in it, and not a dollar more. Then if there's a problem, they'll freeze that account instead of your primary.
]]>Second, no response to an EECB? Looks as though PayPal/eBay has figured out ways to filter those, too. Anyone have any ideas on modifying tactics to get around that? I'm wondering if sending individual emails, at different times, to different executives, and with slightly-different subject lines and maybe even slightly-different message bodies, might be in order. Or maybe something else?
Third, I may complain about lawyers; nevertheless, best of luck to the OP on taking the bar exam.
]]>@phate:It's sort of amazing that PayPal is allowed to have all of the benefits of a bank, without any of the regulations imposed on actual banks.
And this example illustrates very neatly exactly why banks are regulated; if they could dick around with their customers' money as they saw fit, which PayPal *is* allowed to do, they could make a fortune in interest simply holding it as long as possible for whatever stupid reason, which again, PayPal is apparently free to do.
It's legalized stealing, and it's made even more blatant when folks do as you suggest in walking away. In those cases (and from the looks of it there have been many), not only do they earn un-deserved interest, but they also gain the un-redeemed principal as well. It's probably the most luctrative scam on the intarwebs.
]]>When I had a paypal account breech problem, I started at the top of the phone list there in the executive dept and worked my way on down.
Things I did:
1. Filed a police report documenting the theft of cash out of my paypal bank account.
2. Filed a report with the FBI's Internet Crime Center.
[www.ic3.gov]
3. Called every executive number and taped each conversation, while telling them the call was taped and listening to them hang up or refuse to answer the questions.
4. Called Atty. General of Nebraska about fraud in Paypal.
Just keep working those phone and threaten to sue them for fraud in small Claims for the state allowed max. If they stonewall, off goes the certified letter.
]]>I used to sell and buy regularly by Ebay, but every since these rules have gone into effect, buyers have felt free to take exception for every trivial reason imaginable- and some are downright dishonest about it. All consequence free.
Ebay is broken, plain and simple.
]]>Unfortunately, if you want to use eBay, you don't have much of a choice, unless you want to be waiting on checks from the buyers, most of whom are unwilling to do that in the first place.
I highly recommend opening a checking account solely for the purpose of Paypal. I don't do much buying on eBay, mostly selling, so the funds go through Paypal, to my separate checking account with my credit union. I log in to the CU's website and transfer the funds once they're in there to my regular checking account.
The reason being is that if your Paypal account is compromised, and it sounds like that's the case here, your CASH is not compromised. Do not ever, under any circumstances, trust Paypal. They are most certainly not your pal.
As far as advice, go with phate's option. Small claims court is the only place you're bound to get anywhere with Paypal, save for showing up at their door demanding answers.
eBay Park North
2211 North First Street
San Jose, CA 95131
but don't do what this guy did
[cbs5.com]
1. Paypal should have long ago been deemed a bank and then regulated by the FDIC so they would have to follow banking laws. Instead, most consumers assume they are a bank of some sort when they are not. They craft their own "laws" screwing consumers left and right.
2. That said, I have sold on eBay in volume for years and know many others who have too. To have "two recently disputed sales" is very unusual. Why do I sense the OP is not entirely innocent here?
]]>Or, you could use Google Finance or Hoovers (or a similar service) to try and dig up someone's number at corporate - a direct line. Ask them how you're supposed to pay the balance if you can't even see it.
Here's wishing you success on the bar...
Once you pass that, take them to court.
]]>1) consider it a lost cause and walk away
2) Use your newfound lawyerly knowledge and sue them in small claims court.
Paypal is notorious for farking up and screwing customers in their benefit. And since they aren't a bank, but a service you can't beat them upside the head with banking laws.
]]>1} Never sell mobile phones on ebay. The last mobile phone I sold I did through Craigslist and the transaction went perfectly smooth.
2) Paypal is one the most horrible companies around. I do only small transactions on ebay now and pay with checks. I refuse to give Paypal any more of my business after they dicked me around regarding an account too.
]]>I'd suggest cutting your losses and moving on.
]]>