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NO....deal fell thru.....
NO....deal fell thru.....
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Very sorry to see them go. I've had a Saturn since 2001 and it's been one of the most trouble-free cars I've ever owned.
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@redskull: Really hit and miss with 'em. I work at a used car lot for my 2nd job and we get our share of Saturns from the auctions. Two observations.
1. Saturns are really, really finicky about maintenace being kept up. This includes things like armor-all on door window seals (once the seals crack the internal door electronics don't last long).
2. I don't see really high mileage Saturns. Don't know if that's 'cause we don't bid on them or people crush them over thier foreheads at 175,000 miles or so and grab another one from the fridge.
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@redskull: I've loved both of mine. I bought a new SL2 in 1996 which I drove without problems until 2005, when I bought a 2005 AWD V6 VUE. My VUE is the one with the Honda engine. I've been very happy with Saturn.
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@redskull: I'm glad you had a good experience. I've owned 3, the last one killed the deal for me. It was an '02 Vue with the 2.2L ecotec engine. Timing chain went on it, like the L-series (Which finally had a recall) It had the same exact timing chain nozzle problem but Saturn refused to help me with the repair. I even said I'd pay for the new engine to be installed if they would put the updated nozzle on it for free to avoid the new engine having the same issue in the future.
The pretty much told me to suck it. I was talking to a representative at the NHTSA for a while during the investigation to recall my car as well. WTF Saturn.
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@redskull: Must be hit or miss. I have several friends who have owned Saturns and have had nothing but trouble with them, from $350 tail light circuit boards failing to random times where the car just would not start. I would never feel safe in one so I wouldn't purchase it. It would probably be a good car for a college student granted they are close to home, don't do a lot of driving in heavy traffic, and have a cellphone with them.
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@citking: I'm on my third Saturn. The first one was a bit of a lemon but survived for 8 years. The second one I drove for six years and it was just fine - only body damage - when I traded it in for a used 2004 VUE. That one is still doing just fine now, too. The customer service has always been superb and that's been a big part of the appeal for me. I'll miss that experience.
Maybe we can afford that Outlook! :D
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the first saturn cars were a little small for me.
but i think i like them now. sad to see them go.
In Soviet Russia, Saturn buys you!
Seriously, if you're bargain-shopping, buying from a going-out-of-business brand is nothing new. Unlike when Daewoo went down, at least you have the GM dealer network behind your Saturn purchase.
@Buckus:
Just as a small poin...Daewoo really just got rolled into GM. The Chevy Aveo is actually a Daewoo product with Chevorlet badges.
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@skylndrftr: I'd read a while back the GM made it almost impossible to obtain replacement parts for Daewoo cars, perhaps less of an issue since most Saturns are rebadged Opels, but makes me kind of wary...
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I wouldn't consider it a good time to buy a Saturn even if I were being forced do so at gunpoint.
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@JohnQPublic:
Ok.... So don't buy one. You've managed to add nothing to the actual discussion, though.
@tbax929 is just plain tbax929: In replying to JohnQPublic you have managed to also add nothing to the discussion. Wait, now I've done it too!
Considering 95 percent of the Saturn parts are the same as the Chevy and Buick versions, why not save some money on a long term vehicle? Most comparable vehicles work out even in the end money-wise (adding initial cost with average repair costs for that model/brand). This might actually save you a bit more since the repair costs will remain static but the initial cost is dropping like a rock to move them out the door.
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$1000? I negotiated about $2000 off the sticker price of my Honda Civic. Nut up and wear the salesman down.
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@DH405:
I was going to say...I talked the salesman down 1k on my Elantra, and that was on TOP of $1500 cash back they were doing at the time.
@Saboth: I looked at the Elantra when they were doing that, but the salesmen for the Hyundai dealerships around Oklahoma were all super-sleazy, so I spung for the Honda. How's the Elantra working out for you?
Hmm, Mom wants to get a Sky or a Pontiac Solstice. Considering they're killing both brands, it might not be a bad time to go shopping.
@thereij: We've always had Pontiacs (Bonnevilles and Grand Ams) in my family and they've never given us trouble. I'm sorry to see the brand go.
@lmarconi: The nagging hallmark of a Pontiac is electrical problems.
I love my G6 convertible, but the dash light behind the heating knob burned out after 18 months.
As for the Sky and Solstice. Nice engines, terrible, terrible design up front. The thing doesn't even have a usable cup holder. Think long and hard before buying a two seater.
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@lmarconi: we were a pontiac family as well, but our last was the 97 widetrack grand prix (which was a wicked fast car).
i can't say i'm too sad to see them go. a friend of mine has a 2004 grand am - even minor DIY repairs are impossible, like changing the oil or replacing spark plugs. hell, we changed out her headlights the other day & it took 3 people & over an hour. the headlights on my toyota take all of 10 minutes (& no tools) to replace.
i guess if you don't do anything yourself it doesn't matter, but when shops are charging $150 to replace 6 $5 spark plugs, $30 wires, a $10 air filter & a $2 PCV, i'll do it myself, thanks.
@thereij: realistically, she should be fine. opel is still in production & the sky, solstice & the opel GT are all sister cars.
the sky is almost identical to the GT, so i would probably lean in that direction - mouldings for the solstice may be difficult to get in the future, which will probably make any body repairs incredibly expensive, but under the hood, they're all essentially using the same parts.
Saturn isn't going away despite what GM says. Granted, they may no longer own them and they're going to be scaled down, but they aren't going anywhere.
where would they be going?
I'm sorry the deal between Penske and GM fell through. GM's management shot themselves in the foot (feet?) when they muddied up the details regarding spare parts manufacturing.
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I'd love a Vue Hybrid - since Honda seems too damn blind to adding a hybrid Element option - which you'd think would be fairly simply considering it's already on a Civic platform.
Morons.
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@sybann: Blech. The Element is an abonimation. It looks like they tried to cash in on the Scion xB design, but turned it into a bloated slab of plastic.
@downwithmonstercable: I know it looks like a shoe box but it's MAD useful in design. I love mine. So do the dogs - and the home improvement stores.
And redqueenmeg: They make a Vue Hybrid but not an Element yet or I'd buy one!
Saab has made a profit before, so I can understand someone buying Saab to \"re-Saabify\" the brand (please no future Trailblazer or Subaru models). Saturn NEVER made a profit. Not that they are crap cars, i'm just saying that if they couldn't make a profit in a good economy then.....
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ahhh just like circuit city, jack the price up then offer a small discount and make a ton of money.
it's not a liquidator selling Saturns off, it's GM...hmm. I see your point...
I would not do it due to parts issues. Even my 98 Ram has gotten to the point where the dealer no longer carries many parts.
@SarcasticDwarf: car-parts.com. You own a Dodge, so there should be plentiful supplies in junkyards by now.
@SarcasticDwarf: Spare Saturns are everywhere. Here in upstate NY there is a place called Vince's U-pull-it... OMG the dirt cheap prices. Go in with your tools, pull it yourself... save a ton of money.
We just got an alternator for our 97 F150 for $12, did the work ourselves.
@SarcasticDwarf:
Wrong. Saturn parts are interchangeable with most GM models. There are plenty of parts to be had.
Of all the GM brands, Saturn is the only one I ever considered buying. Why not get rid of the ugly stuff like Buick and Cadillac?
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@Ihaveasmartpuppy: Buick is going to be around for a long time because the fact of the matter is that there are more Buicks being sold in China than in the U.S.
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@Ihaveasmartpuppy: I agree with you, Buick needs to die. And die fast.
Cadillac, though, is GM's luxury brand. Getting rid of that would be insane. Not to mention you'd have a similiar outcry if you tried to get rid of the Corvette. Its an American staple and I believe Cadillac actually makes money as a brand.
Maybe I'm naive, but why does GM still have multiple brands? Look at Honda and Toyota. They have their base brands (Honda/Toyota) and one other, their luxury versions (Acura/Lexus). Why not merge all your entire lineup into two brands: GM and Cadillac. Gotta save millions in just overhead and advertising for all those brands...
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@TuxthePenguin: Buick is huge in China which is an emerging market.
\"Buick's sizzling sales have driven General Motors - even as it closes plants and lays off workers at home - to the top of the pack in China, the world's fastest-growing automobile market. GM sold 665,000 cars and trucks in China last year. For now, only 1 in 100 Chinese own a car, compared to 9 in 10 in the United States. But the Chinese expect 130 million vehicles to be sold by 2020.\"
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@TuxthePenguin: Buick has to stay for GM because of the reputation of the nameplate in China. Pontiac actually outsold Buick in NA, but because of worldwide potential, Pontiac got the ax.
@TuxthePenguin: \"Maybe I'm naive, but why does GM still have multiple brands? Look at Honda and Toyota. They have their base brands (Honda/Toyota) and one other, their luxury versions (Acura/Lexus).\"
Well first off you missed Toyota's other brand, Scion.
Second you dont remember HOW GM got many of these brands. Many of the brands fields merged together, but originally where very different.
Chevy was cheap cars
Buick was mid-lux
Pontiac was racing/spots versions of Chevys
Caddie was full on Luxury
GNC was commercial trucks.
With Saturn being created to experiment on things they could then bring over to the other brands in terms of contracts and in-field production innovations as well as sales techniques.
The reason they never merged is up till the 70's there WAS no competition. Hell half these listed brands WHERE the competition, that GM ate up over the previous 60 years. It would honestly cost GM more now to kill all the brands down to 2 in terms of contracts and lawsuits than it would be to keep them going.
@Ihaveasmartpuppy: Because Saturns dealer network allowed them to kill it without nearly the hassle Buick would take, and Cadillac would never even be considered since they are GMs only Lux brand.
For what it is worth, anything good Saturn had is being moved to Buick, the new Lacrosse is what was supposed to replace the Saturn Aura, Buick got their own version of the Vue last year, and there are talks a modified 2011 Astra (the one they had planned as a world car) would show up as a compact Buick model.
@Falcon5768: Also, moving the Astra to Buick makes no sense. Not only was it price-uncompetitive due to the weak dollar, Chevrolet already has a new small car coming. If this is the new GM, they won't be watering down their brands with flavors that don't belong. Of course, only time will tell.
@Buckus: Excuse me it was the Outlook Buick got not the Vue, but the Astra you dont really understand what happened that made it fail.
1) The Astra as Saturn had it was a stop gate for the 2010 Astra, which was to be built in the US and would have been much more competitively priced. Coupled with GMs attempt to dump the last of its 4 speed autos, terrible engine choice from Europe, bringing over the Hatch and not the Sedan or Coup that Europe had, as well as insane requirement for onstar to be installed (thus eliminating the aux jack) caused it to loose much of what made it the second best selling car in the EU.
2) The Chevy small car Cruz is based on the SAME platform as the Ion/Astra/Cobalt/G5 etc. Just because it has the same platform doesn't mean its the same car, as you could easily see driving a Cobalt and a Astra, or even a cobalt and the Ion which was the eldest sibling on the platform.
3) Last I looked Brand rebadging works perfectly fine for VW/Honda/Ford and Toyota. The problem was GM had TOO MANY brands, not that they rebadged cars. Buicks are not Chevys and are certainly not Caddies. Buicks are on the same level as Lexus and Infiniti, semi-lux brands, they just have a old fogies image thanks to terrible GM marketing.
I just bought an Astra, brand \"new\" with 300 miles fully loaded for 7k off MSRP. I even got an automatic which seems to be really well suited for the engine. While it wont win any races, it moves as well as I need it to. The interior is the best interior I have ever seen in a GM car, even better than my GMC Acadia which sold for more than double the Astra.
What really killed the Astra was the inept marketing provided by GM. But I can't really blame them, when the bottom fell out on the dollar, they were losing money on every Astra they sold.
It's all good to me though, new car for a used car price and a nice 36k bumper to bumper and 100k powertrain warranty. The fact that I've never seen one on the road besides mine just adds a little warm and fuzzy to the whole deal.
Never thought I would recommend a GM small car beyond the Vibe, but this is a seriously nice car. Opel did a great job on it.
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@macros_1: I really wanted the Saturn Astra, but never test drove one. I have a family friend who works at a dealership, and I have an 04 Ion2. I love my car, even if when I got it, it wasn't my first choice. I've only had an issue with the ignition switch, and that was about $18. Before that my sister had whatever the economy sedan was in 97, she didn't care of the car, drove it into the ground - and it lasted 10 years.
Anyway, my friend said the Astra's, for the most part were lemons. At her dealership (southern california, in case it's a climate issue), they would come back all the time for major service. I still thought they were great looking cars, but honestly never saw them on the road. I still predominantly see Ion's and Vue's.
As for her dealership, she said the owners are likely going to bring in Kia or Subaru, she's hoping for the latter.
@Falcon5768: The Buick Vue is dead. As it should be. Equinox and Terrain are enough small-utes for GM.
I was thinking pre-GM...poor Saab must have felt like a bad child being dropped off at GM's house. \"what did I do wrong?\"
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I've had two Saturns (between me and my husband, we've had four). I will miss them! We can't afford a new one no matter what the deal is right now though.
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Actually , the Saturn warranty might be the strongest-backed of any nameplate that ever went out of business. It has received explicit backing from the U.S. Government.They really own GM now. So don't worry about warranty or parts. But DO go on the 'net and find out if there are any gotchas on any weird or quirky parts that are tough to find. Stock up if they are available.(Yes ,this will make the situation worse). BTW Saturn didn't die . It was killed. By dumbass management.
I love reading car talk!!
/to random thoughts.
wait, Lexus is near-luxury??????
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@michigan2cv: I believe they consider some of their \"lower tier\" cars to be \"near luxury\"...they actually use that language on their own website:
@Smashville_is a statue of limitations: Yep all of the Japanese lux brands consider themselves near-lux rather than full on Luxury like Caddie, Audi, BMW or Mercedes consider themselves to be.
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@Falcon5768: I wouldn't compare the Cadillac brand to any of the European luxury manufacturers. They might delude themselves into thinking they're equal, but they're no match.
@squinko - is pretending there's a star: I think you are deluding yourself into thinking you actually know what you are talking about.
YOU may not compare Euro Lux manufacturers to Cadillac, but car people do.
And not for nothing, but unless you are talking about a 7 series or the Mercedes equivalent or better. then you are talking about the european equivalent of a TAXI cab.
@squinko - is pretending there's a star: Seriously - I know people who think the Europeans shouldn't compare themselves to Lexus for quality. My aunt sold her Mercedes (that she picked up then shipped home from the plant!) and bought another Lexus because she said it was a superior auto.
I should have such problems.
Sounds like the real deals will be found in 2 years on used Saturns.
@macros_1: by inept you mean non-existant right?
No I will completely agree with you, I originally intended to buy an Astra myself, the 2 grand difference between a Astra and a Aura fully loaded was what swayed me to the Aura instead as was the fact I couldn't get a fully loaded Astra from my Saturn dealer like I wanted it optioned.
@Falcon5768:
I read somewhere that GM was using the internet as the only place it would advertise the Astra. Non-existent gives them too much credit on the advertising front.
I was actually looking for an used Aura, but everything I could find was a previous rental car with \"magical\" smells that weren't being used to cover up anything (at least according to the salesman).
Last tank of gas on my Astra, with the automatic mind you, I hit 32mpg. It really is a great car, I just really wish it had XM.
I once went into a Saturn dealership about 12 years ago. Once. Apparently, I was a member of the stupid, unwashed masses and did not know that they \"don't haggle\". This was actually advertised as a good thing; no stress and all. I knew about the car I was looking at and asked why the salesman thought the dealership should make a $3,500 profit on a $20k car, when other companies were desperate to make 1/3 of that.
What kind of feature is it to avoid haggling, but not reduce the MSRP?! Any dealership in the country is \"no haggle\" if you bend over and pay MSRP.
I want an Astra so bad :(
And this is why automobiles and Consumerist posters do not go well together...'GNC'? Not knowing the importance of Buick?
Saturn is/was a dog of a brand.
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wasn't Penske supposed to buy Saturn?
@MentallyRetired:
That has nothing to do with Buick in the US. Most of the cars are even different (or they were last I checked...they might be trying to harmonize things.)
Chevrolet outside North America sells a bunch of cars that never came out here, too. They're different operations. GM could kill Buick here and keep it running in China with little to no difficulty.
They wouldn't, though, because Buick is either one of GM's most profitable or least-unprofitable divisions in North America.
@gStein: Apparently, they weren't Penske material.
@gStein: Finally, Penske remove they offer, probably realizing that they would made money out of the deal.