Anyway, my friend said the Astra's, for the most part were lemons. At her dealership (southern california, in case it's a climate issue), they would come back all the time for major service. I still thought they were great looking cars, but honestly never saw them on the road. I still predominantly see Ion's and Vue's.

As for her dealership, she said the owners are likely going to bring in Kia or Subaru, she's hoping for the latter.

Saturn is/was a dog of a brand.

@Falcon5768:
I read somewhere that GM was using the internet as the only place it would advertise the Astra. Non-existent gives them too much credit on the advertising front.

I was actually looking for an used Aura, but everything I could find was a previous rental car with "magical" smells that weren't being used to cover up anything (at least according to the salesman).

Last tank of gas on my Astra, with the automatic mind you, I hit 32mpg. It really is a great car, I just really wish it had XM.

I love my G6 convertible, but the dash light behind the heating knob burned out after 18 months.

As for the Sky and Solstice. Nice engines, terrible, terrible design up front. The thing doesn't even have a usable cup holder. Think long and hard before buying a two seater.

@redskull: Really hit and miss with 'em. I work at a used car lot for my 2nd job and we get our share of Saturns from the auctions. Two observations.

1. Saturns are really, really finicky about maintenace being kept up. This includes things like armor-all on door window seals (once the seals crack the internal door electronics don't last long).

2. I don't see really high mileage Saturns. Don't know if that's 'cause we don't bid on them or people crush them over thier foreheads at 175,000 miles or so and grab another one from the fridge.

What kind of feature is it to avoid haggling, but not reduce the MSRP?! Any dealership in the country is "no haggle" if you bend over and pay MSRP.

YOU may not compare Euro Lux manufacturers to Cadillac, but car people do.

And not for nothing, but unless you are talking about a 7 series or the Mercedes equivalent or better. then you are talking about the european equivalent of a TAXI cab.

That has nothing to do with Buick in the US. Most of the cars are even different (or they were last I checked...they might be trying to harmonize things.)

Chevrolet outside North America sells a bunch of cars that never came out here, too. They're different operations. GM could kill Buick here and keep it running in China with little to no difficulty.

They wouldn't, though, because Buick is either one of GM's most profitable or least-unprofitable divisions in North America.

No I will completely agree with you, I originally intended to buy an Astra myself, the 2 grand difference between a Astra and a Aura fully loaded was what swayed me to the Aura instead as was the fact I couldn't get a fully loaded Astra from my Saturn dealer like I wanted it optioned.

@Falcon5768:

I just bought an Astra, brand "new" with 300 miles fully loaded for 7k off MSRP. I even got an automatic which seems to be really well suited for the engine. While it wont win any races, it moves as well as I need it to. The interior is the best interior I have ever seen in a GM car, even better than my GMC Acadia which sold for more than double the Astra.

What really killed the Astra was the inept marketing provided by GM. But I can't really blame them, when the bottom fell out on the dollar, they were losing money on every Astra they sold.

It's all good to me though, new car for a used car price and a nice 36k bumper to bumper and 100k powertrain warranty. The fact that I've never seen one on the road besides mine just adds a little warm and fuzzy to the whole deal.

Never thought I would recommend a GM small car beyond the Vibe, but this is a seriously nice car. Opel did a great job on it.

i can't say i'm too sad to see them go. a friend of mine has a 2004 grand am - even minor DIY repairs are impossible, like changing the oil or replacing spark plugs. hell, we changed out her headlights the other day & it took 3 people & over an hour. the headlights on my toyota take all of 10 minutes (& no tools) to replace.

i guess if you don't do anything yourself it doesn't matter, but when shops are charging $150 to replace 6 $5 spark plugs, $30 wires, a $10 air filter & a $2 PCV, i'll do it myself, thanks.

@TuxthePenguin: Toyota also has their "hip" brand (Scion). But it is a point well made.

@squinko - is pretending there's a star: Seriously - I know people who think the Europeans shouldn't compare themselves to Lexus for quality. My aunt sold her Mercedes (that she picked up then shipped home from the plant!) and bought another Lexus because she said it was a superior auto.

I should have such problems.

[www.msnbc.msn.com]

"Buick's sizzling sales have driven General Motors - even as it closes plants and lays off workers at home - to the top of the pack in China, the world's fastest-growing automobile market. GM sold 665,000 cars and trucks in China last year. For now, only 1 in 100 Chinese own a car, compared to 9 in 10 in the United States. But the Chinese expect 130 million vehicles to be sold by 2020."

@TuxthePenguin: Buick has to stay for GM because of the reputation of the nameplate in China. Pontiac actually outsold Buick in NA, but because of worldwide potential, Pontiac got the ax.

Sorry, had to be said.

@downwithmonstercable: I know it looks like a shoe box but it's MAD useful in design. I love mine. So do the dogs - and the home improvement stores.

And redqueenmeg: They make a Vue Hybrid but not an Element yet or I'd buy one!

Well first off you missed Toyota's other brand, Scion.

Second you dont remember HOW GM got many of these brands. Many of the brands fields merged together, but originally where very different.

Chevy was cheap cars
Buick was mid-lux
Pontiac was racing/spots versions of Chevys
Caddie was full on Luxury
GNC was commercial trucks.

With Saturn being created to experiment on things they could then bring over to the other brands in terms of contracts and in-field production innovations as well as sales techniques.

The reason they never merged is up till the 70's there WAS no competition. Hell half these listed brands WHERE the competition, that GM ate up over the previous 60 years. It would honestly cost GM more now to kill all the brands down to 2 in terms of contracts and lawsuits than it would be to keep them going.

@nstonep: I, too, would like to see your source for this.

@michigan2cv: I believe they consider some of their "lower tier" cars to be "near luxury"...they actually use that language on their own website:

[www.lexus.com]

wait, Lexus is near-luxury??????

@sybann: Blech. The Element is an abonimation. It looks like they tried to cash in on the Scion xB design, but turned it into a bloated slab of plastic.

I love reading car talk!!

/to random thoughts.

@SarcasticDwarf: Spare Saturns are everywhere. Here in upstate NY there is a place called Vince's U-pull-it... OMG the dirt cheap prices. Go in with your tools, pull it yourself... save a ton of money.

We just got an alternator for our 97 F150 for $12, did the work ourselves.

Cadillac, though, is GM's luxury brand. Getting rid of that would be insane. Not to mention you'd have a similiar outcry if you tried to get rid of the Corvette. Its an American staple and I believe Cadillac actually makes money as a brand.

Maybe I'm naive, but why does GM still have multiple brands? Look at Honda and Toyota. They have their base brands (Honda/Toyota) and one other, their luxury versions (Acura/Lexus). Why not merge all your entire lineup into two brands: GM and Cadillac. Gotta save millions in just overhead and advertising for all those brands...

@redskull: I'm glad you had a good experience. I've owned 3, the last one killed the deal for me. It was an '02 Vue with the 2.2L ecotec engine. Timing chain went on it, like the L-series (Which finally had a recall) It had the same exact timing chain nozzle problem but Saturn refused to help me with the repair. I even said I'd pay for the new engine to be installed if they would put the updated nozzle on it for free to avoid the new engine having the same issue in the future.

The pretty much told me to suck it. I was talking to a representative at the NHTSA for a while during the investigation to recall my car as well. WTF Saturn.

Considering 95 percent of the Saturn parts are the same as the Chevy and Buick versions, why not save some money on a long term vehicle? Most comparable vehicles work out even in the end money-wise (adding initial cost with average repair costs for that model/brand). This might actually save you a bit more since the repair costs will remain static but the initial cost is dropping like a rock to move them out the door.

1) The Astra as Saturn had it was a stop gate for the 2010 Astra, which was to be built in the US and would have been much more competitively priced. Coupled with GMs attempt to dump the last of its 4 speed autos, terrible engine choice from Europe, bringing over the Hatch and not the Sedan or Coup that Europe had, as well as insane requirement for onstar to be installed (thus eliminating the aux jack) caused it to loose much of what made it the second best selling car in the EU.

2) The Chevy small car Cruz is based on the SAME platform as the Ion/Astra/Cobalt/G5 etc. Just because it has the same platform doesn't mean its the same car, as you could easily see driving a Cobalt and a Astra, or even a cobalt and the Ion which was the eldest sibling on the platform.

3) Last I looked Brand rebadging works perfectly fine for VW/Honda/Ford and Toyota. The problem was GM had TOO MANY brands, not that they rebadged cars. Buicks are not Chevys and are certainly not Caddies. Buicks are on the same level as Lexus and Infiniti, semi-lux brands, they just have a old fogies image thanks to terrible GM marketing.

the sky is almost identical to the GT, so i would probably lean in that direction - mouldings for the solstice may be difficult to get in the future, which will probably make any body repairs incredibly expensive, but under the hood, they're all essentially using the same parts.

@Buckus:
Love my Equinox.

@SarcasticDwarf:
Wrong. Saturn parts are interchangeable with most GM models. There are plenty of parts to be had.

@JohnQPublic:
Ok.... So don't buy one. You've managed to add nothing to the actual discussion, though.

makes me a little sad b/c this would be the first real new competition in the american auto marketplace since what - the 40's?

@Falcon5768: Also, moving the Astra to Buick makes no sense. Not only was it price-uncompetitive due to the weak dollar, Chevrolet already has a new small car coming. If this is the new GM, they won't be watering down their brands with flavors that don't belong. Of course, only time will tell.

@Falcon5768: The Buick Vue is dead. As it should be. Equinox and Terrain are enough small-utes for GM.

For what it is worth, anything good Saturn had is being moved to Buick, the new Lacrosse is what was supposed to replace the Saturn Aura, Buick got their own version of the Vue last year, and there are talks a modified 2011 Astra (the one they had planned as a world car) would show up as a compact Buick model.

I was thinking pre-GM...poor Saab must have felt like a bad child being dropped off at GM's house. "what did I do wrong?"

it's not a liquidator selling Saturns off, it's GM...hmm. I see your point...

Saab has made a profit before, so I can understand someone buying Saab to "re-Saabify" the brand (please no future Trailblazer or Subaru models). Saturn NEVER made a profit. Not that they are crap cars, i'm just saying that if they couldn't make a profit in a good economy then.....

I'd love a Vue Hybrid - since Honda seems too damn blind to adding a hybrid Element option - which you'd think would be fairly simply considering it's already on a Civic platform.

Morons.

@nstonep:

Well, what evidence is there that anyone on earth is interested in buying them?

As a happy Saturn Vue owner, I really hope you are right. I love my Vue.

where would they be going?

I was going to say...I talked the salesman down 1k on my Elantra, and that was on TOP of $1500 cash back they were doing at the time.

Here's a link: GM to Kill Saturn - Jalopnik

@redskull: Well, that's the problem. How can a car company make money if cars don't break down?

In Soviet Russia, Saturn buys you!

Seriously, if you're bargain-shopping, buying from a going-out-of-business brand is nothing new. Unlike when Daewoo went down, at least you have the GM dealer network behind your Saturn purchase.

the first saturn cars were a little small for me.

but i think i like them now. sad to see them go.

Maybe we can afford that Outlook! :D

@citking: I'm on my third Saturn. The first one was a bit of a lemon but survived for 8 years. The second one I drove for six years and it was just fine - only body damage - when I traded it in for a used 2004 VUE. That one is still doing just fine now, too. The customer service has always been superb and that's been a big part of the appeal for me. I'll miss that experience.