var json_comments = new Array("
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GitEmSteveDave_IsWaving
October 6, 2009 3:46 PM
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I knew this would happen when Grissom and Saddle left CSI.

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3 replies
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GitEmSteveDave_IsWaving
October 6, 2009 5:04 PM
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@gStein: Sorry, with those teeth, she will always be \"Saddle\" to me.

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GitEmSteveDave_IsWaving
October 6, 2009 8:28 PM
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@morlo: As both a horse farmer AND teeth aficionado, so would I, so would I.

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madog
October 6, 2009 4:30 PM
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@GitEmSteveDave_IsWaving: Well, when people are leaving semen and DNA on every surface imaginable, it's understandable. I just hope they washed their hands before they ate.

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gggtur
October 6, 2009 3:47 PM
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Do they have enough casinos?

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2 replies
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lpranal
October 6, 2009 8:53 PM
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@gggtur: It never ceases to amaze me how many people deliberately hand over their money inside giant monuments built by the money of millions of idiots before them.

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Homerjay is utterly alone.
October 6, 2009 11:55 PM
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@lpranal: It's called \"entertainment.\" Sure, there are a lot of people with gambling problems but some of us are actually willing to spend that money for the entertainment value.

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nstonep
October 7, 2009 6:38 AM
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@Homerjay is utterly alone.: No...it's called intoxication. Trust me I live here...that's the condition.

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oblivious87
October 7, 2009 3:10 PM
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@Homerjay is utterly alone.: I totally agree with you. Living in Milwaukee, I can walk into the indian casino with $100, sit down at a blackjack table and stay there for 3-4 hours without going broke.

In the process, I drink (which I pay for) and talk to people and have fun. If I walk out with nothing, I had a few hours of good entertainment, and most of the time, I walk out with more then I came in with.

If I ever sit down at a table and am not having fun, I'll simply get up and go to another... if that doesn't work, I walk out.

It sure beats walking into a bar where I have to scream over loud music and worry about drunk frat boys trying to start a fight.

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Falcon5768
October 6, 2009 3:53 PM
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AC has hit the same roadblock except worse. All casinos that where planned to be built in AC prior to the downturn where canceled, leaving gaping holes in the ground where they where to be built

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2 replies
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Daveinva
October 6, 2009 8:59 PM
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@Falcon5768: Which is a real shame, as the Borgata showed how much of a demand there was for a modern casino in Atlantic City.

It's nowhere near as great as the best in Vegas, but good God, it's sooo much better than the 1970s knockoff Trumps. . .

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xamarshahx
October 6, 2009 5:28 PM
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@Falcon5768: Revel casino is still being built. MGM always has backed out of AC, the only one one that canceled was Pinnacle. Trump Taj, Harrahs, and Borgata all completed their expansions. Hilton canceled their expansion due to lack of cash. I think once the economy picks up, casinos like Borgata, Revel, and Tropicana are going to lead Atlantic City and will help bring in other investments.

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Chmeeee
October 6, 2009 3:55 PM
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You mean that the road with 17 of the 20 biggest hotels in the world doesn't need more and bigger hotels? Who would've thought?!?

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2 replies
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mythago
October 6, 2009 5:28 PM
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@Chmeeee: \"Need\" is not really a word applicable to Vegas.

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pecan 3.14159265
October 6, 2009 3:56 PM
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Las Vegas looks like such a disaster zone now, doesn't it? I was last there a few years back, before the downturn, and even then it all seemed so excessive that it was possible that sooner or later it would all collapse.

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2 replies
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nstonep
October 7, 2009 6:43 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Actually, a great portion of the hotels and casinos are owned by single companies. Those companies are: Harrah's, MGM (Mirage), and local casinos are mainly Station (which is near bankruptcy). Wynn also owns a couple casinos, and then you have the one-offs like Hooters, and Hard Rock.

So generally speaking, if the area is hurting it's these companies that are going to bear the brunt of the problem. And the main problem is the setup itself. It's essentially set up for drinking, strippers, gambling, and boinking strangers.

They need to find a way to draw family vacations here (obviously segmented from the other partition) which they haven't done or even thought about. Sure there's Circus Circus, Excalibur, and MGM which have some activities for families but no one wants to take their family to an area where they'll have to trip over drunken frat boys and box wine bitches.

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5thAveCocaine
October 6, 2009 6:51 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: You should see it now.. I was there 3 weeks ago, and there's 2 HUGE projects that have been abandoned on the strip. Cranes are still attached to one of the buildings.

Not to mention that it looks like a third-world bazaar covered in neon (or were those LED's?).

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Smashville
October 6, 2009 3:57 PM
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The Strip has 67,000 rooms and 183 casinos.


Forgive me if I have a hard time shedding tears.

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6 replies
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nstonep
October 7, 2009 6:46 AM
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@Smashville_not taking it seriously: They're including video poker joints (that's not a casino).

There are less than 50 major casinos but I haven't counted or checked. Then there's the local casinos (station, m, southpoint) which are actual casinos but generally in areas to service locals and driving visitors from california and arizona.

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kaceetheconsumer
October 7, 2009 12:39 AM
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@Smashville_not taking it seriously: And some events are still big enough to make it hard to get a room. At least, that was the case shortly before we left in 2008.

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indydrew
October 6, 2009 5:04 PM
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@Smashville_not taking it seriously:


Try 127,000 rooms, give or take a few, and around 30 casino/hotles. This is in the 4 mile area of Las Vegas BLVD known as \"the strip\".


[www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com]


This does not included more then 15,000 rooms set to go live in the next 2 years.

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squinko
October 6, 2009 4:30 PM
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@Smashville_can haz star???: 183 casinos? Really? It doesn't seem like there are that many on the Strip alone.

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tkmluv
October 6, 2009 4:37 PM
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@squinko: I live in Vegas and I think he might be counting everything on Las Vegas Blvd which stretches almost the whole valley (30+ miles) and not what is considered \"The Srip\"

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Quake 'n' Shake
October 6, 2009 3:58 PM
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Well there are certainly more than enough on the strip alone to keep all but those individuals with severe ADD entertained for a 2-3 night stay.

And, for no other reason than I can, I'd like to rant slightly:
Man, the Imperial Palace just hasn't been the same since Harrahs bought it from Ralph Engelstad's widow. Before Harrah's bought it, that place had the best happy hour on the strip. It's slowly been morphing into a low-rent Harrah's/Flamingo clone. On the plus side, after reading this article, it probably won't be torn down for something new anytime soon. I may think it's not \"as good\" as before, but I still like going there every time I'm in Vegas.

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1 replies
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squinko
October 6, 2009 4:31 PM
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@Quake 'n' Shake: The Imperial Palace's car museum is awesome.

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giggitygoo
October 6, 2009 4:00 PM
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Had to happen sometime. If nothing else, there's enough new hotels/expansions opening in the next 2 years to keep prices cheap. Gotta love all the Vegas deals out there.

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3 replies
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GuinevereRucker
October 6, 2009 8:52 PM
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@giggitygoo: The world would be a better place without Las Vegas...

Also, I can't believe that with all the money people give them they're still in debt. Sounds like everyone involved has poor money skills.

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nstonep
October 7, 2009 6:47 AM
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@GuinevereRucker: It's for a couple of reasons:
a)Comps.
b)Visitors make a mess of everything
c)Prices are low (overhead is high)

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xamarshahx
October 6, 2009 5:30 PM
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@giggitygoo: Southwest has buy one get one free on trips to Vegas.

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eaglearcher
October 6, 2009 4:02 PM
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The few times I go to Atlantic City for a few hours in the Casino, the place looks utterly depressing. There are people in the casino, but walking around the city, you can tell the city has seen better days.

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3 replies
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kc2gvx
October 6, 2009 4:10 PM
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@eaglearcher: Atlantic City will come back, she will just need a little more time. Revel is still building, and is on target for a late 2011 opening at the north end of the boardwalk, next to Showboat. I LOVE Vegas, I visit 2-3 times a year, but have lived within an hours drive to Atlantic City all my life. Atlantic City will make her triumphant return of the \"Vegas of the East\" eventually. First thing is to get rid of corrupt city officials (funny, I know), and get the Federal Government to allow sports betting, and she will be back.

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azntg
October 7, 2009 12:42 AM
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@kc2gvx: If AC ever does comes back, it'll be facing some stiff competition in Pennsylvania, New York and Connecticut.

Glory days where people from all 5 closest states drove in is long gone.

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eaglearcher
October 6, 2009 9:24 PM
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@kc2gvx:

You have to let it go man. Let it go.
/Pat the back

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citking
October 6, 2009 4:08 PM
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I'll be going to Vegas for New Years. The airfare and hotel prices are so cheap compared to our last visit. When I went about 2 years ago it was $680/person. Now we're looking at $475 at a hotel on the strip.

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4 replies
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The Porkchop Express
October 6, 2009 6:00 PM
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@citking: But what about the other things? outside of Vegas.


Is the Bunny Ranch lowering prices?

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Ratty
October 6, 2009 8:19 PM
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@The Porkchop Express: The Bunny Ranch is up by Carson. hell of a drive for a brothel.

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nstonep
October 7, 2009 6:48 AM
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@Ratty: Yeah only a person who's never actually been to nevada would say something so stupid. Reno is 4 hours away at least.

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squinko
October 6, 2009 4:31 PM
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@citking: Is the $475 airfare and hotel? If so, that's a great deal. Which hotel?

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FatLynn
October 6, 2009 4:08 PM
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Just got back from Vegas, and I couldn't believe how dead it was. Poker rooms had no tables over 5/10, and no cocktail waitresses anywhere. Clubs totally dead on a Thursday night. Prices for show tickets cut, cut, cut.

The problem with Vegas is that they are peddling fake luxury. Just embrace the fact that you are a cheesy desert outpost and build hotels that are priced accordingly.

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2 replies
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libbybee
October 6, 2009 4:09 PM
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@FatLynn: Same here, I just got back on Saturday after a week-long trip. I've only been once before but I remember a lot more bustle and extravagance the last time, and that's when I was at the Sahara, which is a trash heap compared to some of the newer hotels.

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asten77
October 6, 2009 7:29 PM
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@libbybee: I was there at the end of august.. It was fairly busy, but not overwhelmingly so. Clubs were somewhat lighter than most times.

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squinko
October 6, 2009 4:11 PM
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I'm glad to hear this. The last two times I went, the nice view I had from my room was obscured by construction. And just like the rest of the Strip, the construction never stops. No matter what time you are awake, you will always hear construction. Luckily I was far enough away for the noise to not bother me while I was sleeping, but I couldn't imagine how a light sleeper would fare. Also, it's already difficult enough to walk between the casinos without having huge parts of the sidewalk blocked off. I'm going back out again in December; let's hope they have most of this crap done by then.

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2 replies
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squinko
October 7, 2009 1:11 PM
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@Ratty: Hey! Don't steal my state's jokes!

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Skipweasel
October 6, 2009 4:11 PM
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I've never gambled, but for some years I did quite a lot of installations for Ladbrokes in the UK. There are few places as depressing as a gambling shop either in front or out the back.

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1 replies
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indydrew
October 6, 2009 5:20 PM
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@Skipweasel:


To compare gambling halls in the UK to the Las Vegas Strip is insane.


[www.encorelasvegas.com]


That is the last hotel I stayed at in Vegas.


Here is it's sister propriety, the only casino/resort in the world to be named Mobil 5 star, AAA 5 diamond and Michelin 5 red pavilion.


[www.wynnlasvegas.com]


There is nothing depressing about most strip hotels, most not all.

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mbz32190
October 6, 2009 4:34 PM
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Vegas is a \"dead-man walking\". The steep decline is only going to get worse...those buildings are not cheap to operate, and you can't really gamble if you have no money in the first place. Not to mention the whole desert and water shortages thing.

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1 replies
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squinko
October 6, 2009 6:51 PM
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@mbz32190: I agree with this somewhat. Vegas is experiencing a big growth spurt right now so a lot of the construction is warranted, but I think that a lot of people are over-projecting what people will want and are building way too much. They need to start scaling things down and build what is actually needed.

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Murph1908
October 6, 2009 4:40 PM
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I went to Vegas in September. The first time I went was in 1993. Back then, they had the $9 surf and turfs, $7 prime rib dinners, $1 beer and hotdog combo, and all the other gimmicks to get you into their casino.

Over the past several years, those perks were gone, replaced with overpriced hotels and restaurants.

In September, I started seeing the gimmicks again. Many casinos had girls dancing on tables and slot machine islands. I am getting great offers in the mail for packages. And the Excalibur had a $2 beer and hotdog combo. =)

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4 replies
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Mr.Duke
October 6, 2009 11:22 PM
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@Murph1908: the hotel rates are falling fast. ...

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Homerjay is utterly alone.
October 6, 2009 11:59 PM
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@Mr.Duke: I'm staying at Bellagio next month for $155/nt weekend.

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secret_curse
October 6, 2009 7:37 PM
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@Murph1908: I went right about January 1st of 2008 when things were still relatively booming and wasn't impressed at all. I thought the service was terrible everywhere, and in a city that's supposed to survive on service alone. I'd like to go back sometime early next year and see how different things are.

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carlos_the_dwarf
October 6, 2009 6:58 PM
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@Murph1908:

I was there in July. Bill's Gamblin' Hall still has $2 beer and hotdogs.

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PsiCop
October 6, 2009 4:42 PM
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Both of the Indian casinos here in Connecticut (Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods) have also run into roadblocks. The former terminated an expansion plan in the middle of the process, while the latter has run into financial difficulties due to subsidies it pays to tribe members, which apparently are bleeding off funds that had been intended to pay of the debt from their own expansions.

Both casinos are reporting drops in visitors and in gambling activity ... but curiously, room rates and the costs of incidentals in the casinos remain as high as they ever were. Hmm.

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Homerjay is utterly alone.
October 7, 2009 12:00 AM
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@PsiCop: My in-laws go there frequently where they continue to blow my wife's inheritance.

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zarex42
October 6, 2009 4:50 PM
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City Center is an amazing way to cap off the run of expansion. It's pretty much the biggest complex like this ever made.

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vq35de
October 6, 2009 4:53 PM
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More importantly, does this presage a round of contraction where marginal properties have an implosion date in their not-too-distant future?

I strongly suspect so, in order to reduce available supply to meet demand.

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edguitar
October 6, 2009 5:01 PM
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Customer loyalty? I'm imagining that board meeting.. How can we make our customers more addicted to gambling? ohh ooh ohh How about putting cocaine on their dirnks?

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indydrew
October 6, 2009 5:11 PM
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19 of the 25 largest hotels on earth are located within 4 miles of each other on Las Vegas Blvd, AKA \"The Strip\".


[www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com]


This does not include City Center, which is pictured in this story and goes live in December with 10,000 rooms, or Cosmopolitan, 3,000 rooms, or Fontainebleau, 4,000 rooms. All of which will join this list in the next year or two. The four mile area of \"the strip\" will contain 22, or 23 of the largest 25 hotels on earth in the next 2 years. Some place in Dubai will take a spot in the top 10. Regardless there will be close to 150,000 hotel rooms within 4 miles of each other, amazing.

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2 replies
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nstonep
October 7, 2009 6:52 AM
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@indydrew: City Center is nonsense...they don't have the money or financing to finish the damn project and keep phantom hiring people for future positions in hotels that aren't anywhere near finished. It's not \"GOING LIVE\" in December, it's nowhere near complete (it's 4 or 5 casinos/hotels)

What they need to build is a huge ass amusement park resort to bring families to the area (not the strip).

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indydrew
October 7, 2009 7:13 AM
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@nstonep:


[www.arialasvegas.com]


Your an idiot.


City Center is made up of 10,000 hotel/condo units. The condo units get sold as hotel rooms when the owner is not staying there.


City Center's main hotel Aria opens in December, all exterior work on the hotel is finished. They are putting the final touches on the property now. Workers are already hired and training on site, and at other hotels.


MGM has already secured financing to finish City Center.
The money issues were settled back in April
[abcnews.go.com]


You come on a website and spout shit you know nothing about.


Your an idiot.

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Trai_Dep
October 6, 2009 5:35 PM
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Damn it. I wanted a Godzilla-themed casino.

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1 replies
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theblackdog
October 6, 2009 6:01 PM
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Perhaps it's also because Las Vegas is scrambling to catch up with the city infrastructure to all of these places.

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JollyJumjuck
October 6, 2009 6:31 PM
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No Godzilla-shaped hotel? I was saving my pennies for my first trip to Vegas when they built that! Bah. Now I'm going to hold poker games in my basement, get some local hookers, and watch the fountain in the park.

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humphrmi
October 6, 2009 7:08 PM
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It's not really about how many rooms or casinos are on the strip or how long the strip is. Three years ago, it wasn't unheard of for far more than capacity crowds to converge upon Las Vegas, so they built more capacity to accommodate demand as it was at the time. The housing market failure was the perfect storm for Vegas - every sector that feeds revenue to Vegas lost wealth &/or income, from large conventions to pensioners, stopped going.

I'm sure the builders, at least, knew what was brewing with the housing market overheating. What they didn't expect, I think, was the impact that the failure of the housing market had on the overall economy. Certainly the casino owners who kept ordering more buildings didn't see it coming.

On top of that was the same mentality that fed the housing market boom itself. Casino owners became accustomed to huge, glitzy grand openings bringing in millions of dollars in revenue. They could grab that cash, and put off the payments by highly leveraging. So it didn't cost them anything out of their pockets to build yet-another-casino, but it would almost always bring them more revenue. So like everyone else, they only thought about the cash flow and not the debt, and now they have years of debt to pay off.

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nstonep
October 7, 2009 6:56 AM
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@humphrmi: They were expecting an influx of people due to the fact that the state tax is non-existent here. They forgot that wages are low and the population is highly transient (from the state). What they got was empty tract housing built on scorpion pits and unfinished high end condos nowhere near the strip and a population that can't or won't afford it.

Though nowadays...houses are really cheap here; just...it's Vegas...you live here for work or school (or both), finish the job, then move onto somewhere better (ie San Diego).

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skymonster
October 6, 2009 7:33 PM
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The construction industry in Vegas is in freefall right now. Like an ironworker going \"into the hole\" without a safety harness, we don't know how far the drop is or when it will end, we just know it's going to hurt when we finally hit the bottom. The casino execs can wait things out on the thick padding in their bank accounts, it's the ironworkers, carpenters and casino employees who are all in trouble.

The good news is that the casinos are starting to get more generous in their effort to drum up business. Every apartment rented out at CityCenter comes with the ghost of a construction worker, no extra charge...who said Vegas doesn't comp anymore?

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Ratty
October 6, 2009 8:20 PM
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If you ant to see sad, check out the dereclict abandoned casinos in Reno... there's giant empty old buildings on the strip, such as it is. And plenty more abandoned properties just off of it. There's only harrah's, Circus Circus, Cal-Neva, Silver legacy on the main road itself. there's 3 more to the side. And more than 3 shells of long-closed casinos and stores lining the street. there's also quite a few abandoned condo projects downtown. The housing market withered up.


Though it does have a 24 hour McDonald's right next to a strip joint, so that's nice.

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Daveinva
October 6, 2009 9:11 PM
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I don't gamble very often, but c'mon-- you hate Vegas, you hate America.

It's loud, brash, cheesy, offensive, tacky, sinful, and more importantly *fun*.

I've had great Superbowl parties there, I've had fantastic bachelor weekends there, I had one of the most romantic weekends of my life there.

Is it depressing when you're grinding away at a craps table in the Flamingo at 2 in the morning? Yes. Yes, it is.

But the *highs* I've had in that town were magnificent.

I'd rather visit Yellowstone, the Smithsonian, or Europe. But I'd also rather eat steak dinners with fine wine every night. Yet that doesn't mean I don't have a soft spot in my hear for a late-night In-N-Out burger or 7-11 nachos run.

Vegas is what it is, and I love it for it.

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Mr.Duke
October 6, 2009 11:20 PM
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When we let the law of supply and demand work without government interference trying to use taxpayer money to artificially prop things up, it is amazing how much common sense happens in the business world.

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Alarm Bell
October 8, 2009 1:59 PM
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I hope they've got some money set aside for renovations, because some of those casinos are horribly dated, and not in a cool retro style either. Think Trump. Ugh.

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jade1981
October 8, 2009 6:44 PM
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May I respectfully mention that many visitors are avoiding Las Vegas because of it's liberal smoking policy? My friends and I went last year and found that it was just not possible to avoid the smoke and still try to do much of anything....why would I want to breathe that stuff the entire time I'm on vacation? It makes me physically ill...sore throat, congestion, what's the fun it that?


Yes I know Vegas is supposed to be the last great place for smokers to light up, but considering something like 80 percent of people don't smoke, it would make sense to have a few more facilities that cater to non-smokers as well. That would definitely get me to go back, especially if I could play some slots in a smoke-free room (and no, the 10 slot machines walled off by themselves in the non-smoking section don't count...you still have to walk through the rest of the smoke-filled casino to get there).

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alterboy
October 8, 2009 6:54 PM
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It will nice to see the Vegas skyline again, minus the cranes and building skeletons. Haven't seen that since the mid 90's

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