I recently applied for a Best Buy Rewards Zone Mastercard from HSBC Bank USA. I applied on the website and at the end of the online approval process I was required to call a telephone number to confirm my identity. After I answered several question based on information from my credit report, I was approved. Over the next week, I received 2 more calls (with bad English ability, and without saying who they represented) asking me the exact same information using information from my credit report.
On the 3rd week I received the credit card in the mail. The information with the card explained the $59 annual fee. I was also approved for a $300 credit limit. I looked over the Cardholder Terms, and found that the $59 annual fee would not have to be paid if you closed the account within 90 days and did not use the account.
I called Customer Service the same day to close the account, but apparently during one of the 3 calls they made, they asked me for a Secret Identity Word. I did not know this word, so they tried the alternative verification method using my credit report information. It turns out they pulled my information through the credit agency so many times they were unable to do it a 4th time. I then spoke with a Supervisor who said that he would close the account, but that in order to reopen it in the future I will need to provide 3 forms of ID. After trying five times to convince me not to close the account, he finally closed it.
2 weeks later, on 10/15/2009, I get a bill in the mail from HSBC for $59.00 (with a min. payment of $15 due 11/3/2009). My account was supposed to be closed. I call and get stuck at the "identity word", the customer service rep. can not access my account without the word. I then speak with a Supervisor and he is able to see my account and says that it is active and has a balance of $59.00 from the Annual fee. He also says that the account was not closed 2 weeks prior and his log only shows that I called to discuss my account.
This supervisor, Chris, says that he can credit the account for $59 and close the account. He credits the account for $59 after I am put on hold for 23 minutes (in what seems an attempt to kick me off). He then tells me that if he closes my account it will be reported on my credit report as a Fraudulent account. I tell him that I have been recording everything so that my friend and attorney general can know about it. He says that unless I stop immediately he will add back the $59 and will not be able to help me. I tell him that I have, and he goes ahead in closing the account but that it will still show up on my Credit Report as a Security Hold. The only way to stop that is sending in 3 forms of ID of which is HARD to get because I am a college student and my mailing, voting, etc. is all my school address. He tells me there is no one higher up to talk to and says goodbye. I end the call after an 1hr and 20 minutes.
After all of this I was treated rudely by customer service, threatened and lied to, and left very upset with HSBC. I know this type of customer service and attitude is not inherent in all Credit Card customer service as I have always had excellent conversations with Bank of America & Chase. Is there anything I should do to let HSBC Corporate know, or stop them from damaging my Credit Report?
It sounds as if regular customer service, even the supervisors, won't be much help in this situation. It's time to talk to the more powerful folks at HSBC's executive customer service. Here's the latest phone number we have for them. It may also be worth dropping a regular letter or e-mail to Best Buy to let them know how their credit card partner is treating loyal Best Buy customers.
(Photo: adotjdotsmith)
]]>*NOT Legal Advice*
Seems like the recording is ripe for a YouTube posting...
]]>@LastError: Yeah I had 2 car loans with them and then I get the letter that they are closing up shop on Auto Loans in the US. Oh well I never had a problem with them and they gave me good rates.
]]>@dragonfire81:
What on earth makes you think that corporate directive is illegal? A company can have a policy that it will hang up for any reason, or no reason--just because a given state may have one-party consent (i.e.,it is legal for a customer to record the call) in no way means that the other party can't simply hang up if they so choose.
Unless it's a house or car, and I've done extensive research, I pay cash.
]]>Now to your question. What your company was doing was not illegal. They have a right to terminate any call for any reason. They could terminate because a customer's recording cannot be destroyed, unlike the company's recording which can be lost or destroyed should the need arise. It's smart business, really.
Smart consumerism would dictate, however, that customers do record the phone calls, but do not tell the company that they are doing so. It's perfectly legal, if and only if your company notifies customers that the company may record. Otherwise, it's illegal!
]]>@nstonep: I'm being asked to learn Spanish to support engineers in my company whose English isn't that great. I was going to learn it anyway because it's just useful here in Texas (I have nothing against immigrants or educating myself, unlike your average gringo). But my Hungarian-immigrant engineer father got his butt busy and learned English so he wasn't a burden on his employers or his new nation.
I'd gladly help anyone learn English who asked me. I was an English major in college (as opposed to the military type, lol) and I do corporate training anyway, and I have a real interest in ESL, so no sweat. Here in the oil business, where the average roughneck speaks about four languages, it would probably serve us all better anyway.
]]>@Gracegottcha: Don't assume your call center reps are in India. My brother works for Accenture (the immense business-services company) and he frequently tells me about all of the imported (I use the word literally) call center reps they hired. He's not actually in that department, but the hiring and importation of expat workers was so widespread there that everyone knew about it.
]]>@dragonfire81: Make that, "if you run your own business you should be allowed to take off any holidays you please."
]]>@reidnez: this is probably not the mastercard, but the store card. I have one of these also, through hsbc, and have been satisfied with it.
]]>I had a credit card increase my interest rate. I have good credit, so I called them to figure out why. I got treated horribly by the CSR, so I requested a written explanation regarding this.
Meanwhile, I got a new credit card with a lower rate, free balance transfer and a higher limit.
I called back to cancel and retentions department offered an interest rate lower than the original rate. Going from "you delinquent scum" to "please stay and here's a lower interest rate"? I'm sure some stupid corporate policy was behind all of this.
All they had to do was leave the card alone and they'd be getting a better-than-their-lowest interest rate instead of nothing and a former customer that will never do business with them again.
If you have good credit, there are too many card companies to have to deal with this. The OP is a college student - he will get better deals later.
]]>By continuing your call, you give your permission for a recording to be made or a third party to be monitoring the conversation. You have the option of withholding your permission for such recording, in which case you hang up.
Since the company you're calling requires your permission to continue the telephone call, they also by definition give you their permission to record the phone call for yourself. In fact, the law doesn't specify who can or may make the recording, just that one may be made.
A proper analogy would be two sides to a business transaction. Seller agrees to sell to buyer, and buyer agrees to buy from seller. They are two sides that can't happen without each other, yet they are two separate parties with regards to their discreet motives and expectations.
@Difdi: You don't need to inform the CSR that you're giving your explicit permission. Your implicit permission is legally sufficient as stated above.
In some two-party states, the company has a duty to disclose that they may be monitoring or recording the conversation. In one-party states, they do not. And in some two-party states, the company has a right to record their employees' conversations on the telephone without notifying the employees (though they must still notify the caller).
In all reality, if you are an employee of a company that *may* be recording conversations, you're an idiot if you don't know it going in. Most people might assume big brother is always watching and endeavor to be on best behaviour anyway.
This all reminds me of a court decision I read about several years ago. Man confesses to a crime on someone's voicemail. Police listen to voicemail and arrest the man. The defense moves to exclude the confession because of the expectation of privacy and the fact that police didn't obtain a warrant (the voicemail recipient allowed them to listen on request). The judge sided with the prosecution because the defendant presumed that he was being recorded when he left the voicemail and so then could not expect privacy or keep anyone from listening to it.
]]>They aren't well known in the US, but they do own many household US names (Household Finance for one) and are working on becoming better known under their own name here.
]]>When dealing an issue with my internet provider, I called and got a foreign sounding rep, I got nowhere so I hung up. I called back and got another foreign sounding rep and again got nowhere. I called a third time and got a very american sounding "Nick" and had my problem fixed in about three minutes.
]]>There was a document in our knowledge base called "customers who want to record calls" that read something like:
"Sometimes customers will state they want to record the call, possibly to build a case against . If a customer tells you they are recording a call you should:
- Tell the customer you cannot continue with the call unless they stop recording.
- If the customer refuses, transfer the call to a Supervisor.
- If the customer still refuses to stop recording, the Supervisor can terminate the call."
Am I to understand this particular corporate directive might have been illegal?
]]>I tried to cancel my HSBC Gateway card and the rep told me I would have to write a letter per the card holder agreement to ensure the account was REALLY closed. I complained to my state banking commission (HSBC does business here). I got a letter from the state, and a call and letter from HSBC stating the account was REALLY closed.
]]>I'm a regular Consumerist reader so I kept records of every phone call and letter, and even then it took me FOUR attempts before the account was canceled for good.
P.S. Between cancellation attempts #2 & #3, they sent me a *new* card.
]]>This is funny how they give you bad customer service and when you tell them you are recording, they give you NO customer service by threating not to help you further. This is typical example of when you don't do anything, you won't do anything wrong.
]]>@JackHack:
You are correct, it would be close to 100%. For some reason I took the $59 as a percentage of $300.
Sunday morning foggy brain.
]]>That's messed up. I'd be pissed to learn my stuff is going to be late because of some religious holiday. Only federal holidays should be days off for any store/company. But thanks for the info so I can avoid them.
]]>Really, really pissed off our department heads when someone did ask for it though.
]]>So a US$20 pillow ended up being close to Can$70.
]]>Doesn't say "This conversation may be recorded BUT ONLY BY US."
]]>If you pay your credit card late, you get hit with a late fee. I've had a credit card for the past 10 years, and that policy has been in place for all 10. Likely longer, but I can only speak from my experience. If you don't like it, you have 3 options: 1) Pay your bill on time. 2) Call them and see if they'll work with you somehow, if you know full well that your payment will be late. 3) Take your business elsewhere.
I'm sorry, but I've worked in the credit card industry and have seen a lot of my friends get into credit trouble. You're complaining over something resulting, ultimately, from a choice you made. You erred, now you're paying the penalty for that error. *shrug*
]]>We thought her account had been hijacked, but the reps swear up and down that there's no account under her e-mail address and no charges have shown up on her CC.
]]>Your 19.67% math doesn't hold...
]]>Spoke to a supervisor, same thing. Asked them if they'd really want to lose me as a customer over $39, which was less than my monthly interest payment. He told me there was nothing he could do. So I cancelled.
Amazing, they received my payoff immediately after the new pay cycle, so I still had interest over the previous balance. Screw them. That's the last time I'm going to give them my business (which they had purchased from a different bank anyhow).
]]>Before anyone in Canada orders large ticket electronics from the US, be aware that you can get excessively reamed if you are not careful, at no fault of the company you are doing business with.
Example:
Your do business with a company in the US. They ship a $200 stereo via UPS, which you've paid for upfront (shipping and all). UPS will arrive at your door and demand ~$80. FUN!
Partly for taxes, and the lion's share goes towards their brokerage scam.
Only order from companies in the USA that will ship via USPS, or (if you don't mind "reasonable" brokerage fees), Fedex. Or, have the item shipped via UPS overnight express on an airplane (can't remember the corporate name for it now). Notice the cost goes from $20 to $100? UPS includes these bullshit fees with that service.
It's not fun, but sellers in the USA (specifically, you will rarely have this problem with other countries) somehow get themselves locked into stupid agreements with UPS whereby they aren't allowed to ship any other way. Lord only knows why everyone else in every other countries is smarter than most businesses in the US, but hey, that's the way it goes.
]]>@Skaperen:
That may be true, but the spelling just looks funny, kind of like UnitedStatesofAmerica.
]]>Don't bother with retention departments or being transferred. Tell them what you want, tell them to write it in the notes, and thank them for their time.
]]>They're out of NY and they're run by a wonderful Jewish family. Just be aware of the fact that its easier to ship to an American address. (I have a mailbox in Bellingham that takes packages.) They do ship internationally, however because of shipping restrictions on some electronic items like I said before it maybe easier to have that American address handy. Also since this business is ran by a Jewish family, you won't be able to place orders after 3pm Friday (ET) through Saturday at sundown (I find that placing orders after 10pm ET is about when the site is up and running again.) Also the site closes down on all major Jewish holidays, but surprisingly its open on Christmas! (YAY!.....I'm Jewish btw.) They always post in advance when the site will be down and they're very courteous if you have any questions. They are also very knowledgable about the electronics they sell and they're also price competative. If you want to know more you can wiki them or call them directly at 212-444-6615. I haven't been NCIX yet. (Never heard of them until your post.....lol) I'm not very tech savvy, my husband is, I'll ask him when he gets back from taking our boys to hebrew school if he's been there.
]]>That is why I make my secret words 'screw you'.
Yes, use the USPS to cancel the card, and send it either return receipt or get proof of mailing.
]]>:)
]]>@Gracegottcha: I really admire how hard working these Indian call center employees are. They work odd hours to fit our schedules, learn a foreign language fairly well, and are polite. I'm sure they'd be great neighbors and friends. HOWEVER, when I call a company to resolve a problem, I need someone who can actually understand the subtleties of the language the transaction was originated in and not force me to cut through a thick accent.
]]>@4phun: only now? Obviously you haven't experienced their warranties, fake sales, false discounts, bricks in boxes, pr0n0 cds in new DVD players, destroying your hard drive when you bring your computer in for service, high service charges for the Geek squid, the run around when trying to call the store and many more.
]]>The law, put simply, is that since there is the presumption that the company is recording the phone call, there is already the potential for recording, and since both parties are on notice(by that message at the beginning) there is no other consent needed for you to record, also.
]]>The latest scam for credit cards (OK, I mean Chase United Mileage Plus credit cards) is to not allow you to dispute a late fee. The CSR is powerless to do anything about late fees. OK, so he probably can't do anything other than try to placate people who call to dispute various charges. There is no person or telephone number to call. In order to dispute a late fee, you must write to them. Sure my payment arrived 4 days late, but $39?! This card has an $80 annual fee, they make a ton of money on each transaction I make plus any interest charges, now they've put a wall in front of me and you to discourage us from trying to get the fee waived. Before I'm flamed for being late, Yes, I was late, but $39 is way too high a fee and it's worth trying to get this waived. If I were chronically late, I'd understand, but of course this is Chases new business model: don't give value, but fine your customer for making a "mistake" and make the fine as big as legally possible.
]]>Household Suckered Best-buy Customer?
]]>@reidnez: Yeah, mine is 1K w/ no annual fee. Sounds like the card has really gone downhill.
]]>I too have enjoyed the secret word or identity question taken to the extreme of epic failure. Dell Financial/CIT once asked for my mother's maiden name to verify who I was to discuss my account (I wanted to verify that it was still active after not having been used in over a year). The customer no-service rep in India could not understand that my mother's last name was two words, "St." Something, when I told her it and then tried to spell it out. I finally got her to understand and I explained that it could be on file as St.Something, SaintSomething, etc. (including with or without the space and period after the abbreviated St.). She had me guess how my mother's maiden name had been entered years prior by another customer rep. I guessed wrong and she refused to help me or to provide a way to confirm my identity. Needless to say, I didn't use the account and purchased the item from a different source.
]]>I thought the outrageous prices for simple HDMI cables was bad, then selling opened Laptops as new etc. but to hear they want $60 for a $300 credit card? This is intercity ghetto thinking!
If they have added any kind of fee to my free Best Buys credit card you can bet I am canceling it immediately.They need me aa a customer but I don't need them with Amazon.com, MicroCenter, and several local Frys stores.
What did they do, absorb Circuit City management?
]]>@gladeye:
Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation.
]]>What do the letters HSBC stand for?
]]>A $300 credit limit and a $59 annual fee? It would probably be cheaper to borrow the money from
Tony Two Thumbs.
No wonder they kept pressing the card on him. They make a 19.66% percent pure profit on him if he doesn't even charge anything. I don't even want to know what the interest rate is.
]]>