var json_comments = new Array("
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crymson777
October 19, 2009 9:59 PM
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Same old issue, same solution. \"Have a nice day\" and keep walking. If they stop you, it is false imprisonment. If they touch you while doing so, it is assault.

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10 replies
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Kogenta
October 20, 2009 1:28 AM
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@crymson777: Yeah, I don't get where these companies are coming from. Where I worked, the policy was (and management made sure you knew), if they set off the detector, ask politely if they'd like to have their receipt verified and any missed tags deactivated, if they decline, well, that's their choice, you just go onto the next customer in your checkout lane. If they stole something, well, that's what you have loss prevention for after all. And a happy thief is a thief that will return again to get caught.

No touching, no accusations of shoplifting, everyone's happy.

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The Porkchop Express
October 20, 2009 12:39 PM
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@Alex Chasick: thank you. Assault is non-physical. But just touching you isn't always battery either.

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crymson777
October 20, 2009 2:06 PM
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@The Porkchop Express: All too correct. BUT, if the act of restraining your freedom by requiring a receipt to leave involves touching it automatically jumps to assault or battery (depending on state/city laws). One person is not allowed to touch another in a threatening way or to detain them without reasonable suspicion (or mostly just not at all). This also applies to citizen's arrest. You are more than able to make an arrest as a citizen. If you touch the person, you are opening yourself up for a world of legal issues.


@supercereal: You are more than welcome to ask me to stop. I will happily reply, \"Have a nice day\" and keep walking. If you try to stop me from leaving though, THAT is where we are going to have trouble. This is exactly the kind of situation that requires an act of holding to your rights. As for \"effort and outrage\"...I believe you read my comment incorrectly as it doesn't require effort or outrage on my part. It is a simple guaranteeing of my own rights as a citizen that follows the law.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 2:26 PM
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@crymson777: I guess you did not see Fatomesq's helpful discussion of the difference between assault in battery. Anyway, the touching part would be a battery.

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crymson777
October 20, 2009 2:41 PM
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@RPHP: I did. Hence the \"(depending on state/city laws) :)


The actual laws are different depending on where you live. Some states it is assault, others it is battery. Laws are funny that way :D

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 2:57 PM
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@crymson777: I side with fatomesq. In tort law, the CL where these torts developed makes it pretty uniform. Prosser and Keaton seam to think that this is so and offer no examples of the definitions varying.

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SadSam
October 20, 2009 5:24 PM
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@RPHP:


I say no thank you and keep moving (I'm also blonde and pretty, which I think helps). The few times I've run into someone who doesn't accept no thank you, I return the merchandise, receive my refund, tell the manager the reason for said return and I never shop at the store ever again. I don't shop at Wal-Mart or Best Buy as a standing rule.


Indeed, the business owner is within their rights to request but I'm within my rights to decline. Most people are sheep so they submit. A couple of times when I've gone around the receipt checking exit line other customers have noticed and question the checker (why do I have to stand here, of course I let them know that they do not).


Look, I'm a very, very good customer, we've spent thousands upon thousands of dollars at Home Depot (we own real estate investments), I own Home Depot stock too, but after I've paid for my merchandise (and the checker has seen me pay for the merchandise) I want to go on my merry way, I don't want any further interaction. If this becomes a Home Depot policy we'll start shopping at Lowe's.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 6:22 PM
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@SadSam: I don't know how this is responding to me, however, I agree that in most circumstances you can say no thank you and just leave.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 12:59 PM
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@The Porkchop Express: Fatomesq explains it correctly. A harmful or offensive touching is battery. That brings in many cases especially in this context.

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PølάrβǽЯ
October 20, 2009 1:06 AM
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@Alex Chasick: Depends on the state, actually. One thing that really annoys me in discussions like this is when people assume that the laws are the same in all 50 states.

In my state, \"battery\" doesn't exist (at least, not as a crime; I have lots of rechargeable AAs and a lead-acid in each of my cars). We have various degrees of assault, however, which can be modified to include domestic violence or a motor vehicle.

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ubermex
October 20, 2009 2:25 AM
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@aaron8301aka Polaяßæя: This annoys me as well. In my state, assault is a threat and battery is a touching. I actually had a law studies teacher IN THIS STATE define them incorrectly.

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supercereal
October 19, 2009 10:25 PM
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@crymson777: Not every incident of someone asking you to stop is false imprisonment. Not every incident of someone tapping your precious person on the shoulder is assault. Grow up, get real, and save your effort and outrage for situations that warrant it.

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sinfuly Delicious
October 20, 2009 7:15 PM
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@supercereal: I dunno. I think I see a bruise, and is that a scab? ouch looks painful.

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Telekinesis123
October 20, 2009 4:07 AM
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@supercereal: Grow up? Our rights and freedoms are the most important thing to us as individuals and they must be exercised and respected, he respects and exercises his rights, a very grown up and responsible thing to do. Asking people to bend to your or other peoples will based on aggression and threats with no legal backing as you seem to support is the only thing that is an immature and aggressive position.

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secret_curse
October 20, 2009 2:49 PM
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@Telekinesis123: A business owner has the right to refuse you service the same way you have a right to not show a receipt. So, if you don't want to prove you own the items you just paid for, that's your right. If the business owner wants to ban you from their store forever for not showing your receipt, that's their right. It's a two way street...

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Difdi
October 19, 2009 11:51 PM
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@supercereal: Asking you to stop is not detaining you. Physically grabbing you, or blocking your path so you cannot leave IS detaining you. The former is potentially rude. The latter is a felony.

The simplest uninvited touch is assault. If it causes injury (or in some cases) pain, it is battery. So yes, someone tapping you on the shoulder could arguably be assault. Grabbing your shoulder definitely would be.

Grow up, get real, and save your effort and outrage for situations that warrant it. How do you figure that someone committing violent crimes against someone does not warrant outrage?

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fantomesq
October 20, 2009 2:21 AM
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@Difdi: No a simple touch is not automatically assault and injury is not required for battery. Battery is a HARMFUL or OFFENSIVE touching - it can be offensive without injury. Assault is the APPREHENSION of a harmful or offensive touching... most touches, uninvited or not, do not rise to this.

In this case, if the OP was neither touched or had the apprehension of being touched, neither is appropriate...

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 4:06 AM
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@fantomesq: Thank you for correcting everyone. It perturbs me when people throw things around when they do not really know what is going on.

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mxjohnson
October 19, 2009 10:46 PM
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@supercereal:
\"If they stop you, it is false imprisonment.\" Not, \"If they ask you to stop, it's false imprisonment.\" Do you see the difference?

\"Grow up, get real, and save your effort and outrage for situations that warrant it\" -- now that's ripe.

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mralmostpopular
October 19, 2009 10:46 PM
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@supercereal: Asking you to stop, and physically detaining you are two different things. And legally, most instances of someone touching you without your permission can be considered assault. If someone tapped on my shoulder, that's one thing. If someone grabbed me and held me, that's something else entirely.

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TakingItSeriously is a Technopile
October 19, 2009 10:02 PM
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I agree ... you should have taken the lumber back and complained. Not just about the rude treatent, but about the policy in general. Like you I also would not have thought to do that until halfway home.


You did the right thing!

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1 replies
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yentaleh
October 20, 2009 2:10 PM
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@TakingItSeriously is Simon:

I agree. GO AND RETURN THE LUMBER! Then find a lumberyard in your area that appriciates you as a customer instead of a huge conglomerate. Also rattle off a EECB to Home Depot if you like shopping there, as customers we need to start taking back our rights and to put those who are in the wrong to shame.

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takotchi
October 19, 2009 10:04 PM
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I had a similar thing happen at a Worst Buy. I came in to pick up something I ordered on-line. I could see the bouncer watch me walk over to customer service and do the whole transaction. (It was a tad creepy, actually.)

On my way out, he demanded my receipt. I never show my receipt, but this time I was particularly pissed because the guy had been watching me the entire time, so he knew there was no way it was stolen. So, I said \"No way! You JUST watched me buy that!\" and I was barely finished speaking when he shouted at me \"n-no, I did not!\", perhaps realizing he wasn't being as slick as he thought. I rolled my eyes and walked out.

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5 replies
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Craysh
October 26, 2009 11:48 PM
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@takotchi: When I worked at the geek squad we had a couple of people working at the customer service desk that would give their friends items and say that it was from online ordering.
That's when they started to check reciepts at our store.

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sth9669
October 20, 2009 1:10 PM
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I worked as a LP/Yellow Shirt at Best Buy for 3 years in college, and I never did crap like this. I can't believe that they try this stuff! When I worked the door, I only checked receipts on orders with a big TV or multiple pieces that had to come out from the warehouse, and that was just to make sure the idiots in the warehouse brought out the Samsung LN-A550 not the LN-A350 (since they're in the same box) or else they didn't forget to bring the DVD player or something.

I never checked receipts because I thought someone stole something! If I didn't see them steal it, then I knew it wouldn't matter, there wasn't anything I could do about it anyway, and I'm not stupid enough to try getting in a confrontation and get stabbed by some crackhead who wants to steal a few CD's or a walkman.

If the door alarm went off and the person kept walking, I'd let them walk and say \"have a nice day\". If they came back, I'd take their bag and wave it through the sensor bars and if the bag set it off, I'd deactivate it, and if it didn't, I'd ask if they had anything else on them from a different store.

The problem now is the same thing that's happening with the police: you get a bunch of power/control-hungry a-holes who get a little taste of it and they want to go into Jack Bauer mode. Every time I go into BB, I just keep on walking, if they want to stop this 6'6 275lb guy, then they'd better get some help. . .

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doctor_cos wants you to remain calm
October 20, 2009 4:43 PM
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@sth9669: Amen. I have no problem with you checking my receipt on a TV or something else I paid for elsewhere in the store (not in clear view of the exit Gestapo). Otherwise, no thanks, you just saw me at the register.
If you want to make it an issue, follow me to the service counter where I'll be returning all the items and explaining why I will not be returning (and neither will my money).

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chocobo
October 20, 2009 12:30 AM
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@takotchi: That really is a good response... it'll work almost all of the time, whether they were actually watching you or not.

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Cyberxion101
October 19, 2009 11:59 PM
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@takotchi: That exact same thing happened to me this weekend. Creepy. @_@

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catskyfire
October 19, 2009 10:04 PM
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I might have gone for the \"I'll show my receipt to the employee who will be giving me a refund for these items which you helped me decide I don't really need.\"

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5 replies
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sth9669
October 20, 2009 1:15 PM
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@catskyfire: As snappy and awesome as that sounds, it doesn't really give you the satisfaction you think it will, simply because the store employees (at least the ones below the management level) don't care if you shop there or not.

I've had people at various stores I work at get mad because we wouldn't return items they used, etc and they always would yell \"I'll take my business elsewhere!\" I can tell you, this might make the customer feel like they're effecting the store employees, but it's never the case. The security guard would still work there, and unless ALL of their customers do the same thing, the store will stay open.

I don't really have a suggestion for what you could've done to 'get them back', but I think the best you can really do is to stay polite/dignified as long as possible (that's the best way to piss off a power hungry LP guy is to stay completely polite with a smile on your face and firmly tell him what you are going to do) and simply never shop there again.

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DoubleBaconVeggieBurger
October 20, 2009 1:54 PM
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@sth9669: I don't see why your solution of not shopping there in the future is any better than returning the lumber. At least you're telling SOMEONE why they're losing out on a sale. Maybe the manager will notice an increase in returns and ask the customer service person if they know anything. And they'll say, well, people have been yelling at me about that glowering security guard and his receipt-checking.

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sth9669
October 20, 2009 5:16 PM
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@Ayarkay: I wasn't saying that she shouldn't have returned the items, I was just talking about 'zinging' the LP guy with a snappy comeback. He's not going to say he's sorry, so just return your stuff, say your peace with whoever will listen calmly and walk out the store and never return.

Trying to 'get someone fired' or saying \"I'll never shop here!\" or \"I'll take my business elsewhere!\" won't really do anything, even if the manager is standing right there. They pay that goon to check your receipts, so no matter what the manager says while you're standing there, he's going to say good job once you leave. They don't want customers who know their rights and there are plenty of people who will blindly hand over their receipt for the privilege of shopping at these stores (unfortunately). . . .

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iam118
October 20, 2009 5:11 PM
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@Ayarkay: or better yet, change it to I'll show it to your manager as I return these items...

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trashbaby
October 19, 2009 10:29 PM
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@catskyfire: Yeah!!! I've got to remember this one. What a classy and perfect response. Thank you!!

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lemortede
October 19, 2009 10:06 PM
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\"I complained to management. But later, after I was home, I thought I should have returned every piece of lumber I just bought and THEN complain. But I didn't think about it until it was too late.\"

This is what I have started doing.
All the stores I frequent have a competitor across the street or down the block.
Its not that big of a hassle for me to return everything and take my business where I am not treated like a thief.

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4 replies
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NancyCpants
October 20, 2009 8:31 AM
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@lemortede: Exactly what I do, too. They want to treat me like a criminal and waste my time, I'm going to start wasting theirs.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 12:37 AM
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@lemortede: Yep, I did this before. It was a purchase of 15 items. I'm sure that would've showed up in their reports. I actually had them void the sale before I even left because they accused me of shoplifting at the checkout station...

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xredgambit
October 20, 2009 2:45 AM
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@ecwis: Next time don't steal. j/k but yeah I think I will do this if I'm ever asked. Only time I've been asked is when walmart had a mentally handicapped man doing the checking and so I let it slide.

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MisterE
October 19, 2009 10:06 PM
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These receipt checking policies are getting out of hand. What is stopping the store from posting a sign stating \"Our store policy is to check your receipt upon leaving the store.\" Would this legally satisfy anything? At least the customer is notified and given the option to shop elsewhere.

Given that most store employees have the I.Q. and common sense of a walnut, fighting back with \"common sense\" doesn't seem to work. Complaining after the fact doesn't work. Threats of shoplifting and detention only discourage honest shoppers from going to the store in the first place. I guess the only solution left is to vent on Consumerist!

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9 replies
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shadowkahn
October 20, 2009 1:57 AM
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@MisterE: \"What is stopping the store from posting a sign stating \"Our store policy is to check your receipt upon leaving the store.\" Would this legally satisfy anything?\"

No. Posting something does not make it legal. The over-the-top example I always use is that the store manager cannot post a sign saying \"our store policy is to kill our customers\" and then murder you and expect to get away with it.

Many stores try the \"if it's posted, the customer will think it's legitimate\" game, especially with the \"absolutely no returns for any reason\" signs. Even if the store has such a sign posted, if the item you bought does not work as intended, the implied warranty of merchantability law will override the store's policy.

In this case, the store has no legal right to search you unless they have a reasonable suspicion (and your presence there is not reasonable suspicion) that you are actually stealing something. Posting a sign saying that they want to search you does not mean they can legally do so.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 4:16 AM
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@shadowkahn: @TheUncleBob: @tungstencoil:

Calm down everyone. You can not, under any circumstances, consent to murder. You can consent to being searched. Therefore, your example does not prove anything.

I can not say for sure but - if there is a sign before entering the store that says by entering this store you agree to XYZ they may have an argument that you have agreed to the terms there. Similar to when entering a parking lot they have terms on the back of the slip which you agree to - if you do not agree to them you should leave right away.

I am not saying this works everywhere but if you consent before entering that may be considered consent in some place. There are problems with the sign case and there are obvious distinctions from the parking situation (such as you may not read the sign here where in the parking situation you are given a ticket that you are presumed to read). Therefore, I can not say without research whether it would hold up though I would think it as least has a shot. Nevertheless, your objections based on your example are not very good arguments.

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sqlrob
October 20, 2009 4:30 AM
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@RPHP:
OK then, replace \"shot\" with \"punched in the face\"

Boxing is legal, so you can consent.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 11:34 AM
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@sqlrob: sure. so if you put a sign up that says if you get in the boxing ring you consent to boxing you may have an argument that you have consented.

I would assume, without looking at the cases, that these things depend on the circumstances. It is reasonable to consent to boxing by stepping into a ring but not by going into a store. It is also reasonable to consent to a receipt search (though probably not a strip search) by shopping in a store where the terms are disclosed.

Like I said though, I can not say for sure that this would fly, I can just see this as a good argument that may pass in certain jurisdictions.

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secret_curse
October 20, 2009 2:44 PM
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@RPHP: You don't have to consent to the receipt check.


The store doesn't have to allow you to stay or come back to their private property.


So, the receipt checker can be given the authority to say \"show me your receipt or you will be forever banned from our property and we will call the police to report trespassing if you don't leave immediately and never come back.\" In that case, you're welcome to leave without showing a receipt but you're not welcome to return to that store ever again.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 3:01 PM
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@secret_curse: You may be right - I don't know. I am just saying I could see in some places how a conspicuously placed sign saying if you shop here you agree to these terms and conditions would hold up - like the parking garage scenario. However, I can also see how a court would say there was no agreement.

I don't know if you were responding to that part of the comment or another part. Anyway, the thrust was on whether you can form an agreement by sign before entering which I would assume would be very fact based and jurisdiction dependent.

The other part of my comment was addressing other people who note you can not consent to certain things (such as murder) which I was bringing down why that example was not a vary good analogy for this case.

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dragonfire81
October 20, 2009 4:58 PM
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@RPHP: You are forgetting that every single person that entered the store would have to read and agree to the sign in order for it to be enforceable. Lots of people don't read signage in a store so putting up a sign is, in most cases, rather useless.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 6:24 PM
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@dragonfire81: I completely agree which is why I note it may not work. Probably depends on where you are. Many do not read contracts before signing them or do not read the tickets at parking garages - this does not necessarily mean one is not responsible for what is written there.

I agree once again that the sign may not work. I am simply saying in the right circumstances and the right jurisdiction the sign MAY work.

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TheUncleBob
October 20, 2009 2:36 AM
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@shadowkahn: So, if a store manager gets a customer sign something saying \"We get to kill you\", does that make it legal??

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PhilFR
October 20, 2009 3:25 AM
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@TheUncleBob: Oh, man. Now I'm REALLY gonna have to read the fine print!

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H3ion
October 20, 2009 1:22 AM
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@MisterE: I'm not so sure that putting a notice on the entrance door to the effect that in exchange for the privilege of shopping in that store, you agree to show your receipt on exit wouldn't work. After all, you have the right not to enter. Legally, I don't think this is different than the Sam's Club and Costco policies.

Having said, I don't show receipts, period. If I'm carrying three gallons of paint, I'm not about to reach into my pocket for a piece of paper. Also, if I'm going to shoplift, it's not going to be for three lousy gallons of paint.

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tungstencoil
October 19, 2009 11:03 PM
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@MisterE: Have to concur: It carries no legal weight. It's the same as if they posed a sign \"we reserve the right to shoot and kill you if we feel like it.\"

Posting a sign does not mean you can violate someone's rights or the law.

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[DFX] Deimos
October 19, 2009 10:15 PM
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@MisterE: They can post a sign all they want, it doesn't change the laws regarding the situation. As soon as they accept payment for your purchase it is your property and you don't have to show them anything.


On the topic of \"posted signs\", I think I am going to get a t-shirt made that says \"It is my personal policy not to read any posted signs or notices. As such, I will not be bound by any posted terms or conditions\"

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Difdi
October 19, 2009 11:56 PM
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@[DFX] Deimos: That's a great idea! I may just get a shirt like that printed up myself.

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TheUncleBob
October 20, 2009 12:48 AM
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I don't know about that. If the sign is posted, is it any different than Sam's or Costco? If Sam's can \"violate one's rights\" by making them agree to something before shopping there, why can't, say, Walmart do the same thing, just in the form of a sign?

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ivanthemute
October 20, 2009 1:19 AM
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@TheUncleBob: Sam's and Costco classify as private clubs, much as a \"Gentleman's\" club or a private dance club, or a shooting club. The items in there are purchased on your behalf, and when you buy an item, you're really \"reimbursing\" the club for it. Best way I've heard this explained was at a private bar I was a member of. \"The members own the liquor, but pay me to serve it.\"

Also, the membership contract that you sign to shop in Sam's or Costco states that you agree to a receipt check before you leave. By signing, you acknowledge that you are waiving your rights in this area. Walmart and other receipt checking stores do not require that you explicitly waive your rights in this case. Even prominently displayed signage, even IF read, does not constitute a contract, verbal or otherwise. If that were the case, then Deimos's shirt idea would be totally awesome!

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 1:39 AM
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@ivanthemute: No agreement is actually signed, at least with Sam's Club. I just started a membership there last week and there was no agreement to sign.

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tylerk4
October 19, 2009 10:49 PM
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@[DFX] Deimos: Just toss a brick at the storefront with an engraving which reads: \"By accepting this brick through your window you agree to be bound by the policies set forth herein....\"

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acknight
October 19, 2009 10:14 PM
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@MisterE: Given that store policy is not nor carries the weight of law, posting a sign is more deterrent than anything else.

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frank64
October 19, 2009 10:06 PM
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I am OK with them checking my receipt. They must have a problem with shoplifting or they would not go through the expense. I don't want to enable shoplifters. I bet that someone is checking receipts stops at least the casual shoplifter.

I would have a problem with being rude though.

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6 replies
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SodeDogg
October 20, 2009 1:22 PM
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@frank64: I love making an example of myself, especially when I get stopped on the way out of Target on one of those $100 trips where you only get little crap for around the house. When my receipt gets checked, I make sure they check each and every of the 30 items. It tends to eat up about five minutes of the checker's time and they watch about 50 people exit the store in the meantime. I rather enjoy it.

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chrisexv6
October 20, 2009 1:00 AM
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@frank64: I can give receipt checkers a little leeway, but if they A) watched you stand there while the items were rung up by a cashier and B) watched you pay for those items and then wanted to check, they are close to hearing it from me.

Factor in that you are lugging around large items, with the receipt already in your pocket (because where else are you going to put it), was it really necessary to even ask for the receipt?

Good for the person in the story for standing up, but I would have told the guard to walk with me while I wander over to returns and get my $$$ back.

Luckily where I live the only place that actually enforces the receipt checking policy is Costco, and since its policy, I gladly oblige. If HD ever started that around here Id start avoiding them like the plague.....their only usefulness is that its quick to pick stuff up in a pinch, which will go away once they have 1 receipt checker to check the 2 registers (and 4 self checkouts) that they have open.

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Cupajo
October 20, 2009 12:00 AM
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@frank64: \"They must have a problem with
shoplifting or they would not go through the expense\"

The thing is, receipt checkers are a method of *cutting* expenses. They don't want to pay three people to watch security camera feeds, so they pay on* person to stand at the door and waste your time. You want to show them your receipt, fine. Knock yourself out. My time is valuable though and I'm, since I'm not a stockholder, I'm not particularly interested in helping WalMart/BestBuy/HomeDepot maximize their profits I'm going to respectfully pass.

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DH405
October 20, 2009 12:34 AM
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@Cupajo: I'm baffled at how you went for the \"e\" and came up with an asterisk.

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Cupajo
October 20, 2009 1:39 AM
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@DH405: My laptop is busted and I'm reduced to websurfing on a Dell Mini 9 with this \"little person\" keyboard. I'm surprised it wasn't more screwed up than it was. I think I was going for this: *one*

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ReverendLoki
October 19, 2009 10:58 PM
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@frank64: So it's not a big deal if they check your plastic store bag. But you (or your wife) seems to be sporting an awfully big purse, so they should check that, too. Your pants seem to have some roomy pockets, so they should pat you down as well. And if you'll just bend over, they can take care of that body cavity search.

As the punchline goes, \"we've already established what kind of lady you are, now we're just haggling over price\".

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guaporico
October 19, 2009 11:36 PM
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@ReverendLoki: Congratulations for blowing this out of proportion.

I've never been detained, harassed or suffered any indignity as the result of a receipt check. Here's how it goes down:
\"May I see your receipt?\"
\"Here\"
\"thanks, have a nice day\".

That wasn't very difficult and took an entire extra 5-10 seconds ...

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ReverendLoki
October 26, 2009 4:14 PM
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@guaporico: And crongratulations on latching onto just one part of my comment.

The immediate step to checking your bags - both the store bags and any purses or other bags you brought in with you - is easily within the realm of possibility. And really, if you are going to allow that, it's not unrealistic to allow them to check your pockets.

Just because you are willing to surrender your civil liberties readily without argument does not mean the next guy is, nor should be.

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bravohotel01
October 20, 2009 7:31 PM
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@guaporico: \"That wasn't very difficult and took an entire extra 5-10 seconds ... \"

Not so short if you're the 6-8th person in line and you have to wait EVEN LONGER while the schlub checks a customer's 5-8 bags.

Thank goddess I have a toddler. It is quite easy to pick up said kid in one arm and arrange packages so I don't have a free hand. Then when the schlub asks me for the receipt, I look at him/her and say, \"not gonna happen\" as I walk past the line of sheep.

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eggynack
October 20, 2009 1:04 AM
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@guaporico: It isn't really blowing anything out of proportion at all. The point is that if at first you have to display your recipt to deter shoplifting and lower prices to the store, then what is to stop the store from continuing to deny rights to shoppers. I'm assuming that none of the things stated by ReverendLoki have actually happened, but the question is whether these things will happen in the future.

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tackett
October 19, 2009 11:45 PM
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@guaporico: It probably depends on where you live and where you shop.

I have lived in bad neighborhoods for the last 10 years. The security is rude, and the store managers don't care. In nicer places, they don't ask as often, and are much more friendly.

On that note, I *never* show one, and have never been harassed for it. I simply will not put up with that kind of behavior.

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Geoff
October 19, 2009 10:10 PM
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Couldn't they argue that your defiance is a reasonable reason to suspect you are shoplifting, thus giving them the ability to detain you?

Also, really? Yeah, it's dumb, but just hand them your receipt and move on. Most places don't even look, they just swipe a highlighter across it and call it a day.

The time and money involved in getting detained, calling the police/lawyer is not worth the 5-10 seconds having them check my receipt takes. I just always hold my receipt in my hand visibly as I leave a store just in case they ask.

I'm all for civil disobedience, but this hardly counts as one of those times where it should be used.

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Covertghost
October 20, 2009 3:59 PM
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@Geoff: \"Couldn't they argue that your defiance is a reasonable reason to suspect you are shoplifting, thus giving them the ability to detain you?\"


Not in the United States.

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spanky
October 19, 2009 11:03 PM
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@Geoff: Civil disobedience is nonviolent resistance of a lawful order by someone in a position of authority over you. Receipt checks aren't lawful orders, and the people who request them are not in a position of authority over you, so refusing a receipt check isn't civil disobedience. It's just declining a request.

That's a big problem with this issue, in fact. A lot of people assume, at least implicitly, that you're required to submit to pretty much anything someone says in an authoritative tone or something.

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Difdi
October 20, 2009 12:06 AM
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@spanky: Arguably, since a receipt checker lacks authority to compel you to show a receipt, detaining someone for not showing their receipt is an act of civil disobedience in itself.

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jedsa
October 19, 2009 10:35 PM
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@Geoff:

No! Saying no to a request to see a receipt is NOT reasonable reason to suspect someone of shoplifting. It's a request. It's asking shoppers to do something voluntarily. Saying no to a request doesn't give someone the right to force you do it!

In most states, there is such a thing as shopkeeper's privilege, giving a store the right to hold a suspected shoplifter on store property for a reasonable amount of time, if they have cause to belive a person has committed or attempted to commit shoplifting. But-there must be reasonable suspension to hold someone. Generally speaking, this involves witnessing them taking and concealing something and leaving without paying. Anything less and the shopkeeper is in grave peril of being sued for false imprisonment.

There is NO right of search, only a right of detention for a reasonable period of time under the circumstances. It may be reasonable to detain someone for 15 minutes for the police to arrive in some circumstances, but not if the matter could have been cleared up by merely asking the cashier if someone paid for item X.

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Tijil
October 19, 2009 10:32 PM
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@Geoff: No, that refusal to comply is NOT adequate to provide a reasonable suspicion under the law.

And you are right: The main point of receipt checking is to put an identifiable mark on the receipt so it can't be re-used by someone to remove items from the store a second time.

Simple and direct.

It really isn't an accusation.

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hermia_j
October 19, 2009 11:26 PM
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@Tijil: Can't someone just figure out what color highlighter they're using and mark a receipt then? It is annoying and it is treating those of us who don't steal as criminals. I worked in retail for 9 years. I don't see how receipt checking effectively stops shrinkage. It's just one more hassle in a sometimes already frustrating experience.

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Shaggy
October 19, 2009 10:24 PM
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@Geoff: Couldn't they argue that your defiance is a reasonable reason to suspect you are shoplifting, thus giving them the ability to detain you?

Well, the Supreme Court has stated that refusing a search is not a reasonable reason, according to United States v. Mendenhall:

[www.law.cornell.edu]

Of course, a Home Depot security guard isn't a \"real\" law enforcement officer, so this limitation doesn't necessarily apply to them, but here's my question: why does a store's rights trump my own? I don't have to submit to a search of my property, no matter how \"dumb\" or \"inconvenient\".

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Bill19014
October 19, 2009 10:35 PM
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@Shaggy:

What Shaggy said. If refusal to permit a search was grounds for a search, then the most unreasonable searches would automatically justify themselves: (\"You won't submit to a cavity search before leaving our store? Then clearly you're trying to hide something.\"

My favorite example of this type of thing was a law enforcement agency that posted a sign on the highway that said, \"Drug checkpoint ahead, prepare to be searched\", or something like that. Of course, there was no checkpoint; they would pull over vehicles that turned around at the sign. These searches were later held to be unconstitutional.

Shaggy makes a good point that the Fourth Amendment might not apply to a private guard, but my feeling (which may not hold up to court muster) is that, since my rights don't come from, but are merely enumerated by, the Constitution, I have a right to refuse a search that is in violation of those rights, no matter who wants to do the searching.

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Difdi
October 20, 2009 12:04 AM
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@Bill19014: The Fourth Amendment absolutely does NOT apply to a private security guard. Why not? Because there is no need to have a law protecting you specifically from searches and seizures by someone who lacks the authority to search and/or seize at all.

Yup, that's right. A private security guard (or other store employee) who wants to search you can't without your permission. If they do so anyway, the legal terms that describe what happens start at assault, move through battery, unlawful detainment, possibly attempted murder or attempted kidnapping. And all that completely ignores what you might do back to them in self-defense!

Refusal to consent to a search you are not obligated to submit to does not justify the search. It does not constitute probable cause or even reasonable suspicion. If they believe you have broken the law, they can detain you and call the police (but the act of detaining another citizen is itself a crime, unless there is evidence the detainee is a criminal). Assuming the local police are not corrupt, and assuming the detainee is not in fact a shoplifter, it will be the store employee who leaves the scene in handcuffs.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 4:21 AM
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@Difdi: I think Bill19014's point is the 4th amendment is an exclusionary rule in criminal law. Ie a search which violates the 4th amendment will prevent the evidence found from coming in during a criminal trial. Therefore, the jurisprudence as to what is a proper search under the 4th amendment may not apply to the shopkeeper's privilege.

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downwithmonstercable
October 19, 2009 10:16 PM
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@Geoff: There are a lot of people here who argue it's a violation of your privacy and your rights. I think it's a minor inconvenience. Then of course, people start calling you communist by giving up your rights and saying pretty soon stores will strip search, taze you, etc and that THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE END

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Mackinstyle
October 19, 2009 10:12 PM
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At Future Shop in Canada, everyone gets checked. I've even seen people waiting at the entrance for minutes, for someone to come by and sign their receipt before they left.

I think people need to be educated about the law in this circumstance.

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RandomZero
October 20, 2009 12:39 PM
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@Mackinstyle: At your specific Future Shop, maybe. Neither the two Future Shops nor the Best Buy (same company) in my city have done anything of the sort.


@Difdi: Yes, actually. Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, sections 10 and 11 with a dash of 13 for flavour. Note that, while the applicability of the US Constitution is in question here, Section 10 explicitly calls out \"arrest or detention\", with no requirement that it be a peace officer doing the detaining.

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AirIntake
October 20, 2009 2:26 PM
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@RandomZero: We don't need to go into the Canadian charter to know that a random store employee can't legally detain you. Can you legally detain house guests if they don't let you search their purse?

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annexw
October 20, 2009 3:22 AM
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@Mackinstyle:
Where are you in Canada? I'm in Alberta and can't recall ever showing my receipt.

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Difdi
October 20, 2009 12:07 AM
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@Mackinstyle: Canada has different laws than the US. Is there a Canadian equivalent of the US Fourth Amendment and Fifth Amendment that says the same thing?

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 4:22 AM
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@Difdi: Dude, the 4th and 5th amendment almost certainly do not apply here. The tort of false imprisonment here is not based on the constitution.

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LadyTL
October 20, 2009 1:12 AM
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@Difdi: At least for the fourth admendment yes and it says pretty much the same thing.

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EarlNowak
October 19, 2009 11:34 PM
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@Mackinstyle: The laws are different in Canada. I can't speak definitively towards what rights you may have in such a situation.

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downwithmonstercable
October 19, 2009 10:14 PM
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At least they're honest, instead of making up something stupid about ensuring you got rung up correctly.

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mrsam
October 19, 2009 10:14 PM
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Returning the items, as the submitter considered, accomplishes very little. With big box stores, one return is just white noise. The clerk at the return desk will pretend to be interested in your story, process the refund, stifle a yawn, and move on to the next customer.

Were I accosted by some rent a cop, in a similar situation, I'd pull my cell phone out, push the record button, and ask the Barney Fife-wannabe to repeat his accusation on the record, so that I can forward to the store management's for comments.

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TakingItSeriously is a Technopile
October 19, 2009 10:32 PM
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@mrsam: Actually this is a store by store policy. A little white noise can come across loud and clear when you ask to speak to the manager at the refund counter, and explain \"I am returning these materials because . . .\".

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downwithmonstercable
October 19, 2009 10:26 PM
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@mrsam: Having worked in retail previously and done books/worked with management on this type of thing, returns (especially large ones) are very heavily looked at and scrutinized because stores are graded by districts on that stuff. If you bought a pack of gum and return it, yeah, nobody's gonna look at that. But if you just bought a TV and home theater, that's gonna show up on their returns and get some people fired up. I could care less if people check my receipt, but if you want to stick it to the store, hurt their scores, and get the issue looked at, that's probably gonna be your best bet.

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crazylikewhoa
October 19, 2009 10:15 PM
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i want to know why stores can't just set up their checkout lanes with the exit immediately after. & then have a separate exit for people that came in & didn't buy anything. i haven't seen a receipt checker at my local Home Depot/Lowe's, but those stores are set up where the exit is right after the checkout line. i could understand if they had a lot of self-checkout lanes, but there is a supposed to be an employee there monitoring transactions.

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wcnghj
October 19, 2009 10:23 PM
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I returned a printer to K-mart once because they wanted to check my receipt.

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Changed my name to \"I like potatoes\"
October 20, 2009 11:13 AM
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@wcnghj: To me, that is just unthinkable. If I just spent time driving to the store, looking at printers, picking the one I wanted, and paying for it, then the two seconds it takes to wave my receipt at someone is not a big deal to me. Now, taking my printer back to customer service, getting a refund, driving to another store, and finding another printer is a waste of my time and sanity (I have a toddler and a baby to drag to those stores too). That's just my personal view, of course.

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Rey
October 20, 2009 2:46 PM
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@changed my name: I understand your perspective, but doing your part to change something that is wrong usually occurs when it's most inconvenient.

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MonicaDickey
October 19, 2009 10:27 PM
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Is this Home Depot's official policy or is this just an employee too stupid and tactless to make something up like \"to make sure you got rung out properly\" or \"to keep costs down we do this to weed out shoplifters\"?

But in this case the employee was clearly being a dick. I would have returned everything and bitched at as many managers as possible. It's the only way to get a shot at being treated right.

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Tijil
October 19, 2009 10:29 PM
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I actually don't have a problem with them \"checking my receipt\" and marking it as I leave.

Marking the receipt as the customer leaves prevents some OTHER person from picking up a dropped or discarded receipt, entering the store, and exiting with the items shown on the receipt without paying.

It is not an accusation against me, and it is a simple protection for the store. Marking the receipt on exiting is fine.

HOWEVER, they are NOT going to be given free reign to go through what are now MY belongings. I paid for those items, and ownership transferred to ME at that time, and they have no right to paw through my personal belongings.

That is where my line is: You may look at and mark my receipt as I leave, you may not search my personal belongings, you may not detain me without a reasonable suspicion that I have stolen something, and you have no right to threaten me or to touch me.

OK, lemme get my asbestos underwear on now for those who want to flame...

Tomas
University Place, WA

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Rey
October 20, 2009 2:48 PM
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@Tijil: If you care that much about protecting your favorite retailer, you should keep a highlighter on your keychain and put a line through all of your receipts once the transaction has been completed.

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friendlynerd
October 20, 2009 2:11 AM
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@Tijil: Yep, only receipt checkers have access to blue highlighters.

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Tijil
October 20, 2009 4:31 AM
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@morlo:
\"They can still enter and request a cash refund with a marked receipt though!\"

A marked receipt is not intended to prevent refunds, only to prevent taking out a second load of the same stuff using the same receipt: If it is marked already when presented it is NOT a valid receipt for taking merchandise from the store.

====

@tubedogg:
\"If what you support (and the supposed reason they do it) is marking the receipt to prevent it being used again, why not have the cashier mark it instead of some burly guy at the door?\"

Because it is pointless unless marked AS YOU LEAVE. :o)

====

@friendlynerd:
\"Yep, only receipt checkers have access to blue highlighters.\"

But remember, once marked with a blue/yellow/orange/green/whatever marker at the exit, that receipt is no longer valid for taking more merchandise from the store. The shoplifter/thief wants an UNMARKED slip, not a marked one in order to reuse it.

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drizzt380
October 20, 2009 2:51 PM
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@Tijil:
So, if I mark my own receipt before continuing to the door is it no longer a valid receipt? What exactly does a blue mark legally mean?

Not that I'd ever do such a thing. Its just a hypothetical.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 3:07 PM
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@drizzt380: I think stores use it like an exit ticket. They put a blue line through the receipt so you can not use it to exit with the same items 2 times.

That is why they do not search you so thoroughly if you are exiting with a valid receipt (unless they think there is something suspicious). But if you try to exit with a receipt that is not valid (ie has a blue line or whatever through it) they may become suspicious.

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Difdi
October 20, 2009 12:14 AM
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@Tijil: I agree with you. My property is my property, and it is my private property. If you want to paw through my private property, I'll be happy to let you, as soon as you show me your properly-executed search warrant.

I own a number of opaque polyester reusable shopping bags, and I use them instead of store bags. No one can see into them short of pawing through them. So a receipt check proves nothing, aside from the fact I have one. I have a contract with Costco, allowing them to take a felt-tip marker to my receipt, so I let them do it.

But when a receipt checker at a store I do not have such a prior agreement with demands to see my papers that prove I own my own property, now that's a problem. As before, I'll be happy to show you papers or my private property, just as soon as you show me your papers, which had better be a properly-executed search warrant...or you won't see anything of mine.

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secret_curse
October 20, 2009 3:06 PM
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@Difdi: Well, the owner of a store has the right to ban you from his private property. If you don't want an employee to \"paw through [your] private property,\" the store's owner can ask you to leave and never come back. If you choose to return to the store, you're guilty of tresspassing and the store can call the local authorities to remove you from the premises.


You have rights as a private citizen. So does the owner of the store.

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RPHP
October 20, 2009 2:33 PM
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@Difdi: I just wanted to give you a heads up - though I do not feel it applies in this particular case - there is such thing as the shopkeeper's privilege (the post notes this). Therefore, in certain circumstances a shopkeeper does have the right to detain you and conduct and investigation - of course there are many caveats to this but your whole point that one always needs a search warrant before looking through your stuff is faulty.

Note, you are also confusing constitutional rights v. torts. The GOVERNMENT must have a search warrant before searching your property and the remedy for no an improper search is suppression of the evidence. If an individual physically detains you to search you when they have no right to it is tort which does not invoke the constitution.

Also, just because you seem to be going on a rant about search warrants, the government does not always need a warrant to search you such as in a Terry Stop and Frisk.

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mralmostpopular
October 19, 2009 10:56 PM
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@Tijil: That's somewhat reasonable. In the end, I'd say that you're still inconveniencing yourself for the store's benefit.

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tubedogg
October 19, 2009 10:46 PM
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@Tijil: If what you support (and the supposed reason they do it) is marking the receipt to prevent it being used again, why not have the cashier mark it instead of some burly guy at the door? Much less confrontational, no line waiting to get out the store, but the store still gets it done. Win-win.

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XTC46
October 19, 2009 10:52 PM
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@tubedogg: Becasue marking it means you left the store with the product already. Still being in the store means you still need to leave with the product, which makes the mark pointless.

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morlo
October 19, 2009 10:44 PM
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@Tijil: They can still enter and request a cash refund with a marked receipt though! And since it's clear that stores can't stop you from leaving, only stupid thieves would even bother showing a receipt, marked or otherwise. Shoplifting prevention requires controlling the direction of customers with barriers and having eyes on them. Looking at receipts is ineffective and a hassle for the 99% of customers who paid.

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coffeeculture
October 19, 2009 10:30 PM
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I've been to that Home Depot...I'm not surprised, Filthadelphia is full of minimum-wage idiots, you should check out the wal-mart next door, it's like a bunch of ghetto zombies work there (moreso than your usual suburban wal-mart).

Here are two useful podcasts on this receipt topic from an attorney...quite interesting to read/listen to.

[legallad.quickanddirtytips.com]

and

[legallad.quickanddirtytips.com]

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3 replies
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lmarconi
October 20, 2009 12:21 AM
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@coffeeculture: they definitely receipt check at our local home depot

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Quatre707
October 19, 2009 10:51 PM
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@coffeeculture: How sad. In metro Detroit many of the part-time, near minimum wage retail employees have college degrees. Forced into that position as they cannot find a job in their field. I guess a good thing is that typical loss prevention employees in my area perform their duties while properly respecting consumer rights.

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coffeeculture
October 19, 2009 11:05 PM
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@Quatre707: Yeah that's downright sad...these people though, completely different. They're usually uneducated, have a horrible work ethic, act like you \"owe them something,\" and generally don't care about anything.

I'll say right off that this isn't *everyone* but having come from a state with a lot of eager/hard working immigrants giving you great service at Wal-Mart/Home Depot/McDonald's, it's kind of a shock coming to this city.

It's one of the reasons why I'm leaving ASAP.

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AmoritaKablamy
October 19, 2009 10:33 PM
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Just for giggles I'm tempted to tuck the receipt down the front of my trousers and when asked remove it through my open zipper.

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sandynlos
November 13, 2009 4:34 PM
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OMG hilarious...I'd love to see that happen. @AmoritaKablamy:

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rickn99
October 20, 2009 1:22 PM
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@AmoritaKablamy: \"Pardon me while I whip something out.\"

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menty666
October 20, 2009 12:37 AM
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@AmoritaKablamy: At the very least shove it down your crack, pretend to wipe with it, then smack it into their hand.

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tinky XIII
October 20, 2009 4:17 AM
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@menty666: \"Say, would you like a chocolate-covered pretzel?\"

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VagrantRadio
October 20, 2009 1:10 PM
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@tinky XIII: \"They're a little melty, but damn are they exquisite!\"

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Digitizer
October 19, 2009 10:43 PM
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She should have said \"Oh you wanna see my receipt? It's right under this piece of lumber\" and \"accidentally\" knock the guard's head off.

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SacraBos
October 20, 2009 12:55 AM
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@Digitizer: No, you hand him all the lumber, \"Hold this while I look for it\", and then slowly search your pockets... \"Found it! Oh, could you go ahead and carry that to the 'Returns' counter? That would be great...\".

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
October 20, 2009 12:54 AM
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@Homerjay is utterly alone.: I envisioned a similar Three Stooges-esque response on reading the article myself. While momentarily amusing, I wouldn't actually recommend it. ^_^

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XTC46
October 19, 2009 10:52 PM
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@Digitizer: Yes, inflict an injury on some minimum wage guy just trying to do his job.

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StanTheManDean
October 19, 2009 10:44 PM
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In most jurisdictions until a person departs a store with \"stolen\" goods the person is not guilty of a crime.


The receipt check does two things:


One) It provides a legal point of exit for stores with multiple checkout points. Cross the magic line, refuse to show any recipt, LP has previous suspicions of misconduct (video of hiding goods in a pocket for example) and you are guilty of shoplifting.


Without the receipt check the shoplifter could claim they checked out their stolen bacon at a register in the gun and ammo department and it would be up to the store to prove otherwise.


Two) Notifies employees that attempts to defraud the store through short counting or substituting low cost goods on the receipt will be monitored and caught. Again, provides a legal point of exit for the business AND an opportunity for the customer to correct employee made \"errors\" on the receipt prior to exiting the store.


Those who support Zero receipt checks are endorsing shoplifting and theft by employees.


Personally I wave the receipt, the clerk sees that I have one and I continue on my merry way. No harm, no foul.

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shepd
October 20, 2009 3:21 PM
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@StanTheManDean:

Item two on your list may not be legal everywhere.

In most places, if the goods are clearly counted by (eg: The cashier placed them into the bag), or prices entered by the cashier (where *doesn't* this happen?), mistakes are the responsibility of the store. Once you pay for the goods, they are yours, pricing errors, counting errors and all. This assumes you, the customer, didn't purposely commit fraud by swapping UPCs/prices, or hiding items inside other items.

Simple stuff like suggesting to the teller you think there's 12 buns in the bag, where there are actually 13, is the stores problem if they choose to trust you. Same thing with products that have the wrong UPC on them from the manufacturer (happened to some booze at the liquor store last month, actually). Of course, morally, this may not be as clear. :)

The store could blackball you and stop selling to you (or even ban you from the store), but they cannot ask you to pay for items they screwed up on.

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RandomZero
October 20, 2009 12:57 PM
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@StanTheManDean: To respond to your points in order:


1. No, you're not. You're suspected of shoplifting. No matter what store LP teams might like, you still can't be arrested just for wearing a bulky coat and putting your hands in your pockets a lot.


1a. A simpler, cheaper, and legal way of dealing with the \"bacon at the gun counter\" scenario, and one that most sensible stores practice, is telling the gun counter employees not to ring up bacon.


2. As I've mentioned before in these threads, the overwhelming majority of employee shrinkage (in terms of dollar value, at least) tends to go out the back door where there are weak security measures if any. Receipt checking does nothing to stop the TV someone just took out the loading dock.

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secret_curse
October 20, 2009 2:53 PM
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@RandomZero: Are you arguing that it's illegal for a store to ask you to submit to a voluntary receipt check?

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doctor_cos wants you to remain calm
October 20, 2009 4:57 PM
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@secret_curse: It is not illegal for the store to ask, and it is also not illegal for you to refuse and be on your way.

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fantomesq
October 20, 2009 3:59 AM
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@StanTheManDean: Theft does not require that you leave the property - simply aspiration (moving) of the goods along with the intent to deprive.

In your car scenario, the transaction is not completed until BOTH considerations are exchanged - your money is paid but until they deliver the car, the sale is not complete. In a retail store scenario, the goods are delivered at the register after being paid for, so the transaction is complete then - not at the door.

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doctor_cos wants you to remain calm
October 20, 2009 4:56 PM
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@fantomesq: Shoplifting laws vary from state to state. In the wonderful state of Ohio, for example...you must have been seen concealing merchandise in the store, you must be under continuous observation the entire time after you have concealed the merchandise, and you must physically exit the store.
If any one of these conditions has not been met, you CANNOT be detained on suspicion of shoplifting.
What happens is that LP officers will stop you short of these conditions and bully you into thinking they can arrest you to get you to 'fess up.
This happened to someone I know.

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40-40-5
October 20, 2009 2:18 AM
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@StanTheManDean: Hmm, that's an idea. Here's another: those who support receipt checking hate freedom.

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ivanthemute
October 20, 2009 1:55 AM
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@StanTheManDean: To quote: \"One) It provides a legal point of exit for stores with multiple checkout points. Cross the magic line, refuse to show any recipt, LP has previous suspicions of misconduct (video of hiding goods in a pocket for example) and you are guilty of shoplifting.\"

This argument, frankly, is bullshit. Target, one of the US's largest retailers, does not have a policy of receipt checking (as far as I've ever seen. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) At the same time, their stores are, by and large, laid out to where there is a single path of entry which can be easily covered by LP, and a single path of egress, where you have to pass through their registers to get to. Their \"magic\" line is a divider between the entrance and exit doors, not the receipt checker at the door.

Stores like Walmart, which not only have their registers set up in a method I like to call \"clusterfuck,\" but usually have merchandise available behind the last point of sale, have to arbitrarily setup a \"magic\" line where it's not simply holding stuff, but actually shoplifting. That's simply not possible in a circumstance where there is extra crap to buy after the registers.

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Difdi
October 20, 2009 12:19 AM
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@StanTheManDean: Yes, it IS up to the store to prove otherwise. If they can't prove it, that's their problem.

The merchandise is theirs until I pay for it. The instant the transaction is completed, the items are my property, not theirs. And just as I have no right to go pawing through their stock room or demanding to see the paperwork that proves they own their merchandise, they have no right to do the same to me.

Why is an expectation that businesses obey the law so controversial?

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StanTheManDean
October 20, 2009 2:51 AM
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@Difdi:


Ever go to a store with a Zero return policy? When does the policy become active? The moment you approach the counter? You haven't actually bought anything so the policy can't be effective. The moment you transfer your $ to the clerk? Under your theory, the moment the $ leaves your hand then you are stuck with the dud of a product no matter what. Fortunately for you the State does not agree with your opinion. The moment you leave the store? Bingo, correct answer. Check state laws. You can receive a refund for the goods (in spite of the \"transaction\" being complete) even when there is stated a zero return policy because until the goods depart the store transaction can be voided at no negative consequence to the buyer which also means the transaction is only pending.


Yea, I know what I talking about. I won the lawsuit on the Lemon of a used car. No returns, No warranty, yada yada yada doesn't apply until the car actually leaves the dealer's lot OR I place the key in the ignition. Their lot jockey wrecked the car moving it from the back lot (being prepped) to the front lot for acceptance because the master brake cylinder failed.


Judge said, even if paper work completed and $ changing hands the car ain't my car until I accept the key (and place the key in the car OR tow the car off the lot). No overt act by the buyer, no completion of the transaction.


Same standards apply in a store. Employee fraud, sticking crap in my pocket or whatever. Until I pass the magic line the bad things can be undone. I can have stupid theft's remorse. The receipt checker is there to prove I passed the magic line. They don't give a shit about my receipt, they want to see me pass the magic line with the goods.

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jessedybka
October 19, 2009 11:30 PM
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@StanTheManDean:
One) Shoplifting is not hard. And it IS up to the stores to prove that someone has shoplifted. That's the whole point of accusing someone of a crime.

Two) Employee theft is even easier than shoplifting. Receipt checks don't change this in the slightest.

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StanTheManDean
October 20, 2009 2:32 AM
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@jessedybka:


Employee works with customer to still big screen TVs by charging a roll of TP for each TV.


The idea of receipt checking is not to verify the TP on the receipt, rather that the customer has a receipt and is leaving with goods. The receipt completes the cycle of the crime.

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jessedybka
October 20, 2009 4:17 AM
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@StanTheManDean: I know that's ONE possible way to orchestrate employee theft. My point is that it's by no means the only one, and by no means the easiest.

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johnmc
October 19, 2009 11:24 PM
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@StanTheManDean: It *is* up to the store to prove otherwise.

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PSteele
October 19, 2009 10:57 PM
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By the guard simply saying \"In case you stole something\" he has no evidence that you have stolen anything, and thus if he does not allow you to exit the store with your goods, until you show your receipt, this is considered false imprisonment in the city I live in, and has been verified as such by my local PD.


As for those stores who do ask to see my receipt, for items that are not in bags, I understand this policy. However, for stores that stop me to see my receipt for all items in bags, I tell them no, and either walk past them without incident or if they stand in front of me, turn around and walk back to customer service, and return ALL items, whether it be 1 item or 50 items. You may say this is a waste of my time however, why do I want to do business with a retail outlet that wants to treat me like a criminal?


I do not understand how they can verify if you are a shoplifter by simply looking at a receipt and looking at bags without verifying the contents within. And while the door greeter is generally checking your receipt, five other people are walking out the door not having their receipt checked.


For the person that stated they just \"wave\" their receipt as they past by, tell me, how do I know, as a store employee, that you didn't bring in that store's bags, and an old receipt without checking it. And how do I know that you didn't steal anything by looking at your receipt without checking the contents of the bags? And are you saying that around Christmas time, when the stores are full, you are willing to wait 5-10 minutes in line just to exit the store, after shopping, and after waiting in line to check out?


Any store that treats me like a criminal, without evidence, is a store that I will NOT do business with.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 12:29 AM
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@tbax929 is just plain tbax929: Yes, that is what I do too. Home Depot has always treated people like criminals. They accused me of shoplifting twice and they detained my contractor because they thought he stole something. I stopped shopping there. Lowe's has been much more respectful of my rights (and their prices are lower).

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tbax929
October 19, 2009 11:23 PM
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@PSteele:
That's the solution. Stop patronizing stores that treat you like a criminal.

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MargaretMN
October 19, 2009 10:58 PM
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I live in the hood and they've been doing that at the Target there for years. Ha Ha Welcome to my world. Next up, shopping carts that can't leave the store so as not to disappear.

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Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather
October 20, 2009 6:48 PM
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@MargaretMN: these folks don't get it. I am with you 100%. I grew up in harlem with all the colored folk and it is par for the course as well as having to check your bag when you walk in the store.(meaning you give the guard your packages that you purchased from another store and they give you a placeholder ticket) If these babies even attempted to tell them no they would be escorted out and not welcome back.

There are bigger battles to be fought, having your receipt checked doesn't even come up on my radar.

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dyedinthewoolcynic
October 19, 2009 11:10 PM
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One good way to turn the tables on the stores is to do what I have done a few times when stores tell me I have to leave my bag/backpack behind the counter. When they tell me this I ask them if they have a camera set up or a policy to sign that states thay THEY are not going to steel my bag or anything in it. Why should I trust them and presume they are not thieves if they are going to presume the opposite thing about me?

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oneliketadow
October 19, 2009 11:15 PM
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The only store around here that has a guard at the door is Whole Foods, and all he does is stand there. He's never stopped anyone that I've seen. I do show my receipt at Sams because it's in the by-laws of membership.

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ludwigk
October 20, 2009 12:45 AM
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@oneliketadow: One time at whole foods, there was this tall black security guard, who was very friendly, and was greeting people who walked by with this amazingly deep, baritone voice. There was a somewhat confused looking japanese woman out front, and the guy asked if he could help her then started asking her again in japanese. I was pretty impressed, because the security guard at the grocery store is one of the last people you'd expect to be speaking japanese.

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AirIntake
October 20, 2009 2:30 PM
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@ludwigk: A black security guard that speaks Japanese? That's got to be rare.

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pecan 3.14159265
October 20, 2009 1:27 PM
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@ludwigk: I don't know...I've seen some pretty savvy security guards. In one of the parking garages in Georgetown (DC), I think there's an attendant who covers the night shift. The few times I've parked there, he had his nose buried in a math or physics textbook, so maybe the security guard had been learning Japanese, or was well-traveled. He clearly knew the woman was Japanese though, which is also impressive.

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PLATTWORX
October 19, 2009 11:22 PM
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I am lost as to why some retailers such as Costco and now Home Depot from this story think they need to treat customers as thiefs to control shoplifting while others like Target seem to have other ways of handling this that do not upset and annoy customers.


Why doesn't Home Depot call Lowe's and Target and say \"Hey, what do you guys do to prevent calling your customers thiefs and still contol shrinkage??\"

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friendlynerd
October 20, 2009 2:16 AM
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@PLATTWORX: Philadelphia Lowe's checks receipts, unfortunately. But at least they have Lowe's employees doing it and not rent-a-goons like the Home Depot across the street.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 3:10 AM
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@friendlynerd: If this bothers you, contact them at 1-800-445-6937.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 12:33 AM
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@PLATTWORX: With the exception of Costco and Sam's Club, stores usually enact this policies on their own, without the approval of their corporate management. It's often due to unintelligent managers who take it upon themselves to make up their own rules. I am almost positive that this receipt check conflicts with corporate policy. I don't know any stores that have a corporate policy which allows for receipt checks (or mandatory ID checks).

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XTC46
October 20, 2009 2:06 AM
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@ecwis: Many stores do in fact get these orders from corporate, which is how they can budget for the position when its time to review payroll.


It has been proven repeatedly that most sho lifters are deterred by people just saying hi to the or offering to help, which is why most of these positions are called \"greeters\" not \"security\"

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RobertBaron
October 19, 2009 11:28 PM
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Just tell the receipt checker, \"NO.\"

Their only recourse is to ban you from the store. They cannot physically stop you or intimidate you into doing anything

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Thricebanned
October 20, 2009 1:34 AM
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@RobertBaron: And how can they ban you if they have no idea who you are? So that isn't even a realistic recourse.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 1:47 AM
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@Thricebanned: With their surveillance cameras... That's just one option.

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supercereal
October 20, 2009 2:18 AM
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@ecwis: Yeah, I can't imagine that it's at all difficult to 1) get your image from security footage, and 2) sync that footage with your credit transaction.

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doctor_cos wants you to remain calm
October 20, 2009 5:00 PM
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@supercereal: So what, then, they catch you at the register and force you to leave without any purchases?

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UltimateOutsider
October 19, 2009 11:36 PM
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I don't steal anything and I know it's routine for folks to check receipts on the way out of electronics stores, so I just hang on to the dang thing until I'm out the door. It's really such an utter non-issue.

I will only have a problem with these policies if they start doing it at Fred Meyer, because I only go there when I want to use the self check-out, and I only require the self check-out when I'm buying condoms or massage oil, and Checky McCheckerstein doesn't need to know what I do with my purchase once I'm off store property.

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LatherRinseRepeat
October 19, 2009 11:37 PM
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Receipt checking isn't meant to deter random shoplifters. It's really a way to control internal theft. Let's say your friend works at the cash register. You bring up 4 items but your friend only charges you for 2 of the items. The receipt checker is supposed to catch this sort of internal \"shrinkage\" as they call it.

On the one hand, I can understand the reason for doing it. But on the other hand, I don't understand why they have to inconvenience everyone else because they don't trust their own employees.

To me, it would make more sense to just install video cameras over each of the cash registers and monitor the transactions in real time. Because waiting in a long line to pay for your stuff and then waiting in another long line to exit is just ridiculous.

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FLConsumer
October 22, 2009 3:31 AM
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@LatherRinseRepeat: Of course the whole fallacy of the receipt checking is that the loss prevention employee isn't in on the heist. Any security plan which puts the weight of everything on one single point of failure is bound to fail.

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BustedFlush
October 19, 2009 11:39 PM
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I always decline the receipt check. Only had a few times that escalated at all, and none that ended in my actually showing a receipt.

I'm almost always polite about it, but this guy would have gotten laughed at.

Once I went to Circuit City, shortly before they closed, and bought a set of speakers. There was no door Nazi. I went back after dinner to pick up some stands for the speakers. I refused the receipt check and the guy followed me out. I politely declined again, and he said he \"needed to check it\". I asked why. In case there was any issue where the merchandise needed to be returned, they'd need to see the mark. Ah ha. So I asked about the speakers I had bought 3 hours before when there was no one at the door?

He quietly turned around and walked away.

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tinky XIII
October 20, 2009 4:37 AM
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@BustedFlush: If this was after the liquidation started, then I know the reason: The liquidators were pure douchebags, and I apologize to anyone, now as I did then, who had to deal with that BS. We were just doing what we were told, and at my store we all hated it as much as the shoppers did.

Also, I'm German, and didn't mind being called door Nazi or worse, because that's what we were. I did get laughs out a few people pretending to be insulted at the treatment we were getting from the customers.

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windycitygirl68
October 19, 2009 11:57 PM
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From Wikipedia (I know, but I'm in a hurry): A receipt is a written acknowledgement that a specified article or sum of money has been received as an exchange for goods or services. The receipt acts as the title to the property obtained in the exchange.


If you are leaving my private property with goods I've purchased with my own capital money, I want to know that we've made the proper exchange in order for you to lay claim to the goods you're removing.


It is all very legal and proper. Show your receipt for the goods you bought and move on. Have a nice day.

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6 replies
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MMD
October 20, 2009 10:17 AM
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@windycitygirl68: Yeah, all legal and proper except for the principles of property ownership, privacy and customer good will that are violated. Have a nice day.

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secret_curse
October 20, 2009 4:37 PM
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@MMD: It's completely legal for the store to ask to see your receipt. They can't force you to show it.


It's also completely legal for the store owner to ban you from his private property if you don't show the receipt. If you choose to defy the ban, the owner can have you arrested for trespassing.

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dantsea
October 20, 2009 9:06 AM
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@windycitygirl68: If your register system is so piss poor that you can't figure that out at the time of transaction, no amount of doorchecks in the world will help you out.

Also: No. Kiss my white one-time-customer ass.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 12:23 AM
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@windycitygirl68: Nice try but once you have the TITLE to the property, you OWN the property. Once you own property, you do not have to prove ownership to anyone except sometimes to an officer of the law.

The time to make sure the exchange is proper is at the cash register. If you don't trust your employees to make exchanges properly, do it yourself or get new employees. But don't take it out on the customer.

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BustedFlush
October 20, 2009 2:18 AM
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@ecwis:

Amen. The cash register is a magical thing. It is the place where your stuff becomes my stuff, and my money becomes your money. Our transaction is now over, so have a nice day indeed, but you can't see my receipt.

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Cupajo
October 20, 2009 12:02 AM
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Any enforcement effort that treats honest people like criminals is the wrong direction.

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MEoip
October 20, 2009 12:04 AM
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When working in a parking facility for a pro sports team, we had parking ticket checker to make sure our employees actually gave customers parking tickets and didn't just pocket the money. In a sense we checked receipts not to to catcher consumer theft but to catch employee theft.
From my view I see the receipt check as an employee control not a customer control, it's not hard to steal from these stores but it's easier to conspire with an employee and steal at the point of purchase.
Either way I don't share my receipt.

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Homerjay is utterly alone.
October 20, 2009 12:20 AM
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More importantly, What do you do when the merchandise tag alarm goes of like is almost always does on me when I use the self-checkout?

Me? I just keep on walking. Have never been asked to return. It amazes me how many people stop like a deer in headlights when the alarm goes off.

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krista
October 20, 2009 5:44 AM
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@Homerjay is utterly alone.: I have only had the alarm go off a few times, and I always stop. Usually, I just get waved along my way by the cashier, who knew I bought a tagged item. I was asked to come back through once - it turns out the friend of my niece's had indeed stolen a pair of sunglasses while with us.

But the door alarm doesn't go off for everyone every time. It's not the same as assuming every customer is a possible thief, and you don't have to wait in line to go through the detectors. I almost always refuse the receipt check unless I am going out through the garden center, or have a large unbagged item like a TV.

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menty666
October 20, 2009 12:39 AM
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@Homerjay is utterly alone.: Well, if it's clothes it's in your best interest to stop so they can remove it. Some (but not all) of them contain die packs. It depends on the tag manufacturer.

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secret_curse
October 20, 2009 4:40 PM
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@menty666: The packs make you die if you take them off? That's awesome. I've only ever seen dye packs on clothes.

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Homerjay is utterly alone.
October 20, 2009 1:43 AM
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@menty666: Well yeah, but I'm generally referring to the ones that come pre-installed in boxes of batteries or stuff like that. The little stickers.

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oldgraygeek
October 20, 2009 12:21 AM
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My mother-in-law is a Home Depot cashier here in Delaware. Another employee at her store got assaulted & battered for trying to stop a shoplifter who was walking out with a cart full of expensive merchandise (without going anywhere near a cashier). The shoplifter got away; the employee got knocked down and hit his head on the concrete floor.

They don't check receipts at her store.

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krista
October 20, 2009 5:48 AM
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@oldgraygeek: I got written up for \"resisting\" a robbery at 7-11 (I just tried to close the cash drawer). Most retail chains prohibit employees from detaining a shoplifter. The minimal merchandise loss just isn't worth an injury.

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scouts honor
October 20, 2009 12:51 AM
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@oldgraygeek: I'm very sorry to hear about that but it wouldn't have changed anything if that store checked receipts.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 12:48 AM
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@oldgraygeek: This is one of the reasons that Home Depot's policy prohibits employees from accusing, detaining, chasing or calling the police on any customer for shoplifting. If she followed store policy, she would not have been injured.

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hansn
October 20, 2009 12:28 AM
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Why not, instead of refusing outright, presenting the security guard with a multipage, small type, EULA-like document written in dense legalese. Just saying something like \"don't tell anyone what you saw in my bag\" would take a few pages for a lawyer to write out. (The store is almost certainly not going to uphold any important provision in the document, so adding in extras like unlimited returns would be pretty pointless.)

The security guard refuses to sign, no receipt to check.

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krista
October 20, 2009 5:50 AM
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@hansn: That would be funny, if you had the time and inclination to mess with him/her that way. Personally, I prefer to save my time by saying \"No, thanks!\" as I walk by.

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nstonep
October 20, 2009 12:32 AM
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Actually...contractors are some of the worst offenders when it comes to theft. People don't know how much hardware (nuts, bolts, etc.) actually cost. The stainless stuff is VERY expensive and the packaging (generally from hillman) has no inventory control mechanism (ie no rfid, no theft tags, etc.).

Again I must say there's a reason for all this intrusive crap. If you take advantage of a store/steal stuff prices go up for EVERYONE.

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DrMorison
October 20, 2009 12:33 AM
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I live in Providence, RI. If a receipt checker stops you in this town, you definitely want to comply. The LAST thing you want in Providence is to have to call the police. Every cop that I have met in Providence is a bully who thinks that he gets to be the judge and jury of any encounter. They are simply awful.

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MMD
October 20, 2009 10:23 AM
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@DrMorison: So just roll over and accept the receipt check because of the bullying? No. That just ensures further erosion of your rights.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 12:35 AM
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@DrMorison: Maybe you should consider moving to a friendlier city (or state since RI is so small).

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arstal
October 20, 2009 4:33 AM
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@ecwis: Isn't RI run by the mob anyways?

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HIcycles
October 20, 2009 12:36 AM
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I wonder how this works with searches and seizures. I mean, once we purchase the item, it technically becomes our property, does it not? Wouldn't this be a form of a search?

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krista
October 20, 2009 5:56 AM
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@HIcycles: Search and seizure laws really only apply to law enforcement. And, actually, the cops usually \"get around\" the law by asking \"can we take a look in your car/bag?\" - amazingly, people often say yes even when they have drugs on them. Just watch cops, and you will be dumbfounded at the way people just give up their right to refuse an unlawful search.

So, the store isn't doing anything illegal by asking to see your receipt. But, you certainly have the right to say \"No, thanks!\" and get on with your day.

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VagrantRadio
October 20, 2009 1:29 PM
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@krista: From my personal experience, refusal to consent to a search means you are going to jail and you automatically admit you are guilty.

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menty666
October 20, 2009 12:41 AM
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Sure, you just need to sign this NDA and get it notarized. Also, there's a 100.00 viewing fee for the opportunity. Sorry, no checks, cash only.

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watsuk
October 20, 2009 12:49 AM
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Years ago in N Miami Bch Bloomingdales I purchased a hanging sort of clothes bag with 17 or so compartments for an overseas flight the following day. It was a fancy Samsonite, about 199 or so. The clerk took off the allagator style clip and I left the store via the mall exit and of course the damn alarm went off. I just kept walking and some kid came after me with some comment about the alarm going off and could he see my receipt and I said to him, then you should get it fixed and kept walking. I got home and looked through the various compartments and found 16-18 more of the damn things just dumped into one of the compartments, so of course the alarm would be going off. If I wasnt leaving the next day for Europe I would have taken the damn thing back or at least written a letter of complaint but I did neither and just avoided shoping there again.


You might also look at oneof my blogs for info on Tarbutt and their security procedures. [www.targetfiling.blogspot.com]

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supercereal
October 20, 2009 2:25 AM
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@watsuk: You were banned for a reason last time around. Please stop shamelessly promoting your worthless blogs in every post.

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watsuk
October 20, 2009 2:58 AM
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@supercereal:
Yeah, a lot of good that 'banning' did. Ban me again and I will just register again. BTW who told you that you have anything to say about whose blog is worthless, my opinion is that you should mind your own business.

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supercereal
October 20, 2009 9:56 PM
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@watsuk: Your opinion, much like your blog and apparent anti-everything mission in life, is indeed worthless when it consists solely of mindless self-promotion. That's not a subjective observation, it's fact. The notion that you have to completely mooch off of a legitimate website to promote your agenda just goes to show that.

Seriously, get a life. You're a pathetic excuse for a contributor to this site.

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40-40-5
October 20, 2009 3:57 AM
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@watsuk: I clicked on your link. Your blog is worthless.

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SacraBos
October 20, 2009 12:50 AM
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The way to solve these is with a flash-mob. Here's what you do:

1) Get a bunch of folks to go to the store at the same time.
2) Buy a variety of small, inexpensive items.
3) When confronted by the receipt checker, make them examine and check every single item. If they refuse, or don't do a thorough job, complain to the manager.
4) If at any point the receipt checker gets rude, have the indignation flow back through all your friends and everyone start returning their items.
5) Repeat at next store.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 12:58 AM
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To the OP, make sure you contact CORPORATE. It's likely that local management won't do anything unless corporate knows that their stores are acting like this. They may not do anything but it's always good to contact the corporate office about these issues.

Call 1-800-553-3199, and request a call back from a Regional Manager and hopefully someone helpful will call you back.

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Outrun1986
October 20, 2009 1:30 AM
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Receipt checking must be illegal now in NY state (or at least in my county), because I have not seen it in my area in at least 5 years. There are stores here like Walmart that have tried it, but a couple weeks later, the receipt checker was gone.

Now the only stores that do do receipt checks are the ones that are under store liquidation, and I still have no idea what gives a store under liquidation the right to check receipts. When I have not seen a normal retail store receipt check around here in at least 5 years. I don't shop at liquidating stores because well, we all know that liquidation sales are a bad deal for the consumer anyways.

I think the best thing to do would be if you don't like the store's policies or the way you are being treated, then return the merchandise right away and go buy it somewhere else. This would go for all store policies. The only way you are going to send a message is if you start hurting their bottom line. If a bunch of people start doing this at the same store and there are a bunch of transactions and then returns quickly after the stuff is bought maybe they will get the message especially if they are large transactions.

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Raachie
October 20, 2009 1:35 AM
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The big problem with the reciept checkers is they go on a power trip treating customers rudely and acting like they're the law.. That's when most of us will complain. Last time I checked, the only way they're even getting a paycheck is because of consumers.

But, let's not forget that these receipt checks aren't JUST to prevent shoplifting. They are also checking for accuracy at the register, making sure your cashier put everything in your bag.. Although it does leave a chance of them not scanning an item, placing them in your bag and make it accidently look like you've stolen. Either way though this isn't the best way to prevent loss.

They need to train their employees better.. learning Customer service the RIGHT WAY will keep loss at bay (whoops did not mean to sound like an employee handbook) and maybe they'd save a little on payroll by taking out these \"greeters\" looking for shoplifters at the door when there's someone in the unattended fitting rooms or a guy behind the melons shoving things in a personal bag or baggy pants. Now if that employee was out on the floor giving those ppl attention \"Customer Service\" maybe none of them will steal. But then of course that leads to complaining about that then wouldn't it...

If you aren't stealing then you shouldn't worry about giving 20 seconds of your time or getting a ton of attention, but at the same time places like Walmart (where I'm basing most of my comment on) need to re-evalute their payroll to make a much more effective way to prevent shoplifting rather than wasting time targeting everyone in a much unpleasing way. And teach these greeters that they aren't police officers.

If a customer refuses, they have a right to. Simple as that. Wasting other resources like calling the police isn't worth it and then you're wasting more than just time.

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Darkneuro
October 20, 2009 2:11 AM
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If they stop me to 'check my receipt', I go all the way with them:
\"Here's my receipt, shall I call over (look at the rec't for checker) Mindy to verify what all she ran over her scanner? How about the store manager just to be sure everything looks ok? You're checking all the bags, right?\"
A few times of being obnoxious about it and they all lose interest.

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pws
October 20, 2009 2:57 AM
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I don't think there is much I can do to change the Home Despot's policies, but I can save my sanity by simply going to my neighborhood hardware store. They don't check receipts when I leave the store, and recently when I bought a defective box fan and returned it, they didn't check the receipt for that either. They just handed me another one and said \"have a nice day\". Believe it or not, this is in LA. Now I just stay away from stores that treat honest people like thieves - life is short enough without their BS.

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PhilFR
October 20, 2009 2:59 AM
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If you don't want that kind of treatment, don't go to stores that provide it. It's that simple.

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SabreDC
October 20, 2009 3:14 AM
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@PhilFR: But the prices are so good! I'd rather go and complain about it on the Internet.

/s

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savdavid
October 20, 2009 3:09 AM
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As said before in these comments, just say \"no thanks\" or \"have a nice day\" or \"no, I didn't steal anything but thanks for asking\" and keep walking. There is not a damn thing they can do if you paid for the products which are yours now. Not a thing. I do it all the time at Wal-Mart and some of people know me and don't even bother to ask me anymore. Takes some of the fun out of it. Oh, I would love them to try and touch me to restrain me or call the police.

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ecwis
October 20, 2009 3:15 AM
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@savdavid: I like saying \"Thank you\". Much like \"have a nice day,\" it catches them off guard and makes them revert to their other job as simply a greeter.

Walmart never actually asks to see my receipt but they do check the people who voluntarily stop and show it. I don't understand it.

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SnoopyFish
October 20, 2009 4:02 AM
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I don't understand why everyone is getting all butt hurt about being asked to show a receipt. If stores think it will cut down on shoplifting then that's fine with me. Who am I to refuse, it's not like I am their friend so really; they don't need to treat me as their friend. As long as they help me out when I need to find something I am looking for and in store they have good customer service... then I don't really give a s**t.

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Decubitus
October 20, 2009 5:35 PM
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@SnoopyFish: By that logic, why not just strip search everyone leaving the store? If stores think it will cut down on shoplifting (and wouldn't it?) then who are you to refuse?

A receipt check isn't the same as a strip search you say? Both are inconveniences and an invasion of privacy; they just differ in degree.

If you don't mind showing your receipt, then show it. If you do mind, then either politely refuse when asked or don't shop at these stores. It really isn't a difficult issue.

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MMD
October 20, 2009 2:54 PM
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@SnoopyFish: Invasion of privacy is not good customer service.

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ctnchrisw
October 20, 2009 6:15 AM
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I don't know which way you complained to management, but if you didn't, go through their surgery on the receipt and rate them crappy and let them know this is why. For some reason companies go by the surveys a lot now and any bad ratings will get them screamed at.

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VagrantRadio
October 20, 2009 1:35 PM
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@ctnchrisw: They want to remove my pancreas also? No way I'm consenting to that!

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hobomike
October 20, 2009 7:23 AM
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On a few occasions people I know have left (unknowingly, of course) with extra merchandise that wasn't paid for. (It happens with small kids.) These checkers have never caught it. Part of it is that they are tired, bored, underpaid, lazy, etc. But I truly wonder how much it really makes a difference or whether it's worth it when the net effect is when they're pissing off paying customers.

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Red_Eye
October 20, 2009 11:29 AM
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A lot of stores have a no pursuit or detainment policy for suspected shoplifters. Find out if the ones requiring receipt checks in your area do. If stopped, detained, or pursued out the door like Patti above file a formal complaint in writing after returning all merchandise. In some cases it may not be the store acting like this just a few power hungry little Caesar's.

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4phun
October 20, 2009 11:38 AM
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I was mistreated at Home Depot and I went home gathered up everything I had bought in the last two weeks and took it all back. It came to a couple thousand dollars. I cut up my Home Depot Card in front of the manager and made it clear, no apology for their error, no compensation, - no customer. There is a Loews across the street!

Same thing a couple of years later when I broke down and bought a new high dollar range my wife wanted from them. The delivery people lied to my wife about the installation. They could not get it right and said all ranges look like that. I knew this was a bold lie so told them to remove it immediately. All kinds of calls ensued from HD over the following days.

No I didn't want to talk to them or hear apologies. If they hire cheap incompetent employees to save money on labor then they represent Home Depot and I will not deal with them.

You earn my business or I simply will not deal with you.

The world headquarters for Home Depot is just down the street. The owner build a nice aquarium for Atlanta.
But he has made a number of bad choices in running his business.

I am sorry Patti did make it clear to Home Depot the actions of one can loose it all for them. They just never learn otherwise.

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AkakmanH
October 20, 2009 11:43 AM
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A little FYI - Lowe's does not and will not, as a result of company policy, ever check receipts. So, for those HD shoppers, if there is a Lowe's in your area, you might think about switching. Lowe's policy also says that if their exit alarm goes off on mdse that has not been scanned and the customer keeps walking then you have no right to stop them unless you suspect a \"large item\" is being stolen.

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bugdog
October 20, 2009 11:45 AM
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I'm pretty sure I won't run into this at my local store. The last few times I've been in there, I was forced to use their self checkout because they had no other lanes open. I don't usually mind using self checkout, but when I've got bulky things that are crazy hard to scan or I have to wait 10 minutes for someone to verify that I'm old enough to buy spray paint, it's a little annoying.

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Bridonik
October 20, 2009 12:40 PM
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I usually keep my receipt handy and within easy access when leaving a store. I can understand items that aren't \"in a bag\", and need to be checked. I can also understand that I may need it on items that may trip alarms, like movies and such.

A lot of times when I have items that aren't bagged, I EXPECT to get checked, have the receipt in my hand, and offer it to the checkers before they even ask for it. Every single time, they just wave me by without even looking at the receipt, knowing I have nothing to hide.

What I feel sorry for is the \"security guard\", or whatever title they are given.

If you think you're having a crappy day by being checked for shoplifting, imagine what kind of day these people are having. You can bet they're constantly having to deal with irate customers who can't do a simple thing like proving you're not a thief.

However, that in NO WAY permits any employee to harass the customers in any way, shape, or form. It's a situation in which both parties don't want to be involved in.

Personally, I'm more annoyed with people who hang around outside of the door, waiting to ask me if I'd like to buy cookies when I'm leaving the store >_<

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redskull
October 20, 2009 1:19 PM
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It would be different if the cash register was at the back of the store and you had to stroll thru the aisles past all the merchandise to get out, but when the register is literally 10 empty feet from the door, what exactly do they think you're supposed to be stealing?

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sth9669
October 20, 2009 1:22 PM
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I worked as a LP/Yellow Shirt at Best Buy for 3 years in college, and I never did crap like this. I can't believe that they try this stuff! When I worked the door, I only checked receipts on orders with a big TV or multiple pieces that had to come out from the warehouse, and that was just to make sure the idiots in the warehouse brought out the Samsung LN-A550 not the LN-A350 (since they're in the same box) or else they didn't forget to bring the DVD player or something.

I never checked receipts because I thought someone stole something! If I didn't see them steal it, then I knew it wouldn't matter, there wasn't anything I could do about it anyway, and I'm not stupid enough to try getting in a confrontation and get stabbed by some crackhead who wants to steal a few CD's or a walkman.

If the door alarm went off and the person kept walking, I'd let them walk and say \"have a nice day\". If they came back, I'd take their bag and wave it through the sensor bars and if the bag set it off, I'd deactivate it, and if it didn't, I'd ask if they had anything else on them from a different store.

The problem now is the same thing that's happening with the police: you get a bunch of power/control-hungry a-holes who get a little taste of it and they want to go into Jack Bauer mode. Every time I go into BB, I just keep on walking, if they want to stop this 6'6 275lb guy, then they'd better get some help. . .

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CopyPaste
October 20, 2009 1:36 PM
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Am I the only one who doesnt think this is a big deal...

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redskull
October 20, 2009 3:09 PM
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@mwc5446: When razor blades are outlawed, only outlaws will have razor blades!

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MMD
October 20, 2009 2:55 PM
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@CopyPaste: No, you're not...but if you don't see it as a big deal, you aren't seeing the big picture of the endless encroachment on individual rights and privacy in this country.

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Urgleglurk
October 20, 2009 2:24 PM
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I just go to their competition rather than put up with this. This is one reason I avoid Wal-Mart. I have no need to shop where the retailer assumes that all customers are thieves unless proven otherwise.

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mwc5446
October 20, 2009 2:32 PM
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Great article. Also of note, our local Wal-Mart now had razor blades in hard plastic security cases. When you buy razors, the cashier has to take the security case to the customer service department to get it unlocked. LOL
Needless to say, I now buy them at Target.

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MMD
October 20, 2009 2:56 PM
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@mwc5446: Agreed. Any place that locks up their merchandise obviously doesn't really want me to buy it, so I don't.

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Colonel Jack O'Neill
October 20, 2009 3:02 PM
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What's the big deal about showing your receipt?
Just show it to them. Takes about 5-10 secs.
Keep arguing with them, it takes longer.

I always keep me receipt out, then they go and mark it, 99% of the time, they don't even check my bags. And it usually takes a couple secs.

Like I said plenty of times before, people just like to complain for no reason over some stupid shit.

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Decubitus
October 20, 2009 6:04 PM
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@Colonel Jack O'Neill: Just say, \"No thanks\" and walk out. Takes one second.

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Avrus
October 20, 2009 4:48 PM
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@Colonel Jack O'Neill:

I'll give you a good example. I walk into a store I frequently shop at, wearing a jacket I purchased there several weeks or even a month ago. I don't have the receipt for that jacket ... why would I?

Once I purchase goods, they come mine. Shoplifters don't sit and wait in a line for 5 - 10 minutes. They pocket the item and walk out.

I'd love to see stats on how receipt checking is in any way a theft deterrent. I don't believe it is at all.

Shoplifters pocket the goods. Internal theft occurs by employees. Neither is prevented by receipt checking.

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Nascar24Dude
October 20, 2009 4:02 PM
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@Colonel Jack O'Neill:
Um, it's not \"stupid ****\". We're talking about legal rights here. When I purchase something, it becomes legally mine. At that point, I don't have to prove that I own it to ANYBODY, unless someone at that store has a reasonable suspicion/probable cause that I stole something. Therefore, I'm NOT going to prove that I own it to anybody because I legally don't have to.


You may not value some of your rights. But I do. Today, it's right against unreasonable searches and seizures. Tomorrow, it's the right to keep and bear arms. After that, it's the right of free speech. Get the picture? Once the door is opened for one right to be trampled, the rest aren't far behind.

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u1itn0w2day
October 20, 2009 4:07 PM
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I can sort of see it. But on the other hand most exits and security are stationed with in site of the cashier booths or self checkout . They need a more full proof system than asking for a reciept . They should be marking the non baggable stuff when you pay for it .


Personally I would just place a uniformed security guard at the exits to make the amatuers think twice .


The professionals always seem to get away with it . I saw a special on CNBC about shoplifting and alot of it is done by professional shoplifting rings . Even the drugstores are targets . Ever wonder why you see cold medicine on Ebay ?

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TehQ
October 20, 2009 4:37 PM
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I can understand in this case all the OP had was lumber and obviously didn't have anything else. I use to work at Lowe's and push an entire cart of lumber by yourself needs both hands. But I don't understand why everyone gets so upset about it. If you shop at that store a lot and know they check receipts you should keep it out. Its not that big a deal just flash the receipt. Is it worth it to sue and deal with lawyers?

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Gracegottcha
October 20, 2009 4:43 PM
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Reading this I got a pretty good visual of what \"could\" have happened.

She could have turned her body when looking for her receipt, knocking the guy in the head with the end of the lumber, then again when she turned the other direction.........and over and over and over. LOL

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556guy
October 20, 2009 5:19 PM
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The HD in my area has a few self checkout lanes. Using these lanes would be the ONLY time I would even consider showing my receipt. If I had used a normal checkout manned by a HD employee, there would be no way in hell I would show them anything.

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JGKojak
October 20, 2009 5:37 PM
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Or... pay your workers a living wage with benefits, treat them right, breed loyalty, and they'll help you cut losses. I have a feeling most min. wage retail floor staff don't even bother reporting shoplifting when they see it.

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davidc
October 20, 2009 5:52 PM
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Except at Costco, I don't let receipt checkers \"read or mark\" my receipt. I do make a habbit of waving the receipt as I walk past them though.

More often then not, I get some snide comment from one of the employees ... then I just remember how little money they make and how they probably deserve the job they have :-)

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adent1066
October 20, 2009 6:48 PM
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My local home depot doesn't check. But I have been in Home Depot in certain neighborhoods where they do check.

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teke367
October 20, 2009 7:33 PM
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Outside of Costco, I can only remember actually being stopped for a receipt check once, after I bought a computer, and I didn't care because I was waiting for them to grab the printer out of the back, so I wasn't wasting any time.


I've waived receipts at security before, and they just let me go. I'm not sure if because this was sufficient, they didn't care, or weren't there to check receipts in the first place.

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JimJimBinks
October 20, 2009 7:47 PM
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A few years ago I was at a Fry's Electronics purchasing a new mouse and some RAM. On my way to pay for everything I stopped and grabbed a diet coke. I put everything up on the counter, and was reading the back of a book next to the cashier while she rung me up.
On my way out they asked for my receipt. I politely declined, walked around the person, and started walking to my car. He chased me, asked to see it again, I rolled my eyes and handed it to him. The cashier hadn't charged me for my diet coke and I didn't notice. I told him I would go back inside and pay for it.
The guy grabbed me by the arm and pulled me into the store, and then into an office. They called the police, the police reviewed the footage and saw that the diet coke was put up on the counter and the cashier didn't notice it. They escorted me out of the store, and on the way out, the officer grabbed a Diet coke out of the fridge, handed it to me, and said \"This one is on me.\" That was the last time I went into Fry's.

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Scoobatz
October 20, 2009 11:24 PM
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Someone enlighten me why people detest Home Depot checking receipts, then follow up with -- but, it's OK that Sam's Club does because it's part of the membership agreement. What?


That makes no sense to me. You're either completely for it, or completely against it. If you're against it, you should refuse to shop at Sam's Club, too.

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zzxx
October 21, 2009 4:11 AM
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Stores should have an in-area and an out-area, just like the NYC subway. That borderline should be the row of registers. People who go out and buy nothing should go through a special exit. I think there are few of these consumers in most 'destination' big box stores. Those people should be given some sort of security check.

Also, stores should have no right to deface my receipt. If I buy something that goes against my flex spending health care account it has to be fully legible. Otherwise I do not get reimbursed. I once bought an OTC drug at Costco. The reimbursement outfit did not honor my claim because of a bad receipt. I did not follow it up because I will hit my annual max reimbursement anyway. I should have. I wonder what would have happened.

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stlbud
October 21, 2009 3:13 PM
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Maybe it is time for the \"brick and mortar\" stores to go away. Many have forgotten what a real customer is. We are not a \"guest\". We are not someone to abuse like a brother in law. We're not a friend who sits on the couch and laughs at your jokes. We're the ones who pay the bills and keep them employed. If they fail to recognize that, then it's time to try something different. The stores think they have gotten too big to fail. As long as we put up with their abuses, they are right.

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Hello_Newman
October 24, 2009 2:03 AM
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I've worked loss prevention at a major retailer. To do a stop (which violates a persons civil rights)you have to see them steal something and testify to that in court. You can't stop them until they leave the premises. They have to be out of the store with a stolen item to show intent. That's all, they have no right to make you show a receipt. If someone stops or detains you inside the store, you can sue.

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P_Smith
February 6, 2010 12:21 AM
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Patti or others could do what I have suggested in the past: Make the store call the police if they're going to use it as a threat. Since you haven't stolen anything, no charge can be laid against you, and you're agreeing to be searched by a legal authority (which the rent-a-pigs aren't).

(1) The can't detain you if you haven't stolen anything. You can claim false detention.
(2) If they touch you without permission, you can file an assault charge.
(3) Standing in one place without moving (e.g. in the exit doorway) cannot be called an attempt to leave.
(4) You can rightfully demand the store manager or police since the rent-a-pigs answer to them. Or better yet, call them yourself.
(5) Openly record the conversation (e.g. MP3 player, et al) and use it in court. Stores may ban cameras, but they don't ban audio devices.

If a specific store or chain is being particularly nasty and there were a local consumer group, it would be interesting to see the group go in en masse as a peaceful protest: everyone buys something, then as they are stopped at the doorway, refuse to move and demand the police come. When the police are forced to appear repeatedly, who are they going to take it out on, ten different individuals or the store manager/rent-a-pig who keeps calling them?

Some are going to defend \"receipt checking\" and claim this is suggested simply to annoy other customers, but that's false. The goal is to make \"receipt checking\" more trouble than its worth for the store. Stores will stop receipt checking (read: harassing innocent customers who haven't stolen anything) when its too costly to do it.

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