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October 21, 2009 2:54 PM

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I would assume his company didn't order the refurbs directly from MS, but rather more likely a third party retailer - they would be the ones responsible for the mismatched power brick in all likelihood. That doesn't mean MS handled this properly - if you can provide a receipt, then they should have just gone ahead and replaced the part. Their customer service is just awful though.

In related news, hey Phil, since you like taking on the gaming industry (even when they don't deserve it) why not post about this [majornelson.com]

The short version is that MS charges absurd prices for their hard drives and memory units for the 360. Other companies stepped in and made memory units that would take a microSD card, and you can make your own hard drive w/ the right parts. Those alternative memory solutions will not work after the next dash update - an extremely anti consumer move if ever I've seen one.

6 replies

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October 22, 2009 1:21 PM

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@What The Geek: They charge absurd prices for everything on Xbox Live, also.

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October 21, 2009 4:58 PM

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@What The Geek: What a pile of crap. My stuff is all official, as far as I know, but the only reason I've ever considered an unauthorized hard drive was because the prices Microsoft is asking for HDs is just beyond the pale. They can claim they're doing this to prevent piracy all they want, but it's pretty obvious to me that at the end of the day, they're just trying to rope people back into paying through the nose for a tiny but officially-branded drive rather than picking one up on eBay that's twice as big and costs fifty bucks. Obscene.

Honestly, crap like this really tempts me to pack up my console and games, march on over to Gamestop and trade the lot in for a PS3. Sony's not really much better than MS, but at least you can shove any HD you want into the PS3.

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October 21, 2009 8:31 PM

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Not anymore.

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October 22, 2009 3:19 AM

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@trujunglist: Really? Sony got rid of that, too? Poor idea on their part, considering that if they had kept this feature and the backwards compatibility, those two things coupled with the price drop would have been enough to convince a lot of people to get on board with the PS3- possibly even if they'd already purchased a 360.

It really is a riot that both Sony and Microsoft are making such a big to-do about digital distribution and how it's the wave of the future, but neither company seems to have realized that in order for digital distribution to work at all, they're going to have to provide large hard drives at prices customers can actually afford. Personally, I'm not at all impressed with the idea of buying all my games online and downloading them to an HD, so the sooner this plan bites the dust the better, but sometimes I wonder if the companies promoting the idea even want it to work with some of the decisions they're making.

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Xerloq

October 21, 2009 3:20 PM

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@What The Geek: They say it's a move against piracy, but that's a red herring.

More likely they need to make up the cost of the loss taken from selling the console itself. Ultimately, that will hurt them because without cheap storage, I'll have nowhere to store Arcade Games and DLC, so I won't buy them.

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October 21, 2009 4:31 PM

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@Xerloq says Can I has Friday?: the console market is (queue dick vitale) \"all about the peripherals, baby!\" i believe nintendo was the first to figure this out (& still doing quite well with the business model).

i believe the piracy thing is a red herring as well, but it's possible that universal media could be used to hack games or even manipulate the xbox experience. hell, XBMC would never have existed if it weren't for exploiting the ability to bridge the firewall between console & PC.

personally, i don't give a shit about piracy, but if cheaters find a way to use media cards to run scripts that give them an advantage in gameplay, then i'm all for killing off their use. i hate cheaters.

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October 21, 2009 3:25 PM

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@Xerloq says Can I has Friday?: yea, the piracy / modding argument doesn't hold water. You can move files to and from a MS hard drive just as easily as a third party one.

As for the pricing, if I'm not mistaken, the 360 itself is profitable at this point. There have been enough hardware revisions, and cost cutting measures taken that they're at least breaking even, if not profiting on each console sold.

You're absolutely right - MS is trying to make a move towards digital distribution, and if people can't afford the hard drives to store all that digital content on, they're just going to be shooting themselves in the foot.

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October 21, 2009 2:54 PM

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Let's just hope none of those Xboxes go Red Ring of Death on you when your convention is going.

In my experience just call back and see if you can get a better rep. If not, EECB.

3 replies

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SigmundTheSeaMonster

October 21, 2009 3:53 PM

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@JPropaganda: This is where having a 2-line phone with hold works. Put the un-responsive CSR on hold, call again and explain issue to another. And check up on the CSR on hold...heehee...

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October 21, 2009 3:20 PM

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@JPropaganda: More likely they'd just freeze and/or scratch the disks beyond repair.

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squinko

October 21, 2009 3:30 PM

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@Scuba Steve: You know, when I heard from people that their 360 was scratching their games, it was usually because they had it standing on its side and then had tilted it or shook what it was on at some point. I find it hard to believe that the console just magically did that by itself.

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October 21, 2009 8:41 PM

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@squinko - is pretending there's a star: Yeah. I accidentally knocked mine off its shelf while adjusting my cords while playing NCAA 09...so long NCAA 09.

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coan_net

October 21, 2009 2:55 PM

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My question is where did he order the 20 Xboxes from?

If he ordered them directly from Microsoft, then going to Microsoft for the replacement should have worked.

If he ordered them from somewhere else, shouldn't he be talking to them?

3 replies

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saigumi

October 21, 2009 4:05 PM

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That was my first question as well. I can't figure out how in the heck he ordered refurbished 360's direct from Microsoft. I google'd, trolled through microsoft.com, and I still can't find anywhere to order refurbs from them.

I'm going to go with that he ordered these from somewhere like GameStop or whatever and that he is barking up the wrong tree until there is an update otherwise.

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AI

October 21, 2009 5:31 PM

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@saigumi: AFAIK you can't order refurbs from MS. The only way to get an MS refurb is to send in a busted system on warranty.

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pecan 3.14159265

October 21, 2009 3:19 PM

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@coan_net: That's what my question was. If he had ordered from MS, they would have record of what they sent him.

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Wesblog

October 21, 2009 2:56 PM

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Xbox support is not helpful at all. I called because I changed my Xbox live account to a prepaid card and they were still billing my credit card each month. The rep told me they NEVER refund any money and advised I dispute the charge with my credit card.

AMEX returned the money, but then Microsoft suspended my Live account. And they refuse to unsuspend, until I pay $7.95 it even though I have a full year of prepaid Live usage.

What a pain in the a__ for 8 bucks.

5 replies

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October 21, 2009 5:25 PM

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@Wesblog: The trick was, you put in a valid credit card number to get verified, then change it after everything has processed because it no longer need to verify the account number until the next billing cycle.

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Wesblog

October 21, 2009 5:59 PM

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@lundarius: Don't try that!

Those exact steps are actually what lead to my problems. I deleted my CC information online rather than calling to cancel my recurring subscription.

Microsoft didn't care that I had removed my CC number and accompanying identification info. They just charged the last working credit card associated with the account.

I'm not even sure if their actions are legal, but the options are pay up or no more Xbox Live. I can't even change accounts because the 12 month prepaid card is already associated with my current account and the \"no refunds\" policy applies.

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ubermex

October 21, 2009 2:59 PM

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@Wesblog: This is why you should NEVER set up recurring credit card charges.

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nofelix

October 21, 2009 3:24 PM

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@ubermex: How else do you pay for subscriptions?

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kexline

October 21, 2009 5:28 PM

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@nofelix: By buying an card for an annual Xbox Live subscription from Amazon, Best Buy, Fry's, Target, or your mom.

Besides, the direct subscription never goes on sale, but you can generally find the card at a discount and/or packaged with useful stuff. For example, my last card came with a keyboard. Best Buy wanted it gone, so the subscription and keyboard cost less than a subscription alone.

Same goes for Wii points, btw, though I've never found Xbox points at a significant discount.

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Several

October 21, 2009 3:15 PM

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@ubermex: Only recently was it possible to have it any other way. Previously they would automatically renew a recurring subscription to the CC on record, which you *must* have on your account when you sign up.

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Keen314

October 21, 2009 5:08 PM

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@Several: Since the 360 was launched 4 years ago you haven't needed to have a CC auto-renewing. When I got mine in '06, I got a prepaid Live card. Been using those since because they're cheaper than the CC auto-renewal.

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b4k4

October 21, 2009 3:00 PM

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\"He called Microsoft customer service...\"

Well there's your problem right there

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October 21, 2009 3:04 PM

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I can't remember for sure, but is the 3 prong cord a standard belkin type that is used for most all computer and monitors?

1 replies

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Several

October 21, 2009 3:17 PM

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@temporaryerror: No.

[www.amazon.com]

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October 21, 2009 3:07 PM

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Well, first off, we know Microsoft refurbs 360s - anyone that has had the dreaded RRoD can tell you that. (I was lucky - according to the serial number, I got mine back.)

I don't think this guy actually ordered the refurbs from MS, though. He should have checked with wherever he ordered them.

I have to side with MS on this one...something seems amiss in this story...

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October 21, 2009 3:11 PM

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There are 3rd party companies that refurb xboxes - if the console was refurbed by them, then they would be responsible for the warranty, and not MS.

2 replies

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October 21, 2009 4:50 PM

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@madanthony: Whether MS has a refurb facility to do it themselves or they farm that work out, it is not up to the end user to track down who fucked up the rebundled unit.

I am not a gamer so I don't even know if MS does direct sales of the 360 or they all go through third party distribution, but I agree with the others who said that the OP should have gone to the seller first. They in turn should have handled the issue for him or referred him directly to the entity that would do so. In any event, it's their name on the product; MS should have been helpful even if they didn't make the direct sale.

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cluberti

October 21, 2009 6:42 PM

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@Naame: MS doesn't sell or support any refurbished units unless MS did the refurb on a repair of an original XBox. If you *purchase* a refurbished unit from a 3rd party, they've refurbished the unit and Microsoft does not support said unit, the seller/refurbisher does. I've been through this, escalated to the top because I had trouble with one of my own original 360 units once it was repaired and then broke again. Once you escalate from the outsourcer back to someone who's actually a Microsoft employee, it seems, you can get straight answers and get things fixed.

However, it sounds like the one oddball power brick provided here was one of the older 3-prong units and the power supply in the 360 itself was one of the newer 2-prong units (perhaps the refurb on that 360 was the PSU???). Ultimately though, if he didn't buy a refurb unit from Microsoft directly (and he didn't, it's impossible), his anger and support call has been misdirected. That the Microsoft rep should have attempted to be more helpful seems obvious, but I guess we can't expect that anymore in this age of save a buck no matter what, even if it screws the customer?

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nofelix

October 21, 2009 3:22 PM

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Why is it that companies who have minimal customer interaction often do it quite decently, while those whose whole business model includes frequent customer service calls are so goddam awful at it?

It's like some Business Studies manual they've all read says \"Thou shalt have a customer service budget of exactly $50,000, no matter how many customers it'll serve.\"

1 replies

$\"user-pic\"$

October 21, 2009 11:32 PM

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When you deal with a small company, the person you're talking to probably does more that customer service -- they might be a marketing lady or an engineering guy who got tasked with answering the phones when people have a problem. This means that the individual is more likely to:
- Be interested in the company and knowledgeable about its products
- Think intelligently about your problem
- Have some personal stake in the favorable outcome of your problem
- Feel personally responsible for your having an issue
- Have the authority to make decisions that can set your problem right

When you get big, servicing customers becomes a full-time job -- actually, many full-time jobs. This means a support department. This means hiring people who just answer the phones all day. This means hiring people whose best option is a job that involves answering the phone all day, who never made any decisions that led to your calling on the phone with a problem, who don't get paid any more or less regardless of how your call ends, who really don't have the skills or inclination to think of ways the company could solve your problem satisfactorily at a minimum cost, and who in all but very specific cases can't do anything for you even if they wanted to.

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October 21, 2009 3:46 PM

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This is exactly why i am sticking with my original xbox...it's older but more support...via other customers...

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W10002

October 21, 2009 3:52 PM

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I HATE Microsoft's 360 support. I have a faulty Wireless adapter. It would connect for 5 minutes before disconnection. When I called MS support, they said that the problem was my wireless router, because they found that it doesn't work well with a specific Linksys router I was using, and it wasn't on their supported router list.

So after a few months I got a new router [hey my old one was working and I didn't want to rush out and immediately buy a new router]. This was a Microsoft router, and on the list of supported routers. But the problem still occurred. I called MS and told them they gave me faulty advice to begin with, and the initial problem was with the adapter and not the router. They refused, saying that it was passed the initial 30 [or was it 90] day warranty for the wireless adapter and told me to buy another one.

1 replies

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AI

October 21, 2009 5:32 PM

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@W10002: Except you reported it within warranty. If you still have the original case # it should be easy to take it to small claims.

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Naame

October 21, 2009 4:18 PM

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I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that whenever you buy a refurbished 360 from a third party vendor it means that the 360 was still refurbished by MS and was then sold to the 3rd party vendor who then resold the refurbished 360 to the customer.

In other words, the third party company is nothing more than a reseller in which case most (if not all) warranty claims occur between the customer and the original manufacturer. Therefore, it is MS's responsibility to replace the part since it is their fault that they shipped the wrong part to the third party company in the first place.

2 replies

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squinko

October 21, 2009 4:33 PM

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@Naame: GameStop has their own refurbishing facilities, so refurbished consoles you buy through them have been refurbished by GS techs and not Nintendo/Sony/MS techs. I don't believe they sell refurbished consoles from the companies themselves (at least they didn't when I worked there), but I could be wrong.

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Naame

October 21, 2009 4:35 PM

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@squinko - is pretending there's a star: I see. Well, maybe it depends on the vendor or maybe I am simply wrong lol. *shrug*

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October 21, 2009 4:34 PM

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Xbox support ticked me off once when I called reporting the red ring of death. I was intermittently getting the 3 ring/lights flashing when trying to start up the Xbox, and sometimes crashing while playing games.
The customer service rep had me unplug and replug my video cable 3 times and try powering back up, I than started to get full ring blinking red(all 4 portions), which is a problem with a bad or improperly connected video cable. The person was trying to get me to cause the 4 lights flashing so she could tell me a bad video cable isn't covered due to that only being covered for 1 year. (The 2 year warranty extension only being for the 3 lights, red ring of death.) After I started all 4 were flashing she quickly rolled off a speech about not being covered, not giving me a chance to speak, and than hung up. It was horrid.

My complaint letter got a RMA & shipping label in my e-mail 8:00 a.m. the next day.

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squinko

October 21, 2009 4:36 PM

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If Jon ordered these 360s through a third-party (he would've had to like many people are pointing out), he should've gone through them instead of MS. Of course you're not going to get help from someone that didn't do business with you in the first place. While it would've been above and beyond for them to ship out a replacement part for free, that's asking for a lot from any company that doesn't owe you anything.

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Skaperen

October 21, 2009 5:16 PM

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Always call back when you get a bad rep. Maybe you'll find someone else who happens to have a clue and didn't leave it at home. Always write down their name (although they may not be telling the truth ... I ran into this once many years ago) along with the time of the call.

I've run into bad reps and good reps in lots of places (even at Comcast). Roll the dice again.

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October 21, 2009 5:23 PM

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Of all the horror stories I've heard about MS's XBox customer service, banning gamers for using their REAL names in their gamertags (anyone remember Mr. Gaywood?), and the infamous RRoD, if I were a gamer I wouldn't go anywhere near an XBox.

I think anyone that DOES by an XBox now is a fool. Does nobody remember all the RRoD stories? You're basically buying a product that's guaranteed to fail.

I usually despise Sony products, but I've used a couple of PS3's. Very nice machines with an intuitive OS, and it doubles as a BD player.

1 replies

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Scazza

October 22, 2009 12:24 AM

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@Ursus Maritimus: Welcome to 2006.

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nstonep

October 21, 2009 6:37 PM

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If you're expecting working consoles I wouldn't have bought refurbished ones...hehehe...but yeah I thought they didn't change the design on the power brick. Who knows. Couldn't you just replace the cord?!? That would be hella cheaper (at least in shipping).

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jc364

October 21, 2009 6:39 PM

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At that point I would hang up and try again. You might get a rep that will actually help you out.

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October 21, 2009 9:33 PM

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While I know MS reburbishes consoles, I'm pretty sure only for warranty issues and not to be resold.

I think he needs to talk to the company that they actually bought the 360's through.

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October 22, 2009 5:16 AM

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When my xbox red ringed, the website was down and the phone representative did not speak English and did not get my e mail address correct despite the fact that it's a common English word and they had me spell it three times.

It should be illegal to pretend to have customer service.

I had the same problem with Dell, when the best I could get was someone who didn't speak English to read Dell's help webpage to me.

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Zachary Jacob Zblewski

October 22, 2009 6:40 AM

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As long as it is a \"Microsoft-Certified\" Refurb, it carries a 1 year warranty. This info is from Buy.com and the OFFICIAL xbox website. Have a look: [support.xbox.com]

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AshleyAshes1983

October 23, 2009 2:18 AM

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The Xbox 360 power bricks take standard C13 cords between your outlet and the brick. You know the power cords for your PC? Monitor? PS3 Fat? A million other electronic devices for both consumers or industry?

You could go to any electronics store and get a C13.

While some newer 360's use modified C13's with no ground, they can still fit no problem. I've done it.

Also echoing that people saying that MS doesn't sell refurbs to consumers anyway.

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narq

October 24, 2009 2:27 PM

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This is nothing. I had a digital rights battle with Microsoft for over 2 months. Consumerist never posted it but I got them to own up to their mistakes thanks to a few EECBs. It took several conversations with one of the main customer satisfaction people (who are like 5 levels above the bottom tier trolls). They screwed up on transferring my content and claimed it was my fault even though the xbox website had little to no digital content info. Either way, I won, got a free controller and my content. It also took them over 3 weeks to move my content because they didn't know how.

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