![\"user-pic\"](\"/css/images/default.gif\")
I just booked a flight, and had the option of JetBlue or American. It was $20 on JB, and I still chose them.
I just don't trust the older, establish airlines as much as the \"new\" ones - like JetBlue, Southwest (yes, they have been around forever), Virgon, etc...
I feel better now.
\"and the FAA is also considering the unusual tactic of eventually taking punitive action against individual mechanics or supervisors who may have signed off on substandard work.\"
I think it's about time individual people have to be accountable for their unsafe or illegal actions. Too many people hide behind the idea that \"someone told me to do it\". If something isn't right, don't do it.
Hopefully, some kind of precedent can get set...
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1263041-100x100.png\")
@ChrisC1234: They'll never be able to punish individual mechanics. They're all members of powerful unions. Airline mechanics unions are powerful enough to shut down entire companies, e.g., Northwest Airlines and Delta, if memory serves me correctly.
I think the worst they can do is force the mechanics to redo their certifications or require them to work on different model of aircraft.
@DragonThermo: The FAA can, and does, punish individual mechanics. The unions have no special appeal powers to the FAA. Unions are the NLRB's problem, not the FAAs.
@ChrisC1234: While I generally agree with that statement, it does depend on the culture of the business as well. If a mechanic is told that she will be fired if she holds an aircraft to make repairs or fined is she does not, what should she do? What would you do?
@teh: Airline mechanics, like other licensed professionals (e.g. pilots, Professional Engineers, etc.) have certain duties set into law that they are required to follow. It is explicitly codified in the law that \"I was just following orders\" is no excuse for substandard work. Every job must be signed off by a licensed mechanic, who even has to write down his lic. number in the plane's logbook, which is then retained for the life of the aircraft (which can be decades.)
The penalties for substandard work range from fines to criminal charges, depending on circumstances and motivation. The fines are often payable by the individual, rather than the company he/she works for. (If the maint. is never scheduled, or forgotten, the airline pays.)
A company that fired an employee for refusing to perform substandard work would probably have their operating certificate revoked, meaning instant bankruptcy.
I don't think charging the mechanics is the solution because obviously this is a top-down management problem. They were acting based on management instructions (supervisors as well).
Besides...MD-80s are old planes, they need to be replaced. Heck MacDonnell Douglas went out of business a long time ago.
it doesn't matter weather the aircraft is older or not, the most important is an adequate maintenance and that's obtain, doing it what the manufacturer mandatory in his manuals, following procedures correctly and nothing of this would be happening!!! the quality is on the process done correctly!! all this is a great logistic!!
@nstonep: Maintained properly, a plane has a more-or-less indefinite life. Only fatigue cracks to the airframe that cost more to repair than the car is worth are cause to actually retire a plane.
There are plenty of planes still in regular passenger service even older than AA's Super-80's. The DC-9 family of aircraft (of which the MD-80 is a part) have a reputation for being the most reliable passenger jets in the air. They just aren't very fuel efficient, which is why they are being retired.
Personally, I'd rather fly on a well-maintained plane older than I am over a badly maintained plane a year out of the factory.
@nstonep: Yeah, but you know, if the mechanics and supervisors knew that their butt was on the line if they did something morally wrong (like signing off on possibly dangerous planes)then they would think twice about doing so.
@nstonep: NW/Delta doesn't seem to be having any problems with their DC-9s, and those are even older.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1226904-100x100.png\")
@nstonep: Actually, studies show that old planes are just as safe as new ones when properly maintained. Jet planes are built to last for a very long time, and many 40-year-old planes fly everyday without incident. Since there is enough MD-80s in the air that companies are still making parts, there's no reason to retire them.
Under Canadian law I can be held criminally responsible for the safety of the people who work under me. I only have a few assistants.
It only makes sense that aircraft mechanics are held to the same standard when the potential safety of thousands of people are at stake.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-437778-100x100.png\")
@andrewe:
Right... so being the \"worry wart\" will end up costing you your job or at least bad performance reviews because the other guys don't flag as many problems as you do. This is especially a problem where the judgement of the repair is subjective.
Been there, done that.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1319474-100x100.png\")
I asked some people before but I am asking again because I still don't have enough responses. I'm doing my Master's dissertation on Airline Consumer Satisfaction/Dissatisfaction specifically investigating about fees. If you've flown in the past year please could you take the time and help me out.
Thanks! And when you're done there is a nice Thank You photo page of some of the travelling shots I've taken!
In regards to the actual article, I completely agree with the first guy. All the fines will just be paid in future airline bailout money.
if you need more inspiration to help me with my survey, I just found out on Ryanair, a person travelling with a suitcase weighing just 1kg(2.2 lb) over their limit [a meager 15kg] would pay £45 extra ($73) over whatever bullsht price ryanair shows as the fare. That's £20 just for going over, and then £5 for online checkin, £5 for paying with any card other than visa electron, and £15 for checking in that first bag.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1269364-100x100.png\")
Fining the ppl 'in the trenches' as it were does not seem right to me. Ultimately, management (equivalent of a Chief Techincal/Engineering Officer) approves the repairs and the costs for said repairs. Some joe that is doing repairs according to company policy should not be held accountable for those policies. The company policies should be based on FAA standards. If he is NOT doing the repairs per company policy then that is still managements fault for not having enough oversight and quality control.
It seems to me that by going down this road, the FAA will eventually enact some sort of TSA like organization in which all airline mechanics will work for and be responsible to the FAA. If the FAA wants control of the mechanics and the ability to fine the mechanics and they cannot 'force' the airlines to take responsibility, the mechanics being an extension of the FAA is the only way it could work.
IMO, they should file criminal charges against the Chief Engineer. If an airlines chief engineer is incompetent or unwilling to enforce repairs to be made to acceptable standards then that person should be tarred and feathered.
@DrLumen: \"Chief Engineer\"? Huh? All aircraft repairs are carried out under the supervision of FAA-certified mechanics. Certification of repairs needed/done is done at the mechanic level, not by the \"Chief Engineer\" of the entire airline.
@DrLumen: they should make all the people in the chain of command accountable - just saying it's not my fault and pointing fingers is why so much of this happens.
@DrLumen: The Chief Engineer can't be checking every single repair, there's not enough time in his day. If his policies are negligent then by all means charge him, but simply saying that he's responsible for someone else's screw up is insane.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-44395-100x100.png\")
@DrLumen:
FAA already has control over mechanics. Airplane mechanics are certified by the FAA. Mechanic are responsible for following FAA rules, and are subject to fines or loss of their certification for failing to do this. This is in no way novel.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-793795-100x100.png\")
Most of the people who signed off hold fcc or a&p licenses. This is no different then a stock broker getting fined for insider trading. Its a good thing.
bring charges against individual employees who signed off on substandard repairs.
Hmmmmm, isn't that what they do in China?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-7101-100x100.png\")
@StanTheManDean: Mayhaps you should look up the ethical and legal responsibilities of licensees before you make a stupid joke like that. As noted above, \"I was following orders\" is not an excuse.
How many of those mechanics could even read the instruction manual? Is AA one of the airlines who hired mechanics who can't read English. If so, they won't know they are being fined unless someone reads it to them or tells them.
Only in a liberal America could someone be hired as an aircraft mechanic and not be able to read the instructions!!!!!
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-918722-100x100.png\")
@Smorgasbord:
In order to get an A&P you have to be able to read, write, and speak the english language fluently.
Wouldn't AA have gotten a special flight permit to fly to the repair base?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-78576-100x100.png\")
@myonlyswerving: Yes they can, ferry permits are not hard to get and may include such restrictions as altitude and no passengers, etc.
The most the FAA can do is fine them and/or suspend or revoke their certificates if they have them. To work on at a repair station you do not necessarily have to have a mechanics certificate. (A&P). It is not unprecedented by any means. AFAIK it would be a civil issue and not criminal.
-Working A&P mechanic.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-326595-100x100.png\")
I recently booked a flight to NYC that was cheaper on AA but still chose Jetblue. I figured I'd rather pay a little more than be miserable and annoyed when I fly. Apparently if I flew with AA I would have also been risking my safety so I can't even begin to describe how happy I am.
If that's what's going on in America, just imagine what all the other airlines are doing.
This morning NPR had a story about how everyone else are sending their planes to El Salvador and other such countries to get their planes fixed:
There's nothing wrong with sending the planes down to El Salvador, the mechanics down there are certified to the same FAA standards that domestic mechanics are.
This isn't the first time AA tried \"creative maintenance.\" Back in the 80s they were changing engines in a way that wasn't recommended or condoned by McDonnell Douglas. This was done to save time and money of course. Well, after take off the engine fell off the plane because the pylon it was attached to was cracked because of the way it had been mounted. Even though the pilots could have landed the plane they didn't realize what had happened and down she went. Somewhere near 200 people died.
This is another reason why I quit flying. I think they take care of trains and buses better than airplanes. I certainly take care of my vehicle better than any airline takes care of its vehicles.
Stop discretionary flying. You will save a ton of money by not going on vacation. Can anyone here in the US really afford to take such a financial backwards step?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-25844-100x100.png\")
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-131723-100x100.png\")
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-4119-100x100.png\")
This might be more impressive if any fines AA might pay wouldn't otherwise be passed along to the taxpayer's in some kind of a bailout for the airlines every so often.
@leftturnonred:
I don't know that fines against individual mechanics would be passed on to passengers. The airlines only care about the fines they pay.
@leftturnonred: Bailout? They're just going to start charging a fee for seatbelts.