var json_comments = new Array("
\"user-pic\"
Oranges w/ Cheese hates what Christmas has become
October 16, 2009 11:01 PM
Moderate | Flag for review

Bleh. I remember when flying was fun. When they'd immaculately clean the airplanes between flights and the seatbelts would be nice and folded and ready for you. When the flight attendants were HAPPY, and didn't have to run a 7-11 in the sky.

What happened?

Reply
5 replies
\"user-pic\"
PatrickPortland
October 16, 2009 11:18 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: Maybe it's because we want, no, expect, to fly JFK to SFO for $99?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
floraposte
October 16, 2009 11:18 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: What happened is that we decided we didn't want to pay what that cost, and we turned our custom to airlines that saved us money by doing that. Inflation-adjusted airfares have gone down considerably. Those people who are willing to put their money into the quality issue fly business or first. The rest of us just wish they could get economy better, but we're not willing to add the premium payment, so the airlines have no incentive to do so.

In short, we got what we wanted. We just didn't realize quite what it would look like.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
jamar0303
October 17, 2009 7:30 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@floraposte: So how does Virgin America do it? Southwest? Better service than I've received on any legacy and cheaper too. Same for flying the Japanese carriers over the Pacific compared to a US carrier.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
floraposte
October 17, 2009 9:00 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@jamar0303: Never flown Virgin. I've flown Southwest, and I like it just fine, but it very definitely doesn't do it, if by \"it\" you mean provide airline service the like of twenty years ago. Southwest deliberately limits service to keep the costs down, in fact, which is why there are no assigned seats or meals, and they also have a model that only fits on domestic service, because it depends on the consistent plane model and the cheaper access to non-prime airports.

Foreign carriers probably offer closer examples, but they're flying with a very different customer base and a very different legal setup behind them (remember deregulation?), which sometimes includes government funding or even ownership.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
jamar0303
October 18, 2009 10:52 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@floraposte: And I wonder if that wouldn't be better. The US government also \"bailed out\" the legacies a few years back, and every time I fly United I wish they let them die. And personally I find Southwest to be limited but far better than the last few \"full-service\" US airlines I flew.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
thereij
October 16, 2009 11:11 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: You have to remember that airfare was pretty expensive back in those days. People also did not earn as much. Therefore, air travel was still heavily glamorized. It's not that way anymore with the advent of low-cost carriers. Low cost has it's price in reduced service. It's a shame, but it's the truth.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
jdmba
October 16, 2009 11:12 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

None of this is relevant - the 3 lines on which one now has to wait before dumping the bags(check-in, TSA wipe down, bag check) only brings you to the next nightmare line (take off your shoes, and put your laptop in a tray people ... jeez). Once you get through 1 hour of these needless communist-era-toilet-paper-line lines, you then have the honor of pushing back from the gate \"on time\" only to sit there so as to ensure that flight staff gets full salary and airlines get \"on time\" status. If you are lucky to actually take off, you will be nickle and dimed for everything, the ever shrinking seat space will get smaller when the person in front of you decides to lean back, and you are always under the threat of the Enforcers (previously known as the flight attendants) where you can be charged with a felony at their behest. Sure, raise prices for the honor.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
jamar0303
October 17, 2009 7:28 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@jdmba: And that's why if I fly it's going to be int'l; happy flight attendants that remind me of better times abound on airlines like JAL (featured in the article pic) and Singapore.

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
StanTheManDean
October 16, 2009 11:56 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Supply and Demand. Let's not get too excited because the commonly accepted laws of economics are being proven true.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
AJ_Syrinx
October 17, 2009 12:44 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Expect this consumer to fly less than ever. Heck, I haven't flown in a while and have zero desire to deal with airline travel anytime soon.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Jevia
October 17, 2009 12:59 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Makes me glad I bought my fare for Christmas when I did, even though I thought I had already waited too long to get a good deal (got a decent price, but not at the optimal time I wanted - which would have cost my family an additional $800-$900). At least I bought before the $10 fuel surcharge.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
H3ion
October 17, 2009 1:39 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

What with deregulation, that allowed airlines to change fares almost without notice, drop routes that they found unprofitable, and add surcharges and fees on a whim, it's not surprising that we are where we are. Add the layer of inconvenience required by TSA and the reduction in personnel that most airlines have gone through to save costs, and it's not surprising that air travel is about as pleasant as a long trip by school bus. Air travel is now a commodity, the same as buying milk at your local store and the principal criterion is price. When that's the case, it becomes a race to the bottom to provide the lowest price and still generate a profit. Something has to give and what's given is service, any pretense of caring for the consumer, and I'm sure safety has suffered a bit too as airlines try to trim maintenance costs.

The alternatives? First, re-regulate but expect to pay a significantly higher price. Choice two? If the trip is shorter than 6-8 hours (you know your own tolerance), drive. If you have more than one person in the car, you're saving a lot of money compared to air fare, fees and parking (or taxi) and you can listen to whatever music you want without headphones and eat whatever you feel like bringing along. We visit Massachusetts around four times a year from Washington, DC. I can't remember the last time we flew and I don't need a rental car when I arrive at my destination.

Reply
3 replies
\"user-pic\"
XTC46
October 17, 2009 1:52 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@H3ion: I agree. I choose my flight by the carrier now, I like United. They arent the cheapest usually, but the flights are clean, and I dont feel like my plane is about to fall apart like I do on american.


I wish I could drive...but im in hawaii and there are no gas stations between me and california (or roads)

Reply
\"user-pic\"
jamar0303
October 17, 2009 7:26 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: Not your flight. On the route I travel their aircraft seem to have a knack for going bad or feeling like they will. And they charged US$1880 for a restricted economy ticket (Shanghai-Chicago-Nashville). Not going to be my first choice next time.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
H3ion
October 17, 2009 1:56 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: I was driving on an Interstate in Hawaii and I didn't think about it until we had gotten to our destination. Interstate? Is there a bridge or tunnel I missed? BTW, your state is beautiful.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
boricuachick
October 17, 2009 1:54 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

I think my folks will be fine with my visiting in January. The airlines won't get me to buy stupid over-priced holiday tickets. I checked too...even if I am flexible and fly awful intineraries mid-week the prices still suck. So, too bad. I'll have Xmas in January. LOL.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
jamar0303
October 17, 2009 7:24 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Funny that you're using a picture of a JAL aircarft; they're in a spot of financial trouble right now.

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Mary Marsala with Fries
October 17, 2009 1:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Funny, I just logged on for a moment to take a break in my packing: I'm getting ready to drive 800 miles, and I'm grateful for the privilege of avoiding air travel.

I started bucking after 9-11, when the ridiculous \"safety\" regulations began to both violate my privacy rights and endanger my personal belongings -- now you never know what they're going to take, or search, or steal, and there's basically nothing you can do about lost or stolen items -- and then, as things grew ever more inefficient, to also take so freaking long and involve so much B.S. and unpleasantness that I frankly can't imagine ever going through it again unless I absolutely have to. I would seriously consider crossing the ocean in a boat, if I could choose to.

Lord I can't wait until there's another alternative, though. I'd be nice to relax on the trip (in a train, in a teleporter, I don't care ;) instead of piloting the whole way.

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
jamar0303
October 17, 2009 4:20 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Mary Marsala with Fries: If only I could do that on my last trip. Shanghai-Kobe. But here, airport security on both sides was extremely pleasant (Japan for obvious reasons, China- I'm surprised, but they're almost as good; way better than the TSA). It was actually a reasonable alternative to taking the ferry (40 hours during a typhoon warning compared to 2 in the air above the weather is a no-brainer) though I want to try the latter at some point because Kansai Airport is so darn inconvenient for getting to Kobe (seriously, took as long to get to where we were staying from the airport as on the plane between Shanghai and Kansai Airport; the ferry arrives straight at Kobe port).

Reply
\"user-pic\"
frodolives35
October 17, 2009 3:07 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Mary Marsala with Fries: I feel the same way. There is plenty of country to see between here and there.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
PLATTWORX
October 17, 2009 2:19 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

All these fees and fair hikes are a great way to turn consumers off to flying and make them stay home or travel locally.


Not exactly a winning business model long term IMHO.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
emilymarion333
October 17, 2009 3:31 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I am glad I already bought my tickets!

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
theblackdog
October 17, 2009 6:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I love Southwest for having no fee to change an itinerary. A few days after I bought my ticket to go home for Christmas they had a sale on flights, so I decided to check for a price drop. There was a $20 drop in price, so I pulled up my reservation, clicked to change my itinerary, and then rebooked the exact same flights. Now I have a $20 credit for the next time I fly with them.


I intend to keep doing this if the price falls any further on my flights.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
zzxx
October 17, 2009 10:20 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Consumers have the power to control the airline industry. Most flying is discretionary. I am amazed at all of the people who still take flyaway vacations. They must have no debt and be caught up on all of their housework. Otherwise, how can you possible be relaxed on a vacation? I haven't flown since 2003 because I didn't need to. Nor am I secure enough in my job that I am willing to take a $5000 backwards step financially. On my vacation days I sit at home, catch up with my housework, maybe barbecue, make myself a blender drink, and relax.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
jamar0303
October 18, 2009 11:08 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@zzxx: I don't feel the need to complain about any of the airlines flying around where I live, but then again, they either have good bang for the buck or there is a cheaper, more convenient, and more comfortable alternative on the route (ferry for Shanghai-Osaka/Kobe, train for Shanghai-Hong Kong for examples of two routes I like to travel). That and the government plays a bigger role in regulation here (it's China, after all).
And vacations to far-off places doesn't cost too much here. US$350 Shanghai-Kobe round trip first class (same price gets you a first-class cabin on the ferry with more relaxed security procedures to boot).

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
nstonep
October 18, 2009 12:48 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

What's that white stuff in the picture? The classic Christmas means wrapping lights around the micro-palm and singing carols in cargo shorts and a bad religion t-shirt.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Walkallovaya
October 18, 2009 5:33 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Are average prices higher or lower than at the same time last year? I have found them to be lower - so it's not so difficult to think they might go up. The NYT story is only on supply and demand, but price is more important.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
laughingweek
October 19, 2009 4:46 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

I recently bought a flight from BUF to LAX and I couldn't book because apparently the $272 price I was trying to book became \"sold out\" somehow....even though it was 2am and there were several flights listed.

I was forced to buy a $356 one the next day and within 2 hours of buying it, I received a \"changes made to your itinerary\" THREE TIMES updating 3 different take off times!

I love how the airline can change times on me after I've booked, but if I ever wanted to change a time after I booked, I'd be hit with $150+ in fees.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
HomerSampson
October 19, 2009 2:18 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Expect airlines to hike prices = Expect me not to fly...

Xx-Planes-xX Trains and Automobiles for me...

Reply
");