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Sue the pants off of them.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-490551-100x100.png\")
@FDCPAGuy: If he's sues him for threats, the collector should sue him for late payment fees and mental anguish. The \"victim\" here sounds like a dramatic deadbeat (yeah, he paid back the debt, but late).
@Shadowman615: Compensation for FDCPA violations is capped at $1000. I'm not aware of any relevant exceptions, though someone here might no better than me. Seems like a very inexpensive lesson.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-16563-100x100.png\")
...Maybe he meant, \"I'm gonna f*ck you up!\" in a nice way?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-24730-100x100.png\")
@Trai_Dep: He did wish the man a good day at the end of the message. That takes care of it, IMO. /sarcasm
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-17616-100x100.png\")
@Trai_Dep: Right...the tape cuts out before he finishes...it's followed by \"the elevator of the Eiffel Tower...if you're into that kind of thing...then we'll share some champagne, eat truffles, get a couples massage...and take a bubble bath...\"
what does WTSP mean?
@amberlink: CBS TV station in Tampa, FL. FCC rules dictate the W (east of the Mississippi), TSP stands for T ampa, S aint P etersburg.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-188062-100x100.png\")
@FLConsumer: Not all stations that start with \"W\" are east of the Mississippi, and not all stations that start with \"K\" are west of the Mississippi (one prime exception being KDKA in Pittsburgh, the oldest station on the air); but in the words of Damon Runyon, \"That is the way to bet.\"
@FLConsumer: Keep in mind there are exceptions to this rule. Example: WFAA in Texas is west of the Mississippi yet retains a WXXX call letter sequence due to the age of the station.
@augiet65:
So, not to sound all picky but couldn't Consumerist tell us that? Wouldn't that be um, just normal reporting?
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-545239-100x100.png\")
@amberlink: Or, not to sound all picky but couldn't you just click the link and make your own deduction? Wouldn't that be um, smart?
@squinko - is pretending there's a star:
Hey, I \"read\" the article with my eyes, NOT my mouse. So, since the link wasn't obviously underlined, how, without first passing my mouse over the words, am I supposed to know it's a link? I can't help it if fancy-schmancy .css stuff makes the said stuff less usable. And, I'm sticking with that.
@amberlink: The context of the sentence should be a pretty definitive clue.
\"WTSP obtained the messages, some of the worst debt collector recordings I've ever heard, and you can listen to them here.\"
@Smashville_is a statue of limitations: bash the commenter day, eh? I don't mouse over links either. I live in the world of KXXX stations and always have, and nowhere does the blurb reference a locale for the story or its origin. Contextually there was nothing to grab that said \"TV or radio station East of the Mississippi.\" And since Consumerist is acting like a news aggregator a lot these days, qualifying the sources of their links SHOULD be a part of their standard blurb.
@Smashville_is a statue of limitations: Hey, I thought it was something like the Wisconsin Traffic Safety Patrol.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1261150-100x100.png\")
Man, Debt collectors are out of control these days! I had a debt collector call my girlfriend's mom pretending that I put her down as a personal reference on a job application, and then they asked all these personal questions about me and my references and address and when I go where, etc. I couldn't believe it, all for a $5 debt because the dentist didn't charge me the right co-pay. . .
I would be absolutely thrilled if I got one of these messages. The opportunities for internet shaming are almost endless. I smell a dozen youtube remixes coming...
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-101046-100x100.png\")
Of course, we don't get to hear what led up to that. The complainant apparently cashed a worthless check at the check cashing place (breaking the law), and now he's the victim. Of course we're not hearing any more from him except through his lawyers.
And why is a Jacksonville story on a Tampa TV (WTSP is channel 10) website?
@doctor_cos: Tampa isn't THAT far from Jacksonville, which in itself is not a major media market. The Jacksonville broadcasters were probably too busy flagellating themselves over the recent Jaguars victories.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-78160-100x100.png\")
\"The complainant apparently cashed a worthless check at the check cashing place (breaking the law)\"
This is not true. He broke no law. The business model for these check cashing places is to actually encourage you to write them a bad check. They hold it in the hope that in two weeks (or whenever due) that they can cash it for the amount you owe. Taking a check that you know to be worthless when written entitles you to...Not much. You can sue the maker of the check for civil relief for a bad debt ,but you cannot obtain a criminal warrant for the bad check UNLESS there was a fraudulent identity or a closed account etc. I have been a bail bondsman for 11 years and I have NEVER once ever had a check cashing place take a criminal warrant for a check from their customers.They may pursue collection or write it off as a cost of business,but they cannot get you for a bad check They direct you write the bad paper,and that eliminates any means of criminal prosecution.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-244830-100x100.png\")
@doctor_cos: Also, breaking the law does not then entitle someone else to break the law in response.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-406173-100x100.png\")
\"Of course, we don't get to hear what led up to that.\"
Yes, people who write bad checks money deserve to be cursed out and told \"I will find your sister, your daughter, whoever this Ms. Debra Gordon is. I will find her, and I will find you, and I will f--- you up.\"
That is what you're saying, right? Or what exactly are you trying to say?
Threats, we have a problem with. An implication of possible harm.
Bouncing checks...not so much (actual harm). Or because he bounced a check to an (evil) check cashing place, this is more OK, or less not OK?
Not really sure who the victim is here.
@twophrasebark: How do we know that there wasn't a lot of threats and cursing going in the other direction first?
That's what I'm trying to say. @joshua70448: \"he's already repaid the debt...\" before or after the alleged phone call?
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-321187-100x100.png\")
@doctor_cos: Hint: when you have to darkly hint at nonexistent facts in order to support your \"the OP must have done something wrong\" trolling, you fail.
But to pretend you were actually asking a question, there is no provision of the FDCPA that says \"But if the alleged debtor cusses you out, all of the preceding provisions no longer apply.\"
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-570476-100x100.png\")
@doctor_cos: Did you read the post? \"The guy's lawyer says he's already repaid the debt Mickey is seeking.\" Sorry buddy, but he's the victim, quit trying to blame him.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1228022-100x100.png\")
According to the story, the debt collector's not all that good with finances himself, having filed for personal bankruptcy just a few years ago. Bitter irony.
@tbax929 is just plain tbax929: That's why they show up to your house with a crowbar, because they have two guys with an uzi waiting for them. Fat Tony demands his payments on time!
@UltimateOutsider: For a large sum of money. About $700k when he filed. This just makes the whole thing even more weird.
I don't know, it all sounds pretty reasonable to me.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-38607-100x100.png\")
@srh: Sounds predictable -- not sure about reasonable. Bad cop takes a job at a check cashing store and someone cheats him out of money, what do we expect?
@srh: Yeah, because of course someone who supposedly owes $300 (which, if you read the article/watched the video, you know was already paid back) deserves to be threatened with violence. His family, too, 'cause daddy's debt means that his kids need to get \"f***ed up\".
Okay, sarcasm off. Are you serious? Are you really saying that ignoring the law is \"reasonable\"?
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Friggin Steelers and their fans....
@apd09: They think just because they won 2 superbowls in 3 years, they the shi...wait! You're a pats fan!!
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-944941-100x100.png\")
Obviously Mickey must have left the message after watching the Steelers defense blow another lead. You can hardly blame him. I'm sure he'll chill out when Troy Polamalu comes back.
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Meet the next American Private Police Force recruit. AKA Blackwater AKA Xe
How come none of these guys seem to have necks? When they turn, do they do the whole body turn thing? Sort of like a hippo can run 75mph, but it can't turn or it falls over. I'm just saying, how come these guys never have necks?
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-47390-100x100.png\")
@amberlink: Being a meathead like that putz up there(I'm a Seahawks fan though so I'm not all that bad) weightlifting can lead to some really obnoxious side effects. Like no-neck syndrome and \"I gotta exercise or my ass is gonna turn to flab\" syndrome. It's sort of lifestyle but for some folks like myself, it's how I stay alive.
Beating diabetes, obesity, and high blood pressure, with the added bonus I can carry my tool belt up 10 stories of stairs and not get winded.
@amberlink: Not when there's not an elevator in that section of the building. :(
Being an HVAC engineer(partial knuckle dragging mechanic) means I get to fix buildings and go places where there are no elevators or easy ways to get to where I'm going. Hence the desire for physical fitness.
My tool belt weighs about 25 pounds and has suspenders so I look like Bob the Builder on roids. hah
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1175017-100x100.png\")
@amberlink: When you get big enough you don't need a neck anymore. Your traps just morph straight from your ears to your shoulders; it's actually considered a good thing and a rite of passage in some huge-guy circles
I find that if you mention 'lawyer' or 'Fair Debt Collection Practices Act' to these people, their behavior changes remarkably for the better.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-658088-100x100.png\")
@halcyondays: @LadyTL: Can't afford? You don't need to \"afford\" one. That is why we have the State Attorney General in very state. Their service is free for situations like this. And if you complain, they have to follow up and trust me, when any business gets a notice from the AG, \"halcyondays\" is right, they straigthen up really fast.
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@halcyondays: Not really, most of them laugh or say that the FDCPA doesn't apply to them. Plus alot of the time they know we can't afford a lawyer.
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I hate debt collectors, all of them can go the fuck to hell.
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@Colonel Jack O'Neill: Unless you're personally willing to employ every single collector so they can put food on the table, I suggest you stable your high horse.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1082905-100x100.png\")
Why do debt collectors do this? Several reasons
1) Consumers don't know their rights
2) The kind of consumers who have got so far into trouble that their accounts have gone to collection typically won't sue, as they don't have the money
3) getting an emotional response from the consumer actually gets results.
Please educate people about their rights so that they can fight back if they are in this situation.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1280624-100x100.png\")
These guys make me feel like the crying indian. I've been in the business almost ten years, and have run collection departments for very high profile clients. I have never (NEVER) had to get anywhere near the line in order to be successful. These tactics that get the press are completely inneffective. Was the complaintant scared in to paying? No he wasn't. He was motivated to sue, so clearly the collector failed. Whatever it takes to run these thugs out of the business has my full support.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-25844-100x100.png\")
@CracktheCrown: Another one here, I headed up bounced check collections for a restaurant many years ago. I was very successful and never had to resort to this kind of crap, because it just plain doesn't work. Some people, when you treat them with respect, will just pay up. The rest, you escalate to lawyers and go to court if you have to. When you have to get that emotional to just do a job then you're in the wrong line of work.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-143777-100x100.png\")
@humphrmi: Wow, collections for a restaurant? Don't get me wrong, I fully believe people will skip out on a bill and your job was necessary and valid - I just can't believe people would go to collections, and court, over a frigging meal. Was it an upscale restaurant?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-887707-100x100.png\")
@CracktheCrown: You probably won't hear about the cases where someone was scared into paying. Some of those cases might well be genuine deadbeats that can pay and are finally made to pay up. But some might be people that ended up paying this debt and not paying some other that created even more problems. You won't hear of those because these people are less likely to take it to the news media. These are people that probably don't know their rights.
So we won't know just what portion of the cases the people resist as the subject of this story did. But, but digging fully into collection agency records, it might be possible to find out.
@Skaperen: In my observational experience it is effective less often than not and I contend that there are better techniques that are more effective and more consistent.
Deadbeat or not, I've found most people can be motivated and/or convinced to pay without having to expose yourself to risk.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-254112-100x100.png\")
@CracktheCrown: Agreed. I made some financial mishaps just out of college and had a few accounts go to collections. I was perfectly willing to own up to my mistakes but the agents that were rude or threatening I ignored out of spite, and decided to let the statute of limitations run out on those debts. The few that were polite and willing to work with me I paid off. Haven't these collections agencies heard of the old honey vs. vinegar adage?
@wickedpixel: Obviously not. I had one take me to court on a debt I had already paid. I kept trying to tell them I had proof I paid it and they needed to double check their records. They called me a liar and refused to even look at the account. So I let the judge read them the riot act in small claims court. It was almost worth it, watching an overpaid corporate lawyer look like an incompetent boob and get his backside handed to him.
Police generally aren't going to pursue that unless it's a publicized case. File such a complaint with your local precinct and they go into the circular file. With a tape, maybe they'd call the guy and give them a warning.
Maybe with the publicity they'll put the bracelets on him, but then the judge is basically going to guy community service. And the judge will be ticked to be bothered with such a case.
Just throwing in some legal context...
\"It's a violation of blah blah blah\"...and yet...who's going to enforce it?!? It's like congress built a house with paper mache, surrounded it with a moat, but didn't give the white knight the keys to the gate so the black knight can come in through the drawbridge and pee all over the fine linens and portraits of john keynes.
@nstonep: It's a civil case anyway, not criminal, and some lawyers jump at these cases on contingency because they get 33% of triple damages in punitives. I'm not saying a $10 case is going to generate that, but enough high value cases keep the system rolling and put some very nasty collectors out of work.
@nstonep: Yes it does need improvement and a more clear presentation to the public. You can turn someone in to the FTC or you can sue them for a violation in court yourself.
It still should be much easier to figure out and do so.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-443428-100x100.png\")
@nstonep: Who's going to enforce it? \"That'd be the FTC, Bob.\" When you've been at your job a month & a complaint gets filed online w/ your name in it, you find out fast. I'm thankful for the recorded calls.
Under FL law, \"I'm gonna f_ck you up\" is considered verbal assault and is a 2nd degree misdemeanor.
Florida Assault and Battery Laws - Definitions
The following are the legal definitions according to Florida criminal laws.
Assault is defined as \"an intentional threat by word, or act that seeks to physically harm another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.\"
Assault is a second degree misdemeanor, which has a maximum penalty of 60 days in jail and a $500 fine. FL Criminal Statute ยง784.011
[www.myfloridadefenselawyer.com]
On a sidenote, after telling the man that and he encounters the thug in a public place with which the thug accosts the individual, the individual is not under legal directive to retreat and can shoot the thug under the FL \"Make My Day\" law.
@Chumas: \"Imminent\" is the key to that statute. Imminent, in the legal sense, usually means that the threatened act can be carried out without any significant delay. A guy shouting threats at you from across the street is creating an imminent fear of harm. Phoning from a house a few doors down is possibly imminent. A message on an answering machine isn't close enough in time, unfortunately.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-131723-100x100.png\")
I think he's been waving his yellow hankie for far too long.
Never mind Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, that HAS to be a criminal offense what that douchebag did.
After that guy left those threatening messages on your answering machine, wouldn't his showing up at your house pretty much give you the green light to go out there and bash his head in with a plumbing wrench?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1251980-100x100.png\")
He must get paid on a percent of what he collects. Times are tough. Nerves are fragile. Not too smart to leave that message on a recorder. If he gets fired, maybe the Steelers will let him sell peanuts during home games.
real men admit their mistakes and pay their debt.. indeed.
Federal court records show Swafford \"Mickey,\" also filed for personal Bankruptcy in March of 2009, claiming $717,000 in total debt, including $13,000 owed on a Home Depot credit card. He listed having $40 in his checking account and $5 in his savings account. Court documents also say Swafford had $421,655 in assets, and may have lost money on various investment properties during the nation's crash in housing prices.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-621269-100x100.png\")
But what if the guy Mickey called could genuinely use a good \"f--king up?\" Has anyone stopped to ask that question?
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-333123-100x100.png\")
Did anyone read the part of the story where this Mickey \"was fired from his job as an officer with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office in 2006, accused of using excessive force on a handcuffed suspect.\"
So Mickey is no stranger to ****ing people up.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-782863-100x100.png\")
I wonder if this guy got lessons in debt collection from the Mafia School.
Well if Jeff's debt wasn't paid off before, it will be after he gets done with Mickey and the company he was representing.
Go go gadget FDCPA!
The ultimate lesson in this case? Pay all bills on time and don't go to collection.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-327386-100x100.png\")
@Mr.Duke: Why do people like always crawl out from under their trailer when this sort of these things are posted? Guess what? People fall behind on bills for a myraid (excuse me, I better use a word you know, so let us say variety) of reasons which are out of their control. And with what the job market is right now, alot of people are falling behind.
I have a theory about people like you. You are getting alot of collection calls and haven't paid your own bills, so you get on here, and to attempt to make yourself feel better, you make stupid douchebag statements like you made. Now go crawl back under your trailer.
As for the article: This guy needs to be arrested. What sort of upbringing do you need to think that you have some sort of right to threaten another person. (Never mind, I know the answer to that.)
@thelushie: Now, now. I know many fine people who live in trailers and have nothing to do with the \"I'm so smrt\" OP-blaming cobag crowd.
@mythago: I didn't say live IN a trailer, I said he lives UNDER the trailer.
I just get sick of stupid people who make generalized sweeping statements. I am convinced they are hiding something.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-543146-100x100.png\")
@Mr.Duke: Reading FAIL. From the article: \"The guy's lawyer says he's already repaid the debt Mickey is seeking.\"
Try again.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1021770-100x100.png\")
@Mr.Duke: Yeah. Tell that to the millions of Americans who have lost their jobs in the last 12 months.
I have to wonder why people are surprised by this guy's comments? This is typiical behavior from debt collectors. Until the Fed gets off it's ass and quits worrying about how it can bilk billions of dollars out of Americans with bogus health care reform, and starts actually going after the criminals in the financial sectors of the country, nothing is going to get better.
To be honest, if the recording is correct and the debtor was hanging up on him and avoiding him, then yeah, I would want to kick this guy's rear end, too.
Everyone here can pretend to be civilized, but imagine your \"friend\" owed you a large sum of money and hangs up on you when you call. Some knee caps would have to be broken real soon.
In fact my friend owes me $32 dollars, let me go get my baby's rubber hammer ($32 dollars is not serious enough for broken bones....yet).
@RichasB: Actually, yes, lots of us are capable of being civilized, especially in a professional context, when money is involved. Maybe you can't. That's your problem, and probably eventually the problem of the police department where you live.
@RichasB: Are you being serious? No, in my world, threatening people is inappropriate and could get you into all sorts of trouble. Of course, I have to deal with alot of people who live in another world but...
That line sounds awfully familiar to me -- Oh that's right, Grand Theft Auto! Must be the 2009 Economy version, Grand Theft Collector/Grand Theft Corporation
He's a Steelers fan, what more did you expect???
WHO DEY!!!!!!!!!!
I went to the ER recently. I paid what I was told was my copay for going to the ER. I was THEN sent a bill for the \"Difference\". I called repeatedly to the hospital billing department and was given the run-around, hung up on, transferred, NO ONE wanted to take responsibility for the bill I was sent. I was continuously told just pay the bill and we'll figure it out afterward. So, it wasn't that much, I gave them my credit card number over the phone. They DOUBLE-BILLED the credit card. That was three weeks ago. Now, they keep transferring me between patient billing and customer service, BOTH admit the amount was double-billed, NEITHER want to tell me when I'm getting my money back. YET, even though THEY (the hospital) owes me money, I have been referred to a bill collector for an amount I don't owe.
Upshot, regardless of what I tell the bill collector, I'm told pay the bill and deal with the hospital or they'll ruin my credit. I told them that under the law they couldn't do that. Funny thing is, when you speak very calmly and with authority about the law with bill collectors, they immediately seem to go away.
yoi and double yoi!
I just love people who are stupid enough to hang themselves, without any help. Anyone would leave a recorded message like this that can obviously make the rounds as it has deserves what they get.
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Oh, dear. What on earth made him think he could say something like that to someone???
@Vanilla5: The fact that he's an ex-cop who kneed a handcuffed prisoner in the face and all he got was fired?