@u1itn0w2day: agreed. It's like the boss has hired people in order to start his own social club. There is this high Director-level guy here who has a bevvy of 25-35 year old beautiful girls working for him. How he got away with that, is beyond me, but his choice in females is impeccable.

@mariospants: ' ... want to be able to control their work force...

I think it's as much about something they can use to box you into the job and jump to their every command . If you don't have many other options ie college they assume you will be more dedicated to them .

What I don't get is alot of employers are high turn-over jobs no matter the education level so why they want you to treat it like your life and 30 year pension behooves me .

What I've noticed over the years as well is employers don't seem to mind the college age employees in their early 20s coming right from or going to school . But as an older adult many do not like it . It's not even a matter of scheduling problems or your productivity . I don't wether it's fear you will take their job one day , jeolousy , ignorance or you will leave .

And yes I have seen jobs if you don't go the bar or play golf with the boss/es your career will stall out permanently .

How many companies or employers can you even get a 30 year full fledged career out of ... So why expect that type of loyalty and behavior from your employees .

Move to Canada: plenty of jobs there. Apparently Saskatchewan in particular is paying people to move there to work in high tech etc.

@umbriago: Applebee's and their ilk don't like university or college grads: those managers want to be able to control their work force, not have them talk back in latin. Plus the perception is that an over-educated person would find the job too demeaning to do a good job.

Could it be possible that other lawyers perhaps graduated from non-T14 law schools and obtained jobs? Or that certain practice areas are overbooked while others are less so? UN POSSIBLE!

The problem is that you didn't start out talking about the cost of law school vs. the job market vs. possible return -- that's all something that any potential law-school attendee should absolutely consider. The problem is you made this bizarre (and parochial) statement that only a T14 law school is worth the money. Which is flat-out wrong, and is not much more than the "TTT!!!!" crap that is the mainstay of ATL's readership.

There appear to be many reasons for the increasing unemployment rate among young graduates. Some economists have suggested that the government may be at fault when they implemented the minimum wage law. Over the past two years, the federal minimum wage has increased as much as 40% from $5.15 to $7.25 per hour, discouraging companies from hiring young workers. Furthermore, companies are also subjected to state minimum wage law, which causes employing a young person that much more expensive. In your opinion, will a lower minimum wage be beneficial or will it cause companies to exploit youngsters by not sufficiently rewarding their effort? You also mention that job training programs may be helpful for youngsters seeking for work. I agree that this is a feasible solution for the problem at hand. By using their time productively, they will be able to equip themselves with skills that will come in handy when they finally secure jobs. Also, they will learn more about their job field and be more prepared when they return to the job search process.

Office Manager/Executive Admin
Date: 2009-10-04, 5:50PM CDT
Reply to: job-v8wwk-1406xxxxxx@craigslist.org

Hello Candidate!
We are a fast growing demolition service company and looking for a person with office experience, outstanding work ethic and great energy. Ideal candidate will be trained in all aspects of our office with a goal of becoming the office manager in 90 days. Position requires outstanding positive mental attitude and ability to handle high stress situations. Emphasis placed on PHONE SKILLS AND SALESMANSHIP, customer service and client maintenance. This is a real opportunity and is not a scam. But it does require considerable commitment on your part. Compensation will be $8 per hour for the 4 weeks of training then $9 per hour through week 12. After 12 weeks you will receive $10 per hour plus bonus based on growth.
REQUIREMENTS:
MUST BE A STRONG LEADER
1. Exhibit a positive mental attitude and with great personal skills.
2. Handle stressful situations routinely and have multi-tasking ability.
3. Practice outstanding phone salesmanship through confidence and trust building.
4. Balance toughness with compassion and understanding.
5. Be available Monday thru Friday 7:30AM to 5:00PM.

$2=26 pesos
26 pesos/hour x 40 hours/week x 50 weeks = 52,000

I hope you weren't planning on working for NBC New York, then.

NBC has awful hiring practices, I worked for an affiliate in my hometown for a few years and was stuck at the same hourly rate with a cap of 28 hours a week.

The people were nice and the job was fun, but the management and hiring practices that are allowed to happen because it's "TELEVISION" are ridiculous. Exclusionary members only club crap. It's still a job at the end of the day and should be paid accordingly. No one who works 15 years for a station should still be considered an hourly employee with limited benefits.

Just the ones that think emphasis on certain words is important then, since the rest of us are illiterate and unwashed who miss such things?

:D

A simpler way of boosting wages might be to raise the working age to 18. People under that age often times don't pay as much in taxes so it might raise tax revenue without raising taxes themselves. Combine that with testing of eyesight for drivers licenses and that might eliminate those that are older.

BTW circuit city found out the hard way what happens if you cut experienced workers in the face of cheaper ones...didn't work out well

An MS does not automatically mean high skill level(highly educated != highly skilled). I've found far more people interested in projects I've worked on than my degree.

Great! So now everyone gets fired when they turn 28 or whatever the age threshold may be? Think service at Best Buy is bad now...wait till it's only fresh-faced teens in the name of keeping payroll low.

there's nothing wrong with a english degree but how'd he end up going to brooklyn from the midwest?

He could easily get a job tomorrow morning teaching English in asia. Yeah it doesn't pay much but you get dirt cheap living usually for a year and you don't need to know the native language even to be a English major (which would be a plus for him because he could ask for more money)

That's another thing to is this odd idea as if jobs have to come to you. We're way too situated in the idea that everything is settlements...I'm sure the reaction easily is "I have kids and a mortage" ok but on the same note what about those that don't? You have to be mobile in order to survive. Darwin would agree and heck even those that agree in creationism would too.

@Powerlurker: Like the Judge says on My Cousin Vinny: "And that suit better be made from some sort of cloth!"

Also, my post focuses on the investment of going to law school against the return. I will agree that regional choices can be great if someone doesn't have a T14 school near them, but school is an investment. Before signing away their life, I just want to warn people that THERE ARE NO JOBS.

Yeah, there are slight risks like being wounded/ killed. But, really? How is that much different than living in L.A. or D.C.?

@yodel: That's exactly what I thought. What does having a straight thick penis have to do with languages or Homeland Security?

Being anti-UHC is objectively, unambiguously being anti-small-business.

"Remember, experience is the most important thing right now for college students. Anyone can get a degree, bringing value to that degree is the most important."

Anyone? Um no.

Think about it this way for a moment. If you are an employer WHY would you teach this person skills that can be used else ware? That makes no logical sense because if the job comes up they'll leave. Let's say you run a business and for no real reason you teach your employee Spanish. All of a sudden a major company from overseas based in a Spanish speaking country opens up down the street with tons of jobs for anyone that is bilingual. How smart was the move on your part?

As of 2004 only just over a quarter of the US population has a bachlors degree or higher

www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bac_deg_or_hig_by_per-bachelor-s-degree-higher-percentage

So if what you say is true then tell me why aren't these rates at say 50% or 75%.

Someone tried to argue with me on this before and suggest that "What do you expect that businesses would just leave people behind?" um..YEAH.

Why do businesses sponsor those on visas or outsource work to other areas? They can't get what they want domestically.

I know of a business in Mass that has work in the NOLA area. Do they hire people in NOLA? Maybe a few but not for the heavy work...why? Because it takes time to train, background checks, drug tests etc. It's a business that deals in emergency services and thus they can't wait three weeks to act.

Experience in a job unfortunately can be denied...how? Simple...someone examines the job and determines how much time there is to fully experience all ramifications. How much thinking is honestly involved in a given job? Ok so what is the limit in terms of experiencing everything possible. If someone worked in an office or retailer etc then what makes someone who has say 15 years experience any more of value than someone with 10 or 5...nothing really.

A company can go out of business and once that happens the records of such can be considered suspect. I personally know a few people that worked for retailers that went under. Nothing good or bad can actually be confirmed. With education though how many schools realistically close down?...not man....there's no M&A divisions of higher education, it just doesn't happen.

Anyone that "holds out" after awhile will be mistaken. Besides having a job at least makes it easier to network to find something better.

Lastly according to the federal government college IS experience. It isn't taken at the same rate as say year over year with a job but it does count. If you can't find a job and can afford to go to school it looks much better than sitting around.

It is true, starting a business forces many people to go uninsured. Just because you won the lottery does not mean you can expect everyone else to.

@MagicJewball:

As a hiring manager with a business degree, I shuffle the English majors to the top of any candidate resume pile I ever have unless I'm hiring for a job that requires extensive specialized experience.

We are in a dark age for communication, and I value a good communicator more than just about anything else.

The way I look at it, I can train someone to do just about anything required of my department. However, teaching a poor communicator who is an adult how to write or speak properly is a daunting task.

(Sweet merciful CRAP that first sentence is way too long.)

I think it's far worse for the average established worker, who can't beg a few more years of dependence on mom and dad, as at least some late teen/early 20s can. But then if you are going to have to endure a period of unemployment, the 2nd great redeprecession is probably a better time than most to be believed in the assertion that there was just Nothing To Be Found.

****NO**** on lowering the minimum wage. Jobs programs, taxing the hell out of wealth but giving breaks for hiring, whatever it takes, however "socialist" it is. I say the good of all willing and able workers outweighs the sanctity of capitalism, ruthless social darwinist flavor. You better believe a generation will suffer a lifetime of never catching up if we let the vultures use this as an "opportunity" to let more under-sustenance-wage jobs be created and further depress the earnings market.

I still want to move, but stuff like this makes me even more nervous...

@econobiker: ....and then complain that the people they DO manage to hire are ignoramuses with no work ethic.

You better tell your college bound kid to work his ass off and be able to get a job and go to school at the same time. Remember, experience is the most important thing right now for college students. Anyone can get a degree, bringing value to that degree is the most important.

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): There is a special place in heaven for your sister.

@utensil42: How dare you attack his important internal narrative that his success is due entirely to his being smarter than everyone else!

Seriously, so very tired of this "well I have a job so there's no recession" nonsense. I have a job too. It isn't because I'm 200% smarter than friends who don't have jobs.

@johnva: Bingo. Little Competitor LLC can't woo away qualified people if it can't provide health insurance, even if it competes well with BigCorp on salary. The large companies don't want to lose their golden handcuffs.

@WillB: Do you even understand that you are lecturing practicing, employed lawyers about the legal job market?

That aside, a T14 degree is essential if you want to
1) clerk at SCOTUS
2) qualify for an entry-level job at a national BigLaw firm, particularly in New York or Washington DC
3) dick-swing on law student/new associate web sites like Above The Law, so that you can sneer at any non-T14 law school as a 'TTT' and argue that any law school with a ranking above yours really sucks and the rankings are bad. Oh, and so you can complain that your six-figure salary barely covers your expenses.

Now, if what you're looking for is merely a legal career, a T14 school is not essential - and, given their tuition, may actually be a very bad idea. Regional schools can be an excellent choice if they're where you live and you want to stay there - because you will have access to a whole network of other Local Law grads who aren't snobby about hiring from their alma mater.

Now, it IS absolutely true that people are making a grave error if they think any old accredited law school = guaranteed big bucks. But that's very different than the T14-grad delusion that if you go to, say, a T15 school, you are doomed to poverty.

They are filled with people who are at or past the retirement age who either refuse or "can't" retire. I'm in an aerospace field, hence the rocket in my nick, and I am surrounded by guys who are 65+ who do fuck-all except come in to work and sit in meetings, which half of them literally fall asleep in. Those that ARE worth their salt don't want to take the time to part with that knowledge they have by actively teaching the younger guys.

My suggestion to you is also to learn what is referred to as "systems engineering." Its really just bullshit. I haven't met a "systems engineer" that does anything but write requirements documents all day, but that's what a lot of this industry has come to. If you like to get your hands dirty, you'd be better off going and getting a technical degree.

I could go on and on about this but I don't want to bore you with all my observations.

@seanhcalgary:
Here we go again. There are lots of careers an English major can pursue. The ability to read and write well is, shockingly, still appreciated in some sectors.

I have an English degree and have found great success in the insurance industry, where I work with quite a few others who have English degrees.

In the past 10 years, fancy job titles for menial jobs were all the rage. I did have a good job, but my title makes it seem like I was running the place. That leads people to believe i am overqualified for jobs, even when I am applying for jobs at my level, not above or below.

I've been told to dumb down my resume to get a job, which is a depressing thought. But what to do after 9 months of unemployment?

Um no offense but some of this is so obvious.....

considering how the credit market dried up wouldn't it make more logical sense to work and SAVE the money for school?

Unemployment rates per the BLS numbers don't count students to start with so these numbers are questionible at best. If someone leaves work to go to school they are not counted as being unemployed. Naturally students under 18 aren't going to be counted because they aren't even legal adults!

As for implying as if going back to school isn't going to give someone a heads up consider this.

1) debts are fixed but assets are variable. What I mean by this is that if you go to school and rack up debt...it will stay with you. Moreover if you can't get a job and you are in debt automatically you will do a lower job than you thought you would get. Work at a collection company sometime and you'll see a fair amount of people with degrees that simply didn't plan life

2) going to school does count as experience. Granted that it s a different metric and often times might only be considered half the experience as working

3) as an employer it is against HIPPA laws to ask questions about health...however you can assume things. Most colleges require you to have health insurance. Employers (outside of mass) don't have health insurance mandated. Would you hire someone who you AUTOMATICALLY know has had health insurance or one that you can't even ask? This might not sound like that big of a deal at first but trust me it's spreading around as a line of thought.

4) who honestly can say that their job is secure given all of the m&a activity? If you don't have a contract (and even then it ends eventually) then it isn't guranteed. And if someone simply maintains a job what does that mean to suggest "Well he or she didn't get fired or laid off so they must be a good employee" thats not a logical argument. Who exactly is "always" employed? Contractors are out of work, health care might be better but again it's not like you can simply just get into the field.

By the time I graduated, I already had 5 years of IT experience and multiple Microsoft certifications. I had already been working during school so the Monday after graduation was nothing different for me. It was back to work.

What makes YOU standout? How do you make yourself more marketable?

These days with employers, a college degree is a check box. Ok, you have a degree, you've met one of our requirements. Now what JOB EXPERIENCE do you have? 95% of us are going to school to not pursue a PHD, we're going to school to get a BETTER JOB.

Students these days need to understand the importance of getting work experience BEFORE graduating and A LOT of it. Don't set your sights for entry level. When you graduate, you had better be an expert in someway shape or form at a subject that is related to your degree. As this article clearly shows, competition is fierce and people need to take the initiative to DO something about it to stay ahead of the game instead of complain about it. No one is going to hand you out jobs, you've got to go out and GET it.

Spend your time wisely when you're in college because if you don't, you realize later on you're not young anymore and also you don't have the free time you wish you had back in college.

@RogerTheAlien: @mythago: Do you even understand why T14 is so important or are you just angry and on the internet?

You will face tougher competition for internships than you might have in the past, but you should still seek them out as much as possible. It is usually easier to land an internship than a full-time job and they both provide the same experience (even if internships are often unpaid).

The biggest boost from going to school is that it will do a lot for your résumé. Two to four years spent in school with no job looks far better than 2-4 years spent unemployed. Even if you're not getting the real-world experience, you're still keeping busy, and that's something employers always look for.

Good luck!

But but but it's ok, the economy is recovering and oil speculators are driving up oil prices again based on 'consumer confidence!'

It'll be fine. Really!

@ilves: Hooray for mischaracterising science! Sure, there's plenty of concrete knowledge one must have, but the upper-division courses are hugely theoretical.

Not to mention that almost all scientific discoveries have been either by generating new theories, or synthesizing different theories and applying them situations in a creative/innovative way.

Even in high school, (and definitely predominant focus in college) was an emphasis on problem solving versus memorising a bunch of facts.

Thanks for playing!

He now has a very secure job as a software engineer for a small but well established firm and makes $53K a year. I know his job is secure because the CEO of the company literally begged him to stay after several other employees quit due to some management issues recently.

@morganlh85: Yeah, I love that software makers often provide a reduced cost version to students but not to laid off poor SOBs unless they register with the community college....

@Jage: "highly skilled labor isn't easy to find."

But medium skilled 2nd world engineering labor working for 3rd world wages is pretty common.

@locakitty: My wife has been employeed for 15 years at the same company. Now making 60% of what she was because they ~reorganized~ and are outsourcing offshore to India. As thanks to them for their loyalty to experienced employees, she is quitting this month.

@u1itn0w2day: "I went to school but potential employers didn't like that I resigned from that job. And by the way that company and job has been downsized manytimes since I left. That's why I left. It was becoming a dead end job."

You needed to focus potential employers on "that your analysis of market and employment conditions with that employer led you to the conclusion that the company would eventually be sold and/or the position downsized. Therefore you decided to focus on continued learning versus stagnating in a position that had limited possiblity of advancement within that industry" or similar.

@nygenxer: Business owners always want the most experienced professional workers for the prices of an entry level worker...

@pollyannacowgirl: "makes me glad to have started out when I did (as a receptionist) when you could actually work your way up the ladder. Does that still happen anymore?"

Depends on who you work for and where. Alot of back office jobs are now outsourced overseas so that eliminates the "dilligent worker moving up from the lowest ranks" ideal of yore...

@mac-phisto: Said it right about zig-zag and pulling back to get forward at times.

@Haggie1:
Not everyone goes to college at 18--by choice, or through circumstances, many, many students are older.

@pecan 3.14159265: And what about all those ~undocumented~ (illegal immigrant) workers who have taken the typical age 16-21 year old jobs (typically using ID fraud of some method) such as landscaping or hospitality positions?

@H3ion: "Neither has a job offer or even an interview lined up."

The legal arena sounds like the manufacturing sector now!

Granted, I was graduating with a PhD.

But still. Maybe the kid has a Master's in English. Or maybe he went part-time for a year or two because he wanted to pay his own way and not take out student loans.

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): Yep. I went to a lib arts school and I have a degree in journalism. I've expanded my communication and English skills far beyond what I had imagined when I decided to pursue my particular degree. I'm very happy doing things that aren't directly related to journalism, and I suspect a lot of English majors are very happy about their choices as well.

(It's a sort-of inverted structure ... "project manager" is a low man on the totem pole; the engineers are much more important. So it's not like being a construction foreman or anything. I think her title should be "engineer herder.")

In the end, while I'm going into engineering, I talked about working in a restaurant more during a recent interview because of the high stress environment which required some insane time management skills and a willingness to help others. While I did talk about my engineering job a little bit, I don't feel the take away life skills I've learned from it are nearly enough to show I'm a competent hard worker... about a week after the interview, I had a call back and a job offer in my inbox.

So don't exclude a restaurant job unless you can't figure out a way to use it to your advantage. Most people have worked in a restaurant at one time in their life and this doesn't exclude hiring managers and they might very well look at your willingness to work hard for little pay as a good quality for your dream job.

So if you go to a T14 law school and rack up six-figure debt, you don't have that guarantee of a $160K job waiting for you at the end. If you had more modest aspirations (say, working in the DA's office, or getting a job at a law firm in your hometown rather than in NY or DC), it might have been a lot smarter to go to a less-expensive school.

But of course without that T14 degree you can't swagger around places like ATL crowing about how everybody at a school lower-ranked than yours is a "TTT".

You're an engineer, right?

So basically I'm going to HAVE to go back to school in order to get a job in the field I already studied. Sigh.

The people in the entry-level jobs when they return will be better qualified and will accelerate faster than the people studied in the statistics mentioned.

The people in the entry-level jobs when they return may be better qualified and might accelerate faster than the people studied in the statistics mentioned. If they spend the time not in school or otherwise pursuing training, if they spend the time waiting tables or at Walmart, if they spend the time living in Mom and Dad's basement because they can't afford anything else, then quite likely they won't end up better off once jobs are more available.

The statistics referred to here are talking about averages in terms of overall income. Clearly there will be people who are outliers in the positive direction, doing significantly better than expected, but that does not negate the overall trend.

Besides, the data here are looking at historical trends after downturns. This one is not all that different than ones in the past, so we're assuming it will follow pattern. Granted, it may not, but in the past, people who have been "late bloomers" career-wise, due to economic crunches, have suffered for it for longer than the months/years they were out of work.

Thank you!

But can you juggle?@2Wheelsor4: The Moto-Stig:

Where do you guys get off saying that all science does is teach fact and repetitively at that? Science is the pursuit of understanding the universe and everything it contains. By definition, we don't know how everything works, but we have theories. If you went to a crappy school or think you know science, then maybe it is the rote memorization and repetition of facts, but if you went to a great school which challenged your mind and perception, you'd realize that by choosing a science major, you leave school being certain about less of how the universe works, no more. Things change in science, however it has been slower lately since we don't have the technology or capability just yet to prove/disprove novel ideas in quantum physics, relativity, string theory, etc.
And if you think engineering doesn't change, I'll leave you with one thing: the memristor [en.wikipedia.org]

Darn it... I was trying so hard, too.

@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter:
Well, my brother's four emmys seem to indicate his English degree is worth something.

He felt proud, too, that Pepsi trained him to drive big rigs. Said Pepsi even paid him while they trained him, and about 5 miles up the road was a Roadmaster Driving School that had people paying them $5k to learn to drive rigs to get their CDLs.

I know that's why I still work for my local movie theater one night a week: extra pocket money that's just enough to cover what I buy in comic books each month, and getting into movies free saves me more money on top of that.

One of the managers showed me all the applications they've had over the summer months, and it literally took up like 1/3 of a filing cabinet drawer. She showed me this because we were having issues with some employees in the area I work in (projection), and said that she didn't care about the attitudes of the employees we were having issues with, because she had over 150 other applicants to choose from to replace them. While it wouldn't be ideal (takes several months to properly train someone to work in a projection booth), the point was that they aren't hurting for fresh bodies to get in there if they needed them.

I think we and most other companies hold on to applications for about 6 months to a year, and after that simply file them in a bankers box in a storage area, or destroy them.

I end up telling a lot of my younger friends this: don't take your job for granted now, because I guarantee there are around 200 other people out there that your boss can hire to replace you, so they won't care of you threaten to quit, they'll just have a fresh body in there a week later. Granted, they should never have this opinion of their job, but now more than ever they should appreciate what they have.

I spent 6 months unemployed, from January 14th to mid-July. Working a pretty good job now, not too different from what I was doing before, only I'm making $6k less a year than I was before. Didn't think it would be too difficult to adjust to the change of income, but it's been a bit harder than I thought it would be.

Basically I've had to retrain myself to really evaluate spending on things, and even to adjust savings a tiny bit. Before I was laid off I was clearing about $3k a month after taxes, so I was throwing $1k into savings, spending another $1k on paying down debt (read: student loans), and the rest, well, the rest I could just do whatever with. The whole time I was living at home at the suggestion of my parents in an effort to do what I was doing: saving a ton of money, and paying off a ton of debt. Planned on staying for around 2 years at minimum, because at that rate I could save around $25k and pay off the same amount in student loans, or roughly half of what I owe.

I wouldn't exactly say I'm struggling, but I have had to adjust quite a bit from where I was to where I am now. Does suck to think of other friends of mine who didn't get laid off and had jobs the whole time, though. I had been planning on stepping into a newer used car this past February or March, from my 96 Accord (which I still drive), to a mid-2000s Accord or Civic, nothing too fancy, but definitely better than what I had. Now I've plunked nearly another $1000 in repairs into my car (new brakes, pads, rotors, master cylinder, battery, general maintenance, etc.) that I would have much rather plunked into something better.

**sigh** Cest la vie.

@Con Seannery: You seem to have a problem with people whose parents are generous. I'm really not sure why - education is what you make of it, regardless of who pays.

@Eldritch: A good English program at a University will teach you how to think and apply theories/frameworks to imprecise and fluid subjects. In my view, college isn't as much WHAT you learn as the process of learning how to think and learn. Except for hard science, there you just learn facts, which are also good, in a different way.

@SnoopyFish: This might not be that bad for you, by the time you graduate the economy might be better, and if you can get a job right after graduation you're probably good

Yeah, totally useless major for me (but it was easy and Mechanical Engineering was hard and made me failure-prone). Thank God I have an IT and project management background.

But, in all seriousness, I think they become lawyers. Because we need more of those, ya know. We don't have anywhere NEAR enough litigation in the US.

THE MORE YOU KNOW!

I left my 6 figure salary+nice benes to start a business during the downturn in the economy.

Go to ehealthinsurance.com and get a quote.

It's certainly more expensive if you have family members and have preexisting conditions, but it's not unpossible.

@QADude: I believe the general point is that you'll never quite make up that time. And that actually makes perfect sense: If you're just starting out in the job market, what matters isn't when you got your degree but how much (and how long) have you had experience. If you start out with 2 years less experience than someone else, on average you'll stay 2 years behind them in the overall salary / income curve indefinitely. Luck or no, you're just going to be a bit behind.

This is going to HAVE To happen.

I saw the writing on the wall when I was in the AF.

You have to give people a reason to want to participate in society.

Perl and ADA are still used extensively in the defense industry. Python is a rapidly growing user base as well and it is literally fantastic as a rapid prototyping language. Knowing only compiled languages is a severe limitation.

"Oh wow I get 200k!?!" "Oh wait...taxes..." "Oh wait...I have to live in Afghanistan and get shot at" "Oh wait...I have to get butt raped"...

Schools that consistently rank in the top 14

The "Top Fourteen" schools according to US News and World Report Rankings are (in alphabetical order):[21]

* Columbia Law School, Columbia University, in New York, NY.
* Cornell Law School, Cornell University, in Ithaca, NY.
* Duke University School of Law, Duke University, in Durham, NC.
* Georgetown University Law Center, Georgetown University, in Washington, DC.
* Harvard Law School, Harvard University, in Cambridge, MA.
* New York University School of Law, New York University, in New York, NY.
* Northwestern University School of Law, Northwestern University, in Chicago, IL.
* Stanford Law School, Stanford University, in Stanford, CA.
* University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, University of California, Berkeley, in Berkeley, CA.
* University of Chicago Law School, University of Chicago, in Chicago, IL.
* University of Michigan Law School, University of Michigan, in Ann Arbor, MI.
* University of Pennsylvania Law School, University of Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia, PA.
* University of Virginia School of Law, University of Virginia, in Charlottesville, VA.
* Yale Law School, Yale University, in New Haven, CT.

i would say prepare to make your jump soon. when things start to turn around, you'll be in a better position for promotion than others that have a 6-12 month employment gap. work on getting some certifications or CPEs, get your resume together & hopefully you (& i) can ride the next tide in to easy street.

At $8 an hour, I assume that "professional appearance" means "wear big boy pants, a shirt with some sort of collar, and actual shoes."

Depending on the field, you can actually get paid to go to grad school (assuming a research degree, not a coursework only one). It's pretty much a given in the natural sciences and engineering.

That $200k+ is as a contractor, not a soldier.

I still think I made the right decision as it was what I planned to do fore a few years now. I'm moderately worried about finding a job.

In the long run I think it will help, as a 4-year degree seems to be standard these days.

I hope.

My great-uncle smoked like a chimney his whole life and lived to be 92, therefore all studies showing smoking is bad for you are BS!

I don't know why they went to law school initially but I know these two people and I doubt that financial incentive was the primary reason.

Just look.

Unless you've got teh gay, because when it comes to translating languages in the fight to keep safe from evil doers, the first thing to comes to my mind is, "How does this person feels about penises?"

/Straight but not narrow.

@nybiker: Perl? Thats a bit old school, its all about java and c/c++ these days. Learn those, read up on your assembly(which is a bitch) and re-read you proofs book. Proofs are stupid but hey it'll help you get that development job.

I can see that especially if you want a career and not a job.

I've resigned from companies that supposedly were 'career' oriented or in a career oriented field and made 2 mistakes.

The first mistake was resigning from the job with no immediate job to go to. I went to school but potential employers didn't like that I resigned from that job. And by the way that company and job has been downsized manytimes since I left. That's why I left. It was becoming a dead end job.

The second mistake was even after some schooling was not having continuously year after year updating or learning new skills. Potential employers in ' career ' fields want to see you are really into it to the point of constantly taking courses,getting certifications,degrees,seminars etc.

Point being at least try to get some part time work in choosen career field and take courses & training even if non credit twards a degree. And need a dare say a voluntary internship even if for a month or so.

If you want a career and not a job you have to keep your hands in it at all times.

The reaction I got from many potential employers was where the heck were you meaning these schools and training are it ? I was always led to believe unless you are taking a course for college credit it is a waste. WRONG-even many an adult continuing education course can help. Or volunteer work.

And if you still want to stay in the game so to speak at least keep up on the industry or field on your own by reading related magazines,journals,articles etc. You will at least come off as being well read along with trying to keep up.

One last thing. Never ever let a boss talk you out of schooling or try to convince you ' this ' job will last for ever . Most bosses and fellow employees are smart enough to realize that they can be replaced and fear a more educated and more experienced person so they will hinder you advancement for their own agenda and NOT because it messes up the schedule .

The best jobs and salaries are found via networking. That will beat any recession.

Leave the McJobs off and put down something else like contract work (like self-employed consulting) or volunteer/internship or herbal distribution entrepreneur/dispatcher (sounds better than "weed dealer").

Best of luck.

@pecan 3.14159265: Thank you!!! Yeah, I too was laid off in Jan and people tell me I should go to school (not grad school, though) to learn a new computer skill (it seems my OpenVMS system admin skills are not in demand as much these days). And my answer is with what money? The money I saved for a rainy day? Well, that money is paying my mortgage, oil, water, electric, & food bills. And besides, just because I learn a new skill, most if not all job specs nowadays want 1 or 2 years of my new computer skill (whatever it might have been). So, while learning Perl might be good, I do not know if would have been the thing to do.

Any thoughts on the subject? Thx.

First of all, you can't logically have two minimum anythings. Secondly, I'm not sure it would be legal to have two minimum wages. And thirdly, you want to go LOWER than $7.25/hour? I made more than that at 16 working in a restaurant 21 YEARS AGO!

Recently, I've read want ads in Texas:

"Wanted: Office Manager. Must have professional appearance, be smart, reliable, etc. etc. $8 an hour."

What kind of "professional appearance" is expected for $8 an hour? Does anybody know? I'm really fucking curious. Maintain a professional appearance and add in transportation costs and you're working for free, chump!

"Wanted: Electrician. Must be experienced and have own truck and tools. $8.50/hour."

Yessir: you provide the experience, the journeyman's license, your own truck, your own tools, and then work at a dirty, dangerous job for 10+ hours a day for the princely sum of $8.50 an hour.

I wonder what kind of benefits package they offer?

@Eldritch: Indeed. It gets under my skin when people criticize majors like English. *shakes head*

Of course you have to go to Afghanistan but for the money I'd do it! I'm also going on 6 months of unemployment to...

I was just thinking the same thing. Time to seriously think about that business idea that's been rattling around in my head for a few years now and hasn't gone away.

Right. So?

This is not surprising: people with uninterrupted careers have more earnings and better status than others. Is comparing yourself to other people supposed to be important? It's not the route to happiness, kids.

When today's unemployed finally do get jobs in the recovery, many may be dissatisfied to be slotted below people who worked all along

Dissatisfied? Are unproven new hires entitled to move into an advanced level in their pay grade ahead of workers with a known performance record? Answer: No.

I look forward to the article: "Strong sense of entitlement correlates with job dissatisfaction".

The real solution is going to be peer to peer job creation. People agreeing to hire someone local or use someone local for a needed ongoing service or to have a product supplied. Then that person spends his wages doing the same. Some sort of more micro economy is probably the only way around the mired mess we are stuck in.

I don't have a college degree (although people always assume I do). Before I dropped out to be a housewife, I had a pretty decent job at an international investment bank pushing paper. My manager asked if I'd be interested in a job as an analyst, but I knew I was pregnant and wouldn't be willing to spend the time to do it.

Obviously, I could have gotten MUCH further if I'd had a college degree. Many places won't look at you unless you have one, regardless of work experience and I must have missed many opportunities. But then again, when I dropped out, I was making 20 grand more than my Georgetown-grad SIL does today.

It makes me glad to have started out when I did (as a receptionist) when you could actually work your way up the ladder. Does that still happen anymore?

It's rough for a lot of people, even grad school students. The thing you have going for you is that you're already in grad school so when you get out, the people who lost their jobs and went to grad school will still be in school, and you won't be competing with them for work.

Now graduate school is the trendy thing to do...

It's once they're out of college that it affects them more because they're thinking about long-term careers.

English majors: We're not ALL useless

Step 2. Get a degree worth something.

What kind of job is he looking for? unless its being a teacher, what good is an english degree?

@QADude:
And I call you a stupid youngn', but only time will tell!

@QADude: Well there you have it. One example disproves the survey.

If I leave out work history which points to that education (student jobs, internships, work in the field) I have an almost empty work-history, and no way to answer the inevitable question of what you were doing during those years of unemployment. At 26, that's devastating to a job hunt, even for jobs which don't require a college education. The gaps that already exist are already causing problems, adding to that can only make things worse.

How to remedy that?

That advice is offered often, and I don't doubt it has some merit. But it is never given with a follow-up about what to do with the destruction of work history the method causes.

This is a BusinessWeek article after all. I don't know if I'm remembering correctly, but I seem to remember reading an article from there suggesting that the minimum wage needed to be lowered or eliminated. [Citation Needed]

Step 1: Move out of New York

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT.

GOD DAMMIT.

AHHHHHH I WILL NEVER GET OUT OF RETAIL NOW SOMEONE JUST KILL ME AND TAKE ME OUT OF MY MISERY.

My first job was in the middle of the 90's recession, when California was still recovering. I managed just fine.

I do have a job but I'd say I'm underemployed at the moment.

This sounds kind of like common sense though. Start your career later and it will take you longer to move up.

these statistics are irrelevant because they don't look at the job market after a recession. The people in the entry-level jobs when they return will be better qualified and will accelerate faster than the people studied in the statistics mentioned.

Retention bonuses? How's that work again?

Except around here for small things, where the cost of living is too high for many service industry folks to survive, given the decrease in total job hours. So they move or stay away. Which screws with supply & demand. Which means many jobs are done by overqualified workers and cost too much or they remain unfinished jobs. Bah.