var json_comments = new Array("
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sassbrown74
September 2, 2009 7:57 PM
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Sounds like there is probably more to this story. She sounds all around annoying. That's probably the real reason.

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4 replies
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Keavy_Rain
September 3, 2009 2:09 AM
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@drgmobile: My apartment complex had an office manager who would send out an all-caps full-page letter full of spelling and grammar errors whenever someone offended her. She'd never \"name names\" but we pretty much knew who had offended her by the language she used.

One time I \"offended\" her by sitting in my car, in front of my apartment, in the fire lane, because my girlfriend forgot her cell phone. Next day, all-caps letter on the door about people parking in fire lanes and how she won't cry when our worthless crap goes up in flames because some inconsiderate jerk parked in the fire lane.

Nevermind the fact that I was behind the wheel, the car was running, and it took less than a minute for my girlfriend to leave the car, unlock the door, go in the apartment, get her cellphone, lock up, and return to the car. Unless I suffered a heart attack, was killed by an assassin, or the entire complex burst into flames in that one minute I fail to see how that would have been an issue worthy of a full-page all-caps letter.

Plus, I think the fire department has hoses long enough to reach around a Hyundai. At least, I hope they do...

She eventually moved on and the only correspondence we receive from the office manager now involves the monthly newsletter and yearly lease renewals, both of which are typed with proper casing and feature few errors in spelling and grammar.

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y2julio
September 3, 2009 5:52 AM
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@Keavy_Rain: Nope, they would just smash your windows and run the hose through the car :p

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Trai_Dep
September 3, 2009 6:12 AM
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@y2julio: But, as a delightful bonus, you'd be on the first-name basis with a truckload of handsome fireman.
Lords, giveth, lords taketh...

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coan_net
September 2, 2009 8:44 PM
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@drgmobile: I agree. I don't think someone would get fired for just that, and she must have rubbed the wrong people the wrong way - and the e-mail was just the excuse they were looking for.

I can see being written up for doing that - and possible fired if you continued to do that many times after being warned... but there must have been another reason.

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Shadowman615
September 2, 2009 8:41 PM
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@drgmobile: Yeah, I think they probably had another reason for firing her. Although when a company gives an obviously contrived reason for firing someone it kind of raises some suspicions as to whether the firing was legit.

I really have no idea what New Zealand's standards are for wrongful terminations also.

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pecan 3.14159265
September 2, 2009 7:57 PM
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It's not ageist. Writing an email in all caps is ridiculously terrible, just like writing an email in chat speak or text speak. If you assume that older people are the only ones who would write in all caps, you're assuming that only teenagers write in text speak.


I guess those of us in between are left to handle the emailing with proper sentences and grammar!


But kudos to the Anchorman reference!

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7 replies
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coren
September 2, 2009 10:21 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: My mom uses netspeak in text messages instead of all caps. Young at heart?

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subtlefrog
September 3, 2009 2:51 AM
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@coren: We used to have someone in our lab who would only write emails in text speak. I'm talking professional emails, any kind of emails. Her professor forbade her from doing so, repeatedly, and she persisted. People in the lab spoke english as a second language. She apparently did not care. I could never understand 1. her emails and 2. the mindset where you'd actually do this.

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coren
September 3, 2009 3:00 AM
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@subtlefrog: I've taught before, and that's infuriating - not just the text speak, which I can moderately understand, but the disregard for others, not to mention what her professor is telling her is expected of her. I'd have docked her grade to get the point across, but I'm usually willing to do something \"to make a point\" or \"for the principle\" and I usually get bitten in the ass for it

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subtlefrog
September 3, 2009 3:06 AM
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@coren: Ready for this - she was a grad student - well past the age this should even be an issue. I used to think my head was going to explode anytime I had to read something from her. Which was sad, since she's an awesome person.

It also meant it was an adviser/student relationship and no grade to dock. If it were me - I don't think I'd have given up on the argument quite so easily though.

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Cyberxion101
September 2, 2009 11:25 PM
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@Cat_In_A_Hat: We do data entry in all caps at work, and sometimes when I write an e-mail I forget to turn it off. Luckily I tend to notice when the first letter shows up lower-case, and on the off chance that I don't, Outlook auto-corrects it for me anyway.

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shepd
September 2, 2009 9:52 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265:

Yup, I do believe nobody who is of the age to have owned a typewriter that did NOT include lower case is now either dead, or is much older than the retirement age.

The only excuse I see for people who learned on typewriters is using all caps for titles or emphasis. Although, those that _really_ typed a lot would know to switch the wheel for an italics one for that, or use overstrike.

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YouDidWhatNow?
September 2, 2009 8:42 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265:


Agreed. I know far too many people between high school and middle age that can't seem to grasp the function of the \"caps lock\" button.

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Cat_In_A_Hat
September 2, 2009 10:08 PM
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@YouDidWhatNow?: I once has a co-worker who used all caps when typing and entering in information for our customer database. Luckily our system would let you know who entered the account information in by their login infomation. Even after being warned, he still did not quite understand the need to type in standard type. Having to be one of the employees to go back and correct each account (luckily our systems admin gave us a keystroke shortcut) I am extremely annoyed with people who only type in caps or who use unreadable fonts. Colors are sometimes necessary although they give me a headache, but all caps is just plain aggravating.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
September 3, 2009 3:48 AM
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@Cat_In_A_Hat: when i was trained for my current job, three years ago, we were trained to use regular formatting for everything except the database and it was insisted upon that we use all caps there. fortunately for the rest of us they started hiring in communications majors who absolutely refused to go along with that plan [i tried, i kept getting in trouble] and finally it was figured out that there was no reason at all that all caps were being used, just that a previous trainer had preferred it.
so now there are older notes that give me a headache if i have to go that far back [especially because punctuation was also lax] and notes from the last couple of years are in real sentences and easy to read.

and yes, i know i don't use capital letters for everything outside of work. i have small hands and i type all day long so by the time i leave work i am too lazy to reach for the shift key. but hey, it's not shouting!

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krista
September 3, 2009 4:49 AM
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@catastrophegirl: I would much prefer anyone to use all lower case instead of all caps any day of the week!

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Trai_Dep
September 3, 2009 6:22 AM
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@krista: There's a sciencey reason for this: lower case has ascending and descending strokes, which provide greater contrast, which our brains can process more easily. All UPPER, no such luck.
So if anyone gives you guff about not using mixed case, tell them Science compels them to cut you slack.
@catastrophegirl: Yet another reason why Liberal Arts majors, if left to their own devices, would quickly made the entire world a better one.

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Shadowman615
September 2, 2009 8:37 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Yeah, ageist would be a strange assessment of that policy. Would somebody over a certain age really not be able to comprehend a directive not to send all-caps emails?

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pb5000
September 2, 2009 7:58 PM
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I have a woman in my office who prints out every single email she gets, that way she can reference them while she two finger types her reply. It's humorous in a sad clown kind of way.

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9 replies
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YouDidWhatNow?
September 2, 2009 8:44 PM
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@pb5000:


...two very successful sales reps at a software company I worked at couldn't operate email, and made a secretary print everything out for them.


Please note the irony, in case you missed it, in that these guys were *successful* sales reps for a *software company* - and they couldn't figure out how to use Outlook.

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morganlh85
September 2, 2009 8:44 PM
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@pb5000: A friend worked on a group class project with a lady who worked IN AN OFFICE USING COMPUTERS...they were told to double-space their essay, so the lady goes through and hits \"enter\" at the end of every line of a 6 page paper.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
September 2, 2009 8:37 PM
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@pb5000: My dad used have his secretary print out his e-mails, write his replies longhand on a legal pad, and give it to his secretary to type them in and e-mail back.

Now he has more than one crackberry and a speedy little four-finger typing mode on a real keyboard. I'm so proud of my little techno-crack-head dad!

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zandar
September 2, 2009 9:26 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!):

If he wrote like this, I would feel sorry if he abandoned pen and ink for a blackberry.

signed, Flourish Curlicue

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Julius Seizure
September 2, 2009 8:53 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): Tell us, when you visit with him do you talk to his face or with the top of his head.

I once attended a meeting with 3 technical architects - who brought their laptops/crackberries. After about 5 minutes I told them I was sick of talking to three bald-spots and if they didn't put their toys away and make eye contact with me like a human, they could figure out how to give the bad news to the business on their own.

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pb5000
September 2, 2009 8:40 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): My old office had a guy who did that too! This is the same guy that had a laptop and was having a hard time with the trackpad, so they gave him a mouse while he was out and he came back asking what it was and how to use it. I wish I were making it up.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
September 2, 2009 9:28 PM
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@pb5000: Well, admittedly, it is hard to use a mouse that's plugged into an Etch-a-Sketch.

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fashionista
September 2, 2009 8:14 PM
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@pb5000: It's amazing how many persons under 50 years old are technology illiterate. I work with mostly PhDs (I'll leave a forwarding address for sympathy cards later), and one here is either 50 or 51 and is literally afraid of her laptop. While she doesn't print out every email, she does place all incoming emails in the deleted folder (assuming that it's junk mail - even though we have a junk mail filter) and then complains that she can't find a certain email that should've been sent recently. I've tried to help so many times that I've now given up.

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bonzombiekitty
September 3, 2009 11:52 AM
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@fashionista: I work with a bunch of engineers of various types. We're all a bunch of computer people. You'd be surprised at how many of them two finger type very slowly (my boss included, and he's really good with computers). It drives me nuts when I'm helping a coworker, and telling them what to type in and they're taking forever. I eventually want to turn into Nick Burns and just yell \"MOVE!\" and do it for them.

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 8:45 PM
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@fashionista: I have to deal with people like this all the time. I had to walk a lady over the phone through copying files from a folder on one computer to the same folder on another computer. What would take any of us one sentence to explain took 15 minutes of hand-holding here. I firmly believe that you should have to take a computer literacy test before you're allowed to own a computer. When I expressed this opinion at work, a coworker said, \"Well, do you know how an automatic transmission works?\" To which I replied, \"No, but I at least know how to use one. And I had to take a driving test before I was allowed to drive a car.\"

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Rectilinear Propagation
September 3, 2009 2:37 PM
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What would take any of us one sentence to explain

@diasdiem: Well that's part of the problem for people who are completely unfamiliar and uncomfortable with computers: they're usually only getting one sentence explanations. So they always have to ask for help again.

And I had to take a driving test before I was allowed to drive a car.

But you were still able to practice driving with a learners permit before getting the real license to drive on your own. You probably also had someone who knew how to drive telling you what to do while you were learning.

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BytheSea
September 2, 2009 9:44 PM
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@diasdiem: It took my mother four years to remember how to copy/paste pictures from one folder to another, without deleting or making doubles of anything. She still doesn't really understand that her computer is made up of files and folders and the pictures are files that can be moved into different folders. She thinks it's all some amorphous disorganized system tht goes away when she closes the windows.

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webweazel
September 3, 2009 4:33 AM
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@BytheSea: I had to explain to my mother, over the PHONE, what a FILE was. Then I had to go into filename extensions and folders. It took me three days to decribe how to save a file to a folder, again over the phone. I think I aged a few years in that one week, just from frustration.

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BytheSea
September 3, 2009 4:29 PM
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@weazel662: My dad's still as bad as that. He worked on cars and can still repair anything physical that breaks. But he has no grasp of nonphysical things like data or applications. He still doesn't understand the difference between signing into his Windows logon and signing into Yahoo. He thinks it's the same thing.

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formergr
September 3, 2009 3:00 PM
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@weazel662: I will forever regret making Hotmail my father's homepage when setting him up with a computer and email. I did it for simplicity's sake, so that he could do email right away, and we'd learn the rest of the Internet later.

To this day, he thinks that all of the internet originates at Hotmail, and that he has to go their first before doing anything else. He even thinks Hotmail is where his local computer files live. Sigh.

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diasdiem
September 3, 2009 4:47 AM
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@weazel662: My mom's not as bad as all that. I actually was able to explain hexadecimal to her. Although at one point I did say, \"Honestly, Mom, I do this all day for a living, I really don't need this shit right now.\" :-)

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GearheadGeek
September 2, 2009 8:56 PM
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@diasdiem: I've been asked the \"do you know how an automatic transmission works\" question, when ranting about someone not having the first idea how to use something common. (I think it was a thermostat, but it may have been something else, I'm a cranky bastard about many things.) I think I got about 20 seconds into an explanation of the generic concept of a torque-converter automatic transmission before they stopped me and gave up. :)

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MinorAnnoyance
September 2, 2009 9:37 PM
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@GearheadGeek: +1 I've done that on several occasions. It's fun to watch their faces. :D

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Trai_Dep
September 2, 2009 7:59 PM
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ALL CAPS: dead!
Next on the list: Emoticons! :D

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7 replies
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YouDidWhatNow?
September 3, 2009 12:09 AM
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@Trai_Dep:


Emoticons are fine. What really irritates me is the disemvoweling. May as well staple a \"retard\" sign to your forehead.

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 9:06 PM
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@Smashville_makes his own comments at home: There just seemed to be more public animus towards Comic Sans. I thought of that one too. Some day, they shall all be cast into the pit, with the embedded MIDIs, marquee and blink tags, and animated .gifs! Especially the rotating 3D animated gifs!

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Smashville
September 2, 2009 9:38 PM
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@diasdiem: We could all compile these into one and call it \"MySpace\".

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Amish Undercover
September 2, 2009 8:43 PM
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@diasdiem: Can Comic Sans go first? There is never a (good) reason to use that font. Or 97% of the other fonts available.

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subtlefrog
September 3, 2009 2:44 AM
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@statgrad: Completely agreed. Limit me to about 3-4 fonts, and, oh, quit fucking with the font while I type (forgetting that I've switched back to good old Times instead of that stupid Calibri the new Word defaults to so I have to change it every 10 min.). Yeeesssss.

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 8:36 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: Don't buy any green bananas, cutesy-joke-chain-letter-everyone-but-my-mom-has-seen-a-hundred-times-and-no-longer-finds-funny!

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 8:37 PM
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@diasdiem: ...mom-has-seen-and-no-longer-finds-funny!!!

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 8:37 PM
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@diasdiem: Further illustrating why you should always have \"preview comment\" checked.

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Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather
September 2, 2009 7:59 PM
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Before this goes downhill rapidly, can we please refrain from the cool \"ALL CAPS, MOCKING THE STORY COMMENTS\"? It really gets obnoxious after a while and it's not funny.

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13 replies
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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*
September 3, 2009 4:11 AM
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@itiswhatitis: come on consumeristas, i expect better of you... nobody screamed CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL

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squinko
September 3, 2009 11:47 AM
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@gStein: While I was GISing a good pic of that, I found this pic, which I infinitely better:

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johnarlington
September 2, 2009 8:52 PM
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@itiswhatitis: THE REALITY IS THAT THEY ARE JUST SYMBOLS USED TO REPRESENT SOUNDS OF SPEACH WHY SHOULD IT MATTER IF THEY ARE ALL CAPS or all lower case. it doesn't really matter. but them i'm also the person who is pissed off that cursive writing is still taught.

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BigPapaCherry
September 2, 2009 9:14 PM
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@johnarlington: I'm the person who is pissed that cursive writing is barely still taught. I use cursive every day and I think it's an important skill to have.. At least if we want people to have legible signatures.

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Powerlurker
September 3, 2009 4:09 AM
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@BigPapaCherry: Now with more Twitter!:

A signature doesn't need to be \"legible\" it just needs to be unique and quickly writable by yourself. That having been said, I've never written in cursive ever since they stopped forcing us to do so in school, probably because my family has had a computer since the mid-80s and I realized early on how obsolete the skill is when typing is faster, easier, and neater. Besides, the average number of times per week I need to handwrite something that will be read by a person other than myself is less than 1, and I can print faster and neater than I can write in cursive.

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mackjaz
September 3, 2009 12:20 AM
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@BigPapaCherry: Now with more Twitter!: It's interesting... my kids have barely used it in school (4th and 6th graders). They pretty much rush through the cursive and then onto computers.

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Smashville
September 2, 2009 9:40 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy_Has$240WorthOfPuddin': They taught it in my school over two years. One of them happened to be the year they changed the uppercase Q. Needless to say, I can't write a Q in cursive.

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Nicole
September 3, 2009 1:53 AM
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@Smashville_makes his own comments at home: They CHANGED the uppercase Q? Who is this mysterious they and who gave them the authority to change the alphabet on a whim?

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 9:46 PM
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@Smashville_makes his own comments at home: Yeah, I never use the \"big 2\" Q either. I like to use cursive if I'm not in a rush, but if I jot something down, my print is more legible.

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Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather
September 2, 2009 9:18 PM
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@BigPapaCherry: Now with more Twitter!: you still use cursive? I can write it but I prefer printing. I guess it's because I have beautiful handwriting so my print looks really fancy and pretty.

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AirIntake
September 2, 2009 9:02 PM
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@johnarlington: Without cursive how will you write your signature? With printing?

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 9:01 PM
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@johnarlington: All-caps is the typographical equivalent of someone standing too close and talking very loudly in your ear.

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squinko
September 2, 2009 8:27 PM
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@itiswhatitis: Can we all please not have any fun here? Seriously. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

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Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather
September 2, 2009 8:28 PM
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@diasdiem: its not the trolls that do it, its the starred veterans that sometimes take it too far with the joke. Sorry like I wrote to Accar I have a bad headache and painful cyst today so while I lay at home this is one the few things entertaining me. I love the comments section but sometimes it becomes unreadable with silliness. I was just hoping my plea would garner some compassion.

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TheWillow
September 2, 2009 9:46 PM
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@itiswhatitis: In the future, perhaps you should consider, much like in real life, when you request others you do not know refrain from a specific activity that is not particularly malicious, it is best to do so with a modicum of politeness and deference rather than scolding disdain.

That way, the chance people will listen to you rises to at *least* 5%.

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MostlyHarmless
September 2, 2009 8:40 PM
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@itiswhatitis: I know what you mean. But its one of those \"damned if you do, damned if you dont\" situations.

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acarr260
September 2, 2009 8:07 PM
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@itiswhatitis: Can we also please refrain from using tired and cliched lower/middle management sayings as logins?
No?

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admiral_stabbin
September 2, 2009 8:17 PM
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I hope they tried to educate her before the firing.@acarr260: I promise not to use any of my middle management sayings as my alias...ever. Instead, I will stick with my porn themed login. Much more classy.

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Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather
September 2, 2009 8:15 PM
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@acarr260: If I didn't have a splitting headache and a painful cyst I might actually have the patience for a jit bag like you today but I don't so please go away.

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MostlyHarmless
September 2, 2009 8:00 PM
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Dont tempt me with ironic options in polls!

In any case, I think if using e-mail is one of the job requirements, e-mail etiquette should be one too. Though the company should also give offenders some guidelines about how to e-behave. You would not put up with someone who shouted all the time when speaking, and though shouting in text is not nearly the same thing, it however is still very annoying. And if someone does not change despite being educated about it, they have more underlying problems.

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4 replies
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Kimaroo - 100% Pure Natural Kitteh
September 2, 2009 9:33 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: WHAT ABOUT THE GUY IN DILBERT'S OFFICE?! HE DOESN'T KNOW HE IS YELLING!

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Kimaroo - 100% Pure Natural Kitteh
September 2, 2009 9:48 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: He seems more affective in the animated cartoon. He is even LOUDER.

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pattiesmart
September 2, 2009 8:25 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: \"And if someone does not change despite being educated about it, they have more underlying problems.\"


Exactly. I have to e-mail many higher ups. If I was unprofessional or rude in an e-mail, I could get fired, and why shouldn't I? I can get fired for walking up to smoeone and \"YELLING AT THEM CONSTANTLY!\" it's the asme damn thing.

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ExtraCelestial
September 2, 2009 8:08 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: Consumerist is consistently guilty of this. I love it though!

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Ghede
September 2, 2009 8:01 PM
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An E-mail in all caps? It says there is one sentence written in all capital letters, bold, and in blue. And the times were in red. That is hardly shouting, that is making important details look important.

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4 replies
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mamalicious
September 3, 2009 6:55 AM
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@Ghede: The article says that her co-workers complained about her sending too many emails in all caps, so it sounds like it was an ongoing thing.

I think the email that you are referring to was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I still want to know about the nap time.

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henrygates
September 2, 2009 8:17 PM
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@Ghede: I know someone who does this and it is kind of annoying, and condescending.

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humphrmi
September 3, 2009 12:50 PM
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@henrygates: Yes, it's condescending because it tells the reader \"You're too stupid to figure out what's important here, so I'm going to shout them at you.\"

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melking
September 3, 2009 4:14 PM
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@Ghede:As a communicator, I think if your message is so poorly written that you must highlight and bold and make letters red and blink and be in all caps...well then maybe, just maybe, you should learn how to write a message clearly and concisely so people don't have to figure out what's important; it's clear what's important.

Of course, this comes from someone who re-reads and edits every email (and this comment) before sending. Email is not stream of consciousness, especially work email. That's what journals are for, which I also find myself editing until I make myself stop.

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ellastar
September 2, 2009 9:55 PM
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@henrygates: I once had a district administrator (district manager's secretary/assistant) who used to take her anger out in emails to the stores. Store not selling as much or selling enough product warranties? We were guaranteed an email chewing us out with varying font sizes. The larger and bolder the font, the angrier she was. She and the DM were big fans of using red in the emails, along with numerous spelling/grammar mistakes and...my favorite...\"4rth\".

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pecan 3.14159265
September 2, 2009 8:02 PM
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What, you guys don't get naptime? I work for the Bluth Company, and Buster Bluth is my boss. We have snack time at 4 pm.

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7 replies
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subtlefrog
September 3, 2009 2:46 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Grad student. Beer, naps, the occasional gin & tonic. All the snacks I can eat. Oh yeah.

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ShariC
September 3, 2009 12:44 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265: I used to work in a Japanese office and 4:00 pm was \"snack time\", and male Japanese coworkers used to nap at their desks. It sounds pretty weird to Americans (I'm American, so I know), but some cultures do these things. Of course, only the Japanese men (not the foreigners or female Japanese employees) were allowed to sleep on the job.

Of course, they didn't call it \"snack time\", they called it taking \"afternoon tea\". Thank you, England.

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calquist
September 2, 2009 10:01 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: My company used to have Cookie O'Clock. No joke. It was at 2pm on Tuesday and Thursdays. Unfortunately, it was cut due to budget cuts. I guess I would rather have my job than toasty, warm cookies twice a week. Maybe.

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Trai_Dep
September 3, 2009 6:26 AM
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@calquist: Let me get this straight.
Your company declared war on warm cookies?
What's next, invading rainbows? Shooting butterflies?

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G.O.B.: Come on!
September 2, 2009 8:07 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: That's weird because I don't recognize you from around the office. Then again, I don't acknowledge anyone who isn't wearing at least a $6,000 suit.

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Synaptic Reload
September 2, 2009 8:03 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: I don't get naps, but I do get 15-30 minute porcelain cruises

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Synaptic Reload
September 2, 2009 8:02 PM
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Different country, different practices.

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2 replies
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Burning pakalolo not even noticing the weather
September 2, 2009 8:32 PM
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@Synaptic Reload: do you mean in email etiquette or the reasons they can terminate her? Email etiquette is pretty universal since we no longer operate within our own respective countries. I need to be as professional when dealing with colleagues in London and Japan as I am with my DC and NY counterparts.

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zombies.like.lattés.too
September 2, 2009 8:04 PM
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We instituted a corporate e-mail policy when our company got e-mail for our management staff. Not writing in all caps is one of the points outlined in the document. I'm not sure it'd be a fireable offense for our company, but we do have signatures on file for all of our managers who signed the document that included the no \"ALL CAPS\" rule, so technically we probably could fire them for knowingly violating company policy.

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Yoko Broke Up The Beatles
September 2, 2009 8:04 PM
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I know how to write comments in italics and boldface, but can I write comments in red or blue on The Consumerist?


I don't think so, because I haven't seen anyone else do it. But, I just don't know!

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6 replies
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HogwartsAlum
September 2, 2009 9:51 PM
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@Yoko Broke Up The Beatles: I wish I knew how to do the italics and bold....all I can do is CAPS. I looked in Help but couldn't find anything.

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StevePJobs
September 2, 2009 10:17 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: Since these comments aren't Markdown-equipped, it's just a matter of some basic HTML. Go to the library and get a good book on it. :)

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Michael Belisle
September 2, 2009 8:25 PM
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@Yoko Broke Up The Beatles: No, you can't. It's impossible.

And I would never, ever lie to you. Pinky swear.

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Jeff_McAwes0me
September 2, 2009 9:56 PM
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@Michael Belisle: Please refrain from using too much HTML.

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humphrmi
September 3, 2009 5:13 PM
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@Jeff_McAwes0me: Drat, the MARQUEE tag doesn't work here.

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MostlyHarmless
September 2, 2009 8:42 PM
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@Michael Belisle: KRYPTONITE! That is what you just made available. Kryptonite. I'm suing you if theres an explosion of rainbow comments.

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katstermonster
September 3, 2009 12:54 AM
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@MostlyHarmless: Waaaait a minute...maybe my browser is just being stupid. Pecan Pi doesn't have one either. Or...anyone else.

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MostlyHarmless
September 3, 2009 1:02 AM
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@katstermonster: Yeah, its just your browser. Though sometimes, for me the stars do not load either.

Also, fun fact: Your profile pic is different here than it is on your profile page. Though i guess you have already noticed that.

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katstermonster
September 3, 2009 12:53 AM
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@MostlyHarmless: Maybe I'm late on this, but am I missing something??? Where is your star???

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Michael Belisle
September 2, 2009 10:01 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: In order for there to be an explosion of rainbow comments, someone has to figure out how it's done. The secret behind the magic is not trivial. And like with all magic tricks, I'm sworn to secrecy.

I assume that anyone who's smart enough to figure out how it's done understands that with great power comes great responsibility.

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Trai_Dep
September 3, 2009 6:36 AM
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@Michael Belisle: I once had to g̶r̶o̶v̶e̶l̶ a̶n̶d̶ b̶e̶g̶ ask a kind, wise gentleman* very nicely to show me how to add strike-thrus. He eventually took enough pity to show me how.
I've since been q̶u̶i̶t̶e̶ somewhat restrained in its use.

* *cough* Michael Belisle *cough*

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friendlynerd
September 2, 2009 8:04 PM
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Whether you agree or disagree with the outcome, how is anything about this case \"ageist?\"

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mackjaz
September 3, 2009 12:24 AM
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@friendlynerd: I think ageism isn't really applicable here, but I have noticed that there is a direct correlation between someone's age and their propensity to print out everything they can. Then they gotta file it, etc...

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 8:41 PM
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@friendlynerd: Seriously. All caps has nothing to do with age, it's all about being cluelessly obnoxious.

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thehouserules
September 2, 2009 8:08 PM
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Firing seems a little harsh for what is essentially a grammar violation. If she had been warned about that type of communication before, that would be one thing, but the story makes it sound like it was just out of the blue.

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G.O.B.: Come on!
September 2, 2009 8:09 PM
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LOUD NOISES.

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meltingcube
September 2, 2009 8:10 PM
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My job all day is helping out customers via email with their issues. The way you say something, capitalized or not, sets the tone of the email. Whenever someone writes a letter or sentance in all caps, they are basically 'yelling' electronically.

Personal email is one thing, however when your writing emails for your professional career you need to watch the way you word your emails.

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tbax929
September 2, 2009 8:14 PM
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I have an underwriter who does this. It's so annoying. He acknowledges that people have complained to him about it, but he refuses to stop doing it.


I can see if you don't know any better, but why would you continue to do it after receiving complaints?

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floraposte
September 2, 2009 8:48 PM
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@tbax929: Two answers: 1) because you're so freaking self-involved you think it's not your problem or 2) because we're increasingly moving toward a standard of communication where the burden is on the reader, not the writer, to make the message clear and acceptable.

I do not think these things are mutually exclusive.

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Snaptastic
September 2, 2009 11:16 PM
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@floraposte: Reason 3: He is a stubborn jerk.

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squinko
September 2, 2009 8:17 PM
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I don't think we can accurately judge what's going on until we find out for sure if naptime was involved or not. I mean, how jarring would it be to get out of your footie jamies and go back to work and then have wild blue and red letters flashing all over the screen at you? Horrendous. Maybe those employees should've filed emotional distress suits.

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HiPwr
September 2, 2009 8:20 PM
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If she were fired on the first offense, I say unfair. Or maybe even the second. But, if she was repeatedly advised that this was not acceptable, I think it was justified because she was either trying to annoy, or just not able to take instruction.

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mmmsoap
September 3, 2009 1:42 AM
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@HiPwr:

But, if she was repeatedly advised that this was not acceptable, I think it was justified because she was either trying to annoy, or just not able to take instruction.

I agree. It has little to do with the actual fireable offense, and everything to do with not following your supervisor's directions. While I may think it's stupid, if my boss insisted that all memos are to be printed on pink paper, that would be something I would do. And if I didn't there would be a process: reminders in supervision, note in personnel file if it still didn't happen, mentioning it on my annual review, etc. I'm assuming that she only won her wrongful termination suit because the supervisor did not dot all the i's when dealing with it.

Most people I know have the delightful line tacked on to their job description: \"and other tasks assigned by supervisor,' which basically means \"do as your told, or else.\"

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tbax929
September 2, 2009 8:29 PM
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@HiPwr:
Agreed. If you didn't know any better, you certainly did by the time you'd been warned about it.

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pattiesmart
September 2, 2009 8:24 PM
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Writing in all caps is unprofessional. I could see someone getting fired for being unprofessional if they didn't learn the first time they were told \"cut it out!\" So I don't see how she won.

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mmmsoap
September 3, 2009 1:47 AM
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@pattiesmart:

So I don't see how she won.
Most likely she won because her supervisor didn't follow protocol in documenting her offenses. In my company, you get verbal warnings, then written, a mention in the annual review (if it's appropriate, timing-wise), then the old heave-ho....

I work in a school, and a teacher got fired for taking his pants off in class, and he won a wrongful termination suit because my stupid stupid principal (who, thankfully, has also since been fired) allowed him to work with the kids for an additional 2 weeks before canning him. He (the teacher) won his suit because he was \"not a safety risk\", since he had been allowed with the kids for 2 week because the principal did not document the incident in a timely manner.

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tbax929
September 3, 2009 2:19 AM
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@mmmsoap:

Why in the world would they allow him to work for two weeks following such a grievous offense?

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tbax929
September 2, 2009 8:30 PM
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@pattiesmart:
Your post made me actually RTFA. I don't know how I missed that part about the lawsuit before! I guess I was so elated that someone finally got canned for that.

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pattiesmart
September 2, 2009 8:34 PM
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@tbax929: It's in another country, actually, so their rules may be different, but unprofessional e-mails are still unprofessional.

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tbax929
September 2, 2009 8:44 PM
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@pattiesmart:
Agreed. If my company would allow me to do so, I'd totally fire someone for sending all-cap e-mails. So, so annoying and unprofessional.

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Smashville
September 2, 2009 8:34 PM
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@itiswhatitis: *|SMARTASS_REMARK|*

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sprocket79
September 2, 2009 8:35 PM
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Ugh. I have a former supervisor who did the all caps thing, often combined with the red, bold font. She used it most often when informing the group about new rules - except she used a threatening tone. Combine that with the red bold caps, it just sounded so harsh. It's like she was yelling at us for not following the new rules, when this was our first glimpse into them. It was as if we were to just magically know the rules before she told us and she was e-scolding us for not knowing better. I really wish this were a fireable offense, except her manager was even more computer illiterate and didn't know any better.

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2 replies
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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*
September 3, 2009 4:07 AM
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@sprocket79: to me, caps is inappropriate for emphasis. that's what bold and italics are for.
bold red, or red caps, comes off as threatening.

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bonzombiekitty
September 3, 2009 11:59 AM
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@gStein: I'll use caps for emphasis if being used sparingly. Mostly because it's easier to hit the caps lock than to do control+i. I also often write directions on how to use the software I wrote for coworkers. They'll often ignore a very important step in the process if I don't write it in ALL CAPS BOLD AND ITALIC WITH A \"VERY IMPORTANT\" BEFORE IT

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Digitizer
September 2, 2009 8:37 PM
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I wonder what the equivalence of Caps Lock typing is to a person born deaf?

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3 replies
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G.O.B.: Come on!
September 2, 2009 10:08 PM
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@Digitizer: To yell at a deaf person, you sign with your entire body a la \"Y-M-C-A!\"

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tbax929
September 2, 2009 8:45 PM
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@Digitizer:
I think a deaf person would still understand the concept of shouting and why it's inappropriate.

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MostlyHarmless
September 2, 2009 8:44 PM
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@Digitizer: hand signals ... with bright red and blue gloves.

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 8:40 PM
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I dunno, one line of an email, done for emphasis, doesn't seem like grounds for firing, especially if it was the first time. Sounds like the company may have been looking for an excuse to cut personnel.

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casey451
September 2, 2009 8:47 PM
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This is stupid.

it's as though the people who populate this site know only one rule of etiquette. NO ALL-CAPS! As a graphic designer, I'm familiar with the received wisdom of that job about caps and lower case. All caps are appropriate for headlines, lower case is easier to read. NOTHING about ALL CAPS IS SHOUTING! This is invented by some anal twit out there with nothing better to do but boss people around and show off his/her deep interconnectedness with the internetiverse. And now it's come to THIS - a poor employee who understands that this obsession is complete nonsense and a way for others to exercise dominance over her is FIRED! JESUS CHRIST!

I love to blow off steam on the New York Times blogs, even though it does about as much good there as it does here. (I can dream, can't I?) Sometimes I don't get published which I understand when I tear a new one for M. Dowd. Other times it is a mystery, until I heard back from the Public Editor's assistant who explained why one of my perfectly civilized comments was not published. ONE WORD of a four-paragraph post was in all caps, as in \"I wouldn't want even to know anybody who could THINK the thoughts expressed by this nitwit.\" (It was about that reporter who snarked the poop out of people who shop at Penneys.) Here's what the assistant said:
___________________________________

\"I have no doubt that this will cause your eyes to roll, but it was rejected because it violates Times guidelines with the use of the all caps \"Think.\"

The Times does not allow all caps because it is seen as shouting. However, it is clear you did not mean to shout 'think' but to emphasize it. Usually in cases like yours I write the reader and let him or her know that if he or she lowercases the word I would approve the message.

I failed to do so in your case and I apologize for that and for the delay.

If you resubmit your comment, with either a lower-case or italicized \"think\" I will post it right away.

I know this seems silly, but we have to be strict in order to be consistent.\"
____________________________________

Ridiculous.

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coren
September 2, 2009 10:39 PM
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@casey451: For emphasis, I too use all caps for a word or maybe two. I agree with you that the NYT was ridiculous in that moderation, and that all caps feel appropriate for emphasis - but think about it. When you're emphasizing text, you're saying it's more important, and calling attention to it. When an entire email is that, or so much as to make no difference, that's a different scenario. What are you calling attention to? The entire email? If the entire email is important or requires emphasis, flag it important, put Urgent in the title, etc. Constant use of all caps only serves to desensitize the reader, and in fact has the opposite effect of that which the writer intends.

And if the writer doesn't intend to emphasize the entire email, what would the point of not using lower case letters be? Especially if requested to. I mean, if I don't have a specific reason for doing something a certain way, and my boss tells me to do it another, repeatedly, I'm gonna go ahead and listen.

Oh, and whether or not it's the equivalent of shouting certainly came about before the internet - we just adopted it from other correspondence and writings - novels and letters aren't written in all caps unless there's not an option or there's a specific cause for it. To argue that the law is man made is a fine argument, but is it any more valid than if applied to proper comma/punctuation use (which I'm sure I've violated at some point here) or capitalizing a sentence/proper noun? Both of those are also man made constructs, along with non-phonetic spelling, but they're also the accepted standard.

*shrug*

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casey451
September 2, 2009 11:07 PM
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@coren: The people I know who use mostly caps are non-typists who can barely get one line out without having a heart attack. I expect that is the most common reason for this behavior. WHY SHOULD I THINK LESS OF THEM FOR USING ALL CAPS? They've served to alert me to the absurdity of this LAW powered by the \"accepted standard\" control freaks here and everywhere. It's one thing for me (and you) to know and understand practical reasons why all caps should not be used excessively. It's another to force our understanding on others when their doing so does not interfere with our personal health and well-being.

The shrug here is that apparently you and others here ALLOW this extremely minor foible to interfere with your well-being. I suggest you spend a month or so in Afghanistan to get your priorities straightened out. This is said with due respect and gratitude for your calm, well-argued post.

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floraposte
September 3, 2009 12:29 AM
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@casey451: There's nobody requiring you to think less of them if they type in all caps, say \"motherfucker,\" or type their message so it reads from right to left instead of left to right.

But if you're at a job that requires you to communicate according to the standards of the office, the office gets to set the standards. The standards that preclude the above aren't universal, but they are pretty common, so it's no particular surprise to be presented with such a standard and no onerous duty to be asked to adhere to it. Failure to adhere to the standard is going to annoy people who are trying to be productive.

It's simply not relevant that you think it shouldn't because you like a different standard--what's important is the fact that it does annoy people, and that if that's not enough reason for you to change your behavior at company request, then you've become a problem. It's up to the company to decide whether your other virtues outweigh this problem. In the case of the NZ accountant, her virtues didn't seem to outweigh her flaws.

This just sounds like the arguments about whether prospective employers should think less of people for being late, or dressing casually, or...whatever. The point isn't whether or not they should, the point is that they do, and it's common knowledge, and it's not an employer's job to adapt to your standard.

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casey451
September 3, 2009 1:13 AM
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@floraposte: \"The standards that preclude the above aren't universal, but they are pretty common\" You got a source on that with regard to no all caps? Please post it. Let's stick to oranges.

\"Failure to adhere to the standard is going to annoy people who are trying to be productive.\" Ruminating here... um, guess how they could become more productive. BY DOING THEIR JOBS AND LETTING THE ALL CAPPERS DO THEIRS! Is this really about annoyance? Wow. I didn't realize it was so miniscule.

People who don't adhere to a schedule on the job endanger the well-being of their co-workers. People who dress casually and don't wear girdles (kidding) don't endanger anybody, but can annoy the boss. They should work elsewhere. Okay, so that works for your side. I'm just happy I haven't been near a dress code in 30 years.

People who use all caps are guilty of absolutely nothing, and cannot be fired for it. Just try firing somebody for it in the US. Will we really be outshown in terms of personal liberties by tiny New Zealand?

She won. Get it?

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floraposte
September 3, 2009 2:03 AM
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@casey451: She won because they failed to source the majority of their claims and because they failed to warn her in advance, actually.

However, you seem to be misreading me. I think a firing over this and this alone is both unlikely and silly (there's a lot of paperwork in firing and job searches, after all). It's just that an individual's desire to subvert a common convention doesn't confer any obligation on the rest of the group to oblige the individual's desire. Especially if the boss is with the group. You're free to type in all-caps whenever you like, and I'm free to draw opinions based on it, or, if you're doing it on my space or time, curb the practice. You don't have a personal liberty to write how you want on somebody else's dime or blog space.

I'm not clear what exactly you're asking about capitalization, but there's certainly some interesting history for emphasis capitalization if you're looking to read more about it. Obviously it's a print-origin custom that got translated to the internet, and it seems to have stemmed from the older practice of initial capitalization only (the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries are a good time to see semantic capitalization and emphasis capitalization shaking out). All-caps is established in the early to mid 20th century as emphatic in American signage and as a volume indicator in comics. (Chappell's _A Short History of the Printed Word_ has some interesting discussion and talks about upper vs. lower case going back to Latin, if you're interested.)

If you're talking just about recent stuff, the good old Usenet FAQs and Netiquette guides include the proscription against all-caps. It's also in the Wikipedia Netiquette entry. That doesn't mean you gotta, of course. It does, however, indicate that avoidance of all-caps is, however, a common standard.

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casey451
September 3, 2009 3:09 AM
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@floraposte: floraposte, this is meant absolutely respectfully. PLEASE read the Chicago Manual of Style! I could barely make heads or tails of your post. It looked interesting. And I wouldn't mind instruction on the history of upper and lower case. If I get the drift, seems my position would be supported.

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coren
September 2, 2009 11:57 PM
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@casey451: Interfere with my well being? Nah, I'd hardly go that far at all. Irritated by it, that would more describe my feelings, certainly. Nor is it an attack on the people who do so, per se. But at the same time, it's certainly no more difficult to type in all caps than lowercase. And if people adhere to other constructs such as appropriate grammar and spelling, this one hardly seems out of line - I can't see changing from all caps to lower case as somehow interfering with one's well being.

Certainly not in the case presented here, where the woman repeatedly sent out such emails and ignored the wishes of her superiors (whether or not it's a man created law, if your boss makes a reasonable request of you, it's somewhat insubordinate to not comply, especially if warned on multiple occasions). If sending out emails was as strenuous for her (or anyone) as you describe, I'm not sure they have any business working in a job that requires that (or perhaps anything at all, considering the relative ease involved in typing, even hunt-peck style). I'm having trouble envisioning such a situation.

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casey451
September 3, 2009 12:34 AM
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@coren: If an all-capper switches to lower case to get the complainers off his/her back, suddenly those other troubling requirements rear their ugly heads - having to cap the first letter in a sentence, or initials, or LOL's 'n such, which would REALLY drive the complainers up the wall. It just never stops.

I'm on a few mailing lists that permit me to see email from the entire spectrum of humanity. All-cappers MIGHT represent two or three percent. One is a brother who is, in every other way, brilliant. Of course many of the remaining 98% have been intimidated into pecking away laboriously in upper/lower in obedience to their MASTERS of CONCEIT out there.

Poor things. Balls. We need more balls. Like that lady in New Zealand. She KNEW she would win a tidy little sum for herself, because most judicial systems will recognize that she was dealing with know-nothing busybodies who were preoccupied with the piddling. Really. Would YOU not settle that suit LONG before it got down to business? Or would you be smart enough to get the other employees to straighten out their panties and get back to work before the thing even started?

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 8:52 PM
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@casey451: ...Y'know, for someone who says all caps has nothing to do with shouting, you sure do punctuate a lot of all-caps words with exclamation marks.

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casey451
September 2, 2009 9:09 PM
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@diasdiem: You have a problem with emphasis? Why? And exclamation marks are not allowed either?

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 9:26 PM
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@casey451: Nah, I just found it kind of ironic that your rant about all-caps not being about shouting had several instances of all-caps words being used to denote shouting. At least, that's how I interpreted it. It's the exclamation marks that really do it. \"THIS\" and \"ONE WORD\" were the only all-cap phrases that weren't in close proximity to an exclamation mark. When I read something like that, I automatically associate a louder volume to it.

Bold and italics are better for emphasis than all-caps anyway.

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casey451
September 2, 2009 9:48 PM
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@diasdiem: In typesetting for print, bold and italics are lovely. In email, it's a hassle and HTML (oh, sorry) grows the size to big and bad.

Your other concern - that all caps means \"shouting\" - is, as you so guilelessly say, your \"interpretation\". You are free to choose another interpretation. If you let any interpretation prevent you from understanding the message, I have to consider that your loss, not mine.

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AstroPig7
September 2, 2009 9:17 PM
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@casey451: We’re discussing general etiquette, not personal pet peeves. Regardless of its merit, excessive capital letters are synonymous with shouting. No amount of complaining will change this, just like no amount of complaining will completely stop the use of \"irregardless\" and other barbarisms.

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casey451
September 2, 2009 9:34 PM
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@AstroPig7: No getting around it - this is a made-up law. By a human. It's therefore fallible, debatable, and may be considered absurd and anal by other humans, including me. I don't find emails in all caps to be offensive in the least. There are any number of reasons for people to do this, and I don't think I'm prepared to judge whether they are misbehaving, deliberately scoffing (fake) laws, or deranged.

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floraposte
September 3, 2009 12:11 AM
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@casey451: Of course it's a made-up law by a human. So's \"drive on this side of the road.\" So's the law by which she received damages. Made-up laws by humans govern our lives. You can deviate from them if you like, but then it's silly to bitch that people are judging you as a result.

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casey451
September 3, 2009 1:01 AM
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@floraposte: You REALLY want to compare driving on the wrong side of the road with writing emails in all caps? And I am supposed to find this illuminating, how?

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coren
September 3, 2009 1:57 AM
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@casey451: Troubling requirements? I don't know, if I'm sending email in my role as an employee, I'd expect a certain level of adherence to professional writing - that is to say, using the accepted rules of grammar and sentence structure. And while you can certainly make a case that all caps being a no-no is a recent development, capitalization has been around for years (and lol shouldn't be an issue - either it's business communication, in which case you're rarely given cause to laugh at anything! ;) or it's personal communication in which case no one really cares either way (that I've seen)) and is pretty much universally accepted. To put it another way, would you hand write a note or letter or card in all caps? If not, why is it more appropriate to do it because it's being done on the Internet?

I'm not sure how using upper and lower case is somehow more laborious (to borrow your term) than the occasional use of the shift key (or brief on/off of the Caps Lock if preferred) - it generates perhaps 20 or 30 more keystrokes on the average correspondence, which hardly seems like a great concern (and in the example of the brief two sentence people from your earlier post, maybe five keystrokes), especially when one considers that there are other keys such as the question and exclamation mark that also require shift.

And that's not a knock on your friend who does all caps - it just goes against our social norms is all. He isn't the first to do it, won't be the last - but all the same, it is a social norm.

And no, I wouldn't settle the suit, but I also wouldn't just up and fire her for one use of caps lock - so I suspect that there's more going on here than Fox reported, but then again, that would be the norm for Fox, so. I certainly have trouble believing it was \"too confrontational\" after \"nap time\". The guy doing the firing sounds nutty when it's painted like that (and for all I know, he is). That doesn't mean he wasn't in the right firing her - there's a lot of info missing.

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casey451
September 3, 2009 2:43 AM
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@coren: Coren, I know it's hard, but try to imagine not knowing how to keyboard and suddenly being expected to do so, constantly. Some people are good at hunting and pecking and don't mind having to place punctuation and caps properly. Others are not. Or they may not have the time to devote to perfectly punctuated email. I'm simply saying it is not worth getting uptight about those who don't. And threatening those who don't will likely result in the loss of a possibly great employee, cutting off your nose to spite your face, as they say. Unless you want to argue that an employee who types emails in all caps CAN'T be a great employee, in which case your judgment about running a business would have to be called into question.

Social norms can be, and often are, stupid. This one is particularly stupid.

We will never get the whole story about anything, from anybody. Based on the info offered here, the lady in New Zealand made fools of her bosses and officemates, for which I applaud her.

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coren
September 3, 2009 2:56 AM
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@casey451: If it's their job, too bad. That sounds harsh, but it's the way things are - if you are hired with certain expectations and duties and are unable to meet and fulfill such, then said job can be taken away. Outside of that scenario it doesn't really matter, because the reality of this situation is that it was a workplace.

I seriously doubt this lady was fired *just* for going on cruise control for cool. And certainly the details may never come out - but my read on the situation is far different, and similar to another up thread - poorly documented claims and probably a lack of notice given the quick response between email and firing.

And this is no more stupid than many other norms, and actually has good purpose. Aside from the idea that it is shouting, all caps is much harder to read for the average person (which I'm sure you already know) and serves no actual purpose in use other than laziness or convenience. In a business setting, it has no place, particularly if the supervisor/boss/employer specifies such. Stupid or not, they get to make the rules (and believe me, I've met some that had stupid rules - soda in a can/bottle, not ok. Soda in a mug, even if it was poured from bottle/can, fine. No idea why - just that it's the rules) and employees follow them.

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casey451
September 3, 2009 3:28 AM
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@coren: We certainly have chewed THIS one to bits.

Consider that many employees were on the job before you were born. They never learned to type. We owe them a break - a grandfather clause that allows them to do what they want in their email, as long as they know how to send them and save them. There's a whole world of head wiring that you are assuming can just spring into being when confronted with new technology. My mother, who would be over 100 now, looked on her TV, phone, VCR and called her circumstances a \"push-button fight for life\". We all knew she would never make the transition to digital stuff.

And then there are the last adopters. What have THEY done to deserve your wrath? Must everyone be instantly conscious of e-etiquette or whatever you guys call that nonsense? They may have much more important things on their minds than how they should avoid offending you. Since I don't know if the readers of my email are senior citizens or beginners in the world of typetalk, they ALL get the benefit of a doubt from me. And I hope they enjoy it, since somebody is gonna jump on their case at any minute simply for doing their best at something that's not at the top of their list of mastered tasks.

I hope YOU'RE not guilty of ruler-snapping the knuckles of all-cappers.

One other thing - where are the revolutionaries in the x y or z generations? Nobody's for giving anybody a break these days. Very strange.

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AstroPig7
September 2, 2009 10:04 PM
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@casey451: Language and typography are human creation, as are their effects. That is, unless you're suggesting that uppercase is somehow a physical constant defined by God. Other human creations include your personal style, which apparently ignores established definitions (e.g., \"law\") and proper usage of the comma. If you believe that your interpretation of style should trump general usage, then you’ll find yourself battling uphill in the mud. As another commenter noted in this thread, the audience is the ultimate recipient of the message, so their reactions matter more than yours. Writing in any other fashion is, frankly, masturbatory.

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casey451
September 2, 2009 10:27 PM
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@AstroPig7: \" Writing in any other fashion is, frankly, masturbatory.\" What in the world does this mean?

I can't help it if you are disturbed by all caps. I'm not. I don't think it is appropriate to judge people if they use all caps. It just doesn't have in impact that the \"law\" would consider obstructing another's pursuit of happiness. Etiquette is a joke; was for my generation, and certainly is for yours. So how do you get your controlling rocks off? It seems hassling emailers for their \"styles\" is one way. Boring, and a hideous waste of time.

I'd love to see your authority on the use of commas, BTW (oh, sorry).

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AstroPig7
September 3, 2009 1:51 AM
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@casey451: It means that if you're writing for an audience of one, i.e. yourself, then posting it in public is pure self-gratification. If a writer doesn't care about their audience, then why are they addressing said audience? How that audience reacts to certain conventions, such as a long string of capital letters, should be taken into account if a writer cares at all about their message. As a graphic designer, you should know that an abundance of capital letters makes a message difficult to read, which is why so many style manuals advise against it (e.g., The Chicago Manual of Style).

Moving on, I didn't say I was disturbed by strings of capital letters. I also didn't say anything else that you've mentioned. Who are you arguing with?

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casey451
September 3, 2009 2:28 AM
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@AstroPig7: If I'm writing for an audience of one, what are all you guys hanging around for?

Just because so few of you agree with me doesn't mean there may be others out there who do or who actually permit new ideas to leak into their neural cells.

If you care that much about \"long strings of capital letters\", I guess that explains why you're here, expressing yourself.

I am a graphic designer. Most other people are not. I don't expect those others to have the same knowledge I have about this subject.

Hardly anybody reads or refers to the Chicago Manual of Style, and to expect everyone to do so is absurd.

So you are not disturbed by strings of capital letters? O....k.

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AstroPig7
September 3, 2009 3:53 AM
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@casey451: I didn't say that you were writing for an audience of one or doing much else aside from misusing words. I was speaking of general cases and why the audience matters. You've repeatedly taken a defensive stance against things that you weren't accused of and things that other posters have not put forward. You're arguing with straw men, avoiding your own words, and denying the validity of any source that doesn't support you, so I'll drop off and leave you to those things.

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casey451
September 3, 2009 4:34 AM
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@AstroPig7: You would have to provide examples of each of the things you assert I am doing to you. You seem very put upon. And then you walk out. Who's avoiding stuff here, huh?

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CheritaChen
September 4, 2009 7:08 PM
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@casey451: You are certainly avoiding any acceptance of rational arguments, for one. I have learned that ignorance such as you have displayed is without exception an intentionally maintained and stubbornly defended state.

You refuse to acknowledge that, in the case of TFA, the boss makes the rules. If he was paying her to only use pink paper, as someone noted above, then by golly, that's what she should have done.

You also seem oblivious to the (repeatedly explained above) empirical fact that all-caps text is harder to read. This alone would be a fair reason for an employer to make a rule against it. However, the concept of all-caps-as-shouting is not just \"some made-up rule.\" When I first began reading the Usenet many years ago, I came to the analogy all on my own after suffering through the all-cap posts of some users. Am I somehow unwittingly responsible for having \"made up\" this \"rule\"? Uh, no. I obviously wasn't the only person who had this perception, and the majority of the online community seems to agree.

The only circumstance in which I would not consider all-caps to be a reflection of laziness, rudeness, and disrespect for the reader would be if no lowercase glyphs were available at all. This is rarely the case in the modern world. If typing is too difficult for someone to learn to do properly, then they need to find something else to do. That's not judging them as a person; it's a practical determination.

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Smashville
September 2, 2009 9:41 PM
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@casey451: Are there portions of the legal system that were not created by humans?

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casey451
September 2, 2009 10:37 PM
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@Smashville_makes his own comments at home: Thankfully, all laws, on the books or not, are subject to change in the good ol' USA. Just ask the black kids who, within our lifetime, were not allowed to attend certain schools.

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casey451
September 2, 2009 10:06 PM
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@Smashville_makes his own comments at home: So she really didn't have a case? And the jury was made up of stupid Luddites?

This no all caps thing will NEVER make it into the books, guys.

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 9:49 PM
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@Smashville_makes his own comments at home: Yeah seriously. Maybe he's talking about natural laws. I don't recall any rules about not using all caps when they taught about thermodynamics in physics class either.

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ubermex
September 2, 2009 8:52 PM
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When I go to work, I have to wear business dress clothes. I cannot yell and scream. I cannot curse. I cannot spit.

These things are etiquette and they are important in the workplace. Why should my business related electronic communication be any less scrutinized.

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Julius Seizure
September 2, 2009 8:59 PM
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I wonder if it's a cultural thing. I'm working with a group of systems people from a massive fictional outsourcing company from u-know-where and literally all of their documents look like this:

THIS-IS-THE-USE-CASE-MODEL.doc

When I suggested \"ThisIsTheUseCaseModel.doc\" or even \"thisistheusecasemodel.com\" would be much more readable, they looked at me like I had 8 heads. I assume it's because English isn't their first language and all three files look equally unreadable in their eyes.

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floraposte
September 3, 2009 2:06 AM
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@Julius Seizure. (the CANUCK one): I'm a little more flexible on filenames, probably because I work more on the documents than their listing, and there's not so much doc-sharing--what there is is extremely variable in its name construction. It's therefore more like desktop settings to me--a personal preference rather than an established standard. (I have converted old pre-Windows files that didn't have a lower-case option. It still freaks me out to see them listed in a directory.)

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coren
September 3, 2009 1:28 AM
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@Julius Seizure. (the CANUCK one): I can see why the no caps version wouldn't fly - it's the lack of word separation. And if there's use of a file system where capitalization matters, I can see why a certain level of conformity would be desirable as well - no caps or all caps, but not a combination, so as to make navigation easier. But the use of hyphens/dashes seems rather arbitrary - i rather thought lower case and underscores or spaces would be standard, not that ALL-CAPS-ANNOYANCE that you posted.

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 9:11 PM
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@Julius Seizure. (the CANUCK one): Well, they're foreign, so they're probably used to people talking really loudly at them in English, so they'll understand.

...\"fictional outsourcing company?\" What, you mean it doesn't exist? Or do they write novels for other people?

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DePaulBlueDemon
September 2, 2009 9:11 PM
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@AirIntake: I rebelled against the nuns in Catholic school who tried \"teach\" me (read: slap with a ruler) to write in neat cursive. As a result, I never learned how and now my signature is something akin to \"cursive printing\".

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corinthos
September 2, 2009 9:12 PM
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I can't read things when they are in all caps. My brain just doesn't process it right. I also can't stand colors. I do put things in bold or underline words though but usually because most people just skim emails and at least they see what it kindof important.

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 9:29 PM
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@corinthos: Worse is the combination of all-caps with the dreaded \"wall of text\" faux pas. Commonly seen in terms of agreement and EULAs everywhere.

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[DFX] Deimos
September 2, 2009 9:15 PM
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I am glad that we have at will employment in the United States.


You can (and will) be fired for any reason (including excessive usage of CAPS) at any time.

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floraposte
September 3, 2009 12:31 AM
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@[DFX] Deimos: If you're in a job that's not subject to other contractual limitations, of course.

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StanTheManDean
September 2, 2009 9:18 PM
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Any form of communication should be held to a reasonable standard of conduct. Sloppy or inappropriate written communication should never be tolerated.


Employee should have been terminated on the first offense.

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diasdiem
September 2, 2009 9:54 PM
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@StanTheManDean: ...and docked a day's wages for sloppy communication! Now go and send down to the work house for another batch of orphans! There was another \"mangler\" accident at the mill.

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StanTheManDean
September 3, 2009 2:04 AM
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@diasdiem:


Actually down South here we just shout out to the plantation and take the next available slave.


Sorry, but if you are going to mention orphan labor then I will retaliate with slave labor. Both are horrible practices.

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MostlyHarmless
September 2, 2009 9:32 PM
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@itiswhatitis: I print when taking important one line notes. Or making a list. Or when using the whiteboard. Otherwise I scribble in cursive. '

Though it has gotten slightly difficult - thanks to me not being required to write all that much at all.

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HogwartsAlum
September 2, 2009 9:48 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: I use it when I write by hand, which isn't often. My hands and wrists are completely shot from doing repetitive work in food service and handling heavy stuff there. Also, I type so much that my fingers cramp up after a short while if I use a pen. Different muscles, I guess.

Made taking notes in college a little hard sometimes. I had to make up a weird style of note-taking so I could shorten it and remember what the hell the professor meant later.

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Nicole
September 3, 2009 1:54 AM
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@HogwartsAlum: I always just brought my laptop and typed my notes in college. My handwriting is atrocious and I wouldn't be able to read them later otherwise.

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HogwartsAlum
September 3, 2009 2:25 PM
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@Nicole: I didn't have a laptop then. I no had any moneys.

I have one now, but it's too damn heavy to lug around. I need a netbook.

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henrygates
September 2, 2009 9:43 PM
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Emails, in my opinion, should be written just like any formal business letter. It's just professional. I've had employees email me with missing punctuation, sentence fragments, caps in random places, and \"texting language\".

It's just unprofessional and lazy to attach a document and email it to your colleague with:

hey here is that project file u wanted if you need anything else let me know. k, bye

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rdclark
September 2, 2009 9:59 PM
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It's all about training and certification. If sending official email is part of one's job, then the company is responsible for seeing that the employee is properly trained to comply with its published procedures and guidelines. And such training is woefully rare.

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Vandelay Import Export
September 2, 2009 10:10 PM
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I always send e-mail in plain text (and never in all caps), since I know regardless of what device they are going to be read on they can be read without problem. How hard can it be?

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Rachacha
September 2, 2009 11:35 PM
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The use of all CAPS and colors in E-mail may be annoying, but I believe that there are things which should be addressed first:
1) The use of any background image or \"Stationary\" in E-mail should be banned.


2) The quoting of scripture passages or cutesy sayings in your E-mail signature should be banned (The exception would be if you are employed by a religious institution)


3) Ban the use of \"Notify sender when recepient opens E-mail\". Here is a hint senders...I disable all notifications being sent to you, so you will never know when I opened the E-mail, and I purposely save up your E-mails in a special folder, all unread, and turn on the notification and delete 500 messages all at once which will send you 500 seperate E-mail notifications letting you know that I deleted your messages without reading them.


(I am feeling especially bitter today.)

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StanTheManDean
September 3, 2009 2:17 AM
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@Rachacha:


Background image? Damn right. It was cute the first time. 200 emails later I am not a happy person. I have been known to go all postal when I am not a happy person.


Scripture? Offensive. I am not of the same religion as you. Keep your comments to yourself, I will do the same and everything will be better because we respect each other.

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casey451
September 3, 2009 12:08 AM
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@Rachacha: Haha. That's great. Why back off this sensible attitude by blaming it on bitterness? I believe you've achieved a certain level of super consciousness from which those little twits will be running for their lives!

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jayphat
September 2, 2009 11:49 PM
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I find the fact that \"yes should should be fired\"is winning in the poll by alot humorous. My boss types like this on her BB and I've lost track of the number of times I;ve told her to stop. Moreso, she does it to emails that have already been sent to both myself and her, puts \"MAKE SURE YOU'RE FOLLOWING THIS\" or something else redundant on the top, THEN forwards it again.

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corbyz
September 3, 2009 12:14 AM
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The word is lede, not lead. Buried the lede.

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Adhominem
September 3, 2009 2:49 AM
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This is a perfectly acceptable reason to fire someone. If I emailed my professor for a letter of recommendation like I talk to my friend's on instant messenger I would surely not only not get what I requested but perhaps rub the professor the wrong way and have it effect my grades throughout the semester.

Email etiquette falls under People Skills, and that's a requirement under every job description I've seen.

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coren
September 3, 2009 3:01 AM
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@Adhominem: Rub them the wrong way, certainly, but not effect your grade I'd hope, particularly since it seems you have a prior (good, I would think) relationship with them...

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ZhannTk
September 3, 2009 3:30 AM
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I'd like to point out that the normal procedure in New Zealand for dismissal from a job requires at least two written warnings and one verbal warning (which usually takes place with two managers and a support person for you.)

Unless its the case of gross incompetence you just can't go \"You're fired!\"

In this case you'd think that something like this would only warrant a written warning?

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ItsCurtainsForYou
September 3, 2009 3:41 AM
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Now that she's unemployed, she should apply to be Kanye West's typist for his MySpace blog.

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golddog
September 3, 2009 5:25 AM
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Swear. To. God. I had an older support person who didn't want to use a computer b/c her health wasn't the best and she didn't want to catch a virus from it.

Please baby boomers. PLEASE. Go out like Seinfeld or John Elway - on top of your game. Don't make us force you out to pasture like Brett Farvre or Michael Jordan. It's not Gen Xers fault you're 68 and all your money was in stocks.

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CFinWV
September 3, 2009 12:46 PM
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Discipline, yes. Fireable? Not right away. If someone doesn't get it that their emails are against the corporate code of conduct then a few suspensions without pay should get to them. If THAT doesn't work then you need to follow routine procedure for removal.

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ViolentPiranha
September 3, 2009 12:57 PM
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At least someone finally has done SOMETHING about those pesky all-caps e-mailers.

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Tom_Servo
September 3, 2009 1:09 PM
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As a Network Administrator that gets TONS of e-mails, if one comes in all caps, I ignore it. I'm sorry, turn off the caps lock and type as if you have some education or intelligence.

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Smashville
September 3, 2009 3:02 PM
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@Nicole: Zaner-Bloser.

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kaceetheconsumer
September 3, 2009 3:13 PM
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Knowing the moronic way I see people use all caps, I think the third choice should be \"I DONT UNDERSTEND WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!!1!!11!\"

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nocturnaljames
September 4, 2009 9:11 AM
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Perfectly justified termination in my opinion.. inappropriate use of email.

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LeChiffre
September 4, 2009 3:16 PM
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I just think the \"all caps\" thing is absolutely ridiculous and I don't really care. We have people here at work that type in caps and it is just the way they type because they're not very good at it. The only thing that makes all caps \"yelling\" is inside your HEAD (the receiver). It's a psychological manipulation that you're allowing with yourself by thinking the \"sender\" is yelling. It's also very presumptuous to put that burden on the sender, when in fact it may not be the case at all. Let it GO! I thought all caps were an AOL thing that 13 year olds worried about, not us adults. People bothered by such annoyances especially at work either do not have enough work to do or need to begin focusing on the message's point and not the typing.

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shockmonk3y
September 4, 2009 5:43 PM
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I don't understand how people get away with this sort of thing... all I can think of is Miss. TooStupidToKnowCoffeIsHot and her winnings.

I don't know the whole story, but if this woman was warned, and still didn't get it, there should be no grounds for her to succeed in a lawsuit.

When the heck did we start catering to de-evolution of the human intellect?

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sevenwhitehorses
September 4, 2009 6:07 PM
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i find a few things confusing here:

first-if one looks at what she was doing it appears that the people below her were not filling out forms correctly and if that is the issue her steps seem appropriate. using colours and bold type to emphasize what needs to be adhered to and complied with.

second-if her boss has such a dysfuntional section perhaps that boss is the one who should be let go

third-all caps to many people are not yelling they are just easier to read and are to make a point but not a yelling point.

people get over sensitive and put their values on to many things without looking at the other persons point of view today. so yes ageist may be a point to be considered here.

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