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A car dealer will give you an oil change for two or three times the price you would pay at a quick lube place, but you could do it yourself for less than either. Where's the outrage?
What's wrong with charging people for a service?
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@FormerlyAnonymous: I am 100% willing to pay someone else $25 to change my oil while I sit in their air-conditioned (or heated) lounge, drink their coffee, eat one of their cookies (admittedly meh cookies, but good coffee), and use their wifi. I will decline the air filter, but be glad they pointed out my tires should be rotated.
Sure, I *could* do at home. But it's hot outside (or cold), parking lot is filthy, I'm easily distracted (read: realising two hours later when I want to go out to eat that I never finished changing it), I actually *don't* have the tools and have no interest in buying them at this point in time, am opposed to letting the oil off into the grass but unaware of where to take it and probably too lazy to do so anyway.
That makes $25 good for me.
Same game as most well-off people could clean their own houses, if they chose to, but why bother with the hassle when you could pay someone else, and use that time for something else?
@FormerlyAnonymous:
It's clear that people are paying for the service and ease rather than for the technical challenge involved in the process. This goes for both the Oil Change and this Best Buy procedure. Now imagine if your local garage charged $130 for the same 15 minute oil change. Even if people are suckered into being willing to pay for it, it's still a borderline scam/rip-off.
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@teddylj: That might be worth it if they sent the mechanic out to your house to do the oil change on site.
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@FormerlyAnonymous: Here's an idea - for the price, they should also have to be able and fix the red circle of death at any point in the future after install or replace it and deliver to you without you having to drag it to the store...
@Areyouagoodlittleconsumer: Want to point out where there has ever, in the history of playstations, been a red ring of death on there :)
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@FormerlyAnonymous: This is highly biased over-reaction.
Um, do you people realize what you're even saying?? I had a friend, nice guy and all, but he was essentially illiterate and was a Jiffy Lube MANAGER. Y' know, the place y'all are referring to that charges $20 for a service requiring \"special tools and expertise\"?
If by \"special tools\", you mean \"a socket wrench\" and \"expertise\" you mean \"can loosen and tighten bolt\". And the necessary level of skill is arguably higher for this service than changing oil. There's plenty of people who pay for basic gardening, which requires little more than a lawnmower and (maybe) a hedgetrimmer...
This is an issue of convenience, nothing more.
The real question is what is the base rate this charge is calculated from? At a reasonable $65/hr, that's 2 hours of in-home service. That's roughly the same amount of time the most technically adept teen would take to accomplish all the same tasks.
@FormerlyAnonymous: This would be akin to charging someone $130 to make it so their VCR displays the correct time instead of blinking 12:00 all day 15 years ago.
I realize that not everyone may have the technical know how to set up a PS3/360/Wii/PC or whatever, but the price they want is practically daylight robbery.
I guess on the other hand, we're rapidly entering the generation of parents who had computers and other \"high technology\" when they were teens or kids, so best buy's service is rapidly going to be kaput on this new generation of parent unless they've been living under a rock or something.
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@FormerlyAnonymous: The outrage is that offering the service implies to naive customers that it's necessary to get a professional install to use your PS3. This isn't a Cray, it's an overglorified interactive VCR.
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@FormerlyAnonymous: I agree with MostlyHarmless. It's a bad analogy. Oil changes require some higher level of skill and knowhow, and oftentimes, people are constrained by where they live and cannot perform auto maintenance themselves.
I really don't see there being an instance in which someone can't put a plug into a wall and connect the other end to the console, or get someone to do the same. That's really not something that takes more skill - it just takes the motor skills that even a 6 year old has. I would understand that if you were in a wheelchair, or had back problems, that stooping down would be difficult - but it doesn't take a \"professional\" of any kind to plug in the machine. And it certainly doesn't warrant a $130 fee.
Higher level of skill?
On most cars, you unscrew a bolt, let it drain. Unscrew old filter, screw in new filter, fill with oil.
AND you have to drive to the mechanic to have it done.
How much would an at home oil change cost?
This same service would cost $29 at a best buy store... its the inhomeness that gets you.
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@endless: You hit the nail on the head it's the driving out to the house. Instead of comparing this to an oil change this needs to be compared to another in home service.
@endless: My point was that there are certain constraints in which normal citizens may not be able to do their own oil changes, or cannot get the neighbor to help them - yes, oil changes do require a level of skill that perhaps the average citizen does not possess.
But plugging a cord into an outlet is not something that requires a certain level of skill. You can live in an apartment, a house, a shack in the back woods - as long as you have electricity and an outlet, you can figure out how to plug a cord into the wall.
Best Buy charging $130 for something so simple crosses the line from being helpful to taking advantage, IMO. This is slightly different from when AOL (in the 90s) was charging slightly more than other ISPs because it touted its remarkable built-in antivirus. Savvy people knew they could get good antivirus programs for free online, but the normal citizen, if he or she was not tech savvy, didn't have a handy guide to doing this themselves very easily.
You don't have to be tech savvy to follow instructions on a screen, or to know what a power cord looks like. or to hook up a console to a TV, because most likely, you've hooked up a DVD player or a VCR before.
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@pecan 3.14159265: For many people, there is a great fear that they will \"screw something up\" if they connect something up to their TV incorrectly. My parents will regularly call me when they get a new TV asking me how to connect the cable box and VCR to their TV (mind you they live 400 miles away, and I have not lived at home for almost 20 years, and I only get to visit them at home about once a year).
While it may only take a Geek Squad technician 30 minutes to do the full setup and installation (yes, I am assuming a bit of \"milking it\" and going back to the truck to get the proper cables), you have to add in 20-30 minute drive from the store to your home. Assuming 1 hour door to door, you are looking at a rate of $2.20/minute, it is not an extrordinary cost.
The same can be said about people and oil changes. Changing your oil is a very simple process that most people don't care to learn how to do. Many of these people view anything under the hood as a great mystery and believe it requires years of training to learn how to change the oil, even though it is so simple that my 5 year old could do it). A service technician can change your oil and filter in about 10 minutes, and they charge you about $30-$40 depending on where you go. With about $7 in parts, you are looking at a rate of $2.30/minute, right in line with the BB technician.
I used to work in an electronics repair shop cleaning VCRs. VCR cleanings would run $45. It took 5 minutes to take the unit apart, clean the heads, rejuvinate the rollers & guide wheels, put the cover back on and test the unit to ensure it worked properly. I was taught how to do this in about 5 minutes. Completing the paperwork took twice as long
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@pecan 3.14159265: And hell, the reason I take my car in for maintenance work is (half the time) they'll tell me if there's something legitimately wrong with my car, too. I know there's always the risk of being fleeced, but my local mechanic is pretty trust worthy.
He lets you keep the parts he replaces if you want just so you can see what /was/ replaced.
@FormerlyAnonymous: In addition to what MostlyHarmless said, some people, such as myself, simply can't change their own oil. I live in an apartment building, and my lease forbids any sort of service on your car while it's at the building. So I'm fine with paying someone $20 to do it.
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@FormerlyAnonymous: Yeah... but 130 bucks? Thats almost HALF the price of the console itself.
And an oil change does involve some tinkering. This does not. Its not even in the same ballpark as an oil change.
Bad Analogy.
@MostlyHarmless: What tinkering?
1. Remove drain plug.
2. Wait.
3. Replace plug.
4. Pull off old filter.
5. Put on new filter
6. Put in new oil.
The only difference between oil and a PS3 is that more people know how to plug in a PS3 than change oil.
Still, I know people who are terrified to do anything to the back of their AV components and would gladly pay $130 to have someone do it.
Besides, with some of the custom installs I've seen, $130 could be a steal. I still wouldn't let GS near my equipment.
@pecan 3.14159265: Ditto for your car.
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@Xerloq wants to...: I'm assuming you don't just let the old oil drain in the sewers?
Not having to deal with recycling the old sludge is worth the extra $10 bucks. Which I'd end up paying for containers and driving it to a facility, potential oil stains, etc.
Completely different than plugging in a console.
@Trai_Dep: Of course not! I poured it on your lawn =).
You use the empties.
Again, to the point, there are some people who would not want to deal with the hassle of moving their TV to deal with the tangle of wires, dust and cobwebs to do something they're not sure how to do (even if it is fairly straightforward.) I'm not one of them.
Just for kicks and giggles, what happens to those people who would have bought the $130 rip-off service if it were made illegal?
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@Xerloq wants to...: and what do you do with the waste oil? Not a single person here has mentioned that yet. You have to drive it to a disposal site, and most places charge for disposal. Since I already have to drive out to get my oil and my filter, and then make a second trip to dispose of the waste oil... I don't see how paying Wal-Mart 5 bucks more to do it all in one trip (and replace my windshield wiper fluid and such) is a bad deal. Its not even a matter of being difficult at that point, its a matter of not wanting to deal with waste oil or any potential city ordinances in regards to the proper storage and disposal of it.
@eXo: Most places (meaning every Wal-mart and Jiffy Lube) I've been to will accept up to 5 quarts of oil for free.
Besides, the point isn't to argue about the ease of changing oil, but that it is easy if you have basic familiarity with the process. Just because 90% of people can hook up their PS3 doesn't mean it's easy (or should be) for the other 10%.
Also, to Pecan's point, if you're going to buy something, like a PS3, hopefully you would take the time to learn how it works. I argue the same holds true for a car. If you own one you should learn how to operate it's basic functions.
The trouble with AV components is that they do appear complicated to some, hence people buying the service.
Instead of bitching about it here, why not take your local scout troop over, stand in front of Best Buy and volunteer their AV expertise in hooking up people's electronics for free.
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@Xerloq wants to...: I agree you should learn to use your own purchases!
Before I was allowed to drive the family car I had to pass my father's test involving changing a tire, the oil and jump a battery.
Now when my father wants a new gizmo I force him to do the same, he had to learn how to make playlists and buy music before he got an ipod.
worked out very well both ways!
@Xerloq wants to...: Oh, and yes I have taken my scout troop for electronics related service projects.
And we've done community oil changes, too, with the help of a mechanic and a generous church's parking lot.
@Xerloq wants to...:
You forgot:
7) Drive oil to collection facility, deposit used oil in proper receptacle.
8) Get sued when collection facility gives it to another facility that dumps it in the ground, even if they are accepted as legit. (Yay Superfund!)
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@Xerloq wants to...: It's a stretch. Oil changes require tools most people don't have lying around, filter wrench, the right sized socked for the oil plug, a jack to get under the car. Plus you're leaving out the cost and trouble of oil disposal which is arguably the best reason to let some else deal with it.
There are also quite a few ways you can seriously screw up an oil change that will severley damange your car, over/under filling the oil, not lubing the filter gasket. There is really now way you can break something while trying to hook up the PS3 unless you drop it.
PS3 comes with everything, you plug it in and turn it on, couldn't be easier.
@Xerloq wants to...: My car manual doesn't tell me how to change the oil...and I can't do it in my parking garage. Which is not to say that you can't plug your own PS3 into the wall because you live in a trailer, or you live in a boat.
@MostlyHarmless: As I understand it, this process can easily take well over 15 minutes. Not only do you have to drive yourself out to the customer's house, get behind the TV and sound systems (and who knows how messy their house is, making this hard) but then you have to get it hooked up to their internet access device, get the PS3 patched (probably takes the longest of all steps, even though it's mostly waiting), show the customer how to use the thing, etc.
It's not really fair to compare the cost of a device to the cost of having a human give assistance for it.
@FormerlyAnonymous: Thats a pretty bad rationalization. And I've been on the interwebs for over a decade. So that's saying a lot.
And seriously dude, its just plugging stuff in and clicking a few buttons. As Pecan Pi said, it basically requires the motor skills of a 6 year old.
And I once had a cleaning crew clean out the whole house in an hour for 80 bucks. Try again.
@MostlyHarmless: A lot of people are intimidated by electronics and simply don't care to learn anything about hooking them up. I had a neighbor pay me $150 to hook up a new home theater receiver for him one time. The cables were already run, I just needed to label everything plugged into the old receiver, pull it out, and plug it in the new receiver. It took all of 15 minutes. He laughted and gave me the cash saying \"that would've taken me all day.\" Best Buy makes a ton of money from people that just don't give a shit about learning how to hook up electronics. I don't see any reason to get upset about it.
@secret_curse: I don't care enough about it to be upset about it. I'm just saying its pretty absurd and \"way out there\".
@FormerlyAnonymous: If you're making the decision to buy the thing, presumably you have some idea of what it is, how to use it, and possess the intelligence to do something the rest of humanity calls, \"figuring it out\" - I really don't see why anyone would need someone to do this for them.
Just because the process may take time, doesn't mean that it's overly complicated and can't be done by a normal person. If you're 80 years old, and you've made the decision to purchase a PS3, I would hope that you know what it is and how to work the basic functions. If not, there's something very handy called a manual, and it comes with the machine.
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@pecan 3.14159265: Agreed. And most importantly, the PS3 is a GRAPHICAL INTERFACE. It has visual menus that tell you how to do things. Like set up online accounts. This isn't DOS, people, it's not like the technician knows the magic command to make it work. They're just capitalizing on people who don't think they're very tech-savvy, who maybe bought the thing for their son/daughter and want someone else to set it up. $130 is a LOT of money for the measly service they're providing.
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I would guess this is more for non-tech-savvy parents who want to make sure that parental controls are set up properly. They can't very well have their tech-smart kids setting the parental control passwords for them...can they?
@DaBull: I'm usually all for a \"stupid/lazy tax\" that charges a premium for something you could easily do yourself, but $130 is still outrageous.
@DaBull:
Frankly I'm bored with this presumption that anyone over the age of 15 isn't \"tech savvy\". If an adult can't read an instruction manual and figure out how to plug in any electrical device or \"get on the interwebs\" than they never, ever, ever should have procreated. Geek Squad and the late, lamented dog-thing Circuit City had should exist for the lazy, and in those cases charge them whatever price it takes to convince them to stop being so lazy.
@DaBull: i doubt a non tech savy person would even know what parental controls are or know that they are available on the ps3. also most parents dont even care about what games thier kids play. i can just imagine a parent paying for this service and a few weeks later buyin thier kid a m-rated game and having to call geek sqaud out to come \"fix\" the ps3 cus it cant play the new game.
@DaBull:
I'm not sure what on the PS3 requires parental controls. If you don't buy the kids M rated games...what else is there to look out for?
@DaBull: In this case you are basically paying for someone to drive to your house, spend 15-20 minutes and leave. What's the cost of that for any non-warranty visit? Plumber? Heating?
For an onsite service, as basic (dumb) as it is, $130 is not an outrageous price.
@DaBull: When I was about 15, my parents and I were watching TV and a V-chip commercial came on. My parents (jokingly) talked about implementing it on our TV. I responded that they'd have a tough time doing that without my help because I'd already disabled it and set the PIN several months back so that I wouldn't come home to find that my parents had locked themselves out of every show.
Joking aside, I don't have much of a problem with this service. The price is a bit insane, but if you're willing to pay it, that's fine. I pay to get my oil changed because I don't have a driveway and, frankly, I'd rather pay someone to do it than risk messing it up.
When it comes to computer repairs, there are a few things that are easy enough that I'd even trust Geek Squad to do them. Such as a reformat/reinstall (as long as you don't have any personal data on the computer) or setting up a PS3.
My biggest problems with Geek Squad come with the more complicated repairs. The ones that result in them shipping off your computer for a new DVD drive only to have it come back with a \"new\" (but broken) motherboard.
I recommend to people considering Geek Squad (or any other computer service) that they (1) back up their data and delete anything personal on there, and (2) never let their computer out of their sight. Since this service doesn't violate either one of those rules, then I don't really have a problem with it.