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zacox

September 24, 2009 2:07 PM

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Chances are that they actually use the personally identifying information they collect to prove that there are actual, living humans with those names. This way they can sell those names so more people get more junk! Sort of like the way spammers use removal requests to verify email addresses.

1 replies

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September 24, 2009 3:16 PM

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@zacox: The chances of that happening from the DMA are exactly zero. If you live in America, there's a 99.9999% chance DMA member companies know your name, address, names of people in your household, phone number, and general income information. They can probably also tie that to an email address that you use. The DMA is actually a legit organization. There are other groups out there doing exactly what you describe, but the DMA isn't one of them.

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September 24, 2009 2:10 PM

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Not only do half way decent websites NOT store passwords in plaintext, they also do not store it in any form that can be decrypted. They store hashes. The only way to confirm the password is to enter the password, hash it, and see if it matches the earlier hash. That way, even the sysadmin cannot see your password.

Of course, asking people to keep different passwords at different sites by making minor easy to remember modifications to a base password is just too much to ask, right?

2 replies

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September 24, 2009 2:23 PM

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@MostlyHarmless: AT&T's password change tool--the one for the actual Internet--cheerfully displays the new password in plain text in its confirmation. I was quite surprised.

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treimel

September 24, 2009 2:20 PM

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@MostlyHarmless:

At some point, it really is, though. I don't have ten or twenty passwords, I need more than 60--that's alot of modding.

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September 24, 2009 2:21 PM

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Well, they do say it’s possible, not that it’s likely.

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apd09

September 24, 2009 2:24 PM

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I work in the Direct Marketing Industry and am a member of the DMA, unfortunately the DMA Pander file is not a required suppression for mailers. So although you may put your info on it, mailers do not need to adhere to suppression on their mailing according to that file.

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September 24, 2009 2:24 PM

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Does anyone else here get DM from RedPlum? You know, all sorts of local store circulars wrapped up in a RedPlum cover sheet? I've tried to opt-out with them via their website, but the junk mail just keeps on coming. When you try to opt-out via phone, they simply direct you right back to the website. I'm stuck.

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sqlrob

September 24, 2009 3:26 PM

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@summerbee:
Is it addressed directly to you? If so, try Form 1500 at the post office.

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September 24, 2009 4:14 PM

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@sqlrob: Thanks, but...you mean this one?

For \"unwanted sexually oriented advertising\" in my mail? I would have to check a box that says I believe the mailing is \"erotically arousing or sexually provocative\". I do not find local contractors, Kraft Mac & Cheese, or window replacement companies to be erotically arousing.

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September 24, 2009 2:39 PM

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@treimel: Start either using a simple password generation algorithm or a tool like SuperGenPass.

For example: let's say your current primary password is \"cuddles\". Of course, that doesn't have much uniqueness to begin with, so let's do a little hacker 133t work on it and change it to \"C^dd1es\". Isn't that pretty. Easy to remember too. But we aren't done; we don't want to go Sarah Palin and use the same password at all those sites, so we begin to \"salt\" our password with information from the site itself, so it is easy to remember in the future. So let's say we're going to Consumerist to put in our password, we'll take the first three letters of the domain, throw in our password, then complete the domain: \"ConC^dd1essumerist\". Ta-da! a unique password that should be easy to remember.

Using that method you can have MILLIONS of passwords, all different, all will hash different (for the sites that do kinda the right thing ((the \"Good Thing\" is to use salted hashes)), and even if a plain text spills out on the net, it'll take a human to decipher it.

Or you can use SuperGenPass which is all kinds of cool, unless you use an iPhone or some other device whereby you then must remember the awfully long passwords that it will generate.

3 replies

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September 24, 2009 2:47 PM

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@scottboone: Actually, there is no evidence that Palin used the same password everywhere. It just that her password reset questions were incredibly easy, and the answers to which could be found by Googling.

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treimel

September 24, 2009 2:42 PM

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salting with cues from the site itself sounds like a plan--thank you!

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September 24, 2009 2:53 PM

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@treimel: thats what I do. (and kind of what i meant by simple mods)

if I am logging on to gizmodo, i use 42gP@$Sw0rdODO42

That way all my passwords start and end with same numbers, making it harder for someone to get a clue.

Also, the base password, I keep 4 of those. one gets used in banking apps, the other in email and other personal services like, one more in utilities and online logins to meatspace entities, for general purpose use, and the last one for all the recreational stuff - consumerist, disqus, wordpress, and such. There is also a throwaway password I use for one time logins, based off the song that i am listening to recently.

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September 24, 2009 3:30 PM

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@MostlyHarmless: I like \"use the first letters of each word in a line from a song\" method- then I do the whole \"l33t\" and \"customize to a specific site\" nonsense.

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treimel

September 24, 2009 3:12 PM

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@MostlyHarmless:

Yes, that sounds like a reasonbable approach--I'm already using \"base\" passwords in a few categories, but I've not been modding consistently, and it's been frustrating not having an easy-to-remember approach.

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m1k3g

September 24, 2009 2:42 PM

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The DMA, USPS, Yellow Pages, and all the other direct marketers have no real interest in making it easy for anyone to stop receiving junk mail. The USPS is a good case-in-point, they're losing money hand over fist so the more junk mail they get to deliver, the better. They actually encourage junk mail by allowing companies to direct mail to an entire zip code - no addresses needed. If you call your local Post Office to complain, it's like talking to a brick wall. The only half way effective method of stopping some of these companies that I've found is through Catalog Choice dot com. Unfortunately, as fast as you can register these lousy companies, 20 more of them pop up. It's a never ending battle and the little guy (consumers) really don't stand a chance.

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September 29, 2009 5:28 PM

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@m1k3g: It is [catalogchoice.org] .... not .com - the .com is a \"fly paper\" site that is demanding over $100,000 to buy the domain. Don't be fooled by them.

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treimel

September 24, 2009 2:47 PM

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I guess I'm in the minority, but I have to say, junk mail really doesn't bother me. Maybe it's because my mailbox is essentially at my front door, but it never seems to inconvenience me in any way--I recycle it and that's it. To those who find it annoying (and you have every right to your preference--I'm not judging) what's the main irritant? The wastefulness/ecological concern, the time suck? the weight? (if mailbox is distant? I really do wonder.

3 replies

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September 24, 2009 8:37 PM

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@treimel: Anyone remember the guy in the 1970s' who first used junk mail to heat his cabin with a wood stove. He basically made paper logs out of the mail by slurrying the paper, molding it, and then drying the logs out. His attitude was it was free and delivered right to his driveway...

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September 24, 2009 4:20 PM

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@treimel: I have three main irritations:

1. The frequency of the junk mail. If it's a once-per-quarter mailer, it doesn't bother me as much. It's the stuff I get on a weekly (and sometimes daily) basis that gets on my nerves.

2. The fact that I have a mail slot on my apartment door, so it all piles up behind my door. If I go on vacation for a week, I seriously have a hard time opening the door when I get back. The opening of the door usually scatters all of the individual glossy pages from those coupon circulars all over my entryway.

3. The fact that my apartment complex only offers 6 small recycling bins for about 500+ residents; therefore, even if I take the long walk to the bins on the other side of my complex, they're usually overflowing anyway. I can't bear to throw paper into the garbage; I WANT to recycle it, but it's difficult to do so where I live. I would kill for curbside.

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rosvicl

September 24, 2009 2:58 PM

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@treimel: It's both time and money. I don't know how you recycle paper, but I'm required to either tie it up in bundles with twine, or put it in specially-colored recycling bags. Neither of those is free. Sure, it's not a lot of money, but why should I, and millions of other households, be spending any money on this? Also, even those \"not a lot of money\" amounts can add up if a person's budget is tight.

But I have it comparatively easy: I can make those bundles, take them downstairs, and the city deals with it. My girlfriend's nearest paper recycling is a third of a mile away, which means either significantly more time, or using up gas as well as time.

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JeffIowa

September 24, 2009 3:10 PM

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I opted out of pre-approved credit offers about 4 years ago. I average 20 pieces of mail per week, of which 6 are solicitations. All of those are from local vendors, or are addressed to \"household\".

I followed the instructions on the back of a Visa card offer and mailed a request to be taken off the mailing list. Worked like a charm. Usually this information is located on the back of credit card offers, middle of the page, in the small print.

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September 30, 2009 2:21 PM

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@JeffIowa: I did the same thing you did and I still get junk mail from both Capital One and Discover. I've never had a credit card and don't plan on getting one until I can clean up my credit report, but they're still bugging me with their offers.

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jik

September 30, 2009 2:50 PM

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@crunchberries: optoutprescreen.com is for just what it says -- opting out of prescreened credit-card offers, the kind where it says \"You're already approved!\" and in some cases encloses the credit card with the offer. Regular credit-card offers, where you have to apply and be approved, are not opted out. Putting yourself on the DMA MPS will stop some of them, and contacting the individual credit-card vendors taht write to you and asking them to stop will stop the others. It's a lot of work, but there is some satisfaction in knowing that you're helping the environment.

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September 24, 2009 3:24 PM

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Around 2001 I signed up any and every DMA personal name and generic email address I could find for spam email offers and contests. Within a couple of years the DMA was coming out against spam emails. Unknown if this was connected but it made me feel better.

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coren

September 24, 2009 3:29 PM

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Junk mail doesn't bother me too much (other than how wasteful it is) but if they'll let you \"forward\" your address - forward it to say, an address that doesn't exist. Or the dump, or recycling center. Or is that a no no?

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September 24, 2009 6:00 PM

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@coren: I don't think they forward that class of mail, though.

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coren

September 24, 2009 6:57 PM

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@floraposte: Well that would suck - I wonder why they bother allowing change of address at all

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AllanG54

September 24, 2009 3:45 PM

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Stop complaining...the post office is going broke. If it wasn't for all that crap mail being sent it would probably cost 50 cents or more to mail a letter.

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lihtox

September 26, 2009 12:47 AM

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@AllanG54: Maybe the Post Office could start a premium service, like some websites do: ad-free service for an extra $50/year!

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maztec

September 24, 2009 5:59 PM

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@AllanG54: I would rather pay $1.50 per letter, than receive crap mail.

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AngryK9

September 24, 2009 4:17 PM

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@AllanG54: That is why the Post Office has been spending millions of $$ on ad campaigns for flat-rate shipping.

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AngryK9

September 24, 2009 4:17 PM

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I was looking at that site not too long ago and was thinking about \"opting out\". I am certainly glad that I did not do it.

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maztec

September 24, 2009 5:59 PM

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This site is merely a list for redirecting you to lists to request how to opt-out. No, it does not have a quick, easy form on the site for opting out. IT doesn't opt you out from anything as far as I can tell. Instead, you go to the site, and you select to \"manage a category\" credit/catalog/other, and then it takes you to a list of those that you are subsequently told to click - go to the website of - and get details on how to contact them (usually via post mail) and you can then request to be taken off the lists - with a delay of 6 to 9 weeks [at least].

I'm sorry, but I do not see that this site has any purpose other than as a redirector. Perhaps someone should farm all the links off of it and post them up in a free location - free as in you don't have to give away your personally identifying information in consideration to obtain the info?

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jik

September 24, 2009 10:46 PM

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@maztec: You are confused. While you're correct that dmachoice.org does offer links to the Web sites of individual DMA member organizations, there is also functionality for adding oneself to the DMA's MPS list, which (supposedly) tells DMA members they aren't supposed to send you junk mail.

As obnoxious as the DMA is, the MPS list does actually work, at least to some extent. If you are getting a lot of junk mail from companies you've never dealt with, and you add yourself to the MPS list, you *will* reduce the amount of junk mail you receive.

And I say that as the author of the guy who wrote the blog entries linked to in this article, so you can believe it ;-).

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September 24, 2009 7:38 PM

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I wanted to inform Consumerist readers that I discovered something they may want to be aware of: your parents may be getting tons of solicitations in the mail for various charities, which they studiously send money to. My mother in-law is a kind person and falls for the \"poor child, we desperately need your small donation today.\" We discovered this because we are checking her mail while she is on a vacation. When we looked at her check register, we saw many checks for $5.00 and $10.00, etc. Normally this isn't a problem, but she's on a fixed income and lives very frugally. She needs her money to take of herself. The sheer number of solicitations she is receiving is ridiculous! We've seen over 1-2 solicitations each day from different charities! My wife is systematically calling each charity and asking them to remove her from their mailing list.

I suspect this will be an impossible task since it's likely that once she makes a donation, her name and address becomes very valuable and is then sold as a willing donor to other charities. This is the only way I can explain the stunning number of solicitations she is getting. The charities are also giving my wife a difficult time when she asks to have her name removed. You can imagine the charities do not want to remove active donors from their lists! I believe they will not actually remove her name or her name will simply be re-added when her name is sold again.

I advise you to talk to your parents and ask if they are giving money to charity and how often they do this. If they are doing this and they're fine doing it, OK. Then make sure they are keeping track of the money and are at least getting a tax write-off for them. Otherwise, check your parent's mail and start having their address removed from the lists today!

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jik

September 24, 2009 10:49 PM

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@vastrightwing: Most charities will, in fact, remove you from their lists if you ask, although a few of them are stubborn about it. I've been trying for almost two years to get charities and others to stop sending me junk mail. You can read about my efforts at [blog.kamens.brookline.ma.us] (search for \"junk mail\").

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September 24, 2009 8:34 PM

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@vastrightwing: Yes, those organizations actively sell their lists to others like them.

My experience:
I rented a PO box in the town I went to college since I knew I would be moving around during 4 years. I donated $10 once to one organzation like that and then started getting scads of donation solicitations using the \"we send you pretty picture return address label gift to guilt you into donating\" angle. Never donated again but I personally loved getting the labels as I used the labels for free whether or not I gave a darn about the picture. Occasionally I would send the donation form back (without anything being filled in) just to mess with them and maybe have them think I was a senile senior who forgot to put in his check... FREE LABELS!

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September 24, 2009 8:53 PM

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A junk mail story:

In the pre-interwebz days, I transfered from an urban area college in NJ to a rural college in the Southeastern US. At the end of the summer before starting at my new college, I took the time to sign up one of my more nerdish, city-raised, former roommates for every free rototiller, soil turner, tree stump grinder, and bush hogger info package I could find. And this guy would never have a green thumb either for plants. It helped also that he had an odd name too so it would be apparent that it was spelled correctly when people who didn't know usually spelled it wrong.

I raided the Old Farmer's Almanac and think I remember even sending brief letters asking for info in his name. I had all of these sent to the dorm mail box which each of the 4 people in that apartment could get.

I went back to visit (and consume alcoholic beverages) at the college on Christmas break and told one of the cool roommates what I had done. He fell over laughing as he said each time he got a rototiller/etc catalog came to the mailbox, he would give it to the nerd roommate who was bewildered on why he was signed up for these farm equipment mailings to an urban college dorm.

When the cool roommate and I got back to the dorm later that evening the nerd roommate was still awake so I drunkenly asked him \"How are you doing in the the garden with your new rototiller?\" at which I got the \"You SOB! I'll kill you!\" as he jumped up and jokingly tried to wrestle me. He did say he thought it was funny too when he learned that it was my joke on him...

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Pixelantes Anonymous

September 25, 2009 12:55 AM

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This was news...in 1999.

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lihtox

September 26, 2009 12:53 AM

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I wonder if one could come up with a sizable grassroots movement to boycott the most egregious direct-mail advertisers and charities, and whatnot. Rather than a blanket boycott (which may be simply impossible), give out an \"award\" every month for the worst advertisers and direct-mail charities in terms of volume, dishonesty, or whatever else, and have people commit to boycotting that particular company for the month. Get some publicity and enough people to sign the boycott pledge, and we might even affect companies' behavior.

(I like the temporary boycott because it gives companies incentive to change, and it's less of a burden on people: it's easier to avoid a company for a month than forever.)

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P_Smith

September 28, 2009 6:10 PM

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Easy solution:

On every addressed or unaddressed junk mail you receive, remove your name and send it to the DMA \"Receiver pays\" by DHL or COD through the USPS. The more it costs them to deal with it, the more it hurts them.

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jik

September 29, 2009 3:34 AM

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Wow, that's a lot of words from the DMA to say pretty much nothing at all!

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September 29, 2009 5:26 PM

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Catalog Choice is the consumer-drivenm, non-profit solution to the issue of unwanted mail. We sign license agreements with merchants that obligate them to honor opt-out choices. The system is not perfect, but it is the best we all have without legislation. The more consumers using our non-profit service, the louder our voice is with the mailing community. Check it out at [catalogchoice.org.]

Best, Chuck

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January 24, 2010 8:50 PM

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Chris is right. DMA is a fraud. I moved in September and tried registering my new address. They sent me the activation email and when I followed the link I got an error message that read: \" invalid field value for member ID\". So I tried the link they provided in case you have trouble. I filled out the form and the \"submit\" button is DEAD as a doornail. You call the phone number in NY and can't get to a human. I don't believe anyone is there.
I continue to be bombarded with junk so I tried again tonight and the very same thing happened! This website is a complete scam. If this organization even exists (and I will find out because I'm going to the address the published, which is only a few minutes from my home) they are definitely on the side of the mailers. I'd be interested to know, since they claim to be a non-profit, who is funding them, and whether they've been hoodwinked as well. I'm angry and disgusted. It should not be this hard to protect my rights. As soon as I get a free moment I'll be showing up on their doorstep.

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