My first thought was if the guy was a true Jedi and not a Star Wars geek living in his mother's basement, he'd use his Jedi skills and trick the store clerk to letting him pass.

Since he is the founder of the Jedis, I say that he is a false prophet. If he can't perform a simple basic Jedi mind trick, then he is no true Jedi.

Everyone who sees the guy on the street should point at him and exclaim: "You lie!" :-)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what the teachings of Christianity (among other faiths) encourage? For example, do they not teach their followers to control the overwhelming desire to procreate with multiple partners (i.e. abstinence and monogamy)? How about staying your hand when the urge to commit a violent act strikes, when all you'd really like to do is smack the crap out of someone? Or learning NOT to covet the property of others but, instead, to be glad for their good fortune when jealousy rears its ugly head? These are all examples of fighting your most basic of instincts in order to be a better person, and some of them *do* overlap with the religion you lot are currently belittling.

The wrapping paper may be different, but the stuff inside the box is awfully similar, if not identical, in nature. More food for thought.

Scientology is presented as truth. They are scum, but at least it is based on a mad man's idea of reality (or a con man's...), but George Lucas never presented Jedi as such.

If I'm wrong and George Lucas is a Jedi and says otherwise, my post is meaningless.

@SpruceStreetPhil:
Actually when it comes to religion it is either none or all. You cannot pick and choose to say which one is real when they all have the exact same level of evidence.

You either have to accept every religion anyone creates is real or accept that no religion is real.

Cheers.

@Amy Alkon: Sometimes the best thing to prove you are serious and it's not a fad or a way to take advantage of something, is to let a little time pass. Often the standard for determining if a religious belief requires accomodation is if it is a long held and sincere belief. A one year old religion hasn't proven it's going to make it very far.

@Kogenta:
There is no such thing as a certified religion, but I will say that this religion has just as much proof as any religion does in being real.

Also, in Star Wars it was obvious that Jedis did not have to wear their hoods all the time.

@TheBovaEffect: HA Thats awesome! !++

OK, if Peter Griffin can have the Church of the Fonz, we can certainly have the Church of the Jedi.

@SpruceStreetPhil: like jesus will come and heal the world today, I dare him.

@Saboth:

How is a book better than a movie?

Duh. The book is always better than the movie...

@utensil42: Is the US the standard in regonizing religion? I doubt the guys in WACO would agree.

@SpruceStreetPhil: haahaha

OK in 1000-2000 years we can take these jedi serious but not now? So 1000-2000 years ago when your religion started you would not have taken IT seriously? WOW you're a hypocrite.

So, in ~50 years Jedism will be a legitimate religion, since it's "creators" will be dead and unable to say whether or not the movies were real?

And, please, I really do hope that the UK recognizes a lack of religion as a recognized choice of "religion". Otherwise we're talking about some serious dark ages there...

Uber nerds.

I'd say...just because something is old doesn't make it better. Otherwise we'd still think the universe spins around the earth, and the Earth is flat, etc.

You can base a religion of anything you want. We base ours on a mythological book. How is a book better than a movie? The principals hold the same.

Nothing in there about recognizing a religion, just establishing or prohibiting the free exercise. Big difference.

@Herbz: We can actually find the people who were invovled in the movie and they would tell us....we made it up.

the book, not so much.

As such, whether or not the Bible is an actual portrayal of real events or not, its believers believe that it is. Those that believe Star Wars portrays actual historical events (when the writer of those events is still alive and totally honest about the fact that it's a complete work of fiction) seem a little less valid for that reason.

It would be like making a religion based off of Marvel comics, or Finding Nemo. Both are works of fiction that make no claim to having a basis in reality, whose creators can and readily would claim their works as fiction.

I just love the underlying implication -- that there's more validity to really silly unproven stuff from a long, long time ago than much more recent really silly unproven stuff.

Now if the lady in question was wearing a burka, I could see that being a parallel argument.

@shepd: Anger troll likes anger.

Mehh, that sounds like something George Lucas would squeeze in to make more money.

"All Jedi are prompted to purchase the Force FX lightsaber this will be used in your training and performance in any tournaments and conventions," He so made that one up.

And while the article says he founded the "International Church of Jediism", as far as I can tell there is no such organization. And while 500,000 people may have claimed to be jedi on their census, I am sure only a small fraction of those people have ever heard of this guy.

While he wants his congregation to wear a hood in public place to symbolize faith, not only does it not symbolize faith since no one knows about it, but the one place which I can ascertain as a nexus of the many different ministries seems to say you can hide your jediism for all they care.

Frankly, its just some 23 year old guy riding the bandwagon of the church and wanting attention.

Also, heres a bonus, the secret Jedi sign for the UK church:

"When Jediism members meet always shake hands and smile, on departure from any meetings or social interactions a member muss solute with the right hand, 2 fingers together (Index & Middle) flick off from the eye brow and part the to fingers as your hand moves downwards. This will show you are a member of the faith and hanve an understanding of our internal literature and techniques."

I am frankly speechless.

If you're going to make up a dumbass religion based on a movie, AT LEAST GET THE FUCKING TENETS RIGHT.

I'm sort of interested in how this hood rule came into place in the church of Jedi though. Certainly none of the books, movies or other cannon material has ever seemed to support this novel idea. In fact, Jedi generally fling off the cloaks entirely when they enter combat against dozens of troopers, they certainly don't seem to be worried about keeping their hoods up while they fight in public spaces where large number of people are watching/fighting.

@SpruceStreetPhil:

Do they truly believe to have Jedi powers? I doubt it. The point of the Jedi religion is probably to imitate the lifestyle and values of the Jedi - the Jedi code of living, if you will. That is not all that much different from what the followers of most other organized religions are doing - for instance, Christianity teaches that man was created in God's image. Thus, you strive to be as close to that image by following the values set forth by The Bible.

I'm not a religious person, but I would prefer the Jedi religion to any of the major organized religions any day. At least no one has yet to die in the name of The Force.

That's sort of the whole lynch pin to this whole thing. Has the UK Church of Jedi achieved such a status where claims of religious discrimination can actually hold up in court? And then, what exactly is that bar? Is it number of people who partake in the religion? Tax-exempt status? A combination of the two? The number of politicians that the religious organization can pay off to make them official?

I asked a psychiatrist once what the clinical difference was between a religious belief that God will take you to heaven one day, and a delusion that aliens will take you to their ship one day.
He said "They are basically the same, except so many people believe the first that it is accepted as a norm. As long as it does not pose a threat to themselves or others, or impair their daily functioning, it doesn't really matter clinically"

I suspect a more likely explanation is that a male in a Jedi outfit, with hood up, appears to people to be a bit more sinister. In part this is because they don't attribute it to a religion they know (Christian monks that do have hooded garments can take down the hood).

I did meet a man once who wore a hood to cover a head injury that would likely offend or disgust people.

Don't start planning a Fresh & Easy Jedi show of solidarity folks. Obviously the leader of the Jedi church has fallen to the dark side.

In the church of Jedi, can you kill your daughter if she was raped?

I'm going to go and hide for a few weeks, just to be safe.

@Kogenta: I've been asked to remove a (non-Jedi) hood in store before-I think it's so security cameras can get a good shot of your face in case you try anything illegal.

I am a practicing nudist. I worship naked bodies. I should be allowed to practice my religion when-ever and where-ever I so desire.

Wrong?

Then nobody else can either.

If he really was a jedi of any worth. The jedi mind trick should have worked. "this is the dress code you're looking for"

If he can pass a Midi-chlorians blood test, let him wear the robe. Anything less than 5,000 not be accepted.

@dragonfire81: Yes, he did. I don't have my book in front of me, but the Jedi seem to be a blend of Eastern and a few Western religious tenets. It's really fascinating stuff, from a philosophical standpoint. F'rinstance, the Jedi Knights are said to be loosely based on Shaolin monks.

(If anyone's curious, "Star Wars and Philosophy" and "The Dharma of Star Wars" go into it quite a bit. Interesting stuff.)

@SpruceStreetPhil:

"Also may I mention here that its all FAKE."

Right. Because all the stuff that was stolen from other pre-existing religions to put in the Bible totally happened that way.

@Quasigizmodo: Here Here!!! I also demand all Christians prove they are real Christians by documenting their unwavering adherence to the ten commandments and their baptism.

I feel so bad now.

@SpruceStreetPhil: Actually most Jedi don't force choke anyone. That's the Sith who do that.

Second, the US Government, by way of the military and the IRS, often makes decisions regarding the legal status of religions. Congress has nothing to do with it.

Third, the National Statistics Office (UK), which gave Jedi an official code (896) after it was written in by about 1% of the population, does not recognize Jedi or any other religion.

Fourth, "Heathen" and "Atheist" each also have census codes in the UK, 897 and 898 respectively. So, if Jedi is a legally recognized religion on the basis of having a census code, Heathen and Atheist must be as well.

You are aware there are no "recognized" religions in America right? Yes, in a sense, the IRS does play the approval card when it comes to whether or not a religious organization is non-profit, and therefore, tax-exempt, but they never get involved in saying whether or not the religion in general is "recognized". As long as your religious beliefs are sincere, and theres no evidence this guys aren't, its accepted that any discrimination against him based on said beliefs could be construed as discrimination.

I said "yes", if and only if Jedi is a recognized religion in the UK. The reason Jedi's legal status matters to this discussion is because otherwise it is not analogous to the A&F case. Islam is a legally recognized religion, therefore no one can legally discriminate against a Muslim on the grounds of their religion. If Islam were not a legally recognized religion, then that woman would have had no legal expectation to not be discriminated against on the basis of her religion.

As I said above, this has nothing to do with my personal religious beliefs or who I believe should or should not be discriminated against or why. For me, it's a straight up legal argument. If your religion is not legally recognized in the nation or state in which you live, you cannot have an expectation of equality under the law. I do not know for a fact where Jedi is or is not recognized, so cannot say whether it is protected under UK laws. I don't know why this is so hard for some to understand.

Although they make several good points regarding self-improvement as one of their core teachings, when I point out to them the act of calling it a "religion" and "church", it goes against my Christian beliefs, they bring out the dictionary and start defining religion as you did in your above post.

When they do this, it sounds like they are trying to backpedal their own beliefs by making it sound like something it is not.

The U.K. is known for having CCD (video camera's for you yanks) devices everywhere you look. I would not doubt Tesco is concerned that there could be some some shoplifting incidents with people wearing hoods that would prevent them from being identified for prosecution.

Note to Jedi: I do not agree with Tesco. Only pointing out an alternative explanation. Please don't come to my house and cut me down with your lightsaber.

And from what I can tell about the Jedi religion is that they aren't claiming to be able to use Jedi force magic, they're just people who follow the sort of teachings you would expect from the Jedi. The fact that they united around a fictional story hardly means anything. There's really no proof that Jesus wasn't just a story that Christians used to spread their religion. I've heard people say the same thing about Buddha as well.

I really would like someone to make an argument that the Jedi religion isn't just as valid as say Christianity without invoking the following:

1) Christianity is older and has lot of followers
2) Jedi is based on a movie written by a man (the bible was written by men, many (most? all?) other holy texts were written by men)
3) It's silly to think that one can control something with his mind (isn't it just as silly to think that if you "pray" something will come of it?)
4) People don't really believe in it (Oh really, prove it)

I would love to hear from a --insert any religious follower here-- why the writings of a --insert any occupation here-- are worth believing. All religion is inherently unproven; it's all based on faith.

That spokesman is chocked full of win.

@SpruceStreetPhil: Actually, if you look at the philosophical side of it, many (if not most) beliefs of the Jedi mirror those of Eastern religions. So, while this bunch may seem on the surface to think it's cool to want to be like those who move things with their minds, could they possibly be drawn because of the core beliefs?

Food for thought, here.

Scientology is a religion.

Is it a particularly good religion? NO, not in my opionion.

Per "Religion as a Cultural System", 1973 by Clifford Geertz:

"A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power, God or gods, or ultimate truth."

The argument whether or not a particular religion is good or bad has no hold here. Even if a religion is "bad", it does not make it any less of a religion.

"I don't want this to devolve into a "religion flamewar"

speaking of hypocrites lol...

Now for a name... Church of The Tiny Dog? Church of the Pergo Floors? Hmmmmm. Church of Tax Exempt Status. I like that one. Simple and to the point.

All I'm pointing out is that it's not quite the same situation as the Muslim woman in the A&F case because Islam is a recognized religion and thus you cannot legally discriminate against someone based on their being Muslim. Because Jedi has no legal standing as a religion, it is not legally afforded those same protections.

I say put the burden of proof on him. Let him prove he's a REAL Jedi, and THEN he can complain about discrimination. Just draw some blood for a midichlorian count or something.

Besides, even if there are only two "officially-designated" Sith, that can be a bunch of dark Jedi. Kind of like how there's only one pope and a bunch of priests (Note - I am not comparing the pope to a Sith lord).

Don't take this as an "anti-religion" post; it's surely not. I just find the concept of organized religion to be fundamentally flawed. People are arguing the minute details of the same exact point. It's possible to be plenty "spiritual," like myself, without getting caught up in all the hype over which book/movie/general idea is "less right" than the others.

Plus the Sith encompasses more than just fallen Jedi, it includes their whole support structure such as Sith troopers, Sith assassins, Sith warriors, etc.

In any case, I wonder how far Tesco will take this, their spokesperson does say in the article:
"If Jedi walk around our stores with their hoods on, they'll miss lots of special offers."

And honestly, I can't really see any real reason to eject someone over that, religion or no religion unless Tesco stores are seeing a wave of crime from people wearing brown hoods in their stores.

Jedi might not be officially recognized in the UK, but would you say a religion with more than half the number of followers of Hinduism shouldn't be official? Or how about 1/4 of the followers of Islam? Because that's how many people identify as Jedi in the UK.

If this were New Zealand, Jedi would beat out both Buddhism and Hinduism for its number of followers!

[en.wikipedia.org]

And no, I'm not playing Devil's Advocate. It pisses me off that just because a religion is new it's assumed fair game for discrimination, despite that in some places it has a bigger following than other major "recognized" worldwide religions.

Oh it's Ireland, I guess we fist fight for it.

Voids your entire argument.

Also, just because you're Christian doesn't mean others cannot follow some belief system or that we should call all belief systems fake, but that doesn't mean we should recognize every fool's idea of an old and established religion as a religion either. See what I did there? You should be more tolerant to others who don't believe in the same things as you do.

But is the Jedi Church a church for Jedi, or is it a church for people who like to imitate the Jedi but have no actual force powers themselves? Because you'd think in a universe where Jedi and their allies are being ruthlessly hunted down in a shoot first ask questions later fashion, they might want to be a little more inconspicuous.

"Century old religions" were once cults as well. Just because they are older does not make them any better.

I don't want this to devolve into a "religion flamewar", and I personally don't approve of any organized religion, especially ones like Scientology, but just because its based off a movie doesn't make it any less of a religion.

Like SpruceStreetPhil says, Islam is based off a REALLY OLD book.

In 500 years, Jedism will be based off a REALLY OLD movie.

I suppose, like a fine wine, we just need to wait for it to mature, is that the difference between a cult and a religion?

Or is the difference that a cult does horrible things to those who try to leave or those who try to disparage it? Because that's what I was always taught. I'm pretty sure if you laugh at the Jedi they aren't going to produce false evidence that you're a child molester, you know, unlike the "Church" of Scientology.

And Islam is based off a book...

Your point is?

Jesus, even George Lucas thinks these people are crazy.

Anything less would be rather hypocritical. The Jedi are a recognized religion in some places.

When you follow Jedi and die, where do you go, Skywalker Ranch?