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Bally - \"Total Scam\"
1 replies
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@vastrightwing: I've yet to find a nationwide gym chain that isn't a total scam. Trying to get membership pricing information at Gold's is like trying to buy a used car.
Bally - \"Total Scam\"
@vastrightwing: I've yet to find a nationwide gym chain that isn't a total scam. Trying to get membership pricing information at Gold's is like trying to buy a used car.
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That is the worst form of entrapment I have seen. The letters from car dealerships that appear to come from a law office can be thrown away once you open them, but this one really is sneaky. The past due amount clearly implies that you have an outstanding debt to them. Wow...hope something is done about this.
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Wow. That is some Grade A BS. Definitely warrants a complaint to the FTC. You cannot label a \"solicitation\" as a past due invoice.
@rhys1882: Mail fraud complaints should go to the US Postal Inspectors.
They even have a listing for false invoices on their drop-down menu of fraud options.
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@hansn: Yes. Postal inspectors! Woe be to anyone who attempts to cross those guys. Seriously. They don't mess around.
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@rhys1882: Might also be worth a report to the California Attorney General's office--I'd certainly do that here in Illinois if I got one, as they're pretty active.
@floraposte: Oh, sorry, he's in PA. I'd therefore report it to the PA Attorney General just because, but they're not one of the state AGs reputed to take action, unfortunately.
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@floraposte: Might be worth telling California too, as it appears Bally is headquartered there, and the mailing may have originated there.
@Alex Chasick: Agreed. My reporting policy on this would be \"the more, the merrier.\" I would be quite surprised if this passed legal muster.
@floraposte: And what the hell, in case somebody's looking--
The consumer complaint page for the California AG:
The consumer complaint page for the Pennsylvania AG:
@floraposte: Not to mention that California certainly needs the money that would come from slapping down a fine on this company.
@floraposte: dude, nice job to somebody at the PA AG's office for snagging the sweet \"attorneygeneral.gov\" domain name! Not even the US attorney general ( [www.usdoj.gov] ) has an address that cool.
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@floraposte: My wife canceled her account with Bally's a few months ago. I really hope she didn't fall for this scam and just not tell me (thinking she was just tyeing up lose ends).
I just forwarded the article to her. (crosses fingers)
That is truly underhanded. I wonder if there's some way Bally can get in legal trouble for something so grossly misrepresented like that? The article mentions the FTC, but I'm not sure if they'd have any interest in actually pursuing it.
FWIW that copy on the back about credit reporting is federally required. My guess is that they use the same paper stock for the legitimate past-due collections and for the fraudulent scam ones as well.
this has gotta be illegal.. I don't see any mention anywhere of it being an offer/solicitation for membership re-enrollment or renewal.. gym memberships are always so shady. I'm sure they've tricked quite a few people with this \"marketing\"
@junip: I read the thing a few times over to find the tiny phrase that said it was not a real bill but in fact a re-enrollment offer but I could not find one.
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I tried to make sense of that explanation from the Bally's rep, but it just made my head asplode.
I'd fill it out and send it back stuff with monopoly money.
Better yet, in 20-30 minutes you could easilysocially engineer the name and address of a Bally Marketing VP then 'sign' them up !
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@matthorn: Better yet, mail back the envelope (if it's postage paid by the company) with a bunch of FREE COUPONS from the stupid ValuPak people. About 3 pounds of them.
OMG, that is one of the most horrible scams I have ever seen. I thought Fitness First was a bad gym when they tried to add an annual fee to members still under contract, but Bally takes the prize.
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Wow, your states Attorney General would love to get their hands on that letter.
I joined Bally's right out of college in 1992 and signed up for one of those rip-off 3 year autodebit payment plans. I only went for about 3-4 months but still paid for it all that time. (That's what they count on you doing so they can make all that money off of you.)
Somehow they managed to follow me through several address changes and started sending me renewal notices after the original membership expired. In 2000 I rejoined for one year for a flat rate of about $100 for the year which was a good deal and I started going again regularly but then stopped when I got a better deal at the gym at work. Still, every 3-4 months I get another renewal notice from them. It's gotten to the point where if I see a letter from them, which i can identify by the return address in Norwalk, that it goes right into the shredder.
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Wouldn't this be considered mail fraud?
Time to call the postal inspector!
File a complaint.
If that is not a bill, it is the most misleading soliciation I have ever seen.
Maybe A few large fines can finally drive them out of business.
This is why you should go to Average Joe's, where you're perfect just the way you are.
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@TheWillow: Running is only one part of fitness, I hope you're doing some caveman training for your weight lifting portion.
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I received this letter as well. I have two accounts with them. One was an old account that I was doing a ridiculously expensive month to month plan on that I cancelled. The second is my current year plan that was payed for by my employer. When I forgot my card they looked up my name and I guess admitted me under the wrong account. A few days later I received this exact letter in the mail. Not nearly as alarming as I'm sure this one was since it seemingly came out of nowhere, but a surprise $1,500 bill is never fun.
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This happened to me!!!
My contract with them expired in March, and starting in April I'd get these. I was concerned and called, and was assured these were \"courtesy renewal\" letters and not bills, and so I asked for them to stop. The next month another came, showing not only the \"current month dues\" but also last month's with a late fee and warning about the credit agency thing.
What stopped it was a neatly typed letter sent to their corporate office with a photocopy of the original contract I signed. I highlighted the parts on the contract that said as soon as the contract was over, I was under no obligation to pay any more. I reminded them of this and demanded to be removed from any and all correspondence with them. I then sent the letter via certified mail with delivery confirmation and haven't heard anything since, and it's been 4 or 5 months.
Sad that we have to do this, because I don't take their word for it that it isn't a real bill as they blatantly lied to me when I signed the original contract, anyway. But by having some proof that I followed the contract to the bill in terms of ending the relationship, I feel like I have some kind of legal defense if something ever happens with my credit.
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Wow, how is that even legal? They don't even mention anywhere on the statement that this is for rejoining. Bally's needs to disapear fast.
Bally has long had one of the most unsavory reputations of any gym chain, but this latest fake past-due notice to a former member takes the cake!
Consumerist readers: if you ever hear of a friend or relative looking to join a gym, advise them to run -- not walk -- away from any Bally's.
Here in NYC, I've been more than satisfied with the New York Sports Club, and I assume that their affiliates in other cities work in an above-board fashion as well.
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@jpdanzig:
Perhaps that is their plan to get America in shape if enough people run away from Ballys, then we will improve their cardiovascular conditioning.
@jpdanzig: I love NYSC, I have been a member off and on for almost 10 years. I love the cleanliness, the amount of machines, the large network of gyms (especially the fact that I can workout in Philly, Boston and DC and not pay extra) and the personal tv's at each cardio station. Yeah if you are in NYC you can join Equinox and Crunch but I feel they are too overpriced for what you get. NYSC all the way.
I hate Ballys. I signed up for the 3 year plan in 1998. It was paid off by 2001, and I was charged like $10 a month after that. I then moved to the boondocks which had no Ballys so I went into the \"inactive\" status. I subsequently moved back to an area with a Bally's, turned it back \"active\", went to the gym for something like a month, then got a job where I never have time to get to the gym, so I called to cancel. After going through their ridiculous phone system, which never gives you an option of actually speaking to someone, I finally got someone on the phone, told him I wanted to cancel, and he talked me into putting it into \"suspended\" status for $48 a year. If I ever wanted to activate it again, I would just pay the difference between the $48 and what I should have paid all those months. (I thought I might go back to the gym at some point, so why pay to get a brand new membership?) After a year of that I never felt the need to get to a ballys so I didn't want to waste my $48. I called Ballys and this time could never get through to speak with someone to cancel the account fully. I sent them emails and a letter asking them to cancel my account. I have never received a response acknowledging anything or saying the account has been cancelled. I keep getting these bills saying I need to pay $180+ to make sure my account does not expire. WTF.
the first paragraph mentions that in an effort to \"go green\" they can automatically \"update\" your membership using your credit card without a written notice. is this a nice way of saying they can raise your dues without having to notify you? while hiding behind the pretense of going green?
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@craptastico: there's also fine print on the back that says
\"Additionally, you are authorizing us to increase our charges/withdrawals for monthly dues and taxes in accordance with your Contract. You understand that you are entitled to notices of all varying charges/withdrawals and you waive the right to receive prior notice for increased charges/withdrawls made in accordance with your Contract.\"
This should ABSOLUTELY be illegal. I would definitely contact the FTC about this! They have been cracking down on these sort of scams, and I have a feeling they will be very interested in this case. Whoever came up with this idea at Bally's is a complete moron.
This is unfair and deceptive within the meaning of California's Business & Professions Code section 17200, et seq. Jordan should also notify the CA AG's office... they've been on a lawsuit kick lately.
Come on people, when are you going to realize that the zip+4 is just about as good as giving out your exact address? If you're going to black it out, black it out right.
Hmmm, could this person possibly live on the 200 block of East Mount Pleasant Ave in Philadelphia?
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@RoosterCockburn: I guess anything is really available online, but it's kind of a jerk move to go to the trouble of looking it up and then posting it here. They obviously blocked out their information because they didn't want their home address given away. Somehow you still felt the need to post it for them?
You could have just made a comment about how they should have blocked out the zip+4 as well. That would have been just as effective and not nearly as douchey.
This seems to be an attempt to defraud. I smell a class-action lawsuit.
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I wish being part of the \"lay public\" were as much fun as it sounds like.
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Yeah you lost me at \"Bally\".
That's all I need to know to want to avoid whatever it is.
This happened to me too last spring. My wife signed both of us and a friend up on a month to month deal, we eventually stopped going. The bill was the same, two payment cycles occurring after the last time any of us had set foot in the establishment. Not fun, having to waste your time calling customer service and being threatened with collections.
God, I hate Bally's. I actually got out of my 3-year contract with them but it took many phone calls to corporate and a few fillings with the BBB.
This is completely, totally, illegal. They have sent was is definitely a properly formatted bill that is not set up as a solicitation of any kind. It contains some of the required legal language that appears on an attempt to collect a debt. Part of the amount requested is marked \"Past Due\", and the back of the bill says that Past Due amounts will be reported.
If I was the OP, I would notify the FTC (and they never do anything useful), so also notify the AG of the state the OP resides in. (They are a bit more useful.)
@sirwired: And sue to force Bally's to change it's name to \"Ballsy\".
I'll get my coat, where's the door?
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Yes, that's exactly what mail fraud looks like.
It's known as a solicitation in the guise of an invoice. (This doesn't even seem very guise-y.)
There's a really easy process to submit a claim online at the FTC.gov site:
[www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov]
(I've used it before and it does get results but it helps if more than one person sends in their complaint.)
I see one place that may have an indication that this is for a renewed membership. There is a sentence on the back that states you need to call for a new membership ID. but other than that, there is nothing on it that states you are renewing an old membership to start up fresh. This should go to the post office inspector as well.
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That is just so, so wrong. I hope the OP pursues this with the appropriate regulatory agency. Bally should not be able to get away with this.
I got something like this in the mail once, not from Ballys, but it was the same ploy. \"Past Due\" on it, and whatnot. After reading it, I was like \"hmmm that seems kind of illegal. They aren't representing themselves in an accurate light.\".
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I've seen stuff like this before, strangely the source of it was non other than Better Homes and Gardens magazine. My mother had a subscription to their rag, and no longer read it, so she did a change of address to my house.
What followed was an absolute deluge of junk mail and fake 'official' letters. I was amazed. FHA -Federal HOMES Authority, and Department of Consumer Trust to name a few. I used to get about 6 pieces of junk mail per week. After that I was getting at least twice that per day. Every day.
It was also quite clear that these letters were designed to confuse old folks.
Watch out for your parents. Please! They wouldn't be sending out this garbage if it didn't suck people in.
You can send this to various AG offices, but you should also file a complaint with the Post Master General for mail fraud.
I guess such thoughts as \"mail fraud\" didn't occur to them. You stay classy Ballys
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Jordan (OP): This is the dictionary definition of mail fraud. Contact the postmaster general at once to have the responsible executive at Bally Total Sickness investigated and arrested. Also report them to the Attorney General of your state and ask them to investigate for fraud. Also report them to the Illinois Attorney General's office demanding action as they are headquartered there:
Bally Total Fitness Corporation
8700 West Bryn Mawr Avenue
Chicago, IL 60631
(773) 380-3000
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If they sent that to thousands of members it might even be racketeering and mail fraud.
Yes, Bally's, you've actually crossed the line into potential criminal charges.
OP, contact your state attorney general's office.
It is my theory that magazines do the same thing. Unfortunately, I've got a few mags for life since they've sent me several past due notices which turned out to be renewals in disguise.
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If corporations are people, there should be a death penalty.
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Dear Bally's,
I would like the offer my services in your Marketing Department. I promise to do a better job than your current staff - a.k.a. I'll make sure you don't make the front page of a leading consumer advocate blog.
Let me know!
Sincerely,
Kevin
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I'm not defending Bally's here, not in the least. I posted a while back about being on the receiving end of dozens of horror stories about them 20 years ago!
What I believe is that this is in fact a genuine collections notice, and that adverse credit reporting is likely to follow if action isn't taken.
In other words, I doubt Bally's is quite so incompetent as to send out fake collection notices which almost certainly would have them sued for every penny they've ever taken in times ten, but rather two other activities which come very close or cross the line into actual fraud:
1) The OP says he canceled, and he probably did, or at least did as much as humanly possible to cancel from that hellhole of a company. However the CSR he was lucky to contact in the first place either didn't properly enter the cancellation information, or somewhere in the process it got garbled, so according to the account department, the OP is still an active member and is behind on his dues.
2) Evidently this is a common enough occurrence, and there's a lack of adequate training in this among their CSRs, so that a notation in their file that they have canceled is not equivalent to to having properly terminated the membership.
This, again, does not put any blame on the OP, nor does it absolve Bally's of responsibility. I just believe it means that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, and the OP is likely to find his credit dinged unless he happens to find a way to get them to realize their error and drop the billing and properly close the account.
Calling the number on the bill, 866-402-2559 and explaining the situation would be a good start. And yes, Bally's needs their corporate asses handed to them via the AG, the BBB, and the FTC anyway as their practices are criminally deceptive. But I would advise strongly against regarding that letter as a phony outright.
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People, stop joining gyms for a monthly fee. What I did, and almost any gym will do so, is pay for a 6 month membership in cash, paid in advance, no renewal. Yes the fee is a bit higher to pay in advance, but it is worth it since you are not locked into a contract.
@SadSam: The YWCA in Minneapolis actually offers a small discount for paying 6 months or a year up front. If I knew I was going to use the gym for a year, it would be a great deal. No contract, no bills, plus discount.
Oh, Bally, will you ever learn?
Imagine the horror a Bally/Cash4Gold union would wreak.
Your AGO should be interested, as should the USPostal Inspection Service.
Bally's used to send similar invoices to me years ago after I had quit. I couldn't get the notices to stop until I filed a stop mail order against them. Finally, it stopped, but it took years of trying everything else to get them off my back.
Bally's is a lot like AOL. I'm surprised they're still in business.
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Bally's is always trying to pull crap like this. It's time for them to go out of business.
@I_have_something_to_say: Bally's is a fucking scam. Plain and simple. I tried to cancel a membership (because the salesman was dishonest) within the 30 days allowed and it was virtually impossible. They even called me to confirm that they got my request for cancellation but they kept charging me anyways. It's a long story but I was never able to cancel so I just kept going there until my contract was up. I'm kind of ashamed to admit that.
@I_have_something_to_say: I don't think it's \"mail\" fraud as much as it just plain, ol' fashioned fraud. I mean, like crymson777 said, it's stealing. Plain and simple it is defrauding people of money by making them believe they owe money they do not. After reading the \"bill,\" I didn't see ANYTHING that states or even implies that this is a \"membership reinstatement notice.\" So, yep, basically theft.
@I_have_something_to_say: Isn't this mail fraud? It says that there is an amount due and that's not actually the case.
@I_have_something_to_say:
I agree 100%. I will never step foot in a Bally's now