My Xbox 360 finally went out for the last time in May. I was within the extended warrenty of the red ring of death issue. But didn't call in until June, unware of the time expiring. I got customer service and they wanted me to pay $100 to get it repaired. And I had just received my third refurbished XBOX 360 from them the month before it went out. I couldn't believe it. Nothing they could do about it. I told them I wouldn't be an XBOX 360 customer anymore then,as since 100% of the people I've known personally with the system have had system failures, I was practically 100% guarenteed that the system I paid for again would fail. I asked them if they had any assurances I wouldn't have problems in the future with the crappy system. I mean I loved the system, used it all the time (opps my fault for overuseing it) but a system that has such a huge huge huge fail rate cannot be accepted.

Anyway I get online on my computer to play a Windows LIVE game a month ago, in July and it says I cannot play it because my LIVE GOLD subscription is expired. And I had to ask them why I couldn't play a computer game because of my XBOX 360 account gold account which I didn't renew, which I informed them of on two different occasions on the phone, and by replying to one of their notices to renew that I wasn't going to renew it because I don't have a working system anymore.

XBOX 360 I loved you. But in the end you are an utter failure. Your features are great, but you're a piece of manufactured crap.

And it gets annoying when people constantly complain about Live's yearly cost. It's $50 a YEAR people. Considerably less than the price of WOW for a year.

@lostalaska:

My launch console got the RROD this summer, a little over 3 and 1/2 years after launch. So the RROD was no longer covered. Nevertheless, the repair cost around 70 euros, which from my perspective isn't that much. The other option was buying a new (Xbox 360) console, which would have cost more, although you would have got a new 3 year warranty (perhaps enough to last until the new console generation), and most likely better build quality. The repaired console (they don't give you the same back, so its a completely different (repaired) one) has a 12 month guarantee. Plus, I got a short subscription to Xbox Live Gold...

I don't really see the point of changing consoles... I have lots of games that I've bought for the XBox and I like the games more than the ones I've tried on PS3 (or seen on the Wii). And I like the interface and Xbox live more than their counterparts on the PS3. I have been planning on getting a Blu-Ray player, though. (The money isn't the main issue for me. Fun is.)

Not giving Microsoft any props here...If I can't fix my broken xbox (launch system) I'm not buying a new one. What a piece of crap, I'd like to blame Microsoft but let's face the fact that FOXCONN made it.

@GuinevereRucker:

I think many could be suprised by this. It's not like it was their goal to release a potentially faulty product but I guess rushing it out before the playstation 3 could be released ensured them that second place after nintendo's kick butt reign.

Ya you don't need the clothing but common its FAKE CLOTHES on your FAKE person on xbox.

Don't even get me started on xbox's hard drives I just hope mine doesn't die before I upgrade my computer.

$59.99 + tax in Canada

Well with Steam for the pc you can buy a lot of the XBLA games like Braid. They also sell Half life 2 and Left for dead. I don't know why they can't charge for DLC though steam.

Also whats this games for windows stuff about? It logs into my gamer tag just like on the xbox 360.

Well they kinda ruined COD, I tried to play this weekend and was constantly kicked out for not having the map packs.

The most I could play was 3 rounds. It seems really unfair that the pc version of the game is about $15 cheaper, and includes all the DLC for free.

As for the HDMI cable I bought one for my new TV for $6-10 at ncix so I don't know why you are even bringing it up.

Still that's the best we have, so let's examine failure rates:

28M * 54.2% = 15,176,000
21.7M * 10.6% = 2,300,200

3m more consoles getting 3-5 hours of play is not going to massively effect 13m more consoles failing.

Of course this is all beside the point because the percentage of consoles played 3-5 hours is being compared to the percentage that fail, not the specific number that fail. Using the fact that more Xbox 360's have been shipped to retailers in no way excuses the ridiculous failure rate.

It just changed a few months ago. When COD5 came out I bought it for $65.99 which was kinda high priced already. A month later its release they bumped up the cost to $69.99 even COD4.

In alberta where I am the tax is only 5% but in others like Ontario pay 13%

Canada, where I live. And you don't wanna know what the special editions cost here.

Yeah $70 + tax for a game here in Canada in some provinces you will end up paying $78 after tax for that game. Also the Ms points are more money here, instead of 1600 points for $19.95 you get 1400.

I'm upgrading my pc next month (when my gold runs out)and saying bye bye to xbox 360.

The article fails to mention that the 360 is 1 million times more awesomer than the other systems... Only one of 3 of my Xbox's have Red Ringed and I had it back in 6 days. 6 DAYS, NOT A MONTH! They're customer service has always been great too. Microsoft handled the red ring problem pretty well in my opinion. Being able to spread the love has probably extended the life of my systems but let's be honest... the 360 is an incredible piece of hardware and when it's working... brings nothing but joy... expecially when some 10 year old t-bags you and questions your sexuality... Ahhhhhh... I heart my 360(s).

...and this is why the modern consumer is a freaking idiot. Way to show a company who KNOWNLY screwed you that you won't put up with their crap.......

It seriously depresses me at how much STUPID is in the world today.

Earths new slogan should be "DUMB: Powered by Twitter!"

my brother keeps rubbing in my face that I don't have a xbox 360. I guess I (Wii)ll keep it in mind next time.

Note: Will deliberatley misspelled on purpose

I have had 2 consoles go south with ROD and or E74 error message, these two consoles were repaired within a week or 2 when micosoft sent out boxes and shipping labels. Since then I now have a Elite that is just in warranty by a week and now have the E74 displayed, I called on 8/2/09 and talked to a tech after going though the written script that they put you though he gave me a service request number and I elected to have a shipping label sent by mail just like before, well when the 10th came around and I have not gotten the label I called microsoft back and of course I got someone else I explained my problem and he gave me another service request number and said it could take up to 10 days not counting saturday and sunday so that means I should get the label by the 8/21/09. this is not the way to do business I worked customer service repair for over 20 years and a 3 day turn is standard, it do not take 3 weeks to send a little label anywhere by UPS and then 2-3 weeks to get the unit back. What is up Microsoft? I still like the system but damn this is crazy.

Except 3 out of 5 of the Xbox 360 owners I know are on their third or fourth (all replaced under warranty, of course).

Let me put it this way: I know 5 people who own a 360. We, as a whole, have had 14 Xbox 360's. What's the failure rate per person there? ;)

(I'm in a large gaming clan that supports Xbox and PS3, and I'm getting my info on PS3's crappy online support from devoted PS3 fanboys.)

It's just such a frustration, after my 2nd 360 RROD'ed on me I quit playing the 360 except for "AAA" exclusive games I really wanted to play. Anything else I tried to get for my PC instead. I was always so worried about it dying on me again that I basically just quit using it. Late last June I decided I wanted to play some GTA4 I'd been avoiding because of worries of the red ring. So I tossed GTA4 in it started up said there was an update for the game. So I downloaded the update and then when the system restarted it red ringed. At first it would work for 20 - 30 minutes before the RROD, now it just goes straight to RROD.

At this point I'm thinking about waiting for a PS3 price drop (hopefully this fall) and selling off my 360 gear and going PS3, there are so few exclusive titles anymore that I'll still be able to play the games I want to on that platform... take everything I've said with a grain of salt at this point... I'm just really frustrated with Microsoft since my XNA account just got reupped for another year right before my 360 died.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with that. Maybe if it fails again you could specifically request a newer chip since you've had to send it in already so many times before? :/

@craptastico:

It depends on what you watch. I watch TV 3-4 hours a day. I'm a daytrader/swingtrader so I watch the financials for about 2 hours before the market opens then for about 1 hour after the market closes. Then at night I might watch The History Channel for an hour.
Then, like my good friend sburnap42, I like to read for an hour or two before going to bed. Right now I'm reading Nothing Like It In The World: The Men Who Built The Transcontinental Railroad.

However, they were polite, and fixed the problem to my satisfaction. It really wasn't a hassle.

One month (more like 2-3 weeks, actually) of downtime in four years, and I got a much newer machine and an extended warranty in return.

I wouldn't call that poor customer service. They acknowledged they had a real problem and tried to resolve it. That's a-ok in my book.

Never pay full price!

I'm curious how many other people are in this boat. The 360 will have been available for 4 year this fall. A lot of people with the 3 year warranty are hitting their 3 year limit (or will soon) and are having to make a decision when their system fails from red ringing or just not reading the discs anymore. What are you doing with your systems selling it all off or buying another 360?

@MostlyHarmless:

Thank you for making such a brilliant observation that may have been overlooked by sburnap42 in his fit of consumerist rage.

@sburnap42:

Do you not have any opinions on anything where someone else would also disagree with you and tell you "so fuck you very much?"
Don't get your virtual panties in a scrunch.

Sure, I went one month without it while waiting for a new one to arrive, but at least the company DID provide that repair for free and I still have a working machine that I get a lot of use out of.

@coren: i laughed very loud when i read that. it apparantly caused the cubicle gopher effect and everyone just stared at me.

i can't tell anyone why i laughed. i'm so immature.

I'm pretty sure it matters because it's a significant number of consoles in the 3%.

Going off the latest numbers of console sales... 28 Million Xbox 360's, and 21.7 PS3's the numbers line up like this:

28M * 40.3% = 11,284,000
21.7M * 37% = 8,029,000

That 3% difference equates to 3,255,000 more xbox consoles being utilized 3-5 hrs daily when compared to the PS3. While I'm not excusing the insanely high failure rate of the 360; it does show that 360 owners on average do put longer gaming sessions in when compared to ps3 Owners.

God... please... don't let this one die too.

@YouDidWhatNow?: hard to believe i just recently gave away a perfectly working Nintendo 64, Sega Genesis, and even an Atari 2600. the last one is probably older than the majority of the readers of this site and it works just as good as on day one. why can't Microsoft get one of these to last a year?

@sburnap42: good point. video games are hands down better for you than watching TV in terms of mental rot. at least with games you have to make some decisions and whatnot. watching TV (most TV) just causes people to sit and stare at a box, with their hand in a bag of chips. unfortunately i have a feeling many of these people play 3-5 hours, on top of their TV time.

MS does pay for bandwidth, but with most people paying $50/yr with the millions of users, they're paying off their bandwidth very well with some money left over.

The headset is free, but who wants a free headset that's going to break?

The avatar clothes aren't required, but if someone wanted some new stuff for theirs and then discovered you will get charged for it then it changes things.

I have 12 games for the Xbox 360, including Rockband, Guitar Hero and 2 remotes. Based off that, you can immediately assume I spent at least $500 on this console (I'd guestimate closer to $600), and there's no way I'd take my money elsewhere. The logic in taking your money elsewhere is horribly flawed because even if you do, there's you still have a chance in that console failing. And, if you buy a new console, you would also gain a new warranty which should be the most appealing part: 3 years for RROD and 1 year for everything else.

my xbox is on for at least 5 hours/day, but a good chunk of that time is utilizing it as a media center.

& how much time do i spend watching tv? maybe 4 hours/week, tops.

The Wii isn't targeted at hardcore gamers. The PS3 is, but it's still incredibly expensive and the online experience is lacking.

Want to play Fable II? Halo? Gears of War? Get the latest downloadable goodies for Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto IV or Fallout 3. You HAVE to own an Xbox 360, there's no other way to do it.

I think that's why some 360 owners will stick will the console come hell or high water.

PSN just doesn't seem to have the bandwidth. It takes forever to download anything, yet my 360 - on the same switch - plows through updates and large demo downloads effortlessly. Meanwhile it took my PS3 about 20 minutes to download the main area for Home. 20 minutes for 25 MB - and it doesn't even store it for later use!? Sorry, I'll gladly pay the $4.15/mo if it means having a properly programmed and maintained network system.

Simply stop watching TV, and play video games instead.

Even folks I know who are married, have a house and kids can still find a few hours of time to play if they're willing. Some get up a bit earlier, or stay up a bit later. That can get you a few hours a day during the week right there. It may not be enough to go raiding on WoW, but there's still plenty of stuff you can play in small chunks like that.

And while the 360's issues have been the most extreme, it's not as though previous consoles have been much better. The PS2, for instance, had a problem where dust would build up inside the system, and damage the DVD drive to the point where it couldn't read discs anymore. The problem wouldn't show up on most PS2s for at least a year - outside of the warranty. Sony's response? Nothing. An estimated 20% of PS2 sales were to people who were simply replacing a broken PS2.

Even Microsoft was loathe to do anything about the RROD problem until there were threats of nationwide class action suits from Europe. Then miraculously, Microsoft announced its current 3 year warranty and repair policy. I don't think Microsoft did anything special here. If Sony or Nintendo were in Microsoft's place, I'm pretty sure they would have done the same thing.

@mjbroken: The consol does have a lot of capability besides playing video games. However, the people I know that own an Xbox hardly ever (if ever) use the other capabilities. What percentage of Xbox owners are using it as a media center? Some, but I'm very confident in saying that it is a small percentage. And even if you are using it as a media center, it's still screen time.

I'm really not railing against gaming, or even complaining about it. I'm just saying that it's shocking that 40% of Xbox owners use it 3-5 hours a day. I can't read the survey (not online) so I don't know the methodology, but presumably that 40% does not even include people using it more than 5 hours a day.

10 years ago, the average gamer was around 23-25, single, male, and with a large amount of disposable income. While the demographic has shifted slightly, the fact that gaming is something that adults do more and more has not.

Back when I was single, 3-5 hours a day playing a game wasn't hard to do. After all, the average American is watching TV for 5-6 hours a day. Simply replace TV time with video games, and there you go.

@squinko: 40.3 percent of ALL Xbox owners is not a tiny segment of the gaming community.

It would have been nice if GI had broken the results down by hardware revision (eg. Launch version vs. Falcon vs. now)

This would explain why over 50% of them had a failed console (they're all early adopters) but only ~4% would never buy another Microsoft console (gamers care about games - not hardware.)

I wonder if they realize just how much money they would save by making a sturdy, reliable console. Less customer service. Less money on shipping. Less money on repair costs.

But then I suppose they've made a ton of money off this thing as is. If the business plan ain't broke, don't fix it (or the console).

This also means, on average, their 360s were getting more of a workout (how many of you game for 4-5 hrs/day?), and were more likely to have the earlier model of 360 that was prone to the overheating problem in the first place.

It also meant that theirs were amongst the first consoles to go through Microsoft's horrible repair department, which ended up shipping more bricks than a brick factory. Anyone else read about the one 360 owner who had sent his 360 in for repairs something like 6 times in 4 months? Eventually, Microsoft sent him a 360 that had been personally signed by Mr. Ballmer.

Finally, it also means they're going to be a lot more tolerant of hardware issues, so long as there are good games on the other side. So, the extremely low percentage of gamers who will never buy another Microsoft console makes sense. However, if their poll used a larger sample that covered a wider demographic, I bet this last statistic would be higher. A lot higher.

No PS3 comes with a HDMI cable which is pretty stupid for a system that brags it can do "True HD!"

A 6' HDMI cable costs what, $2-4 to make? (mine HDMI cables came from Monoprice who charges $7 for a 6' HDMI cable.)

@PinkBox:

That. Is. Bewildering.

On top of the fact that you have to mess with customer service at all - have to bother with shipping and recieving etc. Your tolerance for poor quality is astounding to me.

regardless, that's how xbox is making money. consoles are almost always loss-leaders - the maker simply hopes to make more money by accessorizing it with games & accessories. microsoft has done an excellent job identifying & developing as many revenue sources as possible with this in mind. every time you buy a game (hard copy or DL), rent a movie, buy skins, icons, avatar crap, new headsets every month, etc., etc., MS gets a piece of the action.

the business model is virtually flawless (the flaw being a shitload of busted consoles).

What I don't do is watch TV, something most adults do 3-5 hours a day.

I'm torn between selling all my XBOX gear and putting a towel on it until it fails. But no electronic equipment should have a failure rate this high.

However I bought a 360, but I bought it because I now have a console with a 3 year warranty. Beat that.

The console doesn't have a 50% failure rate. I have a feeling that over 8,000 consoles a day might draw more attention.

For all those who believe this, please head over to the internet to get your free M&M's, bigger penis and FREE iPOD!!!!!!!!!!11!!

1. Buy a new 360. I'm out $200-$300, but still have ~20 games to play.

2. Try to sell all my games/accessories. Probably only end up with about $150-$200. Buy a PS3 for $400. I'm still out $200-$300, but I only have the included games to play.

Gee. Tough call.

Also, retailers are starting to lower the price of the $400 ps3 model to $300, so when you take that and take into consideration that the ps3 has a bigger hard drive which can easily be upgraded using any standard 2.5" drive, built in wireless instead of requiring you to buy a proprietary $100 adapter, an actual web browser, bluray playback, and free online play, you don't even have to start factoring in the price of Live to see that the ps3 is the better deal.

-development costs and overall game size and value has also increased for XBLA titles go figure.

-It's still done(MS has had stuff on sale all summer) but on a smaller amount of items since fewer DLC items are selling as high numbers due to competition.

-30 for COD2 is indeed silly but 2-0 for mass effect is fair. One is made by the bloodsuckers at activision the other is published my MS again go figure.

-then don't buy it! I'm sure the new star wars game will have a variant you can unlock in the game.

/and MS's published failure rates of RROD are about 7%, btw. Considering how much I hate them right now with my dead 360 that is THEIR FAULT, I'd like to claim a higher number but...

Not much of a comparison.

That's right, Microsoft's own updates BREAK your console. I've never had a single problem until now. I downloaded the update, the Xbox tried to restart and instant RROD.

Heck, I'm only 30 years old, I've been gaming for over 20 years, and I'm *STILL* dragging the average down.

uh-oh.

guess what - no more red ring! w00t! i can't even begin to explain the joy of not having to get off my ass to power-up my xbox. boot-up from the controller is the single greatest feature ever added to console gaming.

Now as for my X360 Elite, it ships with its own HDMI cable.

@PinkBox:

...and you say these things like it's acceptable to you?

This is what boggles the mind. If it was your car that did that, would it be OK with you? Your TV? Your computer? Your refrigerator? Your cell phone?

Why does everyone seem to *not care* that their Xboxes are horribly unrealible? It's like back in the day when Harley-Davidsons had to have oil pans under them on the showroom floor, since they couldn't hold their oil when they shipped from the factory...and people were still buying them. WTF people?

-cost of average XBLA games has increased by $5
-DLC doesn't seem to be reducing in price or FREE over time anymore (they used to do this with map packs after a year or so)
-full-price digital downloads of games that are 4 years old (srsly - $30 for cod2? wtf?)
-400 MSP for a lightsaber. & it isn't even red.

Where's the logic in buying something you know will break?

@coren: If no one has a copy of the magazine and will give bullet points as to what it says, I'll go to B&N sometime today and take a brief look.

In addition the 360 is the only console that has had year on year growth. Even the beloved Wii has been declining for a while.

Um. No. the answer would be no.

Actually, much less since a friend let me borrow a 360 they no longer used while I waited for the refurb to arrive.

Luckily the game store let me exchange it, and the one they exchanged lasted a good two years - then yup. Got the red ring.

It did take almost a month to get the refurbished unit back, but I've had it for a good year now with no problems.

My boyfriend's brother has had to send his back three times now, and still has problems with it. :/

Almost all of my friends who have 360's have experienced the red ring at least once, so from personal experience - I do believe this data has a ring of truth to it.

Why continue to get 360's? The content, the community, and I personally enjoy streaming Netflix through mine.

I also own a Wii and a PS3, and rarely use either of those. I'm not a big xbox/microsoft fangirl by any means... I just honestly find myself having a lot more use for the Xbox.

Yeah, I know you get all the stuff with the Elite and Premium versions, and it is cheaper to the consumer to buy the Premium or the Elite then buying everything separately. Still at the end of the day that head set is cheaply made and probably costs MS a dollar or two.

As for the PS3, HDMI and mini usb cables are cheap if you know where to look.

@SonicMan: Yeah, but that's 3.8% of people who actually bought 360's -- and by a certain point most of them must have known what they were getting into. So it's not that surprising that they would do it again.

I'm sure it has affected sales to other people, though. For example, I loved my old XBox and would otherwise have gotten a 360. But I wasn't going to buy something I knew was going to croak on me -- the reliability issue is absolutely the reason I've never bought a 360.

For example this video plainly show serious fundamental design flaws that can't be fixed by replacing components. It's just broken, literally :)

So their RMA process can't address the fundamental issues. Thus need for multiple returns causing the numbers to be inflated.

Second, the survey probably suffers from a large case of selection bias as well, which will skew the numbers.

...and yet people still "love" the thing and you have hordes of fanboys singing it's praises, so on and so forth. People have lost their minds...there is no possible universe in which such shoddy products are acceptable...but there you go.

Reminds me of all the problems that Creative soundcards had...Creative was the only sound card maker ever to have absolute hardware incompatibility issues...let alone otherwise poor quality control and the world's worst drivers. But, their specs on paper were the best, and they got the best review, so the sheep kept buying them. Now, thankfully, on-board sound is good enough for virtually everybody...so for the most part this problem took care of itself.

It should also not be run for hours and hours on end without a rest period AND should be regularly cleaned. I had a customer awhile back bring me a launch PS3 that had stopped working. I don't think the thing had been cleaned ONCE. It was gunked up with all kinds of nastiness, including dried candy and other food, dog hair and mountains of dust in every hole on the console. Gee I wonder why it didn't work? You'd be shocked to hear how many people answer "never" when I ask when the last they cleaned their console was.

I had a party a week before, and there was at least three hours of Rock Band that got played (badly, hilariously).

Actually, now that I think about it, who gave you the power to judge how I spend my free time?

Say what??? I think you got you consoles mixed up... Every single ps3 has HDMI. And of course the include the mini usb charging cable for the controllers. What are you smoking???

@pecan 3.14159265 (now with star power): Yes, I understand that 40.3 percent is less than all...but that's still a few million isn't it? And I'd bet that people underestimate the amount of time they spend on the XBOX because you often lose track of time while gaming.

I will admit to gaming for 2 or 3 hours in a day, on rare occasions...but daily? I am not against gaming at all. I just think that 3-5 hours, combined with computer and TV time (hell, even without computer and TV time), is shocking and unhealthy. Of course, I'm not advocating for telling adults how to spend their time.

I've had the dick drive fail twice and they fixed that free of charge(I spent the original 50$ to MS for end to end, 3 year coverage on the device).

The thing delivers as a great gaming device, an extender for my Windows 7 Media Center extender(I use windows as my DVR) and as the main DVD player for my house. It's on doing various functions for hours on end for the whole family. My wife, who is not a gamer says the thing is the best entertainment purchase we ever made.

I would halve the percentages given and that seems to be around the ballpark for the 1st gen xbox360 failure rates, if you extrapolate Microsoft's massive warranty write down to cover these repairs. If you halve the other consoles that puts them in the ballpark of where most consumer electronics gear failure rates are.

@Blueskylaw: To each his own, I guess. I agree that moderation is important, but some people choose to spend their time playing video games for hours and hours. I can only do that once in a while, possibly only on a weekend. But some people spend more time playing video games - it's not as if they're all sitting on the couch in their pajamas - some people play online, some people invite friends over. It can be an enriching social experience with other individuals as well as entertainment.

@pecan 3.14159265 (now with star power):

Everything in moderation. Three to five hours a day playing video games is not moderation. Life is too short to spend that much time playing games. Go read a good book, learn a new language, volunteer at the community center. These are things that will help you live a better and more fulfilled life and not which virtual outfit to buy for my avatar.

For example, how many of the respondents bought an already refurbished console and responded based on that? That would surely skew the numbers.

And don't you get a refurb back when yours red rings in many cases (never having had to, I don't know this)? So potentially could they be taking say Jimmy who's had 5 failures in the life of his console (almost 4 years - he bought it at launch with the older chip) and counting that as five failures, but four of them were of refurb models that *already* failed?

For that matter, my understanding is that an older chipset was more likely to redring than ones currently in use (and maybe there was an iteration between that was in the middle in terms of failure rates?)

I mean, what we could be looking at is not a 50+ percent failure rate of consoles, but a..say 20 percent (still unacceptable but far less shocking) failure rate, and an incompetent repair division? Or might this indicate a specific piece of hardware is faulty and on units without it the failure rate is far more reasonable, and they stay fixed?

Plus I don't really trust Game Informer (which is created by GameStop/EB, which certainly has a vested interest in the results of this poll) as a scientific poll conductor. Not to mention - weren't they the ones who originated the 30 percent rumor? And now they have "proof"!

Or it could just be a 50 percent failure rate.

Whoops, 54.2%, not 50.4%

Additionally, this is a survey of Game Informer readers, who are not a representative sample of the overall gamer population.

I think it's irresponsible to publish data from such an obviously flawed survey.

if you paid more you're still getting a headset, HDMI cable and an admittedly overpriced HDD(when sold seperatley). the controllers work with any wired cell phone headset as well. and again PS3 doesn't include a HDMI no matter what version you buy(the controlelrs don't even come with mini usb cables, and wii voice option is a joke.

not that I disagree with the main thrust of your argument, just that aspect of it.

I have just about every game system made since the Atari 2600 except for the Wii. I've had my 360 for about a year and a half and have not had a single problem with it, even with the occassional 12+ hour gaming binge. I even have a PS1 from the original batch that still plays games flawlessly without any repairs. The only system I've ever had a problem with is my Super Nintendo (the video went out on it). Of all the people I know that have a 360, only one has ever had a problem and Microsoft fixed it quickly.

As for the usage stats - the 360 simply has more games that appeal to more people than both the PS3 and Wii combined, so of course it's going to get played a lot more, increasing the failure rate. Most of the 360 owners I know play their 360 all the time while the PS3 and Wii owners barely touch their systems because the games just aren't there or aren't worth playing more than an hour or two.

In regard to the network of the systems - you get what you pay for. The 360 has you pay for the premium subscription, but the speeds, especially when downloading patches and content, are nice and fast. The PS3 is painfully slow and frequently needs patches just to play your games. I usually start the PS3 patch download and go do something else for a while and when I come back it's still downloading. The network reliability is also nowhere near as good as the 360 - the PS3 is constantly laggy and randomly disconnects, I don't have this problem on the 360.

It just seems to me that most people hate the 360 because it's Microsoft and no other reason and most of the people that seem to have the problems are the people with the blogs. Yes, the 360 does have a problem with hardware failures (and often customer service), but from personal experiences and talking to a lot of people I know, it seems to be a bit blown out of proportion. Again, that's just my personal experience in the matter.

@backbroken: But that's less than all of the users. And three hours may not mean three hours in a row. For instance, when I get home I could spend an hour playing a game, then make dinner, then have dinner and have quality conversation with Mr. Pi...and then we can take turns playing Grand Theft Auto!

@Cupajo: Ahh. I read "Bought very shortly after lauch" as "Bought very shortly after lunch" and did a 'baroo?'

I need more coffee.

@Blueskylaw: But what if they aren't complaining that they can't pay their bills? The economy does suck right now, that's a fact, not an opinion. But if they're making their bills perfectly fine, why shouldn't they spend a few hours playing games?

@Preyfar: Did 54.2% of users suffer from RROD or did it break in other ways, and the sum of all the problems contributed to the 3% figure of users who would never buy one again? To me, it's not immediately clear that people were so upset specifically and only because of RROD.

bought an elite in november of 07 and in jan of 08 it suffered complete video failure. failure on ms part is that they wanted to charge me $120 on a system that i had spent $400 on just over one year before. now have ps3 and much happier, works better and best of all i dont have to spend $7/month to play my games in multiplayer. 360 blows and you know it

I have had my 360 for a couple of years, and got my first RROD this spring. When I sent it in, I got my replacement quickly, but MS sent me an older model and refuses to fix their mistake. I've officially stopped playing my 360 and bought a PS3 last month, which I am very happy with.

The whole breaking thing is why I switched to a ps3 and have no intentions of looking back. The console is terrible and the fact that they charge to go online and use online games is assinine. Much happier with the ps3, which also doubles as a linux computer. Much better value than 360

You'd think that number would be drastically higher.

I almost have to imagine that number was inflated by people voting "yes" to make their console of choice seem the superior one.

I'm sad that we live in a society where the most 'shocking' number isn't that "...40.3 percent of 360 owners use the console three to five hours a day..."

I mean, 3 to 5 hours a day? How much of the remainder of the day is spent watching TV or using a computer? We've become slaves to our screens. This is frightening...not that Microsoft would cut quality corners in a consumer product. Frankly, that's expected.

Frankly, if this was an online poll I'd have to put some doubt into the numbers. The 360 failure rate is *high*, no doubt, but 50%+? If the failure rate was TRULY that high I imagine there'd be full recalls, not merely warranty extensions.

Gamers are viciously loyal to their consoles and companies. If it was an online poll you can't discount the more rabid fans of the PS3 and Nintendo voting negatively to make the 360 appear worse off than it is. Again, the 360's failure rates *ARE* high, but 54.2% is astronomical.

@Sepp_TB:

Not that much time. That amount of time is like a part time job.
If those same adults are complaining that they can't pay their bills and the economy sucks while spending 3 to 5 hours a day playing games then you get no sympathy from me.
c'est la vie

I have had mine since launch and gone through 2 red rings, but both times they were pretty quick in getting the console back. I think the system they put in place works pretty well , there is zero cost to the customer.

I would buy another XBOX 360 even if the warranty was not covered, its all about the content / games / etc. Its the software and content that makes the console good.

I have a WII and NEVER play it , I was thinking about getting a PS3 for the Blue Ray and a few games that XBOX does not have. But now XBOX has HD netlix and my cable has HD on-dememand , I really dont see the point.

People need to understand that XBOX PS3 WII , they all offer different experiances.

Too bad MS does not let 3rd partys make consoles - might help with the quality issues

As for the headset, you still had to pay more for the console to get it "free."

Sadly, only 3.8% of the 'victims' have the right idea. The rest are so heavily invested in the system that they can't bring themselves to throw away all of that money to send a message to the manufacturer.

@Cupajo: Why did you buy two for yourself?

@Sepp_TB: Halo had a lot to do with it, I think. The PS3 has some great offerings, and I don't think it means that the 360 is solely winning the number count based on games - but it's also that the PS3 is a more end-of-the-line technology. Not only is the system itself expensive, it is so because it doubles as a blu-ray player, which most people are hesitant to adopt because the discs are more expensive and they need a HDTV to fully appreciate it. So I think on some level, it's not that the 360 is just so phenomenally better, it's that the PS3 offers something that most of the country has yet to fully accept or adopt. I have a PS3 but not a HDTV. It was justifiable to buy the PS3 because it's possible I'll get a HDTV in the future, but also because I can't do the same with the 360 or the Wii.

@GitEmSteveDave_DOESHookUp:

5000 game informer readers is a pretty good sample, the number is likley alittle higher among GI readers beacuse if they get the magazine , they probably play the console more ( making it more likely to fail )

As far as the shipping costs , MS wrote off 1 BILLION dollars last year to cover the warranty issues. So its entirey possible that half of the UK sent the machines back.

I'd say it makes things all the more embarrassing for Sony, that despite the fact that the 360 hardware is an unstable piece of crap as often as not, many people still think it is better than the alternative.

@acvicari: To play games? Or what? Friday night we used it for about 5 hours to watch DVDs but didn't use it for games at all. Does "use" only mean games?

I'd like to read the article to see how they came up with that number...

@logicalnoise: This. The 360 was the middle ground between the three consoles. It wasn't as expensive as the PS3 and it offered more mature titles than the Wii. It was the best of both worlds for some people.

There are just too many variables that this survey doesn't take into account to make it a viable source of information. Also, since when is 5,000 a good sampling? Besides, we don't even know how many of that 5,000 actually had a 360.

Shoot I played my Wii even less than an hour a day. In fact I sold it for a PS3.

"Results said 40.3 percent of 360 owners use the console three to five hours a day"

I hope that it's the parents' kids spending that much time playing video games and not the parents themselves.

THe 360 failing is obviously a major, major problem, but Microsoft's response since the problem became obvious (ie, obvious to Microsoft) has been good in getting it fixed. THat's the major reason why most people aren't holding it against them, they've generally got their working 360's back within about 2 weeks of them breaking.

If my 360 broke, I'd probably get another one too... even though I also have a PS3 that has worked flawlessly since purchase.

@logicalnoise:
Serious question, what percentage of current model failure would be acceptable to you? Let's say for all units 1 year old.

And this matters why? That difference is much too small to have had any significant impact on the 54% vs 11% failure rate. At most, it accounts for 3% of consoles failing.

Save your money for a Phantom, it'll be a better investment

MS pays for the bandwidth and so in turn needs some money to offset the cost.

The headset is free...why are you complaining? no other console has a free headset.

avatar clothing isn't required and they've released free stuff or the past year. some games will end up unlocking avatar stuff as well.

"and frightening from a consumer perspective - is only 3.8 percent of Xbox 360 owners said they'd never buy another Xbox because of hardware failure.
"

Why the shock. Its all about the content. If the system did not have good games, people would not buy it.

"The most shocking number from the survey - and frightening from a consumer perspective - is only 3.8 percent of Xbox 360 owners said they'd never buy another Xbox because of hardware failure."

In observing my foster kids & their friends with various game systems, fancy shell phones, clothes, etc., I am afraid that the bottom line has become strictly entertainment and the wow factor. Quality and value for the dollar be damned. Everything is viewed as disposible and temporary.

I consider myself lucky that my 360 is going on 3 years old, is played often, and hasn't missed a beat.

Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know anyone personally that has any kind of 360 failure. I keep hearing that high failure rate, but don't know anyone who's had to deal with it, aside from what I read online.

Maybe I should play the lottery....

I'm also sick of DLC that's free for the PC while they charge you $10 for a COD map pack. And if you havne't bought them you get booted out of every other game when you try to play.

The cheap headset that came with my elite broke at the hinge after 4 months of use.

Now they charge you for fake clothing for your avatar.