[www.zrecommends.com]

Here's a link to the doc (it's a PDF):

[mysigg.com]

An analogy: I could see a similar situation with guns that, say, contained lead... And people would be pointing at those "stupid rednecks" for buying guns they "don't need" - because obviously, only "stupid rednecks" are going to EVER buy a gun.

Just because folks buy a sigg waterbottle or such doesn't mean they're a yuppie. Yuppies buy other things too. Like underwear. Doesn't make the underwear a yuppie product.

Hell, even uggs have some non-irritating buyers.

So why exactly are folks saying that the product (this product, specifically, and only one product versus a line or group) makes the stereotype, versus a stereotype possibly making up a proportion of a consumer base...?

@drrictus: Hahaha. I know, right? Because I'm all up-in-arms about NOT being all up-in-arms.

@utensil42: The older non-polycarbonate ones weren't suitable for high temperatures, if I recall correctly. Not usually a problem unless you want to take along very hot fluids (coffee, soup) for outdoor activities in the cold. (I love the convenience of Nalgene's when camping/backpacking, although my non-BPA-free Sigg is lighter.)

I agree. My anxiety comes from the swath we'll carve through other species until we extinguish enough of ourselves to allow others to survive what's left. Depleted uranium is one amongst a host of uber-crazy human innovations.

As was said in "The Matrix;" We're less mammals than we are closer to a virus or cancer.

The issue should never have been branded as 'Save The Planet". Earthquakes, fires, tornados, global warming... None threaten the planet. But they do threaten to change the conditions on the planet to some far less hospitable to humanity.

"Save The Human Race" is far more accurate. However, since we do not look like cute little pandas, and have shown over time a great propensity for the most acute acts of stupidity and self destruction, it raises the question: Why are we worth saving?

I am not saying that we are not. But to avoid this reflection stinks of dogma.

Always the same thing: When running out of factual arguments, make fun of whomever disagrees with your position as to discredit their statements.

If you have a brain, use it - otherwise STFU: I think most folks have by know become aware of that tactic. Hopefully, anyway.

The effect of "pure" water in those nice bottles - aside from obvious mountains of empties littering the land, and the resources needed to produce them that could be better used elsewhere, and general abuse of workers and local population such as with Fiji water - are far from being healthy: Water without electrolytes is not the best for you.

Meanwhile most tap water is quite pure enough, as long as your municipality takes care of business. And if it does not, then perhaps citizen should get it to act now.

But I guess the easy way is best, and you simply prefer buying again what your taxes already paid for, from Pepsi and Coca-Cola.

Good guess, and yes, I do work in IT. :o)

And for those that have bottles so they don't spill, or because they're free (although, for me, even free doesn't make it worth it if I can't use it in the dishwasher), that makes perfect sense. I'm also lucky enough to have a large enough desk that spills don't reach anything critical, and water doesn't require any extra cleaning after being mopped up [this is from experience].

However, those who bought bottles just for the hype, you know who you are... You're the people that drive me crazy, usually because you're the ones discussing your lovely new (insert item/fad of the week/month/year that improves over last week's item that somehow kills/makes insane) and I'm the one doing my best to smile and not roll my eyes.

I mention the desk job thing specifically to exclude those that use bottles because they're on the move. Clearly, you're not going to use a glass if you're a construction worker or a roving salesman. You'll use an old Gatorade bottle or thermally insulated coffee mug instead.

Yes, we have a dishwasher. But then again, we have several hundred people per building (and a couple of hundred per floor), and a lot of buildings. :) So, it gets plenty of use.

A free market is a term that economists use to describe a market which is free from economic intervention and regulation by government, other than protection of property rights (i.e. no regulation, no subsidization, no single monetary system, and no governmental monopolies).

According to the definition, theo, there's no regulation to compel companies to be forthcoming about their malfeasance. By definition, the free market leaves ethical and moral decisions in the hands of the very entities that would stand to profit most by their concealment.

Your statement about companies being allowed to hide information from their customers is a contradiction in terms since by definition, there is no regulation in a 'free market' to ensure disclosure.

@henrygates: Well said. I stopped listening to all this bull a long long time ago. It's wonderful today, then tomorrow "research shows" it'll cause three types of cancer and hair loss. OR, It'll kill you today, then a few years later, it's the best thing on earth for you.
Look at the current research on eggs. Now, they're better for you than anything else; full of healthy vitamins, minerals, vital nutrients, and have very little effect on cholesterol levels. I never stopped huffing them down by the dozens, and I'm glad I did.
//thumbs nose at researchers//

@shepd: OMG! OMG! It's like I wrote this myself! I'm a chick in a tech place (don't stare; I'm thin and have no zits) but... I'm a total trekkie with my mug and my purple clunker in the lot of BMWs and other hot rides.

Cheers! (clink) :-)

I believe the poster was also implying that libertarians are idiots, which is kind of pointless on this site.

@RogerTheAlien: You're just being a hipster/doofus.

@catastrophegirl: Unlined steel bottle here also. I forget the name of the company, but I like it a lot. Except when I forget it in the car, and it gets quite hot!

@RogerTheAlien: Do you really want to talk about generalizations? And I quote:

"This is very much a yuppie/hippie issue. Every year, there's a new "issue" that a certain segment of society (yuppies and/or hippies) must promote."

I'm neither a yuppie nor a hippie. Plenty of people like Sigg water bottles for non-BPA reasons.

And yes, I own (rather owned) a Sigg bottle. I am not concerned about BPA, but I'd rather not use a bottle advertising a company that's been lying to its customers. And no, I've never owned hemp anything and if I had kids, I would not be averse to punishing them. Just to round out your stereotype.

BPA is in the lining in a lot of canned goods as well, including coke cans and beer cans (clear coating) and campbell's soup cans (white or clear coating) - look iside the next can of soup you open. bet you it's white and plastic lined!

But lets put it another way - you calculate that this year you owe $12000 in taxes; the IRS gets back to you and says, "No, you actually owe us $21000 in taxes." Still seem like a small amount? This is the exact same percentage increase as in the BPA.

@RogerTheAlien: Please visit the site:

stuffwhitepeoplelike.com

I think your views will line up perfectly with the site (and mine) and you'll get some good humor out of it as well.

@JollyJumjuck: Here is something my dad taught me back when I was in school and people kept stealing my supplies:

Write your name on it.. You might look like a dork but you'll still have your water bottle.

I'm not up in arms about it or anything--I find the bottles convenient at times myself, and Lord knows the coffee drinkers have been attached to a beverage wherever they go for years. But I don't think there really is much of an argument for it being necessary for most of us. We just like it.

The results are only statistically significant. The BPA levels went from 1.2 ug/g to 2.1 ug/g.

It's like all the weight loss commercials. The results are statistically significant that you do lose weight. But is half a pound really a difference in the big picture?

@veronykah: Yes, aluminum is a good conductor of heat. They use it in cookware for that very reason.

@shepd: Um, I'm pretty sure human beings need to drink water even if they're just sitting down.

Everyone at my job has a water bottle (not a Naglene one, not sure who made these) because a while back they gave everyone one. They don't have to buy as many paper/plastic cups and we don't have to keep getting up just to get water.

@HiPwr: Sometimes people throw things in to try to make them sound smart...

I must be behind the times...I thought BPA was only (potentially/allegedly) dangerous when it was heated in a microwave or used with hot foods?

I just use the same plastic water bottle or soda bottle over and over again. I have a couple on hand fill them up from the tap when they get empty and keep in the fridge.

I have a lead goblet I carry around at work and sip from constantly.

@H3ion: The ones issued to us were 100% olive drab plastic. There's no telling what the chemical make-up of the material was.

I never thought about carrying one around work. That would be hilarious. Especially while wearing a gas mask with the little tube feeder connected to the canteen!

@Hanshiro: I don't get the connection between this and the 'free market'.

I just always got the feeling that these were never explicitly sold as BPA-free. People just assumed that since they're metal (but, as we now know, not completely metal), they couldn't possibly contain BPA. Then, through word of mouth, BPA-phobic people started buying them. But did SIGG ever market them as such?

And just to chime in, I rarely use my water bottle, but it's plastic and BPA free. At work, I use a mug.

@dollywould: It's not that their consumer choices affect me, it's that this "concern" is all so seemingly disingenuous. Give it like a month or two, and people will be on to something else, ranting about how their life has been irreversibly altered for the worse by some other potentially-lethal product having completely forgotten about BPA. There's always some bandwagon to jump on, something to make headlines about and become a talking head about. And that's smug of YOU, dollywould (though that's a cool name, by the way), to assume that I'm faulting people for having differing opinions. Actually, your statement makes you a giant hypocrite; you're faulting me for supposedly faulting someone else for making different choices. Shouldn't I be entitled to my own opinions, too? Apparently not, by your standards.

@kastermonster: I'm not angry at the world. Sometimes you just gotta call "shenanigans" on people. Ask how many people actually knew what BPA was before the article. Probably not a lot. Ask how many actually TOOK steps to COMPLETELY eliminate BPA from their lives, not just crying wolf about Nalgene-type water bottles. Probably even fewer. It's just something to get worked up over that won't last. And since when did having a dissenting opinion or thinking someone was making mountains out of molehills amount to being "angry at the world." Keep your generalizations to yourself, and I'll keep mine to MYself.

I'm sorry you're so angry at the world.

The bonus of having a bottle on your desk is it won't spill on your keyboard or paperwork.

@Magspie:
The high ground for a company that has profitted so much from the BPA scare would be to offer FREE replacement bottles.
Any bets to see if they'll actually do this?
Let's coin a new term: "Consumer Wacking"

All I need is my metal flask containing a little Johnny Walker in it and I'm fine. It's the flask with "Aces Wild" etched on the side.

@henrygates: Didn't you know?!?!?! Virgin pixie sweat contains asbestos! It WILL kill you!

@bennilynn: This is very much a yuppie/hippie issue. Every year, there's a new "issue" that a certain segment of society (yuppies and/or hippies) must promote. Sometimes it's touting the wonders of hemp clothing as opposed to that awful, awful cotton that we've been using for over a century. Then they move on to positive parenting and how, despite years of evidence to the contrary, spanking kids will cause them to be maladjusted sociopaths when they grow up. After that, it's a issue about how non-filtered, not-out-of-a-bottle water will kill you or give you cancer or turn you into a zombie...with cancer that killed you - so you MUST buy a PUR or Britta filter and make sure your family NEVER drinks anything that's not from a bottle or through a filter. Today's new issue is this BPA thing. I'm not saying it's not harmless, but these fools will jump on any bandwagon that gives them the opportunity to tell someone else just how much healthier/smarter/eco-friendlier they are than the rest of the population. It's like some perverse version of Keeping Up with The Joneses; but instead of material items, it's more about "I have a smaller carbon footprint than you" (stolen from Stuff White People Like, by they way, but it's totally true)

Sorry, you're incorrect in that belief:

"Boston, MA -- A new study from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) researchers found that participants who drank for a week from polycarbonate bottles, the popular, hard-plastic drinking bottles and baby bottles, showed a two-thirds increase in their urine of the chemical bisphenol A (BPA). Exposure to BPA, used in the manufacture of polycarbonate and other plastics, has been shown to interfere with reproductive development in animals and has been linked with cardiovascular disease and diabetes in humans. The study is the first to show that drinking from polycarbonate bottles increased the level of urinary BPA, and thus suggests that drinking containers made with BPA release the chemical into the liquid that people drink in sufficient amounts to increase the level of BPA excreted in human urine."

[www.hsph.harvard.edu]

I wish people knew the story of BPA from a historical perspective that at least went back as far as Theo Coburn's Our Stolen Future. And I wish people got an education in chemistry in compulsory high school so the public could actually talk about these things intelligently. And finally, I wish that the "what's the big deal, everything's going to kill you" were forced to drink large quantities of those chemicals they're saying aren't going to kill you. Because that would eliminate the need to have a real discussion about these things 'cause all the naysayers would be dead, or able to prove the chicken-littles we're wrong.

www.ourstolenfuture.org

*ding* We have some nice consolation prizes, thanks for playing....

The Internet's ruined our culture if we're patting ourselves on the back for using a glass.

[tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com]

Seriously, go back to protesting Alar, or something.

Horrific.

The sooner we stop perpetuating the myth that the planet was made for us, the better for every other living thing...

In fact, there's nothing hippie/yuppie-like in this entire article. It's an article about consumers not getting what they paid for. Why even bring it up?

Bottles manufactured after August 2008 contain no BPA whatsoever. Sigg argues that consumers shouldn't worry, because their tests show that the liner doesn't leech BPA into the bottle's contents-it simply contains the substance. So why did it take the company a year to admit the change?

I'm guessing a leak forced their hand. But see, they are telling the truth...this time...

How could this happen in the 'free market?' /snark

Lexan is a registered trademark for SABIC Innovative Plastics' (formerly General Electric Plastics) brand of polycarbonate resin thermoplastic. Polycarbonate polymer is produced by reacting Bisphenol A with carbonyl chloride, also known as phosgene.

Just sayin'...

You have a DISHWASHER at work? Sweet!

Ya know, the water with the minute amounts of every single drug in existence.

That way, when I put it in my steel bottle, I know it's safe.

I'm the only tearaway--I bought a Star Trek glass last time I was a BK for $1.99. That's my work glass. It's lasted through the corporate dishwasher for months, and I expect it'll last a lot longer.

Let's see: It's 1/10th the price, it's made of a substance that has been known safe for centuries (no lead in this glass), and I don't have to do all kinds of contortions to get it washed (just pop it in the dishwasher at the end of the day with all the mugs).

Being a non-hippie/yuppie has lots of advantages. Another of them being that I own the most hunk-of-junk car on the parking lot, and I don't care. It's good on gas and still works.