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Changed my name to \"I like potatoes\"
August 4, 2009 12:34 PM
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It's just shocking that someone with a 2.7 GPA can't find a job, regardless of the job market. I mean, she showed up to class almost all the time! Get a clue, employers!

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8 replies
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Dethzilla
August 5, 2009 7:56 PM
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@changed my name: I'm graduated with an Fine Arts Degree, 2.0 GPA and I'm currently responsible for supporting the 2nd largest private network infrastructure in the country. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!


Oh... and err... McDonald's wouldn't hire me.... ever.

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cordeduroi
August 5, 2009 5:12 PM
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@changed my name:

Below the belt! I didn't have a very impressive GPA either, but Im know dummbie!

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 5, 2009 8:49 PM
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@cordeduroi: I mean, it's one thing to call someone stupid because of their GPA. It's completely reasonable to make a comment about their work ethic and their ability to find a job with that.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 5, 2009 8:48 PM
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@cordeduroi: Not really below the belt. They never called her a dummie. I had a 2.8 GPA until the end of my sophomore year of college. I certainly wasn't stupid, but I was certainly lazy and certainly not surprised to find myself having trouble finding an internship.

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alexawesome
August 5, 2009 3:26 PM
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@changed my name: This is such bullshit. I'm as bitter as the next person, but I'm not about to sue my school. My school didn't live up to a lot of expectations, and the entire education system we have is deeply flawed. Suing a school isn't going to solve any of these problems, but it will enable this half-wit to avoid having to work right away.

What she doesn't seem to realize, though, is a lawsuit won't help her out beyond helping her pay off her loans and the three months of accrued interest.

I guess she flunked her math classes, too?

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madog
August 6, 2009 10:07 PM
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@alexawesome: Because I was born in California and our governator doesn't seem to think that healthcare and a college education are important, I am unable to go back to school next semester. I'll also be forced to start paying off my student loans because I am not attending, and because of the economy in general is si bad I am unable to find a full time job.

I also just had a baby and was sort of relying on my grants/loans but will bot recurve them for the next year (as my school will not be accepting returning/transfer students for this semester and the next). The OP has nothing to bitch about and if anyone deserves help it's people like me who are in a similar situations.

Not being given a job is just them being stupid and lazy, but being denied schooling and denied a job while actively searching is an actual problem.

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madog
August 6, 2009 10:08 PM
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@madog: Some lovely iPhone autocorrects in there....

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sprocket79
August 4, 2009 8:25 PM
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@changed my name: I should use that next time I go for an interview. I had a 3.9 GPA but that doesn't matter! I had perfect attendance!!!

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 4, 2009 2:56 PM
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There is so much wrong with this I can't even...GAH!

Please, PLEASE tell me this woman isn't serious. Please tell me this adult, college educated woman does not honestly expect her college to get companies to call her to set up an interview. Please tell me that she does not seriously expect that she ought not be put through the stress of looking for her own job.

All I want is for this to be a fool looking for a pay day. As stupid as it is to think that suing a college for unemployment would work it is better than her thinking that she has a legitimate complaint. You pay tuition for the chance to earn a degree not to guarantee employment.

If she does think she has a real complaint then how did she even make it through college with this mindset? How come she's not suing the school for the stress of having to attend class and buy her own books?

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6 replies
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Dave on bass
August 6, 2009 2:04 AM
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@Rectilinear Propagation:

\"Please tell me this adult, college educated woman does not honestly expect her college to get companies to call her to set up an interview.\"

Nope, read her complaint again... to set up a interview.

Dammit, even $70k in tutision can't fix adult, college-educated stupid.

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Keavy_Rain
August 7, 2009 8:13 AM
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@Dave on bass: Really, its a reply to all of you.

Two things: One, the \"Job Placement Assistance\" means someone at the college gets paid to scan Craigslist and send you (and everyone else who signed up for the service) listings. I know this because a friend of mine has a cushy job doing this.

Two, even if you have a good GPA and solid attendance, it don't mean nuttin' if you only speak one language. My sister took a Medical Assistant course at one of these \"Graduate in 18 months!\" colleges and she ended up taking an in-home care job because she only speaks English.

Life's unfair and it sucks that good people cannot get jobs, but I do find it comforting that useless wastes of life, like the woman in this story, cannot find work.

Take some goddamn responsibility, accept any job you can find, and be happy you're employed.

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edicius
August 5, 2009 4:21 AM
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@Rectilinear Propagation: You'd be surprised. I work at a college and most of these kids are ill-prepared for the real world, even after graduation.

One example: I overheard one side of a phone conversation while walking across campus which went something like, \"C'mon, just send me more money...ewww, no, I'm not getting a job at CVS or anything like that, just send me more money!\"

Another example: Girl fails a class. Her father is a large donor to the university and contacts the Provost. Provost orders professor to pass the girl. He refuses and is fired. She unsuccessfully sues the professor for (bogus) sexual harassment. Professor sues the girl and the university for ruining his reputation. Six-figure settlement from the university results.

Simply put, these brats are spoiled. And in many cases, it's their parents that have made them this way by catering to their every friggin' whim. I've heard so many tales from faculty of parents calling professors to complain about their kids' grades, when legally, these professors cannot discuss such matters over the phone (verification of identity, privacy issues, etc.) and kids that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions on campus, be it in classes or otherwise. What really irks me is that these same spoiled brats are probably going to continue getting handouts from mommy and daddy's companies while I'm stuck on the ground floor still working my ass off.

I just graduated from the same university at which I work and you know what? I don't expect them to find me a job. If I want to find a post-graduation gig, I need to do it on my own. Sure, we have a career development office, but I'm a bit old for that (I'm almost 30) and frankly, it's not very useful for liberal arts majors anyway. I know that I'm not one of those lucky ones in a position for a handout, so I do what I can on my own and take responsibility for what I do and don't do.

Huh. Imagine that. Personal responsibility.

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OneBigPear
August 5, 2009 8:05 PM
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@edicius: A couple years ago, one of my former co-workers was is TEARS because her Dad refused to buy her a house.

I really wish I were joking about that.

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Englishee Teacher
August 5, 2009 6:38 AM
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@edicius: Egads. I took a first year French course in my final year of university, and those kids made me want to shoot myself sometimes. The first day of class one girl threw a fit and yelled at me because the prof just handed someone the stack of course outlines and they passed them along haphazardly... I got one and she didn't and she decided to yell at me for it because it \"should have gone to her first!!!\".

Even better, though, was my final project for my degree, where we had to write a 20 page (single spaced, none of this double spaced, including appendices crap) paper in a group of three people. We split up the work and when one of the guys in our group handed me his portion, imagine my surprise when I discovered he didn't seem to know what the topic was! Instead of writing about the state of Mercedes-Benz in the early nineties, he wrote half a page on the first steam powered automobile in the 1800s. This was a student one semester away from having a degree.

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the_wiggle
August 5, 2009 4:15 AM
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@Rectilinear Propagation: she's suing as she thought the tuition covered opportunities to interview etc.

mistaken, yes. common tho given the way some school's market themselves = YES DEVRY I'M LOOKING AT YOU.

always gotta read that fine print.

and keep your grades up - duh.

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dmolavi
August 4, 2009 2:57 PM
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she's the cream of the crop. any company would be lucky to have her over some 4.0 loser... ;)

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1 replies
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goodpete
August 5, 2009 3:58 PM
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@dmolavi: My thoughts exactly.

I'm sure any company would be happy to have her, knowing that if they make any mistakes, she will calmly point them out to the company in a mature, adult fashion...

... by suing them.

It makes me want to hire her right away!

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 3:42 PM
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This is what's wrong with people who look at college as nothing but a ticket to better employment. A college degree is worth absolutely nothing to an employer if he or she sees that you've got a poor work ethic and a lack of desire to improve. Who the heck starts looking for a job after graduating college? I started looking in November, before my graduation in May!

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Miraluka
August 5, 2009 3:41 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: You started looking in November of your senior year? By that time, probably half of the kids from my school had secured jobs.

In any case, this girl suing her school needs to grow up...or go back to middle school and learn how to spell...or click \"Spell Check\".

The job of your college career services office is not to FIND you a job, but to help prepare you for the inevitable search, and perhaps facilitate your search. It's on YOU as the upcoming college graduate to secure your interviews.

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aguacarbonica
August 7, 2009 2:29 AM
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@Miraluka:


It depends your field. Nonprofits don't typically start accepting applications and interviewing until February-March. I was stressed out this year because all my engineering and accounting friends had jobs lined up in September and I didn't even have anything to apply to until the second semester.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 5, 2009 6:20 PM
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@Miraluka: Journalism is one in which you can't really just apply for jobs and they'll wait patiently for you to graduate. I found that most people will call you back if they receive your resume around January, but if they get it in November for a current opening that you can't fulfill until May, that's a problem and an interruption in their workflow, and they won't even bother waiting.

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squinko
August 5, 2009 12:29 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: \"This is what's wrong with people who look at college as nothing but a ticket to better employment.\"

To be fair, it's not like there isn't a reason for that belief. From the moment you hit high school, you're told to get into a good college because you'll get more money and have a better life. There are numerous studies showing that people who have Associates make more than people with just a high school diploma, and so on up the line.

There's also the big \"credentialism\" problem with the employers themselves. Many of them would rather see you spent four years of your life at State University than five or six years actually working and getting real experience in the field.

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 6, 2009 3:12 PM
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There's also the big \"credentialism\" problem with the employers themselves. Many of them would rather see you spent four years of your life at State University than five or six years actually working and getting real experience in the field.

@squinko - Coming Soon: When DDoS Attack!: That's true. I don't blame people for going to college just to better their chances at getting a job because that's what everyone tells us to do.

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Coyote
August 4, 2009 9:08 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: I couldn't agree more. I skipped college (well after the 1st semester of partying) and now have a more stable and lucrative job than any of my friends that stuck around for bachelors and even a doctorate. Experience, personality, and work ethic are what's important, not whether you wasted 4~12 years of your life for a piece of paper.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 9:34 PM
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@Coyote: It's funny you agree with me, because I'm a firm proponent for college education, if one has proven to show the mettle for it. This stems from my experience with people who worked half as hard as I did, and thought they could scrape by and get a job afterward. I wanted to tell those people to quit now, grow up, rethink their life path, and then return to college if they felt it was something necessary. College is a great idea - but having the wisdom to use it and do well is even better.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 7:21 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Another big problem. The only people I knew who waited until the last minute or after graduation (up to a few months, even) to find a job were the wealthy kids. If you're not wealthy and you're not hunting for a job (or applying to grad school) by November at the latest (or at least sometime during the first semester of your Senior year) then you are unequivocally STUPID. Yes, stupid. No exceptions

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Englishee Teacher
August 5, 2009 6:40 AM
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@EinhornIsAMan!: I disagree on the \"no exceptions\" part. I studied abroad and ended up adjusting my courses to graduate a semester ahead, so I didn't start looking for a job until my last semester, I wouldn't think that would make me stupid.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 5, 2009 2:01 PM
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@Englishee Teacher: That is obviously an exception. I just was referring to how surprising it is, the way some people approach job hunting, as if a job will magically fall from the sky. Everyone else is furiously interviewing and going to career fairs, but I'm a brilliant but lazy person, it'll work out for me! I just don't understand some people.

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outoftheblew
August 4, 2009 3:53 PM
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She also consistently misspells \"reimbursement\" and \"counselors\". I'm not sure why she's having so much trouble finding a job. I'm having a vision of the judge asking her to introduce her resume into evidence, then correcting all the errors in it, too, and suggesting perhaps the responsibility for her joblessness lies solely with her.

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Amish Undercover
August 5, 2009 12:18 AM
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@outoftheblew: They cannot request a resume that doesn't exist. The college also needs to get that made for her because that is clearly their job.

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Coyote
August 4, 2009 9:11 PM
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@outoftheblew: Chances are the judge will offer her a job position. Poor decision skills, flagrant disregard for status-quo, false sense of entitlement, sue HAPPY. She sounds like she would fit right in with our legal system.

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dohtem
August 4, 2009 4:35 PM
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Let's see her get a job after this kind of publicity.

Who will want to take on someone that has this propensity for frivolous lawsuits?

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5 replies
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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 9:35 PM
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@dohtem: I hear Roy Pearson is available, if someone will hire him.

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MikeM_inMD
August 6, 2009 2:56 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Pearson will be lucky to have a job for himself!

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Coles_Law
August 4, 2009 4:48 PM
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I hope the college countersues for their diploma back.

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2 replies
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raincntry
August 5, 2009 10:47 AM
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@Coles_Law: My thoughts exactly.

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dantsea
August 4, 2009 7:49 PM
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@Coles_Law: You win a shiny Internets for that comment!

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kepler11
August 4, 2009 5:12 PM
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1. It's a stretch to prove that the university is directly responsible for her not getting a job. The university provided its service, which I'm pretty sure is complete in itself (the education) -- not dependent on finding a job afterwards. If she had complained before graduation that the education was shoddy or incomplete, that might be more compelling.

2. second, put aside for the moment that it would be difficult to link the university to her failure to obtain employment. The more basic issue is that her failure to get a job completely depends on the kind of job she's willing to take. Lower your standards, and you're employed. So how is the university responsible for your choice not to take gainful employment? I would like to sue my university, since I'm having trouble getting that Supreme Court justice job I've been hoping for.

3. aside from all that, good luck to this loser trying to find a job in the future. No intelligent employer is going to hire someone who will be forever memorialized for suing their university for their personal failure/stupidity in finding a job.

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Brontide
August 7, 2009 6:47 PM
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@kepler11: The *only* argument that I could see ( which this woman is not making ) would be if the college made specific claims in their advertising and other literature about job prospects and placement that they are not following through on.

I'm not seeing that here, just another desperate American looking for their payday so they can probably blow it on the pseudo-\"American Dream\".

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the_wiggle
August 5, 2009 4:18 AM
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@kepler11: tru nuff. however, just how far does one have to lower one's standards to be survivab'ly employed?

just for arguement's sake.

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midniteslayr
August 5, 2009 12:04 AM
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@kepler11: This is exactly what I noticed about some of the schools I have gone to. A majority of people who go to technical colleges (which I think this person did, based on the information on the site and the type of degree she has) think that the school will do everything for them and they just need to pay the money. This isn't the case. Ever since I left my technical school, I have seen my former classmates take on jobs that were not the type promised by admissions reps, and they thought the school degree would help them obtain a job that they wanted. However, it isn't what you do at the school that makes you get the jobs you want, it is what you do OUTSIDE of the class/school that helps build your experience and you have to utilize what you learn in the class to work on the project outside of the class. The few exceptional students who did this are now living the happy life in a job that they wanted to do.

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Techguy1138
August 4, 2009 5:48 PM
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I actually see a point in this. This may not be the exact case but colleges charge way to much and deliver way to little in terms of job skills.

They sell them selves as the only way forward. 70k is pretty standard for 4 years of college but is an unreasonable burden to repay.

The lawsuit may be frivolous but hopefully it brings to light the fact tuition is far to high for most situations. College is frequently not worth the cost.

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ShariC
August 5, 2009 6:20 AM
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@Techguy1138: Colleges are not job training factories. They're not technical schools, vocational institutions, etc. Colleges are supposed to turn out educated people, not prepare you for a job.

The fact that people can learn skills that help them get jobs is incidental. What you get form college are people who are capable of discipline, goal-setting and completion, and who are more thoughtful and mature than those who did not go to college.

If anyone goes to college for a high-paying job, then they're gone for the wrong reason. They'd be better off training to become electricians or plumbers. Those are jobs where you learn direct skills and are paid well.

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Techguy1138
August 5, 2009 4:35 PM
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@ShariC:
They may not go for a high paying job but are you seriously arguing that college is worth it for most even if the debt load prevents them from making any kind of serious financial headway for a decade?

People mostly go to school to be employable. You can try to say America is full of scholars that seek knowledge no matter what the cost that simply isn't the case. I really wish that was the case.

Colleges sell themselves as the way to a good job. In general you can look at the college education rate and the quality of political discourse and make strong arguments that colleges also fail to turn out well rounded educated people.

For all the man hours and dollars that go into higher education are most people highly educated?

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HogwartsAlum
August 5, 2009 2:26 AM
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@Techguy1138: College teaches you 1)how to finish something; 2)how to organize your time and prioritize and 3)how to find your own information, rather that asking people for it. Those are all valuable skills that I use every day on the job. I might be only a receptionist right now, but I'm grateful I went. Otherwise I might not have had the discipline to write a book while working full-time.

Drinking, partying and sex skills are optional. :)

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FinanceGuru
August 4, 2009 8:52 PM
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@Techguy1138: Sorry, there's no contractual obligation.


Further, university isn't supposed to be a vocational school.


Finally, nobody forced her to go to college and pay tuition. She willingly entered into this transaction. There's no guarantee for anyone that a job will be waiting upon graduation.

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NeverLetMeDown
August 4, 2009 8:37 PM
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@Techguy1138:


So people know, Monroe College isn't exactly a place with leafy quadrangles and students debating the merits of Sartre. It's a very career/employment focused place that advertises heavily on the subway. It's a vocational school. That's not to say that this woman has a claim, though.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 7:03 PM
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@Techguy1138: Not only is it frivolous, but it's no wonder she couldn't she couldn't find a job. Spelled tuition wrong? Jeez, I bet her resume is hee-larrrrious. \"Intellekshool studint with strong back round in manijmint and bisniss administrayshun. Teem playir willing too wurk hard to get the job dun.\"

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oneandone
August 4, 2009 6:44 PM
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@Techguy1138: I wrote a longer comment on this before noticing yours - and then the comment got eaten. I agree - I think colleges try to advertise that degree = better job. I don't think that's true. (But I still think this is quite ridiculous).

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Tux the Penguin
August 4, 2009 6:40 PM
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@Techguy1138: Well, it depends on the degree you get while at college. Stick it out and get a degree in Finance, Accounting, Statistics, Engineering... degrees that lead directly into a field, even better a certification, and its worth it. The old trick I have always said is \"get a degree that's named exactly for the job.\"

But if you go and get a degree in some soft field, you're mostly stuck. A Philosophy degree might be great, but what are you going to do with it? Get your PhD and teach?

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Techguy1138
August 4, 2009 8:47 PM
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@Tux the Penguin:
\"Stick it out and get a degree in Finance, Accounting, Statistics, Engineering... degrees that lead directly into a field, even better a certification, and its worth it.\"

Then why do colleges charge the same for soft degrees that aren't worth the cost? My comment is off topic but it comes down to colleges over charge for education and possibly set their standards to low for a general degree to be of any value. A liberal arts degree should be just as difficult as an engineering degree at the same college to give it value. That is often not the case.

University's offer soft degrees of little value and sell them as high value items. I hope her case brings this to the forefront of peoples minds. 70k of education for a 45k a year job is a really bad deal.

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the_wiggle
August 5, 2009 4:21 AM
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@Techguy1138: yes it is.

college degree has become the high school degree & that's strangling the prospects of employees, students & employers.

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u1itn0w2day
August 5, 2009 5:13 AM
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@the_wiggle: So true . Sometimes I think they let kids become too specialized in high school and college . I think that's one reason why this grad had trouble spelling . The only serious writing she had to do was with her major which has a lingo all it's own . Outside her major she's lost . It's one thing to be specialized but it is another not to be well rounded .


There should be a common knowledge base one should have by the time of graduationg high school or college .


I also agree with the wiggle about planning ahead . NEVER EVER LET AN EMPLOYER lead you to believe that things will be the same for ever ie you'll have job security and pay . Never get comfortable without school and certifications . You will need them someday if not immediately . No boss can guarantee a job even if they own the company . That's what this grad has to realize- it might take time for the degree to pay off .


I've had too many bosses that gave the employees hard times for going to school period . They got upset that the job was not THE object of their affections . Your career is about windows of oppurtunity wether it be applying for a promotion or school . But you must plan ahead so you do have that choice . Or you will be in entry level jobs FOREVER .

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supercereal
August 4, 2009 10:13 PM
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@Techguy1138: Just because one degree program has a lower starting salary than another degree program, it doesn't necessarily make the costs to teach, manage, administer, etc. that degree program any less.

And I may be biased as an engineer, but I don't see a way to physically make a liberal arts degree program as difficult as an engineering curriculum. English will never change, but engineers have to be well rounded and prepared for an ever-changing career field. I'd say the content is inherently more difficult to understand, too.

In short, I don't think that the salary statistics should ever be taken into account for the cost of a degree program. Any given degree is as useful as you make it, taking into account your unique skills and knowledge. If you make yourself stand out by being better than others, then you'll find a job (eventually -- to give up after 3 months is lazy and pathetic) with any degree.

If anything, this case just shows you what I've noticed for awhile -- college kids have an overwhelming sense of entitlement. Now that so many people have them, a four year degree isn't a guaranteed ticket to anything these days. Just like any purchase, one has to weigh the benefits before undertaking a degree, and unfortunately, most kids out of high school don't have that kind of foresight.

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treimel
August 7, 2009 4:42 PM
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@supercereal:


ummm...take the symbolic meta-logic course I took as part of a philosophy degree and get back to me; no undergrad engineering course was that difficult, I assure you. Calculus of variations, org. chem., law school--all way easier.
(By the way--English has always, is now, and will continue to change. Frst time I've heard engineering described as a \"well-rounded,\" degree, too!

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u1itn0w2day
August 7, 2009 5:54 PM
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@treimel: A college graduate no matter what the major should theoretically be more ' well rounded ' than a non college grad . I thought that was the point of requiring a certain number of non major courses .


Part of that well roundedness includes writing skills or habits like make a rough draft , check your work , get used to using spell check or a dictionary because you will be your own grammar & spell checker for what you put on paper including job apps and resumes . Or a civil complaint .

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Techguy1138
August 5, 2009 1:42 AM
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@supercereal: You may be a good engineer but from what I have seen literature and liberal arts studies change more than engineering.
Building codes don't radially change, nor do construction techniques or physics. Some fields change faster than others but that holds pretty steady.

A liberal arts degree could be held to a very high standard. I think it's much easier to understand why a circuit works or doesn't compared to why a book 'works' or doesn't.

The colleges have really bamboozled the government and to some part the loan industry. The college gets it's tuition upfront and forces the loan companies and government to pay up when the degrees the graduate has are financially unenviable. The cost for college in the last 15 years has absolutly skyrocketed not due to an increase in costs but to an increase in available credit.

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ChuckECheese
August 5, 2009 2:11 AM
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@Techguy1138: Based on the fact that my college math books published new editions every 2 semesters, I'd guess that the Pythagorean theorem is highly dynamic.

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ryohazuki222
August 5, 2009 12:11 AM
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@supercereal: \"If anything, this case just shows you what I've noticed for awhile -- college kids have an overwhelming sense of entitlement. Now that so many people have them, a four year degree isn't a guaranteed ticket to anything these days. Just like any purchase, one has to weigh the benefits before undertaking a degree, and unfortunately, most kids out of high school don't have that kind of foresight.\"

That's just it though. So many people have degrees now it's not the same as it used to be. I think undergrad tuition should be lowered in general... I mean, universities are in a business gray area right now. The people don't realize that it's not worth what it used to be worth to have a college degree. The colleges are taking advantage of this.... instead of lowering prices like they should..... they keep going up!!! Despite what anyone says, I believe college has become more of a business institution than an education institution.

I think the whole system needs some regulation and revamping.

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ChuckECheese
August 5, 2009 2:06 AM
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@ryohazuki222: You're hinting at some important things here. There is no education/ training/ workforce policy in the U.S. There's just a crazyquilt of schools, colleges and universities, all making promises they cannot keep, not well synced to the needs of industry. Even if you're smart and do your research, you cannot find out exactly what your fortunes will be upon graduation from college with any given degree. Admissions counselors know they have to lie, professors don't have a clue what's going on in the work world, and if asked, many employees in a given field will be overly optimistic because people don't like to admit they're losers themselves.

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the_wiggle
August 5, 2009 4:39 AM
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@ChuckECheese: i'll admit it. had my chance to go to school, at reasonable cost. didn't.

instead, got married & worked retail/call center thinking nothing would change & i could always go back & for whatever i wanted (genetic engineering focusing on making sure all babies get a properly functional mind & body - even if a 'software' patch needs installing as it were). why hurry?

wrong.

life. does. not. work. that. way. there are only so many years, so much energy & so much money. especially once one has kid(s), a car, a mortgage, a divorce, etc.

it's not a game where you can read a FAQ on which skill sets to front load your points into.

i don't have to like it. i do have to live with it. it's just a damned shame my family must as well.

THAT'S the part that truly sucks.

at least i can be an example of why one MUST plan ahead, not behind!, for my kid.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 9:39 PM
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@Techguy1138: You're seeing it in terms of money. I know that philosophy degrees probably won't bring in the same kind of money that engineering degrees do, but if I suck at engineering and I love philosophy, it's really my prerogative to spend that money and do what I'm good at. Next, you'll say English degrees are useless because hey, who needs literature nowadays? I knew a great deal of science and engineering students who were very bright in their particular concentration, but struggled with English and writing courses precisely because it wasn't something they focused on extensively. It's about what you're good at, and it's not objective. It's not English - bad, Engineering - awesome.

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Techguy1138
August 5, 2009 1:51 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265:

You really shouldn't put words in my mouth. I am not attacking the fields of study, nor the quest for intellectual satisfaction. University's are overcharging for degrees.

Is saddling what could have been a productive and inquisitive member of society with a nearly unimaginable amount of debt before they are 22 doing the student or country a service.

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 4, 2009 7:48 PM
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@Tux the Penguin: Hey man, nothing wrong with wanting to teach.

But I agree that there are degrees where you really need to be able to sell yourself and how your degree relates to the job you're applying for. It's possible but you have to be creative.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 7:06 PM
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@Tux the Penguin: No matter what your degree, there's always sales. Or law school. Graduate school in the social sciences, science, etc-government or military job. Go to a top school or do really really well? Have a good career counseling office? Make some connections at job fairs. Accounting degrees really help narrow the job search, but it's not like non-business/engineering/pre-med students are fucked. They just need to look harder.

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FinanceGuru
August 4, 2009 8:53 PM
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@EinhornIsAMan!: She's not getting into a good law school with that GPA.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 9:04 PM
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@FinanceGuru: But we're really not talking about \"her\" specifically in this thread, just college majors/programs in general

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 9:44 PM
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@EinhornIsAMan!: It still applies. When you go to college, you accept that the reality you craft for yourself may not be the case. A lot of students go to college thinking it'll be so easy, they'll do so much partying, it'll be the best time of their lives - and then they realize that they have 40 pages of reading to do in one night, three papers due in one month, and an essay test for a class they haven't paid attention in. Guess what? Life throws curveballs. It's not anyone else's fault you didn't see the pitcher before getting on the mound. And just because you want things to be easier, and more fun, doesn't mean that they'll be that way. College professors (the ones who really love their work) are not in the business of coddling. They're there to teach and educate and instill wisdom.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 10:18 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: All I'm saying is that I originally thought Tux the Penguin missed the point on two counts: 1) that there are good majors that don't prepare you for a specific job and options besides Business and Engineering and 2) the real problem with this woman who's suing is her lack of initiative and apparent laziness in being a supposed college graduate and still misspelling words on official documents. I really only addressed the former point because I felt that was the more important one, not the one specific to this situation. But it doesn't matter anyway

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 10:14 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: I don't know what the finger-wagging is about, because I'm not disagreeing with you. The post where I said we were speaking in generalities was a response to someone responding to my first post, which itself was making a very similar point as your response to Techguy1138. I agree with you, and your post stands well on its own, I'm just not sure why you addressed it to me.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 7:37 PM
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@EinhornIsAMan!: I think the problem is that this girl thinks she's entitled to an easy road, and when reality slapped her in the face, she decided to get a payout rather than accept reality and work harder. She didn't pick a bad degree, but it's clear from her horrible spelling and seemingly poor work ethic (she needed money, but didn't work during school, or after leaving school with an associates degree) that she didn't actually learn anything.


Monroe College is either graduating students who lack basic spelling skills (and work ethic) or it seems to be okay with letting students show up and do nothing else.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 6:33 PM
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@Techguy1138: Colleges aren't supposed to teach you to get a job, or how to get a job. That's part of the instruction, but not the goal. Colleges are supposed to supply a well-rounded education, and it's up to the learner to make use of the skills he/she learns and apply them. It's not Monroe College's fault that she couldn't find a job. She didn't work during college, even though she needed money, she didn't work while she took a semester off, and she apparently isn't working now (she lists her monthly income as $100, which according to a letter submitted along with the filing, is given to her by her mother). Most people juggle looking for a full-time position in their chosen field with actually working a full-time job at a restaurant, or in a store. It's no one's fault but her own that she's too dim to understand that college isn't a golden ticket.


She's not taking some kind of moral high road here - she just wants money. It's not about proving that college costs too much, it's about her wanting to get money because she's not willing to earn it honestly, like most other people do.

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mamalicious
August 5, 2009 12:00 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Exactly. Colleges are supposed to give you an education - getting a job after you graduate is your responsibility.

Her sense of entitlement is astounding, considering the economy/jobless rate at the moment.

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tbax929
August 4, 2009 6:35 PM
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I don't want to nitpick about her spelling, but since this is education-related, I think it's fair game. If she were to submit a resume to my company with the types of spelling errors in her complaint, she wouldn't even get an interview. Maybe that's part of the problem. Higher education is so watered down that a mere bachelor's degree is not indicative of anything other than the ability to show up for class and pay tuition.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 10:42 PM
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@tbax929: From conversations with one of the HR guys in my office, I'm surprised at how much leeway they get. A couple really DO toss out anything with a single grammatical or spelling error. He seems to have been telling me that it's usually a function of applicant pool and the job. If we're hiring a guy to basically make copies and whatnot, spelling is easier to forgive than for a lawyer-type. By the same token, if you have a very small applicant pool (pretend we're in a different economy for a second), then it's usually not worth it to toss out someone and hire another person who is much less qualified just because the other one had a minor spelling error

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jhuang
August 5, 2009 7:39 PM
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@EinhornIsAMan!: My boss is a complete stickler when it comes to writing. One typo and if he doesn't disregard your application completely, he'll sure as hell point it out to you. (We're currently looking for an intern -- he found a typo in somebody's cover letter today). Spelling, grammar, and general readability matter A LOT when you're applying. It says something about how much effort you are going to put into your employment.

That said, I made a date-related typo on my resume when I applied for this job; I realized it right after I hit \"send.\" Thankfully they never said anything about it.. :)

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 5, 2009 8:55 PM
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@jhuang: That seems to be a general trend. I mean, what does it say about someone when there are typos on their resume and cover letter? It's not like they're turning in a 100 page thesis! But all the same, it is an employer's market now. Back in the day, however, (around 2000), when it was really more of an \"employee's market,\" it really, truly is not worth it to toss out someone with greater qualifications and experience for someone much less qualified with perfect spelling. We're talking applicant pools of 5, 10 people tops.

I am also consistently surprised around the office by the emails I receive. The spelling is usually fine (although words over 3 syllables spelling gets creative). I guess people forget that they can use google to make sure they aren't using an idiom or other figure of speech incorrectly. And there are horrendous syntactical errors. It's really shocking, coming from college graduates, mostly

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sprocket79
August 4, 2009 8:31 PM
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@tbax929: A friend of mine is hiring for a few new grad positions and she is constantly telling me about people with degrees from very good universities that have high GPAs with horrible resumes and cover letters. A lot of them have spelling errors that Word would have picked up without a problem. The worst part is when some people write replies to emails sent to them by the employer in IM speak or without using proper capitalization. What makes people think that's ok?!

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tbax929
August 4, 2009 9:45 PM
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@sprocket79:
It's so bad that my company actually hired me to teach basic grammar classes. I was amazed at how bad some of my colleagues' grammar is. I think at the very least, if you know you have issues with spelling and grammar you should ask someone for help. You can't file a formal complaint about not being able to find a job after college if your complaint is rife with grammatical errors.

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JamieSueAustin
August 4, 2009 6:38 PM
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The lawsuit IS frivolous, however, there is a valid point to be made. Many colleges in my area advertise themselves to potential students as the fast and easy way to a \"new, exciting, great paying career\" (heard that on the radio this morning.) They even make sure to emphasise the fact that in \"as little as 1 class a month you too can be ready for the career you've always dreamed of\" and that \"job placement services will help YOU find the right career!\" If a GOOD student goes to college with the expectation that the degree they obtain will almost garuntee them a job and finds that to be untrue in the marketplace they should have some sort of recourse. Miss C level student is not the right person to champion this of course.

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Miraluka
August 5, 2009 3:48 PM
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@JamieSueAustin: Maybe she should've went to a better school.

From what I've noticed, the schools that are worth a damn don't advertise on the radio or on TV. They get recognition from being good educational institutions, not from traditional advertising. They gain interest from potential students not by pushing ideas that they will provide jobs, but by providing quality of education and opportunities for the future.

In any case, it's quite obvious she didn't work hard enough in school if she had a 2.7 GPA, and also quite obvious she didn't put in the time out of school with internships or other experiences which would help boost her value to potential employers.

Growing up in the US, everyone seems to have a feeling of entitlement - that they deserve everything and anything they want, and that they don't have to work hard to get it.

It's time to grow up, and work for what you want.

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 4, 2009 8:05 PM
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@JamieSueAustin: I went to the link Consumerist had for the school to see if it looks like that type of school but the site doesn't look like it's for a college.

I think maybe the right site for the college is here: [www.monroecollege.edu]

But it doesn't seem like it's one of those \"we promise to get you employed\" schools.

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dantsea
August 4, 2009 7:53 PM
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@JamieSueAustin: Well, beer commercials tell me that I'll have hot babes hanging off me the minute I pop the cap off a bottle. It hasn't happened yet. :)

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 7:17 PM
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@JamieSueAustin: Yeah the problem with these advertisements is that they seem to be trying to sell the idea that you can go to school for a couple of weeks and start making big bucks. No, not at all. But it's not hopeless, of course, they just need to snap to reality and realize that there are a ton of part time community college options/trade schools. They will require work, for a couple of years at least, but they will leave you certified for something. It's not enough to tell kids to \"get a degree.\"

And stop going to the shit private schools advertised on the radio! Just go to your local CC! Chances are it's 100 times better and cheaper!

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 7:12 PM
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@JamieSueAustin: The problem is half-truths are more dangerous than flat out lies. Someone really does need to make the 20 year old kid working at McDonald's and barely scraping by that chances are, by pure numbers, his band probably won't take off, or he probably won't become that rich A-list celebrity in ten years, and that he should probably drag his ass to the local CC, get his GED, and get certified to work in a field where you can actually make a solid living-like working as an undertaker (solid job) or surgical technician, or other things that don't require a whole lot of education or training but can make decent money.
These kids just need to realize that there's no magic bullet. Don't go to that private, no-name school advertised on TV because it had a good commercial. Find your nearest community college, and don't just take classes and get an associate's degree, get CERTIFIED for something. Whether it's a surgical tech or WHATEVER, SOMETHING that will give you a specific skill set and qualify you for a job.

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u1itn0w2day
August 5, 2009 4:57 AM
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@EinhornIsAMan!: Absolutely get CERTIFIED in something . CERTIFIED means not necessarily degreed . A skill set with a certification shows you not only have completed training/got A skill but it shows you are serious about your career or work .


Alot of people snicker and ridicule community college grads or they raz people for taking A course and not a course twards a degree but an incomplete degree can look just as bad . Non credit adult continuing education courses or tech courses can be just as valuable .


And education should be a continuing process . I know people with associate degrees who never took so much as 1 course on their own over a 20 year ' career '. And yet this person considers themselves a professional manager-they can do the job but can't ' proove it ' in the way of related courses and/or certifications . Needless to say in this economy they're SOL . Alot of HRs want people who worked on their ' career ' as much they did on the job .


This is what ticks me about this college grad . They're are people out there with schooling,degrees and years of real life experience that can't find squat .

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 6:58 PM
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@JamieSueAustin: There are a lot of colleges like that, I agree. They make it seem so easy, but it's a shame that people don't use common sense.


I was looking at the Monroe College website, and never once get the idea that this school inferred that college = good job. And nowhere in the career center section did it ever say that they guarantee jobs, or that they find jobs for you - it says, \"The Office of Career Advancement helps with career assessment, resume writing, job search and strategy, employer recruitment and placement, interviewing skills, and other job search guidance.\"


To me, this girl unrealistically expected the college to find her a job, when it was her responsibility all along.

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HogwartsAlum
August 4, 2009 6:48 PM
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What's that saying? Somebody call the WAAAAAH-mbulance!

Please. I have two college degrees and I'm answering phones. She's a greedy bitch. I hope the judge laughs her out of court.

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sponica
August 4, 2009 8:43 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: i'm not alone! not sure if that makes me happy or sad.

on a side note if there's anyone in NH who provides supervision to mental health counselors so they can be licensed....you know where this is going

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Liam Kinkaid
August 4, 2009 7:19 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: To be fair, though, your degrees in Divination and Herbology really aren't in demand at the moment. But I do agree with you...she's in it for the money. Fortunately, she's now tainted her name and I'd be surprised if she was hired anywhere now.

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HogwartsAlum
August 5, 2009 2:20 AM
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@Liam Kinkaid:

:D

I knew I should have majored in Ancient Runes...at least I could be working as a translator.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 7:29 PM
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@Liam Kinkaid: Should've gone with Defense of the Dark Arts. That's where all the money's at right now.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 7:38 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Nah but after Voldemort's defeat the job market for Aurors plummeted. I mean, how many do you really need after the Dark Lord has been defeated? That and all the little Harry Potter wannabes flooding the applicant pools. No, no, stick with Potions. With wizards and witches living longer than ever, all the big elixir companies are hiring left and right.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 7:50 PM
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@EinhornIsAMan!: Potions is so tricky though. All that mixing, and you have to have a kind of finesse. I think Defense of the Dark Arts is still extremely viable from an academic point of view, especially since it's required at Hogwarts anyway.

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EinhornIsAMan!
August 4, 2009 8:08 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: But there are only so many teaching positions available at schools of magic! If Potions is not your strength, I'd suggest a position in the Ministry of Magic; you'll never be rich but the benefits are top notch.

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admiral_stabbin
August 4, 2009 7:04 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: I agree with you 100%. I only hope she gets stuck with a fiduciary penalty for wasting the time of the court, and the institution that gave her a degree.

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dbshaw
August 4, 2009 6:52 PM
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A. It doesn't matter what you \"planned\", that is life. Nobody owes you because your plans don't work out.

B. Recompensed for the \"stress I have been going through looking for a Full Time job on my own.\"?!? That is also called life, so if you want compensation, you'd better hope there is an afterlife... and that they don't check your gpa.

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Frank From Virginia
August 4, 2009 6:52 PM
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Idiot.

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Crabby Cakes
August 4, 2009 6:54 PM
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I am trying to form an intelligent comment on this, but this story makes me see red. I cannot even fathom how this woman graduated with a BA in anything. The spelling! The grammar! She's never had a job and she thinks the college should get one for her after 3 months? THREE MONTHS? GAH! I can't!

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 9:46 PM
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@Crabby Cakes Yeah, I'm glad I wasn't the only one to get mad, either. She makes real college graduates who worked their asses off look bad. I worked really hard for my degree, and I worked really hard to get ahead. And now I have this bozo who didn't understand what she was doing looking for a payout.

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 4, 2009 8:30 PM
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@Crabby Cakes: I'm glad I wasn't the only one who actually got mad reading this.

There's someone over at the forums for customerssuck.com with the user name vacation_rentals_suck. This woman reminds me of the customer he always ends up writing about. VRS has had several people tell him that he has ruined their vacation because he couldn't tell them whether or not a specific restaurant was good.

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meganjanae
August 4, 2009 6:54 PM
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Give me a break - only three months?


I graduated from a four-year private college with a 3.94 GPA almost two years ago and I still can't get a full-time job. I got a BS in Business and no one will even contact me back about a Secretary position...I have to go through a temp agency to get any work at all. Life is hard!

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ludwigk
August 5, 2009 6:20 PM
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@meganjanae: With a degree in business, and applying for secretary positions, your potential employers are probably looking at you as over-qualified. Hiring and training is disruptive and expensive, and a company doesn't want you jumping ship in 6 months for greener pastures when the economy improves and you can land yourself a 'real' job in your field.

Of course, they are also losing out at the prospect of hiring you, then promoting internally to a position more appropriate for your qualifications, but that's neither here nor there, as HR simply doesn't work that way.

If you're applying for relatively entry-level positions, then you might try highlighting your work experience, and indicate that you have a degree with scholastic work geared towards business administration, but without saying you have a B.S. in Business, or leave the degree of entirely.

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HogwartsAlum
August 5, 2009 2:33 AM
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@meganjanae: I hear ya, honey...I have two degrees, in English and criminology, and made the Dean's List twice without even trying.

NO ONE CARES!

Oh well. Keep trying. It took a while but I found something, at least for now. I wish you luck! :)

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balls187
August 4, 2009 11:52 PM
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@dantsea: The law works by reasonable expectations.

Does it seem reasonable to expect to have a better time in the job market after completing a 4-year degree program? I'd say yes. I'm certainly better off for having a 4 year degree.

Does it seem reasonable to expect hot babes after downing a coors? Probably not.

I do think, while this chick is a dingbat, this raises some pretty good questions.

Why are Schools allowed to advertise \"Exciting better paying jobs\" on the radio and TV?

The government is now looking into all the Mortgage companies that are claiming bullshit mortgage rates to refi your house.

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u1itn0w2day
August 5, 2009 12:06 AM
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@balls187: Exactly !


Let's face it with the abundance of advertising and access to money from loans etc I doubt very much these schools would be as big or profitable with students paying out of pocket . I've also read of several conflict of interest cases where schools have been caugth directing students to certain loan companies .


But you also have the debate of exactly how valuable or usefull is college now a days . It can't be that usefull if this graduate didn't learn anything from a macro economics course or even learned how to spell or the importance of checking your work/spelling .


Yeah this grad is niave but these schools aren't exactly out of the business of business either .

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Fuzz
August 4, 2009 6:58 PM
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I say they give her the $70 000, on condition that she also gets a lobotomy to remove the knowledge from her brain. See what she thinks of that deal.

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strouthesm
August 7, 2009 6:34 PM
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@Fuzz: Bravo. What a waste of good oxygen.

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Frank From Virginia
August 4, 2009 7:00 PM
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Not only can she not spell, she can't add.


In the filing she asks for $70,000 for \"tutision\" and $2,000 for stress (of looking for a job 'on her own'), but she adds the two numbers together and comes up with 75,000 for the total.

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Garbanzo
August 4, 2009 8:17 PM
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@Frank From Virginia: I thought the $75k was for the default judgement--what she would get if the defendant didn't bother to answer the lawsuit. I saw that and assumed that the default judgement requested didn't have to equal the amount of the suit. Maybe someone who actually knows something about law can comment.

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HammerMan
August 4, 2009 7:05 PM
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Admitedly, there are glaring errors in her spelling and math. This still does not mean that she does not have a legitmate case:
1) what exactly did the ollege recruiter promise to her for her to sign the admission papers?
2) Exactly how much \"help\" did her college's 'Office for Carreer Development' provide her on finding a job?
3) To how many companies she applied to on her own during the three months after her graduation?

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rpm773
August 5, 2009 12:33 PM
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@HammerMan: I'm with you, partly.

Many universities have placement programs that connect their prospective graduates with potential employers. When I was in school, I wound up with a number of interviews based purely on the fact I was a CS major (ie, I hadn't contacted the companies, and I didn't have a great GPA, yet I had an interview).

If it can be shown that Monroe college promised to offer such a program but has indeed not, there might be some merit to this case. But I think that would take a little more evidence than \"no recruiters called me, so Monroe college isn't holding up its end.\"

But the $2000 in punitive damages? Pffft. She ought to just save a step and sue the recruiters to place her.

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)
August 5, 2009 12:04 AM
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@HammerMan: I sure hope that was sarcasm... thanks for the laugh anyway!

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supercereal
August 4, 2009 10:20 PM
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@HammerMan:

1) what exactly did the ollege recruiter promise to her for her to sign the admission papers?
Regardless of what was promised, one can't realistically expect a job to magically drop in their lap with absolutely no effort. If you're demanding money because the real world is too hard, you have boatloads of issues and you're probably better off living in your parent's basement anyway.
2) Exactly how much \"help\" did her college's 'Office for Carreer Development' provide her on finding a job?
A college isn't obligated to find you a job. You pay to take classes; anything else is nice, but not required on the schools part.
3) To how many companies she applied to on her own during the three months after her graduation?
I don't see how you can use this as a claim for a legit lawsuit. She's too lazy to find a job, so she should sue someone else? Whether she applied to 1 or 1 million companies, the school has no responsibility or expectation to make any company offer her a job.
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tbax929
August 4, 2009 9:49 PM
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@HammerMan:
Most schools offer a promise of a better life after you've graduated; that's why most of us went to college in the first place. However, an intelligent, educated person knows the economy is in the shitter, and good jobs are hard to come by.


I was fortunate because I started my career before I got my degree. Since I already had the job I wanted, I didn't have to find another one after I graduated a few years ago. I'm really glad I did it the way I did, but I feel badly for people who are just starting their careers in this market. I can empathize with them, but I certainly don't think this should be a lawsuit.

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FinanceGuru
August 4, 2009 8:54 PM
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@HammerMan: Pfft.


Even assuming that she was made oral promises by the recruiter for job assistance, that's probably not binding on the university.


This is a meritless suit.

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strandist
August 4, 2009 7:05 PM
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Perhaps the best thing the school can teach her now is how to take responsibility for herself. That's certainly a skill for career advancement. Thus, it clearly falls under the realm of the Office of Career Advancement.

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tbax929
August 4, 2009 9:49 PM
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@strandist:
Personal responsibility??? Who in the world teaches that anymore?

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Frank From Virginia
August 4, 2009 7:09 PM
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The correct link for Monroe College is:


[www.monroecollege.edu]

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 4, 2009 8:07 PM
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@Frank From Virginia: Ah, I should have kept reading.

I went to the other site first and was all, \"Oh G-d, if she's special needs I'm going to feel like shit!\"

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Birki
August 4, 2009 7:10 PM
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I've been job hunting for months after a layoff - I have plenty of experience in my fields and two bachelors degrees. It's the economy right now - so many qualified, experienced people are competing for the same jobs that resumes are often going unseen in anonymous databases and tall piles on some desk somewhere. I actualy just got an interview after several months of canned responses to cover letterss and resumes and following up with employers.


I'd be interested to know if Monroe College promises graduates specific career-placement services. That's the issue here.
I've looked into returning to school for a career change into a field with a good career outlook but in spite of what the school promises as far as landing a job upon graduation, you need to take it with a grain of salt. Tap the career services but be prepared to take a entry-level job in the field to start.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 7:31 PM
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@Birki: From reading the college's website, I don't think it promises anything. From a PR and liability standpoint, you never want to guarantee anything, and it would be ridiculous for Monroe College to guarantee job placement. What it does say is that it will help with job searches, resume writing, give tips on better interviews, etc. but it doesn't promise success in any measure, only an offer of help.

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Spocktober
August 4, 2009 7:14 PM
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The most frustrating thing about this is that it proves that my 4-year degree is worthless.

How in the heck she managed to get a diploma is beyond me. Perhaps colleges should start making sure that their students are actually learning something not to \"guarantee them a job\" but to make sure that their institution doesn't become a laughingstock when their alumni go and pull acts like this.

I'm sure Monroe College loves all the free press they are getting, right?

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preservation
August 4, 2009 7:23 PM
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Actually, she has a point. With a 4 year degree serving as the modern equivalent of a high school diploma, the fact that she was ever issued a degree from that university without the ability to proofread her own correspondence (or allow the word processor to do it for her) is clear proof that her education is not worth her expense.

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Smashville
August 4, 2009 7:32 PM
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I have a degree and half of an MBA...and I'm a receptionist...can I sue for double for my tuistion?


Also...Monroe's admission standards are obviously pretty low.

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sevenwhitehorses
August 4, 2009 7:35 PM
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So many things are just plain wrong here. It is a sad commentary that someone can conclude four years at college and have such appalling grammar let alone spelling. They are doing this individual a favor in keeping the resume from potential employers.

More disappointing yet is the fact that our judicial system does not toss this and other frivolous lawsuits out before they can waste the time of the court.

To often people want to blame and charge others for their shortcomings. And way to often courts allow and award such behaviour. This is why insurance and medical bills become so expensive.

That said, how can this college possibly push someone like this to be hired without damaging the placement offices image and reputation unless it is for a lower skill level job? The individual is either lazy (as exhibited by the lack of checking such an important letter for spelling and grammar) or incompetent.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 7:52 PM
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@sevenwhitehorses: She technically didn't go to four years of college. She got an associates degree and spent one year on her bachelors, and then graduated. A typical associates is about two years, and I'm not sure why she was able to finish her bachelor's in one year, even if all the credits from her associates transferred properly.

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Smashville
August 4, 2009 7:48 PM
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@sevenwhitehorses: She only filed it a week ago and hasn't even paid the filing fees yet. It probably will be thrown out.

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InsertPithyNicknameHere
August 4, 2009 7:53 PM
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@Smashville: Actually, according to the CNN article, she filed under an exemption (a \"poor person order\") that allows filing fees to be waived. So, sadly, they can't toss the suit for that reason. Not to say that the suit shouldn't be tossed in the nearest circular file, but they just have to find a different reason.

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attendance
August 4, 2009 7:38 PM
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I love how she misspells \"counselor\", \"tuition\", and \"reimbursement\" in her complaint. You should see her resume...


Trina Thompson
OBJECTIVE
-9 years after gradyooating from hi-school, 27 year old college grad expects employment from Fortyun 500 company.

EDUMICATION
Monroe College, Bachelor of Seance
-2.7 GPA!
-Nearly perfect attendance!
-Earned degree before i turned 30!

WORK XPERIANCE
Awgust 2006- Septumber 2008
Offis Essistunt
-Compuder werk such as Microsoff Ecksel, Wurd, and Powherpont.
-Answer fones and talk to peeple all the day, everyday i werked they're, siriusly.

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attendance
August 4, 2009 7:40 PM
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I love how she misspells \"counselor\", \"tuition\", and \"reimbursement\" in her complaint. You should see her resume...


Trina Thompson
OBJECTIVE
-9 years after gradyooating from hi-school, 27 year old college grad expects employment from Fortyun 500 company.

EDUMICATION
Monroe College, Bachelor of Seance
-2.7 GPA!
-Nearly perfect attendance!
-Earned degree before i turned 30!

WORK XPERIANCE
Awgust 2006- Septumber 2008
Offis Essistunt
-Compuder werk such as Microsoff Ecksel, Wurd, and Powherpont.
-Answer fones and talk to peeple all the day, everyday i werked they're, siriusly.

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dantsea
August 4, 2009 7:47 PM
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I wonder if she had enough initiative to file her own lawsuit, or if she whined and stomped and cried until mommy and daddy did it for her, just like they've probably done everything else for her.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 4, 2009 7:53 PM
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@dantsea: There doesn't seem to be a dad, and mom seems supportive as she's in debt and presumably didn't do much to encourage her daughter to get a job during college.

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golddog
August 4, 2009 7:54 PM
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Meh...Monroe College. She should've saved herself the $70K and founded her own college, printed her own diploma. That's actually not illegal, and who actually asks in an interview if the school you went to, Trina U., is accredited??

I myself have several Ph.D.'s, J.D.'s issued by GDU. Hasn't gotten me a new job yet though. Her puny bachelor's from Monroe hasn't got a prayer :-)

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bigdandfw
August 4, 2009 7:55 PM
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In my own experience, there does seem to sometimes be some over-promising in terms of career prospects when colleges are in the process or recruiting or keeping students.

I can't recall how many times I was told by various professors or staff people that, once I got my BA, I'd have no trouble landing a job in that field. I should have my pick of jobs, etc. The phrase \"write your own ticket\" came up frequently.

And then I graduated and, despite concerted efforts on my part, no job in my studied field has materialized (and it's now been five years since I graduated). the best I could do was my pre-college job (at no increase in pay) which was only marginally related to what I studied in college.

Not a single person from my graduating class has, so far, landed a job in our studied field. Certainly when we were going through the program, nobody employed by the University ever even hinted that very few or none of us would ever put the things we were learning to actual use in the business world.

It's not the University's fault that the job market is the way it is, but the over-selling of our career prospects before and throughout our tenure at the University just makes being unable to find a job in our field all the more disappointing.

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aguacarbonica
August 7, 2009 2:45 AM
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@bigdandfw:


On the other hand, I went to a school where no one made such promises but a good proportion of the students felt that they were entitled to jobs anyway and that the university failed them when the jobs didn't just fall in their laps. These were the students who had been groomed for the Ivy Tower since birth practically and had never had to deal with real competition or real stakes before.


The rest of us took it as partly a personal reflection if we didn't immediately land jobs. We understood that just getting a degree wasn't enough, and that you had to be at the top of your class, be well-rounded, and exhibit evidence of leadership to get glanced at my a potential employer.


Honestly, I was not aware until this article that there are apparently loads of people who aren't even at amazing schools who expect that completing the bare minimum requirements for their degree program = instant job. She has a point: IF Monroe allows this mentality to pervade its campus, it's failing them for sure.

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morlo
August 4, 2009 9:37 PM
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@bigdandfw: Yeah, I had the same thing happen. So-called advisers are either malicious or living in a fantasy world. Unless it's in engineering (maybe) or pre-med, a BA is really not worth paying money for. Maybe that's why they are basically free in Europe... except their standard degree is more like a US Masters in most countries

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HogwartsAlum
August 5, 2009 2:36 AM
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@morlo: DAMN I should have gone to school in Europe!

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Smashville
August 4, 2009 8:46 PM
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ATTENTION ALL OF THE INTERNETS!


MONROE COLLEGE IS THE REASON FOR THE RECESSION!

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zx2rocker
August 4, 2009 8:47 PM
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You know, she may be on to something. If she wins this, she can sit for a while with the money. Then, anybody who doesn't hire her, she can sue saying it's because they recognized her from the news coverage. She could find herself a career in suing whomever did not create her life's path for her, since that's everyone else's job and all...

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ChuckECheese
August 4, 2009 9:38 PM
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I bet all this publicity helps her land a job. Maybe as a fact-checker for the Rush Limbaugh show.

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elangomatt
August 5, 2009 2:34 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Maybe she is going to be on the next season of \"I'm a celebrity, get me out of here\". The wife of the latest crook IL governor can get on there, so why not her?

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ceez
August 4, 2009 9:48 PM
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it's the colleges fault that the economy is upside down and that no one is hiring.


no money = layoffs.


still no money = no hiring to fill in those positions.


this woman just thinks that she can walk up with her stupid college degree printed on paper towel and all of a suddern people are going to start hiring her? is she what the economy has been waiting for? hire her, and the money will start circulating once more?!?!


get a life lady or is it little whiny b!tchy little girl. everyone is in the same boat, either unemployed, working where they dont belong to make some ends meet, have their hours cut or wondering if today is their last day; knowing that tomorrow they have a slim chance of landing the same job or even the same pay rate.


welcome to america.... where fraudulent lawsuits is the only way to get ahead!


stupid college kids.

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gaywolverine
August 4, 2009 10:01 PM
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Well damn, I paid a lot more than that and I am not working in the same field anymore. The years I wasted in my origianl field I should be compensated because they didnt tell me the work was going to suck, and I would work six 12 hour days. I also want \"pain and suffering\" from having had to listen to this whiney bitch.

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juniper
August 4, 2009 10:10 PM
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I struggle to not \"blame the OP\" here so I'll play a little devil's advocate:

I don't think this lawsuit has merit, but if she has a case, it'll be this part: \"Not providing her with the leads and career advice it promised.\" What was the promise? Was it in writing? Can it be measured? Can she prove that she would not have gone to the school had it not been for that promise? If so, she could in theory claim damages, and the school would have to stop making the promise.

That's all I've got, feel free to flame away.

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HogwartsAlum
August 5, 2009 2:38 AM
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@juniper: No, actually I'm sorry to say, I can see that happening, if there actually was some promise to that effect and it can be proved in court. Please, please tell me there isn't.

Please God!

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polyeaster
August 4, 2009 10:34 PM
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she also misspelled reimbursement

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nuahs79
August 4, 2009 11:11 PM
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Are you serious? I went through 5 years of college to get my BSBA (worked full time so was never a full time student) and there were plenty of people in my class that struggled to find a job after graduation, and that was back in 2004.


Then I recently got through my MBA and there were people in a few of my classes that I questioned if they would ever graduate and if they did would THEY actually be able to find a job? Probably not except at Payless or Mc Donalds.


I don't think the University is at fault because a graduate skated by and received a degree and probably hasn't put forth the effort to really try and find a job. It's a recession, everyone is hurting, and there are millions of people that are probably way more experienced and qualified then this women who aren't able to find jobs either.


I can't recall that when I went to college they guaranteed me a job after graduation. I have a feeling she hasn't found a job because she just isn't qualified for what she wants or she is just plain stupid.


In today's society we always want to sugar coat everything but the reality is she may just be stupid. It may also e because she has no real world work experience because she was on student loans all 4 years she was in school. That isn't the college's fault and they shouldn't be held liable for her inability to find a job.


Quit your crying, suck it, and be a little more humble when looking for your first job!

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AtticusFinchEsq
August 4, 2009 11:31 PM
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I would like to point out that this woman filed this without the assistance of a lawyer. Probably because no lawyer would take her case more so than her not being able to afford one. Couldn't find a job in a deep recession with a 2.7 GPA and a common, non-competitive degree? Shocking.

With her poor work ethic, lack of common sense, and propensity for extremely bad decisions I see a future career as an AIG executive in her future. Or Member of Congress.

I imagine she likely drafted the suit over a nice, hot cup of McD's coffee....

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u1itn0w2day
August 4, 2009 11:38 PM
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Just to play the devil's advocate for a minute here . Most of these schools know that the students are there with getting a higher paying job in mind . These schools don't seem to have trouble making sure you see the financial aide office and placed in a loan , scholarship or grant . Was the same priority put on this person seeing the career/job people .


Nor do schools/colleges seem to have any trouble charging based on the fact that someone else is paying for it (another issue/debate) . But the minute they throw in words and phrases like ' career counseling ' or ' job placement services ' they open themselves up to lawsuits like this AND high expectations by thestudents/graduates . Especially with the prices they charge .


Personally I think this is just another niave college graduate with an unwiley sense of entitlement . What's really scarey is that the spelling mistakeS were not caught . If nothing else she could sue the career people for not advising to watch her spelling . If they missed spelling like that on the resume then THAT'S a lawsuit but not for 70K .

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henrygates
August 5, 2009 12:49 AM
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The only employer who ever asked me what my GPA was...Target. No one else cared.

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kimmer939
August 5, 2009 12:51 AM
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This woman makes me sick. She attended a school that advertises on the subway, has no work experience or internships, pulled a pretty dismal GPA and now expects a six figure salary? A college education is not a ticket to living like the Donald. Like most other things in life, career success is not always about where you went to school, but about the drive and ambition a person possesses. The right school can open doors, but if you're an idiot, as this woman obviously is, opportunities are wasted on you. And for the record, I earned a 3.9 GPA, worked three jobs during school and held internships during the summers. I couldn't find a job in my field after college and ended up working two retail jobs to support myself until I finally snagged an entry-level position, which I was lucky to get. I do not feel sorry for her; she is the poster child for everything that is wrong with college grads these days.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 5, 2009 2:03 AM
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@kimmer939: Well, to be fair, Catholic University, George Mason University and American University all advertise on DC's subway system, and they're all very good universities. It's not their main source of advertisement (word of mouth on being a good university does that enough) but they put the ads on buses and subways to generate some interest for the teen tourists about to apply to colleges.

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kimmer939
August 5, 2009 8:26 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: The difference is that all the universities you named are reputable institutions to begin with, whereas Monroe is commonly referred to as a diploma mill, which is a fitting title considering the fine graduate in question cannot even spell. NYU also advertises on the subway, but it's actually a semi-competitive school. Monroe is the kind of place that will take pretty much anyone, regardless of the skill set they bring to the table, just to get the tuition money. It's hard to take an unestablished school seriously when it's advertised next to ads for impotence...

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1kamaz
August 5, 2009 4:26 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265:


Actually, I recall seeing quite a few NYU ads in the subway as well.


The woman does need to get a grip on reality, though, that's for sure. Nowadays even Ivy League grads are having trouble finding their first job.

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HogwartsAlum
August 5, 2009 2:41 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265: My college choir (first college; not the one I graduated from) sang a joint concert at George Mason U in 1980-hmmrrrmmm. We got a standing ovation. :)

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DaveDidNotPay
August 5, 2009 1:32 AM
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I just deleted a rather verbose, rude, flaming comment since, well, there's really only one word that needs to be said here:

FAIL.

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jonsumer
August 5, 2009 2:41 AM
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When schools advertise programs using statistics indicating what large percentage of their graduates get employed in their chosen field, it could give the wrong idea. Colleges aren't job placement agencies.
I wonder if this incident will spawn a new paragraph on every acceptance letter.

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Irulan
August 5, 2009 5:10 AM
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The real problem is that Monroe College gives diplomas to people who are barely literate. The complainant needs to develop a real work ethic in order to find a job, but if she doesn't have two brain cells to rub together, then it's not her fault that she'll never be qualified for work in a skilled profession. The fault lies with Monroe College for feeding her the lie that their training could both cure her stupidity and provide her employment, and with academia and society in general for promoting the idea that secondary education is necessary for viable employment under any and all circumstances.

What this really does is highlight the fact that academia is just as exploitative as any other market sector. As college enrollment increased over the last forty years, diploma mills began to pop up, and they're as eager to part fools from their money as any major corporation. Even traditional universities have jumped into the game over the last two decades as college tuition has gotten out of control.

Educational access should be available to everyone for personal enrichment, but a college degree should never be a prerequisite for low- or unskilled labor. As other commenters have stated above, that completely dilutes the meaning of degrees earned by competent, motivated students who needed them for actual skill training and certification.

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Carlee
August 5, 2009 5:21 AM
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I never look at 4 year colleges/universities as the type of institution to prepare students for specific careers - unlike DeVry (though I am just assuming based on what I've seen on commercials). How many kids major in psychology or English, only to get a job in something absolutely unrelated?

My major was cultural studies, I'm in finance. My sister was liberal studies, she does accounting. My coworker majored in linguistics (hoping to teach English) and now does HR. My college education did not prepare me for the stuff I do (I got a C in the only accounting class I took) - but while I was in college, I worked part-time, and eventually when I graduated, I was hired full-time there.

I don't know if it's mentioned - did she apply for or qualify for financial aid? Surely, given that she had no other income, she could have applied for financial aid?

I'm surprised when reading cover letters and resumes - I've seen students (applying for student jobs) include skills such as \"instant-messaging\". Really? That's a skill? Another included her 2.0 gpa.

I wonder what this lady's mom thinks about her lawsuit?

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aguacarbonica
August 7, 2009 2:52 AM
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@Carlee:


\"I'm surprised when reading cover letters and resumes - I've seen students (applying for student jobs) include skills such as \"instant-messaging\".\"


To be fair, I've picked up applications that were written by evidently old-timing people who listed \"browsing the Internet\" and \"Google search\" as skills. Even at age 22, I grew up with those things so I always found it hilarious and even frightening that I needed to sell myself based on those \"qualifications.\" Instant messaging is not that far of a stretch, depending on their perception of the organization and their potential boss.

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ngth
August 5, 2009 7:06 AM
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Oh booo hooo... seriously?

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Rachacha
August 5, 2009 11:21 AM
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If he goal was to bury any bad photos or blog postings about her she has succeeded. This girl has more \"Google Juice\" than anyone that I have seen. at least 5 pages of search results, all about her...granted, it is all about how she is suing her college because she can not get a job with a 2.7 GPA, speaks terrible English, and can't spell \"tuition\", \"reimbursement\" or \"counselors\", and believes that the college should do all of the legwork. At least she was smart enough to not hire a lawyer, and she filed a \"poor person order,\" which exempts her from filing fees associated with the lawsuit.


Too bad she can't add...she is suing for 70000 tuition and 2000 for stress, and comes uo with a total of $75,000 in her court filing. On the positive side, her penmanship is beautiful.

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Ford MF
August 5, 2009 3:53 PM
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\"But this strikes me as a very nearly perfect example of what is wrong with the university system. She enrolled on the implicit promise of better employment, performed as was required, and now holds a $70,000 piece of wall decoration. Because not only has her education not provided her with the ends she sought, it has also pretty evidently failed to cultivate the skills it is expressly for. She can't even spell the goddamn word \"tuition.\" And for the privilege she's probably leveraged the next twenty years of her working life to Sallie Mae.\"

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Ford MF
August 5, 2009 3:54 PM
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\"This strikes me as a very nearly perfect example of what is wrong with the university system. She enrolled on the implicit promise of better employment, performed as was required, and now holds a $70,000 piece of wall decoration. Because not only has her education not provided her with the ends she sought, it has also pretty evidently failed to cultivate the skills it is expressly for. She can't even spell the goddamn word \"tuition.\" And for the privilege she's probably leveraged the next twenty years of her working life to Sallie Mae.\"

from [kromelizard.livejournal.com]

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Duckula22
August 5, 2009 6:32 PM
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With her being so litigious about stuff, and if happened to be a hiring manager who also reads the Consumerist, and if I spotted and read this article, there's now way in hell I would call her for an interview. She now looks like a conflictive person.

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Tigerman_McCool
August 5, 2009 7:37 PM
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Can you imagine the precedent this would set if she were awarded anything? Unbelievable.


To paraphrase one of my favorite quotes, \"Oh you think life is hard..Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.\"

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johnfrombrooklyn
August 5, 2009 7:59 PM
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I do think there should be some type of standard rating of universities and colleges as it relates to job placement and later success in life. Also, schools should have to be more transparent. There are thousands of kids who do not have the high school grades to get into any recognized school. So a lot of these smaller private and for-profit schools grab these students knowing they will be able to get loans through either the government or, worse, a private lender that knows the government will guarantee these loans. End result is a student goes into debt $70,000 and comes out completely unprepared to pay it off.

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VouxCroux
August 6, 2009 12:10 AM
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When I worked at a college admission's office we'd give the statistic regarding how many of our recent grads were employed or in grad school, but we said \"within six months.\"

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Psychosocial
August 6, 2009 4:38 PM
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I have a four year university degree going to waste. Welcome to the club.

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projectjulio
August 6, 2009 7:53 PM
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2.7 isn't that bad you elitists. That's a little under a B average...it's like a C++, or a B--...or an \"Almost B.\"

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aguacarbonica
August 7, 2009 2:37 AM
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I wish someone would sue some of these unaccredited vocational schools for their truly misleaidng promises of future employment. This didn't happen to me, but I know that many people get saddled with thousands of dollars worth of loans and then end up with a \"diploma\" instead of a degree from some program that markets itself as an accredited college but can't provide the paper that will get ANYONE a job, even a 4.0.


That is an ACTUAL problem. Many Americans go to high schools that don't bother to explain to their students the difference between credited and unaccredited instutions. Many schools have counselors who basically just go to work and breathe every day. This crazy cow from Monroe is such a distraction but I hope it prompts inquiry into how colleges, especially unaccredited ones are allowed to advertise their degree programs.

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ZukeZuke
August 7, 2009 6:40 AM
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That court filing was worth the price of admission. Not only does she spell \"tuition\" wrong, she misspells \"suing\" and \"reimbursement\" on page 5 and can't sum the default judgment of $72,000 correctly.

I'm thinking she bought her diploma from the back of a comic book...

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FLConsumer
August 7, 2009 1:12 PM
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College is an investment. For some, a bad one. Suck it.

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FLConsumer
August 7, 2009 1:16 PM
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Oh, and for what it's worth, I have taken note of this person's name and college + degree. Consider her blacklisted from any firm I work with. If she's this whiny now, I'd hate to see her when she's suddenly asked to do actual work. Or find something. Like another job.

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icezod
August 7, 2009 9:41 PM
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I like how you guys/gals jump on this girl's GPA. She misspells a word and you get your underpants in a crunch. We don't know her work abilities, personality or social skills.

The school should be responsible for some sort of professional networking--not a silver platter job.

People here tend to think that a student is only a student, a university only provides an education and a company only makes money--no ties to the community or schools.

My point is your humble bastion of academia is more than happy to sell your contact information (address or telephone #) to \"selected companies.\" No opt out is provided. Sleazy credit card companies form \"strong ties\" at the Student Rec Center. Last, Pepsi or Coke enjoy campus exclusives.

Look at it this way...the U.S. has the most educated unemployed workforce in the World! That beats an ignorant, employed worker!

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