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Scuba Steve
August 18, 2009 8:35 PM
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I think the real issue is that only a person under 12 would be that happy at the thought of McDonald's fast food.


If I ever have to eat there, its not a happy time.

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7 replies
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shadydentist
August 19, 2009 3:55 AM
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@Scuba Steve: The vast majority of McDonald's in Asia that I've been to are of surprisingly high quality.

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mikeontheroad
August 19, 2009 12:45 AM
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@Scuba Steve: My job entails a lot of travel in smaller industrial cities in China and trust me, around the 12 week mark in small-city China you would kill for Big Mac and fries. Last weekend I rode a bus for an hour to get to the nearest one. It really is comfort food, makes you feel a little better about being so far from home. I'm not a big fan of McDonald's in the US, but in China it's one of the few things that will help any homesick feelings.

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 8:48 PM
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@Scuba Steve: Surprisingly, the McDonalds menu in India is not just good (!) but actually very yummy (!!!). They also have highly trained employees (!) who are very polite and smart (!!!). They can be found in very good locations (!) and is a place you could actually go for dates (!!!)

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Stephmo
August 18, 2009 9:15 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: My father did like the shrimp burger in Tokyo from McDonalds. Honestly, after you pass so many McDonald in so many days you do start to think, \"maybe I should check it out...\"

Fries were dead on - it was actually comforting. We were having tons and tons of awesome food, but after 10 days, you do want something home-like. Not vaguely home-like, not made to look like it might be home-ish, not you'll-eat-it-after-18-hours-on-a-plane, but now. McD's fries did it.

Of course, there they only come in small size. Excellent.

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Trai_Dep
August 18, 2009 9:13 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: I'm surprised Hindus allow them to exist, frankly.

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thisisasignin
August 19, 2009 5:16 AM
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@Trai_Dep:
They have the Maharaja Mac. A chicken based version of the Big Mac.

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karan1003
August 18, 2009 9:17 PM
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@Trai_Dep: McDonald's sells no beef products in India, and takes pride in that fact. I'm sure plenty of politicos were talking about banning it, and that it wasn't a fully voluntary move, but I'm sure at some point they realized that alienating the 70% of the Indian population that was Hindu was a bad idea.

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dohtem
August 18, 2009 9:09 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: I believe it. American (and to an extent, Western) fare in third world countries is usually seen as exotic.

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 9:16 PM
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@dohtem: hahahahaha

Its not really considered \"exotic\" anymore, but like all cuisines, the Indians have modified it to their tastes, and made it their own. So instead of the meat patties, they have spicy and crunchy potato patties that melt in your mouth. There is a lot less cheese, and a lot of items on the menu are new creations.

Burgers, Hot Dogs, Wraps and Pizza are prettymuch 'staple' diet for todays youth. But all of them taste very different from what we have here. Same goes for chinese food.

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karan1003
August 18, 2009 9:15 PM
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@dohtem: It ain't just that - the places are kept cleaner, the standards are different. McDonald's attracts a different type of customer there. It's not a fast food joint, it's a proper restaurant. They actually don't like american food too much.

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 9:21 PM
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@karan1003: The most hilarious part was when I went back last winter, and found out that Papa Johns is an 'upscale pizza place'. Almost choked on my pani puri when I heard that.

Though to their credit, they do have much bigger cleaner places, with heavy silverware and ceramic plates.

Far cry from my student experiences.

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jamar0303
August 19, 2009 5:11 AM
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@MostlyHarmless: It's like that in China too. I had the same reaction when I went to a Pizza hut in China and it looked like an upscale restaurant (and charged like it too).

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halothane
August 18, 2009 8:40 PM
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@Scuba Steve: Eating McDonalds is always a happy time for ME, but definitely not for those around me who will have to endure the noxious exhaust fumes leaking from my system for the next 3 hours.

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Oranges w/ Cheese hates what Christmas has become
August 18, 2009 8:35 PM
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Meh. Considering that Japan has always been a slightly xenophobic country this isn't really a suprise. But can we americans really complain considering the stereotypes we promote in advertising and media every day? Not really, IMO.

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asherchang2
August 19, 2009 7:42 AM
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@SatanicGuinea: What are you talking about? White people have plenty of institutions in this country that protect their interests.

They have our language on their side. Most of them have grown up speaking Standard American English, the prestige dialect of this country, which is the closest dialect to literary English, which also gives them the favor in our educational institutions.

If they're male, they have the good ol' boys network, and if they're female, although part of an otherly out-group, they've still made more advances towards societal parity than any other minority, as the white male institutions see them as the lesser evil.

Many white people, minus those who've immigrated here in more recent generations, have access to wealth and status which had been denied to the black slaves who built DC and enriched the south, to the 50% of lynching victims who were killed for being too prosperous (and whose property was subsequently seized and given to white people), to the chinese railroad workers (who weren't allowed to hold property), the Japanese during wwii who were forced to sell their businesses for penances before being interred, and Indian indentured servants and the vast swaths of people who were denied immigration to this country simply because they didn't come from West Europe.

Film and television are very much pro-white in this country. Since \"white\" is considered \"neutral\" by most Americans, they comprise a disproportionate amount of roles in television and film. And even when the movie calls for an Asian (The Good Earth, Breakfast At Tiffany's, 21, the upcoming Avatar The Last Airbender movie), they get the role, because execs think that they can't afford to have the audience distracted by any otherness from the actor.

They never have to worry about being identified solely by their race instead of their character and credentials. They never have to worry about racial profiling from cops. They never have to worry about store owners being suspicious of them for no good reason.

I'm sorry if trying to call attention to and dismantle white privilege seems like such a hateful activity propagated by some left wing conspiracy, but what else do you think should be done?

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ShariC
August 19, 2009 5:57 AM
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@Oranges w/ Cheese - now with 50% more kitty!: \"Slightly xenophobic\" is something you'd only call the Japanese if you haven't actually lived in Japan.

The Japanese police give random urinalysis tests to foreigners coming out of clubs. The Japanese police will stop you and request I.D. and search your bag for WWBF (walking while being foreign). Landlords refuse foreign tenants openly and foreign customers are turned away at restaurants, barber shops, hot springs, etc. All of this is done in the open without any shame at all.

As for some of the smart ass comments about \"poor white folks\". Japan has a Caucasian population which is less than 1% of the population and we're treated like second-class citizens. It is possible to be white, be the minority and be discriminated against when living in a country which is predominately non-Caucasian.

Essentially, some people seem to feel that it's okay to be racist as long as the target being discriminated against is white. Doing the same thing to any other ethnic group is wrong though.

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asherchang2
August 19, 2009 7:56 AM
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@ShariC: Officially, discrimination against gaijin is illegal. Same with discriminating against the aboriginal Ainu and people of buraku decent (coming from villages of the lowest caste during the feudal era). However, many Japanese are just as willing to ignore these civil rights issues as some Americans are, complaining about the evils of PC interfering all the way. It's funny how similar our nations are in our very parochial views and systemic discrimination against immigrants. (It's very hard for a foreigner to buy a house or open a bank account in Japan, and they do garner the suspicion and harrasment of police in a disproportionate and unjust manner) just as we put potential immigrants through an endless parade of hurdles just to get in here legally.

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Spero
August 18, 2009 9:16 PM
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@Oranges w/ Cheese - now with 50% more kitty!: I'll tell you what, them Japanese make a good got'damn vidya game, it's hard to stay mad at the lil' buggers.

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 9:44 PM
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@Spero: LOL. Thanks for lightening things up.

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G.O.B.: Come on!
August 18, 2009 8:50 PM
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@Oranges w/ Cheese - now with 50% more kitty!: Not just Japan. South Korea treats foreign English teachers like shit. You're classified as a murderer, drug-addict, rapist, sexual deviant...a criminal in general. Kind of makes you regret not letting the DPRK have their way in the '50s.

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QuantumRiff
August 18, 2009 9:27 PM
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@G.O.B.: Come on!: Yeah, but you should see how the Japanese treat the Koreans.. they treat koreans much worse (but similar in some very disturbing ways) to how Americans treat Mexicans.

The Japanese are a rather conceited bunch, who look down on other races. remember, their emperor came down from the sun. And they (were) a hugely loyal group of warriors, preferring death over dishonor. Ask any WW2 vet what the Japanese did to people that surrendered. They couldn't understand the concept, and treated our soldiers just as bad as they treated the Koreans and Chinese.

While its not nearly that bad anymore, history takes a long, long time, to overcome racism, much of it has to die with the old Generation. Just look at race relations in the US, and how long it took to get any decent fairness.

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coolkiwilivin
August 19, 2009 3:20 PM
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@QuantumRiff: That's bunk. Americans treat Mexicans far better than the Japanese did the Koreans. We are not forcing mexicans to take American names and speak only English. We are not taking mexican women and using them as comfort women. We are not trying to eradicate their culture and replace it with ours. As a Korean American I find that analogy wrong and offensive. The better analogy would be how Mexicans treat illegals they catch in their country. Is the US a perfect country? Of course not but there is a reason why all those mexicans enter our country illegally and do NOT stay in their own country.

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jamar0303
August 21, 2009 6:51 AM
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@coolkiwilivin: Maybe you aren't. But a large part of white America would like to see that happen to the Mexicans if the general tone of the immigration debate is any indication.

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coolkiwilivin
August 21, 2009 7:24 PM
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@jamar0303: That's just hysterical nonsense. My wife who's brother was almost killer by a drunk driver illegal mexican has little sympathy for illegal immigrants but she has NO desire to take over mexico and make them start changing their names and culture. If anything the large part of the debate is NOT don't come but if you come join our society NOT be separate. As an Asian American I've seen the insularity at times of the Asian community but I've also seen how asians have pushed their children to both become a part of the society while at the same time pushing them to retain their ethnic heritage. Again America's treatment of immigrants ain't the greatest but its a LOT better than most places in the world.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 18, 2009 9:31 PM
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@QuantumRiff: We only need to bring up Nanking as an example of how much they hated the Chinese in the past.

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Oranges w/ Cheese hates what Christmas has become
August 18, 2009 10:10 PM
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@Xerloq: Yes. Xenophobia = fear of other peoples or culture. They've been getting much much much much better, but they've always been a Xenophobic country.

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Traveshamockery
August 18, 2009 9:00 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: Perhaps you forgot, MostlyHarmless, but the Japanese Empire attempted to conquer an entire hemisphere of the world, attacked the United States without provocation, and committed some of the worst atrocities in history against Chinese prisoners during World War II.

But by all means, please focus only on the nuclear bombs which ended the war in the Pacific theater and saved one million Allied lives.

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 9:15 PM
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@Traveshamockery: Perhaps you forgot, Traveshamockery, but MostlyHarmless tells a lot of jokes.

By all means, overreact.

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 9:04 PM
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@Traveshamockery: *facepalm*

Its a meme. About the weird fetishes that seem to originate from japan.

And I was not saying that getting nuked is a justification for being xenophobic.

Also, everyone knows that FDR and NWO faked the Pearl Harbor incident.

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outlulz
August 18, 2009 8:40 PM
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@Oranges w/ Cheese - now with 50% more kitty!: I don't see stereotypes in advertising so much anymore. Companies are afraid of minority groups calling for boycotts or the ACLU suing them.

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dadelus
August 18, 2009 9:50 PM
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@outlulz: I'm not sure it's a stereotype because I can't really even figure out what they are supposed to represent, but what's up with the two Asian guys in the new KFC grilled chicken commercials?

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TheObserver
August 18, 2009 9:56 PM
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@dadelus: @Oranges w/ Cheese - now with 50% more kitty!:


Funny how people here seem to be the experts on how Japanese treat other races and whatnot. This is rather tame advertising. Anyone seen the recent KFC grill commercial with two, surprise, stereotypical Japanese sushi chefs?


U.S. media is filled with stereotypes in entertainment. What does this discussion have to do with past war crimes or past anything, lol.

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 9:58 PM
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@TheObserver:
What does this discussion have to do with past war crimes or past anything?

Nothing, afaik. I am infact not even sure what side I am on in this debate, despite my lengthy comments.

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frank64
August 18, 2009 8:47 PM
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@outlulz: Yeah, if a ad made fun of African Americans or Asians, wholly cow they would be crucified. Even fairly good natured kidding has gotten people in trouble. I remember the golfer joking about Tiger Woods picking fried chicken as a dinner.

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coolkiwilivin
August 19, 2009 3:03 PM
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@frank64: Well that's sort of right. I'm an Asian American married to a Caucasian woman and I see this represented NO Where in the media. Asian women are exclusively shown with white men. Heck I can't even remember the last time I've seen an Asian couple that wasn't over 70 on TV. So Asians aren't necessarily being made fun they are just being ignored or marginalized.

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ChuckECheese
August 19, 2009 4:12 PM
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@coolkiwilivin: You know you're right. Whatever happened to Margaret Cho anyway?

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coolkiwilivin
August 19, 2009 6:12 PM
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@ChuckECheese: After dating Quentin Tarantino, she discovered she was a lesbian. You decide if there is a causal relationship. I should say there was one notable exception: Harold and Kumar but it's not like in the first movie it ended with John Cho with Heidi Klum. But hey at least they were the protagonists and they were somewhat cool.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 18, 2009 9:35 PM
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@frank64: Abercrombie and Fitch's \"Two Wongs Make it White\" t-shirt about a Chinese dry cleaner comes to mind. I get why Chinese groups were very offended.

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Preyfar
August 18, 2009 8:38 PM
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\"My name is James, and I'm a PC.\"

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axiom
August 18, 2009 8:39 PM
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I guess Ronald doesn't cut it in Japan anymore

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SteveBobo
August 19, 2009 2:36 AM
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@axiom: My God...can anyone watch more that 1 min of that video?

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golddog
August 19, 2009 2:18 AM
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@axiom: That's Mister Ronald (or Wonald in katakana) to you mister.

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PixelEater
August 18, 2009 8:50 PM
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@axiom: I think you mean Donald, Ronald's Japanese cousin.

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G.O.B.: Come on!
August 18, 2009 8:40 PM
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I await McDonald's ad campaign in the U.S. in which an excessively prostrating Japanese man with bad teeth and broken English (see: \"ronery\") orders a meal before he asks where the used panties and rubber boob vending machines are. But that would be unacceptable.

Quid pro quo is a bitch.

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wardawg
August 19, 2009 3:14 AM
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@G.O.B.: Come on!: Wook! Is Fwee Wiwwi! (It just occurs to me that John Pinette's Asian jokes are a slight voice change from sounding like an Elmer Fudd routine)

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Traveshamockery
August 18, 2009 9:11 PM
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@Traveshamockery: Dang it, how do you insert an image inline?

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2 replies
August 18, 2009 9:22 PM
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@Traveshamockery:
Scroll to the bottom of your page and look for \"Help\". It's as easy as that.
Or *sigh* someone like me will just directly link you to it... [consumerist.com]
:-\\

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Traveshamockery
August 19, 2009 1:26 PM
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@drop *: Thanks for the assistance. I've actually searched the site and Google numerous times and didn't know what to look for. I suppose my late 90's experience with Microsoft \"help\" menus has caused me to permanently ignore them.

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Shadowfire
August 18, 2009 9:00 PM
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@G.O.B.: Come on!: roffle.

\"The impression given is that Caucasians cannot speak Japanese properly, which is simply not true for the vast numbers of non-native (and Japanese-native) foreigners in Japan.\"

That made me laugh, considering Godzirra, ronery, etc.

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Murph1908
August 18, 2009 8:41 PM
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Take a close look at commercials in the USA right now. If there's a character or characters that are goofy, uninformed, clumsy, or just outright stupid, it will be the white guy or white woman every time.

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korybing
August 19, 2009 2:15 PM
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@Murph1908: Don't forget that every commercial for a cleaning product is advertised by women and all commercials for beer are advertised by men (or from the viewpoint of a man).

Or those godawful Hardee's commercials saying that you aren't a man unless you eat 5 pounds of angus beef every day. Or that if you bake delicious biscuits then your friends will make fun of you and call you gay.

Advertising everywhere is usually pretty broad and stupid in order to try to appeal to the largest audience.

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kajillion
August 19, 2009 4:31 AM
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@Murph1908: Black people get pulled over by the police a lot more often than white people, but Chris Rock said I don't dance well, It's not faaaaiiiir!

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eelmonger
August 19, 2009 4:02 AM
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@Murph1908: FACT: All of the \"you know what they say about corn syrup\" people have been white.

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ExtraCelestial
August 19, 2009 12:08 PM
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@eelmonger: And half the time they've been telling it to other white people.


It's a stupid argument. 90% of the people in commericals in general are white (minus the one or two token black/asian/latino/ethnically ambiguous friend) unless it's a product specifically targeted towards a minority. If it's a mostly white cast obviously there are going to be some white people doing stupid/silly things.

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Telekinesis123
August 19, 2009 2:29 AM
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@Murph1908:
No, it will *only* be the guy, they always, always, make the guy the idiot even in radio commercials.

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 19, 2009 12:38 PM
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@Telekinesis123: I've seen ads where it's the white woman that looks silly even when there are guys in the ad.

There was an ad for some fast food joint's chicken strips. It's four people at a table: 3 men 1 woman. All three men say \"Chicken\" in an exaggerated, drawn out, 'OMG we're eating chicken' kind of way. The woman does the same but it ends up sounding more like 'ChickOWN!' and the guys look at her like she's crazy.

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varro
August 18, 2009 10:30 PM
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@Murph1908: Three words cure that: \"BRING BACK URKEL!\"

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SpruceStreetPhil - in a new Pine flavor
August 19, 2009 12:41 AM
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@varro: I personally add \" / \" to the bottom of all my sarcastic comments, as I've seen others do it, just because the internet can be a femaledog in determining if someone is serious or not

(mainly for the fact that half the time there are too many serious crazy people out on the tubes)

Also I think I deserve to be discriminated against, its only fair for what Iiiiii did a century ago.
/

but in all seriousness, I really do believe there should be all encompassing discrimination. And before you get all up in arms about what I just said, read Harrison Bergeron. It's a short story, shouldn't take you too long.

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varro
August 19, 2009 5:43 PM
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@SpruceStreetPhil: I think you might have confused me with someone else - I'm pretty good at detecting snark.

I think we already have a Harrison Bergeron society, only with the terms \"elitist\" from the higher classes (who aren't elite in any sense) and \"faggit\" from the lower classes.

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Traveshamockery
August 18, 2009 9:09 PM
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@Murph1908: A ton of commercials make fathers look like absolute fools too.

Tinkish, get over it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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ExtraCelestial
August 18, 2009 9:13 PM
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@Traveshamockery: Just so we're on the same page, what exactly is it that I'm getting over?

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Traveshamockery
August 18, 2009 9:30 PM
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@TinkishDelight: The notion that white people have had it sooooo good for sooooo long that we ought to just put up with racism, like we're getting what we deserve. It's an immature notion.

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ExtraCelestial
August 18, 2009 10:17 PM
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@Traveshamockery: If you somehow got allll of that out of my two sentence quip it says a lot more about you than it does about me.

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Murph1908
August 18, 2009 9:16 PM
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@TinkishDelight:
Right. I forgot. Racism is allowed against whites because we haven't had our share yet.

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 9:20 PM
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@Murph1908: Wow, I'm starting to think jokes aren't allowed in this thread...

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Murph1908
August 18, 2009 9:27 PM
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@katstermonster:
Sounded pretty serious to be a joke.

Oh, and a joke about whites too. Ironic.

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 9:37 PM
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@Murph1908: I'm pretty sure that was an off-hand and sarcastic remark by TinkishDelight, not meant to put across, as Traveshamockery put it, \"The notion that white people have had it sooooo good for sooooo long that we ought to just put up with racism, like we're getting what we deserve.\" It's sarcasm, ladies and gents.

@tbax929: Phew, good. Because now I'm in trouble, too.

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tbax929
August 18, 2009 9:26 PM
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@katstermonster:
They're allowed. Just be prepared for no one to actually get the joke (which I got, by the way).

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ExtraCelestial
August 18, 2009 8:59 PM
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@Murph1908: Ugh I know!! It's just so damn hard being white in America.

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redskull
August 18, 2009 8:43 PM
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Sucks when the shoe's on the other foot, doesn't it FRANCA?

Considering the negative Asian stereotypes that have been around for decades in the American media, I don't see how FRANCA has much of a leg to stand on. Mr. James seems pretty tame in comparison.

Besides, white people ARE goofy.

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kajillion
August 19, 2009 4:35 AM
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@redskull: FRANKA is a JAPANESE group of Caucasians fighting prejudice in JAPAN this has nothing to do with racism in America.

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redskull
August 19, 2009 1:14 PM
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@kajillion: Yes, I understand that. My point is that Asians living in America might not enjoy being stereotyped. The Caucasians living in Japan are now experiencing the same thing, probably for the first time in their lives, and now understand what it's like.

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RandomZero
August 19, 2009 5:49 PM
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@redskull: Really? The first time in their lives? So the centuries of institutional and cultural xenophobia in Japan are just a huge myth? Great to know!

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jamar0303
August 21, 2009 6:52 AM
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@RandomZero: Well, they (the vast majority, at least) certainly weren't born there!

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Telekinesis123
August 19, 2009 2:35 AM
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@redskull:

Uh, I'm not goofy, maybe you are but I'm not. I'm cool and good looking and stylish. So keep your racist self defeating stereotypes to yourself. I'm proud to be a White man.

Another thing, stop living in the past, if those commercials even existed no one would stand up for them now and they don't exist now, I'm not going to be responsible for the sins of dead men. I'm alive and treat people and all races with respect, I also expect it back.

As White people we've been told to hate ourselves like were born with some sin or something, I say its BS, look at our nations, White people are the minority now do you see that anywhere else in the world? We've taken the world in with open arms, were awesome. In Japan foreigners are very uncommon and that's what makes a campaign like this even more powerful for setting back understanding of other cultures in Japan.

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redkamel
August 19, 2009 6:52 AM
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@Telekinesis123: no one tells you to hate yourself, just be cognizant of the fact of the past and present role of white people in perpetrating systematic racism. Just as all races should be aware of their own roles in perpetrating racism,

By the way Mr. James is hilarious. He's not racist because he doesnt exaggerate any features of white people. In fact, he is an exaggerated tourist. Glasses and a goofy smile are not exclusive to white people. This guy could be any race. Its not like they made him fat, with a cowboy hat, a cell phone, and a giant SUV and giant soda. Now that would be racist.

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TheFlamingoKing
August 18, 2009 10:11 PM
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@redskull: Remember, kids: Equality doesn't mean eliminating stereotypes for all people. Equality means getting revenge for old stereotypes in order to be \"fair\". That's how we'll end racism, by being racist right back!

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alkora
August 18, 2009 9:04 PM
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@redskull: While they existed, we don't really get them anymore.

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 8:44 PM
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From what my friend told me, Japanese and Koreans can out-do Indians in their racism.

That was before he met some local Indians.

Joking aside, even in India, where a LOT (most) of jokes are about racial stereotypes, they do not have this kind of sillyness.

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aguacarbonica
August 18, 2009 8:57 PM
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@MostlyHarmless:


I'm not sure this is racist. It seems more like they are making fun of Americans than white people in general. That doesn't make it better from an offense point of view, but I can see how that undermines the protester's claim that the commercials are setting back Japanese-white relations.

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 9:00 PM
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@aguacarbonica: I am not very familiar with it, but I would suppose that has to do with the history.

Just like in this country even joking about lynching a black guy causes a shitstorm even though the person making the joke did not have the history in mind.

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aguacarbonica
August 18, 2009 9:08 PM
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@MostlyHarmless:


What history? Were white people like forced to go to Japan and put up with bullshit at some point in time I'm not aware of? The stereotype might chagrine, but the lynching think doesn't make a good analogy.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 18, 2009 9:17 PM
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@aguacarbonica: Google Japanese experiments in world war II and find a site with a lot of photos! That'll give you an idea of what some Americans had to go through.

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aguacarbonica
August 18, 2009 9:26 PM
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@MostlyHarmless:


What a worthless reply. I'll take pecan's suggestion below. I haven't yet found anything to dissuade me of my skepticism, but I hardly think whatever you're referring to is common knowledge...

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 9:19 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: Man, people are not loving the jokes about racism today...

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 9:26 PM
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@katstermonster: I know right!!

But then, I am a bit more lax about racist jokes than most people here i suppose. I am used to seeing everyone laugh at jokes involving racial and religious stereotypes even going as far as making fun of their own beliefs. You dont have to actually hate the other person to make fun of them.

And the secret is in laughing with someone, rather than at someone.

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 9:34 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: Yaaaa my family tells racist jokes, and we're some of the most open-minded people I know (believe that, or not...haha). In this case, people are jumping all over jokes ABOUT racist jokes...like seriously? This must be a no-humor zone, but no one informed me...

@aguacarbonica: And maybe Godwin's Law is going to be invoked for this, but for serious, compare this:

[en.wikipedia.org]

to this:

[en.wikipedia.org]

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 9:49 PM
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@katstermonster: Cutting it close there kid...

Though the best part comes when I have to explain to someone why Nazism is not considered to be a big deal in India.

\"You know, that thing was 60 years ago, and at that time we had our own Imperialist oppressive totalitarian regime to deal with.\"

\"But the brits were the good guys!\"

\"Dude... they used to beat up peaceful protesters simply because they refused to eat. And then poured salt water on their wounds.\"

\"But the Nazis killed SIX MILLION JEWS!\"

\"Yeah, the Brits killed 30 million Indians.\"

\"... w-what?\"

\"Yeah, over a period of 100 years. And thats not even counting the people who died in battles.\"

\"But the Nazis killed them in like 6 years.\"

\"So... its okay to kill millions of people as long as you spread it out over a few years?\"

\"No.. I'm... but... well... hmmm...\"

And the best part is, Indians arent even all that psyched about the British either. One of the most recognizable and remembered comedy roles in Indian cinema is that of a strict jailer who takes pride in being an officer in the British Raj. Can you imagine the shit storm that would ensue if someone dressed up as a Nazi Officer here?

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redkamel
August 19, 2009 6:56 AM
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@MostlyHarmless: Seriously, people make a big deal about the Nazis when far far worse has happened. The Nazis were bad for their aggression and actions, but there has been a lot worse that has happened in history. Also see: Native Americans and extermination, eradication from history.

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mazzic1083
August 19, 2009 2:48 PM
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@redkamel: I like how our schools never talk about the american fire bombing of Dresden, Germany. Althought we were not using human slaves in experiments we did basically kill 25,000-150,000 innocent civilian refugees:


wikipedia citation (easiest to locate at this time)


During the final months of World War II Dresden became a safe haven to some 600,000 refugees, including women, children, and wounded soldiers with a total population of 1.2 million. Dresden was attacked seven times between 1944 and 1945, and was completely captured by the Red Army after German capitulation.


The bombing of Dresden by the Royal Air Force and the United States Army Air Force between 13 February and 15 February 1945, remains one of the more controversial Allied actions of the Western European theatre of war. The inner city of Dresden was largely destroyed by 800 RAF and USAAF bombers that let loose 650,000 incendiaries and 8,000lb of high explosives and hundreds of 4,000lb bombs[15] in three waves of attacks - approximately one bomb for every two people. Early reports estimated 150,000 to 250,000 deaths but a recent commissioned report claims 25,000 civilian casualties.[16]

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MostlyHarmless
August 19, 2009 1:26 PM
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@katstermonster: Yeah, looks like we all missed the memo on jokes being banned.

@redkamel: Every big enough group has done bad things to some other big enough group in history. Some of it was far worse than others though.

The Nazis actually managed to concentrate and distill that into pure hatred fueled evil. Hard to beat that.

And no, the Brits did not kill 30 million Indians. I actually never heard that figure in India, as treimel so conveniently assumed. The only time ever that I have heard that was on the daily show, where John Oliver was weaving circles around the teabaggers. Someone needs to pull that foreign object out from where the sun dont shine.

@treimel: So Many Comments, No Clue = Mega Fail.

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treimel
August 19, 2009 2:50 PM
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@MostlyHarmless:


Ah--my video had no sound last night; As Gilda Radner used to say, \"nevermind.\"

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korybing
August 19, 2009 2:26 PM
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It doesn't matter if it's xenophobia or racism, what matters is that there are most likely going to be a lot of japanese-caucasian kids getting tormented because everybody will associate them with this bad American stereotype in these ads. If anything that's at LEAST a little detrimental to the advancement of non-Japanese rights in Japan and doesn't help that much towards the \"stop treating non-Japanese as second-class citizens\" progress.

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treimel
August 19, 2009 2:04 AM
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@MostlyHarmless:

Trouble is, the raj didn't kill 30 million people. Show me a respectable scholar that says that. (And no, hindu nationalists don't count.) That figure is, how you say-- ah yes, \"made up.\"

I don't doubt that Indian people have said that to you, but then, I've met Indian people who were unaware that there is no caste in America, so...

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treimel
August 19, 2009 4:41 AM
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@MostlyHarmless: @MostlyHarmless:

umm... sarcasm, woosh!

On a more serious note, if you're earlier comment about the 30 million was actually sincere, where's the cite? Presumably if the British had committed a genocide approximately five times the sixe of the Nazis, it wouldn't be too much trouble to find a source. (Hint--don't hold your breath while researching no credible scholar supports the notion that the british committed a genocide; the numbers sometimes bandied about tend to include things like famines that are /very/ dubiously attributed to brit policies.)
As to logical argument, you could use an elementary lesson yourself: the person making the extraordinary claim provides the evidence, not the skeptic. Second, the point was, YOU, not I, were using \"a guy told me\" as evidence. The caste thing was precisely to show how silly that is as a standard.
What the hell do those wingnuts have to do with anything? The caste thing was a bit of levity, but I see you're taking this Brit genocide thing seriously. Research some reputable sources--it's up there with the \"faked\" moon-landing and 9/11 skeptics; a few folks say it, but real historians do not.
Two responses, no cite = fail.

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MostlyHarmless
August 19, 2009 3:00 AM
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@treimel: So because there are people in India who do not know that there is no caste system in USA, every Indian person is wrong about everything.

By extension, because Sarah Palin does not know that there are no Death Panels in the House Health Care Bill, all Americans are wrong about everything.

On that impressive show of logic itself, I refuse to try an reason with you. On principle.

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ohnoes
August 18, 2009 11:15 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: Isn't that what \"The Producers\" is about?

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 10:00 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: I didn't go into that comment intending to make a Nazi reference...then I started looking at the list of experiments and went wait, I've read this before. It's terrifyingly similar.

Not that we haven't done some pretty terrible things to prisoners here in the U.S. (Tuskegee), but wow...the Nazis and Japanese set a new standard.

Also, it's really interesting to hear the perspective from a country for whom colonization is actually within recent memory. Granted, 60 years ago isn't in most people's memories, but still, it's closer than 1776.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 18, 2009 10:00 PM
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@MostlyHarmless: You invoked the law! You invoked the law!

Aside from that, can we get around the law if we type it like Brad Pitt pronounces it in Inglorious Basterds? If I type it like \"nahsees\" can I get a pass?

A slightly little known fact is that Stalin killed more people than Hitler.

@aguacarbonica: I think the racial history has a lot to do with World War II. What the Japanese did to America at Pearl Harbor is something that American has not forgotten, and to some degree - has not forgiven. What the Japanese proceeded to do with Unit 731 is also something that has been a source of racial tension. Most importantly, though, is that there's not significant racial history (AFAIK) that is the source of tension between America and Japan, it's that it's happening right now and has been happening ever since the war. While in America, I would like to say that society as a whole has decreased its racism toward Japan and toward Asian people (or at least is more sensitive to its ramifications), Japan treats foreigners like dirt, and there's very little done to fight this in Japan.

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 10:03 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: I have to agree with that last part. I haven't been to Japan and personally witnessed it, but I've heard the anti-foreigner attitude is pervasive and a lot more hostile than you find here in the US. As far as Pearl Harbor and whatnot, I'd say that hostility has faded greatly with successive generations. Like, I can see from an intellectual standpoint why people have a hatred toward the Japanese for that whole deal, but I can't get behind it in a real way. Maybe because it didn't happen during my generation (or even my parents'), who knows.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 18, 2009 10:13 PM
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@katstermonster: I, personally, as an American don't dislike any Japanese people, given that I can't make assumptions about everyone. I know there has to be xenophobic Japanese people, maybe even a majority. However - the Japanese government has made it very clear that they do not see World War II as anything but American aggression, and for what they did to people at Nanking, for the rewards they gave to their experimenters even after the war ended, and for what they refuse to acknowledge even now, that I can take issue with.

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 10:18 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Wow, that's all kinds of interesting. I definitely have major issues with major world powers rewriting history (here's looking at you, China...how IS Tienanmen Square??) in the interest of making themselves feel/look better.

Again...not that we're at ALL innocent. But this takes it to a new level.

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lim
August 19, 2009 3:02 PM
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@katstermonster:Speaking of not being innocent, did anyone else have American History classes in high school that wrote off the deaths related to the colonization of the US in a sentence or two? Has what's being taught been changed in the last decade or so? Along the same lines, is \"World History\" still \"How the Rise of Western Civilization Gave the World America and the Amazing Things Said Country Achieved\"?

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pecan 3.14159265
August 18, 2009 9:44 PM
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@katstermonster: Well, you didn't specifically say it, so you can stave it off. And your Unit 731 link is precisely what I was referring to. I had to do a lot of research on this for a paper I was writing. It was not pleasant, but I'm glad I know about this now. It'll better prepare me for when I do visit Japan and am surrounded by all their history of American aggression.

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aguacarbonica
August 18, 2009 9:44 PM
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@katstermonster:


Okay let me explain something. I know what Unit 731 was. What I am asking is, what is the Japanese-white history that makes this a racially sensitive issue rather than xenophobia. Do the Japanese have the same rocky history with white Brits, for instance? Or is this campaign an attempt to build off of American stereotypes. That is all I want to know.


If there is a racial history that I'm unaware of, and I certainly haven't been able to find anything in the slews of articles about anti-Japanese racism rather than anti-white Japanese racism, then I stand corrected. If there isn't a racial history, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with my original point that this is an awful case of xenophobia. And the protesters would have much more luck arguing it from that perspective.

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 9:55 PM
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@aguacarbonica: It's not a history of anti-white Japanese racism so much as....anti-everyone racism. But, as things usually go, the people getting pissed off are the ones who were targeted.

As far as the American vs. White, I think it's more of an anti-Anglo stereotype. The broken language and the use of first names is common among non-Japanese of many nationalities.

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B
August 18, 2009 8:50 PM
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White people go to McDonalds like this....
Japanese people go to McDonalds like this...

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alkora
August 18, 2009 9:03 PM
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@B: You are quite true B, but that doesn't make it right to show them as idiots on a Nationally televised commercial.

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Radi0logy
August 18, 2009 8:55 PM
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Hey, if the guy they are making fun of doesn't have a problem with their characterization of him, then why should I.

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TheFlamingoKing
August 18, 2009 10:19 PM
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@Radi0logy: Right, because no one has the right to get offended because this guy collecting a paycheck doesn't say anything about the ad campaign providing him said paycheck.

Similarly, since I don't get offended for being called gay, then why should anyone else? So I should be free to use the word as I choose, right?

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Radi0logy
August 18, 2009 10:35 PM
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@TheFlamingoKing: Exactly. Continuing to lump people into groups is just a continuation of segregation. If people would stop referring to others based on their race and sexuality and gender then we can just be people. Its a lot harder to get up in arms about this if you take race out of the equation.

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Rusty-Shackleford
August 18, 2009 8:57 PM
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Domo Arigato Ronald McDonald.

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Rusty-Shackleford
August 18, 2009 8:58 PM
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Is that Bob Odenkirk

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dallasmay
August 18, 2009 8:59 PM
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Yeah, I guess it works out that way. We do the same thing here. I guess over there the shoe is on the other foot.

www.engrish.com

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hungryhomer
August 18, 2009 8:59 PM
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The irony of it all is that this is an American company presenting this image of a typical American to its Japanese customers. I guess no one is above selling away their dignity if it means a better bottom line.

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XianZomby
August 18, 2009 11:48 PM
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... presenting this image of a typical American ...


@hungryhomer: Unless he's Canadian, British, German, South African, Australian, or any of the other countries in the world where there are white people. Of course, if his clothing and his mannerisms are so dead-on that you believe that they are making fun of American whites in particular, then maybe they are on to something with their stereotypes.

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MostlyHarmless
August 18, 2009 9:05 PM
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@hungryhomer: \"no one\" is stretching it very very far.

This is McDonalds we are talking about.

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ubermex
August 18, 2009 8:59 PM
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Carrie is really starting to get on my nerves with her very narrow views of all of her stories. Is there a way to ignore posts by specific authors or do I have to just stop reading the consumerist?

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 19, 2009 12:51 PM
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Is there a way to ignore posts by specific authors or do I have to just stop reading the consumerist?

@ubermex: Don't click on the articles and don't comment on them. You don't have to read every article on Consumerist.

Seriously, an article's page views and comments only make it look popular. Complaints in the comments don't really work unless most of the comments are complaints.

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Parsnip
August 18, 2009 9:56 PM
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@ubermex: Same. Though maybe for different reasons. I don't particularly enjoy opening up my browser to have an employee of the Consumers Union tell me about a \"theater fag\" to be followed with \"I like to make fun of white people.\"

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alkora
August 18, 2009 9:03 PM
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Unfortunately foreigners have been cast in a bad light in Japan for some time. While it doesn't effect everyone it effects enough people. I don't want to go into the underlying foreigner xenophobe that is in Japan, but I do think that this sort of marketing shouldn't happen in international companies.

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LeChiffre
August 24, 2009 8:10 PM
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@alkora: Of course. We've been making fun of Asians, etc. and they make fun of us.

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The Donut Pirate: Now with sprinkles
August 18, 2009 9:04 PM
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I'm white. I don't really give a shit. It's just a stupid ad for a disgusting chain restaurant, why get so worked up over it?

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korybing
August 19, 2009 2:29 PM
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@The Donut Pirate: Tell that to non-japanese kids growing up in Japan who are being made fun of right now and called Mr. James in a derogatory way because this commercial tells kids that it's okay to make fun of foreigners.

Just because it doesn't directly effect you doesn't mean that it doesn't directly effect other people. This is Japan, not America, and white people are a minority and treated very differently there.

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jamar0303
August 21, 2009 6:57 AM
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@korybing: And for that I direct you to the comment immediately above yours.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 18, 2009 9:34 PM
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@The Donut Pirate: It's because the Japanese are just a touch xenophobic, and it's not just white people. Apparently they dislike Koreans and Chinese, too. So while we may laugh about it here, and be all, \"har har white people\" - over there, someone may take it seriously. And there won't be many people to convince them otherwise.

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ZManGT
August 19, 2009 2:14 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: If you do go to Japan, go with an open mind and you will enjoy it. I was stationed over there for 2 years and I've never met more friendly people. Everyone was very polite and quiet. Actually that was the hardest thing for me to get used to, I'm 6'3 and 230 so I'm already a little imposing and I felt like every time I talked I was much louder than them.

Interesting experience and I would not trade it for the world.

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aguacarbonica
August 18, 2009 9:47 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265 (now with star power):


So while we may laugh about it here, and be all, \"har har white people\" - over there, someone may take it seriously. And there won't be many people to convince them otherwise.


This reminds me of trying to explain to a Moroccan friend of mine that the \"monkies\" on her snackfoods were actually racist caricatures of black people. I guess it's good that she didn't see the connection, but it's disturbing that children eating those foods might draw their own connections between those images and people of African descent that they encountered.

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redkamel
August 19, 2009 7:03 AM
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@aguacarbonica: I grew up with those carictures, and I alway saw them more as a symbolic cartoon than an actual attempt at reality. Kind of like how people also have perfectly round heads in childrens books.

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Traveshamockery
August 18, 2009 9:15 PM
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@The Donut Pirate: It's racist. But most people are cool with that when it affects a majority race.

Flip this into a goofy Japanese guy trying to order at an American McDonalds, while the commercial plays of a bunch of negative stereotypes. Still okay with it?

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redkamel
August 19, 2009 7:11 AM
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@Traveshamockery: since when is a goofy white tourist at an American restaurant in a foreign country racist? try the actual flip: an wacky asian guy at an asian-american restaurant as the mascot for new foods. Still think thats racist? cause I don't. I get Italian chefs selling me pasta \"like mama used to make\" and Mexican guys selling me Mexican food on the radio and on TV. To be honest, I think the attempts to make them real are even worse than the carictures. At least the caricuture is in good fun, while the \"serious\" attempt is what people really believe.

I watched the commercial, I dont speak Japanese, but I thought it was funny.

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valleyval
August 18, 2009 9:10 PM
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@The Donut Pirate: But this is McDonald's we're talking about here! If I wanted offensive advertising I'd watch a Burger King commercial.

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alkora
August 18, 2009 9:10 PM
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@The Donut Pirate: While it is a disgusting chain, it is a national chain with an \"American\" image over there. If they are doing these style of commercials they are basically saying, \"We're an American company making Americans look stupid this way, and its OK!\" Then other companies will have free reign to do the same thing. And in general, the image of foreigners in Japan doesn't improve.

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dosdelon
August 18, 2009 9:06 PM
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I was thinking that you could also put a caption on him for the 40 year old virgin as well...

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HeatherLynn30
August 18, 2009 9:09 PM
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Eh, I can think of lots more to get offended by besides this. Plus, white people are hilarious. Haven't you seen \"Father of the Bride Part Two\"?

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DrGirlfriend
August 18, 2009 11:16 PM
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@HeatherLynn30: Martin Short gives a landmark comedic performance not seen since the days of Lenny Bruce or Richard Pryor.

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TheHamBeast
August 18, 2009 9:09 PM
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What! Hasn't FRANCA ever played Street Fighter II? In it the Japanese make Americans look AWESOME!

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tinky XIII
August 18, 2009 10:44 PM
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@TheHamBeast: And they took that all back with Street Fighter IV.

I'm looking at you, Rufus.

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redfox1
August 18, 2009 9:10 PM
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Well I've seen \"Gung Ho\", starring Michael Keaton...and turnabout is fair play.

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jscott73
August 18, 2009 9:10 PM
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What I find the most disturbing about this is the silk tie with a golf shirt...I mean seriously, I am a white guy and I would never wear that to mcdonalds, only to my kids recital, by the time I got to mcdonalds I would have at least taken off the tie.

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aguacarbonica
August 18, 2009 11:28 PM
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@jscott73:


Yeah you need room for when that sodium expands your neck.

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Trai_Dep
August 18, 2009 9:12 PM
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Well, they could have had a 250lb, beer-gutted Confederate-flagged, meth-mouthed NASCAR Larry, belching before waddling to his SUV. So, count your blessings, 'Merica!

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FooSchnickens - Full of SCAR
August 18, 2009 9:13 PM
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Because stereotypes are funny! (until they apply to you)

I find it hilarious. FRANCA can go jump in Tokyo Bay.

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TCama
August 18, 2009 9:14 PM
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All this does is it makes it so that ignorant Americans can make fun of Japanese people, then when someone says something about it, point to these ads and say \"See?! I'm just doing exactly what they're doing!\" and feel all superior and white and stuff.

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Silica
August 18, 2009 9:21 PM
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We live in a dichotomous society. What bloggist would begin their commentary with \"I like to make fun of black people\"? Or \"I like to make fun of muslims\"? The commenters would label the bloggist with the \"R\" word immediately. Yet there is no hesitation on Carrie's part to make the same statement about white people. Personally, I think it's funny. I think the ability to laugh at oneself is healthy. More people should engage in it.

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TCama
August 18, 2009 9:29 PM
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@Silica: \"The 'R' word\"? You can't even say \"racist\"?

And just because you can laugh at it doesn't mean everyone can.

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goodfellow_puck
August 18, 2009 9:22 PM
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As others have mentioned, Japanese society has, and continues to be, very xenophobic. I don't think a lot of Westerners understand the lengths to which the society promotes racism towards \"outsiders.\" For example, it can be hard to find a place to live as many apartments do not even allow \"foreigners\" or foreign-looking natives. All \"foreigners\" and not just \"white.\"

I too wish that Carrie would do a little more digging, or a little less passing judgement on topics she's not familiar with.

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The_Red_Monkey
August 19, 2009 4:24 PM
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@goodfellow_puck: So that makes it ok? So by your logic just by being a xenophobic country that makes it ok for an American company to behave it that manner? So did you hear that south? Its ok to be racist and xenophobic or does this only apply if you are nonwhite?

So if people in the US are racist it permits other to be racist, that's what I get from these comments in this thread. How can you say that racism needs to stop but then condone it from another group?

Japan does not have birth right citizenship by the way.

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goodfellow_puck
August 19, 2009 7:22 PM
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@The_Red_Monkey: Are you talking to me or to the OP? 'Cause if you're speaking to me you make no sense. I'm not condoning racism from anyone.

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Parsnip
August 18, 2009 9:57 PM
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@goodfellow_puck: But... she likes to make fun of white people!

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pecan 3.14159265
August 18, 2009 9:48 PM
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@goodfellow_puck: They've even started to ship away native Brazilians who are of mixed heritage. People who were born there and spent their entire life there, the Japanese government just wants to ship them back to Brazil because they won't acknowledge them as actual Japanese citizens and are instead, putting them with the foreign laborers who came from Brazil long ago at the insistence of the Japanese.

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crunchberries
August 19, 2009 1:34 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: And let's not forget the case of the Calderon family back in May. The Calderons were a Filipino family who came to Japan illegally and had a daughter who was born in the country. However, instead of acknowledging the daughter as a citizen and allowing her to stay in the country of her birth with legal relatives who also lived there, the Japanese government chose to deport her along with her parents.

@goodfellow_puck: The fact that most of the comments here either don't get how xenophobic Japanese people can be in Japan or try to diminish the situation boggles my mind. I just don't get it.

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oneandone
August 18, 2009 9:27 PM
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I always thought the Verizon guy was Hispanic.


[espanol.vzw.com]


I've mostly seen him on billboards/ads with Spanish text, and haven't really thought of him as 'white'. Maybe it's just the red shirt that makes these 2 look similar?

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pecan 3.14159265
August 18, 2009 10:05 PM
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@oneandone: Are you from California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas or southern Florida? The Verizon guy appears in Spanish ads on TV too - but it's Spanish TV. It's possible you think he seems Hispanic because he's actually of Italian descent. His name is Paul Marcarelli. [en.wikipedia.org]

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oneandone
August 18, 2009 10:24 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: NJ & DC - but in heavily Spanish-speaking neighborhoods. My neighbors are all from Ecuador & Peru. I think the Spanish text built a 'Hispanic' context around him for me. When I saw him in English commercials, it surprised me. OTOH, he seems like he can 'pass' for a lot of ethnicities, so maybe Verizon was very clever with their choice. He's like a racial chameleon!


I fear I am going to wade into trouble with my cavalier use of 'race' and 'ethnicity' and even 'Hispanic'. I know that race and ethnicity are not the same thing & not interchangeable. And maybe there are some Hispanic people who consider themselves White? Or maybe speaking Spanish is not enough to make one Hispanic?


I think I am confusing myself. Time to head home!

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DrGirlfriend
August 18, 2009 11:21 PM
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@sixseeds: With that you aren't endorsing it, but rather rationalizing it.

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GMFish
August 18, 2009 9:29 PM
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We're talking about a country were it's quite common to discriminate against people based solely on their blood type. And let's not forget that even people who were born in Japan and whose family have lived there for four+ generations are still considered foreigners and still have to carry alien cards.

People consider the US a racist country. Those people have never been to Japan.

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varro
August 18, 2009 10:52 PM
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@GMFish: Not to mention the burakumin, which I gather to Japan's version of Indian dalits or Appalachians in the U.S.

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BytheSea
August 18, 2009 10:11 PM
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@GMFish: What IS it with the blood type thing? It's always in the characters' little bios in manga. Is that new or traditional? What's a good blood type and what's a bad one?

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Katxyz
August 19, 2009 7:54 PM
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@BytheSea:

Some Japanese and Korean people believe that blood type is a way of determining personality traits, temperament and compatibility, similar to astrology. I haven't heard of it as being a discriminatory thing before.

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goodfellow_puck
August 19, 2009 7:28 PM
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@BytheSea: It's currently used like astrology. Blood types determine personality types. When it was \"developed\" it was used for racial \"science\":
[en.wikipedia.org]

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MrJames
August 18, 2009 9:36 PM
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Well, I take this matter very personally and I think it's insulting.

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BytheSea
August 18, 2009 9:44 PM
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White people in Japanese movies are always depicted as bungling eejits. It's like a minstrel show. Meanwhile in anime, when they try to speak English? Hilariously bad. Sometimes it's literal moaning. American movies nowadays try to get the language right to be polite. Modern Japan is a far more racist country than America.

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SatanicGuinea
August 18, 2009 9:45 PM
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White bashing is the \"in\" thing these days.

Whites don't have an ethnic lobby like the NAACP or ADL to defend themselves and any time whites try to act as a group for their self-interests, they get called racists.

As evidenced by the responses in here, most whites are \"cool\" with being bashed and vilified in the media, perhaps because of the decades of hate-whitey/white guilt education and propaganda in the media has been internalized.

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superberg
August 19, 2009 4:20 AM
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@SatanicGuinea: Oh, if only there were an organization to proteKt us poor white folks! I Kan't tell you how much raKism I deal with every day!

Okay, that last K was a cheap one, but I'm tired.

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katstermonster
August 18, 2009 9:50 PM
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@SatanicGuinea: I'm white, and I'm not cool with being bashed. But seriously, they're not taking away my rights, I find it a little hard to get worked up about.

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loueloui
August 18, 2009 9:45 PM
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Great, a Japanese video making fun of white people.


I guess it's only fair, but i think the joke FDR played on them was a lot funnier.

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WEGGLES90
August 18, 2009 9:46 PM
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Is this how Blacks feel when white people say nigger?

I feel awful.

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Vandelay Import Export
August 18, 2009 9:47 PM
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The Japanese have a reputation for not liking foreigners, save for the blonde female variety.

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Rey
August 18, 2009 9:52 PM
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White is the new gay.

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H3ion
August 18, 2009 9:55 PM
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That's why Toyota has a sale every December 7.

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sixseeds
August 18, 2009 9:58 PM
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Not to endorse xenophobia, but it's important to remember that Japan does not (to my knowledge) have a sign out front that reads \"Give me your hungry, your poor,\" etc. Their discrimination may be unwholesome but it's not hypocritical in the way a similar ad would be in the States, since we portray ourselves as the big equal opportunity melting pot and all.

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goodfellow_puck
August 19, 2009 7:32 PM
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@sixseeds: LOL. Got that, folks? Next time you start a country make sure you put a SIGN out front that states what your moral code is. \"REPUBLIC of THUNDERDOME: DON'T BLAME US WHEN MASTERBLASTER GETS YOU.\" ;)

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AndroidHumanoid
August 18, 2009 10:05 PM
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Japanese McDonalds taste 1000x better than American McDonalds. Make fun of whiteys all you want! I'll still eat the junk! Their A&W restaraunts taste good too. The ones in the US are really gross.

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grebby
August 18, 2009 10:20 PM
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It's always amazed me how much Japan (and other countries) embrace American culture yet have such disdain for Americans. Just like us and Mexico, I suppose. We love our burritos, margaritas and Cinco de Mayo, but look down our noses at actual Mexicans.

P.S. I am aware that the burrito is an American invention.

P.P.S. I would love to see the Tamago Double Mac and Chicken Tatsuta at American McDonald's.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 19, 2009 2:03 AM
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@grebby: We don't dislike Mexicans, we dislike the ones who cross our borders illegally, the ones who destroy our cities by trafficking drugs and prostitutes and killing people through gang violence. There's a difference.

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goodfellow_puck
August 19, 2009 7:35 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: People do not MAKE that difference though. They just see brown skin and ASSUME you don't belong. Nevermind Mexico used to own half the current US and many Hispanics have generations going back further than others.

Don't even get me started on all the racist Mexican jokes that are \"acceptable\" because they're \"true.\" :/

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jamar0303
August 19, 2009 6:03 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265: What difference? There are more than a few Japanese that think that non-Japanese arriving on their shores are out to do one or more of those things you attribute to illegal Mexicans. And unfortunately, there are more than a few non-Japanese people who do exactly that. Not too dissimilar from America's situation regarding Mexico.

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admiral_stabbin
August 18, 2009 10:28 PM
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@grebby: Wait a second...we're supposed to have disdain for Mexico? What am I supposed to do with my feelings for Canada then, eh?

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varro
August 18, 2009 10:25 PM
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\"It's true...it's true! We are *so* lame....\"

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henrygates
August 18, 2009 10:27 PM
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I think it's amusing. Not accurate though. They should have commercials with prim and proper Japanese people wearing suits eating their mcmeals in quiet efficiency when a fat woman walks in with 5 screaming fat kids behind her while Mr James sits shamefully in the car, and then she pays with food stamps.

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varro
August 18, 2009 11:01 PM
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@henrygates: Or they bring in the kids - two in a battle stroller, order giant meals with Diet Coke, and the disaffected teenager throws their food away because they're vegan.

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silver-bolt
August 18, 2009 10:38 PM
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Anyone else realize that James is also a surname?

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 19, 2009 12:55 PM
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@silver-bolt: That was my first thought when I reached that part of the complaint. After reading some of the comments I think that they did that on purpose.

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tinky XIII
August 18, 2009 10:56 PM
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@silver-bolt: That's what I was thinking. It's probably a very white (or American) sounding name that can be used either way, so it's as ambiguous as possible.

Don't forget the cultural differences, either. Lots of comic artists in Japan still draw racial stereotypes that most in this country would find offensive, but it's perfectly fine there.

At least we have the King in America. I'm sure if the commercials were produced in Japan, tentacles would be heavily involved.

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sburnap42
August 18, 2009 11:08 PM
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A lot of the complaints are stupid. For instance, of course \"James\" is in Katakana, the script mostly used for foreign loan words...\"James\" is not a Japanese name.

Plus making fun of foreigner's language skills is a game shared by all cultures. Engrish.com anyone?

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yagisencho
August 19, 2009 1:20 AM
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@sburnap42:


The irony here is that the fumbling Japanese that they're using is essentially how a Japanese high schooler sounds when trying to speak English. Those aren't the mistakes that a native English speaker typically makes when trying to speak or write Japanese. But I can see how this 'sells' it better in Japan.

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icezod
August 18, 2009 11:11 PM
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You always need a whipping boy and the white man fits the bill perfectly.

Take the AT&T commercial that portrays the stupid, poor white man--compared to the intelligent, rational Asian. The Fiber One commercial shows an intelligent Indian manager and a white man putting on a fake moustache--acting like a fool.

Racism in commercials is hard to detect because it is subtle and integrated with a facade of humor. However, these commercials have a lasting impact--long after after the $19.99 mobile phone plan expires and the yogurt fiber is crapped out.

An adult realizes that this is a commercial, but children cannot.

The Calgon commercial \"Ancient Chinese secret, huh?\" depicted a Chinese husband being sneaky about laundry detergents. The children that grew up with that commercial will, 9 out of 10 times, identify a Chinese-American as a \"sneaky\" person.

There are plenty of psychology studies on this. What starts as one commercial can quickly become a stereotype.

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Grrrrrrr, now with two buns made of bacon.
August 18, 2009 11:18 PM
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Not in the best of taste, but if we can dish it out (racial stereotyping), we should be able to take it.

Personally, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

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crunchberries
August 19, 2009 1:37 PM
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@☠Grяrяrяrяrя sings the doom song now!: Well, duh. You live in the U.S. and you can afford to not give a damn. Foreigners in Japan (including white people) don't have that kind of comfort.

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 19, 2009 12:58 PM
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...if we can dish it out (racial stereotyping), we should be able to take it.

@☠Grяrяrяrяrя sings the doom song now!: I don't think a white person living in Japan is going to get away with dishing out any racial stereotypes about Japanese people.

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morlo
August 18, 2009 11:29 PM
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@☠Grяrяrяrяrя sings the doom song now!: I don't know, this guy seems to fit the Western stereotype of the Japanese more than anything. It could be subversive, but really I think McDonald's is being doubly insulting to the great people of Japan

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BeardPapasCremePuffs
August 18, 2009 11:20 PM
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Maybe he's supposed to be one of those military retirees that go back to wherever he once was stationed and considers himself an expert of that particular country's culture. In some Asian countries there are bunch of those grandpas just wandering around, looking for the ladies to do it, and feeling young and wanted again. I've seen it and they're sweaty and sad-looking.

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nstonep
August 18, 2009 11:50 PM
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Hilarious. Do I get offended when Mercedes has an ad featuring santa claus making German Automobiles? No wait...that's a different situation.

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Moosenogger
August 19, 2009 12:15 AM
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I'm honestly not surprised. There are many countries and citizens around the world who fear \"foreigners\" and anything that's perceived to be different from them. (Many an American falls into that category, actually.)

So, playing on their fear/hatred/dislike of foreigners is perceived as a great advertisement strategy. \"These burgers are so good, even this loony foreigner loves them! COME ON IN AND TRY EM OUT!\"

Of course, as many people have already said, it's harder to have these \"Look at the silly foreigner!\" ads in America since there are groups on the lookout for any perceived racism/sexism/other-isms in ad campaigns.

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goodfellow_puck
August 19, 2009 7:38 PM
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@Moosenogger: There shouldn't have to be \"groups\" looking out for anything. We should all have the decency not to support those kind of things.

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Duckula22
August 19, 2009 12:17 AM
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We can all make fun of someone, I'm south american, photo, photo, photo.

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JulesNoctambule
August 19, 2009 1:25 AM
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I'm reminded of the experience of a friend of mine who used to live in Japan. She was born in America to an Italian mother and a Cuban father; she is strikingly lovely and also quite tall. In Japan, people on the street would stare and point at her (and over there, that is A Big Deal).

People would ask her where she was from, and when she said America they would insist that she had to be making that up, because she didn't look the way they believe Americans look and so she had to be from a different country. People actually said that to her, sincere as could be.

At first it hurt, but soon she figured out that looming over them and scowling shut 'em up pretty quickly. It's easy to intimidate when you're almost a foot taller than someone, I suppose!

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Clerkerist
August 19, 2009 1:27 AM
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The only thing about this story that deeply concerns me is that the space it is taking up on the web may be cutting into my bandwidth. Has anyone else noticed that Japanese mockery is slowing down their DSL?

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PsiCop
August 19, 2009 2:02 AM
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Using stereotypes in advertising is common. In Japan, foreigners are ... shall we say ... not very well-regarded. (I expect it's \"urban legend,\" but I've been told that one of the worst insults in the Japanese language, is their word for \"foreigner.\") Hence, ads in Japan play to that.

In the US, half the commercials feature that common stereotype, the \"stupid father/husband.\" Men in American commercials are almost uniformly dumber than bricks, and often childish too. The most obvious recent example is the one where the guy throws a tantrum over a grinder, and it includes his own child admonishing him to grow up.

Yeah, makes me want to run out and devour one.

Not!

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pecan 3.14159265
August 19, 2009 2:18 AM
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@PsiCop: No, it's not urban legend. Japan really doesn't like foreigners.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Even though they passed formal speech banning discrimination, there's no body that enforces the laws. Their permanent residents aren't allowed to vote because they're not Japanese. Foreign professors are rarely given tenure, even if they teach on the same level as their Japanese counterparts. In the 1990s, things got so heated between Koreans and the Japanese that some Japanese assaulted a group of children, and Chinese have been stereotyped as committing more crime. Oh yeah, they've been accused of disliking Jewish people, too.

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jamar0303
August 22, 2009 3:50 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: And on the other hand, you have Catherine St-Onge, the Quebecois girl who became a minor celebrity in Japan.

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Moark
August 19, 2009 2:35 AM
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\"1) The character speaks broken accented Japanese (using the katakana script, one used for foreign loanwords). The impression given is that Caucasians cannot speak Japanese properly, which is simply not true for the vast numbers of non-native (and Japanese-native) foreigners in Japan.
2) The character is called \"Mr. James\" (again, in katakana), promoting the stereotype that foreigners must be called by their first names only (standard Japanese etiquette demands that adults be called \"last name plus -san\"), undoing progress we have made for equal treatment under Japanese societal rules.
3) The image used, of a clumsy sycophantic \"nerd\" for this Caucasian customer, is embarrassing to Caucasians who will have to live in Japan under this image.\"

This is kind of lame, which I'm sure is coming from someone who has never lived in Japan. First of all, number 1 is incorrect. There are TONS, I would say atleast over half the population of white foreigners in Japan CANNOT speak Japanese. Now, the chinese, Koreans, they are forced to learn Japanese to become a part of the Japanese culture. White foreigners however often come for a set amount of time and leave afterwards, so they feel they dont have to learn Japanese.

Must I remind you that Asians in American film and media are often portrayed with HUGE accents and dorky clothing.

2. Your reading into this too much. Never in my life have I ran into a Japanese person who called a white foreigner by their first name- unless of course they were friends.

3. Portrayed as a nerd? Um, how about Hiro on Heroes?

And I'm suppose to believe that American advertisements are politically correct all the time? Six Flags great america's \"More flags more fun\" campaign with the asian guy comes to mind.

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hinaku
August 19, 2009 2:47 AM
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This all feels a little pot-meet-kettle to me. I mean, living in the States myself and carousing in circles that place Japan on a pedestal (anime fans, video game fans, j-music fans, what-have-you), it's true that a great number of them (many teenagers and pre-teens) massacre the Japanese language (oftentimes alongside massacring their native language as well) in a bid to emulate their idols.

Still, at the same time I've also visited and spent a great deal of time in Asian countries as I'm Taiwanese, and Asians notoriously slaughter the English language in almost all aspects of their culture. Poorly translated signs are just the tip of the iceberg. There are also nonsensical English lines in most of their popular songs, English phrases being thrown around, and the Japanese are the ones borrowing a multitude of English words to tack on to their language after they've mangled it mostly beyond recognition. Not to mention the random, garbled, misspelled garbage they print on their clothing. Every time I see merchandise like that in the store, I want to fix it with tape and markers.

These ads to offend me quite a bit, if only because they come off as entirely xenophobic and hypocritical to me. And here I was being all optimistic that the world was growing more tolerant.

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superberg
August 19, 2009 4:21 AM
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\"SIX FRAGGS! MORE FRAGGS, MORE FAN!\"

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ChuckECheese
August 19, 2009 4:40 AM
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Why do Americans have such hangups about their perceived racism? Other nationalities/ethnicities are quite content disliking anybody even a tiny bit different than they are. Yet Americans constantly wring their hands and take Prozac over the slightest possible offense.

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Xay
August 21, 2009 7:37 PM
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@ChuckECheese: I think it has to do with a line in the Constitution, a war, and a plaque on some big statue in New York.

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goodfellow_puck
August 19, 2009 7:47 PM
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@ChuckECheese: Japan is a very homogeneous in it's make-up. It has a history of cutting itself off with closed ports and even massacring foreign people who stepped on their shores otherwise.

Conversely, the US was established on a premise of tolerance (lulz, unless you were native or slave), populated by just about every major country at the time and then some, and ultimately charted as an immigrant haven. OF COURSE we're trying to get ahead in the \"all created equal\" game. We said it, now we gotta live it.

Do you see the difference in cultural development here?

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yagisencho
August 19, 2009 6:51 AM
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@ChuckECheese:


Mm...it's not actually racism so much as elitism.


Here are some helpful terms for those studying Japanese culture or who aspire to spend time in Japan:


gaikokujin = foreigner (typically used on news broadcasts and textbooks)


gaijin = foreigner/outsider (used to refer to anyone not of Japanese ancestory, including native-born Japanese of Korean ancestory)


baka gaijin = silly foreigner (foreign national who tries to assimilate Japanese culture)


nihonjin mitai = seems Japanese (foreigner who succeeds in assimilating Japanese culture)

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jamar0303
August 22, 2009 3:47 PM
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@yagisencho: You forgot
\"otaku\"- geek (derogatory when used by Japanese \"normals\"; but generally they're more willing as a whole to socialize with people from other countries if the general attitude on NicoVideo and the past few J-pop concerts I went to is any indication). Because more than one person is going to Japan to further their anime/J-pop/dorama obsession. And Japanese fans are more than willing to find out that foreign people share their interests unlike the \"normals\" that people complain about here (because the \"normals\" marginalize them too). Of course, you also have the nutcases among that crowd who will continue to make jokes about foreigners, but ignore them like you should be ignoring the \"normals\" who act the same. Or to put it another way, their population is aging and no locals are making up for it and they're trying to make a bid for the 2016 Olympics. This ingrained racism helps neither.

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ChuckECheese
August 19, 2009 4:10 PM
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@yagisencho: Yours is an interesting post, but racism is basically race/ethnicity-based elitism. We don't call it white supremacy for nothing. All those categories you give have their own socially coded expectations, reactions, rewards and punishments.

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ninjatoddler
August 19, 2009 5:24 AM
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It's either a white man dressed up as a clown wearing garish make-up or a white man dressed up as a clown in a garish tie-polo combo. Choose your pic.

But in all honesty, stereotyping certainly doesn't help.

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EBounding
August 19, 2009 12:33 PM
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Stuff white people like: Being Offended

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pythonkid
August 19, 2009 1:08 PM
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That clearly isn't an american. He isn't fat.

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Rectilinear Propagation
August 19, 2009 1:20 PM
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I'm surprised that so many people are giving McDonald's a free pass here. A lot of people have said, \"Well, that's how it is in Japan\" but McDonald's is not a Japanese company.

For those that agree that the FRANCA have a point, does it matter that it's a McDonald's ad?

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goodfellow_puck
August 19, 2009 7:53 PM
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@Rectilinear Propagation: Multinational companies do not have a central marketing office. They have branches wherein decisions like marketing and menus are made by citizens of said country. You don't have an American come in and say, \"We're doing beef burgers on this menu!\" Only to find out Japan has limited beef supply, and serves it's patties...like you'd serve a steak. No bun, no veg. Make sense?

I don't think those saying Japan is xenophobic are saying, \"Thus, McDonald's knows their audience!\" or \"It's okay 'cause McDonald's is just making fun of themselves!\" I know I'm not. It's all bad.

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The_Red_Monkey
August 19, 2009 4:17 PM
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So do we get to use Charlie Chan here in the US for marketing? Why is this not called racist?

I like how its brushed off since its against \"whites\". You change it for any other race and there would be a firestorm here.

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amuro98
August 19, 2009 4:28 PM
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Um, so, that's the worst image of gaijin in Japan? Really Franca?

ABC just finished running \"I survived a Japanese game show\". Ignoring the actual game show itself, the other activities they had the contestants participate in illustrate just how funny and stupid the Japanese think Americans are. Yes, let's send a group of Americans who have never been outside of the US before, don't speak any Japanese, send them to spend the day with an old traditional fisherman, with no translator, and then laugh at their attempts to communicate in broken Japanese! Americans are so silly!

The basic stereotype of Americans (all foreigners, actually) is \"Ha ha! Silly gaijin! Only Japanese people can speak Japanese properly! You can never hope to understand our culture or society! We ignore the thousands of other gaijin who can actually speak and read Japanese - they scare and confuse us!\"

I had much fun scaring and confusing the general populace when I lived in Japan. I think one of the funniest misunderstandings I had was when I was visiting a Japanese friend of mine at his office. He introduced me to his boss but didn't tell me the boss could speak English. Being mindful of the situation, I introduced myself formerly in Japanese, and gave a low bow...only to bump my forehead against the boss' hand. The boss figured since I was not Japanese, it was more proper to shake hands. My friend just cringed, and tried not to laugh.

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jamar0303
August 21, 2009 7:02 AM
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@amuro98: Uh... I always thought that was because it was a GAME SHOW. That's sort of the point, isn't it? Laughs at the contestant's expense? Foreigners capable of speaking Japanese properly get on TV too.

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goodfellow_puck
August 19, 2009 7:56 PM
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@amuro98: Not saying you're wrong, 'cause I agree, but... Damn Japanese game shows are bad for ANY contestant. D: Or hosts even. Or...anybody in range!

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ChuckECheese
August 19, 2009 5:52 PM
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Calgon, take me away!

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dreamsneverend
August 19, 2009 6:31 PM
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More power to them, I can laugh at myself and others should be able to do the same about themselves.

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yume_ryuu
August 19, 2009 10:40 PM
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It's just something that you have to get used to living in Japan. I've seen the commercial you are talking about. Mr. James is at a fireworks festival in Asakusa and he is being a dumbass to the Japanese people around him. He sees a firework go off in the sky that looks like a burger and he starts getting all excited in broken Japanese.
Honestly, I watched it and I didn't even care. If you live in Japan, you have to be used to it. Even my husband, who is Japanese, will take a crack at me when I make a mistake, 'Oh silly foreigners don't know the customs.' I don't let it bother me, it's just the way it is here.

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Brenden
August 19, 2009 11:58 PM
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Though the ad campaign is certainly in bad taste, I take issue with the assertion that the vast majority of North American and European non-Japanese residents in Japan can speak proper Japanese. Certainly a group of perfectly able speakers exist, but a large group of foreign residents (especially those engaged in language teaching) are perfectly content (and able) to live out their time in Japan without obtaining much Japanese language ability.

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icantreplyright
August 20, 2009 2:52 AM
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Crr shld fnd smthng nrltd t rc r sxl rnttn.

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AdviceDog
August 20, 2009 7:28 AM
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Oh dearie me, this Japanese take on the always lame white guy cultural prototype has given me the vapors!

If you want to get offended at something, why don't you find me a positive male role model in today's media?

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pupu
August 21, 2009 8:02 PM
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Wow - this is a really REALLY big deal. We should all protest outside the Japanese embassy. The only part of this story that upsets me is that it seems that the forces of political correctness have extended their reach to Japan. I'm more concerned about being portrayed as a cry baby victim because of this PC groups attempts to make a big deal over a stupid ad. Seriously, if we embed political correctness into their culture we will do them more harm than they can ever do to us...

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LeChiffre
August 24, 2009 8:03 PM
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If you think this is funny, go to youtube and look up: \"tokyo breakfast\". It's fricking hilarious. It's a Japanese TV show that only made one show and this is it before it got banned.

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