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msquier

August 2, 2009 9:19 PM

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Is this landlord out of his/her mind?? With no restriction on A/C units in the rental contract I don't know how this can be legal. I'd say its more of a liability because of the risk of vulnerable individuals developing medical problems due to the heat.

I don't understand what the fuss is over. If the landlord will not provide cooling of any kind the tenants should have a right to provide their own. I've lived south of Pennsylvania most of my life and every place I've rented in has had central A/C or at least room size floor units. Even when I lived in northern Delaware we still had access to A/C.

I'm tempted to call the complex and tell them that if they don't like window units then they need to fork over the money for central A/C!

9 replies

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LadySiren is murdering her kids with HFCS and processed cheese

August 3, 2009 1:59 PM

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@msquier: Add these guys to the Horizon Realty stupidity pool. Start your twitter engines!

Also: this guy is NUTS. He's sacrificing comfort and safety for aesthetics. He's going to be lucky he doesn't end up facing a lawsuit, code violation, or worse.

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humphrmi

August 2, 2009 11:55 PM

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@msquier: Note that the location is Oregon. Having lived in both the south and the pacific northwest, I can say with great certainty that people in the Pac NW are nuts when it comes to avoiding A/C. I lived through a summer like the one they are experiencing now, and I would have given anything for a window shaker. But you ask a landlord about installing one, even at your own expense, and they look at you like you just suggested selling drugs out of the apartment. Crazy.

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mythago

August 3, 2009 3:06 AM

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@humphrmi: I think you just had a bad landlord. I never had one look at me funny when we lived in Portland and installed a window A/C.

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August 3, 2009 2:37 AM

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@humphrmi: really? We avoid AC at all costs? I live in Oregon-about 30 minutes from Aloha. My ex-husband lives in Aloha-less than a mile from this complex- and he has AC too. While I'm not a native Oregonian, I've lived over 22 years- and we've always had AC. When we searched for a new house 8 years ago, we added AC to our list, as our daughter has severe asthma and the heat really affects her. We've lived in a condo, 2 apartments, and 3 houses in those 22 years- and have always had AC. Not sure where your idea came from - but everyone I know here HAS AC.

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TVarmy

August 2, 2009 11:49 PM

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@msquier: They make units that don't hang out of the windows, as well. They're wheeled gizmos that sit on the floor and pipe hot air out through a hose into a hole flush with the window. From the street, you see nothing. You lose some floor space, but the landlord keeps his aesthetics. It's dumb to ban all air conditioners, period.

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August 5, 2009 4:52 PM

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@TVarmy: I'm in the Portland area and just went through this heat wave. I can assure you that there were few air conditioners (new or used) to be had last week, much less an actual choice of models.

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AustinTXProgrammer

August 3, 2009 7:58 PM

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@TVarmy: We needed temporary air conditioning for our server room (we knew we were moving in 6 months). The wheeled unit was $550 ($2500 for one of the same capacity from a data company) and window units of the same capacity were under $200.

Small window units can be had for $80, the smallest free standing will be over $300.

The less expensive free standing units are also single hose are FAR less efficient than the dual hose or in window units.

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August 3, 2009 4:04 AM

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@TVarmy: Thats what practically everyone rich enough for them uses in China. Although you don't see many residential A/C units around, most restaurants have a big standing unit in the corner.

Ask for the table near that thing... and don't go to China in the middle of the summer :P God.

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August 3, 2009 7:10 AM

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@Radi0logy: If only I could avoid it- I'm going there for college in a few days (I want some study abroad experience and tuition was only 3.7k per year). I pray that I will be able to get an AC unit in my dorm or I'm living off-campus.

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August 5, 2009 6:33 PM

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@jamar0303: I loved seeing China when I was there, but I think youre SOL in regards to the A/C unit...

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techgoddess: Only .002 cents per byte

August 3, 2009 4:53 AM

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@Radi0logy: My extended family in China has those windowless units - they're really amazing.

I've also been to China during the summer (not bad if you're near the coast, though, or on Hainan Island - where my family lives) and have sat at a table near a standing unit - not a good idea if it's at the coldest setting and the fan is at max. Get a table a few paces away and you'll be fine XD

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Veeber

August 3, 2009 2:45 PM

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@techgoddess: The free standing ones or the Mr. Slim types from Mitsubishi? The Mr. Slims have the compressor unit outside and only a fan unit inside. They are really nice and quiet compared the standalone which just have the heat/condensation tube out the window.

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August 3, 2009 12:20 AM

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@TVarmy: Yes and those units cost waaaaaaaaaay more than the window units. I remember when we were looking at some last year and $800 is too much for one of those things. Window units are half than that or even less depending on your resources or what retail chain has them on sale at the time.

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August 3, 2009 4:26 PM

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@BustangBetty: Where the hell were YOU shopping? It's true that when I bought my portable A/C in California it cost me $1100 but you can buy better units nowadays for $399 (in Canada, no less).

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August 3, 2009 2:01 AM

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@BustangBetty: One year at college, a guy in my hall had one of those things that he hid behind his desk to get around the \"no AC\" rule. That room was the damn nicest plan to study though...

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August 3, 2009 1:48 AM

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@BustangBetty:
$800 is still cheaper than a trip to the ER when your kid gets heat stroke. It's also so much more worth it than watching your child get sick, and worrying about him.

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August 3, 2009 1:51 AM

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@cupcake_ninja: Or they could just have Sears install a window unit, thereby satisfying the landlord's requirement that it be professionally installed.

Sears charges $150 for the service. Not free, but a heck of a lot cheaper and better than heat stroke.

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August 3, 2009 4:56 AM

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@jaysonelliot: Did you really just recommend hiring Sears for something? On Consumerist?

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August 2, 2009 9:38 PM

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Evicted in 10 days? I'm not familiar with Oregon law, but I'm pretty sure you can't legally evict someone that quickly.

4 replies

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mythago

August 3, 2009 3:07 AM

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@RickScarf: \"Facing eviction\". What it probably means is that it's a ten-day notice to comply, if they don't, the landlord begins eviction proceedings. You can't evict somebody in ten days.

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Ferris152

August 3, 2009 2:10 AM

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@RickScarf: I am familiar with Oregon Law and evictions (IANAL though!). It's 30 days in the least and that's only for a violation of the lease. Unless otherwise specified, something that doesn't violate the lease isn't grounds for eviction, AFAIK. If I recall correctly, even if they were rightfully ordered to leave, it's 30 days notice to leave. Then if they didn't leave, the landlord has to file with the court and pay some fees, then it gets served by the sheriff's office, then there's another waiting period, then there's another filing, then there's an actual eviction. Oregon is big on squatter's rights. The landlord is making trouble for themselves.

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August 2, 2009 10:05 PM

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@RickScarf: Unless they're on a week-to-week rent, it looks like 30 days is required. Since the A/C clause is not in the lease, this is a \"no-cause\" eviction and he must give 30 days (disclaimer: I am not a lawyer).

[www.rentlaw.com]

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August 3, 2009 4:30 AM

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@Coles_Law:
Even if there was a clause saying you can't have air conditioner installed, you sure can. It's a health thing so the landlord is breaking the federal rule when in comes to safety. I think that a criminal investigation should be conducted, and the owner and all those bastards that say you cant install air conditioner should be charged sand thrown in jail for 6 month. But of course during the heat wave they will have their perfect temp in prison. Back in the day, for that you know what they would do these sick bastards. Invite them in, and tie them up and leave them there with no food or water. Very soon they will change their mind. Can be easily done even today. You leave your apartment, tell your friend to invite the landlord who said no,apartment is empty. A masked person does the rest. The masked person, your friend does it, installs camera to monitor the freak and before breaking point dump him near the hospital. Lesson learned. I stress that is how people would do justice. Mob attack.

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August 4, 2009 7:29 PM

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@Techno Viking:
I figure it's kinda like SLAP lawsuits. If anybody complains, or even ignores the notice, nothing else happens.

Otherwise, it's a free way to get at least some of the tenants panicked and removing their units.

Mention the 30 day rule, federal health guidelines, etc... And they'll likely fold like a cheap set of cards.

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Joeb5

August 2, 2009 9:55 PM

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It's not legal to say no to satellite dish's and this likely fall under many laws that could put the landlord in big legal trouble.

the tenant's kid already landed in the hospital thanks to heat stroke. needs to talk a lawyer.

8 replies

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Cant_stop_the_rock

August 3, 2009 2:21 AM

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@Joeb5:
What do you think people did before air conditioners were invented? An air conditioner is not necessary to avoid heat stroke...

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August 5, 2009 5:01 PM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: Those buildings were constructed with techniques & materials that were more appropriate to the weather. Our older Portland houses tend to be more comfortable in the heat than newer homes. They build the newer homes assuming there will be A/C - or at least not caring about the comfort of the people who live in them.

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Veeber

August 3, 2009 2:50 PM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: They also didn't live in as densely populated areas covered in blacktop and concrete. All those things make it much hotter than before and then you add on all the trees we cut down.

In regions where it really does get this hot it is generally drier as well, which improves your bodies ability to cool. In the extreme cases where the humidity was high and hot you had to find someplace to go and cool down or you died. A/C made it possible to live in the places we do and the way that we do. If you don't provide it you need to drastically change the areas which are considered livable.

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August 5, 2009 5:43 AM

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@Veeber: thank you & well put.

i say this as a person who spent a very very VERY long miserable night trying & failing to sleep in wet clothes the night the ac went out in our apartment here in Phx.

give me AC or give me death!

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thezone

August 3, 2009 1:42 PM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: Here's what people did . . . the died. Especially, the elderly and the young. I wonder what people did before running water? I wonder what people did before sterile operating rooms? I wonder what people did before antibiotics? Anyone can ask questions like these. Yes humanity would go on without many of the technologies we have. There would just be fewer of us.

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August 3, 2009 3:44 AM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock:

They also had open air buildings and ways to bring in a breeze throughout the buildings.. Buildings are not built that way anymore..

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egoods

August 3, 2009 2:59 AM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: I own a 1969 Camaro with a metal dashboard, and seatbelts that are shaky at best. I've yet to die driving it... that doesn't mean it's a safe car.

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MikeVx

August 3, 2009 2:39 AM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: I haven't researched this, but I'd expect most suffered, and some died. Courtesy of modern technology we live through a lot of things that used to kill us. As a species, we've lived a long time without modern technology. As individuals, it gets trickier.

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August 3, 2009 1:22 AM

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@Joeb5: That's because Dish & DirectTV lobbyed state and the federal government so that rule. I guess \"Big Cooling\" needs to pony up for some shills.

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TCama

August 2, 2009 9:58 PM

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This has to be illegal, especially if there's nothing in the lease (in fact, it might be even be illegal to put in the lease).

4 replies

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August 3, 2009 7:53 AM

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@TCama: Believe it or not, but in Florida, the only requirements for rental property is that the landlord provide adequate heat, nothing mentioned about cooling.

At all of my condos, window ACs are not permitted.

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August 4, 2009 9:15 PM

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@FLConsumer: That is insane. Even when I lived in northern Florida (around Gainesville), the \"winter\" was a smattering of 60 degree days. Occasionally it dips into the 40s or 50s, but this is only in the dead of night-during the day, with sun, it was almost never below 60-65 at any time of the winter. The most drastic steps I ever took was an extra blanket and wearing ACTUAL PJs instead of sleeping in my usual birthday suit-when it's not even cold enough to snow, you don't need heat, just an extra blanket. But yeah, it defies all logic doesn't it?

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August 4, 2009 9:17 PM

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@EinhornIsAMan!: And this is coming not from a cold weather ignorant Floridian, but someone who spent time as a student in upstate New York. If you don't have heat there, you'll cry. 50 degree days in Gainesville are t-shirt days-like a day at the beach for someone who's lived in New York

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hills

August 3, 2009 12:29 AM

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@TCama: I rent an office in Portland and my lease says no window AC units allowed, but I may have a stand alone unit in my office that vents out the window.... so, I think this is legal to put in a lease.

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August 3, 2009 1:09 AM

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Just because someone put it in a lease doesn't make it legal.

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hills

August 3, 2009 2:34 AM

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@JediJohn82: duh - just using my lease as an example because my lease seems perfectly valid/legal to me. Kind of a moot point anyway, since the OP doesn't have this lease restriction, but I was replying to the original comment saying it might be illegal to put such a restriction in the lease....

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Karita

August 3, 2009 2:58 AM

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@hillsrovey: I have no idea whether or not it's legal (my gut says that would be legal, but I've never looked into it.) But I AM a lawyer, and lately I've been working on a lot of eviction matters. You would be amazed at all the illegal things that can be found in a lease written by someone who doesn't know what they are doing.

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August 3, 2009 1:34 AM

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@JediJohn82: There are a number of places where it is still legal to deny a/c. Either the law doesn't address it or they were written at a time when air conditioners required more juice (I remember having to get a special outlet for a window unit). Sometimes there will be vague clauses that can be interpreted in such a way to deny window units.

IANAL, BTW, but there are too many variables to instantly assume it's legal or illegal.

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August 2, 2009 10:00 PM

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Hell, even up in New England, every place I've ever rented from since college had 1, if not 2 AC units build right into the wall.

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ajlei

August 2, 2009 10:13 PM

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According to the news, the landlord was concerned about people improperly installing the window a/c units, worried about the risk of them falling.

Regardless, it's against OR tenant laws to say they can be evicted in 10 days, unless they've had a similar transgression in the last six months. Otherwise, they have 30 days. However, the entire idea of it is ridiculous. We nearly broke an all-time heat record last week (high is 107F, we hit 106F) and this guy is complaining about tenants putting in a/c? He's a douchebag.

3 replies

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SJActress

August 5, 2009 7:03 AM

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I'd tell him, \"Fine. I'll remove my window unit...when YOU move in here and live without A/C, too.\"

Slum lord!

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August 4, 2009 4:56 PM

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@LiC: You do know not everyone is a healthy, middle aged adult for whom cooling down is as simple as staying in the shade and drinking cold water, right?

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August 3, 2009 4:36 AM

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@ajlei: I think what the landlord wanted, was to use a company for installing the a/c. Make a deal with whatever company is there, and have the renters pay 500 bucks and profit from that. Say 250 each apartment. I still think that the scum should be in jail for that with no a/c in his block. let him or her go nuts from heat. Sick bitch, or sick bastard. I would ignore the notice, call police, go to any news agency, or radio station the moment landlord said that. Bad press for him. Well now he ruined his business. No one will deal with him. And I suggest all who do business with him, stop now.

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bohemian

August 2, 2009 10:20 PM

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Sounds like a landlord from hell. Too cheap to install central air and suddenly decides aesthetics matter? I am guessing the real issue is that electricity is included in their rent and he doesn't want to pay the additional costs.

Tenants en masse need to take this guy to court.

3 replies

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Cant_stop_the_rock

August 3, 2009 2:30 AM

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Where did you get the idea that he cares about how much people are using their A/C? He says he thinks they look tacky. They're certainly not aesthetically appealing.

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Karita

August 3, 2009 3:01 AM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: Saying they look tacky is way better than telling the truth - my immediate reaction was also that electricity must be included in the rent. Granted, they aren't pretty, but they are everywhere. I can't imagine anyone filing a complaint with the city about the appearance of an apartment building with AC units in the windows. And I can't imagine anyone deciding not to rent an apartment because the neighbors have an AC in their window. I suppose it's possible, but it doesn't make sense, particularly as the place doesn't seem to be a high-rent luxury building.

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August 3, 2009 8:00 AM

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@pax: It depends on the part of the country you're in. Down in FL, window AC = low rent/trashy no matter where it may be located. Even many section 8 properties in FL now have central air. People install Japanese mini-split ACs on historical properties where they don't want window ACs mucking up the looks of things.

@floraposte: That's alright, I had to paint the AC condensing unit's housing (the outdoor unit) of my central AC to please the condo board at one of my condos. They thought it looked \"too big\".

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August 3, 2009 7:51 AM

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@TVarmy: Unfortunately the portable ACs with hoses don't always work as you'd think they would. The vast majority of them only have an exhaust tube and push out air that's very similar to a dryer's exhaust in terms of temperature and volume. If you're taking that much air out of the place, then it has to be replaced from somewhere, which will be the walls/attic/other air leaks. Better than nothing, but certainly not as efficient as a window AC. Nowhere near as efficient as a central AC.

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August 5, 2009 5:46 AM

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@FLConsumer: nope. that horrid night mentioned in my comment above was just not up to the task of cooling our tiny living room. we huddled around it like it was a campfire.

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August 3, 2009 7:04 AM

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@SnatchTease: Only 95?? Do you live on the coast or something? It got up to 106 on two days where I live, about five miles from this particular complex, which were the same two days when it didn't cool down enough at night. It's been over 90 for about a week and a half now. I don't have AC in my apartment either (like the majority of apartments in the metro area) and have had to make do with a crappy portable unit that cools approximately 30 square feet of my living room down to a nice livable 85 or so. It's no bloody wonder people are getting sick.

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nybiker

August 2, 2009 11:35 PM

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@bohemian: Without having heard from the landlord, I am inclined to agree with your guess.

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August 2, 2009 10:42 PM

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in CA a landlord cannot amend a lease until it expires - amendments to a month by month tenancy require a 30 day notice - OR might be similar. Either way it's a quality of living issue and likely could be contested in court.

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lockdog

August 2, 2009 10:50 PM

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I've lived in several old apartment buildings where the high amps that a window AC unit draws could easily cause blown fuses, shorts, or even a fire. It only gets worse when people overload circuits with other amperage hogs like microwaves, mini-fridges, hot plates and CRT TVs and PC monitors. I've even seen tenant replace 10 amp fuses with 20 amp slow blows because they kept burning out the fuse. Tricks like these can make your electrical wire look more like toaster coils, glowing red and inches away from lathe that is as dry as tinder. In these cases the absentee landlords would probably have been happy to have a tenant burn down the building for them, but as a fellow resident, window AC units popping up in neighboring apartments would make me scared to live there when I knew the circuits couldn't handle it.

Incidentally, these buildings were all in apartments far below the mason-dixon and built well before the age of AC. Somehow people managed to live in these cities all the way up to the last 20-30 years when residential AC became common.

But the landlord here still sounds like a jerk.

5 replies

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shepd

August 4, 2009 7:10 PM

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You have 18 AWG wire? :)

But seriously, going from 15 A to 20 A isn't all that big of a deal (although it is stupid and possibly going to violate the lease/insurance). Every single rental I've ever been in I've had to buy a bunch of 15 A fuses (I prefer time delay, they're perfectly safe and are great for AC units) because the previous tenants stick 30 A fuses in.

30 AMPS. On 14 AWG wire. I shudder at how bad a shape the wiring must be.

Of course, it only makes sense, because most of the places I've been in are not wired to code. 14+ outlets on the SAME circuit. No GFI for the bathroom (Must be a GFI). Bathroom lightswitch accessible from the bathtub (Must be at *least* 1 meter away, or mounted outside if not possible). Outlets spaced about 20 feet apart (Must be 12 feet apart, or 6 feet to any outlet, maximum). Rooms with no light that also didn't have a switched outlet (Must have either a switched outlet, a lightswitch, or a pullstring light). Copper only outlets/switches/fixtures attached to aluminum without pigtail + NoOx grease + No 63/65 Marette. I could go on, but what's the point? It'll never, ever be fixed until the places burn down.

Actually, the only thing, apart from the split outlets, I regularly find done correctly is 3-way switches between ground and second floors.

In my last place I had to run FOUR extension cords across the unit randomly so I could plug in air conditioners, computers, toasters, printers, etc without blowing fuses. All because some idiot \"electrician\" thought it would be a good idea to use one fuse for all of the outlets, except 5 of them, which used 7 fuses total (two of them being split outlets that were, amazingly, done to code). Extreme WTF there.

I actually left numbered labels on all the plugs in that unit to let the next tenant know what fuse does what. Not that they'll bother paying attention.

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Skaperen

August 3, 2009 12:38 AM

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@lockdog: The landlord needs to upgrade the electrical system. Give him 10 days.

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August 3, 2009 3:12 AM

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@Skaperen:
+1. They might be able to get him for code violations, depending on how old the wiring is ( if that's indeed the problem ).

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August 3, 2009 1:07 AM

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ShariC

August 3, 2009 12:34 AM

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@lockdog: Things were different in the past in regards to the heat. Urbanization (particularly the use of concrete and the loss of trees), cars, and increased population density change the heat patterns. For instance, living in Tokyo, the summer temperature range is in the high 70's to low 80's at night and high 80's to low 90's during the day. It literally never cools down because the concrete holds the heat and people live close together. It wasn't like this before man-made changes and increased population.

Also, we all know the planet is getting hotter (though we're not going to talk about the cause as it's not really the issue). Summers now are hotter than they used to be and the heat is harder to escape in the evenings because in some places it simply never cools down.

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August 2, 2009 11:33 PM

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Also tacky: corpses.

2 replies

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August 3, 2009 12:58 AM

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@Whitey Fisk: Yeah, I think dead body stench might be a bigger problem for the landlord to get rid of

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Alternate

August 3, 2009 2:12 AM

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@catnapped: No see, thats what the 10 day eviction is for! He wants them out before they croak.

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August 2, 2009 11:34 PM

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For those who have never been in the Pacific NW - most residences do not have AC, mainly because we really don't get more than a couple of days a year over 90, and we have very low humidity during the summer.

Even during the monster heat that we had last week, the humidity stayed below 25-30%.

So yes, the landlord is a douche for not allowing window a/c, but the lack of central air and/or window a/c is not an indication of his evilness.

4 replies

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redkamel

August 3, 2009 12:21 AM

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@Roy Hobbs: \"mainly because we really don't get more than a couple of days a year over 90, and we have very low humidity during the summer.

Even during the monster heat that we had last week, the humidity stayed below 25-30%.\"

so why should the landlord care who has AC? people dont run AC when its not hot.

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LiC

August 3, 2009 1:42 AM

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@redkamel: Why install A/C when it's not over 90 degrees 350 days a year? Waste of money.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly

August 3, 2009 1:55 AM

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@LiC: yeah, but so was that hospital bill for the kid with heat stroke. but once you pay the funeral bills then you don't have to worry about it anymore

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LiC

August 3, 2009 2:25 AM

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@catastrophegirl: You do realize there are other ways to avoid heat stroke than sitting inside with the A/C on, right?

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August 4, 2009 6:52 PM

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@LiC: There are other ways to do a lot of things...that doesn't make them best.

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August 5, 2009 5:57 AM

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@Smashville: or even doable. can't hang at mall/movie/wherever w/o $$ transportation.

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ajlei

August 3, 2009 12:39 AM

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@redkamel: He was stating the reason why A/C was not already installed in the building. A lot of people I've spoken to from different parts of the country are surprised that I live in a house with no A/C, apartments here are even less likely to have it.

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LiC

August 2, 2009 11:45 PM

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@Roy Hobbs: Thank you for informing the ignorant masses about the max temps up here, Roy. I'm in Beaverton, right by Aloha, and I went to sleep all last week with a wet kerchief on my face. It's been bad, but the heat wave is over now, I hope.

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Trai_Dep

August 2, 2009 11:38 PM

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When I was a kid, not only did we sweat it out every summer as Gods intended, we wore parkas.

2 replies

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August 3, 2009 1:53 AM

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@Trai_Dep: You had sweat?

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August 3, 2009 1:35 AM

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@Trai_Dep: Well, we wore rubberized sweatsuits under our parkas...and we liked it.

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kabuk1

August 2, 2009 11:38 PM

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If I lived there I would sue the living SHIT out of this guy. He has to be certifiably insane for thinking he can get away with this.

2 replies

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Cant_stop_the_rock

August 3, 2009 2:31 AM

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I don't think you'd need to sue him to get his shit. I'm sure he'd give it to you for free considering that he would otherwise just flush it down the toilet.

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August 2, 2009 11:45 PM

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Yep, I hope the tenants sue his ass off. If there is no clause in the contract about A/C units, the landlord can't do a thing.

Also, the landlords must give a 30 days notice to evict someone. He just can't give 10 days on a whim.

This guy is in big trouble. Hope he gets his ass sued off

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August 2, 2009 11:40 PM

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i'm sure a well placed tweet will set that landlord straight!

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SnatchTease

August 2, 2009 11:44 PM

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i live in oregon, this week it's been up to around 95 degrees

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August 2, 2009 11:45 PM

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This sounds like the landlord is breaching the rental agreement if he moves to evict without a clause in the lease prohibiting air conditioners. I assume this only applies to in-window air conditioners... standalones would be completely within the confines of the leased space. Regardless this is a short term battle. He will be able to modify the rental agreements for future rentals/renewals.

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August 2, 2009 11:46 PM

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Something VERY important was left out of this post. Notice this line from the original article:

\"Frettim said she was told that if she wanted A/C, she had to have it professionally installed at a cost of about $500, which she says she cannot afford.\"

This is not about window A/Cs looking tacky. This is about a jackass landlord wanting his tenants to pay for renovating his apartments.

5 replies

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nybiker

August 3, 2009 12:08 AM

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@WraithSama: I watched the video and read the story on the news station's website and I didn't hear or see anything that said \"installation means drilling a cutout in the wall to install an air conditioner.\" So, how does it cost $500 to have an a/c put into a window? Is there an expectation of electrical work as well (see a comment above regarding tenants who overload circuits) to ensure proper wiring?
There's no question that even putting an a/c in a window, you need to watch what you're doing and ensure that it's not going to fall out. But I am still at a loss to see a $500 cost to put it in a window.
Aside from the cost question, I'd suggest they all put in a/c's and keep cool. The tenants can help one another to put them in the windows and strapped in somehow so they don't fall out. And teach one another about not overloading circuits too. They might be cool one minute, but it could then become Hades the next.

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August 2, 2009 11:51 PM

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@WraithSama: At the same time, it could be considered a huge liability to have some random Joe install and power an air conditioning unit. Similarly, if you own a home, you can't just make willy-nilly repairs without paying for an inspector and a city permit (in other words, if you can't pay for a professional, then you don't do it).

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Nicole

August 3, 2009 12:32 AM

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@supercereal: It's not hard to install a window A/C. Open window, place unit inside, close window, plug in. There. Done. Unless the person installing is a complete idiot (and assuming the wiring in the building can handle the A/C), what on earth could possibly go wrong there.

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mmmsoap

August 3, 2009 1:51 AM

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@Nicole: Holy crap, I would not want to be walking underneath the air conditioner(s) that you've installed, if you're not securing the thing to the window frame.

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scoosdad

August 4, 2009 9:14 PM

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@mmmsoap: Agreed. I have the type of windows that tilt in and out for easy cleaning, and if I fail to install screws to keep the two halves of the windows secured to the frame and not to tilt suddenly, the weight of the 5000 BTU air conditioner in my bedroom, on its own, could easily force the lower sash to tilt out of its track, and said air conditioner to crash to the deck one floor below. The frame on the air conditioner that rests against the window sash is NOT designed to prevent gravity from doing its thing.

Talking from experience. Still worked after that, though.

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August 3, 2009 1:19 AM

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@Nicole: The unit falling out of the window because the weight was uneven? Plenty of windows won't be up to the weight of a tipping window air conditioner. That's why supports and brackets are a common part of the installation process.

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August 3, 2009 12:07 AM

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@supercereal:
Also, its worth repeating that the reason the landlord gave for forbidding A/Cs is that they \"look tacky\". There was no mention of any kind of liability issue or even a concern that the apartment's electrical system wasn't up to the task of powering air conditioner units.

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August 3, 2009 12:05 AM

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@supercereal:
How on earth would it be a \"huge liability\" to a landlord for a tenant to stick in a window unit?

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August 3, 2009 12:31 AM

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@WraithSama: Before I write anything else, I think the landlord's a douche.

Liability kicks in when you install AC that hangs out the window - especially on upper floors. We used to live on the 14th floor and asked building management about installing an AC unit. The building manager said and this is as close to a quote as possible: \"We won't install it for you but you're welcome to put the unit in the window on your own or have someone else do it for you. If it falls and destroys a car or kills someone on the sidewalk, the liability falls on you.\" Fair enough, we thought.

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August 3, 2009 12:30 AM

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@WraithSama: If you want to be technical, the landlord never gave an \"official\" reason -- it's just hearsay that they're forbidden due to their tackiness.

But that aside, a weak looking lady dangling something that can weight upwards of 60-100 lbs out the window is most certainly a liability...especially on a higher floor.

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pax

August 2, 2009 11:51 PM

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I guess I don't understand how window A/Cs look tacky anyway. I mean, they're not the prettiest things, I suppose, but tacky? They look like air conditioners. What else do you want?

4 replies

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Cant_stop_the_rock

August 3, 2009 2:43 AM

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@pax:
When I see dozens of window air conditioners in an apartment building, I think \"low rent apartment.\" At least that is generally the case around here. As a landlord, you don't want people to look at your building and think \"low rent apartment\".

<--- Used to live in a house with no central air, unabashedly used several window air conditioners.

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Karita

August 3, 2009 3:11 AM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: I would guess that's not a common thought in every area of the country. Here, the most expensive, nicest place I ever rented required window units, as it was an older building. And the cheapest, tackiest place I rented had central air, but it was a new development.

The same with houses - older houses in New England are unlikely to have central air, but many of them are far from cheap.

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pax

August 3, 2009 3:20 AM

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@Karita: Yup. Many an exclusive prewar building here in NYC has a/cs sticking out.

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August 2, 2009 11:58 PM

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@pax: In my Chicago apartment, the property company required all window a/c units to be painted brown so as not to stand out against the brick. It wasn't an attractive building, just a dull apartment building of fifteen stories or so, so this seemed awfully fussy to me, but at least it wasn't forbidding them.

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Nicole

August 3, 2009 12:33 AM

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@floraposte: See now, that's a somewhat silly, but reasonable request.

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August 2, 2009 11:53 PM

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Unless you rent week to week (unlikely) or have had previous run-ins over this issue, 10 days is insufficient. Nonetheless, the landlord would have to go to court to forcibly evict you.

[www.rentlaw.com]

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August 2, 2009 11:58 PM

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Here is a desperate solution to those who can't have A/C or don't have the funds for one.
[lifehacker.com]

All you need is ice, which is no problem as McDonalds apparently sells some:
[consumerist.com]

2 replies

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Cant_stop_the_rock

August 3, 2009 2:40 AM

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@GoodBytes:
Or just get a windowless air conditioner.

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Cant_stop_the_rock

August 3, 2009 2:41 AM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock:
Which would still be vented out the window ideally, but wouldn't look so... tacky.

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Karita

August 3, 2009 3:08 AM

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@Cant_stop_the_rock: Unfortunately, those things don't work nearly as well as the window units. I'm not sure why, exactly.

I read all the reviews, and thought I'd give the portable ones a try this summer. I bought a high-end one, and it was a total disaster. I'm actually going to be returning it tomorrow. (Just happy it was a barter deal rather than a cash transaction!) It hardly works, and it ended up leaking all over the place.

I'd think I got a dud, except that reviews for windowless ACs seem to be uniformly bad.

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August 4, 2009 7:41 PM

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@Karita:
What you need is a *dual* tube unit that has an intake and an exhaust. preferably the tubes would be insulated a bit.

Still not as good as a window unit, but depending the best you can do. I'm looking at getting a split ductless.

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August 3, 2009 8:02 AM

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@Karita: It's because you're pushing air outside, so you've got to replace that air inside the house. Where's it going to come from? Outside, your attic, anywhere there's an air leak. A quick way to increase the performance of these beasts is to pipe outside air directly into the unit so it doesn't depressurize the house and outside/attic air isn't pulled inside your house.

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f3rg

August 3, 2009 12:02 AM

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This is why murder should sometimes be legal. It's like some people live just to ruin other peoples' lives. I'd find a new place and leave the landlord with a mess on his hands.

1 replies

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wvFrugan

August 3, 2009 12:27 AM

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@f3rg:
Not only legal, but sanctioned & at times encouraged.

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humphrmi

August 3, 2009 12:25 AM

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@supercereal: Seriously? Have you ever installed and \"powered\" a window shaker? Before you answer, have you ever plugged in a toaster? WHAT? You didn't hire a professional to \"power\" your toaster?

2 replies

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August 3, 2009 12:33 AM

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@humphrmi: If it counts for anything, I earned a PhD in electrical engineering (specifically optics, but whatever). I know a thing or two about power requirements.

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humphrmi

August 3, 2009 12:56 AM

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@supercereal: Great. Did that PhD teach you how to plug in a NEMA 5-15P into a NEMA 5-15R?

(For the non-PhD's: in other words, plug a three-prong 110V plug into a three-prong 110V receptacle. It's a pretty tough job, and apparently requires a PhD.)

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August 3, 2009 1:56 AM

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@humphrmi: If someone is as stupid as most people in these stories and/or most software geeks, they'd also have everything else in their house on the same outlet. Sometimes that creates fiery problems...

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August 3, 2009 10:54 AM

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@supercereal: oh, don't worry. i have a surge protector. 6 of them, actually, all plugged into a power bar, plugged into the same receptacle.

i kept popping the breaker though, so i just bypassed the circuit with an 8-gauge jumper.

/DIY FTL

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August 3, 2009 1:08 AM

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It costs about $70 to have an A/C professionally installed.

Wanna bet the landlord is \"collecting\" this $500 fee for installation?

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heart.shaped.rock

August 3, 2009 12:40 AM

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Add me to the list of people who think this property management company is the epitome of douchbaggery! Not only for not allowing the AC unit, but for thinking their tenants are too stupid to know that they can't be booted in 10 days for having one!

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HalOfBorg

August 3, 2009 12:45 AM

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Makes me wonder if the electric bill is included in the rent. No AC units = lower electric bill to landlord.

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tape

August 3, 2009 12:50 AM

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yeah, that eviction threat ought to hold up in court...

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johnfrombrooklyn

August 3, 2009 1:03 AM

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I rent houses and all my leases require tenants to have AC, satellite dishes, cable, internet connection and any other appliances installed professionally. They also need my approval before they install anything. Before I put in this clause, I had tenants install AC with no frames in the window units, daisy chain ACs into one outlet with 9 other appliances (and then blame me when they blew out their TVs), drag industrial size ACs into the house, and every dumb ass idea possible. So now my tenants can't put a single nail in the wall without my permission. And if they don't like it, then they can rent elsewhere. And I don't know about other states but in Minnesota and Wisconsin where I own rental property, I am liable if some bozo installs a satellite dish incorrect and it blows off some night and kills a lady walking down the street.

1 replies

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Joeb5

August 3, 2009 1:31 AM

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@johnfrombrooklyn:
now days satellite dishes, cable, internet connection come with free or low cost less then $50 PRO installs. AC does not.

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I_have_something_to_say

August 3, 2009 1:13 AM

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So what in the hell does this landlord douche bag say about floor models? I hope he spontaneously combusts in his own vomit.

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Rat_Race

August 3, 2009 1:31 AM

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Granted the landlord is being a prick, but no one thought to get a cheap standing fan or two? Granted they aren't going to be as cool as an AC and can be noisy , but they are a little bit cheaper, and don't carry any tackiness or liability to them.

Having gone through three Tucson summers where the swap cooler was broken for a week , the simple fix was two Hampton Bay 20' fans, which go for about $10 to $40 listed on the home depot site. Wasn't the best replacement, but better than nothing, and didn't cost too much.

3 replies

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nybiker

August 3, 2009 2:54 AM

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@Rat_Race: I like funny typos and that's why I'm pointing this one out. 20' = 20 feet. But I guess you meant 20\" = 20 inches. Otherwise, those are some mighty wind machines you've got there. Stay cool.

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August 3, 2009 1:39 AM

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Ah, but in Tucson you have extremely low humidity most of the hot season, even during monsoon its still drier then most coastal climates, in low humidity moving air evaporates sweat off of the skin and creates a cooling effect, if air is humid, it can't absorb as much, if any, sweat, ergo no cooling effect. I lived in Phoenix for 2 years, one of which saw temperatures closer to 120 then 110! ANY air movement made a huge difference. I live in Houston now, rarely see 100, but humidity in the 90+% range is normal, moving air won't do squat! Have to have AC, and I mean REFRIGERATION AC, not swamp cooler/evap, etc.

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August 3, 2009 8:10 AM

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@superdantx: Oregon, where this particular news article took place, also had low humidity when the temperatures reached > 90F. Fans would have worked quite well.

Re: Houston, I do believe Houston was established in the 1830s. It'd be another 100 years before air conditioning arrived, another 50-60 years before electric fans were available.

It's not to say that living without AC isn't uncomfortable especially with modern buildings not designed with the features (high ceilings/cross ventilation) that our grandparents used to survive the heat, but the human body *can* survive it as long as the humans involved have enough brain cells to figure out how to stay hydrated and other accommodations for the climate. I've spent quite a few summer months in FL without air conditioning over the years, due to 4+ hurricanes, mechanical failures, power grid failures, etc. It's not THAT bad.

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August 3, 2009 8:28 AM

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@FLConsumer: But here's the thing, despite all the A/C available these days, people still regularly die of heat-related illnesses during heat waves. Of course, 99.99999% of the people still survive, but I bet you, back in those good ol' days you're talking about, the death rate was substantially higher than it is now. Yeah, your grandparents survived the heat back then, but now that they're much older, are you still gonna bet on them?

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August 3, 2009 1:48 AM

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The news report in the video said the landlord was allowing A/C if it was professionally installed. Looking at the dangerous and shoddy way tenants in the video had \"installed\" their window units with kitchen tables holding them up or blankets stuffed into the window frame to keep them steady, I'm not entirely surprised.

Listening to the people interviewed in that video, they sounded like they were getting their outrage on for the news crew. $400 for A/C installation?
A simple check of the Sears website lets you get a quote for professional installation, and the prices start at $150, going to a max of $250 for the most complex job. [www.searshomeservices.com]

Granted, $150 may be a lot of money to the people living in this complex, but from the way the news report focused on hospitalized children, you'd think the landlord was forbidding heat in the middle of winter.

How do they suppose people survived at all before A/C was invented?

I'm not saying they don't deserve to have air conditioning, and the landlord did themselves no favors by refusing to talk to the news (if that's true), but this sounds much more sensationalist than it needs to.

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August 3, 2009 2:00 AM

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Another case of \"don't know all the facts\".

This may or may not be legal, the tennants may or may not be drama queens. We just dont know.

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Grrrrrrr, now with two buns made of bacon.

August 3, 2009 2:03 AM

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Wait, if the reason for the prohibition is that window-units \"look tacky,\" then why would that suddenly go away if the unit were \"professionally installed.\" I'd hardly believe that a window unit installed by Joe Blow would look any different than one that was \"professionally installed.\" Total BS.

It sounds to me like the ultimate money-making scam. Wait until it's ridiculously hot, then threaten to evict anyone who puts in a window-unit. What do you want to bet that the $500 \"professional installation\" is provided by the complex maintenance man? I bet it is.

I wonder if the mafia is involved? Is the $500 \"air conditioner protection money?\"

There was no prohibition stated in the original rental agreement. This sounds totally illegal and in violation of fair housing laws.

If it's a safety issue and the complex owners want to make sure the AC installation is safe, I'd say a $25 check by the maintenance man would be more in line with sanity.

1 replies

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August 3, 2009 7:48 AM

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@☠Grяrяrяrяrя sings the doom song now!:
In this case, I think \"professionally installed\" means that they actually make a cut-out in the wall and permanently install a unit. An apartment complex I used to live in had this done.

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August 3, 2009 2:26 AM

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As a workaround, instead of the window AC units, get one of those portable ones that can be found at Lowes and Home Depot. They cost about $400-$600 (depending on size) and only require a window to be open open (with a plate, etc to eat the space) and not as obvious. My mom got one and it dropped the temp in her bedroom to a nice temp easily when her normal AC unit went boom.

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madog

August 3, 2009 2:29 AM

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Been routinely over 105 here for a few weeks, even hit 112 a couple days. I live in an old house with an old AC unit that can't cool the entire house (it barely reaches the other side of the house where the bedrooms are). Furthermore, it's probably the least energy efficient unit ever built and eats a lot of juice. Never had enough money to replace the unit even though it would save money in the long run. Also, we have huge windows along the south side of the house with single pane windows (there's only one window that opens in the kitchen, not counting the bedrooms) and i wouldn't be surprised if the place is insulated with dust. Once the AC is turned off the house heats back up in 5 minutes. Because of this, the house is always hotter in the summer and cooler in the winter than it is outside.

My point? Deal with the heat you babies like millions of other people do. I'm lucky that I have a partially working unit and a roof over my head, though.

That said, this landlord is still a whack job and still deserves to be punched in the face by an angry and hot tenant. Those that have the responsiblity to do something about that asshole should; and should be able to install whatever they need or can to improve their quality of living.

2 replies

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August 8, 2009 3:26 AM

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@madog: way to blame the op & earn some balancing karma.

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Malice Blackhart

August 3, 2009 2:48 AM

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Always love the \"blame the op\" posts.

Mr. Mad Dog (as it would be properly spelled),

Some people aren't built to withstand 112 degree temperatures. I grew up in South Texas, where every year the temp reached a scorching 115 several times during the summer. That being said, if I ever move north, I'm going to start freezing when it hits 70.

My point? Have some human dignity. Just because you're \"lucky to have a working unit and roof over your head\" doesn't mean everyone else is. And not everybody can stand your 112 degree temps.

Luck be with you the day that your a/c dies. I'm sure you're going to love it.

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jameleon

August 3, 2009 2:44 AM

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I'd like to know what the landlord would say in response to someone with the so-called portable ACs, which is what we have in our apartment in Portland. Nothing hangs out the window, but rather a pipe goes up to the window, and it's barely noticeable on the outside. Therefore, it wouldn't \"look tacky.\"

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August 3, 2009 2:55 AM

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Wow, someone's on a power/green trip...

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sevenwhitehorses

August 3, 2009 3:27 AM

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Interesting enough, in most Oregon rental agreements is a clause stating the landlord may evict you for not keeping the house or apartment up to the landlords standards, there is no recourse to this clause nor is there the ability to put it to a third party to decide if the standard if fair. I would guess the landlord could use that as the reason to evict.

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August 3, 2009 3:27 AM

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A good way to break your lease & get out of that complex. Buy a used A/C for $20 and have the landlord break your lease. Sounds like a good deal to me.

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August 3, 2009 3:37 AM

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@nicole: From the video it looks like these apartments have horizontal slider windows. These require a different type of unit (often called \"casement\" units) that have special installation requirements. They're not as simple as standard double-hung windows. I just installed one myself in my daughter's bedroom.
I have a regular unit in my home office, and it truly is as simple as raising the window, inserting the unit and lowering the window. The slider requires securely attaching a support to the window frame and installing the unit so that it's properly locked to the support. If you get it wrong it will eventually fall out of the window.

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kym_21

August 3, 2009 3:54 AM

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I was just wondering if the landlord might be paying the electric bill? In some of the realy cheap places around here the landlord includes the bills with the rent and then limits Window A/c's, How many people per apartment etc.

Also the OP Should definetley call the red cross and ask for some help with combating the heat. Having red cross and the local news standing on the door step will help the landlord come to his senses

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August 3, 2009 4:12 AM

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In Ontario, at least, they can't necessarily \"forbid\" a/c units, but they can require permission and charge a fee to cover the cost of it. My building decided to try to implement a $150 fee for a single 5000btu unit cooling a 150 sq foot room to 75 degrees.... I've used it for two nights this summer. I'll give them a toonie to cover the hydro and consider the matter closed (that's the quote I got from the local hydro utility.)

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Quaoar

August 3, 2009 4:15 AM

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I agree with Lockdog, old buildings likely don't have the electrical infrastructure to handle window AC's. It is also possible that this building still has aluminum wiring in places. High amperage power will show the tenants how bad aluminum wiring is when their apartments catch fire.

The owner should simply suck it up and confess that the building does not have an electrical system capable of handling many window ACs, and that the renters might have to pay damages if their ACs cause problems like brownouts and burnouts of the ACs. Most rental contracts specify that even unintentional damage to apartments is the renter's obligation to correct.

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420greg

August 3, 2009 4:15 AM

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Maybe the real reason is the places maybe 'utilities included' and the landlord is looking for an excuse to avoid higher bills that cut in to his profit.

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alltheusernamesaretaken

August 3, 2009 4:20 AM

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See the Oregon Residential Landlord/Tenant Act here....

[www.leg.state.or.us]

Specifically section 90.262 and 90.385 (When of course, read in conjunction with the actual rental agreement.)

1 replies

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gaywolverine

August 4, 2009 9:54 PM

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@alltheusernamesaretaken: Seems 90.262
(f) The tenant has written notice of it at the time the tenant enters into the rental agreement, or when it is adopted.
(2) If a rule or regulation adopted after the tenant enters into the rental agreement works a substantial modification of the bargain, it is not valid unless the tenant consents to it in writing.

Too bad not enough tenants fight for their rights

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August 3, 2009 4:39 AM

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Can we find out who this landlord is, and maybe make him disappear for a while. I'm all for that. I suddenly have immeasurable hatred for this landlord.

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Bog

August 3, 2009 5:05 AM

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My landlord offered to help get me an A/C unit. But I told him \"no, it would be a waste of money and effort for something that we'd only use two weeks out of the year. A fan would be good enough...\" I'd rather have new carpets.

It did reach 103° outside and 96° inside, I didn't really like the heat too much; but all said, I didn't really care that much either and figured that I'd get over it. But heck - good training for my work trip to a small country on the equator in October.

But all said and done, the landlord in this story is a douche. There a lot of people the heat will really mess up.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly

August 3, 2009 6:17 AM

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just some info:

washington county, OR tax info for this site shows it was purchased last in 2006, with the buildings standing on it. and no permits of any kind have been issued for however long washington county keeps records [as an example, my county keeps permit records for 6 years]

so it doesn't look like any major improvements or repairs of any kind [that are the type required to have permits] have been done for at least a few years.

[washims.co.washington.or.us]

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August 4, 2009 6:39 PM

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An older apartment of mine wouldn't allow A/C unless it was installed by them at a cost of $125 per unit. Granted, my apartment was in a huge apartment building on the 8th floor - an A/C dropping from that height due to a bad install would be terrible news. Still, I don't understand the \"professional\" installation cost since I assume they're talking about window A/Cs that can be put in within minutes.

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gaywolverine

August 4, 2009 9:49 PM

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The basic rule would be, is it in the lease. Since it is not, the tenant has the right to quiet comfort of his living space. There are reasons leases are not a one page document. If the landlord does not want you to nail hole sin the wall, then put it in the lease. If you do not want AC units, put it in the lease. Tenants will actually have more rights on this, than in a HOA situation where the HOA has rules against certain things possibly.

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August 5, 2009 1:08 AM

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Find out where he lives. Break his personal air conditioner.

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HauseMan

August 5, 2009 8:08 PM

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This guy is NUTS. If there's no provision in the lease, he has nothing to enforce. That a kid wound up in the hospital is enough for me.

Atlanta often gets hot in the summer, and I vacation on the GA coast where it really gets muggy. My youngest got sick from the heat last year (age 4) and again this year at age 5. He was groggy and threw up several times. So, if a mere window AC unit is the one thing that would prevent human tragedy, then this guy should be sued blind, and locked in a cargo trailer for a week or two. That'll teach him.

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Air conditioning

December 8, 2009 10:22 PM

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Maybe we need to have a good Air condition at home especially if we have tenants so they can prevent from heat stroke in heat season. Air conditioning

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April 12, 2010 1:58 AM

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A prime reason why apartment tenants need to unionize, with local chapters that have the legal muscle to halt such abuses.

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