var json_comments = new Array("
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AD8BC
August 2, 2009 12:10 PM
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I never buy silverware. I just pocket them at restaurants.

I have a complete set for eight that were provided courtesy of \"76\" truck stop restaurants

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7 replies
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frodolives35
August 3, 2009 1:57 AM
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@AD8BC: Ha Ha stealing is so funny. What time do you leave home we need to go shopping? Ouch not so funny if its you being stole from.

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Costner
August 3, 2009 3:47 AM
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@frodolives35: I have to agree with you. I have actually been out with friends (more than once!) when someone grabbed a \"souvenir\" glass or in one case an ashtray. I actually told them to put it back and that it is incredibly tacky.

It is just amazing that people think it is no big deal to steal from others provided it is only a business who suffers the loss. I imagine if someone came over to their house and stole a fork and a knife or a mug that they thought was cool they would see it from another perspective.

Makes me wonder what goes on in people's heads sometimes.

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GuinevereRucker
August 5, 2009 3:00 AM
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@Costner: I agree with you. I understand that others are making a joke, and that's cool, but if you put your serious hat on for a moment, stealing is not ok.

Stealing silverware from a restaurant is one of those things I hadn't even thought about, and I roll my eyes at you collective bunch of petty thieves that think this is acceptable.

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god_forbids
August 4, 2009 10:59 PM
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@Thassodar: Do you think this is /b/ or something? Please just go back there. Now.

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Thassodar
August 3, 2009 3:33 AM
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@frodolives35: Ha ha taking this too seriously is so funny. Lighten up.

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Trai_Dep
August 2, 2009 2:14 PM
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@AD8BC: I tried doing the same thing with a dishwasher. Until he bit my hand.

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Julius Seizure
August 2, 2009 1:50 PM
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@AD8BC: My other half \"borrowed\" a fork from a chinese restaurant while I was paying for take-away.

To this day we refer to the place as \"The Purloined Fork Restaurant.\"

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MonkeyMonk
August 2, 2009 12:32 PM
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@AD8BC: When I was growing up, my families entire utensil collection consisted of purloined airline silverware -- complete with nice, engraved Delta or TWA logos in the handles. Decent quality too. I think my parents finally upgrade to real silverware sometime in the mid-90s.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
August 2, 2009 7:44 PM
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@MonkeyMonk: that would explain where my collection of airline utensils found at thrift stores came from. thanks!

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Lincolnsbeard33
August 2, 2009 12:26 PM
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I am just absolutely fascinated with the British class system. It is amazing that in this day in age there is still such a division of classes and they really do just look down on the lower classes.

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12 replies
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B.Waite
August 5, 2009 2:28 AM
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@pecan 3.14159265: In Britain, it's not uncommon to see the fork held tines-down and pointing away from the body. The knife is then used to push food onto the curved side of the fork.

Using your fork \"like a spoon\" is often considered an American import.

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Skipweasel
August 2, 2009 10:19 PM
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@Lincolnsbeard33: Of course we do - why else would one have them?

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MsAnthropy
August 2, 2009 2:01 PM
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@Lincolnsbeard33:

Please explain how the fact that some department store is bitching about how nobody buys overpriced cutlery sets anymore is evidence that \"they\" (\"they\" as in \"all British people\", rather than \"the Debenhams press office\") look down on what you refer to as \"the lower classes\"...? Not quite seeing it, myself.

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floraposte
August 2, 2009 5:52 PM
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@MsAnthropy: Agreed. Debenham's is trying to use class anxiety to browbeat people into buying stuff. One giveaway is the fish fork--which isn't actually a key element of a place setting, and it's actually viewed as a gimmicky Victorian affectation in some circles. So following Debenham's would actually make you non-U rather than U anyway.

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bohemian
August 2, 2009 1:18 PM
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@Lincolnsbeard33: Not behaving like an animal is a class thing? I knew what a proper place setting was when I was a kid.

Mistaking manners and etiquette for the real class system that exists seems like a distraction. Anyone even someone on minimum wage can decide how they want to behave or do things.

Did everyone else grow up eating Frankenberry with their fingers for dinner? There are days I weep for society.

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WorldHarmony
August 3, 2009 2:50 AM
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@bohemian: There is no \"proper\" way to set a table; there is the way that YOU learned, in YOUR family, in YOUR culture. \"Manners\" and \"etiquette\" are not natural, they are purely cultural, and therefore differ (in this diverse country, from family to family).

And yes, cultural customs like place settings are associated with class systems-hence the elaborate place settings in expensive restaurants with different utensils for different courses. The ability to afford multiple-course meals and multiple silverware to accompany them is a way of separating the haves with the have-nots. Those of us who aren't rich can still show we are\"cultured\" by adhering to a \"proper place setting\" (which, to some minds, makes us superior to the \"animals\" who don't).

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captadam
August 2, 2009 1:54 PM
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@bohemian: Sniff! Why I DO DECLARE!

... A \"proper\" place setting is a contrivance--a social norm that developed for no other reason than that it developed. Since it is not rooted in anything truly objective, it can change with time.

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The Porkchop Express
August 3, 2009 7:58 PM
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@captadam: Not to mention the waste of making, buying, and washing so many utensils for one stinking meal.


I mean what have you done to your fork eating salad that it can't be used for your steak?


Steak knife and regular knife? sure. but all these forks and spoons and even other knives? that is just pointless.

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psm321
August 2, 2009 1:53 PM
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@bohemian: It is absolutely a class thing when it is completely 100% pointless and kept up only for maintaining the tradition of the elite classes. Or do you think that having 3 different kinds of forks and 3 different kinds of knives for a single meal actually makes some practical sense? It's like ties. Why do we wear them?

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bohemian
August 2, 2009 2:15 PM
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@psm321: IIRC it started out as a cleanliness thing of not reusing a utensil for the next course and having a utensil suited for the task. Did it evolve into something a bit contrived, sure. If you were to put out every bit of potential silverware it would look like you dumped the drawer on the table. I guess I see the understanding of what a soup spoon is as one of those little things that keeps us from spiraling into Idiocracy.

I don't think ties should be mandated the way they are in the workplace. They are just a clothing accessory and should be worn because someone wants to. I do wish more people cared about their appearance enough to wear suits or ties or hats because they want to, not because they were forced to. But I would love to see fashion dictates loosened a bit at the same time. Mens fashion is too limited socially in too many places.

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Ichiro51
August 3, 2009 5:24 AM
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@bohemian: \"I do wish more people cared about their appearance enough to wear suits or ties or hats because they want to, not because they were forced to.\"

Yes!!!

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
August 2, 2009 2:11 PM
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@psm321: Oh, it has a point: It serves as a social marker saying, \"I understand what all these forks are for and therefore am high class.\"

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Ragman
August 3, 2009 12:21 AM
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@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): Not to mention \"I can afford extraneous silverware whilst the peons are using sporks\"

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Trai_Dep
August 2, 2009 12:58 PM
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@Lincolnsbeard33: Sure. Because the esteem and sympathy that working-class autoworkers received after their execs ran their business to the ground was so much more favorably covered by the media and cordially handled by the political elites when compared to Wall Street employees. Further, the financial industry received a pittance compared to the auto workers and pensioners. I especially enjoyed the fact that Wall Street salaries were permanently reduced, using what finance professionals in Tennessee make, because of the mess they made of their industry.
Nope, no class divisions in the US of A. None at all!

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ophmarketing
August 2, 2009 12:49 PM
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@Lincolnsbeard33: I'm just absolutely fascinated that people pretend there ISN'T a class system in the US.

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Lincolnsbeard33
August 2, 2009 1:30 PM
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@ophmarketing: I never said there wasn't however it is no where near as bad as it is across the pond. @Trai_Dep: Sorry but after your rampant Apple fan boi comments I can't take anything you read seriously

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PunditGuy
August 2, 2009 11:28 PM
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@Lincolnsbeard33:

@Trai_Dep: Sorry but after your rampant Apple fan boi comments I can't take anything you read seriously

lol, iPwn3d

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Trai_Dep
August 2, 2009 2:06 PM
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@Lincolnsbeard33: Thanks for announcing so forthrightfully that you're simply trolling for attention. Poor dear.

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socalrob of the 24 and a half century
August 2, 2009 12:31 PM
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I'm surprised that in our culture, this day and age and all, that we even use forks!


Taco's, Burritos, Hamburger, Chicken, French Fries, Sub sandwiches... None of those need forks nor knives.


Fast food did away with the need for utinsels.

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2 replies
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veronykah
August 2, 2009 11:39 PM
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@socalrob of the 24 and a half century: Not everyone eats fast food.
@bohemian: A knife is not standard in Thailand. All the food is cut into small pieces before you get it at the table. It is proper to use a fort and spoon there. It actually made more sense to me that way.

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bohemian
August 2, 2009 1:19 PM
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@socalrob of the 24 and a half century: There is an interesting bit in The End of Overeating where they mention that food manufacturers and chain restaurants have made food mushy or very easy to eat so you can consume more of it in a rapid fashion. Who needs a knife when all your food comes pre-chewed.

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Trai_Dep
August 2, 2009 12:40 PM
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Well, to be fair, with every citizen (at least of noble birth) owning a sword, how necessary is a butter knife?
And, since the rabble isn't allowed swords, they make due with oak cudgels. So does that mean British commoners have to use chopsticks to smear their toast?

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Julius Seizure
August 2, 2009 1:54 PM
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@Trai_Dep: Just think for a moment about the upper class trauma. Have you ever tried spreading Cheez-Wiz with a 300yr old sword?

There's a reason why family portraits have a LOT of eye patches.

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Trai_Dep
August 2, 2009 2:08 PM
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@Julius Seizure. (the CANUCK one): I thought it was from their trying to eat peas with 'em!

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wardawg
August 3, 2009 5:14 AM
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@Trai_Dep: \"I eat my peas with honey, I've done it all my life. It makes them taste quite funny but it keeps them on my knife!\"

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oldgraygeek
August 2, 2009 12:58 PM
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We need to help the poor Brits: let's box up some Sporx and ship them across the pond...

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2 replies
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Julius Seizure
August 2, 2009 1:56 PM
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@oldgraygeek: What is the sound of 1000 upper class Brits fainting?

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Trai_Dep
August 2, 2009 12:59 PM
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Tsk. Haven't they discovered the spork yet?

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1 replies
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The Porkchop Express
August 3, 2009 8:04 PM
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@Trai_Dep: has anyone invented the fife or knork? it's a fork with a cutting edge. of course you'd end up looking like the joker, but the time you would save.

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TCama
August 2, 2009 1:10 PM
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It's funny how a company can argue that the future of a nation depends upon that nation's people buying that company's products.

I mean, hell, it's by no means a new concept. But just to think that it's still as popular as ever.

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MyTQuinn
August 2, 2009 1:11 PM
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And in related news, 100% of those surveyed did not possess a toothbrush and saw no reason for buying one.

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2 replies
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ngoandy
August 2, 2009 1:33 PM
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@MyTQuinn: Burn!

I wasn't expecting a British teeth joke.

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MsAnthropy
August 2, 2009 2:02 PM
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@ngoandy:

I was. The story mentioned Britain, see. And British teeth jokes seem to be de rigeur in such situations.

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2 replies
August 2, 2009 1:18 PM
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Need to send them a couple million knorks.
Ah the knork. The perfect utensil.

Now if only someone would make a show about hunting, killing, preparing and eating all your food with a knork.
GENIUS!

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ColoradoShark
August 2, 2009 1:20 PM
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\"Using both a knife and a fork to eat has held this country in good stead for centuries. It's one of the mainstays of being British,\"

Well, thanks for summing up one of the mainstays of being British! Perhaps the accent is another one? And that's it? Are you saying Brits are that shallow? Way to insult your entire country while hawking your wares!

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guymandude
August 2, 2009 1:37 PM
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Piss on the british. I have no use for wannabe nazis that want to point a camera and microphone at absolutely everything. You think people who fought the germans in WW2 would have a little better perspective on things. If this (forks) is what they're worrying about its no wonder they're a 3rd rate \"empire\".

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LastError
August 2, 2009 1:39 PM
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Meh. Flatware is pretentious.

I'm eating nearly everything with chopsticks these days. Because I can, not because I have to.

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6 replies
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FaustianSlip
August 3, 2009 4:44 AM
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@LastError: After living in Japan, I'm convinced that chopsticks are by far the best utensils for eating virtually any kind of salad. They put salad forks to shame.

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Pal
August 3, 2009 2:10 AM
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@LastError: My preferred utensil. As long as the food is prepared for chopsticks consumption, there's no need for additional wares.

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Coles_Law
August 2, 2009 1:49 PM
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@LastError: I tried that once, but it took me seven hours to finish my soup.

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Pal
August 3, 2009 2:09 AM
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@Coles_Law: Funny joke.

For the uninformed, you just drink the soup out of the bowl and eat the soup bits with the chopsticks.

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spittingangels
August 2, 2009 9:56 PM
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@Coles_Law:

What you need are hollow chopsticks so that you can use one as a straw.

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FaustianSlip
August 2, 2009 1:41 PM
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\"Using both a knife and a fork to eat has held this country in good stead for centuries. It's one of the mainstays of being British.\"

The other, of course, being the ASBO.

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JulesNoctambule
August 2, 2009 6:08 PM
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@FaustianSlip: Ah, the ASBO -- right up there with the football hooligans! Sometimes literally.

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MsAnthropy
August 2, 2009 1:57 PM
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@FaustianSlip:

Spat my tea on my keyboard at that one! I'd forgotten about ASBOs.

I possess just as many knives as I do forks, but the knives rarely come out of the drawer. That'll be because most of what I cook doesn't require a knife. Not sure why I'd need a full place setting when I sit down to eat a bowl of pasta.

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FaustianSlip
August 3, 2009 4:26 AM
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@MsAnthropy: Heh- glad to be of service! I went to graduate school in York, and if you went into town in the morning, you'd see all of that day's potential ASBO recipients skulking on the steps of the city courthouse. Good times!

We don't really use knives that much, either, unless we're eating chicken or steak or something that actually, y'know, requires cutting. Otherwise, we don't bother putting them out- there's really no point in putting out four knives only to collect them again, unused, and put them back in the silverware drawer. Of course, I'm a heathen colonist, so even when we do have meat, we usually just eat it raw and tear it off the bone with our bare hands.

Personally, I'm not too worried if Debenham's is upset that their silverware sales are on a downward spiral. Though thinking about it, it seems to me that in explaining what a fish knife is for, for example, they're more likely to talk people out of buying them. I can see it now:

\"How often do we have fish, anyway?\"
\"What, like with chips?\"
\"No, actual fish!\"
\"Oh, hardly ever. Our Loretta won't eat it, you see. Not after that incident at her hen night in Malaga.\"
\"Guess we don't need these, then!\"

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smileboot
August 2, 2009 2:11 PM
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Being an ex-pat i think the the knife thing is stupid. But the soup/desert spoon i totally agree with. I am to this day amazed that its near impossible to get a soup spoon here. It just makes sense to have one. Don't judge soup spoons until you have used one. It makes a world of difference when eating some scotch broth or good ol tomato soup with some cheese taties.

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Sian
August 3, 2009 7:33 AM
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@smileboot: sorry but I have not found a utensil as perfectly suited for its job as the Chinese soup spoon. Puts the western soup spoon to SHAME.

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The Porkchop Express
August 3, 2009 8:11 PM
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@subtlefrog: You know what you need? Some Indian scientists. Hand use is the way to go there.

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bohemian
August 2, 2009 8:32 PM
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@smileboot: Some restaurants have them. Good luck finding them at a regular retail store. I think the only stores I have seen them in was a restaurant supply store. I looked at Macy's to see if the more expensive sets carried them and no luck.
[www1.macys.com]

Soup spoons, dessert forks, even iced tea spoons have routine uses and benefits. Fish forks and other obscure cutlery not so much.
Soup spoons are rounder and deeper than a regular spoon and work better for scooping up liquid.
Dessert forks are shorter and work well for grabbing smaller bites of desserts without them falling apart.
Iced tea spoons work great for things like malts, iced coffee and well, tea.

Just doing my part to keep the common man down through proper cutlery!

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OMAC
August 2, 2009 6:06 PM
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@smileboot:

I have to agree, I do prefer eating soup with a soup spoon because of the shape and I haven't ever seen them at retail. Not even Ikea carries them.

Now would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to what cheese taties are? Thanks!

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FooSchnickens - Full of SCAR
August 2, 2009 4:12 PM
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Maybe they also forgot that people in the UK also have to show ID for buying any kind of cutlery. Even pizza cutters!

But, you know, what does some plucky yank know about anything.

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Sian
August 3, 2009 7:34 AM
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@FooSchnickens: can you buy a stab-proof knife without ID?

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Megalomania
August 2, 2009 9:22 PM
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@FooSchnickens: When pizza cutters are outlawed, only outlaws will cut pizza.

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sevenwhitehorses
August 2, 2009 5:27 PM
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I am missing something here, I see if people decide to use just one fork the number of forks sold would drop. What i fail to see is how that corresponds to a drop in the quantity of knives sold. Don't most of us use a knife and a fork to eat? If this is so then would not the number of knives sold per for increase?

I would appreciate finding out where I am going wrong in my view of this.

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floraposte
August 3, 2009 12:26 AM
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@sevenwhitehorses: They've phrased it misleadingly--not so much \"a single fork\" as \"only a fork rather than a fork and a knife.\" I think it's got more to do with the increasing popularity of takeout and ready-made meals/frozen dinners than American table manners, actually.

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Sian
August 3, 2009 7:35 AM
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@floraposte: Aside from specific meals like steak (Which has its own knife!) I consider the table knife to be a fairly useless implement, mostly making up for laziness of the chef/cook to prepare the food into properly-sized pieces.

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Skipweasel
August 2, 2009 5:59 PM
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Well, I'm forked.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 2, 2009 6:01 PM
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First off, eating with both a fork and a knife is something that is often necessary. But why should I place a knife on the table if I'm eating pasta? I don't need a knife for pasta. If my meal requires cutting, I need a knife. If it doesn't, why should I get a knife, so it can sit there?

Place settings have a time and a place...if the restaurants I go to want to give me two forks and two spoons, that's great. I don't have to wash the extra utensils. But when I'm at home, that's my time and money spent washing spoons and forks just because I didn't want to use two different forks for my entree and salad. No thanks. I'll just use one fork.

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subtlefrog
August 2, 2009 6:25 PM
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I work in the middle of nowhere Central America, often with teams of British scientists - and you can always tell the Brits from the Americans because of the cutlery usage: even in the middle of a backpacking trip, the Brits are using their knives and forks perfectly. I'm using my filthy fingers, feeling a bit like a marine, poking fun at them. I've often wondered about people so obsessed with cutlery. That can't be normal.

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msquier
August 2, 2009 9:41 PM
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I don't get it either; I'll use a knife when I NEED to cut something or I have a particularly messy burger that's going to spill all over me if I don't cut it into bite-size pieces. Otherwise, what's the stinking point?

I can't stand class lines but unfortunately they're alive and well. I moved from the Mid-Atlantic to the South last year and the upper-crust southerners can't stand me. I'm a slightly eccentric working class girl who gets along great with the rednecks and middle class types but the country club set down here might as well BE British. They hate me with a passion for some kooky reason.

Once me and the hubby's income goes up I'm tempted to go into the swankiest country club in the area and pull an Al Czervick act. Now THAT would make me feel really good!

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HauseMan
August 5, 2009 9:00 PM
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@msquier: While on vacation to Jekyll Island in July, my sister and I decided to tour the big Jekyll Island Club Hotel (which I like to call \"The Snobatorium\"). Upon checking out the grand dining room's menu for that evening, and observing the high-priced entrees, I quietly let out an Al Czervik of my own. I think we all remember the dining room scene on Caddyshack very well, don't we ??? LOL LOL LOL

\"This steak still has marks from where the jockey was hittin' it\".

Plus, when I pass a golf course, I always yell out \"It's in the hole, it's in the hole\".

I don't even have a dining room table in my 1BR apartment...no need, nor room, for one. I sit at my desk with my \"consumables\" and enjoy threads like this one.

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wvFrugan
August 3, 2009 12:51 AM
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I do lament the lost art of serving utensils, mostly just the butter knife: The butter version of a double dip is frightening. A slotted spoon for certain items is critical to efficient serving. A gravy & soup ladle is a must at times. A single spoon to serve everything often becomes a sight. Please don't serve yourself with a place setting utensil already used!

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Pal
August 3, 2009 2:03 AM
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I'm a knife and fork guy myself, knife in right hand and all. Why struggle with a fork in one hand when the other is idly doing nothing?

Sure, I look like \"that guy\" when everyone's eating with their lonely forks, but it's really convenient and comfortable. I crave the fork and knife set even at barbecues.

I'm not British.

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The_IT_Crone
August 3, 2009 3:20 AM
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Um. I use a knife to cut things. Why else would you use one?

/uncultured and lovin' it.

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P_Smith
August 3, 2009 4:11 AM
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As one who has British parents, I have never understood the American habit of \"fork in left hand when cutting, switch to right hand to put in mouth\".


It amazes me to see so many people who either have a ridiculous attitude towards using their left hand, or they're just that uncoordinated.

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FaustianSlip
August 3, 2009 4:36 AM
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@P_Smith: It always amazes me to see people in some countries still trying to eat their food with two sticks. Haven't they realized by now that a shovel is more efficient at picking things up than two pool cues? What a ridiculous attitude toward efficient food consumption.

As Floraposte says, culinary custom isn't about efficiency- if it was, we certainly wouldn't be having a discussion about using two different forks, two different spoons and multiple knives over the course of one meal (which is, of course, the traditionally \"correct\" way to do things). It's just the way the eating custom has evolved, the same way various Asian countries continue to use chopsticks, other places won't eat with the left hand at all, et cetera, et cetera. And I say that as an American who doesn't do the fork switching thing at all (maybe because I lived in the UK briefly as a kid, but I don't recall my parents ever doing it, either- clearly, this needs investigating).

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floraposte
August 3, 2009 4:23 AM
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@P_Smith: That's like saying it's ridiculous to spell \"color\" without a u. It's just the correct way to do things in the U.S., while a different way is correct elsewhere. Remember, we're talking civilized eating, so it's not about efficiency--otherwise lowering our heads to the plate and inhaling would be the pinnacle of table manners.

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UniComp
August 3, 2009 4:23 AM
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Tradition and etiquette is great and all, but man does it waste time. Just be polite, you shouldn't have to go to Finishing School or anything. British people...

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Joey_Brill
August 3, 2009 4:33 AM
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I once spent a dinner fascinated by a Brit (we weren't even drunk).

He used the knife to layer different foods onto his fork and then placed neat packages into his mouth. It was pure architecture and destruction.

The fork was flipped from my accustomed shovel shape to more of an elevated form where the tines were higher than his hand. I was impressed.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
August 3, 2009 5:30 AM
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there are more ridiculously extraneous pieces of cutlery in existence than most people have ever even heard of.
many years ago i picked up a home ec textbook from the 50's with a silverware chart in it.
which started my odd utensil collection habit [it's cheap at thrift stores and doesn't take up much room in a drawer, plus you can use them]
i actually own two ice cream forks [serving pieces]

things come into fashion, and they go out again

in the middle ages most europeans cut their food with their belt knives - the same knife they used for everything else, be it shortening a leather bridle strap or scraping gunk off their shoes
see how much more 'civilized' we are today?

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
August 3, 2009 6:03 AM
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@wvFrugan: no, haven't found one in a thrift store yet. i do have a lot of olive forks though. and a cute lemon squeezer shaped like a bird.
i still haven't identified this one though: [www.flickr.com]
it's the size of an olive fork but it's a configuration i haven't figured out yet

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Sian
August 3, 2009 7:22 AM
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@undefined: @elganador: [www.220.ro]

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valleygirl_18002
August 3, 2009 1:49 PM
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Besides the spork, who could forget the knork:
[www.knork.net]


and this:
[knifewrench.ytmnd.com]

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Corydon
August 3, 2009 4:59 PM
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The amusing thing is that after the very first post on the \"Civilized Dining Campaign\" blog, some Hyacinth Bucket posted the one and only comment explaining how the campaign itself was wrong on the etiquette used in \"grand private houses in the UK\".

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HauseMan
August 5, 2009 8:38 PM
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I'm one who doesn't give a damn about \"prim and proper\", if only because I've got precious little time to eat (consume any quantity of consumables) and get back to one of several jobs.

Plus, as a right-hander, I don't see why I HAVE TO have my fork on the left side of the plate...doesn't make sense to me. I see it all as stuck-up. If I need a knife, I'll either have one at the ready, or I'll get my sorry butt up and get one...it's not that big a deal.

But to fuss over what amounts to nothing more than human feeding time, is a waste of time to me. If I can have a good meal AND conversation with others, FINE, but snobbery needs not be a part of the scene. Tradition is fine, but not on an everyday basis. C'mon, a PBJ and chips for lunch is no justification for \"proper place settings\". Unless, of course, you're one of these rich snobs with more money than sense.

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