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bloggerX
August 27, 2009 8:37 PM
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It seems Ben wasn't joking on April Fools day when he announced there would be more kitties in the photo captions of stories...

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Trai_Dep
August 28, 2009 2:41 PM
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@bloggerX: Not only that, but Ben & Meg encourage their kitties to strut across their buildings' window sills. So the passerby down below can see them at the windows from the park below.
N-A-K-E-D!

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geeky_reader
August 28, 2009 1:37 PM
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@bloggerX: Unfortunately, for Consumerist Poland, Ben photoshops the head of a Caucasian male onto the body of every kitty.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 28, 2009 1:48 PM
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@geeky_reader: In Consumerist Poland, the kitteh discriminates against you!

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stpauliegirl
August 28, 2009 1:23 AM
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@bloggerX: I'm surprised you just noticed! ;) I, for one, welcome our new cat overlords.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 28, 2009 12:49 PM
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@stpauliegirl: Seriously. The cat photo is the first thing I look for!

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Trai_Dep
August 27, 2009 10:52 PM
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@bloggerX: Hereabouts, we never joke about Teh Kitteh.

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Taliskan
August 27, 2009 9:48 PM
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@bloggerX: I supported the idea then and I support the idea now. I, for one, love the cat pictures. :D

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bloggerX
August 27, 2009 11:00 PM
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@Laura Northrup: Oh no it's not! Me loves me kitty!

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sk1d
August 27, 2009 8:48 PM
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I've definitely noticed more and more profs requiring you to participate in the online thing the textbook provides which means you have to buy it new because the access code only works for 6 months.

The custom books I've had to use are usually 1/3 the price because they have fewer chapters than the full text.

I'll bet a lot of profs pick their textbooks based on which book provides the best powerpoint slides, so they don't have to do that work. Many times I've seen slides with the publisher's logo in the corner.

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P=mv
August 28, 2009 10:26 AM
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@sk1d: [quote]I've definitely noticed more and more profs requiring you to participate in the online thing the textbook provides which means you have to buy it new because the access code only works for 6 months.[/quote]

Not necessarily true. I have actually never found an online access that doesn't sell the access separately. The average price is $35-$45. It usually isn't that difficult to find a used book online so cheap that it doesn't make this a viable and attractive option. I have also found many codes that work for 1 full year. Saved my bank account for Stats 1&2 where both professors required the publisher's online access.

Bookstores may have their stock dictated to them but they aren't free of sleeze, like any company. I had the store manager of the bookstore at my college proceed to tell me that because my Biology professor is requiring access to the college's free webct, essentially part of the class is put up online by the professor, that I had to buy new or lose out on half my grade. Webct is provided free to every student regardless of whether or not you buy the book. You buy tuition = you get access to webct. I wonder how many freshmen fell for that number.

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treythalomew
August 27, 2009 8:54 PM
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@sk1d: Three of my four classes I'm taking this semester require the online portion of the text. The homework is automatically graded and it allows the teacher to teach many classes at once and have short class times.

However I got really lucky with my business calculus because you can just buy the book in ebook form. I grabbed it with a coupon I found online for 45 dollars. The people who bought the book from the bookstore were out 180 dollars for the *exact same content*.

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CaptJax
August 28, 2009 2:06 AM
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@treythalomew: $180 for a book is obscene. As is $45 for an eBook...

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narc1
August 28, 2009 1:14 AM
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@treythalomew:
which is just another demonstration of the lies these bookstores tell us, size of the business has little to do with how much they pay for books in bulk. I know my university marks up its books quite a bit and the profs sometimes have the gall to assign books that are neither on reserve or available for cheap in other forms, Ive been textbook free since my second year with the exception of a few *low* priced books that I actually have used beyond the classes (under $50).

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ExtraCelestial
August 27, 2009 8:55 PM
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\"locally-owned college bookstore\"


Is there any other kind?

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lmarconi
August 28, 2009 3:29 AM
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@TinkishDelight:
Many on-campus bookstores are run by Barnes and Noble's university division (even if B&N is not in the bookstore's name).
I worked at one of these stores and well, maybe S's \"don't blame the bookstore\" line is appropriate for a locally-owned college bookstore, but it's absolutely inappropriate for B&N.
B&N college bookstore admins have no problem taking advantage of students. The one I worked at allowed students to order their books over a month in advance, but would only tell students what titles the professor required them to order, not the ISBN numbers (even when specifically asked). Even though online orders were available one month in advance, in store textbook browsing and purchasing only began one week before school started, which helped to ensure that students could not find out what books they needed, order them online and still have them in time for school. Further, students could request used during online ordering, but if no used was available for a title we gave the new and charged the new price - there was no way to opt out and only purchase the titles that are available used.
In some cases S has a good point. My supervisors repeatedly told professors they could only buy back students' books if the professor let them know in advance that they'd be using them again - many professors never responded. Then again if your professor only teaches the class every other semester, even if they use it every year, B&N won't buy it back for more than a dollar, even if they know it will be used again in 6 mos.
Overall, from my experience, B&N textbook personnel encouraged students to buy unnecessary special editions, even when others were available, and used every possible strategy to prevent students from looking for a better deal elsewhere.

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pecan 3.14159265
August 28, 2009 12:52 PM
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@lmarconi: My college bookstore used to be independent and run by my university, but I think after my freshman year, it changed to a B&N and magically - magically, I tell you - things were streamlined, people were competent, books were organized. It was like the hammer of good organization skills struck the staff at my bookstore, and suddenly students could actually get something done! I, for one, thank B&N for taking over.

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sponica
August 28, 2009 2:33 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: there is that advantage to a B&N run bookstore...

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
August 28, 2009 3:27 AM
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@TinkishDelight: i have a friend who works in the campus bookstore in athens GA and she said they are part of a chain, but not barnes and noble - not sure which one. but she said one of the many where i live in another state is one of their stores.

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ExtraCelestial
August 27, 2009 9:09 PM
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@TinkishDelight: I think I just made my own bingo square, so I'll add-


I bought and kept all of my textbooks, mostly because I'm a dork, but also because I still frequently use them. This is great and really thorough advice. They were bundle crazy with my books, but my professors were always really cool about forgoing bundle materials and letting us use older editions, they would even run copies of chapters that had changed or were missing. I went to a tiny dirty hippie school though. A lot of the profs didn't even use books.


Also pay attention to the rate of return for used books. I remember my bookstore would give more money back during certain times of the year.

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Laura Northrup
August 27, 2009 9:04 PM
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@TinkishDelight: Yes, there is - Barnes & Noble has been buying up college bookstores across the country, ranging from tiny liberal arts colleges to big universities. When I wrote this story: [consumerist.com] I heard from students all over the country who received the same exact e-mail.

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Vandelay Import Export
August 27, 2009 10:12 PM
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@Laura Northrup: Barnes and Noble seems to disguise the fact they have taken over these book stores.

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corkdork
August 27, 2009 9:03 PM
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@TinkishDelight:

Well, at my old university, the on-campus bookstore was run by Barnes and Noble.

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mandathebear
August 27, 2009 8:58 PM
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I always hate this time of the year...

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samurailynn
August 27, 2009 9:07 PM
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I had a college professor that wrote a book and it was required for his class. Oh yeah, also, that book was a book with tear out worksheet pages, and he required the actual pages from the book be used for the assignments (not copies). Great guy.

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Scrutinizer
August 28, 2009 12:21 PM
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@samurailynn: As an engineering student home work was routinely assigned to solve several problems at the end of a chapter. It seemed that ever other year these problems were reordered making it very difficult to use a used book.

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stpauliegirl
August 28, 2009 1:25 AM
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@samurailynn: I had a prof that made us buy books written by her friends. The prof was mentioned by name in two of the three books. I had a lot of fun writing her course eval!

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lincolnparadox
August 28, 2009 1:20 AM
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@samurailynn: There is a trend at state universities that prevents professors from making royalties off of students at their university.

They aren't looking out for the students. The royalty money goes to the department instead of the prof.

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AnthonyC
August 27, 2009 9:11 PM
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Just wait till all you science majors get to upper level, interdisciplinary classes where your some professors tell you, \"No one book covers what I want to do in this course, so I'll be drawing on material from these 7 textbooks...\" :-)

Also, this is one reason I'm glad my school didn't make you choose your courses until AFTER the first week of class, when you'd already seen the syllabus and had a chance to talk to the professor, visit the bookstore, and shop online.

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Wombatish
August 27, 2009 11:27 PM
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@acvicari: History, my friend.

I have a friend who's a PhD in some crazy specific area of British history, but for his 4000 levels he usually had to have about 7-10 different, huge history books, often so obscure that you had to track down the author/publisher and order directly from them if you wanted to buy from anywhere but the bookstore.

Oh, and they were half special topics classes (or the like) so there was no finding ones from previous semesters either!

He regularly spent 2-3 times the cost of the class in books.
/do not want

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Trai_Dep
August 28, 2009 3:20 PM
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@Wombatish: My schools had primers for just this purpose, and they were \"published\" by the local Kinko's, so the costs were low.
Good campus bookstores and professors CAN work to make things easier for students, but it's not automatic.
That said, when most of a book is used, I like having the whole book. I kept them as well, and they have their own section on my bookcases. Whereas the primers ended up being boxed and stored at Mom's along with nakid Trai pictures on bearskin rugs. Err, baby pictures, I want to make clear.
It does seem sciencey majors get the biggest shaft. Their texts are crazy expensive for what seems to be no reason other than they can get away with it.

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Wombatish
August 27, 2009 11:28 PM
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@Wombatish: Those were his undergraduate books, btw. He said Graduate school either got way better (no books!) or way worse (13 books was the record, I believe, and they only used one chapter out of one, didn't even touch another).

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dru_zod
August 28, 2009 12:31 AM
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@Wombatish: A friend of mine was a history major and I believe she had something like 14 supplemental texts that she was supposed to buy for one class during her senior year. I went with her to get books that semester and I remember being very glad that I was NOT a history major.

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narc1
August 28, 2009 1:18 AM
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@dru_zod:
being a history minor I somewhat feel their pain, Im lucky that my school has an archive of a library with texts as obscure as 19th century scientific journals on the views held of Chiapas Indians and their \"humanity\". It's all about how well a school is organized, I find if you're paying so much for tuition everything needs to be provided in order for you to accomplish your academic goals.

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goodfellow_puck
August 27, 2009 9:13 PM
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I never bought a single text from the bookstore--from my time at university or my time in a private college. It is a complete waste of money.

My method:
- FIND OUT what books you will \"need\" via online syllabus, emailing the professor, scoping out the bookstore for titles linked to your prof/class, or even waiting until day one of class.

- GO ONLINE to half.com, amazon, or similar used-book carrier. Look up the edition that was just BEFORE the one you need. Comp & Lit edition 11? Look up 10. These editions are 99% the EXACT SAME as the edition just before them with maybe a chapter shuffled, but publishers switching up \"editions\" mean less chance for used books to bite off their market. Poor students stuck with the last edition can't get rid of them anywhere and I've gotten texts for as little as ONE DOLLAR. I think I never spent above $10.

- USE YOUR LIBRARY to supplement! If your \"old\" edition is missing a chapter the teacher wants you to use, or you're waiting for your book to come in, tap the library's resources. Both schools I went to were required to keep one reference copy of any books the professors were using. I could go in for an hr and read the chapter I needed, or make copies of work pages with no problem. In fact, towards the end of my schooling I didn't buy books AT ALL and just hit up the library for all my needs.

Tips:
- I found that even in my core classes, texts were barely used. Teachers would often teach straight from the book so taking notes was fine, or they'd make copies of the pages they wanted to most highlight! As a freshman it might be harder to pinpoint those classes, but as you progress make note of which teachers test from class materials and not books.

- ASK YOUR PROFESSOR for help. They know how ridiculous book prices are. Remind them you're a poor student. Ask them whether the library stocks copies or how different editions may be. Don't ever ask if you're going to \"need\" a book, 'cause the answer will always be an offended YES, but starting the dialouge may be enough for them to say, \"Oh, I can make copies for you!\" Or donate a book to your cause, or otherwise give you ideas on how to work around things.

- SHARE with a classmate. If you can't find your book on the cheap, or the library is crappy, go in on a book with a friend. Very few classes will need you to follow the book in-class, but you can sit next to your friend otherwise. Syllabuses will tell you what's next if you need to make copies. It's not perfect, but it's better than dropping $150 on a book you'll never touch again.

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BytheSea
August 30, 2009 8:10 PM
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@goodfellow_puck: I think some students are embarrased to have a library copy of a book, like they're cheap or not as invested in the class. It took me until grad school to getover that and I wish I had earlier. Why did I buy copies of all those classics for all my english classes? I read them once and the resale value was v low because they were just paperbacks of The Awakening etc. In my grad program for writing, I got all my assigned reading from the library.

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squinko
August 28, 2009 1:27 PM
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@goodfellow_puck: Another good piece of advice: check the bulletin boards around campus. People will post fliers about their ECON 101 book they didn't need/don't want to keep and will sell to you for half of what the bookstore would.

Also, some friends of mine discovered that the local community college wouldn't use a textbook unless it had been used at the state university the next town over first. So if someone couldn't find a used copy of a book at the community college's bookstores, they'd head to the bookstores for the state school and find one there. I don't know how common this practice is, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to check.

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narc1
August 28, 2009 1:20 AM
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@goodfellow_puck:
great advice, its something I found out after my 2nd year when I got sick and tired of shelling out for text books that I never really got any value out of, even when the prof said it was required. Libraries and books on reserve have been my salvation.

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Coles_Law
August 27, 2009 10:55 PM
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@goodfellow_puck: I agree with most everything you said. One word of caution about old editions, however: While old editions work fine for math/intro science/ lit classes, some engineering texts are based on building codes that can change, and the new edition will be significantly different. Your advice is good though- ask the professor!

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subtlefrog
August 28, 2009 6:40 AM
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@Coles_Law: Depends on the science book, too. Some fields the info is changing a lot faster than others, and it will really depend on the focus of the class, and when the last revision was. Like you and goodfellow_puck said - ask the prof!

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floraposte
August 27, 2009 9:54 PM
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@goodfellow_puck: As a professor, I fully support all of that. Your tips are particularly good for literature-type classes, and I always tell my students up front that as long as they've got the complete text, I don't care where they got it or what edition it is (except for rare exceptions).

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sponica
August 27, 2009 9:31 PM
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I'd have to disagree with the OP here. Perhaps because this bookstore is locally owned and not run by B&N, but I've had teachers INTENTIONALLY order the older edition, and voila, the newest brand spanking new one (complete with bundle) was ordered by the bookstore.

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lincolnparadox
August 28, 2009 1:26 AM
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@sponica: I'm a professor, and I've had a few scrapes with the bookstore over that exact problem. New editions are released in Jan/Feb. I guess the expectation is that gives the professor enough time to convert their course for the following Fall. However, I teach my class every term (including Summer). The bookstore was hesitant to order the old edition. Their reason is buyback value for students. I don't know what the actual reason is, but these days I email my syllabus to every student a week before classes start, and I don't have any quizzes/assignments due for 14 days.

\"Buy on amazon.\" I tell them. Forget the bookstore and its 25% retail markup. They don't have the students' best interests in mind.

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arstal
August 27, 2009 9:35 PM
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Look up ratemyprofessor.com for your prof, often that will give you a hint of what the prof does, or whether you should try to avoid them altogether.

From there you can decide whether to get the book or not.

one prof told us that he was not legally allowed to tell us we could not get books, but he did say he never bought a textbook in college as an undergrad.

More and more students just refused to buy books. The system is strating to break.

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narc1
August 28, 2009 1:23 AM
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@arstal:
Perfect story, I've spoken to many professors who have admitted that telling people to get textbooks is something they have to do by their departments due to standing agreements with the campus bookstore. Ratemyprof.com is a great site when you have the option between two professors and helps you choose the lesser of two evils, they're just becoming way too expensive with book bundles reaching $200-300 I refuse to buy anything above $75 which also means I haven't purchased a textbook in quite some time.

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arstal
August 28, 2009 12:59 PM
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@narc1:

Well at UNCG (where I last went), in their econ dept. I can tell you that only for one prof did I have to buy the textbook, and that was Sheran (who is an awesome prof in spite of that, and that's with her giving me my only bad grade when I came back)

One other option you have- look for international editions. I've found in some cases, if you can't get it via America- you can sometimes save a bit ordering from India- but it may take a long time to get there.
I wouldn't recommend that except as a last ditch emergency- and if you're related to Clark Howard though.

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ikimashokie
August 27, 2009 9:36 PM
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Free hand-me-down/loaner books rock. My last year and a half of college, I think I maybe bought two books.

One semester, I saw no reason to spend whatever on a bundle with two newer versions of books I already had, especially when I still had not cracked one of them and was certain I wouldn't be using it.

It turned out that out of 40 or so homework problems, maybe 8 were completely different between the 2nd and 4th eds. Thankfully, my friends had no problem letting copy down the homework problems.

The next semester they had updated the edition used, and I also found a bookshelf in the department head's waiting area with several copies of every book currently in use by the dept. That same semester we also found out there were two versions of the same edition of the current book for another class. Ah well.

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redkamel
August 27, 2009 9:36 PM
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The best tip I can give is to make friends with people in your class. Class fame spreads by word of mouth; people in your class almost surely know someone who has taken it before. That person will know what books you need, or don't need. The online professor ratings are good too.

My method:
#0: research the class and take te class with a friend if possible. Resources now doubled.
#1: find out if I even need books, and which ones.
#2: find someone who just took the class (spread the word in the dorms/at a party), and buy/borrow their books. Often the convenience of you picking it up, paying more than the bookstore, or promising to return it to them, can be enough to net you a bargain.
-Side note: Believe it or not, I discovered \"looking for books\" was a great way to start a conversation with girls. It is totally not expected, and not threatening or creepy in any way.
#3: if that doesn't work I hit up ebay/amazon, or wait for that first week of class and see if anyone is dropping. Swoop in on their books that they probably got used/from a friend.
#4: If I am this far, I have now weigh the risk of no book/wrong book with buying the book new.

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dru_zod
August 28, 2009 12:27 AM
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@redkamel: I totally agree with this suggestion. Asking people who had taken the class before saved me a lot of money. There were at least four classes I took in my first two years of college in which I never needed a book. The professors would never tell you that you didn't need one (though one of them hinted at it), but I knew people who took the classes the year before me and they said the book was totally unnecessary. I saved roughly $300 by not buying those books and my friends were right...I never once needed the books for anything.

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Amish Undercover
August 27, 2009 9:42 PM
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A former statistics grad student and I also have gotten sick of (1) costly textbook, (2) crappy textbooks, and (3) new editions with nothing new. We've started the following project for an open-source statistics textbook. You can see a blurb before we launch the website:

[www.openintro.org]

The website will formally launch in about a month. I like to think the statistics community is near the top at endorsing open-source. Hopefully that will be the case when we begin approaching departments to gauge interest. (I've been encouraged after some discussions with teaching faculty.)

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dohtem
August 28, 2009 1:40 AM
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@statgrad: Slightly offtopic but I have always wondered, what does one do with a graduate degree in Statistics?

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Amish Undercover
August 28, 2009 2:48 AM
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@dohtem: The field is so general that it is hard to try to describe what statisticians do. My brief attempt: statisticians analyze data of all sorts and often but certainly not always focus on evaluating risk, error, and estimation. A few examples of particular jobs in particular fields:

finance: evaluation risk in stock portfolios.
biostatistics: estimate public health risks, determine whether there is convincing evidence that a new drug does better than the current treatment, etc.
genomics: identify gene expressions.

To give you an idea of why it is hard to box statistics in...

post office: statisticians code the software that reads the zip code on mail so it doesn't need to be done by hand. (Or if a non-statistician is writing the software, they are employing statistical techniques.)

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rugman11
August 27, 2009 9:49 PM
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You can also ask your professor if he has an extra copy of the book he or she would be willing to place on reserve at the library. Many times profs will have extra copies they have received from the publisher and they can usually put them on reserve at the library for students to check out for a couple of hours at a time. This could be the best way to get a hold of a free book if the library hasn't purchased it.

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AHT
August 27, 2009 9:59 PM
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A few protips from a friendly librarian if you're planning on using your college library:

-Please do not mark up those textbooks! You laugh now, but when you open a textbook full of someone else's notes and highlighter dribbles... Same goes for those doritos crumbs.

-Plan ahead. The book you need might be out. No, we can't tell you who has it. Yes, we can tell you the day it's due back. No, we can't go take it out of their dorm room if they decide they'd rather pay the overdue fine than return it on time. Be prepared to make alternate arrangements.

-Ask your professor about getting a reserve copy of the textbook made available. Some professors do this automatically. Some just need to be reminded. If your professor asks us to put it on reserve we will be happy to do so.

-If the book you need isn't there, it could be one of any number of reasons. Don't yell at the librarian about it. He or she is trying to help you, and we'll be much more happy to do so if you treat us with respect. (You'd be amazed how many students don't get this. You guys will be smarter than them, right?)

That being said, good luck with the semester and the reference desk will be more than happy to show you a whole bunch of time and money saving research tips, so you should come make friends with us.

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crichton007
August 27, 2009 10:02 PM
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I had a professor (once) who I worked with that mentioned that the text book he selected he did primarily because it would be less expensive for the students. Ironically it was the one time that I wished the teacher had gotten something nicer: it was the 100 class for what eventually became my major. That, and I still regret more than 10 years later selling my psychology textbook back; I really liked it and didn't realize I had sold it back until it was too late.

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ogremustcrush
August 27, 2009 10:26 PM
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Here's a hint for those buying and selling used textbooks online: Buy at the end of a term, sell at the beginning.

I've noticed when looking for books for my classes that if I get them a couple months before class starts, they can be very cheap, but the price incrementally goes up as it gets closer to the term. Now, seeing this trend, its easy to determine that the best time to sell my old books is when the price is high at the beginning of the term, when people are more willing to pay the high prices. Now, using this method for buying does require you actually know what classes you plan on taking significantly ahead of time, otherwise you don't know what to buy, or you may buy books for a class you don't end up taking. It also works best for fall semester classes, buy the books for them right as spring semester ends, the short gap between fall and spring reduces any cost savings from this strategy, but again if you have your next term planned significantly in advance, you can get a better deal on books for spring halfway through the fall semester.

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Amish Undercover
August 28, 2009 3:51 AM
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@ogremustcrush: I once purchased two math books for a total of about $30 at the end of the spring term for my personal reference not realizing they were current/new editions. Three months later I resold them (beginning of fall term) since I no longer had a need for them. I made a profit of about $70. I'm not sure the market is still this extreme, however, but I agree good timing is key to saving/making the most.

A good option is to just list on Amazon at the end of a term for a reasonable price above the lowest offer. As the quarter nears, the cheaper books get picked off (provided the market isn't flooded with used books). At worst, Amazon charges you nothing if it doesn't sell and you can relist for free.

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Nicole
August 27, 2009 10:51 PM
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I had a bio class senior year where the lab book was available only as an ebook, you needed a special program to view it, and 9 times out of 10 when you tried to print it, it wouldn't work.

The teacher had never used it before, she was trying to save us money - which she did - but she had no idea how horrible the system would be. I don't think she did it again the next year because we all complained so much about it.

In that case, I'd rather have payed more and had an actual, physical book.

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misanthropic777
August 27, 2009 10:58 PM
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Let me provide a little perspective about the classes I teach:


- Our textbook for the 101 class I teach is standardized for the entire department. We teach 35+ sections, so it has to be. That often lets the bookstore get a better deal, but also means I had no say in choosing the book.


- We are selling an unbound version this year not because it is lighter, but because it is 40% less expensive for the students.


- Definitely check the library; we keep copies of all text books on reserve that you can check out for an hour or two in order to read or do homework at no cost at all.


- DO NOT assume that the instructor will cover everything in that book. Frankly, there just isn't the time. Some try, but if you get a C because you didn't do the reading and are depending on the lectures alone don't blame the instructor.


- The prior-version thing can be dangerous. The other class I teach has problems for each chapter, and they changed between versions. If you do all the wrong problems, how am I supposed to grade you? You got the answers wrong because you were doing the wrong problems. (Note that this is a very subject-dependent thing...some subjects haven't changed their homework problems since I was in school.)


- Prior versions can also be an issue in fast-changing fields. A textbook that is 5 years old in Psychology will be missing some big advances in neurobiology and evolutionary psychology that your instructor is going to expect you to learn. The further you get into your program, the more of a problem this is.


- Most instructors change their textbooks every 3 years or so, so if you are taking a course with a new book you'll have a lot of chances to sell it back or list it on half.com and such if your bookstore won't take it back. If the book has been in use for a while, buy used.


- Amazon and other sources often have the online codes for sale seperately, so that you can buy a used book cheaply and then get the code elsewhere. Many of the publisheres do as well.


If an instructor asks you to buy a bundle with an online code and then never uses it, complain to the administration and the department head. You shouldn't have to pay for something you don't use. On the other hand, you deciding that you can pass without doing the online exercises doesn't count as \"not used\"

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scgirl_212
August 28, 2009 12:00 AM
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try abebooks.com They are usually priced lower than even amazon/half.

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Between the Bars
August 28, 2009 2:30 AM
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I still think my idea is by far the best.


I buy all my books used via Amazon and the like. My college posts all the required texts on the website, along with corresponding ISBNs. I can usually get them for a significant discount.


At the end of the semester, I go to the campus bookstore and sell them back and profit.


For instance, I bought my introductory psychology book for $20 on Amazon, and I sold it to the bookstore for $50.

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P=mv
August 28, 2009 10:45 AM
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@MessageinaBottle: I've never had the bookstore buy back for more than that. Craigslist is my solution. I have books for sale from the week of finals to the second week after classes start. I'll either do buyback after that or donate to the local libraries.

I have also discovered that my current college's bookstore gets ISBN's that do not correspond to the book but to the piece of paper shrink-wrapped to the back of the book. So, I went to the store and pulled the ISBN from the back of the used books. Problem solved.

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morlo
August 28, 2009 2:53 AM
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@MessageinaBottle: Your bookstore pays generously. Mine typically paid 10%-20% of the value.

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momma_andrea
August 28, 2009 4:22 AM
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In 2008, the Higher Education Opportunity Act was signed. Textbook costs were addressed in this law. This will do some good things to address the issues raised. A summary of the law from the American Council on Education will give you more details ([www.solutionsforourfuture.org]).


I have taught and my husband is currently a professor. He went to a custom publication because it cost the students about half of what the regular text book did. He also was able to include some extra things like the syllabus and grading rubrics, so students didn't need to print much else. And he plans to use the same book for a few years so that there will be a used market. I think there are many professors who really care about the book prices and some who are even moving away from using them all together. But they do provide a crutch for faculty members who are very lazy. Unfortunately there are too many like that in academe now!

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Techno Viking
August 28, 2009 6:18 AM
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I had a class called Managerial Economics for my University in WI. Anyway, the book was at the bookstore about 190 dollars. I bought it on Half.com part of Ebay for about 40 bucks with shipping included. A softcover International Edition but nevertheless same as a bookstore hardcover one. Word for word same thing. Look online people and you can get a great deal on any book inducing those books that have an online code to them. And buy International versions. They are by far cheaper and many are printed in Canada or Britain. And yes I hate when they also make you buy a loose-leaf binder ready book without a binder. Example, Financial Accounting the latest edition. 130 bucks and loose-leaf with no return if plastic shrink wrap is torn. How sad that this was allowed to happen in the first place. Save money by buying online if you can people. And if you can manage without the book even if it's for one class, then save money and don't buy the book. I was lucky with some of my classes. Managed to do without the books. But now, they make us pay a damn 30 dollar fee for a stupid clicker that you use in class to answer teacher's questions. I am from Europe, but what the hell happened to raising your hand or just replying to the question. Again sad where this is going.

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subtlefrog
August 28, 2009 6:50 AM
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\"Seriously, as sleazy as textbook representatives are - professors are to blame. Professors - or departments - are the final say, no matter how hard the text reps try to get their book used. Professors and departments make that choice to use the dumb bundles, packages, new editions, CDs, online codes, etc.\"

Hang on. With large classes, often the book is standardized across sections, and the book that is chosen is the cheapest or the most commonly used one in that field - this has been the case every place I have been in several subjects for which I have been privy to the selection process.

In addition, at least in bio, most of the time, choosing a book is essentially choosing the lesser of evils - none of the available ones actually do a good enough job. I just helped a friend choose a text for a class he's teaching this fall, and not a single book (of the top 3 in the field, all written by big names) actually did the subject justice in all regards. Mostly, you end up choosing the one you hate the least.

Moreover, the move to new editions often happens when the publisher decides the old one simply won't be available. Why would they make the old one available still?

Bundles, useless online content, etc. - if the students don't want it, get rid of it (though I suspect there will always be a contingent of higher achieving kids who do pursue that material) - but a lot of the other stuff isn't something to walk into class holding against your professor before you meet him / her.

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gully_foyle
August 28, 2009 11:48 AM
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As a similarly independent textbook retailer, I second what he said about the sleaziness of textbook reps. Publishers pretty much openly try to rip us off too.

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winstonthorne
August 28, 2009 12:38 PM
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Lies. I worked in a bookstore for two years. Our markup was at LEAST 40% on everything, including textbooks (which were all orderable through normal distribution), and we were a small independent bookstore (not B&N or Borders). College bookstores are evil and another way to milk an extra few hundred dollars out of the poor students' pockets. Between this and \"origination fees\" on private loans, it's no wonder so many people have so much trouble paying for school.

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gully_foyle
August 29, 2009 12:34 AM
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@winstonthorne: I've never seen floor staff with only two years experience know anything about book pricing.

Still haven't.

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NatalieErin
August 28, 2009 1:41 PM
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@winstonthorne: Hence the OP's statement \"Publishers set the prices, and we mark them up\".

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winstonthorne
August 28, 2009 3:53 PM
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@NatalieErin: She left off \"by enormous and unnecessary margins.\" I hate that school store doublespeak about publishers really being the bad guys.

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robocop is bleeding
August 28, 2009 1:04 PM
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I'm a librarian at a mid-sized university. Our response to the rising cost of textbooks has been to just buy two copies of every book required for every course offered to undergrads.

Sure, it makes things more expensive for us, but we feel it saves our students so much money and hassle in the long run. We keep the books on reserve for in-library use, so a student doesn't have to buy a 50$ book that they'll only use for a few weeks of the course, and better yet, they don't have to lug the damn thing around.

One trend we're noticing more and more is textbooks being split into two volumes. So you could have a 100$ 'Intro to Biology' textbook that has 24 chapters split into two 60$ books, one with chapters 1-12, the other with the rest. Profs will think they're doing their students a favor by only requiring one of the smaller volumes, completely missing the fact that the Bio 101 course that they're teaching that covers Chapters 1-12 leads straight into a Bio 102 course that covers 13-24 and thus requires the second volume.

Toss in the fact that faculty don't seem to consult with each other as to the text that they're using and you could end up with a student buying the first 'slim' volume for the Fall and then being told they have to buy the larger, chapter 1-24 volume for the spring.

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profmonster
August 28, 2009 3:24 PM
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I'm a professor :) And there are lots of us that do factor in the cost of the book (to the students) when choosing a text.


I'm not a big fan of the extra online bits/codes/etc. that are being added to the book. It does seem like a lot of added cost for only a little added value. When I've asked students if they use the online content provided by the textbook publisher, I get mixed responses. Some students clearly think I want to hear them say that they use the online resources, so they say that they do use them. Any students reading: do you find the online resources (practice questions, etc.) helpful?


Last question: clicker technology: useful? or another way to cadge more money from the students?

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bloggerX
August 28, 2009 3:35 PM
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@Trai_Dep: LOL! Seriously though I gotta retake Business Statistics again, the book I bought for this class was to cover Stats I and II, ONE WEEK before the new classes start for both courses my school changes the required text. So now I have to shell out another $170! This is robbery!

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miss_roxxan
August 28, 2009 3:37 PM
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i just spent $127 on an accounting book because it was a \"special edition\" for my school (so hard to find online) and it had an access code. the thing is, it's LOOSE LEAF. i had to buy a binder to put it in so i can even use it. seriously. at least i will be reimbursed by my employer (who is paying for school! woot) but honestly, it's crazy.

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Ben_Q2
August 28, 2009 8:16 PM
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I once had this Teacher if you listen to him at the start of the class he said \"I will be Teaching from\" and the \"tests from the book, get into a S.Group\". What he was saying without saying it. I will teach you what I have learn and test you out of the book. Now if you got into a S. Group, all the answers to the test(s) where pasted down from group to group. Guess who gave out the answers. T25% was all the tests from the book, 25% was a paper, 50% was the last test (not from the book).

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Beagler
August 29, 2009 3:46 AM
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Staples repackages bundles for a couple of bucks... open, see, reseal. No damage done.

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Laura Northrup
August 29, 2009 9:55 PM
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@Trai_Dep: You should see my hamster climbing the walls of his cage, putting his balls on display for all to see. INDECENT! INDECENT!

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Mediocrates
August 30, 2009 11:10 AM
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As a philosophy professor at a college in a relatively impoverished area of the US (which narrows it down quite a bit, I know), I use the least expensive yet useful text I can find (about $9 new) as a supplemental text and then use public domain material (Plato, Aristotle, etc) from the internet as the primary source of information for my courses. Of course, this isn't possible in all disciplines.

In my experience with college bookstores, they don't order old editions because they \"can't guarantee there will be enough copies available\". I think the bookstore manager in the article is being a bit unfair to the professors--I've never had a textbook rep make it 'worth my while' to select a book for a course (even back when I used a more expensive text).

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gully_foyle
August 30, 2009 12:34 PM
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@Mediocrates: Not all reps are equally attentive, and some disciplines get underserved. Especially the ones that make extensive use of public domain material and ordinary tradebooks e.g. philosophy, english. Those disciplines also happen to be ones with very fractured book lists rather than the department mandated materials common to introductory classes in other disciplines. But if you've had minimal contact with textbook reps you should count yourself lucky. Every time I meet one I have to check to make sure I still have my watch and wallet.

I would also say he's being exactly as fair as professors deserve. They are the primary customer of the product and I can count on one hand the number of professors I deal with who I've seen actively advocate for the people bearing the burden of paying for their choices. Most are too irresponsible to even place their book orders in a timely fashion, which I repeatedly remind them is the simplest and easiest way to reduce the cost to their students.

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wolfybrie
August 30, 2009 2:36 PM
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I have almost never found a book cheaper at the school bookstore. There are competitor textbook stores that are always cheaper. Then again, our bookstore is owned by Barnes and Noble. But if I can, I generally search www.gettextbooks.com first. It's the best book search engine ever.

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holyspidoo
August 31, 2009 1:55 PM
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There really should be an MSDN-AA like thing for textbooks. Or a Rent-a-book system for when you dont want to buy the book. x$ for a session + y$ if book has damages.

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